Game: Primordial Soup

Thread: Re: Tentacle + Speed?

red turtle — 2008-09-25T05:02:03+00:00

I would assume that would be the case.

Thread: Re: Substitution and (I think) Parasitism

jgrundy — 2008-09-18T21:41:02+00:00

You can apply the alternative feeding methods in any combination, and there's nothing on Parasitism to restrict which foodstuff you don't need to eat.

So yes you can apply Substitution to change to 3:1 then Parasitism to change to 3:0 and making the other player pay a BP.

Thread: Substitution and (I think) Parasitism

swingjunkie — 2008-09-18T18:21:51+00:00

So, Sustitution turns 1-1-1 cube need into 3-1 or 2-2 cube needs. If you have Parasitism, can you take 3 of one color and the BP or does it have to be 2-1 and the BP?

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HRune — 2008-09-07T13:02:18+00:00

Homemade amoebae inspired by jgrundy and Pierre Lefebvre - closeup

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HRune — 2008-09-07T13:01:40+00:00

Homemade amoebae inspired by jgrundy and Pierre Lefebvre

Thread: Re: Observations and analyses by component

knickpoint — 2008-09-03T00:02:08+00:00

This is such a cool breakdown of the game, thanks for figuring all this out!

Thread: Re: Solo Variant!!!

knickpoint — 2008-09-02T01:59:36+00:00

I just played again and got spanked: yellow - 44, red - 38, green (me) - 31

Now I am all for using division rate if I get my grubby hands on it. Its pretty tough if the die rolls don't go your way. I definitely should have developed a strategy as a fell behind, instead of hoping for the best. I always felt like I had at least a shot at second, which made it fun till the end.

Thread: Solo Variant!!!

knickpoint — 2008-09-02T00:22:14+00:00

First off... Huge thanks to Kevin Duffy (Grildensnork) for coming up with a two player variant! I use his basic rules for controlling the AI amoebas, so in order to play the solo variant, you have to download his two player variant here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/14423

To play solo:

1. There are two dummy players, the scoring track starts with a dummy on space 1 and 2, and your marker on space 3.

2. Throughout the whole game, place the dummy amoebas following Kevin's rules. Sometimes it gets a little tricky to do this randomly but totally doable. The only difference is that if a dummy can "drift" into a spot with food, it will do so, if not, it rolls.

3. Gene cards are a blast in this variant. The dummy players get a new gene card per turn, but only the ones Kevin says they can get (except I let them take spores and just roll 2D6 to figure out placement). They can only have 3 cards max, and will loose a card every turn when they gain a card if they are at 3. They loose the card they have had the longest in their hand. The same is true if a dummy player has loose a card because of the Ozone layer, they loose the gene card they have had he longest (I just keep them stacked in order to keep track). I find this is a great way to shuffle the good and bad cards through the dummy players. For you, you can pay 4 BPs to buy a gene card, but it is selected at random. I do this so I can start figuring out how to play all the cards in the deck. To buy a card of your choosing, you have to pay 6 BPs.

More gene stuff... if you randomly draw a level 2 gene card and you don't have the requisite level 1 gene card to turn in, you must redraw. The dummies get the good cards regardless.

4. Cell division, follow Kevin's rules

5. Deaths as normal in the game

6. Scoring and winner as normal in the game

I've played twice now, and the game is a ton of fun. I just made some Fimo amoebas with my wife and dying to play, so the solo variant. To make it a little harder next time, I won't let myself buy the "division rate" gene card. It is very powerful if you get it, and if the dummies get it. I won my last game because of this card (barely). To make it tougher, I won't let myself buy it next time.

If you are interested, I hope you enjoy this variant and give Kevin a thumb's up for doing most of the work!

Thread: Re: Funniest game I own (or how many times can you re-use poop jokes)

Chanfan — 2008-08-25T15:43:25+00:00

This game has been in my collection a long time. Somehow, the urge to play a game about eating other players excrement takes over every once in a while, and it makes it to the table with some regularity, if not frequency.

Thread: Re: Funniest game I own (or how many times can you re-use poop jokes)

BrenoK — 2008-08-25T02:31:03+00:00

Oh, I forgot the rating. I give this game an 8.5, the extra .5 just because of the humor. It's not something you'd play every week (or obsess over it just after purchasing it, like Agricola), but it definitely belongs in a mid-sized collection.

Thread: Funniest game I own (or how many times can you re-use poop jokes)

BrenoK — 2008-08-25T02:03:40+00:00

So, in my quest to reach 20GG and be able to vote in the geek awards, I'm writing reviews like crazy (no digital camera to take pics, and even if I did, I'm horrible at photography). So, I've decided to write a review on this jewel of a game.

