Game: Under the Shadow of the Dragon

Thread: Re: Can you ever try a 2nd Heroic Quest or pick up a 2nd Scroll?

KrudgeWelder — 2008-11-22T23:26:24+00:00

I know I'm replying to a really old thread but I haven't seen this discussed anywhere else and it relates to what is being talked about.

With the regular quests, I still play with the combined rule that a player can go to the King and request any one quest. Once you do so, it is yours forever amen. HOWEVER, I also include a group quest. The quest deck is shuffled and the top one turned over. It's like this is the King's most wanted. ALL players may go after this one no matter where they are. Once someone claims the first level of this quest, they get it without having to go to the king.

Clarifications to this are:

If you have a quest of your own and you have not gained any tiles related to it, you may still go after the group quest as well.

If you gain a tile for the group quest and you have a personal quest, your personal quest is reshuffled back into the quest stack.

If you gain a tile for you personal quest you may no longer attempt the group quest.

Basically it helps speed up the play time and gives people a few more options. If you decide to request a quest from the king early in the game and that tile is just not turning up (and the mice and mystic are also AWOL), you have a back door option.

It also adds a small level of competition of players clambering to get to the same tiles before anyone else, rather than everyone pretty much leaving each other alone to do their own thing.

If you aren't playing the combined game and have just the basic, this is a much better option rather than being randomly dealt something and being stuck with an unbeatable quest.

Thread: Re: Multiple dragon possibilities?

squash — 2008-10-02T01:41:35+00:00

There are 4 dragons, each with different strengths.

Thread: Re: Multiple dragon possibilities?

Schroinger — 2008-10-02T01:30:10+00:00

There are some Dragons, I don't remember if they are three but sure more than two, and you select randomly the one that you'll fight.

Something similar as the Nameless...

Thread: Multiple dragon possibilities?

ebridge — 2008-10-01T21:47:06+00:00

Hi there,

I thought I read somewhere that there are different powered/colored dragons, and that one is selected randomly for each game. Is this true, or is it always the same dragon? I'm having a hard time finding it in the rules. Thanks.

Thread: Re: Question about the Lyre

rnijholt — 2008-09-29T19:05:48+00:00

I'm not sure how you would get to -6... since the Lyre has a +1 magic bonus in magic combat against normal creatures, -2 might be more logical.

However, one of the three magic artifacts (in your example: the Lyre) is only needed for you to be able to attack the dragon at all. That is its only effect: it allows you to attack the dragon. There are no plus or minus points from the magic artifact itself during your dragon fight.

As to the battle itself: you attack any dragon always at -3 of whichever skill you are using to attack it with. (If you are using the Lyre, you must use magic combat against the dragon.)

The rules state: "The bearer may attack the Dragon with a magic combat modifier of -3, but may attack all other creatures with a magic combat modifier of +1." In other words: you get -3 magic against the dragon, but +1 magic against other creatures.

Thread: Question about the Lyre

Schroinger — 2008-09-28T21:47:39+00:00

Since most or all of the Dragons causes a -3 in Magic, which is the effect of a battle against a Dragon with the Lyre? Does it mean that the character has to fight with -6 Magic, or does it mean that it is a -3 Magic battle?

Thread: Crónica en español :: 26/09/2008

Schroinger — 2008-09-28T11:21:50+00:00

Nadie puede decir a ciencia cierta hasta dónde la historia es verídica y qué parte de ella es producto de la euforia popular y la necesidad de tener una esperanza. Lo que sí queda claro es que canciones y leyendas hablan de tiempos oscuros y de cómo fueron superados gracias al regreso de los héroes.

La época de paz ha quedado atrás y muchos creen que el despertar del Dragón, dormido desde siempre, ha supuesto la inyección de ímpetu que necesitaban las fuerzas del mal para reanimarse. La Sombra, que se suponía derrotada para algunos y que otros dudaban incluso sobre su existencia, ha empezado a adquirir fuerza y sus esbirros han vuelto a poblar el Reino.

En este mutualismo del mal, ambas deben subsistir para consolidar su hegemonía. La gente ha empezado a perder el optimismo y sólo los más antiguos del lugar albergan una ilusión: ¿Volverán de nuevo los campeones para evitar esta desgracia?

Under de Shadow of the Dragon está basado en el sistema de Return of the Heroes y puede ser utilizado como un juego para dos, o bien como expansión de este último, que es el caso que se comenta.

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Sobre las mecánicas del juego base, compartidas aquí también, se puede echar un vistazo a esta crónica para hacerse una idea. Baste por ahora señalar que, como juego de aventuras, principalmente de lo que se trata es de viajar por el tablero luchando contra las más diversas criaturas y cumpliendo distintas misiones, de menor y mayor envergadura, con el objetivo de desarrollar a nuestro personaje y conseguir valiosos objetos y artefactos para afrontar el reto final.

La diferencia radica en que ahora es posible decidir entre dos villanos: El Innombrable o el Dragón, cuyo reto final se basa fundamentalmente en la Magia. Caído uno, las fuerzas del mal se resentirán y, cual efecto dominó, la derrota arrastrará también el fin de su contraparte.

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Guarida del Dragón.

Eso sí, para poder ir tras el Dragón es necesario adquirir una de las armas que permiten combatirlo, para lo que se requiere realizar una misión de búsqueda que nos lleve a alguna de ellas.

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Algunas de las tarjetas de misión que permiten conseguir armas contra el Dragón

De igual forma, sólo es posible batirse con la Sombra si se adquiere una de las gema mágicas sólo alcanzables a través de la realización de grandes cometidos.

Aparte de las particularidades recién mencionadas Under the Shadow of the Dragon incluye muchas otras novedades, a saber:

a) Nuevas losetas de terreno, que presentan efectos diversos, como por ejemplo el Laberinto, que al entrar no se sabe si nos enfrentaremos al Minotauro, si nos perderemos dentro de sus paredes, o si alcanzaremos alguna salida; el Desierto, que resta un punto de vida por cada turno que permanezcamos allí, y la Ciudad de los Magos, donde es necesario moverse entre portales de energía y existe un mercado de objetos fantásticos, entre otros.

