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Tichu inspires our next game

Dominic Crapuchettes
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At North Star Games, the last Friday of every month is reserved for play testing.

February's session was dedicated to a card game I've been working on recently. Although prior testing was good enough to prompt publication discussions, the game took a big leap forward with this play session. People were having such a good time that they kept playing after I went upstairs to put my son to bed. In fact, they kept playing until I had to break up the party for waking up Daniel several times. After much discussion, we have decided that we will try to release it by February 2012!
(Emphasis on try. This is not a release announcement.)

The game is inspired by Tichu. Although I had played Tichu several times at conventions, it wasn't until I got the iPhone app that I grew to love the game. Even so, I have a big grip with it. It's the same gripe I have with most games: People get over-whelmed when I try to teach it to them.

Last December I received Through the Desert, Tichu, and Ubongo from my Secret Santa (thanks Santa!). My parents were over, so it seemed like the perfect time to play Tichu. They were excited to learn the game, but their eyes started glazing over half way through the explanation, so we played Ubongo instead:



We had a lot of fun, but I wanted to teach a portable game that we could take on our frequent outings. So I set out to distill the essence of Tichu into a game with one quarter of the rules. One problem was that my mom didn't know the standard poker hands, so she was already over-whelmed with the types of hands that can be led before we got to the scoring or the special Tichu cards. Another problem was that I had to bypass several game teaching sessions until there were exactly 4 players, since Tichu is a partner game. Some of my design goals were:

1) Card game
2) Easy to learn
3) Considerable depth
4) Playable by 3 - 6 players

The first thing I considered was how the target market for my game would differ from the typical Tichu player. There is no reason to create a game that scratches the same itch as Tichu - Tichu already does that! My goal was to design a strategy game that could be enjoyed by the "typical" North Star Games customer. This is a tricky endeavor, since all of our previous games are party games. Releasing a strategy game is liable to confuse and frustrate someone who is expecting a party game, which is why we've been slow to move in this direction.

I concluded that our typical customer might be familiar with Hearts, Spades, and Gin Rummy, but probably little else. So to create a bridge to the familiar, I would draw upon mechanics similar to those games, but not from mechanics common to only Euro games or poker. Drawing upon elements that are familiar allows a designer to increase the depth of a game without dramatically increasing the amount of time it takes to learn the game. For instance, most gamers are familiar with worker placement, area majority, attack/defense/movement powers, and deck construction, so none of these concepts take long to explain to them. But explain any one of these concepts to my Mom and you're in for a long night!

The first thing I did was reduce the number of possible hands to two different types. Then I figured out a simple scoring structure that created increasing rewards during play. My initial rendition worked fairly well, but the game hit it's stride when I figured out a way to simulate the tension you feel when you are worried that someone might play a "bomb" on a trick that you are expecting to win (a bomb is a hand that can always be played in Tichu, regardless of what was led). The solution is very simple, and I'm happy to say that it works extremely well! This tension of taking risks coupled with an increasing reward structure is the key to the game.



Quick History of the Genre:
Once we started thinking about publication, I decided to do some research on the genre. My fear was that I may have arrived at something similar to another game that already exists. As it turns out, there are a lot of variations on the concept but none of them very similar to our game. Here are some of the games that I looked into:

Tichu
Gang of Four
Big Two
Lexio
Haggis
Tien Len
Zheng Fen
Zheng Shangyou
Daihinmin
Tien Len

The basic concept comes from mixing poker with a trick taking game. Different variations have became popular in Vietnam, China, and Japan (and probably several other Asian countries). I think the earliest versions emphasized playing your cards as soon as possible, by giving players negative points for cards left in their hands. Later version like Tichu added positive points for taking certain tricks.

I'll keep people updated if we decide to publish it for 2012. We'd like to, but we have so many projects on our plate that we might not find the time. Part of the reason that we're excited to publish this game is that it would require very little development work. We're used to publishing games for which it takes 3 people several months to develop questions. This game seems like a cake-walk by comparison. Perhaps we're missing something...
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Subscribe sub options Wed Mar 9, 2011 2:00 pm
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Jonathan Morton
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Sounds great, hope this one makes it relatively quickly!
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 2:43 pm
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Eric Knauer
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Can I preorder now?
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 2:47 pm
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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eknauer wrote:
Can I preorder now?


