Carthaginian's 1800 redesign with 3 player expansion | 1800

Canada
Victoria
British Columbia

"Stock dollar maybe dollar; run dollar always dollar." (B. Beard)

I've been wanting to get a hold of this for ages. I'm extremely pleased that the designer is finally allowing someone to release materials. Seeing an 18xx game out of print and locked down against self printing is like losing a fine classical composer!

Posted Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:48 pm
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Justin Rebelo

Canada
Victoria
British Columbia

"Stock dollar maybe dollar; run dollar always dollar." (B. Beard)

Thanks for getting these up, dude. It looks excellent. I want to print the 2p and 3p parts as well.

Looking at the dimensions of at least one of the files(I think the charters), it looks like the images are larger than 8.5x11" us letter size. I recall that the printing was a bit off with the 1889 redesign I printed, if possible, can you supply images that will print at the correct dimensions for us or do you know if these should work oK?

Posted Sat Jul 3, 2010 11:03 pm
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(garygarison)

Eugene
Oregon

Beautiful, as always. Thank you kindly.

Posted Sun Jul 4, 2010 12:05 am
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Karim Chakroun

France
Besançon

Thanks for the tips and thumbs!

And big thanks to Antonio Leal who accepted to have my files published on BGG!

The jpegs are 210*280mm (about 8,25"x11"), so at 100% of their size they should fit both A4 and US Letter (except the maps that are bigger and should ideally be printed on poster size)

Posted Sun Jul 4, 2010 4:57 pm
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Karim Chakroun

France
Besançon

I uploaded the 1.2 version of the 1800 archive, with opaque stops on the tiles.

Posted Mon Jul 5, 2010 8:18 am
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Michael Theiss

United States
College Station
Texas

You might want to take all the extra color out on the parts that are going to be cut off to save on ink.

Posted Tue Jul 6, 2010 5:41 pm
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

This is great- thanks so much for making it available, and working on the 3p variant too.

I have one suggestion, for the 3p game- labelling the front of all the corresponding certificates & tiles "3-player only" looks untidy, to me.

Instead- I would prefer to use your backing sheet (for the track tiles) for both tiles and certificates, and use a different backing sheet for the 3p components. (Ie, 3p components would be labelled on the backside, not the front.)

This idea is inspired by JC, who does this for his track tile sheets. (For example, his 1830 tiles all have a backing sheet that says '1830', while the 1830 Coalfields tiles all have a backing sheet that says '1830 Coalfields'. It's easy to sort them before/after the game- but from the front, the tiles all look normal, without any extra markings.)

Edited Tue Jul 6, 2010 7:31 pm
Posted Tue Jul 6, 2010 7:28 pm
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Michael Theiss

United States
College Station
Texas

That would work well, having the back sheet tell you 2 or 3 player.

Posted Tue Jul 6, 2010 10:25 pm
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Ron K

(RaDiKal)

United States
Marcellus
New York

Nicely done

Posted Wed Jul 7, 2010 3:58 am
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

I do wonder how Carthaginian is going to handle things like tiles with multiple-phase colours (eg #119 and #200a), as well as track gauges (narrow, wide, standard, ferry, alpine, metric, viaducts etc).

Posted Wed Jul 7, 2010 5:55 am
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(garygarison)

Eugene
Oregon

If past is any indication, beautifully.

Posted Wed Jul 7, 2010 6:34 am
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

garygarison wrote:

If past is any indication, beautifully.

My aesthetics lean more to DTG's tiles as the ne plus ultra.

I'm about half-done with assembling the art for DTG tiles for 1800, much as I did for 1830, but sadly, using his old style ala 18xx.net rather than his newer and better art (which isn't available online (yet)).

Posted Wed Jul 7, 2010 6:48 am
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(garygarison)

Eugene
Oregon

With 18xx being pretty much a public domain game system, the lack of high resolution tile generator app (tile numbers and quantity go in, printable full sheet images come out) is a little surprising.

Posted Wed Jul 7, 2010 7:11 am
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

garygarison wrote:

With 18xx being pretty much a public domain game system...

