Game: B-17: Queen of the Skies

Thread: Re: Something I have been working for years...

jasta6 — 2008-11-19T22:44:16+00:00

Dave,

I have played six games with your system and it worked very well. I just have not had time to write up a report. I will try to play somemore over the Christmas holiday and write up a review.

Sorry,
Jim

Thread: Re: Something I have been working for years...

CameramanDavid — 2008-11-18T01:39:10+00:00

Has anyone that received my play kit played any missions?? I need FEEDBACK folks!!

David Rosner

Thread: 314 Squadron, Mission #43, Leipzig - Lancaster "Knotty Nottingham"

jasta6 — 2008-11-15T13:30:13+00:00

Mission Description:
Leipzig, Germany – Aircraft
17th/18th February 1944

Mission 43;

After takeoff we joined up with the bomber stream headed for fortress Europe for the second time in a little over a fortnight. Our assigned slot was to get in behind FO. Howard Wharton, who also joined the 314th at the same time as myself, and follow him to the target when we would take up bombing position. Things were calm in the pitch black of the North Sea and eerily quiet. Then, as we crossed the Netherlands coast we were caught of guard by a lone Me110 who put at least nine 20mm exploding rounds into the old girl from six o’clock low. The rounds started in the port wing between the engines and walked across our bird to the starboard side of “Knotty” before crossing back to the tail. Right away number two engines oil gage started to drop. Then a round went right through the bomb bay and we all waited for the horrific explosion. God must have been with us as there wasn’t a quick death. Continuing his shot rounds kept crawling along our left wing. Other than removing large hunks of wing, the remainder of the attack did little critical damage.

Jerry didn’t stopped there, continued to chew up our wings with a second six o’clock low attach. His next assault ravaged our number four engine. Which immediately belched smoke that covered nearly the whole left wing leading us to believe that both engines on that side were damaged. Noticing that the pressure on number four had dropped to zero I at once feathered the prop shutting down the engine. We didn’t want it to windmill and slow us up. The Me110 pilot directed a concentrated burst into the tail, killing Airmen James E. Addle instantly and destroyed the starboard ammo box feeder.

One good piece of news was that the number two oil pressure had stabilized to a point were I could keep the engine running. However at reduce power. But the German was not done. He swung around to make a three o’clock level attack. As the enemy fighter lined up his finishing shot airman Terry McTee unloaded on the offending fighter. In an instant the twin-engine beast was no more than smoldering scrap fluttering to earth. This was McTee’s first confirmed kill.

With our number four engine knocked out and number two engine questionable I decided to turn around and come home. We jettisoned our bombs in the North Sea and worked our way back to base. Landing without further episodes our ground crew chief said he would have “Knotty Nottingham” back in the air for our next mission. We are indebted to the dedicated men working the repair line.

Respectfully submitted by,
Flt. Officer Chuck Berman (Pilot)
314th Squadron R.A.F. – SN528 “Knotty Nottingham”

Thread: Re: 314 Squadron, Mission #43, Leipzig - Lancaster Lovely Louise

Joshuaaaaaa — 2008-11-13T18:41:50+00:00

Man, I miss playing this game...after reading this I want to pull out my copy. Nice write-up!

Thread: 314 Squadron, Mission #43, Leipzig - Lancaster Lovely Louise

magnuzk — 2008-11-13T16:10:45+00:00

No 314 Squadron (http://314sqdn.home.comcast.net/~314sqdn/) is flying its 43rd mission. This one is to Leipzig, deep into Germany. Lancaster "Lovely Louise" is on its second mission.

http://hem.passagen.se/magnuzk/314Sqd/314CombatCrewRecord.ht...

The night was all black and quiet until we were 25 miles North east of Essen. Tail Gunner Hartford spotted a Me 110 trying to sneak up on us from 6 low. With an accurate burst of fire, he damaged it seriously. We saw a fighter go down with an engine on fire and Corp Hartford claims it as KIA.

We reached Leipzig and a Do 217 was spotted at 7 level! Corp Hartford was really alert on this mission. He called “Bandit! 7 level!“”and fired and hit that bandit really hard too! We saw this one too go down on fire.

Then a single engined fighter attacked from 12 level. He must have seen our bomber against the fires and lights below. He disappeared as quickly as he had come.

We left Leipzig behind us and another Do 217 attacked 30 miles west of the city. Corporal Hartford spotted him at 6 low. I went into evasive action and his tracers went by Lovely Louise without doing any harm. I was flying evasive action to try to shake him off, but he fired suddenly from 7 level. The left wing was hit and Corp Hartford sent a hail of bullets in his direction. He missed and the Dornier fired again. His aim was off and he disappeared.

80 miles later a Ju 88 was spotted at 6 low. Corporal Hartford fired. This time he hit the Ju 88 and damaged it. It came around for a second attack. Must have had us on the radar. He was spotted at 5 level. Hartford called “Corkscrew starboard!“ The manoeuvre worked, but only after he had fired once again. He wounded both the mid upper gunner and tail gunner.

There was no more action on this mission.

Signed,
Howard Wharton

Howard Wharton, Pilot – Lovely Louise

Thread: Re: Med Variant

magnuzk — 2008-11-05T06:57:48+00:00

Chuck you can get it here http://www.nktelco.net/bdmonnin/boardgamer.html for $16 I think and also find files you need here: http://www.thewargamer.com/B17/index.html

Hope that helps you.

Magnus.

Thread: Med Variant

Komodo — 2008-11-05T04:15:41+00:00

Is the Med Variant available in english anywhere? Thanks!