The first thing I should mention about this game is that it's funny. Funny as hell. It's the funniest game I own. Maybe it's because my group is filled with comic geniuses, or maybe we're just a silly bunch, but one thing's for sure: the pooping has a lot to do with it.

In case you don't know already, in this game each player controls a kind of amoeba that tries to survive in the Primordial soup by eating other player's "genetic material" and "excreting" material of your own, trying your best to evolve in a productive manner and not starve. In other words, what you do in this game is try to eat poop. Desperately.

In portuguese, as in many languages, I expect, poop is not a very honorable matter. In fact, we have a bunch of curse words for pooping, and could be used in many contexts. Everyone knows that old monty python recording of how flexible the F word is in English. One could probably do the same thing on the act of pooping in portuguese (at least in brazilian portuguese, in Portugal there are quite a few linguistic differences).

(warning, naughty words ahead, warning)
- "Merda!" can be easily translated as "shit". One says this one things go wrong. Quite simple, no?
- "Cagar" could be trans "taking a dump". This can be used when somebody messes something up. For an example, you lend your car to a friend of yours and he returns it with many problems that it didn't have. You could say your friend "cagou" the car.
- "Cagão" is derived from "cagar", which means "someone that takes a dump". This is slang for a lucky person (yes, now that I think about it, it really makes little sense).

In this last case it really doesn't take much imagination. A guy manages a lucky roll and you can call him "cagão", which will automatically be a pun because of the excretion in the game. Whether it was your intention or not, it doesn't matter. Same thing for a person complaining about a side of the board that ends up being green-heavy (or any other color), he can say that green "cagou" that side of the board. Another pun. More laughs. And, of course, the truly strange-sounding but perfectly reasonable moment in which a player is moving his amoebas and remembers "Oh, I forgot to poop!", and the other one doing the bookkeeping lays the issue to rest "Oh, don't fret, I've already pooped for you!". I used to joke that videogames invented a bunch of new expressions that otherwise would never be heard ("Damn, I died again!"), but now I realize the same thing happens with boardgames, but probably even to a higher degree. I don't think I'll ever hear "I've already pooped for you" in any other context, really.

This game isn't very short (about 2 hours, on the longer side of euros) and the jokes (the same ones) are still funny at the end of the game. This really something deserving of some sort of sociological or psychological study. Knock-knock jokes are lame because we've all heard them before. How can this game be funny every time when we play it?

Ok, so the humour part of it is really well covered now. Onto the actual gameplay:
The game is a simple system for the rule-bending cards to work in. A player purchases them and tries to make combos so as to make his amoebas starve as little as possible. You get points by having cards and having many amoebas on the board. The system is mostly well balanced, with my only concern about the game being the fact that you can take a major stumble and stay behind for the rest of the game with no hope of recovery. It seems that the expansion covers that with some new powers, but I haven't played the game with it yet (I just got it, but will only be able to give it a whirl in october).

Something that must be said is that I didn't like the blue amoebas: the amoebas all have numbers printed on them in black paint, and the blue background makes it reaaaally hard to tell what number it is.

Another problem with the game is it's fiddliness. Every time your amoeba eats, you have to take 3 cubes out of the board and put 2 of your color (this could change with the cards you get), so if you have 5 amoebas that don't starve (you sure hope they don't), you'll be removing 15 cubes and putting 10 on the board. That's quite a bit of cube-moving. If the other players help out, not only will it make this faster

This isn't a simple game. Sure, the rules are quite clear, but the best play can be quite often hard to find. Things get really messy after a few turns. I remember clearly when I first played it I thought "there must be some rule wrong, almost every amoeba will starve in the next turn". The rules were correct. We really were screwed, all of us.

This is something that I saw happen in all my plays of this game. In the first few turns, everything's ok, there's food for everyone. Then, someone buys the first "Struggle for survival" card, that allows a player to devour another player's amoeba (and make him lose the VP that amoeba would've given him). Oh, that's mean! Scoring in this game is extra tight because of an unique scoring mechanism, but I won't go too much into that. Just so you have an idea, the most you can score in a single turn is 10 VPs (If I'm not mistaken), and I have yet to see it happen. One VP can make quite the difference.