Far from it. Francis Tresham has never abdicated his ownership and license rights to the 18xx system. This is why most 18xx games have purchased a license to the 18xx system from Francis.

Quote:

...the lack of high resolution tile generator app (tile numbers and quantity go in, printable full sheet images come out) is a little surprising.

Without quibbling licenses, actually there are two: Marco Rocci's original tile dictionary and John Tamplin's derived system. John has offered his system to me and I'm still considering setting it up here. The primary dissuasion is that the system requirements are large and the system setup time non-trivial.

Also note that tile number allocations are neither unambiguous or well defined.

Posted Wed Jul 7, 2010 7:47 am
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

clearclaw wrote:

My aesthetics lean more to DTG's tiles as the ne plus ultra.

'Aesthetics' and 'DTG' don't even belong in the same sentence: the DTG kits are purely functional.

Quite ugly, rather simplistic, way too much visual noise with the revenue tracks and game aids all over, very basic and flimsy lamination, marginal boards, etc.

They are not the "ne plus ultra"- by any reasonable aesthetic or design standard- they're simply basic and functional.

I'm happy with the games I received from DTG. But, they don't stand as an aesthetic visual/production design standard, here- they're ugly, the visual layout is a disaster, and,the components are very bare-bones/cheap/basic. (When compared with any mainline production games of similar pricing, the DTG components fall completely flat- no euro would make it out of the gate, at half the cost, looking like these. The games do feel very bare-bones ~~like shit~~.)

addendum-

Since component issues directly affect play, a production's 'touch and feel' is aesthetic. But: to prevent slippage and support the hinge, players must secure the weightless/foamboard DTG gameboards with weights; the small tokens aren't color-coded, and easily spill around- especially, all over the earnings chart; the laminated cards/tiles feel- well, totally plastic. Now, of course: DTG games don't enjoy economies of scale in production- they're fairly priced, when compared with the costs of doing one-off, pnp, and small-production games; and, they're good/well-tested games.

But- the visual/layout design is simply nonexistent. (It's a just a paste-up of all the 18xx game's displays, scattered around a map, with an earnings chart sprinkled all over that!)

The coarse/scattered utilitarianism of traditional 18xx kits & designs just don't seem to compare, in an aesthetic and functional sense, with skilled designs like carthaginian's.

Edited Thu Jul 8, 2010 10:32 pm
Posted Wed Jul 7, 2010 7:24 pm
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

jimb wrote:

clearclaw wrote:

My aesthetics lean more to DTG's tiles as the ne plus ultra.

'Aesthetics' and 'DTG' don't even belong in the same sentence: the DTG kits are purely functional.

Functional is an aesthetic. They are also considerably more than purely functional.

Quote:

Quite ugly, rather simplistic, way too much visual noise with the revenue tracks and game aids all over, very basic and flimsy lamination, marginal boards, etc.

I find them attractive, even charming. The rest of your commentary describes production/material choices rather than art direction.

Yes, they're basic. I like, want and am willing to pay a premium for such basic approaches to game componentry. I'd prefer it if more/most games took such a basic approach to their presentation. I'd prefer it if many/most of the euro-games I have/play had similarly direct presentations. I find the (satin) lamination DTG uses better than adequate and preferable to the (glossy) lamination I use. The caveat is that his boards are no longer laminated due to the lamination material no longer being available (and the new material having a very high reject rate -- I have one of the boards using the marginal material and it is indeed flawed). I do not find his production choices or game materials to be flimsy.

I agree in part on his art choices for his game maps. The information presentation could be better handled, though I've seen few do much better (and that includes Karim Chakroun's, Peter Mumford's, Helmut Ohley's, Chris Lawson's, Wolfram Janich's, Mark Frazeir's and my choices) in map/board art. My comments above are specifically directed to DTG's track tiles, which I find superb and amazing.

Posted Wed Jul 7, 2010 7:48 pm
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Justin Rebelo

Canada
Victoria
British Columbia

"Stock dollar maybe dollar; run dollar always dollar." (B. Beard)

Probably a debate better suited for some place other than Carthaginian's file posting.