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El Laberinto, el Desierto y la Ciudad de los Magos.

b) Nuevos personajes, que en realidad no representan gran novedad comparados con los del juego original.

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Algunos de los nuevos personajes.

c) Nuevos contadores de encuentros y misiones, algunos de los cuales introducen algunas variantes. Por ejemplo, existen las losetas de los ayudantes del Dragón, que al salir producen efectos negativos, como descartar artefactos del mercado, u obligar al pago de oro, entre otras cosas.

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Todas estas incorporaciones suponen sin duda mejoras que agregan muchísimas variantes y diversión, pero también representan la adición de más tiempo de juego, que para algunos puede ser demasiado. Por otro lado, al ser el mapa más grande, las distancias se hacen mayores y la necesidad de tener alto puntaje de movimiento se hace imperiosa.

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El enorme tablero compuesto por el juego original y esta expansión.

Por otro lado, si se utiliza Under the Shadow of the Dragon junto con el juego base con pocos jugadores, diría que con cuatro o menos, el tablero puede hacerse demasiado grande, al punto de que los objetos pueden tardar en aparecer o del todo nunca presentarse, lo que puede ser frustrante. Por ejemplo, imaginemos que se necesita mejorar en magia y nunca aparece el personaje apto para el entrenamiento, o que se hace imperioso subir el puntaje de movimiento y no sale la tienda de carretas. En este sentido, me parece que serían necesarios cinco o seis jugadores para que exista una dinámina de refrescamiento del tablero idónea.

Obviamente, con dos jugadores también es recomendable utilizar esta expansión, pero como juego independiente.

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Disposición para dos jugadores, compuesta sólo por las losetas de Under the Shadow of the Dragon.

Nuestra partida dio inicio no sin ciertos titubeos, pues añadimos la expansión sin haberla estudiado realmente, pensando que nuestro conocimiento del juego original sería suficiente, lo cual se probó erróneo. Así, pasamos buena parte del juego repasando reglas e interpretando, lo que supuso un retraso considerable.

En cuanto al juego en sí, debe decirse que el personaje Anthrax Spellsinger entró haciéndose rápidamente con una misión para obtener un arma en contra del Dragón, del que ya habían salido los contadores respectivos. Sin embargo, su poca fortaleza y capacidad de movimiento le hizo perder mucho tiempo viajando entre su base y los lugares que debía visitar para completar su campaña, pues dado que tiene sólo dos puntos de vida con alguna frecuencia quedaba al borde de la muerte, hasta que efectivamente una serie de acontecimientos desafortunados le hicieron perder la vida.

Luego de este traspié parecía que la partida estaba perdida para él. Sin embargo, cambiarían su fortuna una serie de encuentros con buen pie, unidos con la suerte de que la loseta de la tienda de carretas apareció justo cuando estaba por allí con el dinero suficiente, lo que le permitió subir la capacidad de movimiento a cinco. Dada la grandeza del mapa, el contar con velocidad es vital para llegar a los encuentros rápidamente y para tener la capacidad de ir a los lugares de curación de forma expedita.

De esta forma, pudo de nuevo hacerse con una misión para adquirir un arma en contra del Dragón, cuyos contadores habían salido ya también, y consiguió una armadura que le añadiría un punto de vida, lo que resultaría fundamental de cara al término de la partida. Además, se hizo con una misión alternativa con el objetivo de conseguir la gema que le permitiría luchar contra la Sombra. Cabe recordar, que si bien es factible tener dos misiones, sólo se puede completar una, por lo que posteriormente este personaje tuvo que decantarse entre ellas, como se verá.

Por su parte, Frieda Soulsoother empezó con una serie de malas tiradas de dados que la retrasaron en su crecimiento, aunque finalmente se encaminó y logró desarrollarse debidamente. Tomó una misión cuyo cumplimiento le permitiría pelear con la Sombra.

Finalmente, Agin Stormblade fue el jugador más regular. Rápidamente este personaje estaba a tope y dedicó varios turnos a completar sus habilidades al máximo, lo que le supuso, quizás, perder su ventaja con respecto a los otros jugadores.

Al final de la partida Agin y Frieda habían completado la misión que les permitía luchar contra el Innombrable, y Anthrax había hecho lo propio, pero para enfrentarse al Dragón. Pese a los esfuerzos de todos por mejorar el personaje, lo cierto es que la disposición del juego, unida al número de jugadores, hicieron que muchos contadores vitales nunca aparecieran, como las tiendas, lo que significaba que, pese a estar calificados, la falta de armamento los hacía vulnerables en el reto final.

No obstante lo anterior, nadie estaba dispuesto a esperar y todos menos Agin parecían de acuerdo a jugar su suerte a una única carta. De esta forma, a partir de ese momento comenzaría una carrera cuyo ganador sería el primero que llegara al reto final.

Fue Frieda la primera en alcanzarlo, pero para su mala fortuna el villano de turno tenía tantas vidas como ella y le consumía un punto por ronda, por lo que su destrucción se le hizo imposible y sucumbió en el intento.

Esto permitió que Anthrax probara su suerte contra el Dragón Esqueleto, mucho más accesible que la Sombra. Antes hubo una interpretación dudosa, en el sentido de que la carta de este villano señala que se le debe restar tres puntos de Magia al retador, y el arma utilizada, la Lira, decía que su detentor lucharía la batalla final con un menos tres de Magia. Esto daba pie para entender, como finalmente se hizo, que su efecto era reducir la capacidad mágica a menos tres, para lo bueno y para lo malo, y no constituirse a su vez en un nuevo sustractor, lo que hubiese significado restar seis puntos de Magia y quedar con sólo uno, pues el personaje en cuestión se presentó al reto con siete. Como el resultado de uno es imposible de ser alcanzado con dos dados, esto hubiese significado la pérdida automática del duelo.