Chuck

Thread: Re: The Sparrow Soars Seven Sorties

jasta6 — 2008-10-25T11:37:26+00:00

irreg77 wrote:
...Guess I'll be ebaying again but to win a copy this time

Brad, I would like to expand on a few of the earlier responses.

Ryan has a superb suggestion, B-29 Superfortress is a great game and plays a lot like B-17 but with more detail. This detail does not detract from game play as it is well balanced and after a few plays the game will flow easily.

Bob's suggestion is just as good as Ryan's if you really want to get back into B-17: Queen of the Skies. You can play B-17 anywhere you have access to a computer with Internet. It plays just like the board game only it is played on the computer. The great thing about Vassal is you CAN use any variant you wish to add. It is not a canned program, it is exactly like the board game.

You can find it here:
http://www.vassalengine.org/community/index.php?option=com_v...

Good luck
Jim P

Thread: Re: The Sparrow Soars Seven Sorties

jasta6 — 2008-10-25T11:11:13+00:00

GeneSteeler wrote:
And so ends the tale of the Sparrow...

Great series of games. I love that you let the girls switch on and off playing the Bomber or GAF. Sounds like the whole family has a good time.

Good luck on your next B-17...

Jim

Thread: Re: The Sparrow Soars Seven Sorties

Riobard — 2008-10-23T16:27:04+00:00

Great session report, thanks. This is one of my favorite solo games in my free time. I use Vassal and keep statistics. I have yet to get a plane past 17 missions and after 70 plays no one has yet retired. Great to see your daughters enjoyed it.

Thread: Re: The Sparrow Soars Seven Sorties

keethrax — 2008-10-23T01:24:30+00:00

irreg77 wrote:
I bought B17 when it first came out. Played the game constantly looking to get to 25 missions. My "Mission Belle" was the most successful B17, clocking up 13 missions before being shot down. You do get attached to your crew and aircraft.
In later years intrest waned on this game, I would set up but find no spark to keep me going. I sold B17 last year on ebay and wish I had kept it. I'm now wanting to play more solo games that are fast playing and fun, which B17 is. Guess I'll be ebaying again but to win a copy this time

If you want to avoid the ebay route, there's B-29 Superfortress.

Thread: Re: The Sparrow Soars Seven Sorties

irreg77 — 2008-10-23T00:43:30+00:00

I bought B17 when it first came out. Played the game constantly looking to get to 25 missions. My "Mission Belle" was the most successful B17, clocking up 13 missions before being shot down. You do get attached to your crew and aircraft.
In later years intrest waned on this game, I would set up but find no spark to keep me going. I sold B17 last year on ebay and wish I had kept it. I'm now wanting to play more solo games that are fast playing and fun, which B17 is. Guess I'll be ebaying again but to win a copy this time

Thread: The Sparrow Soars Seven Sorties

GeneSteeler — 2008-10-22T23:40:03+00:00

The Sparrow Soars Seven Sorties

After the Demise of the Bluebird, my girls christened the Sparrow. My older two girls, Willow and Wren, took turns playing the bomber while the other played the fighters/flak. It was humourous to watch them rolling for the fighters, alternating between wanting to succeed in hitting the bomber, then apologetically rolling for damage hoping they wouldn’t destroy it (because they wanted to fly the next mission!)

The tale of her seven sorties is below

Sortie One Target: Amiens Rail Yard.

Flight was uneventful until we reached the target. It was then that A German ace in a Me109 coming in from 12:00 low hit our port wing. Engine #2 was damaged and “ranaway” but the prop was feathered so we were able to keep flying but the engine was out.

As we steadied the bird for the bombing run we encountered medium flak which damaged our port wing root, but the run was still 40% on target!

The flight home was uneventful. Success!

Sortie Two Target: Amiens Rail Yard

I just watched a documentary on War Trains and the Amiens bombing. Those tracks can be repaired over a manner of days, so constant bombing is required to successfully restrict supply. So we were back to Amiens.

This flight was very quick. Most of our attackers were fought off by our Good Fighter Cover. Once 3 FW190s got through and Wren was nervous, but they all missed and broke off.

Flak was light and the bombing was 30% on target.

Flight home uneventful. Success!

The girls loved switching sides, so soon we were in the air again.

Sortie Three Target: St Omer Airfield

A very short flight being the closest to England. The light flak missed us and our bombing was 30% on target.

After the bomb run a FW190 did zero in on us, but it only managed superficial damage. Success!

Sortie Four Target: Cherbourg Airfield

We crossed the Channel without incident and bumped into some FW190s flying CAP. An ace came in from 10:30 but well placed MG fire forced him to Break Off his attack after an ineffective burst.

A green pilot in a FW190 also approached from 1:30 high. It was hit by both our Top Turret and Starboard Cheek guns, but the credit goes to our Starboard Waist Gunner who turned the fighter into a spiraling ball of metal. Our first fighter shot down!

Flak was insignificant and our bomb run was consequently an amazing 50%!

Success!

Sortie Five Target: Maulte Aircraft

No air combat as the mighty RAF took care of all enemy fighters. Flak was light and our bomb run was on target 30%. Success!

I told the girls we were finished with the “easy” missions and they would start to get longer. Also, as we were now a seasoned crew, we couldn’t be assured of a middle squadron position nor good fighter cover.

Courageously, and delaying their bedtime, we flew on.

Sortie Six Target: Rouen Rail Yard

As we neared our target a single wave came to greet us. Fighter Cover was poor, but the wave was fought off by our fellow B-17s.

We encountered light flak which missed us and our bomb run was on target 30%.

On our return to England over the Channel we encountered a single wave of fighters. Again our Cover was poor and 5 FW190s came screaming in!

“FWs all over! 12 o’clock high, 10:30 level, 9 o’clock level, 6 o’clock high. Woah Nelly! Another one is coming in for a vertical dive!”