Posted Wed Jul 7, 2010 8:28 pm
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Michael Theiss

United States
College Station
Texas

I see you have never come across my track tiles, stocks and corporation boards.

Posted Thu Jul 8, 2010 12:04 am
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Michael Theiss

United States
College Station
Texas

jrebelo wrote:

Probably a debate better suited for some place other than Carthaginian's file posting.

So true.
Carthagin's Map

Stocks

I like real company logos batter and bright white. Maybe it is just me or the amout of yellow my printer uses.

Posted Thu Jul 8, 2010 12:07 am
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peter mumford

(photocurio)

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

This is all very much appreciated! As a player who only likes the shorter 18xx titles, I have been eager to try this. And with such classy design! I am eager to print this up.

Edited Thu Jul 8, 2010 4:17 pm
Posted Thu Jul 8, 2010 4:15 pm
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

jrebelo wrote:

Probably a debate better suited for some place other than Carthaginian's file posting.

Well- I understand this concern, and I added an addendum to my original comment.

Nonetheless: to me, there's been only two complete 18xx designs, that show a real sense of aesthetics and visual layout/design- carthiginian's (here, and elsewhere), and koryo's. [The Orgler/Ohley designs are a distant 2nd... and nothing else really ranks, visually. Other classic titles show great production values- 1853, 1861, 1835, 1829/Mainline, SoH- but, don't fundamentally suggest a cleaner game design template. Also, some of the hobbyist maps posted here for 1830/etc have very clean designs- but aren't complete game designs.]

Many gamers differ about all this- eg prefering the basic utilitarianism of Mayfair/DTG's productions, to these 'colorful' 'garish' 'naive', etc new designs.

But, to me, the traditional 18xx game design are simply outdated, difficult to digest visually, and ugly. The 18xx design space- visual game layout, including aesthetics- appears to have been compeletely stagnant, until recently. (Though productions like 1853 remind us, it can get a lot worse.)

Carthaginian's designs are fundamentally interesting, in contrast- pointing toward a substantially more modern, clean, and functional visual-design for the 18xx, in general.

Edited Thu Jul 8, 2010 9:50 pm
Posted Thu Jul 8, 2010 9:41 pm
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

jrebelo wrote:

Looking at the dimensions of at least one of the files(I think the charters), it looks like the images are larger than 8.5x11" us letter size. I recall that the printing was a bit off with the 1889 redesign I printed, if possible, can you supply images that will print at the correct dimensions for us or do you know if these should work oK?

Here's some notes from my first printing of these files (at "100% scale" throughout- no scaling):

1. Charters & shares - these will fit on US-letter (8.5x11"), but only with borderless printing.

2. Map & chart - the mapboard prints on Super B, 13"x19. [I'll glue the map/stock-chart board to a chipboard mat with wraparound- then slice that in half, hinging the fold with bookbinders tape. Rather than placing a backing cloth over that, I'm going to try to then glue the 3p map on the underside, for a 2-sided 1800 board (2p on one side, 3p board on the other).]

3. Tiles - us-letter/normal. (The tiles essentially fill the map hexes- sometimes, designers make tracktiles slightly smaller than maphexes, to allow wiggle room- but, these don't appear to have much of that, if any. (?) Anyway: the tile sheets crop just fine on US-letter, without borderless-printing- only the charters and shares seem to really need the extra margin.) These appear to be 3-cut tilesheets, like koryo's- very quick, if you're careful about confining and sequencing your cuts.

Another layout comment: on the map/chart gameboard, it would be nice if the stock-chart was above the map, instead of below it.

Edited Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:10 pm
Posted Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:15 pm
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Justin Rebelo

Canada
Victoria
British Columbia

"Stock dollar maybe dollar; run dollar always dollar." (B. Beard)

I have been waiting to hear some feedback before attempting my own printing. I suspected that some of the pages were not quite correctly sized for 8.5x11 and it looks like I was right, so thanks for posting your findings, Jim!

Posted Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:24 pm
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Adverb

United States
Framingham
Massachusetts

Thanks so much for this. Beautiful work.

