Gloria Mundi - Rules Rewrite | Gloria Mundi

brian

(ColtsFan76)

United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana

Mourning the end of the Manning era.

Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.

Thanks for the rewrite - it helped me visualize the game much better than the original rules. But after going back and rereading the rules, I see two "errors" on your summary - or I just missed them somewhere.

1) Page 1, "Game Flow Step 4," 2nd Bullet
You indicate that EACH player may purchase a building in turn order under the active player's turn. I do not see where the rules support this. It appears to me only the active player may purchase a building on his turn. If anyone else wants to purchase a building, he must do so when he is the active player.

2) Page 1, "Game Flow Step 5," 4th Bullet
It seems that you are trying to alter the mechanics so that you can more easily account for what is going on, but again, I don't see where you are supported by the rules.

What I understand you to say is that
a) all of the previous paid "counters" are moved off the board, say Pile A
b) going around in turn order, for each of these counters, a production card must be destroyed. For each destroyed production card, the corresponding resource counter is moved to a Pile B.
c) once all productions cards are destroyed that can be destroyed, players may choose, in turn order, a token from Pile B to take behiond their screen.

From what I can tell, the official rules make no distinction between your Pile A and Pile B. So even if no one discarded a corresponding card for Pile A, players can still draw from this pile. Furthermore, it is possible that your Pile B contain no tokens (theoretically nothing is destroyed) yet all grab every last resource from Pile A.

Like I said, I may have overlooked them in the rules but I don't think so. Maybe there was an FAQ out there that made this clear. I am just curious as I ordered the game and I am trying to figure out the rules before it gets here.

Posted Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:37 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

Brian,

Thanks for your comments.

1) You are correct - only the active player can build. I have updated my rule rewrite.
2) In relation to the two different piles, I don't think that I'm altering the mechanics of the game. The point of the two piles is that the destruction process must be completed before the tributes are recovered . I'm guessing that the confusion here is with what happens to any tributes that aren't paid for. The answer is that once all tributes have been paid for, that can be paid for, any remaining counters are moved to the second pile. From there, they are available for tribute recovery.

I have added a comment to Game Flow - step 5 - 5th bullet that,

Once all tribute counters have been “paid for”, or no one has cards available that match the remaining counters,
- any remaining counters are moved to the second pile.
- players, starting with the active player, take turns drawing production counters from the second pile & adding them to their collection behind their screen.

FYI - There have been questions about who can pay the tribute - the active player v/s any of the players. I've looked around & found the following comment from Jay Tummelson (President of Rio Grande Games),

Quote:

The active player chooses to pay or have the Goth walk. If he chooses to pay, he places the tribute on the next space and the Goth stays put. If he chooses for the Goth to walk, he walks and all players are affected in turn order until his "walk" is done. Then the players take the tribute left on the board in turn order.

Source - http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1114642#1114642

I have uploaded a new version of my rule rewrite.
I hope that this makes things clearer.
Thanks for taking the time to look through the rules & to help me correct them & hopefully make them clearer.

Paul

Edited Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:24 pm
Posted Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:13 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

brian

(ColtsFan76)

United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana

Mourning the end of the Manning era.

Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.

Ah, OK. Recombining "pile A" and "pile B" into a single pile makes more sense. I didn't gather that is what you were trying to accomplish as you made mention of the "second pile" again. So it seemed like you were shorting yourself potential tribute.

I like the idea of moving the tokens off so you can track what has or hasn't been discarded. But if you put them all in a single pile, how do you know what the glory represents? Wouldn't it work just as well to leave them on the board until you destroy them and then form a pile? Might be easier to keep track of the glory. Just a thought.

Like I said, this summary really helped me grasp the rules and get a better of idea how it all works.

Posted Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:25 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

Brian,

Thanks for your kind words. It is encouraging that my rule rewrite is helping you with the game.

In relation to the use of glory on the Goth track, Jay Tummelson has commented on it as follows,

Quote:

Sorry it is not clear in the rules. You place the glory token on the Goth track instead of food, peace, or gold. When it is later retrieved (when the Goth moves), it will be available to be taken as a resource.