Our guns started blazing and our Engineer nailed the 9:00 level with our twin top turret!

The other three high and level FWs missed us as our MGs drove them off.

It was then that the FW in a Vertical Dive inflicted a walking hit along our fuselage! In the nose our Navigator was lightly wounded and our Starboard Waist Gun was damaged. Luckily the remainder of the shells only caused superficial damage.

The FW came in for a second run but was driven off.

The remaining flight home was uneventful. Success!

Wanting “just one more” we repaired our bird and were back in the air.

Sortie Seven Target: Abbeville Airfield.

A nice short mission to finish off the night.

Some Me109s were spotted before our target and our Engineer chalked up his second kill of the campaign nailing the fighter at 9:00 high.

The remaining fighters broke off their attack and we leveled our bomber for the bomb run.

Flak was heavy and began bursting all around us. Then suddenly, without warning a shell hit our tail and burst inside the plane! This is the nightmare of B-17 crews! Our tail was destroyed and our Tail Gunner killed instantly. The Sparrow quickly entered into an uncontrolled spin as it plummeted towards the ground. Only the Navigator was able to abandon the plane before it exploded on impact.

And so ends the tale of the Sparrow as written by Lt. Wilson, Navigator and POW.

Thread: Re: What happens when a 4-yo flys a B-17

Slotracer — 2008-10-13T10:01:06+00:00

That deserves a thumb-up!

Thread: Re: What happens when a 4-yo flys a B-17

Raharanor — 2008-10-13T06:21:02+00:00

If only I could get my dice to roll a six on command when I want them to or for my d20 to roll natural 20s when I'm making saves against death!

Seriously, in the smoke of war you're bound to run into a extreme mix of good and bad fortune. Having your engineer slaughtered by gun-fire and then your fuel tank exploding isn't really a way you'd want to go down in the wartime highlight reels though.

Thread: What happens when a 4-yo flys a B-17

GeneSteeler — 2008-10-13T03:14:43+00:00

What happens when a 4-yo flys a B-17

Introduction

After the emotional flight #3 of the Bluebird I braved one final flight. This time though, I’d be managing ground control with my 4 year-old daughter, Saffron, rolling all the dice.

The Mission

Our mission was to head out to Cherbourg and bomb an Airfield there. Our take off and flight over England and most of the Channel were without incident.

As we neared our objective we encountered a wave of four FW190s!

As the four fighters locked onto us, only one driven away by our “Good” Fighter Cover.

The three FW190 closed in from 9:00 high, 3:00 low and 12:00 level.

Our crew fired ineffectively with the B-17 MGs.

The first FW190 from 9:00 high delivered a walking hit along our fuselage! Our Rubber Rafts were punctured and our Top Turret MG was destroyed and our Engineer hit.

“Ok Saffron, don’t roll a six”

Saffron rolls a six and the Engineer is killed instantly.

(The remaining hits were superficial)

The FW190 at 3:00 low passed by beneath us, unable to get in a good shot.

The final FW190 came straight at us from 12:00 level and riddled our nose and port wing with shells! The port wing outboard fuel tank was hit and caught on fire.

“Ok Saffron, don’t roll a six”

Saffron, gleefully I might add, rolls another six. Consequently, almost instantly, the tank exploded and our port wing flew away.

“Saffron, you just blew up my plane!”

Saffron giggles.

The ill-fated Bluebird entered an uncontrolled spin, but amazingly, four of the nine crew managed to bail before it plunged into the turbulent waters.

(This was one time that Saffron’s ability to roll a six on command came in handy!)

So fortunately, the Bombardier, Navigator, Port Waist Gunner and Tail Gunner all bailed out in time and parachuted into the English Channel. Unfortunately, they fell too close to German occupied soil and all rescue attempts were thwarted. Consequently, they drowned.

One KIA, 5 Went Down in Flames, 4 Drowned. The name Bluebird was never used again and all memory of it stricken from military records.

Saffron, incidentally, was released from her XO duties and sent to bed.

Thread: Re: The Queen of the Skies Menstruates Heavily

nicktaruffi — 2008-10-11T13:27:11+00:00

DaMilli wrote:
Just for the title...

I totally agree!!!

Thread: Re: The Queen of the Skies Menstruates Heavily

DaMilli — 2008-10-11T11:28:13+00:00

Just for the title...

Thread: The Queen of the Skies Menstruates Heavily

GeneSteeler — 2008-10-11T00:35:24+00:00

The Queen of the Skies Menstruates Heavily

Warning and Spoiler Alert: I apologize if my title in anyway offends any of the readers, but I wanted to accurately emphasize the unglamorous and undignified demise of the members of my crew during the third mission, and when I completed playing, this was the imagery that came to mind. Without further ado, the session report:

Briefing

Having just completed my pizza and maiden mission, I decided to take my crew up for some more operations.

The Bluebird’s Second mission was to bomb some aircraft in Meaulte, so with good fighter cover in middle formation and middle position we took off out of London.

Enemy presence was minimal and it wasn’t until we approached our target that 4 Me109s began to bear down towards us. Our RAF fighter cover drove two planes off, but the other two continued on course form 3:00 high and 9:00 low.

Our waist machine guns and turrets began to fire. Our Ball Turret damaged the 9:00 low Me109 and threw her enough off course that she just missed our bird. The 3:00 high Me109 was diverted and left us unscathed.

We encountered light flak which hit our tail, but inflicted only superficial damage.

Our bombing run was on target and we scored a 30% hit ratio!

Turning around, other B-17s drove off the Luftwaffe. They continued to harass us over the English channel, but were again driven off by our fellow B-17s.