Uhhh... well, we're not really sure... if... um... we're going to... uh... What I mean to say is...


Of course you can!! Make the check out to me and send it to my home. ninja
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  • Edited Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:03 pm
  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:03 pm
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Chris Long
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Yeah, really. I want the game now! I'm quite excited. Where can I subscribe so I know when it comes out?
 
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:03 pm
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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radynski wrote:
Yeah, really. I want the game now! I'm quite excited. Where can I subscribe so I know when it comes out?


That's a good question. I didn't expect people to be so excited about this, but I guess putting Tichu in the title attracted a lot of attention from people who already love the game. I hope my rendition is not too simple for you guys to appreciate. My fear is that once you've already taken the time to learn Tichu, you'll think our game is a little flat. But maybe not... it's hard to say. Either way, our game will definitely be a great stepping stone for teaching others the concepts.

As for subscribing... I'll try to remember to geekmail everyone who posted something here. Alternatively, you could subscribe to this blog. I will definitely post more about our release schedule, but there will also be a lot of other posts in the mean time.
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:19 pm
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Ben Lott
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It sounds like gaming with your parents is similar to gaming with mine. I'm going to try Tichu with them, but I'm skeptical. Your game sounds more like what I need for gaming with them.
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:25 pm
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Blott wrote:
It sounds like gaming with your parents is similar to gaming with mine. I'm going to try Tichu with them, but I'm skeptical. Your game sounds more like what I need for gaming with them.


You want to test out the written rules for us? It'll be a while before I put it together (we need to finish Crappy Birthday first), but we'll need people to do some blind playtesting of the rules.
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  • Edited Wed Mar 9, 2011 7:48 pm
  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:27 pm
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Rick Baptist
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For some reason I've missed seeing your blog. Subscribed! It's always nice to read your back stories with North Star, Dom.
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:31 pm
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domcrap wrote:
You want to test out the written rules for us? It'll be a while before I put it together (we need to finish Crappy Birthday first), but we'll need people to do some blind playtesting of the rules.

You can always count on me, Dom. Let me know if/when you need my e-mail address again.
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:39 pm
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Robert M
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I love Gang of Four, Xactika, Sticheln, and other trick/ladder games.

I tried to play Tichu, but trying to teach it when I've never played it before didn't go over at all and one of the people I'd play with doesn't like the feeling he is ruining his partners game with his bad play. I got the iPod app, and I have been enjoying it. (maybe I could actually teach it now).

Taking away the partnership, playable 3-6, this sounds great. You need some independent playtesters?
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  • Edited Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:15 pm
  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:39 pm
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rmartinc wrote:
You need some independent playtesters?


We feel pretty happy about the game play at this point. Te only thing we are considering is whether to change the number of cards to deal out for the three player game. But we will need people to blind test the rules sometime in the summer. If you are interested in that, I will contact you once we have taken a stab at the written rules.
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:44 pm
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Being one who is not enchanted by Tichu but does enjoy some card games (Mu is a favorite, though it's way to complicated for 99.999% of all players), I'd be interested in trying it out. However, one of your goals was misguided:
Quote:
4) Playable by 3 - 6 players
How about getting it down to 2 players as a minimum?
 
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 3:55 pm
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domcrap wrote:
rmartinc wrote:
You need some independent playtesters?


We feel pretty happy about the game play at this point. Te only thing we are considering is whether to change the number of cards to deal out for the three player game. But we will need people to blind test the rules sometime in the summer. If you are interested in that, I will contact you once we have taken a stab at the written rules.


I can go over them for understandability. Just so you don't expect me to correct the grammar.
 
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:02 pm
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Randy Cox wrote:
How about getting it down to 2 players as a minimum?


We're trying, we're trying! Right now it does not work as a two player game in the slightest.


I guess I lied about my design goals. The original goal was to make the game playable for 2 - 6 players, but I failed on that one account. soblue
 
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  • Edited Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:31 pm
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rmartinc wrote:
I can go over them for understandability. Just so you don't expect me to correct the grammar.


Yeah, it would be for understandability and nothing else.
 
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 4:13 pm
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More than happy to help with the rules. We are HUGE Tichu fans. This sounds like a great game all on its own. Can't wait.
 
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:08 pm
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George Leach
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Dom don't try and shoehorn it to 2, Haggis fills that gap nicely, and took a long time to get 'right'.