Another thing I'd like to comment on is something that surprised me: considering this game is over 10 years old, it is quite unique. It has unique mechanics, a unique feel. There's nothing like it. Managing your amoebas, trying to pick a good combo at the correct moment (because sometimes you won't be able to maintain it), choosing when it's better to take damage or when you should fight for something better, all this makes for quite a fun and different experience. After dozens of area-majority "let's put an auction so that I don't have to balance the prices myself" games, playing this really was a breath of fresh air. Despite all the pooping.

Thread: Re: Movement Cost

gpren — 2008-08-21T17:28:34+00:00

After reading your post I went back and double checked. Sure enough, I missed it the first time through. Thank you for your help Joe.

Thread: Re: "Speed" gene card question

gpren — 2008-08-21T17:24:54+00:00

Okay, just wanted to make sure before we play our first game. It would have been much simpler if they had worded it the way you put it.

Thread: Re: Movement Cost

jgrundy — 2008-08-21T17:07:37+00:00

During the turn...
1. Movement and feeding
Each amoeba has two options. It may Drift or Move.

Drifting is being carried one space in the direction indicated by the face up Environment card.

Moving is anything else. With no gene cards, to Move you pay one BP and roll the die.

The "pay 1 BP" is the movement cost.

Thread: Re: "Speed" gene card question

frunkee — 2008-08-21T17:04:30+00:00

gpren wrote:
The reference card booklet states the following when describing the "Speed" gene card:

"An Amoeba cannot Drift twice nor mix Drifting with Movement so in effect a player pays for the first Movement as normal the makes a second one as described above""

I read this to mean that the Amoeba cannot drift at all when putting the Speed card into effect, that it must move by rolling the die for BOTH of the movements permitted using the Speed Card. Is this correct?

Correct. It could be put this way:

You can choose to move or drift. If you drift you cannot use Speed. If you move you can choose to use Speed after resolving the first move. Speed enables a second free move. This second move is not a drift.

Thread: Re: "Speed" gene card question

dkeisen — 2008-08-21T17:04:19+00:00

Yes.

Naturally, the amoeba is free to drift once and end there and not use the speed card at all. All uses of gene cards are optional.

Thread: "Speed" gene card question

gpren — 2008-08-21T16:54:22+00:00

The reference card booklet states the following when describing the "Speed" gene card:

"An Amoeba cannot Drift twice nor mix Drifting with Movement so in effect a player pays for the first Movement as normal the makes a second one as described above""

I read this to mean that the Amoeba cannot drift at all when putting the Speed card into effect, that it must move by rolling the die for BOTH of the movements permitted using the Speed Card. Is this correct?

Thread: Movement Cost

gpren — 2008-08-21T16:52:31+00:00

The reference booklet refers to "movement cost" several times (under the Movement I, Speed, and Streamline card descriptions). The Streamline card states "Movement, with or WITHOUT a gene card costs no BP's". I see nothing under the rules for moving regarding a "movement cost". What are the movement cost and when do they come into play?

Thread: Re: Is Tentacle + substitution that incredibly strong?

lordunborn — 2008-07-31T12:18:21+00:00

I won a game last night with Suction 2 (From Expansion) and Substitution. Substitution is a VERY powerful card in a 3 player game as most spaces end up having only 2 colors in them (and one is usually yours). I have only played 3 games so far but I do like Substitution.

Thread: Re: Thoughts on shortening game length?

BrenoK — 2008-07-17T14:25:11+00:00

1 point per amoeba and gene card changes the whole strategy and gameplay of the game. If you do this, please don't rate the game here on BGG, because you'll be playing a different one from what all of us are playing.

Shortening the track is definitely the way to go, if you want a shorter game.

Thread: Re: Thoughts on shortening game length?

bwridge — 2008-07-17T14:17:32+00:00

We played a game last night that took us 140 minutes. We al lfelt it lasted a bit long...

Rather than shorten the track, the idea of speeding up point accumulation came to me. IN particular, why not give players a flat 1 point for each amoeba/each gene card the player has?

As it is, gene cards don't start contributing points until the 2nd or third turn, and they don't escape the first point range for another turn or two after that.

Brian

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Beyak — 2008-07-13T23:14:50+00:00

Back of yellow amobaes. Note: numbering system

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Beyak — 2008-07-13T23:13:28+00:00

Score tokens and bio points

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Beyak — 2008-07-13T23:12:35+00:00

My yellow amobeas

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Beyak — 2008-07-13T23:11:40+00:00

My red amobeas

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Beyak — 2008-07-13T23:09:16+00:00

Back of my green amobeas. Note the numbering system

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Beyak — 2008-07-13T23:07:03+00:00

My Blue Amobeas

Thread: Re: Is Tentacle + substitution that incredibly strong?

