photocurio's map re-draw, part 1 | 1830: Railways & Robber Barons

Canada
London
Ontario

The trains look great, but I think it's spelled Electro-Motive.

Posted Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:35 am
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

Another error. There is a small track stub drawn from the C&A to New York. It should not be there. The small track stub headed out of NY into the C&A is quite correct and should be there.

Posted Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:04 am
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

clearclaw wrote:

Another error. There is a small track stub drawn from the C&A to New York. It should not be there. The small track stub headed out of NY into the C&A is quite correct and should be there.

Fixed.

Posted Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:30 pm
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Steve Undy

(roseundy)

United States
Fort Collins
Colorado

You might have some more usable room on the market board if you ran the revenue racetrack around the perimeter of the board.

Great job on the redesign, BTW!

Posted Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:53 pm
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

Not a big thing, but I'd kinda like arrows leading from the SR to each of the OR spots, and then from each OR spot to the next lower OR spot and thence to the SR.

Posted Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:12 pm
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

clearclaw wrote:

Not a big thing, but I'd kinda like arrows leading from the SR to each of the OR spots, and then from each OR spot to the next lower OR spot and thence to the SR.

I thought about that but I feel like it adds almost as much confusion as it eliminates.

The correct placement of arrows would be different depending on if you are in the yellow, green or brown phase. so I thought I'd keep it uncluttered.

Posted Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:28 pm
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

photocurio wrote:

clearclaw wrote:

Not a big thing, but I'd kinda like arrows leading from the SR to each of the OR spots, and then from each OR spot to the next lower OR spot and thence to the SR.

I thought about that but I feel like it adds almost as much confusion as it eliminates. The correct placement of arrows would be different depending on if you are in the yellow, green or brown phase. so I thought I'd keep it uncluttered.

Arrows or rounded corners are more helpful on the stock-market table- eg rounded corners, along the outside lower-right corners of the stock table. (Eg, to show that stocks should move up, if they can't move right any further.)

Posted Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:40 pm
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

jimb wrote:

Arrows or rounded corners are more helpful on the stock-market table- eg rounded corners, along the outside lower-right corners of the stock table. (Eg, to show that stocks should move up, if they can't move right any further.)

Yes, agreed, those arrows are helpful. I'll add them.

Posted Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:50 pm
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

photocurio wrote:

The correct placement of arrows would be different depending on if you are in the yellow, green or brown phase. so I thought I'd keep it uncluttered.

Look at this Stock Market:

That's what I mean. ORs count down to the next SR.

Posted Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:29 am
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

jimb wrote:

Arrows or rounded corners are more helpful on the stock-market table- eg rounded corners, along the outside lower-right corners of the stock table. (Eg, to show that stocks should move up, if they can't move right any further.)

Down arrows on the left, up arrows on the right. Both are needed.

Ohh, and the dividend-track could really use some texture to more easily find numbers. Either faint chequer-boarding or texture on the 5th values (stronger on the 10s) to allow easy visual counting by 5s.

Lastly, the lables in the Round Markers are not centred.

Edited Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:33 am
Posted Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:30 am
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

I uploaded a new trains file, with Electro-Motive spelled correctly. And new map files which have less-orange red areas, and the stub of track connecting NJ to NYC is removed.

clearclaw wrote:

jimb wrote:

Arrows or rounded corners are more helpful on the stock-market table- eg rounded corners, along the outside lower-right corners of the stock table. (Eg, to show that stocks should move up, if they can't move right any further.)

Down arrows on the left, up arrows on the right. Both are needed.

Ohh, and the dividend-track could really use some texture to more easily find numbers. Either faint chequer-boarding or texture on the 5th values (stronger on the 10s) to allow easy visual counting by 5s.

Lastly, the lables in the Round Markers are not centred.

I am adding arrows to the stock chart, but have not yet uploaded a new version. I am experimenting with the best layout.

I agree with JC's suggestion to texture the earnings track - I like the method of marking every fifth spot. And Steve U's suggestion of running the earnings track around the perimeter is worth trying, so I am messing with that.

I am not sure new share files are needed, but I might make some new charters with phase schedules on them, like Deep Thought puts on theirs. I think this is the single most important info-graphic of the game. Then, I'll probably just go ahead and make combined share-and-charter files, in the same style as Galt's PnP files for 18AL. Then corporate colors will match, since they will all be printed on the same sheet. Also, I like the small share cards, because they take up less space.

Edited Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:39 pm
Posted Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:36 pm
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

photocurio wrote:

I agree with JC's suggestion to texture the earnings track - I like the method of marking every fifth spot.

How about a slightly different texture for the 5 and 10 spots?

Quote:

I'm not sure new share files are needed, but I might make some new charters with phase schedules on them, like Deep Thought puts on theirs.

Charters would be good, and I like DTG's phase/train/etc table on their charters.

Quote:

Then, I'll probably just go ahead and make combined share-and-charter files, in the same style as Galt's PnP files for 18AL. Then corporate colors will match, since they will all be printed on the same sheet. Also, I like the small share cards, because they take up less space.