Aún así, y aunque el desafío era sustancialmente menor al que representaba la Sombra, el combate no era fácil. Había que conseguir un cuatro o menos cuatro veces con dos dados a elegir entre cinco, y sólo se podía fallar dos veces, pues la tercera significaba el final. El duelo a la postre tuvo un término de infarto, pues la última tirada significaba la victoria o la muerte, lo que hubiese equivalido, a estas alturas del juego, a la eliminación. Esta vez, el Dragón no viviría para contarlo.

Caído uno de los pilares del mal, las fuerzas que los respaldaban empezaron su retroceso. Si la leyenda es cierta no lo sabremos nunca, pero lo que sí es verdad es que ahora mismo el regreso de los héroes significó el fin de la era oscura... hasta la próxima partida...

Originalmente publicado en Juegos de Mesa Costa Rica.

Una lista con todas las contribuciones hechas en ese sitio web puede verse aquí.

Imágenes tomadas de BoardGameGeek.

Thread: Re: Questions on Character Skills

Werbaer — 2008-08-16T06:15:51+00:00

jrescan wrote:
I can't find where on the manual those skills are explained in detail.
In the german rules, it's in the glossary under "Helden" (heroes).

- Paladin can try to heal if he does no "action". That is, he may move (including seaching for a hidden path), but he cannot heal if he fights ot does something else. He rolls one die.

- Halfling rolls one die, otherwise the "1-3" wouldn't work (two dice have a minimum of 2)

- Orc can only cash in experience cubes at the moment he gets them, not later.

- Blue tasks are removed from the game after finished.

Thread: Questions on Character Skills

jrescan — 2008-08-16T01:11:30+00:00

I can't find where on the manual those skills are explained in detail. Particularily, I have these questions:

- Paladin skill can be used only by resting (waiting a turn without move)?
- Should I roll 1 or 2 die for the paladin and halfling to test the trial and get the benefit from the skill?
- On the Orc, should I do it anytime on my turn to exchange EC for gold or I need to rest and wait 1 turn?

By the way, a general question on blue tasks, should these be removed from game after fullfilled or go back to the bag?

Thanks

Thread: Re: Would y'all consider this a standalone game before an expansion, or vice-versa?

a2greg — 2008-06-30T14:04:07+00:00

Isaac, the following is directly from the game's rules. I'll let the game's author answer your question (which isn't any fun but probably necessary):

A WORD FROM THE AUTHOR
After Return of the Heroes had become such a huge, unexpected success, I had to lean back and take a few deep breaths before embarking on the convention and shop demo game route. While doing this, I learned that players everywhere were clamoring for an expansion set! Since I had envisioned Return of the Heroes to have a total of 25 region maps in the first place, it was natural to add the missing nine maps to the new set.

So I began the process of revising these region maps. While this took me some time, it did not really add anything new to the game. At this time, however, the publisher suggested not only putting together an expansion set but also a game aimed at two players only. Thus, the expansion set became a two-player game and an expansion set for Return of the Heroes. I‘d have never thought of this myself! Then again, I soon found the idea quite intriguing.

I created five new heroes (three of them made it into the final game) and started playtesting. The two-player version came first. After about ten games, the basic outline had emerged and I began testing the new game as an expansion to the original game. It was at this point that the first real problems emerged. Changes needed to be made, requiring additional playtests. Again, I did these with the two-player version first and with the combination of original game and expansion set, leading to even more changes and yet another set of playtests, and so on, and so on. Finally, I was able to present the finished game to the publisher.

Thread: Re: Would y'all consider this a standalone game before an expansion, or vice-versa?

LoneCleric — 2008-06-28T04:07:13+00:00

Verkisto wrote:
So, which is it? Standalone or expansion?
Interestingly enough, that question above and the one used as the thread title could get different answers from me.

For one thing, the game is definitely a stand-alone, compatible product. Calling it an expansion is like saying that Dvonn is an expansion to Gipf. (What's that? I'm pushing it? Yeah, maybe. Let's say it'd be like saying that "Dungeoneer: Lair of the Wererat" is an expansion to "Dungeoneer: Tomb of the Lich Lord". They're actually 2 games with the same rules that you can mix together.) For weeks I've kept a note about asking for a correction to the game's description & classification. Think I'll do that now.

But if you're asking, "would you consider it a standalone game before an expansion", then I'd say it does play better mixed with RotH. Actually, it plays even better with RotH on the table and UtSotD safely in its box.

Thread: Re: Would y'all consider this a standalone game before an expansion, or vice-versa?

rvinyard — 2008-06-27T21:41:22+00:00

Verkisto wrote:
So, which is it? Standalone or expansion?

Yes.

Seriously though... I don't see that there is necessarily a continuum between standalone and expansion for this game.

Additionally, even though the game is listed as a two player game, it could easily be a three player game since there are three character cards present.

Thread: Re: Would y'all consider this a standalone game before an expansion, or vice-versa?

Verkisto — 2008-06-27T21:32:17+00:00

DaviddesJ wrote:
Important? You have a strange definition of important. World peace is important. Categorizing board games is not important.

Yes, thank you, Mr. Sarcasm-Impaired.

And thanks to you all for your responses.

Thread: Re: Would y'all consider this a standalone game before an expansion, or vice-versa?

boneroller — 2008-06-27T21:23:53+00:00

I would say that if someone owned this game and didn't list expansions, they should still list this game since it's a two player game and takes up less play area than Return of the Heroes.

Thread: Re: Would y'all consider this a standalone game before an expansion, or vice-versa?

Heliconia — 2008-06-27T21:15:27+00:00

I 2nd Zimeon

Thread: Re: Would y'all consider this a standalone game before an expansion, or vice-versa?

Zimeon — 2008-06-27T21:09:45+00:00

I regard it as an expansion that is stand aloneable.

Thread: Re: Would y'all consider this a standalone game before an expansion, or vice-versa?