Eric Brosius — 2008-07-13T17:36:39+00:00

There are a lot of options. Last game I played the winning combo was Division Rate, Longevity and Ray Protection. This allowed the player to replace dead amoebas fast enough to offset the damage (even though his amoebas often failed to eat.)

Thread: Re: Is Tentacle + substitution that incredibly strong?

markus_kt — 2008-07-13T14:18:56+00:00

It really seems to depend on the players and how they're adapting to what others are doing. I've seen so many combos look great one game and be useless another. My own recent favorite, ~~substitution~~ frugality + ray protection + longevity + (when I can get and keep them, if necessary) streamlining + escape sometimes wins, sometimes doesn't. I've seen struggle for survival do well, and seen it not be worth the points. This game is far more tactical than it is strategic.

Edit: whoops, had substitution on the brain when I typed that. Frugality is one of my favorites.

Thread: Re: Is Tentacle + substitution that incredibly strong?

clearclaw — 2008-07-13T13:51:20+00:00

BrenoK wrote:
So, what are you guys impressions on this combo? Do you think it's overpowered?

No, if anything the genes that allows you to eat other amoebas (forget name) is worth significantly more than its BP cost. I rarely see games won by players not holding them.

Thread: Tentacle + Speed?

BrenoK — 2008-07-13T13:12:55+00:00

Since with speed one can move twice, can you use the tentacle twice?

You're in Square A. Can you take 3 cubes from A to B and 3 other cubes from B to C? Could I take 2 cubes from A, pick a 3rd one in B and take all 3 to C?

Thread: Is Tentacle + substitution that incredibly strong?

BrenoK — 2008-07-13T13:07:00+00:00

Both times I've played a match in which this combo appeared the player won by a pretty substantial margin. I don't know if it's just with us, but it's quite usual that the spaces in the game become riddled with same-color cubes, so being able to eat one color less is pretty big, specially if you can do it whenever you want and choose to eat an extra red so the other player's amoeba starves this turn.

That, of course, added with the tentacle becomes an absolute killer.

So, what are you guys impressions on this combo? Do you think it's overpowered?

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f-p-p-m — 2008-07-11T07:12:55+00:00

6 player setup with selfmade playing pieces

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f-p-p-m — 2008-07-11T07:10:30+00:00

Selfmade victory point marker

Thread: Re: Hand made amoeba available. Turns out they're pricey!

KlausKnechtskern — 2008-07-09T13:46:03+00:00

HI Joe,

are you taking orders right now? or is the shop closed?

regards

Klaus

Thread: Re: Newbie question about New Gene cards

markus_kt — 2008-07-09T03:34:31+00:00

My pleasure! Yah, we weren't sure what to do the first time we played and then realized that was the logical way to go.

Thread: Re: Newbie question about New Gene cards

gpren — 2008-07-08T13:45:08+00:00

OK, that's what I thought but I wanted to make sure. The rules really need to be more specific about that. Thanks for your help Mark!

Thread: Re: Newbie question about New Gene cards

markus_kt — 2008-07-06T21:41:47+00:00

Just lay them out and allow people to pick from them. In the 3-player game, for example, you'd have the gene cards marked "3" available for purchase.

Thread: Newbie question about New Gene cards

gpren — 2008-07-06T21:00:13+00:00

I just read the rules to prepare for our first game of Primordial Soup. I have one question about buying the New Gene cards. Where do they come from????? The set up rules for the game state only that the Gene cards with a "3" on their bottom corner are used for a 3 player game, and the rules for Phase 3 : New Genes state only that each player can use BP's to buy new Gene cards during the phase. Nowhere does it say where the new Gene cards come from! Are they all laid out face up, with every card visible and available for purchase? Or are a certain number of cards drawn from a deck of new Gene cards and only the drawn cards are available for purchase?

Thread: Re: Ursuppe?

Germarish — 2008-06-27T11:38:06+00:00

HillKing wrote:
I believe it referres to the ancient german text written by Urseppe Spronglivich titled "Urseppe Sups" a collection of short stories about the creation of the world. "Ur" translating into "The First" and "suppe" into "Clam Chowder"

go figure.

Thread: Re: Ursuppe?

HillKing — 2008-06-27T02:47:49+00:00

I believe it referres to the ancient german text written by Urseppe Spronglivich titled "Urseppe Sups" a collection of short stories about the creation of the world. "Ur" translating into "The First" and "suppe" into "Clam Chowder"

go figure.