Source - http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1135517#1135517

Paul

Posted Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:18 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

brian

(ColtsFan76)

United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana

Mourning the end of the Manning era.

Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.

Paul65 wrote:

Brian,

Thanks for your kind words. It is encouraging that my rule rewrite is helping you with the game.

You're welcome. Solid effort should be recognized.

Quote:

In relation to the use of glory on the Goth track, Jay Tummelson has commented on it as follows,

Quote:

Sorry it is not clear in the rules. You place the glory token on the Goth track instead of food, peace, or gold. When it is later retrieved (when the Goth moves), it will be available to be taken as a resource.

Source - http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1135517#1135517

Paul

In case I wasn't making it clear, what I meant was this: Glory can be used to pay tribute as a "wild" for any resource shown on the board. However, when it is time to move the Goth, the specific Glory pieces on the board still represent a specific resources - say a Gold, for example - as opposed to "any token."

So when you go to destroy a production card, you must select a Gold card instead of "any" production card (since it is the symbol on the board that is the overriding factor, not the token). It could be confusing if you have multiple Glory pieces on the board and not remember what each represents when they are all arbitrairly piled together.

But again, this is based on my reading of the rules, my game isn't here yet. So it may be more obvious than I think and not a big deal.

Posted Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:39 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

Brian,

When placing a tribute, a glory counter can function as "wild".
When destroying production cards, the destroyed production card must match the type that the glory counter is replacing.
When recovering the counters, the glory token is treated as a token in its own right.

Paul

Posted Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:54 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

brian

(ColtsFan76)

United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana

Mourning the end of the Manning era.

Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.

Paul65 wrote:

Brian,

When placing a tribute, a glory counter can function as "wild".
When destroying production cards, the destroyed production card must match the type that the glory counter is replacing.
When recovering the counters, the glory token is treated as a token in its own right.

Paul

Right - the bold statement is what I was referencing. If you move all tokens to a pile, it will be difficult to "see" what the Glory token is supposed to represent, since it is no longer next to its icon on the board. That's the only point I was trying to make.

Posted Tue Dec 1, 2009 12:03 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

Brian,

Good point.
I will update the rule rewrite as follows,

Game Flow - step 5 - 4th bullet.

When a tribute isn’t paid,
  o if tributes have been previously paid,
    - the Goth token is moved to the position of the last paid tribute.
  o if tributes have not been previously paid,
    - the Goth token is moved one step forward.
    - players, starting with the active player, pay the required tribute for the space the Goth has moved to.
  o starting with the active player, players take turns discarding one of their production cards for each of the production counters along the Goth track.
    - as each production counter is “paid for”, the counter is set aside into a pile.
    - if glory tokens were used, they must be paid for with production cards of the type that they were substituted for.
    - if a production card has a building card on it, the building card is also discarded.

Thanks for your help in getting this done properly.

Note - the new version of the rule rewrite has bee uploaded.

Paul

Edited Tue Dec 1, 2009 2:18 am
Posted Tue Dec 1, 2009 12:25 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Michael Wohlwend

(Termite)

Germany
Karlsruhe

nice rewrite, only one point strikes me (it's in game flow 5, 4th bullet):

Paul65 wrote:

Brian,

When a tribute isn’t paid,
  o if tributes have been previously paid,
    - the Goth token is moved to the position of the last paid tribute.
  o if tributes have not been previously paid,
    - the Goth token is moved one step forward.

I can't see this in the rules:

Paul65 wrote:

- players, starting with the active player, pay the required tribute for the space the Goth has moved to.

I can only see that you have to discard production cards, but not pay for the empty space *after* the Goth moved to it.

Posted Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:07 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

brian

(ColtsFan76)

United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana

Mourning the end of the Manning era.

Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.

Termite wrote:

Paul65 wrote:

- players, starting with the active player, pay the required tribute for the space the Goth has moved to.