First PnP game, first 18xx. I think (hope) this is just the game I've been looking for to get me into the series!

Posted Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:28 am
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Adverb

United States
Framingham
Massachusetts

jimb wrote:

2. Map & chart - the mapboard prints on Super B, 13"x19. [I'll glue the map/stock-chart board to a chipboard mat with wraparound- then slice that in half, hinging the fold with bookbinders tape. Rather than placing a backing cloth over that, I'm going to try to then glue the 3p map on the underside, for a 2-sided 1800 board (2p on one side, 3p board on the other).]

A little help for the uninitiated?

(a) Is Super B a paper size (like A4)? Something I could get at my local copy shop?

And (b) Is 13"x19" the smallest correct size for the map? Or could I eke out a version on 11"x17"?

Thanks, trying to keep my costs down.

Posted Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:54 pm
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

Adverb wrote:

Is Super B a paper size (like A4)? Something I could get at my local copy shop?

Yes.

Adverb wrote:

Is 13"x19" the smallest correct size for the map? Or could I eke out a version on 11"x17"?

It does appear that you need super-b to print the full map to scale.

A map printed in A3 paper (11.7x16.5) could work, it looks like it would clip the background significantly, but not actually cut into the map or stock chart.

(I wouldn't use A3- unless you're printing this at home, and your home printer simply can't print super-b. If that's your situation- the easiest way to answer a lot of these questions is to try some quick/draft/disposable printouts, on cheap paper, before deciding on your final/archive print settings. Then, switch to good paper & print-settings for your final printouts. A little scaling with the tiles and map pages could help downsize the kit, slightly- but that would be more work.)

Edited Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:44 pm
Posted Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:42 pm
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Adverb

United States
Framingham
Massachusetts

Thanks. I'll have to ask about the Super B paper at my Staples. The person I spoke with proposed printing the map on their large-scale inkjet printer, but it was on glossy paper (which I wasn't keen on), and at $8 a square foot, the price for the two maps would add up, fast.

If I convert the jpeg to a pdf, it looks like I can print the two halves on 11"x17", with some overlap. I don't know how that would look with the 3-player-map-as-backing-cloth idea that you proposed, though. Unless I used your A3 printout suggestion. That might work for the backing, since I won't need the background?

Also, since I have your ear, I want to thank you for your suggestion from elsewhere on BGG of using Sharpie oil-based paint pens to color the wood tokens. It took zero time, and worked like a charm, producing beautiful color while preserving the wood grain. Brilliant! Thanks.

Posted Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:48 pm
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

I print super-b at home w/ a $300 large-format epson printer, but I think the typical approach with staples is to print onto regular paper, mounted, with lamination. (They use a heat-triggered adhesive/lamination procedure which glues and laminates the various surfaces, simultaneously. I had a brief call with them about this once- this is simply their default mount, eg from a typical job submission, via their website. Still- reportedly, it may take addtl trial-and-error with your local store, to get them to fill the order properly.)

I did glue the 3-player-map to the back of the mounted 2-player map, as planned- it came out nicely. If you're heading in the same direction, it's actually easier to print the 3p (backside) map: the front needs to be printed oversize, so you can wrap it around the mat, during 'mounting'; the backside is printed/cut to a smaller frame, slightly smaller than the mat dimension, with a minimal outside border.

Incidentally, by my measurements- the map was about 15-3/4"x11-3/4"; allowing for a 1/4" margin, I used a 16"x12" mat board. (This has a 20" diagonal, which should set your register for trimming the top map.) I cut the flipside map just slighly smaller- it was [barely] inset, on the back, with an 1/8" margin (eg, approx 15-7/8"x11-7/8"); once the front map was mounted and hinged properly, I cut the underside map in half, and glued each half in place.

Edited Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:06 pm
Posted Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:58 pm
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Adverb

United States
Framingham
Massachusetts

Thanks very much for sharing all this info. PnP is all new to me, and I feel like I'm blindly groping my way through the process. Yes, there's a wealth of information here on BGG, but every tutorial is different, so there's no clear best way forward (if there even is a best way).