We landed without incident 20 minutes after our departure.

A quick debrief and prep saw us soon back in the air, heading back to the Abbeville Airfield that we missed in our last outing. HQ reckoned that we could catch those Me109s on the ground.

We made it to the target without incident as the RAF drove off the one Me109 coming our way. Flak was light as we approached on our bombing run. Our bombardier Lt. Billy Ironfist was getting the knack and was again on target with 30% success!

With high-fives all around the Bluebird we turned the Queen around and headed back towards England.

It was then, our Radio Operator, Sgt. Johnny Morse was advised of three attack waves of the dreaded FW190s coming in!

The first wave saw one of the two FW190s driven off by our fighters as the other was coming in fast from 9:00 low. Our Top turret scored a lucky hit and the damaged FW190 broke off the attack after feebly firing her guns.

With a sigh of relief we braced for the second wave, but no amount of flight training could prepare us for what we were about to encounter. A FW190 was sighted above us in a vertical dive!

Our top turret couldn’t get a bead on the fighter. Sgt Johnny Morse, operating the fired at the FW190 using the Radio MG. He damaged the enemy fighter severely, but she bravely kept us directly under her guns and delivered a walking hit strafing our fuselage from nose to tail!

The FW190s shells riddled the Bluebird’s skin and penetrated deeply. Capt. Vince McGraw was severely wounded as a shell burst through his right shoulder. Sgt Johnny Morse was killed instantly as the Radio Room was riddled with enemy shells. The strafe continued towards our tail and our Port Gunner, Sgt “Lefty” Peterson was also KIA taking a shell from above. The poor fellow didn’t even see it coming. Our starboard elevator was also hit as shells riddled our tailplane.

In complete shock, the remaining crew of the Bluebird scrambled into positions with our Co-Pilot, Lt “Ziggy” Marshall taking control.

Another three FW190s targeted our injured bird in the third wave, but the brave RAF fighters scrambled to our defense and drove them all away.

We pulled into Tight Formation flying over the English channel, as our fellow captains protected us like the injured bird we were.

We landed without further incident and the medics were standing by. Capt Vince McGraw was taken into emergency but died in the night from his fatal wounds.

The Bluebird bled. And bled severely. Command was in shock and instructed the remainder of the crew to grab some drinks and rest. They deserved it. Unable to fly any more missions this night, the B-17 Queen of the Skies was returned to her hangar. Her flow had ceased, but it would be a few days before she would be ready to return to action.

Thread: Enjoying the Bachelor Life with the Virgin Queen of the Skies

GeneSteeler — 2008-10-10T23:48:03+00:00

Enjoying the Bachelor Life with the Virgin Queen of the Skies

Introduction

I got home from work early on Friday (having a few hours off, due to my requirement to work the Saturday morning shift) and looked over my game collection. My eyes faltered when they crossed over ZRCV: Flying Flat-Top, as I really want to give that game another go. But as I had the whole evening, I decided to teach myself B-17: Queen of the Skies instead and embark on my virgin flight aboard the Queen of the Skies.

The Mission

With my crew briefed and prepped for take off, the Bluebird was soon ready to take to the skies!

She lifted off without incident leaving the 8th Airforce Base outside of London and began her flight over England. Our target was the Airfield in Abeville (France). As this was our virgin flight, the RAF gave us a few helpers. We were flying in the middle of the B-17 formation and our squadron position was also in the middle. We were also given Good fighter cover for the whole flight. These ‘bonuses’ would last until the Bluebird completed it’s 5th combat flight.

As we neared our target, German fighters were spotted.

In the first wave two Me110s approached but were driven off by our Good Fighter Cover.

The second wave saw three more fighters coming our way, but again, the boys of the RAF drove them all away.

We got ready to bomb and took some medium flak, but the AA guns failed to score any hits.

Our Bombing run commenced but we were off target! 0% of our bombs fell effectively!

The rest of our squadron completed their run and so we turned around.

Two more Me109s approached, but one was driven off by the RAF. I guess, they were busy protecting the B-17s that actually hit their target as a Me109 was coming in fast from 9:00 Low!

We targeted the incoming plane with our Top turret, Ball Turret and Port Waist Machine Guns!

]]>

We opened fire, but both the Top and Ball Turrets missed. It was up to Port Waist Sgt. “Lefty” Peterson. Opening fire, Lefty hit the Me109 right in the engine and the fighter exploded in an eruption of metal! Go Lefty! Yeah!

As we returned home over the English Channel, enemy fighters were driven off by other B-17s in our squadron.

Returning safely to the 8th Airforce Base, the Bluebird landed without incident. Our maiden voyage was over.

Briefing

A perfect mission, soiled only by missing our most important goal: Actually Bombing Our Target!. HQ called our inaugural mission a ‘draw’ as we neither did any damage to our target, but at least we didn’t lose our bird.

Our one success was Sgt “Lefty” Peterson getting the first mark on the Gunner’s Scoreboard.

I decided that I’d re-fuel the plane and take her for another mission, as this mission took only about 1 hour (to read the rules, punch the counters, learn the system and play through!). I was certain the next mission would fall into the recommended 20 minute playtime (as the first 5 missions are short and undangerous).

But first, I’d make some pizza and pour myself another beverage of choice. Sometimes, Enjoying the Bachelor Life is Good.

Thread: Another one for the 918th Bomb Group

magnuzk — 2008-10-02T14:55:17+00:00

The 918th Bomb Group (H) conducts historical simulated bombing missions with the B-17 Computer Emulator by Preston McMurray and board game B-17: Queen of the Skies by Avalon-Hill. The missions are based on the actual aerial combat action of the 306th Bomb Group (H) based at Thurleigh, England during World War Two. It is a bomb group based upon the novel and movie "Twelve O'clock High" written by Beirne Lay Jr. and Sy Bartlett. The movie was produced by 20th Century Fox.