Your description of Climbing games as a cross between Poker and trick-taking seems a little odd to me but I know you're not the first to do it.

It may be of interest to you to bear in mind how The Great Dalmuti and Dilbert work as they are very similar games though don't include the collection of cards after a round of passes.
 
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:12 pm
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Jugular wrote:
Your description of Climbing games as a cross between Poker and trick-taking seems a little odd to me but I know you're not the first to do it.

That my understanding of how the genre started. How would you describe the genre?

Jugular wrote:
It may be of interest to you to bear in mind how The Great Dalmuti and Dilbert work as they are very similar games though don't include the collection of cards after a round of passes.

I played A$$ Hole and El Presidente quite a lot as a drinking game in college (same game as The Great Dalmuti). From what I recall, these games did not capture the element that I enjoy about the genre. We used them as silly drinking games that we coupled with Thumper, Assassin, Thumbs, and other such tomfoolery.
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 5:38 pm
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domcrap wrote:
You want to test out the written rules for us? It'll be a while before I put it together (we need to finish Crappy Birthday first), but we'll need people to do some blind playtesting of the rules.


I'm holding my hand up!
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  • Posted Wed Mar 9, 2011 6:59 pm
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boneroller wrote:
domcrap wrote:
You want to test out the written rules for us? It'll be a while before I put it together (we need to finish Crappy Birthday first), but we'll need people to do some blind playtesting of the rules.


I'm holding my hand up!


Here too!
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  • Posted Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:08 am
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Quote:
You want to test out the written rules for us? It'll be a while before I put it together (we need to finish Crappy Birthday first), but we'll need people to do some blind playtesting of the rules.


I'd also be happy to "playtest" the rules. It has become one of my hobbies. I had the chance a few years ago to proof/vote on your 2nd edition Wits and Wagers questions, so I am already on the "payroll".
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  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:08 pm
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domcrap wrote:
Blott wrote:
It sounds like gaming with your parents is similar to gaming with mine. I'm going to try Tichu with them, but I'm skeptical. Your game sounds more like what I need for gaming with them.


You want to test out the written rules for us? It'll be a while before I put it together (we need to finish Crappy Birthday first), but we'll need people to do some blind playtesting of the rules.


I'd be more than happy to blind test the rules as well.
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  • Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:33 am
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domcrap wrote:

You want to test out the written rules for us? It'll be a while before I put it together (we need to finish Crappy Birthday first), but we'll need people to do some blind playtesting of the rules.


I know your invitation was to Ben, but I would enjoy proof reading the rules. Consider me volunteered.
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  • Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:07 pm
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George Leach
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Dom, if you design Climbing games like you play Dominion I'll give it a playtest and then tell you where you're going wrong
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  • Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:43 pm
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Looks like you're fixing all the problems I have with Tichu. I can't wait to see how it turns out.
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  • Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:51 pm
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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DarrinWilliams wrote:

Looks like you're fixing all the problems I have with Tichu. I can't wait to see how it turns out.


It's not quite as simple as that, because different people like different types of games. In this case, I'm trying to please a different type of game player than the ones who love Tichu. Our game is designed to go over well with a random group of people at a campsite (and their mothers).
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  • Posted Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:16 am
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domcrap wrote:
DarrinWilliams wrote:

Looks like you're fixing all the problems I have with Tichu. I can't wait to see how it turns out.


It's not quite as simple as that, because different people like different types of games. In this case, I'm trying to please a different type of game player than the ones who love Tichu. Our game is designed to go over well with a random group of people at a campsite (and their mothers).


Yes, I didn't mean to imply that Tichu had inherent problems, but the things that keep me from getting it to the table are the things you seem to be changing. Especially the 4 player requirement.

When I have exactly 4 players, one of them is usually my wife, who doesn't much care for any game with poker hands.

 
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  • Posted Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:33 am
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Saweet!! Then the answer is YES!! I am trying to solve your Tichu problems.

Although our game does not use any poker hands, it definitely has a poker feel to it. Part of the game is reading people as you figure out how risky to be with playing your hands. You don't want to waste your good hands unless you are going to win the trick.