DaviddesJ — 2008-06-27T21:09:35+00:00

Important? You have a strange definition of important. World peace is important. Categorizing board games is not important.

But I would consider it first of all an expansion, that can also be played separately.

Thread: Would y'all consider this a standalone game before an expansion, or vice-versa?

Verkisto — 2008-06-27T20:40:00+00:00

So, which is it? Standalone or expansion?

This is important. I'd like to know how to mark this as being in my collection.

Image

Cornbread46 — 2008-06-24T21:34:49+00:00

Being played as a stand alone.

Thread: Re: Hmm, didn't quite work as a stand-alone...

a2greg — 2008-05-28T20:03:48+00:00

Werbaer wrote:
I usually play with two small modifications, and it works well:
1. The starting monsters for the quests start on the map
2. Remove the dragon event "Fear" from the game

Number 2 cited above is crucial to making this game fun. Even the designer has stated that after many plays, he believes the Dragon Fear token to be an error in the system and that it shouldn't be used.

Another thing about bringing out tokens from the bag is to make sure that:

1) You don't put the thing you killed into the bag until AFTER you pull a new token.

2) That you bring tokens out of the bag at every opportunity that the game affords you and not just when you slay a monster.

The boards in this game are very cleverly laid out and you mentioned the requirements for entry or for exit as being missed initially. That's definitely important as you need to know how the desert board works as well as the Labyrinth.

I find this game very tight. Though the area is smaller, it forces you into encounters where the larger game allows you a lot of wiggle room to avoid things. Characters came very close to dying for the first 1/3 of the game and needed to visit either home or the Seer character a couple of times to heal up until they reached a certain strength threshold. I like this game and I think it makes a good two player game. Unfortunately, it will grow stale after maybe a dozen plays because the tokens are limited and some repetition will begin to erode a player's enjoyment. But there's always meshing it into the larger game...

Thread: Re: Hmm, didn't quite work as a stand-alone...

Werbaer — 2008-05-27T17:16:28+00:00

I usually play with two small modifications, and it works well:
1. The starting monsters for the quests start on the map
2. Remove the dragon event "Fear" from the game

I played a game against my nephew (8 years) a few days ago. He won with the Orc against my Paladin. Early in the game, his melee ability of 6 is a nice advantage (i needed much longer to gain 2 experience cubes in a skill), and his movement ability of 4 was another big boon. He beat me by about 4-5 turns, although we (should say: i) completely forgot about the extra move ability of his camel.

If you're accustomed to Return of the Heroes, note that the dragons are weaker than the Nameless Ones, so you don't need to power up that much. My nephew trained once, had the weapon from the Yeti, 4 dice, and killed the dragon without any problems.

Thread: Hmm, didn't quite work as a stand-alone...

TheMadWelshWizard — 2008-05-27T16:33:38+00:00

Hello All,

Yesterday, in the absence of any Bank Holiday Monday sun, me and my gaming group (my girlfriend) decided to give Under the Shadow of the Dragon a go as we had a great time playing Return of the Heroes (RotH) the day before.

We decided to play it as a stand alone as we thought this might work a bit faster than RotH as it said it was for two players. As the game mechanics are basically the same we quickly set things up and chose our starting characters, I played the Orc and Em's played the Paladin.

We launched into the game with gusto and did indeed find it a lot faster, however we did hit a few small problems along the way. And then one big one.

First of all the small ones; the Paladin is absurdly overpowered in my honest opinion, so much so I want to play it now in every game I play. Having said this I have only played/seen played the Mage and Elf (from RotH) and the Orc, but the ability to heal was of huge benefit to Em's. My Orc's ability was rubbish as what with the Dragon relieving you of three experience counters (ECs), the cursed Doppleganger who takes ECs instead of life and the training being replaced with Cerebrus ability to swap EC's for higher stats, I held onto them as they were indeed a precious commodity.

Secondly we didn't realise that certain locations had special entry requirements as these rules were tucked away in the glossary at the back. We have however learnt our lesson and realise that before playing any of the RotH games/expansions you need to fully read the rules including the glossary before you begin play.

Now then, on to the biggest problem we found; the gameplay was really fast and we burned through loads of tasks and were left with precious little to do. We were forced to trail the countryside fighting the same two defeatable monsters (skeletons & basilisk) in a bid to get more tokens out of the bag in an attempt to start one of the three magic weapon quests. This was a bit tiresome but okay as the Scorpion came out evetually (and all his sub quests had been placed already) so off I went to slay the Scorpion, only to defeat a skeleton on the way and have the Dragon Event card, Fear come out. This made loads of tiles on the board 'flee' into the bag, including the Scorpion. This meant that we were reduced to fighting the same monsters again and again to get more tiles out which became tiresome very quickly, and at one point there were no monsters, just tiles relating to other quests that could not be started as the three magical monsters were not in play. At this point a "magic all seeing eye" (me) got the required tokens out of the bag and put them on thier correct places on the board enabling us to complete the magic quests.

From this point on the end game was brilliant, as me and Em's were both powerful running around the board trying to complete our quests and take on the Dragon. Sadly my ability to move 1 square more each turn didn't help as I had to go all the way home to heal whereas the Paladin stopped outside the Dragon's cave to heal then stormed in killing the Dragon Man and the Dragon itself. Our fun in the last 15 minutes probably saved this game from being condemned to the 'overflow' games cupboard (the inaccesible dark recess in the loft).

We may have got it wrong and the game probably functions really well as an expansion but as a stand alone it definitely needs a bit of work as there seems to be too few monsters (poor monsters without gold too!).

I hope this helps and also wondered if anyone had a better explanation of the Dragon Event, Fear ?

Craig

Thread: Re: Rules Clarifications from the designer

gheintze — 2008-03-12T17:58:38+00:00

I believe that the scroll goes on the quest card and does not count as an item -- similar to the quests in RotH, but that the magic ingredient and then the weapon count as items.

At least this was my interpretation. Thus, when a hero dies he could pass on the ingredient as the one item and the scroll would come along.