With the minor exception of the B&O and NYC being a little too visually similar, I like Drew Dane's redraw of the 1830 shares. I've printed them all here on 120lb paper with 5mil lamination, and the results are effectively indistinguishable from DTG's shares as well as being very usable. The one change I made was to scale them down slightly, I think to 80%(?) They're still highly visible and easily handled, but they're also slightly smaller than the spaces on his IPO chart, which makes handling easier. He's also provided token art, which needs a little scaling again to fit on 0.5" furniture plugs, but works more than well enough.

Tip: Print the tokens on lable paper. Drop the paper onto a self-adhesive lamination sheet (I use Duck brand). Then cut out the tokens with scissors, peel the backing off and stick to the plugs. laborious but effective. Par tokens can be put similarly onto picture matte, except skipping the scissors bit and cutting only after they're on the matte. I didn't bother and just made extra wood-plug tokens for each company.

Posted Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:49 pm
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

These comments have been helpful, and I have incorporated several changes into this graphic. In the end I liked the original layout better than putting the income track on the perimeter.

I also liked JC's point about coloring the round marker backwards, i.e. brown, green and yellow in that order (although it is unintuitive and took a while to penetrate my brain). And I decided to just label all ORs "operating round", because you can't have OR3, then OR2, then OR1. That just doesn't make sense. And I still like it better without arrows (less is more).

This image is in my personal gallery. I'll upload a pdf soon. If no-one finds any typos.

You can also see the version with the income track on the perimeter. I just think it looks messier:

Edited Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:31 am
Posted Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:26 am
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

I have a question about the par-value grid.

The original 1830 board has slots for about 5 tokens at $67 par, a few less for higher par values, up to about 3 slots for $100 par.

Is there a real limit on the number of companies that can par at $100, in 1830?

I interpreted the original grid to mean, 'yes'. If so, it would be nice to maintain/reflect it in this table somehow.

The countdown OR track, and the arrows on the main stock table, are good improvements.

Posted Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:22 am
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

I suggest ordering the par-chart so that the low values are at the bottom-left instead of bottom-right, and so that they get larger to the right and up. (The bottom image is worse -- it gets larger by going down)

I'd also suggest using the earth-tones from the lower image instead of the blues for the racetrack. There's very little blue anywhere else in the game, making that rather stand out.

Posted Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:46 am
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

jimb wrote:

Is there a real limit on the number of companies that can par at $100, in 1830?

No. In practice 3-4 companies par at $67 and everything else pars at $90 or $100.

Posted Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:48 am
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

The newly posted PDF of the stock market is again missing a typeface. The scrollwork at the corners of the Bank Pool render as Ns.

Posted Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:39 pm
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

fixed..

Posted Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:24 pm
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

I like this more muted color-treatment on the eps chart, it quiets it down.

Imho, though, it still takes up a lot of space, and I wish it was just a smaller logarithmic track, instead.

I know JC is a fan of the detailed ladder, and I don't have a lot of experience with it. Still, it seems like overkill.

Posted Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:52 pm
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Juho Snellman

(jsnell)

Switzerland
Zurich

Looked at the redrawn map properly for the first time today. It's just
lovely, but I do have one nit to pick. The value of Cleveland isn't
printed inside the hex, but in a neighboring hex that'll get covered
by a tile in almost every game.

This means that the players need to remember that it's a $30 city.
No big deal for people who've played a lot of 1830, but inconvenient
if newbies are involved. I can see that moving it the "Cleveland $30"
text into the right hex would be tricky, but perhaps the text could
cross hexsides, such that at least the $30 part is in F6 and the rest
in G5?

Posted Fri Dec 4, 2009 3:36 am
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

jsnell wrote:

The value of Cleveland isn't
printed inside the hex, but in a neighboring hex that'll get covered
by a tile in almost every game.

Good point. I squeezed Cleveland and the value into the hex. New file is uploaded.

Edited Fri Dec 4, 2009 6:42 pm
Posted Fri Dec 4, 2009 5:40 pm
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Costas

Canada
London
Ontario

Ummm... Peter, I think the cost is $30.

Posted Fri Dec 4, 2009 6:48 pm
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Juho Snellman

(jsnell)

Switzerland
Zurich

Wow, that was quick. Thanks!

Posted Sat Dec 5, 2009 3:00 am
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

rockusultimus wrote:

Ummm... Peter, I think the cost is $30.

fixed.. again

Posted Sat Dec 5, 2009 4:55 am
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Ingo Griebsch

(d0gb0t)

Germany
Bochum
North Rhine-Westphalia

Hi,

awesome work! Especially the map looks great! Will the tiles be available also?

Posted Sat Dec 5, 2009 9:30 am
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

d0gb0t wrote:

awesome work! Especially the map looks great! Will the tiles be available also?

Not very soon. I am working on an 18XX tile template, but its not ready. Its not trivial.