I had a sample of the 2p charters and bonds laminated, but neither I nor my wife liked the feel -- too slick, and the laminate made the small bonds/stocks/trains feel too stiff. I'll probably just hit all the components with a coat or two of Krylon Crystal Clear before cutting.

Just to be clear in my mind: both maps are cut in half, then mounted on the chipboard (or mat board, if that's better), carefully aligned? I was under the impression that the backing cloth was a single piece that went over the hinge, but perhaps that's only true for actual backing cloth, not for a second map (because creasing the map at the bend will eventually ruin the ink/paper).

Whenever I get this finished, I'll be sure to post photos in the PnP thread. Thanks for all your help!

Posted Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:12 pm
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

Adverb wrote:

I had a sample of the 2p charters and bonds laminated, but neither I nor my wife liked the feel -- too slick, and the laminate made the small bonds/stocks/trains feel too stiff. I'll probably just hit all the components with a coat or two of Krylon Crystal Clear before cutting.

It's personal taste/preference- but, I completely agree.

I can't stand the plastic touch/feel/look of plain laminated components- el cheapo. Krylon spray is better. (I use either modpodge, or watco oil-finish, instead- it leaves the paper well protected, and preserves a natural grain and feel.)

Adverb wrote:

Just to be clear in my mind: both maps are cut in half, then mounted on the chipboard (or mat board, if that's better), carefully aligned? I was under the impression that the backing cloth was a single piece that went over the hinge, but perhaps that's only true for actual backing cloth, not for a second map (because creasing the map at the bend will eventually ruin the ink/paper).

Almost.

- Download koryo's 18AL kit (here on bgg), and look at the top-map/mount directions; essentially, you can copy them, for this kit (topside). You'll cut the top board after mounting it. (Typically, these mounts glue a large map to a mat-board, with wraparound; then, slice it carefully in half, and fix the hinge w/ bookbinders tape.)

- For a simple bottom backing 'cloth', it's typical not to cut that. (It makes the back look clean, and, protects the board on the table.)

- In this particular 2-sided application, though: if you don't cut the backside-map, you'll end up with an inside hinge/gutter where the backside map folds (as you suspected). That's workable, but I wanted to avoid it- so, I carefully cut the 2nd map in half 1st, to get a smoother inside map-board fold/edge. (This borrows from double-hinged board techniques- for 4-fold large boards- the diy forum has some info/pictures on that, too.)

Edited Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:16 pm
Posted Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:10 pm
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

jimb wrote:

Adverb wrote:

I had a sample of the 2p charters and bonds laminated, but neither I nor my wife liked the feel -- too slick, and the laminate made the small bonds/stocks/trains feel too stiff.

It's personal taste/preference- but, I completely agree.

I can't stand the plastic touch/feel/look of plain laminated components- el cheapo.

Just to round out, I prefer laminated materials. I like and use the pretty-much-standard 5mil lamination from Staples. My only complaint with it is that it is glossy. I particular like the crisp stiffness it provides to the materials and the resulting ease of handling. The tiles, shares, charters etc snap flat and a charter full of trains and poker chips can be easily handed across the table as a unit. I find DTG's 5mil satin lamination superior because it isn't glossy and the slight texturing of the surface adds just the right amount of friction for shares, trains etc for easy handling. The only one I'm on the fence over is DICE's somewhat glittery and highly textured lamination as used on (current) copies of 18C2C. The texture there is odd and in some ways makes the material hard to handle and in others ways easier. A mixed bag there for DICE's lamination.

In comparison I do not like the results of Krylon spray, other sealants, modge-podge, varnish etc. It does have a more organic appearance and is usually not glossy, but it is also softer and floppier, providing less crisp tactiles and some ease-of-use reductions.

Posted Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:58 pm
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Adverb

United States
Framingham
Massachusetts

clearclaw wrote:

Just to round out, I prefer laminated materials. I like and use the pretty-much-standard 5mil lamination from Staples. My only complaint with it is that it is glossy. I particular like the crisp stiffness it provides to the materials and the resulting ease of handling. The tiles, shares, charters etc snap flat and a charter full of trains and poker chips can be easily handed across the table as a unit. I find DTG's 5mil satin lamination superior because it isn't glossy and the slight texturing of the surface adds just the right amount of friction for shares, trains etc for easy handling. The only one I'm on the fence over is DICE's somewhat glittery and highly textured lamination as used on (current) copies of 18C2C. The texture there is odd and in some ways makes the material hard to handle and in others ways easier. A mixed bag there for DICE's lamination.