I think that if someone chose not to pass the magic ingredient on for some reason, that it would drop in the clearing with the rest of the items. Then could be picked up by anyone.

Geoff

Thread: Re: Rules Clarifications from the designer

LoneCleric — 2008-03-12T17:30:34+00:00

3)Are the magical items or ingredients for the quest (ie the Axe of Bragg) carried on the task card or your character card? Do they count towards your limit of four artifacts?
On your character card, yes, they count to the limit.
That's the one point that still bugs me. If they count toward the 4-artifacts limit, that means if the hero dies, he can only keep the scroll, and not the "ingredient" (I'll just call it that), right?

But what would happen to the dropped ingredient? It goes back into the bag? It switches sides again and moves back to its original spot? (seems out of place thematically) It remains where the hero is but switches side? (same thing) It remains where the hero is, artifact-side up? (but then another player could block the quest by picking it up?)

I guess that for now, in my games, the ingredient will become bound on the quest once it's found, making it impossible to have the scroll without having the ingredient. However, they'll still use 2 slots of the hero's inventory.

Thread: Rules Clarifications from the designer

gheintze — 2008-03-12T16:26:02+00:00

I wrote to Lutz Stepponat with some questions about several of the rules. Some of them have been discussed extensively on this site, but did not seem to be resolved. He gave me permission to post them here.

Thanks again, Lutz! It's great that you're always willing to answer questions about your great game series!

Geoff

1)What is the penalty for losing to the Dragon Man? Do you lose a hit point?
Yes, he has the same function like the servants in ROTH. You have to beat him, to reach the dragons lair. If you beat him you have to challenge the dragon in the next round. If you lose against the Dragon Man, you lose one hit point and can try it next round again, or you leave him, but not into the dragons lair! With the rope you can pass the Dragon Man without a fight.

2)Can you be healed at your manor house as in RotH?
Yes.

3)Are the magical items or ingredients for the quest (ie the Axe of Bragg) carried on the task card or your character card? Do they count towards your limit of four artifacts?
On your character card, yes, they count to the limit.

4)Are the monsters that are on the open (PA) counters returned to the bag as in RotH? If not it seems very difficult to gain enough experience or skill level to defeat the dragon?.
Yes.

5)How does the garbage dump work? Is it 1-2 if the counter has been revealed and only on a 1 if before? There seems to be some confusion in the forums about whether the dump is just for spells or if it includes all artifacts from the City of Mages?
You can only find one of the markers (Spells and Artifacts) of the City of Mages, if the counter has been revealed. The 1 ist a misprint, but Peter-Gustav Bartschat had a quite good houserule, which I like a lot. If the counter is not revealed you find a City of Mages marker rolling a 1, if the counter is revealed you find a marker by rolling 1 or 2 and it was not a misprint.

6)How exactly does movement around the City of the Mages and the Labyrinth regions work? When you roll a dice to move using the transporters is that the end of your movement or can you keep going? Likewise, when you leave the dump or the city of the mages can you keep moving? Does getting lost in the labyrinth (rolling the dice) count as your movement or can you keep going? After you have the map do you follow the trails through the maze to get from place to place or can you just jump around wherever you want?
Using the transporter is an action, not a movement. First Movement, than action, so you cant move after using the transporter. The same for the Labyrinth.
Leaving the City of Mages is a movement. You need 1 movement point from the city to any other transporter point.
Leaving the dump is not a movement, you have to use the transporter (dice) to leave the dump.
The "map" allows you to move through the Labyrinth, from point to point. There are corridors between the walls.

7) In return of the heroes, the dwarf's special ability is to move through the secret mountain passes, but this is never defined. Where are the passes that the dwarf automatically finds?
Mountain Cards are C, D and X, but X has no secret mountain passes. I can offer you the following solution. Take a orange point and paste it up on the red points of the two cards, C and D.

8) Can I post these answers?
Yes.

9) I just ordered Helden in the Unterwelt and die Gralssuche. Are you making any more expansions?
Yes. I finished ?die Nibelungen? and started a further one, ?Karl der Große?.

10) I noticed that the eternal candles from the Juan's Relic quest don't award a gold piece. They are the only first step of a heroic deed that doesn't. Is this a misprint?
No! The Idea behind is, that there should be a quest for the moneymakers, the gold piece collectors. Getting the candles, you need money, why should I get an award, was my question. Your award for this quest is, you have not to fight.

11) I have a few questions about Armor. When it is destroyed is it returned to the market or removed from the game?
If the armor marker is from the market, back to the market, not from the market removed from the game.
For the smithy to work, does the Hildebrandt counter need to be revealed? I assume that if you are playing with the smithy, that damaged or destroyed armor can be carried to the smithy as one of your four items instead of removed from the game (or returned to the market).
To repair your armor, you dont need the Hildebrandt Counter. It is the place not the marker.
Yes you have to carry the damaged or destroyed armor to the smithy.
Yes you need one space on your character sheet for the armor, repaired or not repaired.
What can be repaired at the smithy? I would think that the shield, the armor, and the armor vest can be repaired, but not the magic cloak or the ring.
The smithy is a craftsmen, not a magician, but some heros thought he is, when they got back their repaired armor and it looked like new.
No! No magic cloak, no ring!

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MattDP — 2008-03-07T19:53:06+00:00

The Dragon and his Hoard

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MattDP — 2008-03-07T19:51:34+00:00

Under the Shadow of the Dragon straight out of shrinkwrap

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willdesigns — 2007-12-22T17:32:01+00:00

USD Wodan of Sunhill - D&D Aasimar Fighter

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

willdesigns — 2007-12-21T05:14:06+00:00

Yes, I have to say that I think sometimes we need an extra brain to understand what women think. But it is not worthy to have a fight for a boardgame, less when she plays the others, maybe she just does not relate to the characters... of course she can pick a male character too since this is a fantasy adventure, but definitely is something I would not enforce if I where in your position. World of Warcraft have enough variants to choose from and I have high hopes for the future "Warcraft Adventure Game" and "Road to Legend".