The real WW2 missions are re-created and fighters, flak, weather and more is based on mission reports. No mission is planned using the B-17:QOTS tables and rules. There are often more details and a few surprises.

Attention all Combat Crews!

The mission today is to Hannover, Germany! We're bombing a Synthetic Rubber plant.

We'll have fighter cover! Gunners: Don't shoot at the P-47s!

Lead today: 1107th, Major Donnelly!

High: 1101st, Major Jackson!

Low: 1269th, Colonel Lucky!

That is all.

Major Wilson salutes the crews and steps back.

http://www.918archbury.com/BriefingRoom/BriefingBoard.html

HISTORICAL NOTES
This mission is based on the real mission to Hannover, July 17 1943. The weather was very bad and the mission recalled over the Netherlands.

From the 303rd Bomb Group:
"Approaching the Dutch coast, the main 303rd BG(H) Group found solid
9/10 cloud cover below their 27,000 feet altitude. They continued
another 75 miles and called Wing, recommending a return to Base. The
recall was approved and the entire Wing was ordered to return home.
The aircraft of the 303rd BG(H), flying as the composite Group, failed
to rendezvous and finally attached themselves to part of the 103rd
Combat Wing. They returned to Base when they received the recall
order. Enemy fighters attacked both formations after the turn back and
followed them for ten minutes out to sea. Two enemy fighters were
destroyed. Flak was meager and inaccurate. There were no casualties or
lost aircraft. Lt. George Stallings described the mission as "an
obvious lack of accuracy in weather forecasting. The mission was
disorganized from the start and small flights of ships were scattered
all over the sky."

JOIN THE 918th:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/918archbury/
(Send the name of your B-17 and names and position of your crew men. Ranks will be assigned later. Let HQ also know if you would like to fly the current mission or wait until the next.)
http://www.918archbury.com/

Thread: Re: First play, A whole campaign in one night!

Leonidas01994 — 2008-09-27T05:06:45+00:00

Well done pal.

I have played lots of campaigns but I never manage one B-17 to made all 25 missions. You are very lucky.

Thread: Re: First play, A whole campaign in one night!

Leonidas01994 — 2008-09-27T05:03:10+00:00

Jpwoo wrote:

At one point my Bombardier had two serious wounds, I saw rules for multiple light wounds but none for multiple serious.

I am not sure about that, but I think somewhere in the rulebook, in the blue sheet or in the errata sheet it is written that 2 serious wounds = KIA

Thread: Re: First play, A whole campaign in one night!

jasta6 — 2008-09-23T16:29:11+00:00

I am in agreement with Ralph. It would depend on the time period to determine what the loss rates were. The reason for a mission limit of 25 was to give the flyers a goal. Early on there were no mission limit and that meant (real or imagined) there was little hope of surviving your tour. IIRC I believe the losses for the AAF was higher than the Armies for the entirety of the war. I think I just read that this past year. Please correct me if I am wrong.

As for the game being more lethal, this has been established long ago. If you go to the 10th BW (400th BG's) Campaign site they have variants posted with the previously mentioned Light/Moderate/Heavy GAF resistant’s tables. I have used them for my own games and they work out real good. The author has fashioned them for time periods and adds the Germen marvel planes into the mix for the later stages of the war.

I would be more inclined to use these charts than a die roll to determine if I fly the mission or not, especially as drastic a 1 in 6 chance to fly or not. There were very few missions in the early part of the European campaign where no bombers went down during a mission. Once the Germans saw that the Americans were committed to daylight missions, they were just as committed to make them pay. In the later stages of the war, flak was approaching the lethality of the GAF in the early stages of the 8th AAF campaign. So this could be modeled by adding one pip to the flak die roll after late 1944 if you want. And subtract one in missions up to early 1944.

That is my 2-cents,
Jim P

Thread: Re: Lethality too high?

Beery — 2008-09-23T12:01:31+00:00

earthboot wrote:
I love this game and I personally don't mind if it is too difficult to win/survive...I haven't had a crew make it yet...

But this is supposed to be a simulation of B-17 air combat. You may like it - heck, I like it as a single mission game, but that's not the point. With the standard rules, I find a 25 mission campaign is far more soul-destroying than rewarding because survival in the campaign is impossible.

Thread: Re: First play, A whole campaign in one night!

jasta6 — 2008-09-23T11:22:42+00:00

forster925 wrote:
I seem to recall that a serious wound plus any other wound is a KIA, ...

I checked last night and you are exactly right, any wound and a SW is a KIA/DOW. I would give the Bombardier the air medal for bravery to have survived two SW's.

Jim P

Thread: Re: Lethality too high?

scribidinus — 2008-09-23T11:12:55+00:00

Beery wrote:
I'd make it card-driven (I'm a card-driven game junkie). I find that a well designed card-driven format always simplifies gameplay while adding extra elements of historical atmosphere, decision-making and resource management into the mix. Of course it's easy to say that, but not so easy to implement in a way that would really enhance what is already a pretty good game.

I thought an enhanced version of the ZOMBIE IN MY POCKET mechanics might be suitable for a bombing raid game. Target: Rouen, 2 cards outbound, 1 over target and 2 inbound.

Thread: Re: Lethality too high?

earthboot — 2008-09-23T09:33:56+00:00

I love this game and I personally don't mind if it is too difficult to win/survive...I haven't had a crew make it yet.. It is indeed a kind of perverse theatre, but just ever so more enjoyable when you do get a crew back. I'll relish that even more, now that I know the stats.