In comparison I do not like the results of Krylon spray, other sealants, modge-podge, varnish etc. It does have a more organic appearance and is usually not glossy, but it is also softer and floppier, providing less crisp tactiles and some ease-of-use reductions.

I also used Staples for my test print, and based on other threads I asked specifically for the 5mil lamination. While it seemed fine for the charters, the smallish shares were too stiff and sharp-edged from the laminate -- I'm looking for something more akin to a playing card in feel. The ability to transfer an entire company and its assets in one gesture is a great feature, but not something I'm likely to encounter at this point (or with this title?). Plus, the high gloss was a big turn-off, as it created unacceptable glare on the table.

I wasn't thrilled by the Krylon, either (it seemed almost gritty), but that may have been inconsistent results caused by poor technique. Ultimately, I just want to provide some small protection against general wear-and-tear and possible spillage while retaining a flat/satin appearance/feel. For all I know, the game may never even make it off the ground in my house (although I hope that's not the case).

All that being said, I've been grateful for the enthusiasm of the 18xx community for both making and playing these games. I'm very much looking forward to taking 1800 (and maybe some other titles) for a spin.

Posted Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:35 pm
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

Adverb wrote:

I also used Staples for my test print, and based on other threads I asked specifically for the 5mil lamination. While it seemed fine for the charters, the smallish shares were too stiff and sharp-edged from the laminate -- I'm looking for something more akin to a playing card in feel.

Why do you want it to feel like a playing card? They aren't held int the hand, they aren't fanned, they don't to conform to the curve of a player's grip, etc. Instead they're simply displayed on the table for all to see. Effectively they're tiles, just (commonly) displayed in a stack or small fan. They aren't handled or held except to move among the IPO chart, player's displays and the open market -- which isn't so often.

I recommend using a 5mm corner rounder (the Aidox one is recommended) on the corners of the shares, trains, charters etc. That will remove the sharpness from the cut corners (and is what I use).

Quote:

Plus, the high gloss was a big turn-off, as it created unacceptable glare on the table.

I agree that gloss is less than ideal. Stain and other cost-premium laminations are available, especially if you use your own equipment.

Quote:

Ultimately, I just want to provide some small protection against general wear-and-tear and possible spillage while retaining a flat/satin appearance/feel.

Then I would not bother. Print on 110#-120# stuck, cut out and leave just like that. If they get damaged etc, they're easy and cheap enough to remake and replace. This is exactly the way I make my prototypes here.

Quote:

For all I know, the game may never even make it off the ground in my house (although I hope that's not the case).

Then I absolutely wouldn't bother with any mounting or lamination. Get the all the components printed at Staples, cut them out as needed, and play them just like that. The only thing you'll need to spend more than mininimal effort on is the tokens, and coloured wood bits will do fine there.

Caveat to all this: I don't think much of 1800 as a game.

Posted Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:00 pm
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Adverb

United States
Framingham
Massachusetts

jimb wrote:

Krylon spray is better. (I use either modpodge, or watco oil-finish, instead- it leaves the paper well protected, and preserves a natural grain and feel.)

This is the second time I've read about wood finish for cards. Is this a spray, or do you paint/rag it on? I'm curious.

Thanks for the four-fold board tip -- I'll have to check the DIY forum for a visual tutorial. For the record, my printed maps are both already two pieces because (a) I have access to a laser printer that can handle 11"x17", so I can split print the 1800 map, and (b) I don't want to pay the 16 bucks per map at Staples since I'm trying to do this on the cheap. I'll just have to cut carefully. On your suggestion I'll mount on mat board rather than the medium chipboard I was considering.