Posted Sat Dec 5, 2009 4:35 pm
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Sergey Nikolenko

(snikolenko)

Russian Federation
St. Petersburg

Thank you for the wonderful job!
Could you please upload the whole map as a single pdf? Or would it be too large? I'd like to try and print it on A2 paper as a whole...
Thanks again!

Posted Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:43 pm
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

snikolenko wrote:

Thank you for the wonderful job!
Could you please upload the whole map as a single pdf? Or would it be too large? I'd like to try and print it on A2 paper as a whole...
Thanks again!

The map was drawn in photoshop, not illustrator. The result is that the files are way larger than typical illustrator pdfs. A combined map is over the file size limit for BGG.

Posted Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:22 pm
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Kyle Nauman

(knauman)

United States
Ames
Iowa

Could you email me a none cut copy of the map?

Posted Tue Jan 5, 2010 6:48 pm
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Karim Chakroun

(carthaginian)

France
Besançon

Isn't there an error in the stock market chart? 62 looks white on the game board, and the 50 in the same column is yellow...

Posted Wed Jan 6, 2010 5:50 pm
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

carthaginian wrote:

Isn't there an error in the stock market chart? 62 looks white on the game board, and the 50 in the same column is yellow...

I'm not sure what you are seeing.. are you looking at the earnings per share tracker by chance?

Posted Wed Jan 6, 2010 6:26 pm
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

you are right. I've uploaded a new pdf file.

Posted Wed Jan 6, 2010 7:49 pm
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Costas

Canada
London
Ontario

Also, the 67 box on the top row (A) is slightly off color - not quite white.

Posted Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:24 pm
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Costas

Canada
London
Ontario

Fixed.
Thanks Peter!

Posted Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:48 pm
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Joe Wasserman

(Mymil)

United States
Portland
Oregon

I'd love to have a go at printing this up, but I'm apparently lacking almost all of the typefaces you used. The only text that displays is on the stock and income sheet. Which typefaces (and which styles) do I need to view the rest of the text? I know you mentioned Caslon italic somewhere, do you happen to know whether it's Adobe or ITC Caslon (I'm guessing Adobe)?

Posted Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:14 pm
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

ouch. I confess to not really understanding the pdf format. maybe use the jpeg map?

Posted Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:29 am
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Joe Wasserman

(Mymil)

United States
Portland
Oregon

Yeah, PDFs are weird beasts. Did you do this in Photoshop? If so, if you flatten the layers before creating the PDF, I think it should work out okay. I'd be happy to use the JPEG, but am hesitant to go through the work to make up something that I know has errors that you've fixed.

Posted Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:13 am
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

Joe, the font is Adobe Caslon Pro Italic. I think this came with Adobe Creative Suite. Rosewood Standard is also used, for the "logo".

You could try to substitute any Caslon italic font, or for that matter any traditional italic serif text face, like Baskerville (nice) or even Times (ugly).

Edited Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:02 pm
Posted Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:01 pm
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Joe Wasserman

(Mymil)

United States
Portland
Oregon

Thank you, Peter. I'll see what I can do about installing those fonts!

Posted Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:48 pm
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Kevin Maroney

(womzilla)

United States
Yonkers
New York

This is staggeringly lovely. The only comments I would make are:

1. I would print the on-board city values in a distinctive color to make them more visible across the length of the board.

2. The city due south of Toledo and due west of Pittsburgh should be Cincinnati, not Columbus. Yes, Columbus is closer to the intersection of a north-south line through Toledo and an east-west line through Pittsburgh, but at the map scale, Cincinnati fits there, too. In the 19th century, Cincinnati was a *major* transit hub because of the Ohio River, and Columbus simply wasn't, even with the help of the Ohio and Eire Canal. It wasn't until the mid-20th c. that Columbus became a major city.

Once could also argue that it should be Dayton, but I think that was even more of a backwater in the 19th century. Hard to say. But at the scale of 1830, Columbus would definitely be a black-dot town, not an open city.

3. The city south-east of Washington is Norfolk (or, more precisely, Hampton Roads/Virginia Beach/Norfolk), a major sea port. Richmond is south-west of Washington and is more properly the off-board gateway between DC and the Deep South.

(The open city between "Kingston" and Montreal can only be Ottawa, as you have labeled it, but my understanding is that Ottawa didn't become a major city until well into the 20th.)

Edited Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:33 pm
Posted Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:59 pm
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peter mumford

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

womzilla wrote:

This is staggeringly lovely. The only comments I would make are:

1. I would print the on-board city values in a distinctive color to make them more visible across the length of the board.

wow, thanks for the compliment.

If I ever open the source file up again I'll consider the idea of a different color for location names. I guess I didn't want the city names to dominate, since they have little importance in play, except for aiding table talk.

As for how I named the cities, I used this page as a reference:
Blackwater Station: 1830 CITY LIST.
The three persons contributing to the list don't agree on all cities of course, so I just made a judgement call on several locations.

Edited Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:27 am
Posted Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:26 am
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peter mumford