Thread: Re: Armor, Defense, and Escape...

rywilson — 2008-06-23T23:20:06+00:00

In answer to your first question

Woelf wrote:
1) If I have Defense and Escape, do I have to return both to get Armor?

you would only have to return 1 of the 2 genes.

This is how we played as well.

As far as your second question

Woelf wrote:
2) If I had Escape and upgraded it to Armor, can I still buy Defense? Can I buy Escape again instead of Defense, or does Armor “remember” what was returned for the upgrade?

I had hoped that someone else would answer it because I have the same question.

We decided that if you had Armor it had no memory of what was returned but you can only have one additional card. So at any time you may switch back and forth between Armor/Defense or Armor/Escape but you may never have all three.

Thread: Re: Does each player move all of its amoebas at once?

BrenoK — 2008-06-14T05:06:28+00:00

In my game the amoebas really tended to pile up together (for the joy of the guy with parasitism and the other one with struggle for survival), so that would really screw with the guy going last...

But having it split up like that made for some interesting decisions in choosing the number of the new amoeba you place on the board, since the amoeba-number actually goes against other player's numbers as well. After a few plays with the different rules maybe this will be a variant my group plays with...

Thread: Re: Does each player move all of its amoebas at once?

clearclaw — 2008-06-14T04:45:02+00:00

BrenoK wrote:
Now re-reading the manual it would seem that red would move all of its amoebas and then blue would go with all its pieces, then green, then yellow.

This is correct.

Doesn't yellow get really shafted in this?

That rather depnds on what genes they have and how they've positioned themselves.

Thread: Re: Does each player move all of its amoebas at once?

Larry Welborn — 2008-06-14T04:37:50+00:00

You did play incorrectly. Each player moves all of his amoebas at one time, from lowest numbered amoeba to highest.

As to whether the player to move last is shafted, remember that although movement is in ascending order, gene phase and cell division is in descending order, so in your example, yellow would go first.

Also remember that the turn order is reset on each turn, based on the players' position on the scoring track.

Thread: Does each player move all of its amoebas at once?

BrenoK — 2008-06-14T04:11:08+00:00

I've just re-read the manual and I think we played this wrong. In the movement phase we had each player move one amoeba at a time like this

Red moves its #1
Blue moves its #1
Green moves its #2 (its number one was eaten)
Yellow moves its #1

THEN

Red moves its #2
Blue moves its #3 (its number 2 wasn't placed on the board yet)
Green moves...

and so on...

Now re-reading the manual it would seem that red would move all of its amoebas and then blue would go with all its pieces, then green, then yellow.

Doesn't yellow get really shafted in this? I mean from the match I played it seems like yellow would get DPs for almost all its amoebas, and doesn't look like there's a way to remove the DPs...

Thread: Re: Armor, Defense, and Escape...

ejclason — 2008-06-03T14:04:35+00:00

In answer to your first question
Woelf wrote:
1) If I have Defense and Escape, do I have to return both to get Armor?
you would only have to return 1 of the 2 genes.

As far as your second question
Woelf wrote:
2) If I had Escape and upgraded it to Armor, can I still buy Defense? Can I buy Escape again instead of Defense, or does Armor “remember” what was returned for the upgrade?
I had hoped that someone else would answer it because I have the same question.

Thread: Re: So What's Not To Like?

HillKing — 2008-06-03T01:08:08+00:00

Just bought this game, thanks for the interesting view. I agree, is qaurky, but i look foward to playing it because i think the theme is great.

Thread: Observations and analyses by component

ejclason — 2008-06-02T22:12:46+00:00

This post does not give direct strategy suggestions. Rather it gives observations and analyses that may be useful in developing strategies. As a bit of whimsy, I organized these observations by game component.

Note: Unless it is specified otherwise, assume a 4 player game and no gene effects. I didn’t bother prefacing my observations with ‘In a 4 player game’ or ‘If X gene is not present’.

Score Markers
The advancement method of the Score Marker (skipping over the Score Markers of other players) means that there is no need for a tie breaker, either to determine the winner, or to determine player order during the phases of a round. I suspect this was the reason it was devised. If it is compared to a VP scoring system where everyone starts at 0 VP and ties are allowed, the player in front on the Scoring Ladder would have the most or be tied for the most VPs (in the case of ties, the players who started further in front would be the player in front). However the player in 2nd place on the Scoring Ladder might not be the player who scored the 2nd most VPs.
For example: A 3 player game, where players A, B, and C started in that order. If B scored 2 more points than A and C scored 1 more point than A, the order in a VP game would be: B, C, A. However the order using the Scoring Ladder is: B, A, C.
There are 2 things that advance the scoring marker: amoebas and genes. In phase 6, for each amoeba or gene, starting with a player’s 3rd, he advances the Score Marker by one. Amoebas cost 6 BP, gene cost between 2 and 6 BP. Genes usually last longer the Amoebas. So genes would appear to be the better deal. 3 things mitigate genes apparent superiority. 1st, a player starts the game with 2 amoebas and 0 genes. This means the 1st amoeba he buys, scores, but the 1st 2 genes he buys do not score. The 2nd mitigator is gene defects. About the time a player gets enough genes to score with them, he’ll find that he will have to pay additional BP to keep them on low ozone rounds. Finally, amoeba purchases use this round’s BP while gene purchases use last round’s BP. So an amoeba purchased with BPs earned this round has the potential to score 1 more VP (if it lasts to the end of the game) than if that BP is used to purchase a gene on the next round. This effect gets larger towards the end of the game as the likelihood that an amoeba will last to the end of the game increases.

Scoring Ladder
The first 4 spaces on the Scoring Ladder are starting positions, and the Scoring Ladder has 42 spaces before the finish zone. This means the game will end when one or more players have advanced 38 spaces. Typically it takes only 8 or 9 rounds for the game to end. That means that an analysis based on how things average out in the long run or some equilibrium may be faulty because the game won’t last long enough for the ‘long run’ or equilibrium to occur.
Example: Over the long run Division Rate and Long Life are similar in that they both reduce the cost of receiving a DP from 3 BPs to 2 BPs. However in the short run Division Rate allows the build up of the number of amoebas faster than Long Life will. On the other hand Long Life applies to amoebas already born and future amoebas whereas Division Rate only helps future amoebas. Given the length of the game, these short term differences are quite important.

Game Board
The Game Board has 19 spaces. Of these spaces, 3 border no walls, 9 border 1 wall, 6 border 2 walls, and 1 border 3 walls. This means that the average number of walls bordering a space is 1.26 and the most common type of space is a space that borders 1 wall. The more walls a space has, the more likely an amoeba that starts in that space will stay in that space after a drift or move.
Example: If a space has no walls, the chance of an Escape failing is only 17%. However the chance of an Escape failing in an average space is 38%, over twice as likely.

Food Cubes (Wood Cubes)
Each turn a successful amoeba eats 3 cubes and excretes 2, for a net change in the number of cubes of 1. Each space begins with 8 cubes. One might think that would mean there is plenty of food at the start of the game. However the starting cubes in a space can feed only 2 amoebas. After 2 feedings a space will have either 6 cubes of 1 color (if the same color amoeba ate there twice) or 3 cubes of each of 2 colors (if 2 different colored amoebas ate there). So in actuality the game starts with only 38 ‘meals’. On the 1st round, all 8 amoebas are guaranteed to eat. The 2nd round there will probably be 12 amoebas and on the 3rd round, around 16 amoebas. Therefore there will be a demand for about 36 ‘meals’ over the first 3 rounds. Given the unguided nature of amoeba drift/movement, 1 or 2 amoebas will probably starve on round 2 and the real starvation will begin on round 3.

Environment cards
There are 11 Environment cards, enough so that I’ve never been in a game where they needed to be reshuffled. The 11 Environment cards have the following Ozone Layer Thicknesses: 6, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14. The table below shows the expected average payout (BP) per round to prevent gene defects during Phase II for a given total MP:
MP BP
6 0.0
7 0.1
8 0.2
9 0.4
10 0.7
11 1.4
12 2.1
13 2.9
14 3.8
15 4.8
This table shows an inflection point at 10 MP. Below 10 MP, expected payout is negligible. Above 10 MP, it becomes significant and grows quickly. When a player is planning his gene combo, if the MP total goes above 10, he should weigh the average BP payout he is going to incur once his combo is complete.

Biological Points (BP) (Wood Disks)
Each turn a player gets 10 BP. Therefore typically (if the game last 8 or 9 turns) a player is going to have 84 or 94 BP to spend over the course of the game. In order to win, a player needs to convert those BP into at least 38 scoring marker advances (VP) and probably more. So for every 2 BPs spent, approximately 1 VP should be earned. The earlier a BP is spent, the more leverage it has. This means that early in the game a player needs better than a 2 BP to 1 VP ratio, because BPs spent near the end of the game won’t earn as many VPs. In particular the 10 BPs earned on the last turn will probably be used to buy 1 or 2 (if 2 BP were leftover after gene buying) amoebas, that’s a rate of 10 BP for 1 VP or 12 BP for 2 VP.

Damage Points (DP) (Wood Beads)
A new amoeba cost 6 BPs. An amoeba dies after it receives 2 DP. Therefore when an amoeba receives a DP it cost the player 3 BPs.
Death, and the 8 food cubes it generates, is not instant upon acquiring a second DP but instead happens in its own Phase. Therefore the amount of food available on the map board decreases throughout Phase 1 (Movement) as 3 food cubes are eaten for each 2 pooped. Consequently amoebas that go earlier in phase 1 have a better chance of finding sufficient food.

Thread: Armor, Defense, and Escape...

Woelf — 2008-05-29T17:38:58+00:00

When you buy an advanced gene you have to return the prerequisite gene, and you can’t buy it back later (for example, you can’t buy Movement 1 if you have Movement 2), but…

1) If I have Defense and Escape, do I have to return both to get Armor?

2) If I had Escape and upgraded it to Armor, can I still buy Defense? Can I buy Escape again instead of Defense, or does Armor “remember” what was returned for the upgrade?

Added:
The reason for the confusion/debate about this is that the price for Armor is: "6+ return Defense OR Escape" (emphasis added), which could imply that if you had both you would only have to return one of them.

Unlike the other advanced genes, Armor does not inherently provide the benefits of its prerequisites (or simply make them obsolete), so there would be a definite advantage to using them together.

Thanks.

Thread: Re: Drift, move....must I do one or the other??

jgrundy — 2008-03-26T00:26:22+00:00

My rulebook (an original Doris & Frank English version) says:

[c] * * * * *[/c]
1. Movement and feeding

... Each amoeba has two options:

a. the Amoeba may allow itself to *Drift
The Amoeba drifts one space in the direction shown by the *Environment card currently face up on the compass. If however there is an obstacle (Edge of Board, Compass) in the way, the amoeba stays put. Other amoebas are no obstacle ...

b. Alternatively, the amoeba may *Move, using its own strength
If the amoeba hasn't yet acquired any extra genese, ... pays 1 *Biological Point (BP) and rolls a die. ...

Each amoeba must either *Drift or *Move. Staying put is only possible if this is a current *direction of drift or by appropriate movement.
[c] * * * * *[/c]

In this case, the last paragraph is a clarification that you must do one or the other, you can't just say "I'm staying put". But the definition of "*drift" then includes that you will stay put if there is an obstacle.

Thread: Re: Drift, move....must I do one or the other??

voynix — 2008-03-25T21:53:44+00:00

If your amoeba cannot drift because it is blocked, then you are NOT forced to move it; it can stay where it is.

Thread: Drift, move....must I do one or the other??

Mishko — 2008-03-25T21:42:55+00:00

If one of my amoebas is blocked from drifting must I attempt to move it?? The rules don't explicitly say something like, "If a player's amoeba cannot drift because it is blocked by an obstacle the player must attempt to move the amoeba."

Yes, the rules state, "Each amoeba must either drift or move." And, further, "Staying put is only possible with the appropriate die roll (a 5), if there is an obstacle, or if there is no drift (the middle of the Compass pictured on the current Environment Card is shaded red)." Yet, the above is printed under the "Move" subsection of "Phase I: Movement and Feeding" in the rules.

Am I answering my own question here??? I'm seeing it both ways, to be honest: I can stay put if I am blocked from drifting; and, I need to move if I am blocked from drifting.

I played for the first time last night and we played that if an amoeba is blocked from drifting it can stay put without the need to attempt to move it. This was advantageous at times when an amoeba died the previous round leaving foodstuff cubes to eat in the same space.

Thread: Re: Frugality and Substitution in a 6 player game

Andrew Davidson — 2008-03-23T13:15:16+00:00

If you're colour 6 then the options for feeding are:

1234 = standard
123 = just frugality
12333 = just substitution
12344 = another just substitution
1222 = both
1233 = the other outcome from both

Thread: Re: Newbie First Move Question

Asperamanca — 2008-02-26T15:58:21+00:00

marshalls_acct wrote:
Robert, my understanding of the rules was that scoring happened in Descending order which would cause scoring in your scenario to look like this:

1234000000000000
1230400000000000 - Player 4 goes first and scores 1
1200430000000000 - Player 3 goes second and scores 2
1020430000000000 - Player 2 goes third and scores 1
0120430000000000 - Player 1 goes last and scores 1

On the other hand, your example did show me that we were handling leapfrogging incorrectly. We were only leapfrogging when we landed on another player's marker on the scoring ladder instead of basically not counting their rung as they are passed (even though after re-reading, the instructions are clear on this). This may be enough to help make up the difference of starting in the last position.