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

XanderF — 2007-12-21T04:53:26+00:00

willdesigns wrote:
Yes, the cgi is basic, but the atmosphere is great. The characters are a little stiff but I wouldn't confuse sexist with beautiful. Nevertheless I understand women reaction, usually a mix of insecurity with irrational feminism. Just tell her she is more beautiful than the drawings and that will do it. But I wouldn't be choosing if I where you the female elf for your adventures on her presence, that might draw the wrong signal and the game might appear one day on the dumpster :P

I think if mine was the traditionally insecure type, I may try such tactics to attempt to ease her out of it. However, she's really quite balanced (we are watching the 'Voyager' Trek series now, and she is quite impressed with Seven of Nine), and these illustrations really are rather over-the-top. I think her largest criticism is that they are in a boardgame, which she takes to be kinda inappropriate context - in a little too 'Fear of Girls' sort of way.

In any case, there are enough really GREAT games out there that she likes, so I think we can shelve this one for now. Who knows, maybe someday there will be a re-imagining of this with a different theme.

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

willdesigns — 2007-12-18T13:25:10+00:00

Yes, the cgi is basic, but the atmosphere is great. The characters are a little stiff but I wouldn't confuse sexist with beautiful. Nevertheless I understand women reaction, usually a mix of insecurity with irrational feminism. Just tell her she is more beautiful than the drawings and that will do it. But I wouldn't be choosing if I where you the female elf for your adventures on her presence, that might draw the wrong signal and the game might appear one day on the dumpster :P

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

XanderF — 2007-12-18T04:54:11+00:00

Zimeon wrote:
Haven't played the games yet, but after a quick solo testing session and some rules pondering I have concluded it might just be the optimum adventure game. Does seem to take quite a bit of time, though.

Could use a re-theme, though (IE., change the fantasy world it's set in) and much better artwork. The CGI on the cards is just plain CHEEZY, and the wife outright nixed the product line due to the rather sexist character artwork in the base game. Which I can understand - rules aside, the artwork in this series really bites.

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

Zimeon — 2007-12-15T11:02:54+00:00

Haven't played the games yet, but after a quick solo testing session and some rules pondering I have concluded it might just be the optimum adventure game. Does seem to take quite a bit of time, though.

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

willdesigns — 2007-12-14T17:13:52+00:00

May be it does. I can hear them speaking in my head... voices in the dark... voices in the light... calling my name...

Ok,... now I have taken my pill and I much, much better... yes, I said much better !! Damn voices, Obey the Pill !!!

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

XanderF — 2007-12-14T16:42:25+00:00

willdesigns wrote:
Yes, Steve, the game is light but fun. I am a huge fan of Oblivion the video game, I like the epic adventures where you feel involved instead of those in which you simply control a character. For some reason with this game I feel the same way as with Oblivion. You move from region to region doing primary and secondary quests until the moment arrives where you become a hero.

Now, see, THAT is a compliment.

I'm with you on 'Oblivion' - absolutely fantastic game, and I've long wanted a board game with the same feel. (But it doesn't have Patrick Stewart, Sean Bean, and Lynda Carter doing voices for it, now DOES it?)

Thread: Re: Solitaire??? HOW???

lippo — 2007-12-05T18:33:32+00:00

Some things have changed since I posted my solo rules:

I bought 'Return of The Heroes' and sold both 'In The Shadow Of The Dragon' and the third game of the series 'Helden in der Unterwelt'(wasn't as good as the previous).

Anyway, I had quite fun with those rules. Unfortunately, as stated in the rules themselves, I found the game rather unbalanced because of the different movement capability of the three characters. In the original game, the author thought of giving you the opportunity to purchase some movement-boosters objects straight from the beginning, without having to wait for them to come out of the bag. Certainly, this was to compensate the hero's movement.

I never had any feedback from anybody after I posted my rules, so I cannot tell you if they actually worked for others. I'd be very curious to know your opinion if and when you try them

Marco

Thread: Re: Solitaire??? HOW???

Lightstorm — 2007-12-04T17:45:53+00:00

You are right, Werner... the box does *not* say "1-2 players." My mistake. Still, the listing here at BGG says "1-2 players" and the game appears on a couple of solitaire-related geeklists. I am just curious about how people have played this solitaire.

coolpapa wrote:
Well, the solitaire in Return of the Heroes is done by giving yourself a set number of turns and seeing how close you get to winning. I would guess this is something similar.

RotH had an actual solitaire variant, with specific set-up and rules for adding perils as the game progressed. Has anybody seen (or heard) of an "official" solitaire scenario for Under the Shadow of the Dragon?

Marco Lippolis (lippo) posted a set of solitaire rules here at BGG. I will look at these and give a try. Has anybody else tried?

Thread: Re: Solitaire??? HOW???

Werbaer — 2007-12-04T11:33:57+00:00

Lightstorm wrote:
The game box (and BGG) state that this is a 1-2 player game and it even appears on more than one solitaire-related geeklist.
Where does the game box say 1-2 players? The back of the box clearly states 2 players:

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Thread: Re: Solitaire??? HOW???

coolpapa — 2007-12-04T06:45:18+00:00

Well, the solitaire in Return of the Heroes is done by giving yourself a set number of turns and seeing how close you get to winning. I would guess this is something similar.

Thread: Solitaire??? HOW???

Lightstorm — 2007-12-04T05:07:05+00:00

I just received my copy of Under the Shadow of the Dragon and am surprised to find that there are no rules for solitaire play in the package! The game box (and BGG) state that this is a 1-2 player game and it even appears on more than one solitaire-related geeklist. Still, there are no rules to play solitaire...

...so... how do you do it? There must be an official method or the box wouldn't say 1-2 players.

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dan4th — 2007-11-24T02:49:34+00:00

Note to Self: Don't overspecialize. The Golem can't be injured by ranged attack (green cubes) and will KILL you.