Posted Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:03 pm
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Adverb

United States
Framingham
Massachusetts

clearclaw wrote:

Why do you want it to feel like a playing card? They aren't held int the hand, they aren't fanned, they don't to conform to the curve of a player's grip, etc. Instead they're simply displayed on the table for all to see. Effectively they're tiles, just (commonly) displayed in a stack or small fan. They aren't handled or held except to move among the IPO chart, player's displays and the open market -- which isn't so often.

This is a very good point, worth considering. I might use a thicker cardstock (edit: to make them more like tiles per your description).

Quote:

Then I absolutely wouldn't bother with any mounting or lamination. Get the all the components printed at Staples, cut them out as needed, and play them just like that. The only thing you'll need to spend more than mininimal effort on is the tokens, and coloured wood bits will do fine there.

I'm enjoying the task of constructing all the parts from scratch. I don't have much experience with this sort of homebrew crafting, and for now, that's as much fun for me as actually playing the game might be. It's a novel diversion.

Quote:

Caveat to all this: I don't think much of 1800 as a game.

The title's appeal to me is that it's freely available, has a relatively short playtime (compared with other 18xx games), and is suited for two players. I've read it described as "more of a toy than a game," but I think it will be a good (free) introduction to the 18xx genre, and if it flies I can recruit other players and invest in meatier titles. Baby steps...

Edited Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:22 pm
Posted Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:19 pm
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

Adverb wrote:

This is the second time I've read about wood finish for cards. Is this a spray, or do you paint/rag it on? I'm curious.

I use a brush. A soft rag would work fine, too.

If you use Krylon spray, watch for humidity- experiment a little with spraying under different conditions, and you should be able to get a non-tacky result.

[I found modpodge & wood-varnish much superior in all ways, tho- protecting the surface, maintaining grain, a nice feel, etc. I always mount the tiles on a [thinner] mat, too, so they have just a little thickness & stiffness. I print the stock/trains/etc on thick 110lb cardstock from staples (double-sided, with the backing 1800 image).]

Adverb wrote:

On your suggestion I'll mount on mat board rather than the medium chipboard I was considering.

I may have misled you- I did use chipboard for the main board mat, ~2 ply. (Paper Source sells some acid-free chipboard.)

Posted Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:13 pm
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Ingo Griebsch

(d0gb0t)

Germany
Bochum
North Rhine-Westphalia

Hi,

one question regarding the jpg's contained in the zip: The archive contains the tiles 01, 02, 03 and 05. So, is number 04 missing?

Posted Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:04 pm
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Ron K

(RaDiKal)

United States
Marcellus
New York

d0gb0t wrote:

Hi,

one question regarding the jpg's contained in the zip: The archive contains the tiles 01, 02, 03 and 05. So, is number 04 missing?

Within the 1800_v1.2.zip file is 1800_tiles-01.jpg which has the two #4 tiles.

-Ron

Edited Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:20 pm
Posted Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:20 pm
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Adverb

United States
Framingham
Massachusetts

I don't think there's supposed to be a "tiles-04" file -- it might have just been a naming error. According to the tile manifest (RaDiKal's Tile Inventory Chart, also downloadable, thanks!), all the required tiles (plus one extra) seem to be included on the four jpeg files carthaginian provided.

Posted Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:40 pm
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Ingo Griebsch

(d0gb0t)

Germany
Bochum
North Rhine-Westphalia

Hi Ron and Inside,

thanks for clarification!

Posted Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:44 pm
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peter mumford

(photocurio)

United States
Somerville
Massachusetts

ceci n'est pas une pipe

Carthaginian, how about a graphic for the boxtop and sides? I'm just now getting to printing this and it would be great to have a box to match the insides. I love your locomotive drawings, BTW.

Posted Fri Oct 1, 2010 2:42 am
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Karim Chakroun

France
Besançon

The tile n°70 was wrong, I uploaded the file with the fixed tile.

Posted Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:28 pm
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Karim Chakroun

France
Besançon

photocurio wrote:

Carthaginian, how about a graphic for the boxtop and sides? I'm just now getting to printing this and it would be great to have a box to match the insides. I love your locomotive drawings, BTW.