I can only see that you have to discard production cards, but not pay for the empty space *after* the Goth moved to it.

Good point. When I was reading the updates, I assumed this statement meant "discard the production card(s)."

But if it means pay the resource, as "tribute" should indicate, that is not correct. Because if the active player could or would want to pay that, he would have done so and prevented this step from happening.

Posted Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:11 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Michael Wohlwend

(Termite)

Germany
Karlsruhe

ColtsFan76 wrote:

But if it means pay the resource, as "tribute" should indicate, that is not correct. Because if the active player could or would want to pay that, he would have done so and prevented this step from happening.

yes. You can also see this little bug at the end of the example of play, when it's player 6' turn...

Posted Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:22 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

Thanks for taking the time to review my document & for helping me make it better.
I have uploaded a new version of this rule rewrite.

It now reads,

  o if tribute has not been previously paid,
    - the Goth token is moved one step forward.
    - starting with the active player, players take turns discarding one of their production cards for each of the icons on the space the Goth has moved to.
    - the active player’s turn ends.

The example now reads,

  o Each player, starting with the active player, discards a production card matching one of the icons of the space that the Goth has moved to. This continues until a production card for each icon has been discarded.

Posted Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:48 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

brian

(ColtsFan76)

United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana

Mourning the end of the Manning era.

Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.

I think that should do it Paul. Thanks again for this. We have played this 3 times as a 2-player game and really love it. There was absolutely no issue in game play because of your help.

Posted Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:10 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Michael Wohlwend

(Termite)

Germany
Karlsruhe

thanks for the correction. You rules show how simple the game is

Posted Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:19 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

Thanks for your kind comments.
My aim has been to try to understand how to play the game & help others do the same.
Your comments have greatly helped with this.
This is one of the great things about the community we have here on the geek.

Edited Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:51 pm
Posted Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:50 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

Thanks for the tip Brian - very much appreciated.

Posted Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:39 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Daniel Rocchi

(DarkCelt)

Canada
Toronto
Ontario

Thnak you for all your excellent work on the recently, revised, rewritten rules. Your most recent changes on Goth tribute have finally cleared up the only ambiguity I still had with this game.

On the very last page though, under building cards, why does phase 4 come between phase 1 and phase 2? I assume this is an error?

Posted Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:57 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

Daniel,

There is no error with the phases in the example. I'm trying to show the flow of play in relation to buildings,

- a building is added to the Forum (phase 1).
- a building is purchased (phase 4).
- building activation type is determined for the round (phase 2).
- buildings are activated (phase 3).

Hope this clarifies things.
Also, if you find it helpful, please don't forget to give it a thumb.

Paul

Edited Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:59 pm
Posted Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:27 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Brenton Webber

(Elucidus)

United States

Pennsylvania

Good day,

I recently played Gloria Mundi and liked it very much, but was befuddled by some of the wording of the rules. Looking for an FAQ, I ran across the v4 rules rewrite here, which I found useful.

The point I wanted clarified (which is still unanswered by official FAQ) is the "satisfy A to earn B" mechanic.

The rules say "for each other card of the kind shown." We played it that if you had a PEACE: 2-FOOD card on a LEGIO, that you could activate the PEACE : 2-FOOD building and gain 2 FOOD for each LEGIO you had *other* than the LEGIO under the activated building.

The v4 rewrite does not concur with this. What is unclear to me is if one is counting LEGIO's (other than the one underneath) or all other PEACE cards (LEGIO and PEACE building) cards other than itself. The rules are clear that one is supposed to not count something.

Thank you for taking the time to write a clarification. If I hear an official answer to this, I will certainly post here.

Posted Sat Jan 2, 2010 5:09 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

brian

(ColtsFan76)

United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana

Mourning the end of the Manning era.

Welcome baby brother Toby James, 03/24, 8 lb. 15 oz.

The satisfy A to Earn B (or the "colon cards" as I call them) resolve this way:

1) It is an all or nothing card. Which means if you opt to take this, then all of those cards must be used to fulfill the condition. You cannot do partials.