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dan4th — 2007-11-24T02:48:21+00:00

Glass marbles mark HP, but they are a little big for the allowed space on the character board.

Thread: Re: Does this really work stand alone?

astroglide — 2007-11-19T15:11:20+00:00

i've only played the main game and the dragon expansion 2p. i sold the former because i preferred the latter. i find that the expansion has more interesting tiles, and the play length is kept more reasonable for my tastes due to the smaller board.

Thread: Re: Does this really work stand alone?

sdafilli — 2007-11-19T11:06:04+00:00

Personally I enjoy Under the Shadow better if playing just 2 players... more compact, quicker game, more fun, more possibilities to run into your opponent etc...

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the base game too, but tend to reserve it (or combining it with this expansion) if playing with more players. With 4+ players the base game combined with this expansion is great!

Alternatively, the Holy Grail expansion can be played quite well as 2 player... which uses the base game tiles (and a few other game pieces). Really enjoy the Holy Grail expansion- must say we've enjoyed the Grail expansion even more than this expansion... great translation from German on BGG too .

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

willdesigns — 2007-11-02T14:12:39+00:00

Yes, Steve, the game is light but fun. I am a huge fan of Oblivion the video game, I like the epic adventures where you feel involved instead of those in which you simply control a character. For some reason with this game I feel the same way as with Oblivion. You move from region to region doing primary and secondary quests until the moment arrives where you become a hero.

Personally I think cards in this type of games tend to ruin the system, they force you to believe in something that is simply not there. Here you just move to the region and there it is the quest, you accomodate it in your character sheet and it belongs to you from now on. It's really great.

I own World of Warcraft for example and eventhough the game has awesome miniatures, nice cards, beautiful map, it does not reach to the knees of this game. The system is everything and here you will find the best system ever made on this kind of games.

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

Sigrdrifa — 2007-11-02T13:57:45+00:00

stormseeker75 wrote:
I think you may have finally sold me on the Return of the Heroes game system. I've been debating which one of these adventure games to get. RotH had been leading the pack, and now I think I feel confident making that choice.

It does have that old school Talisman "Race-to-the-Last-Battle" feel to it. Runebound is another, similar game that fills the same niche. ROTH is more light-hearted. I guess my best comparison is this:

ROTH:Hobbit::Runebound:Lord of the Rings. Explanation: Both are great, fun games. In ROTH you're working for things like the magic mirror, whereas in RB you're working for that +2 Vorpal sword. Both are good games. I couldn't decide, so I own both (plus some expansions).

MJ

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

stormseeker75 — 2007-11-02T13:15:58+00:00

I think you may have finally sold me on the Return of the Heroes game system. I've been debating which one of these adventure games to get. RotH had been leading the pack, and now I think I feel confident making that choice.

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

willdesigns — 2007-11-02T13:07:45+00:00

Yes, I thought of "Die Rückkehr der Helden: Helden in der Unterwelt" but was afraid the german would be a problem plus I do not know the system of this expansion but it seems very different from the main game.

Thread: Re: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

gamemark — 2007-11-02T06:26:45+00:00

Will - since you like the base game & 1st expansion as much as you do, I'd strongly suggest you pick up Helden in der Unterwelt and Die Rückkehr der Helden: Die Gralssuche - both available, btw, from amazon.de for very reasonable prices: Underwelt is 16.70 Euros & Grailsuche is 4.97 - and the shipping is (I think) 7 Euros.

You have to fight through the German a bit, but there are good translations available here on the Geek.

Thread: Flawless game system for an Epic Adventure Game

willdesigns — 2007-11-02T00:41:15+00:00

I already own Return of the Heroes so after playing my first game I decided to buy the expansion as soon as I could. When I saw it at 15 bucks I knew the time had come. This review comes moments after I played the game for the first time and as the second game of the day since I played first talisman 4th edition.

Components

9 new map pieces, 6 new characters (orc, halfling, paladin both males and females), 36 experience tokens (12 for each skill), 2 house tokens, 5 wooden dice, 18 market tokens (mage tower), 27 adventure tokens, 18 covered counters, 3 main quest sheets, 4 dragon sheets, life counters and 15 coin tokens.

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The map pieces are well done featuring an oversight view of the regions. They are easy to spot and simple to understand. But as with the other elements of the game you will need to go to the rules on the first game for almost everything as in the rules it is explained what each region have of special. They are labeled with letters on the top left corners and yet you forget about them in the game only to spot them easily when a quest calls your attention or a new element has arrived to the game.

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The characters artwork is the best this game provides. Detailed portraits that let you choose not only a race but also a personality you feel empathy with.

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The tokens count with a 3D artwork probably made in Poser that accomplishes to accompany the elements of the quest or characteristic of a creature. Let me stop a moment to clear something: I love plastic miniatures in games, if you are not going to put a plastic miniature the game should be exceptional to grab my attention, more when we are talking about encounters, here the truth is "I do not care", the system is so good that makes me oversee the artwork in the tokens and just take them as if I were playing a game in my computer: just another element that enriches the environment but mainly let me accomplish a goal.

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The main quest sheets are clear and define your main goals easily. The artwork is basic as it portrays the tokens you need in order to accomplish the goals. Perfect system indeed.

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The dragon sheets have 3D artwork (poser style), that is enough to portray the type of dragon you are fighting. The characteristic of each creature is well defined by text or icons.

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The life counters are bigger than the ones on the original game and do not fit the size in the character sheet. Nevertheless once they are placed you focus on the gems instead of looking at the sheet so the do not harm the system in any way.

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Truth saying I do not like the dice. Wooden doesn't roll as well as acrylic or plastic so if you have other dice use them. I see too much wood in this game that is my only complain.

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Finally the wooden cubes are to be used for the experience you achieve on each skill. They give a sense of 3D to the character sheet that looks pretty cool.

Gameplay

Like on the main game you set the tiles on a 3x3 matrix. Place the covered tokens on each tile as defined on the rules and your character on it's starting position.