I do appreciate the various comments about the survival rates in this period as I seem to have mistakenly trusted the 'Memphis Belle' dogma.

The best thing about wargaming here on BGG is that I occasionally learn stuff, so thanks for the thread.

Stay gold.

Thread: Re: First play, A whole campaign in one night!

Jpwoo — 2008-09-22T18:51:44+00:00

Then my Bombardier must have been particularly hardy to survive two serious wounds .

As to the variant, I'm no historian I was just going by what better informed people in the thread I linked to suggested. I like the no skipping your last mission change to it though.

Thread: Re: First play, A whole campaign in one night!

ralpher — 2008-09-22T18:20:50+00:00

I disagree with 5/6 runs being milk runs. This means you have an expected 4.25 contested missions, of which a half will play out to be milkruns as well. Surviving 25 missions in 1943 was a feat in itself without long range escort, as B-17s losses could be 25% in a single mission.

Thread: Re: First play, A whole campaign in one night!

forster925 — 2008-09-22T16:48:06+00:00

I seem to recall that a serious wound plus any other wound is a KIA, but I haven't played in about 10 years...

interesting variant. I would humbly suggest that the 25th mission should never be skipped.

Thread: Re: First play, A whole campaign in one night!

jasta6 — 2008-09-22T16:42:51+00:00

Jpwoo wrote:
At one point my Bombardier had two serious wounds, I saw rules for multiple light wounds but none for multiple serious...

I believe he died due to the second serious wound. If IIRC that is on the blue chart under the wound table or the Errata printed on the back of the orange card (2nd ED.) I just had that same thing not too many games ago.

Jpwoo wrote:
I'm gonna have to print up another Mission record sheet or erase the hell out of this one eventually.

Check the files section, there should be a PDF file with both the campaign and Mission sheets.

Jim P

Thread: First play, A whole campaign in one night!

Jpwoo — 2008-09-22T07:45:43+00:00

The Unremarkable tour of Lady Fortuna

Going through the Auction store at this years Gencon I found a copy of B-17 on the cheap. I think it was 20 bucks or so. I had been considering getting it for a while and this was a no brainer. I am really developing a taste for single player war games between this and smokejumpers.

I decided to play through a whole tour for a plane. However there is an excellent thread about the lethality of the game here at the geek.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/146882

And in it The rather well informed Beery suggested a house rule where you roll a die before each mission, and on a 1-5 consider the mission a milk run and skip it. On a roll of a 6 play out the mission as usual. I decided to play with this rule with a small addition. Any mission that had extra flak, I would resolve the Flak but not the fighters for that Mission.

I named my lovely Bomber the Lady Fortuna and primed her take it to those Axis villains across the channel. I played the first mission without making a milk run roll, I just wanted to see the game in action. So my crew (conveniently alphabetically named, Able through Killer) flew off for Cherbourg to take out the airfield there. This turned out to be one of the more eventful missions of the evening.

The boys flew into France with the good air support, the Allied fighters drove off the enemy until they reached the target site where two waves of Germans hit them. They shot one down, and the fighters drove off the rest. Flying in low the heavy flak over the airfield burst in through the side of the Fortuna, killing the Starboard waist gunner, Sgt Ibex on his first trip out. Shocked at experiencing combat for the first time the crew dropped their bombs and hit some lovely pastures, but not the target.

The next few missions were milk runs. Then on the 5th mission, the last one with guaranteed fighter cover, they saw a little action. But nothing too impressive, again the fighters scaring off the Germans.

On mission 7 the boys had their most successful mission of the tour. They bombed the living hell out of a rail yard, hitting with 96% of their payload!

Missions 8 and 9 were both to Rotterdam, apparently drunk with success from the railyard, the Fortuna didn't hit any with any bombs on those trips. The dispatch apparently chewed them a new one, as Mission 10 was also to Rotterdam where they managed to bring in an impressive 60%.

There was a long string of milk runs, and things were looking pretty good for the boys until Mission 16, The trip to Abberville. It is relatively close to base, so this should be an easy trip. The Fortuna flew in and dropped its payload with little resistance, getting a solid 30% hit rate, then as the formation turned around to head for home everything went to hell. Responding to the bombing of the airfield a swarm of German fighters arrived, in three massive waves. Allied fighters were no where to be found, leaving the Fortuna who was in the bottom of the formation to face the Krauts all on her own. Shrapnel from German shells blasted in through the Fortuna on all sides, Seriously wounding the bombardier and the Co pilot. Bullets cracked the main windshield, and most worrying, the starboard landing gear was blown to bits. Thankfully the Fortuna took an insane number of hits that turned out to be only superficial, I count 12 superficial hits in my notes alone, and I may have had some before I started writing them down.

Arriving back in England, the Fortuna was met with bad weather to further complicate the already tricky landing. The boys briefly considered bailing out, but The Pilot Capt, chief said he could bring the plane down safely. He brought her down on that rainy day but just barely, skittering in along the runway in a hale of sparks, spinning the wounded plane along the runway. Just barely fine.

The mods I was looking at on the landing were -4 total...I rolled a Crash land with repairable damage. One worse roll would have resulted in the death of the plane! That was a close one.

The Bombadier was sent home to recover from his wounds, but the wounded Co Pilot, despite the valiant efforts of the base doctors, passed away on the operating table.

Just two Missions later, attacking the Uboat pens at Veggesack, the Fortuna drew the short straw and was in the low formation of the attack. She took heavy damage again, with three serious wounds. They managed to finish the mission just fine, but Two more crew were sent home due to their wounds. Another made a miraculous recovery.