I've yet to find nice pictures for it, but I'm thinking about it

Posted Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:29 pm
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Jack Neal

(Raiderjakk)

United States
Madison
Ohio

jimb wrote:

... discussion on boards...

Call me odd, but I end up taking 8 x 10 regions of everything, printing it out, and then throwing plexi-glass over it to get around the whole binding it thing. It's not a board, but its playable. Cheaper as well...

Posted Sun Jan 2, 2011 4:17 am
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Joshua Brumley

(SweeperAZ)

United States
Sierra Vista
Arizona

Sweet! I've been looking for an 18xx gateway game and with 18EZ out of print, this seems to be the one.

Posted Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:20 am
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the track tiles formerly known as

(jimb)

United States
Berkeley
California

Raiderjakk wrote:

jimb wrote:

... discussion on boards...

Call me odd, but I end up taking 8 x 10 regions of everything, printing it out, and then throwing plexi-glass over it to get around the whole binding it thing. It's not a board, but its playable. Cheaper as well...

I agree; only a professionally mounted board (or DIY equiv) seems superior to using a simple plexiglass/etc cover over paper.

The Ohley/Orgler games all come with foldout maps; we happily play all of those with a plexiglass cover- well organized, the map stays clean, and the tiles have good friction on the cover. I much prefer this to a foamcore-mounted board.

Edited Wed Feb 2, 2011 3:41 pm
Posted Wed Feb 2, 2011 3:37 pm
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J C Lawrence

United States
Campbell
California

I don't bother with perspex on Double-O's 1824 and 1844, or Janich's 18Rhl (two panel laminated paper). I use perspex on Double-O's 1844 simply because the map is large enough that retaining alignment is difficult (I only have 4 good sized map weights). If 1844's map were mounted on foamcore I'd happily not use perspex as my 4 map weights would be more than enough.

For small maps it is a toss up between DTG's foamcore/pouchboard and Wolfram Janich's laminated paper here. The caveat is that I slightly prefer Double-O's art (but wish it had racetracks). For larger maps (1830-size and above, or multi-panel ala 1841 etc), the DTG-style foamcore/pouchboard wins all the way.

Posted Wed Feb 2, 2011 11:13 pm
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Chris Johnson

(fnord23)

United States
Azusa
California

One of Alabama 3's finest songs, especially the versions on the single this image is from...

Sweet Pretty M*th*rf*ck*ng Country Acid House Music - All night long!

So, I just printed and cut this set of files, and going over the rules (and looking at some of the other images), it appears that Cheyenne is supposed to have a space for a station marker (which is missing in this set of files), Is that correct?

Also, there seems to be an extra tile (44) that isn't on any of the other manifests, as well as an extra tile 15 in the 3-player materials. Should those tiles be present/available or not?

Finally (and this is obviously a minor nit), there is no priority deal card.

Edited Tue Oct 4, 2011 11:51 am
Posted Tue Oct 4, 2011 11:18 am
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Karim Chakroun

France
Besançon

fnord23 wrote:

So, I just printed and cut this set of files, and going over the rules (and looking at some of the other images), it appears that Cheyenne is supposed to have a space for a station marker (which is missing in this set of files), Is that correct?

Also, there seems to be an extra tile (44) that isn't on any of the other manifests, as well as an extra tile 15 in the 3-player materials. Should those tiles be present/available or not?

Finally (and this is obviously a minor nit), there is no priority deal card.

Wow, nobody ever noticed the Cheyenne issue. I'll upload updated maps as soon as possible. As for the tiles issues, you are right, you can safely remove one of the #15 tiles and the #44 tile.

We usually use a random wood marker as a priority deal, so I never add one to my hobby designs, and never will.

Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 8:41 pm
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Adam Badura

(adambadura)

Poland
Wrocław

carthaginian wrote:

Wow, nobody ever noticed the Cheyenne issue. I'll upload updated maps as soon as possible. As for the tiles issues, you are right, you can safely remove one of the #15 tiles and the #44 tile.

We usually use a random wood marker as a priority deal, so I never add one to my hobby designs, and never will.

Great! After I already paid for having them done... ;P

Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 9:10 pm
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Justin Rebelo