Actually, I have not yet played with my wife. She will be a good litmus test, so I'm eager to hear what she thinks.
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  • Posted Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:43 am
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Probably too little too late, but as someone who also enjoys both Tichu and Haggis, while despairing of ever teaching them to certain people in my life, I'd also love to blind-playtest if you still need playtesters. Or buy the eventual product. Or both.
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  • Posted Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:55 pm
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I know I am a little late here, but in case you need any more blind play testers/rule readers I'd be glad to join in...

EDIT: Funny, Ron's post wasn't here when I decided to write mine...
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  • Edited Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:00 pm
  • Posted Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:58 pm
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Thanks for all of the enthusiastic responses. I will definitely contact people from this list to blind test the rules. I expect to start working on the rules in several months.
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  • Posted Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:33 pm
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If you still need people I would be happy to do some testing as well. Hearts is one of my favorites and I really enjoy trying out new variations on trick-taking.
 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 4, 2011 10:11 am
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Stephen Glenn
United States
Virginia Beach
Virginia
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Dominic,

Include me in the list of those who'd love to help.

Stephen
Relatively recent Tichu Whore
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  • Posted Thu May 19, 2011 5:11 am
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Floyd Sherrod
United States
Sharpsburg
Georgia
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Ditto here Dom, happy to help.

Love Tichu, but understand the mother/wife phenomenon...
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  • Posted Thu May 19, 2011 5:23 am
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Clyde Wright
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
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Definitely excited about this...I've gotten down Tichu to non-gamers into some form of art, but I do agree an understanding of Poker is pretty much an essential in order to understand this genre of game. If they don't know Poker, adding all that complexity on top of learning the various hands and what trumps what is pretty difficult.

Any update on the game's progress?
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  • Edited Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:46 pm
  • Posted Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:46 pm
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Dominic Crapuchettes
United States
Bethesda
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It is coming along very well. I have continued to simplify it, so although it was inspired by Tichu, it does not feel the same. People expecting Tichu will probably be dissapointed.

The latest version was a big hit with the kids (9,9,13,13) at the beach house vacation we just returned from. It was their favorite game on of the trip (of course, the fact that I designed it probably helped their enthusiasm).
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  • Posted Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:53 pm
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Russell Howell           (Left for BGG)          
United States
Canoga Park
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Dom,

I am very happy to hear that it will not feel the same. If I want to play something that feels like Tichu, I'll play Tichu. This makes me that much more excited to see what this is going to be. If it will have the enjoyment factor that Tichu has without having Tichu's game play and limitations on players, it will definitely have a place in my game collection. I buy games because they are different, otherwise I would have a collection of different themed Monopolys all around my house. Keep up the great work and great games!
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  • Posted Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:45 pm
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Dean Goodmanson
United States
Port Edwards
Wisconsin
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Saw Tichu at a store and your Ted talk ( http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxPennQuarter-2011-Dominic-...) in the same week and wondered if this game is out. Glad to hear it's coming along, looking forward to it with my family of mostly elementary children.
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  • Posted Fri Nov 4, 2011 2:19 am
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Dominic Crapuchettes
United States
Bethesda
MD
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The game is pretty much designed. We've been testing it and playing it for nearly a year now, and I don't think it will go through any more major changes. But I am so swamped with other projects that we won't be able to release it until February 2013.

In the mean time, perhaps we'll be able to make a few prototypes and get people to test them. I'm just waiting until I have time to write the rules. That way we can also blind test the rules.

Thanks for taking an interest in it!
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  • Posted Fri Nov 4, 2011 4:10 pm
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P. Mihalarias
United States
Richardson
Texas
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I've lurked this thread for a while and with growing anticipation. Any updates on the game's availability?
 
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  • Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:53 pm
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Dominic Crapuchettes
United States
Bethesda
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Testing was put on the back-burner while we worked on Crappy Birthday, Wits & Wagers Party, a deluxe edition of Wits & Wagers Family, and an Wits & Wagers app. But we are wrapping up most of these projects (except the app), so I did some more testing at the Gathering and a few times since then. Last Friday I finally decided upon the card mix, and so we're putting together 5 prototypes for families to test.

The final version of the game is designed for ages 7+ (or perhaps 6+), which means it has to be very simple, and we did not want the had size to be greater than 7 cards. I am very happy with where the game is at right now. But please do not expect Tichu! This game is meant to be closer to Uno than Tichu in regards to simplicity (or perhaps it is better described as being about as complicated as hearts).

Anyhow, our current goal is to release this game in February 2013.
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  • Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:13 pm
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