The Hotness
Games|People|Company
Princes of the Dragon Throne
Total War
Mage Knight: Board Game
Infiltration
Winter Tales
Eclipse
Empires of the Void
The Lord of the Rings: Nazgul
Dominion
Lords of Waterdeep
Doctor Who: The Card Game
Ground Floor
Mice and Mystics
Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)
Virgin Queen
A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition)
Android: Netrunner
Twilight Struggle
King of Tokyo
Glory to Rome
The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game
Dominion: Dark Ages
Agricola
Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small
Hegemonic
Snowdonia
Conquest Tactics
Munchkin
7 Wonders
Pirate Dice: Voyage on the Rolling Seas
7 Wonders: Cities
Arkham Horror
Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
7 Wonders: Catan Island
Village
1989: Dawn of Freedom
Among the Stars
Race for the Galaxy
The Castles of Burgundy
Libertalia
Dominant Species
War of the Ring
Last Night on Earth: Timber Peak
Ora et Labora
King of Tokyo: Heidelbärger Brockenbär Promo Character
Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game
Space Pirates
City of Horror
Kingdom Builder
Goa
File Info Subscribe sub options | File Rolls
Board Game:
Title:
Language:
English
Uploaded By:
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
License: © All rights reserved
Tags:
Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Recommendations:
Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
Files
Jul 28, 2011
The_Sword_and_the_Stars_suggested_changes.doc (39 KB) (Log in or Register to download.)
A collection of items suggested by both the denizens of boardgamegeek.com and myself that have been posted on the forums. The suggested changes are intended to alleviate some of the current problems with the game, and to make it a more enjoyable experience overall.

The 28-Jul-2011 version includes several updates, including some terminology fixes, official errata (that replaced some of the suggested changes in the previous version), clarifications from Jeffrey Bass, some additional minor errata, and notes on why these suggestions were made.
Downloads:65
Post Comment
Jeffery Bass
United States
San Carlos
California
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Your compilation of suggested changes is useful. Thanks for assembling and posting it.

Your presentation that Treaties and Trade Agreements are separate things is correct except for the part that implies that you lose the benefits of a Trade Agreement when you create a Treaty. In fact, all of the benefits of a Trade Agreement (i.e. Rebellion modifiers, primarily) apply and are assumed if you have a Treaty.

The Trade/Treaty circumstance in Sword and the Stars is a direct rewrite of the same mechanism in Empires of the Middle Ages. The "Trade Agreement" in Swords is called "Diplomatic Ties" in Empires, while Treaties in Swords are called "Claims" in Empires. In Empires, a prerequisite to a Claim is the creation of a Diplomatic Tie, which is accomplished via the Diplomacy Endeavor (i.e. Operation), after which a Diplomatic Tie marker is placed. When a Claim is awarded, (i.e. a Treaty) a separate Claim marker is placed in the area under question, while still retaining the Diplomatic Tie marker. The Claim does not negate the Tie but is an addition to it.

I think the leaner, corner-cutting economy of the Swords production simply employed the use of two sides of the same counter to do the same thing, Trade Agreement becomes Treaty by flipping a counter instead of adding a new one, but the assumption is that all of the benefits and circumstances of the Trade Agreement are still in effect, just like all the benefits of Diplomatic Ties are in effect when a Claim is made in Empires.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Edited Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:59 am
  • Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:45 am
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Regarding treaties and trade agreements, I guess I was still confused even after reading one of your replies to an earlier post.

I need to update the document anyway, because there was some official errata regarding the Draka and Harvest I had missed before I published this document.

How does this sound for the "Clarifications" section:
---

There is some confusion regarding Treaties and Trade agreements.

Trade agreements can affect Rebellion (20.5), help you form treaties (19.0) and provide RP’s (if you play with the optional rules below). Treaties provide victory points (25.4), and may require a Special Session (7.2, 19.0). Trade agreements do not require a Special Session.

A Treaty confers all the benefits of a Trade Agreement, but not vice-versa. A Trade Agreement is a prerequisite to a Treaty. Think of a Treaty as an upgraded Trade Agreement. If you have a Trade Agreement with a system and later establish a Treaty with that system, simply flip the counter over.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:38 am
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Jeffery Bass
United States
San Carlos
California
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Your modifications sound good. Sorry if an earlier comment of mine caused more confusion than clarity.

I would also point out that there is no barrier to attempting to establish Trade Connections (or even Treaties) on Systems owned by other players. Such Trade Connections allow you to interfere with another player's attempts to tax their own Systems. So, trade not only provides benefits to *you*, but can be passive aggressive tools to keep *other* players in check, or at least slow them down a little. They are an investment for retarding the progress of other players as much as for advancing your own agenda. Also, establishing trade connections can result in Diplomatic Conquests.

It would have been better if the rules were a little clearer on the equivalence of Trade Connections and Treaties. It may be that it was originally intended to have separate counters for both, like Empires. There are strange allusions to non-existent counters in the rules, like the reference to the "Revolution Tech Level Marker" in [9.13] Revolt. So, there were obviously some last minute changes to the game counters before the game went to press.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:40 am
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, I understood that you could form Trade Agreements and Treaties with systems owned by other players, but maybe I should be explicit about that in the document, too.

The thing that strikes me as odd is that you can attack, and be attacked from, systems with which you have a Trade Agreement or Treaty and it doesn't appear to affect anything. Right?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:41 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Jeffery Bass
United States
San Carlos
California
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Correct. A successful Conflict operation does nothing to change the status of any Trade Connections or Treaties belonging to any other players on the conquered System.

The only way Trade Connections (or Treaties) can be lost in the game is through the use of the "Revolt" event chit or use of the "Trade Disruption" holding chit.

The other way to lose a Trade Connection or Treaty which is implied, but not explicit, in the rules is if the system is depopulated by Draka genocide. I would think that if a System becomes devoid of intelligent life, there would no longer be any Trade or Treaties there.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:37 am
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Such Trade Connections allow you to interfere with another player's attempts to tax their own Systems.


How so? I see that it helps the active player taxing the system by providing a -2 on the die roll, but I don't see a rule that suggests that it's more difficult if any other player(s) have a Trade Agreement with the system.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:52 am
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SkyGazer wrote:
There are strange allusions to non-existent counters in the rules, like the reference to the "Revolution Tech Level Marker" in [9.13] Revolt. So, there were obviously some last minute changes to the game counters before the game went to press.

I think it's just referring to the "Revolt Tech Level" marker, which is just the back of the "Revolt" event chit. I'll make a note of it, though. Are there any others you can think of?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:58 am
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
djberg96 wrote:
Quote:
Such Trade Connections allow you to interfere with another player's attempts to tax their own Systems.


How so? I see that it helps the active player taxing the system by providing a -2 on the die roll, but I don't see a rule that suggests that it's more difficult if any other player(s) have a Trade Agreement with the system.

Oh, found it. 14.41-2. It's not mentioned on the Rebellion modifier chart (20.5), however.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:05 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Daniel Berger
United States
Littleton
Colorado
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Uploaded a new version today (28-Jul-2011).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:16 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Jeffery Bass
United States
San Carlos
California
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hmmmm...you're right. I forgot that the Revolt chit has text on the reverse side. An Unrest marker works just as well.

Of course, along the same lines they should have printed a nice StarGate icon on the back of the Greer's Breakthru chit instead of having to sully Greer's Port with a run-of-the-mill StarGate marker, but oh well.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:46 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.