2) It is all other cards except the one you are activating - as you are using that one to activate the building card.

So for example, you have LEGATVS which must be built on a LEGIO production card. You have 2 other LEGIOS in play for a total of three. One of them has an ORATOR on it.

Your options for the turn if you Play a LEGIO (your 4th) would be this:

A) Activate all of the LEGIOS for their Peace counter only and collect 4 Peace tokens.

B) Activate the ORATOR building to spend either a Food, Peace, or Gold to get a Glory (The LEGIO it is built on does not produce since it activated the ORATOR). Then activate the other 3 LEGIOS for 2 Peace tokens.

C) Activate the LEGATVS. This prevents all the other LEGIOS from being activated including the ORATOR for its special ability. Since you have 3 LEGIOS (not including the one you just used up to activate the LEGATVS), you can now collect 3 Glory tokens.

So those are your 3 options in this scenario. a) +4 Peace b) -1 Resource/+1 Glory/+2 Peace or c) +3 Glory

Posted Sat Jan 2, 2010 6:06 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

I have just uploaded a new version of the rule rewrite to clarify the "Satisfy A to Earn B" cards.

Satisfy A to Earn B (A : B)
* There are two different types of these cards - those with card types on the left of the ":" & those with a Goth on the left of the ":".

   o Card Types
     - if activated, all production cards of the type shown on the left of the ":", excluding the one on which the activated building resides, generate the resource shown on the right of the ":".
     - this is in place of any other building actions or resource production.

   o Goth
     - if activated, the player moves his Roman token 2 spaces towards Africa if the Goth is currently standing on a space that requires a production token of the type shown on the left of the ":" as part of its tribute.

Hope this helps to clarify things.

Posted Mon Jan 4, 2010 1:18 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

Thanks for the tip johnhe0414.
Much appreciated.
Hope you find the rule rewrite helpful.
Paul

Posted Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:34 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

George Husted

(Coldwarrior1984)

United States

Connecticut

Great Job!!!

Beautifully done. Thank you.

I was reading your v5 and noticed some very minor errors.

Suggested changes:

Game Overview
In Gloria Mundi, each player takes the role of a Roman statesman, who is attempting to escape from Rome to Africa in ~~the wake~~ advance of an approaching VisiGgoth army. Players acquire resources & use them to either build buildings that will help them in their flight or offer them in tribute to the approaching VisiGgoth army to delay its march. The first player to that gets to Carthage in Africa or ~~to be~~ that is the closest to it when the game ends, wins.

Final paragraph:

Game Overview
In Gloria Mundi, each player takes the role of a Roman statesman, who is attempting to escape from Rome to Africa in the wake advance of an approaching Visigoth army. Players acquire resources & use them to either build buildings that will help them in their flight or offer them in tribute to the approaching Visigoth army to delay its march. The first player that gets to Carthage in Africa or that is the closest to it when the game ends, wins.

Rationale:

The word "wake" is a nautical term describing the trail of disturbed water behind a moving ship.

The game specifies which Goth tribe was invading. The Visigoths (Western Germanic "forest people") invaded Italy and attacked Rome in 410 A.D. The Ostrogoths led by Theodoric did not conquer Italy until 493.

Buildings is the plural for more than one building.

The original phrasing was a sentence fragment, not a complete sentence.

Posted Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:14 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

Thanks for the tip tallboy.
Hope you find the rewrite helpful.

Posted Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:05 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Paul Raggett

(Paul65)

Australia
Sydney
NSW

I don't know why I didn't comment on Coldwarrior1984 notes.
They helped make the aid clearer.
Thanks Coldwarrior1984.

Posted Fri Feb 4, 2011 1:02 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

M. B.

(Triad1)

Canada
Oshawa
Ontario

Solid effort. I shall review this.

Posted Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:26 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

M. B.

(Triad1)

Canada
Oshawa
Ontario

Yup. Solid good stuff! Excellent job with rewrite.

Posted Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:34 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote