Game: Weinhändler, die

Thread: Re: 2-player variant?

pdclose — 2008-07-20T15:10:33+00:00

My husband and I played this with the existing rules (for 3 players, taking out two colors) and found it played just fine as is. We might try taking out a third color to see what further shortening the game time would do, but otherwise I don't see why you can't play this without further changes.

Thread: Re: An uninspired and tiring math exercise.

lokides — 2008-05-26T01:42:23+00:00

Kobra1 wrote:
The overly long play time (1-3 hours), fiddly scoring, kingmaker situations and low bonus points didn’t help matters.

Whilst I appreciate the rest of your concerns about this game, this leapt out at me:

1-3 Hours!!!! Really????

Played twice last night with 3 players and got both games in about an hour and a half (with newbie rules explanation included)

I just can't see how this game can take as long as you describe...

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Verkisto — 2008-05-08T14:17:04+00:00

Space-Saving Technique: Print out the rules translation, and everything fits into a standard sized deck box.

Thread: My thoughts on Weinhandler

pezpimp — 2008-02-05T01:38:28+00:00

Weinhändler (2004)
Designer: Claudia Hely, Roman Pelek
Publisher: Mayfair Games, Amigo Spiele
Players: 3-5
Time: 45 minutes

Intro

Who doesn't love a nice class of wine or having a nice wine cellar. Well, until a few years ago, me, but that has nothing to do with the game. This is mainly an auction game, with a wine element as the scoring function, a nice theme in my opinion.

Gameplay

There are 63 wine bottle cards, each with four main elements: color, size, bid value and scoring value (stars). There are seven colors in all, each of which has 3 large, 3 medium and 3 small bottle that have the same characteristics. For example, there are 3 yellow large bottles with a bid value of 19 and a scoring value of 3. The small bottles have the lowest bidding value, 5 to 11, and the lowest scoring value , one. While the large bottles have the largest values, 19-25 for bidding and 3 for scoring.
Each player gets 5 cards to start and then 4 cards are placed in the center of the board as the items up for auction. Now you must use the bidding values of your bottles to bid on the items up for auction, the winner of the auction will get these center cards placed into their hand. Once you pass, you cannot renter the bidding, so to stay in, you must increase your bid by at least one card. However, if you do not win the bid, you are not left with nothing. The second highest bidder gets the cards from the highest bidder. The third highest gets the second highest card and so on. The lowest bidder has his cards placed into the auction of the next turn. There are always however four cards up for auction, so if the lowest bid is only of one, two or three cards, then additional cards are added from the draw deck in order to have four cards up for bid.
Now, the cards that you win or start with are also used as points. To do so, you must place them in your wine cellar, which is done after the auction, right before the next auction is to start. Once in the wine cellar, they cannot be taken back into your hand. You gain points based on the number of points (stars) on the card. So the larger bottles, which also serve as larger bidding values for the auctions, give the most points (3). You can also get bonuses based on having similar items in your cellar. If you place 3 bottles of the same color in a straight line or triangle in your cellar, you get one bonus point. If you place three bottles of the same color and size in the same fashion, you get 4 bonus points. To note however, is that your cellar has to look like a pyramid. It must have a maximum of 5 bottles at the base, 4 above those, 3 above those, 2 and 1. You also cannot move them around and they must be able to stay in place logically, you cannot place a bottle in an upper row unless there are 2 bottles supporting it below.
So you bid on what you want, watch what others want and have in their cellars and try to get the most points. One additional item is that there are 3 empty bottles, they have a score of zero and a bid of 0.2. They are used to hold a place for a future bottle to be placed in the cellar. If you do not want to take part in the auction, you may pass at the start, draw two cards (openly) and keep the lowest, but this way, you will win no ones cards, you are completely out for the round. Finally, after an auction, you must place cards in your cellar if you have more then 6 cards in your hand, since you can only start a round with 6 cards. After a round, the starting player is the person who bid the most last round.

Strategy/Comments

The main items that makes this game worth while, is the auction mechanism. Since you not only bid on the items in the center auction, but can win another persons bid, the fight is not always to have the most, but to bid right below the person whose cards you want. If you can bid right under two people who are having a bidding war for the center cards, then you may get a lot of cards for cheap. The problem is that once you pass, you cannot rebid, so if you were aiming for certain cards, but others keep bidding, you are left with the cards of whoever ends up right above you when the auction ends. This is where low cards and even empty bottles come in handy. They let you stay in the auction so that you can bail out at the right time without leaving you fate in the hands of others. Another good trick is to bid slowly slowly until everyone is out of cards (or out of cards they are willing to bid) and then play a large card to win the auction. This is risky though if you don't have many cards.
Also, since the cards are either used in auctions or in the cellar for points, you must decide what to bid and what to hold. Since you can see other peoples cellars, you may bid something that you may need in the future for your cellar, in hopes of getting it back in a future auction, but his is dangerous since you do not know what is in the players hands unless you have a great memory.
When cards come up that one player clearly needs, such as a large 3 point bottle of a certain color, of which one player already has two of those large bottles in his cellar, others will try and push up the bidding, in order to get more cards from that player. Yet be careful, since that may happen to you as well.

Conclusion

Simple, yet the mechanic of winning the next largest bid makes the auction very interesting since you don't always just bid for the center auction. Although mainly aiming for your own benefit, you can screw others over (often by accident). Fun and not too long. A nice filler (although maybe a little long to be called a filer) that has a fair amount of thought involved.

Rating: (7 / 10)

Thread: Re: question

morrigambist — 2008-01-22T02:36:32+00:00

The line of the German you quote translates approximately to "No gaps may be left between cards in the bottom row," which means that each card in the bottom row (but not necessarily in the higher ones) must be placed next to the one in the row to the left. It doesn't pertain to your question in English, for which the previous posting in this thread is an accurate answer.

Thread: Re: 2-player variant?

Guy Mullarkey — 2008-01-16T14:15:07+00:00

Hi there

No I don't know of one, although the game would need to be modified somewhat to be a successful 2 player game given a lot of the variability comes from the auction methodology which would become a bit redundant with two players - i.e. you would just end up trading cards with each other based on what you bid.

I quite enjoy two player Bohnanza - and the 2 player variant is a fun game that doesn't become less enjoyable even though the trading element is removed - this could be a possibility if you haven't tried before

Cheers, Guy

Thread: Die Weinhandler – A Simple Review

Guy Mullarkey — 2008-01-07T08:13:53+00:00

Weinhandler was a game that had always fascinated me on the shelf at the local games store.

As a keen wine buff, any game that was related to wine had some appeal, and I had hoped that this game could be rolled out when I was drinking wine with friends at home as something light hearted to play on such an occasion

Thus far, the game has not come off the shelf as much as I had hoped, but I have played enough to offer a simple review for prospective purchasers.

First and foremost, if you are not a fan of auction games like this one and others (e.g. Modern Art) then this one is not for you

Also, if you have no interest in wine, then I would also give this one a miss as a lot of the fun in the game is in the collecting and cellaring of [similar] fine wines –

I wouldn’t get a lot of pleasure out of this at all if I weren’t into wine

The essential mechanics of the game are as follows:

• One has a hand of wine cards that one can keep to cellar, or use as bidding currency (better wines are worth more in terms of bidding value)
• Each turn there are four wine cards up for auction which one bids for using the cards in ones hand
• If one doesn’t bid, one can draw two cards and keep the one of the lowest value
• One must cellar if ones card hand exceeds 12.
• One is aiming to collect similar bottle shapes and types to maximize returns by having these grouped correctly in ones cellar

The ultimate winner will have the highest value wines in his/her cellar, and will have the largest number of similar wine types and bottle shapes, each of which earn bonus points for the player at games end

The auction method is such that if one has the highest bid, one gets the cards in the middle of the table, the second highest bidder gets the highest bidders cards etc.

Therefore it is crucial to watch what cards other players are bidding, as in the end one may be more interested in other auction participants’ cards than in the original offer!

Overall the game is a bit of lighthearted fun, and isn’t too complicated provided players can do some simple math in their heads, or one can nominate someone to assist with auction tallying if people get into trouble with their calculations.

To me, the ideal time for this game is playing with friends drinking a nice bottle or two of good wine, such that one can intersperse real world wine discussion and related conversation into the game, as otherwise the game may get a little mundane.

One word of warning with this scenario is to restrict wine consumption to a few bottles as otherwise mechanics and calculations may become a little overwhelming for some!

Overall I prefer Modern Art in my collection as far as auction games go, but Die Weinhandler certainly has its place at the right time.

Thread: 2-player variant?

greengow — 2007-12-27T14:39:15+00:00

Does anyone know a 2-player variant for this?

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SwedeLad — 2007-04-26T02:23:14+00:00

The small, plastic bottles and box cover.

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SwedeLad — 2007-04-25T23:08:47+00:00

Bottle components in size-relation to an average hand.

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samoan_jo — 2007-03-24T13:32:58+00:00

'Die Weinhändler' - Amigo - German box back

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Verkisto — 2007-03-17T05:10:11+00:00

Close-up of the back image of the cards.

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Verkisto — 2007-03-17T05:09:44+00:00

Sample suit from the game.

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dougadamsau — 2007-01-19T01:24:17+00:00

Box cover - back

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dougadamsau — 2007-01-19T01:23:49+00:00

Contents

Thread: Re: Pass without bidding any card

SatanicEssence — 2006-10-30T06:26:13+00:00

It should also be noted that when a player passes, instead of bidding, that s/he draws the top two cards from the draw deck and keeps the lower valued card. Enjoy!

Thread: Re: An uninspired and tiring math exercise.

SatanicEssence — 2006-10-30T06:16:06+00:00

A player may pass immediately, in which case he can draw 2 cards from the draw deck, and keep whichever one he chooses

Actually, if a player passes, s/he draws two cards and keeps the lower valued card. This can sometimes feel unfair. Especially if two people pass in a row, and one gets a low card while the other gets a high card. But then again, it could be the shape/color card you need for your cellar.

Bottles are scored based on the number of stars on them, with special bonus conditions such as 1 additional point for 3 of the same colour cards in a row, or 4 points for 3 of the same bottles and colours in a row.

There is a 1 point bonus for 3 different bottles of the same color. All three of the bottles must be different from each other, not just "not the same shape". 4 points is givin for 3 bottles of the same shape and color. This points more emphasis on getting the bottles you need, cause it's a larger bonus than just quickly and easily getting the same color. Hope that helps.

Thread: Re: Do overlapping triplets count for bonus scoring?

avmartin — 2006-04-10T17:58:24+00:00

You're talking about the scoring on the last page of the German rules (back of the rulebook), correct?

In the example shown, there are only two triplets formed by playing the blue bottle. Three of the same bottle horizontally on the second level, and the upside down triangle bottom left.

Oh..I see what you're talking about. The upside down one does not score because it is not a valid triplett. Tripletts need to be either all the same size bottle, or all 3 different sized bottles.

So:
16-16-16 across is all the same, 4 points.
9-16-25 (trangle) is all 3 different, = 1 point.
16-16-25 is 2 the same, 1 different = 0 points.

Hope this helps.

Thread: Do overlapping triplets count for bonus scoring?

copycat — 2006-04-08T19:08:59+00:00

From Craig Berg's translation:

It is possible to place a card and obtain several color triplets at once and thus get bonus points several times.

In the last scoring example, placing the blue bottle on the second row creates three triplets: a 4-point horizontal triplet and two overlapping 1-point triangle triplets. I thought that all three should score because there's nothing in the preceeding rules that says they shouldn't, but it turns out that the upside down triangle triplet does not score. My only explanation is that there's an implied rule that says: Bottles that were _already_ in the cellar can only contribute to one triplet at a time (when a new bottle is placed). It's only the newly placed bottle that can be part of overlapping triplets.

Are the German rules more specific about this point?

Thread: Re: An uninspired and tiring math exercise.

Kobra1 — 2006-02-09T16:21:30+00:00

Hehe, oops. Typo!

Thread: Re: An uninspired and tiring math exercise.

MisterCranky — 2006-02-09T06:04:01+00:00

Kobra1 wrote:
While pasted on, I like the theme of this game. The wonderfully illustrated, colourful win bottles are pleasing to look at.

You don't mention the color scheme of the lose bottles. How are they? Are there any draw bottles? I think it's odd that the game only supplies bottles to the winners. But at least they're colorful.

Thread: An uninspired and tiring math exercise.

Kobra1 — 2006-02-08T06:08:39+00:00

Die Weinhandler

Components (Bits):

Like most Amigo games, the quality of this production is top end. The box is wonderful with great artwork, the cards are very tiny but of amazingly high quality with great illustrations. The coins are thick and well printed.

Setup and Rules:

The rules for this game are decent, but pretty vague in describing some rule ambiguities. I don’t feel scoring was adequately explained, and most people had a tremendous amount of questions after reading the rules. Each player is dealt a hand of 5 cards, the deck is placed in the middle of the table and 4 cards are flipped over to form the bidding row. Setup is fast and simple.

Theme:

While pasted on, I like the theme of this game. The wonderfully illustrated, colourful wine bottles are pleasing to look at. The back of the cards are very well done. Everything is pretty relaxing and enjoyable, and you do get the feeling of collecting wines. Unfortunately the game just doesn’t hold up to the quality of the theme.

Game Play:

This is a bidding and set collection game, with a good bit of hand management thrown in. The objective of the game is to build your pyramid of win, scoring points as you go along with bonus points for particular formats. To start off, players offer up bottles from their hand to “Bid” for the 4 display cards for sale. A player may pass immediately, in which case he can draw 2 cards from the draw deck, and keep whichever one he chooses. Once a bid is placed, it cannot be removed or rescinded, the value of a bid is determined by the number on the card, and this value must be “Declared” to all players when the bid is made. The next player can raise the bid, or bid under if he wants to try and win the highest bidders bid. Basically this system is slightly similar to the bidding system in “Money”, except Money has a superior method of dispersal and is a blind system. In Die Weinhandler, the highest bidder gets the display cards, the second highest gets the highest bidders cards, and so on.. The last person places their bid onto the face up bid stack and replenishes it as necessary back up to 4 cards. Now players, one at a time, add to their wine cellars (Pyramids) to get their hands down to 6 cards maximum. Scoring is done as placement is made, and continues around the table. Bottles are scored based on the number of stars on them, with special bonus conditions such as 1 additional point for 3 of the same colour cards in a row, or 4 points for 3 of the same bottles and colours in a row. After which time, the next round begins anew, and is repeated, over and over. When the deck is depleted, one more round is completed, and the final scoring is tabulated.

Depth and Tactics:

There really isn’t much to this game, it is about winning the bids you need, collecting sets of bottles, and placing them in such a way to score the most points. The problem here is that often it is just too tedious to try and hold out for a specific set of bottles, and bidding feels constrained. If I want the bid of a specific player instead of the offered wines, then I must ensure I bid “Just Under” that player to win his bid. This mechanism isn’t very compelling to me, and feels needlessly convoluted, whereas in “Money”, the high bidder can select which cards he wants to take, etc. This game forces restrictions that sometimes feel too constrained, and needlessly complex. The tiny bonuses aren’t worth tying up your hand for, it is better to score your pyramid and rapidly move on to the next one. There is a pretty high kingmaker situation in this game. Once a player gets sufficiently ahead, there is little you can do to prevent them from winning the game. I just can’t find any tactics or strategies in this game that excite me, it all feels forced, processional, and mundane.

Summary:

I have several issues with this game. The bidding is needlessly slow and complex, requiring constant adding and re-adding of double digit numbers, making it a tedious math exercise just to finish each bidding round. The exchange process is fairly difficult to predict, and seems far more random than the system in “Money”. Die Weinhandler feels soulless, mechanical and overly constrained in the way it plays. The overly long play time (1-3 hours), fiddly scoring, kingmaker situations and low bonus points didn’t help matters. Die Weinhandler feels like a mishmash of concepts ripped from games like Money, Oh Pharaoh and Katzenjammer Blues, and unfortunately it is much inferior to those titles. If you want a good pyramid game with similar concepts, go pick up a copy of Oh Pharaoh instead of this one. Given all of its problems and lack of fun, I cannot recommend this game.

Thread: Re: Confusion issue.

Kobra1 — 2006-01-28T07:13:26+00:00

That clears it up perfectly for me.. Without the illustrations and real english manual, it sure was a pain to try and figure it out.

I'm still worried about the overly complicated math involved with bidding.. They could have easily used cards numbered 1-9 or something, similar to Katzenjammer as a method, and eliminated the incessant adding.

Thread: Re: Confusion issue.

avmartin — 2006-01-28T06:58:15+00:00

I'm not sure I quite get what you are saying, but let me see if I can make the method of scoring clearer.

First, you always score the bottle score when you play the bottle.

Next you score any bonus trios that are made as a result of the played card.

So, if playing a blue card on the second level created a scoring triangle with 2 cards on the first level, then THAT trio of bonus points is also scored. Probably easiest for you to diagram out the situation, and then show each card played in the digram. I believe, however, that the German rules have an excellent example of how playing a single card can cause multiple scoring bonuses.

Note however, that if your bottom row is full, NO play will enable you to score horizontal bonus points since your new play will not ever creat a horizontal on row 1. In the following, if you played card A, it could cause a scoring with B-C if it were of the appropriate type, but nothing else in row 1 is possible with this card.

A
B C D E F G

Andrew

Thread: Confusion issue.

Kobra1 — 2006-01-28T04:16:41+00:00

This game didn't go over well on the first session mostly due to the translated rules not clearing up ambiguities..

My question is, say for example someone plays 5 blue bottles on the first row, and scores them via their stars, and scores the bonus for the ones 3 in a row.

Now on the next row, that same person on the next turn around the game places 2 more blue bottles, and scores them, can they still score the horizontal with the ones on the first row? Or are once they scored, they aren't allowed to be factored anymore?

The instructions seemed extremely vague on all of this scoring method, at one point they said once scored they cannot be scored again. Then in another area it says you can place them horizontally and score them, but it doesn't make it clear if these are the NEW ones, or new combined with existing.

I hope I explained it well enough to get an answer.. 7 of us here tonight really couldn't adequately digest the concept of this game so we ended up quitting and playing Oh Pharoah instead. Several abortive attempts to enjoy this game already, mostly the horrible endless math exercise every bid annoyed...

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Kobra1 — 2006-01-17T03:29:08+00:00

Back of the box

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Kobra1 — 2006-01-14T00:53:31+00:00

Unique angled closeup of the components.

Thread: Re: Pass without bidding any card

crazyjack — 2005-09-08T21:21:22+00:00

In order to receive cards from another bidder during the Exchange Phase, a player must bid at least once during the Bid Phase. Therefore when a player takes a card from the top of the deck instead of bidding he/she forgoes the Exchange Phase. Instead, the cards bid by the lowest bidder are set aside to form the Tableau for the next round.

There is no limit per round to the number of players who can chose to take a card rather than bid. In fact, all the players can choose not to bid for the round - although the last player would probably rather grab the Tableau by bidding a 1 point card & make some quick points from doing so.

Thread: Pass without bidding any card

didier_adasoc — 2005-09-08T09:22:21+00:00

When a player fully passes (without bidding any card), it takes one out of the two first card of drawing deck

But will he takes the cards bidded by an other player or not ?

Is a second player allowed to fully pass when a previous player did it ?

Thread: Re: question

Tycho — 2005-06-27T12:03:57+00:00

If I've understood the question correctly, the answer is No: the 5-card row does not need to be complete before you begin the 4-card row, provided that each card above rests on two below.

For example
[c]
x x
x x[/c] is prohibited but
[c]
x x
x x x[/c] is allowed

Thread: question

robe62 — 2005-06-27T08:41:55+00:00

Rules say:
in der untersten ebene durfen keine lucken zwischen den karten bleiben.
That is:i must complete the 5 level before begin level 4 or i have to play cards in a row?

Thanks

Thread: Session Report

gschloesser — 2004-12-08T18:26:01+00:00

One of the better games to emerge from the Essen Spiele Faire in 2003 was Santiago from the new design team of Claudia Hely & Roman Pelek. The game garnered several nominations for various awards and was widely applauded by the gaming community.

This year’s Essen saw the couple release Die Weinhändler, a small card game that is not to be confused with the less-than-stellar Dominique Ehrhard release from 2000. I purchased this new release mainly because of the theme. You see, my wife really enjoys wine, so I figured she would be attracted to the game on this basis alone.

When I read the rules a bit later, I was very surprised to learn that I had actually play-tested the game back in April at the Gathering of Friends! Even though the game needed a bit of tweaking at that time, I had enjoyed the experience, so I was looking forward to playing the finished product. I was not disappointed.

Players represent wine collectors / traders attempting to gather valuable collections to store in their cellars. This is accomplished through a series of bids, wherein players offer their existing bottles as enticements to secure other, more valuable wines for their collection. The player who is able to amass and properly display their collection will be admired by wine connoisseurs from around the globe.

The game is comprised of a deck of cards depicting bottles of wine of different varieties and vintage. Wine fans will enjoy the numerous varieties, including Merlot, Portugieser, Dornfelder, Cabernet Sauvignon, Chardonnay and more. Each variety is subdivided into three vintages, which can also be differentiated by the shape of the bottles. The wine will be rated with 1 – 3 stars, depending upon its age. Of course, the older the wine, the more valuable (3 stars) it is. Each card also depicts a numerical value, which increases with the age of the wine. Included in the mix are a handful of empty bottles, which carry no value, but do serve an important function. Gold tokens to track one’s wealth complete the game’s components.

To begin the game, each player receives five cards, and another four are dealt face-up to the table. The game then follows the following sequence of play:

Bidding Round. This is an intriguing part of the game, and the mechanism borrows heavily from Reiner Knizia’s Money. Fortunately, at least for me, Die Weinhändler is much more exciting and interesting than Money, a game I always found to be very dull.

The start player either offers one or more wine bottles for trade, or passes. In clockwise order, players must either offer bottles whose total differ from previous bids, or pass.
This means players can make offers which are actually LESS than previous offers. The key is that each offer must be DIFFERENT than previous offers. The bidding continues until all players have passed, so players are free to supplement their previous offers when it is once again their turn to bid. If a player passes without offering ANY cards, he may take two cards from the deck, keep one and discard the other.

Wine Exchange. Once all players have passed, the player who offered the greatest value of wine receives the four cards from the display. The player with the second-highest offer receives the cards offered by the highest bidder. Likewise, the player with the third-highest bid receives the cards offered by the second-highest bidder. This process continues, with each player receiving the cards offered by the player who was immediately higher than them on the bid offer. The cards offered by the low man on the totem poll are placed into the face-up display.

Place Cards in Wine Display. Players holding more than six cards MUST place cards into their display. Basically, players are forming pyramids with their wine bottles. The bottom row can contain no more than five bottles, and logical pyramid building rules must be followed (we’re talking physics here!). Once a bottle is placed, it cannot be moved. Usually, it behooves a player to hold bottles in his hand until he is forced to place them.

As bottles are placed into one’s pyramid display, money is earned. Each wine bottle placed earns money immediately. Each bottle earns money equal to the number of stars depicted upon it (1 – 3). Further, the idea is to group the bottles by variety and vintage. Players will receive an addition 4 bonus points if they group three identical bottles of the same variety together, or 1 point if they group three different bottles of the same variety together. Such groupings can be horizontal or diagonal.

Empty bottles do not score points when placed, but they can be covered by full bottles later during the game. Thus, they can be used to temporarily occupy spaces and allow the pyramid to grow, and reduce one’s hand when the limit of six is exceeded.

Fill-up Display. The face-up display is then re-filled to four cards. Remember, the cards bid by the lowest bidder in the round are placed into the display, so often only a few cards must be revealed from the deck in order to fill the display. The player who offered the highest bid during the round now becomes the start player for the next round.

When the deck depletes, one more round is played. Players add all of their cards they can to their pyramid and the corresponding points are earned. The player with the greatest wealth emerges victorious and wins the admiration of his peers.

The bidding and placement mechanisms really make this game. In order to acquire bottles you need, you must offer bottles from your current in-hand collection. This often requires you to switch your collection strategies during the course of the game when the opportunity arises to acquire even more valuable bottles and complete sets. During each bidding round, you are constantly forced to reevaluate your bidding, making touch choices on what is required in order to maintain the collection you desire. Of course, this may well change with each new card offered by an opponent during the bidding. Often, you find yourself coveting a particular set of bottles, and then struggling to offer the correct numerical value of bottles in order to insure that you can acquire those cards. For example, if I desire to acquire the cards offered by Jim, then I must make sure I bid an amount less than Jim … but close enough to Jim’s offer so that no other players squeezes in between us and scoops his bottles. This often requires me to offer bottles that I really didn’t want to lose. There are constant tough, agonizing choices throughout each bidding round.

Yes, it is possible to sometimes not have the cards you need in order to make an offer which will gain you the bottles you covet. Hey, that happens. If you could always acquire exactly what you need, what fun would that be? Part of the game’s fun is making do with the resources (bottles) you have, and trying to better your position for future bids.

Since players can only hold up to six cards in their hands, they are often forced to play cards into their pyramid display before they are truly ready. This forces yet more interesting and touch choices on the players.

I found the game to be tense and filled with those tough choices. I was thoroughly engaged throughout, and felt it was a true challenge and struggle to achieve my objectives. Although I ultimately earned the victory, this was no cake-walk. There were numerous times during the game that I felt I was doomed, and had to really plan properly to pull myself back into contention. For me, that is one of the marks of a good, engaging game. Just like a good glass of wine, Die Weinhändler is full-bodied and satisfies the palate.

Geoff, John, Jim and I stepped into the roles of wine connoisseurs, offering and trading wine in order to build the most impressive collections. The bidding rounds were tough, as players agonized over what they should offer and tried to secure the bottles they coveted for their collections. Eventually, I managed to build the most impressive collection and earn the victory.

Finals: Greg 45, Geoff 39, John 38, Jim 30

Ratings: Jim 7.5, Greg 7, Geoff 6.5, John 6

Thread: Preview and Impressions

gschloesser — 2004-12-08T02:04:30+00:00

Thread: Re:Rule Question: Bidding and Undercutting

Roman Pelek — 2004-11-04T06:09:09+00:00

Yes, this is intentional - if you want to be sure to have the highest bid, you have to stay in (and bid at least one card) until all other players have passed.

This increases the amount of cards another player might get from the highest bidder und the need to judge whether other players could be content with getting the highest bid instead of the four cards in the middle.

There's a bit more estimating other players' intentions in the game this way and the need to consider whether not only to bid high but also to offer attractive cards for other players to keep them from bidding higher even if you have or want to pass as leader.

Thread: Rule Question: Bidding and Undercutting

Mitch37 — 2004-11-04T05:39:38+00:00

Three players: Peter, Paul and Mary.
After the first round of bids in the auction phase (Peter starts):
Peter - 5
Paul - 15
Mary - 10 (undercutting Paul)

In the second round of bids, Peter passes.
Now, according to my reading of the rules, if Paul passes, Mary could raise her bid to be the new leader, and Paul could NOT raise again because he already passed. He would have to put in a token bid in order to prevent this possibility from Mary.

Is this intentional? Does the leader need to raise if he hasn't been outbid?