Things started to go well for the Fortuna after that. Milk runs with good success rates, and at the end of Mission 22 things looked good for the crew.

Missions 23 and 24 both came up 6's meaning they were real runs. The Krauts weren't letting the fortuna reach its 25th mission without a fight. As it turns out both of those went pretty well, with 4 german planes getting shot down. Though the last three Missions all came up with 0's on the bomb accuracy. Maybe it was like Catch 22 with the boys just flying in kinda close to the mission and dropping bombs so they could turn around and go home.

Post Mission debriefing

The Fortuna made it through all her missions. Once she came close to having her port wing blown off, with 3 out of 5 structure hits coming. And She had to make one nailbiter of a landing, but she pulled through.

Of the original 10 crew members, 7 made it through all 25 missions to be allowed to retire to desk jobs. Two crewmen died either in action or of wounds, and Three were wounded so badly they couldn't continue.

When all was said and done, the Fortuna brought 22.5% of its bombs to target, giving it a fair rating. Without the amazing 96% run this would have been reduced to 18 percent.

Thoughts and Questions:

This game is accused of being an elaborate game on rails with no choices. I would have to agree. You get to decide where to shoot, but for the most part, it is a no brainer of a decision. You could decide to turn around, or bail out. I somehow found the game enjoyable though. I think this might be because the crews of these bombers really didn't have much choice in the matter of what they did too. They had their orders and they did what they had to to carry them out.

The variant of rolling for milk runs let me play a whole campaign in one night. It was a long night, but it was possible. It also gave me some hope that my crew might live.

At one point my Bombardier had two serious wounds, I saw rules for multiple light wounds but none for multiple serious. He lived and was sent home, but I have the sneaking suspicion that the second wound should have killed him.

I'm gonna have to print up another Mission record sheet or erase the hell out of this one eventually.

Thread: Re: Minute Maid's miraculous survival

simonchol2000 — 2008-09-22T07:10:30+00:00

Would anyone be able to send me the charts from the bottom of the board? I need the following:

B-17 to hit fighters
Fighters to hit B-17

Basically everything from the bottom. I'm in Iraq and don't have access to my stuff from back home.

Thanks
Rick

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The Maverick — 2008-09-18T18:07:39+00:00

Thread: Re: Aborting the Mission

geekgeek — 2008-08-29T01:40:25+00:00

Slotracer wrote:
Does an aborted mission count to reach the 25 missions?
I read this in a Osprey book: 'Knock Out Dropper' was the first 8th Air Force B-17 to complete 50 and 75 missions. In order to set the first record, some 12 aborted missions were tactfully ignored!!
So that must mean that in our game the aboted missions shouldn't count towards the 25 missions. What do you think?

We play with roll for weather in each zone and often 'hit' storm which mean aborting the mission - so far 4 aborted (including due damage B-17s) in 11 missions, so actually we only done 7 missions or what?

Hi all,

New to the game, was wondering if anyone had a answer to Rene's question on whether aborted missions count towards the 25? If so, are they considered a "draw" or German victory?

Thread: Re: Errata from GENERAL magazine?

baub64 — 2008-08-28T17:07:42+00:00

Great link, Franco
- that was what I was looking for when I got called away at work. The Boardgamer's Guide to B-17 is the document I was referring to - and that errata link is excellent. Good flying!!

Thread: Re: Errata from GENERAL magazine?

Engineer Dad — 2008-08-28T15:46:39+00:00

Thanks for posting the link.

Thread: Re: Errata from GENERAL magazine?

geekgeek — 2008-08-28T15:38:12+00:00

loquitur wrote:
There are a bunch of downloads over at web-grognards:

http://www.grognard.com/titleb.html

Thanks! Will check that out too

Thread: Re: Errata from GENERAL magazine?

geekgeek — 2008-08-28T15:37:52+00:00

baub64 wrote:
I believe there is a Wargamer's Guide that contains all of the General stuff compiled, but I don't see a link for it here on the 'geek. If non one else posts a link, I'll check tonight when I get home - I took a copy of it off of the prize table at WBC this year.

Of course, this means I finally have to unpack all my games from WBC . . . my wife will thank you

Thanks Bob, that will be most helpful

Thread: Re: Errata from GENERAL magazine?

loquitur — 2008-08-28T13:55:08+00:00

There are a bunch of downloads over at web-grognards:

http://www.grognard.com/titleb.html

Thread: Re: Errata from GENERAL magazine?

baub64 — 2008-08-28T13:41:47+00:00

I believe there is a Wargamer's Guide that contains all of the General stuff compiled, but I don't see a link for it here on the 'geek. If non one else posts a link, I'll check tonight when I get home - I took a copy of it off of the prize table at WBC this year.

Of course, this means I finally have to unpack all my games from WBC . . . my wife will thank you

Thread: Errata from GENERAL magazine?

geekgeek — 2008-08-28T06:48:38+00:00

Hi guys,

Is there any way of obtaining the rules errata and/or variants published in various GENERAL magazines, short of hunting down each copy 1 by 1?

Thread: Re: Combo Defensive Fire Chart/Combat Board ala B-29

Slotracer — 2008-08-13T08:19:01+00:00

It sure would save some space on the table when playing.

Thread: Combo Defensive Fire Chart/Combat Board ala B-29

kjamma4 — 2008-08-12T18:58:23+00:00

I was looking at the images for the B-29 Superfortress game and saw this:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/352515?size=large

It would be great if someone could make a similar thing for B-17 which:

a) was 11" x 22" so there is room to place counters and
b) combined the Defensive Fire Chart so that you had a plethora of information at your fingertips on one piece (albeit large piece) of paper.

Any graphic artists out there that are up to the challenge?