Thanks for both of your help on this.

You might very well be correct - it's been a while I have played this game.

But I think that - between the two of us - we've got it figured out good!

Thread: Re: Newbie First Move Question

marshalls_acct — 2008-02-26T14:32:46+00:00

Robert, my understanding of the rules was that scoring happened in Descending order which would cause scoring in your scenario to look like this:

1234000000000000
1230400000000000 - Player 4 goes first and scores 1
1200430000000000 - Player 3 goes second and scores 2
1020430000000000 - Player 2 goes third and scores 1
0120430000000000 - Player 1 goes last and scores 1

On the other hand, your example did show me that we were handling leapfrogging incorrectly. We were only leapfrogging when we landed on another player's marker on the scoring ladder instead of basically not counting their rung as they are passed (even though after re-reading, the instructions are clear on this). This may be enough to help make up the difference of starting in the last position.

Thanks for both of your help on this.

Thread: Re: Newbie First Move Question

GSReis — 2008-02-26T04:37:28+00:00

Leapfrogging aside, if the player who starts on square 1 scores 1 point, do they move to square 5 (the first white square, as the player who starts on square 4 does) or do they move to square 2 (where the second to last player starts).
Square 2, if it's empty.

The reason that I ask is if they move to the square labeled two, a simple dice roll not only makes them last to choose genes, but also starts them in the game with a 3 point deficit.
On the other hand, that player moves and feeds first. That is usually more important than choosing genes first. There are genes for everyone, but not food.

Thread: Re: Newbie First Move Question

Asperamanca — 2008-02-25T21:55:10+00:00

Let's say we have the scoring track here, with players 1 to 4

1234OOOOOOOOOOOOO

If player 1 scores 1 point, the track would look like this:

O2341OOOOOOOOOOO

If player 2 then also scores 1 point, the track would look like this:

OO3412OOOOOOOOOO

Let's say for a change, player 3 scores 2 points.
Result:

OOO412O3OOOOOOOO

And finally, player 4 scores 1 point again:

OOOO1243OOOOOOOO

Hope that helps!

Thread: Newbie First Move Question

marshalls_acct — 2008-02-25T21:05:41+00:00

On your first turn, you roll dice to determine placement (in slots 1-4), the player that rolls the highest starts on 4 and the player that rolls the lowest starts on 1. So my question is this:

Leapfrogging aside, if the player who starts on square 1 scores 1 point, do they move to square 5 (the first white square, as the player who starts on square 4 does) or do they move to square 2 (where the second to last player starts).

The reason that I ask is if they move to the square labeled two, a simple dice roll not only makes them last to choose genes, but also starts them in the game with a 3 point deficit.

Thread: Re: Questions regarding cards

Great Dane — 2008-02-06T17:31:30+00:00

First of all - here is the official FAQ: http://doris-frank.de/UrsuppeFAQ.html
Omararnaout wrote:
1. If defense is used against struggle for survival and the defender wins the attacker starves, but what happens to the attacker if the defender wins when attacked in phase 5 by aggression
Nothing. He tried to take a bite of another amoeba, but missed.

2. What happens to the attaker whose opponent used an escape card and escaped? Does the attacker starve?Nothing happends, but he will starve if there isn't food in the space.

3. When using the tentacle can you take any cubes? (ex. yellow ameoba moves and takes 2 yellow and 1 red)Correct. Any 3 cubes.

4. If you have persistance and defense and you are attaked. The first attack works out and you lose. Now you want to use resistance.....what happens next? For example first the attacker got a 5 and you got a 4. You throw again and get a 6 and that is enogh for the attacker to starve?
Could the attaker do something more not to starve?
"resistance"? Assuming you mean 'persistance' the defender will simply disregard his first roll and make another (free) roll. In your example the 6 will beat the 5, so the attacker will starve (if the attack took place in the Feeding phase).

5. How is agression used in the 5th phase? In order to kill another amoeba whose amoeba has to die a natural death? Does the death have to take place in the same spot as the amoeba who is gonna kill another?
As the test says: "after any natural deaths, ONE amoeba from another player, which is in the same space as one of the player's won, mayy be killed." - Simply remove the one you attack and leave his remnants (2 Food of each color) in the space.

It always has to be within the same space - the amoebas are tiny and the spaces are vast!