From there you move. Each character counts with a limit for the movement that can be changed by elements in the quests or stuff in the market. You may go from starts to the main quests or wander through the land facing enemies, completing secondary quests, visiting the mage tower to buy stuff at the market, etc. Even with this freedom you see the system working underneath it as you really are forced to do all those things to replenish the elements you take from the game with new elements from outside the game (new tokens) that define new actions or add new characters that are a precondition to a quest.

For example: Let's say a quest tells you to find the "chestnut cookies" on the tile T and in the position 8 of that tile... if the "Chestnut Cookies" are not in the game you will have to face encounters to remove those tokens from the game for the possibility of introducing in the game the "Chestnut Cookies". Then the quest tells you to go and find the "Healer" at V5 but if the "Healer" is not in the game you will have to wait and do other stuff. Genious !!!

Once you have gathered enough experience you need to complete the main quests from the "main quest sheet" in order to adquire a magical weapon that is the key so you can face your ultimate nemesis: a dragon.

Meanwhile the dragon's presence is felt through a series of encounters called "Dragon Events" that add to the atmosphere of the story.

Once you have the magical weapon you can go to the Dragon's Lair on the tile V and fight it like any other creature but bigger... much, much bigger.

The truth is that if you wait enough and survive the encounters you will have enough power to defeat the beast, but there is when timing comes to play as your fellow adventurers can do the same thing anytime. Let just remember that eventhough it might look like you are cooperating with other players you are an adventurer that is trying to become "a Hero" with emphasis in "a"... 1 Hero.

Conclusion

After playing talisman I decided to write a review of the game, and I wasn't entirely satisfied by the game system. Having this game in my library for a while I decided to try it and was really surprised to have this much fun. As I told you before I am a fan of plastic miniatures in the games I own (World of Warcraft, Descent, Mage Knight, Orc Wars, Cavetroll, etc, etc, etc.) but some games amaze me enough to make me forget they do not have them. This is the mother of those games as I really enjoy this one so much I will definitely play it solo on my free times.

I would love to add to my collection the miniatures that come with the deluxe version but if not I will certainly do not miss them.

So if you are a fan of games like "Elder Scrolls" in your computer this is certainly an Epic Adventure that can be shared with your friends. Maybe one day I will meet "runebound" to compare but for now this is the best fantasy adventure game I met.

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I give it a 9 over 10 just because of my need of plastic. But a flawless 10 to the game system.

Note: By the way I described this game as stand alone but can also be used as an expansion for the main game. Just add the tiles to the ones that come with the main game to create a huge map that will bring more adventure to your gaming sessions.

Note2: Eventhough this game is for 1-2 players the only limitation to use a 3rd. one would be the wooden experience tokens but nothing else (it already comes with 3 main quest sheets and 3 character sheets). Oh, and by the way the game comes with small numbered pieces that you can use when you have no more wood so make it a 1-3 players game experience

Thread: Re: Odd Tiles in Box

Nova2001 — 2007-10-23T01:51:05+00:00

I have odd tiles, too.

I have 3 black tiles (not just 2) and 2 magic potions (with costs of -1 and -2). I don't have any sign of a camel. Everything else seems present.

How crazy is that?

Or, to put it another way, anyone else have this problem? How upset should I be?

Thread: Re: English Reorganized Rules for ROTH and ISOD Combo Needed

Nova2001 — 2007-10-23T01:43:12+00:00

I'm working on it! I just finished Phoenicia (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/27243) and need to take a rule-book writing breather for a little bit. But, I agree, it's necessary.

Thread: Re: Dragon Events ruining game

sdafilli — 2007-10-01T02:34:59+00:00

dcorban wrote:
We were playing with 4 players. Yes, we were removing the tiles from the game and following all rules to the absolute letter. There are multiple "plunder" tiles. Two had been pulled.

Hmmm... in my copy I have 5 Dragon Event tiles total (1 of Attack, Fear, Plunder... and 2 of Market is Burning)

Thread: Re: Dragon Events ruining game

dcorban — 2007-10-01T02:11:45+00:00

We were playing with 4 players. Yes, we were removing the tiles from the game and following all rules to the absolute letter. There are multiple "plunder" tiles. Two had been pulled.

Thread: Re: More Help!

sdafilli — 2007-10-01T00:49:52+00:00

astroglide wrote:
chockle wrote:
Note that you may be defeated by the monster, yet still do your actions/encounters.

i think that is incorrect. on P8 of the rules it says, "if you lose in combat, you may not undertake further actions in this turn; however, on subsequent turns you may act as you like."

Which essentially means that the creature "guards" all tiles/effects at that location, and you must kill the creature before picking anything up or carrying out any actions on that location (even if you lost the initial battle and held off for the next turn, if you did not move away and decided to stay put, you can't opt to avoid combat... combat occurs before any other actions... and is mandatory)

An interseting scenario therefore occurs when facing the Nameless One or the Dragon... If a previous player attempted to kill either one and failed, they will drop certain tiles on that location. When a second player attempts to face these creatures they first have to go through and defeat their corresponding guards... then they move to the corresponding lair. Given that the combat with the Nameless One/Dragon occurs on the next turn, after defeating the guards, you can still carry out actions ... including picking up any dropped tiles (picture it as the Nameless One/Dragon isn't in front of you...yet!! but will be on the next turn)

Thread: Re: Dragon Events ruining game

sdafilli — 2007-10-01T00:28:19+00:00

The dragon can only have accumulated 8 gold if you're all playing a game with 8 players (plunder = 1 gold from each player). If not then this is not that much of a problem.

Remember that when "events" are discarded they are out of the game (the RotH rules are pretty clear on this), not recycled back into the bag.

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CinMel — 2007-05-10T22:39:49+00:00

English version - box front

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CinMel — 2007-05-10T16:09:42+00:00

box back - English version

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fractaloon — 2007-03-16T23:06:56+00:00

Counter sheet (4 of 8)

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fractaloon — 2007-03-16T11:17:39+00:00

Counter sheet (8 of 8)