Thanks.

Thread: Re: Waves of Attacking German Fighters

jasta6 — 2008-08-09T21:00:56+00:00

gicombat wrote:
Do I roll on table B-3 3 times and place ALL of the aircraft? or do I place each wave...
Mike D
Pittsburgh, PA

Hi Mike,

You roll for all three waves and then play them out one at a time.

Jim P

GO STEELERS!
(born north of Pittsburg way back when)

Thread: Waves of Attacking German Fighters

gicombat — 2008-08-09T17:56:46+00:00

Hello all,
I've just discovered BoardGameGeek and was stoked when I found out there were message boards for B-17. I love to play this game.

Anyway, to my question:
Supposed I roll for 3 waves of attackers (table B-2). Do I roll on table B-3 3 times and place ALL of the aircraft? or do I place each wave, resolve intercept, defensive fire, etc before moving onto wave #2?

If the former (place ALL at once), what happens if I roll the same result on table B-3 twice (three times?)? if that is the case, what happens to aircraft that are to be place in a location where another aircraft already has been placed (e.g. 12 High)

The rules (6.1.b) seems to indicate that all wave rolls are made but I'm not clear about this. (Wouldn't be the first time!)

Later,
Mike D
Pittsburgh, PA

Thread: Consim World’s 100th Bomber Group Virtual, Posted Mission 19

jasta6 — 2008-08-09T14:05:07+00:00

Hi all,

Now the commanding officers of the 8th USAAF have devised a plan to severally cripple Hitler’s war machine by taking out the plants that produce the Ball Bearing that keep his engines of destruction moving. Terry’s games at the WBC convention next weekend will be hitting those vital plants with the 1BW. We are flying the Sister mission that took off just prior to the 1BW to hit the Messerschmitt Factories in Regensburg Germany. The 100th BG (V) continued operations, with the 4BW, after its second win in a row.

Why not join us while we pummel Fortress Europes ability to produce their war machine. If you have wanted to joins our ranks this is a great mission to start with. Just go to the link below, dust off that B-17: QotS game or head over to the Vassal site and join in the fun. Remember this is a fly at will game. You only fly the missions you want to fly. But I hope once you start you will return game after game. If you can’t fly a few missions and want back in then just post your AAR’s for the missions you can fly.

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?13@445.pasrei6xgaI.36@.1dd1...

I truly await your arrival!

Jim P

Thread: Re: Computer version?

Airborne — 2008-07-30T17:01:13+00:00

The Vassal version is very good for this game.

Thread: Minute Maid's miraculous survival

jomni — 2008-07-30T01:15:12+00:00

We hear stories about how the B-17 Flying Fortress can withstand massive amounts of damage and still make it back home. My most recent mission is a testament to this legend.

The Minute Maid's maiden flight is actually Mission #14 in my campaign. The target is Lorient U-Boats. The target is very far (Zone 6?) and has more AA guns than usual. Everyone knows this will not be a milk run.

To make the long story short, the Minute Maid did get to bomb the target but did not hit anything (0% bomb run). The bomber took massive amounts of damage including a BIP (AA shell burst inside the plane)! It was forced out of formation making it prone to more planes (+1 Me109 at 12 level, and interceptors come back for another shot even when they miss). You won't believe how many German fighters took a shot at the plane. Despite all the damage, the Minute Maid manages to get back to home base with most of the crew intact. Mission is a DRAW.

Below is the damage assessment:
1) Rudder Hit x1
2) Instrument: Rudder Control (landing penalty)
3) Starboard Wing Root Hit x1
4) Port Wing Root Hit x2
5) Engine #3 Out
6) Aileron (landing penalty)
7) Tail Gunner Heat Out (frostbite risk)
8) Autopilot Inoperable (bombing penalty)
9) Intercom Out (to hit roll of 6 only for all gun positions)
10) Radio Out (no mayday call when landing on water)
11) Control Cable Hit x1
12) Port Waist Gun Destroyed
13) Tail Gun Destroyed
14) Numerous superficial damage in several areas

Crew status:
Bombardier: Light Wounds
Radio Operator: KIA (due to AA shell burst in Radio compartment)
Pilot: Light Wounds
Port Waist Gunner: Serious Wounds --> does not survive
Starboard Waist Gunner: Light Wounds x2, downs Me 109
Tail Gunner: Frostbite --> does not recover and is sent home
Engineer: downs Me 109

more amazing pics here:
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/fuselage.htm

Thread: Re: He 111 Play Test AAR

JimM — 2008-07-28T00:48:57+00:00

That is very nice to hear!! Thanks for the update

Jim

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Reinwood99 — 2008-07-19T20:09:03+00:00

My B-17 too much flack and exploded over Bremen Germany

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Neopeius — 2008-07-07T23:10:48+00:00

Four year-old daughter insists on playing after seeing Memphis Belle.

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Xookliba — 2008-05-27T12:24:57+00:00

A position counter for the lancaster variant which fits the look and feel of the main game

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manowarplayer — 2008-04-15T05:31:25+00:00

B-17 Color Flight Log (Adapted & modified from the original version used at gaming conventions by Rally Point Products)

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RayGuns — 2008-03-18T18:20:08+00:00

B-17F Gunnery Circle - Players may find this gunnery circle useful when playing B17QotS.

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JimM — 2008-03-17T23:25:23+00:00

YB-40 Variant Crew Placement Chart

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RayGuns — 2008-02-19T05:20:29+00:00

Full page add for the game from a GENERAL magazine.

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perezron — 2008-02-03T18:37:13+00:00

1/144th B-17 over the target

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armed-medic — 2008-01-06T07:53:10+00:00

Radar Operator and German Squadron counters