Game: Age of Steam Expansion #3 - Scandinavia and Korea

Thread: Re: Definitive ruling on the cost of mountains in Scandinavia?

fubar awol — 2008-08-02T15:50:04+00:00

Thanks Karl.

Thread: Re: Rule Changes for Expansion #3

krainer — 2008-08-01T02:11:19+00:00

There is no part of the board which looks like marshes. If you played on Vassal, it was an error on the part of the person who created the board for Scandinavia. Those should all be rivers.

Thread: Re: Definitive ruling on the cost of mountains in Scandinavia?

krainer — 2008-08-01T02:09:15+00:00

You misread the rules. It is the Korea side of the board which is +3$ for mountains in English, and $3 in both German and French. There is no alteration of the costs of mountains for Scandinavia in the Expansion #3 English version of the rules for Scandinavia. You ended up playing the correct amount by accident. :-)

Thread: Definitive ruling on the cost of mountains in Scandinavia?

fubar awol — 2008-08-01T01:16:01+00:00

Apparently the U.S. rules say that mountains are +3 to the base cost of 2, in other words they cost 1 more than normal (5 instead of 4).

The European rules state that they cost 3, one less than normal.

Because of the confusion, we played the map with the normal 4, so as to limit the impact of an error.

So, does anyone know which it is and why?

Foob

Thread: Re: Building a town on Kiel

KMcMillen — 2008-07-25T16:44:35+00:00

Thanks much. I didn't catch the fact that only some expansion would change that.
What a great game!

Thread: Re: Building a town on Kiel

Excalabur — 2008-07-25T05:52:10+00:00

No! The cost to build a town is as given in the rules: $1 + $1/exit, independent of the terrain depicted, unless the rules for some expansion specifically state otherwise.

Thread: Re: Building a town on Kiel

KMcMillen — 2008-07-25T05:33:59+00:00
So what is the cost for Lillehammer in the far north? And the artwork implies hills and mountains on that map. Is that the case?

Thread: Re: Rule Changes for Expansion #3

fubar awol — 2008-07-19T01:22:32+00:00
There is a part of the Scandinavia map in the north that has what looks like "marsh" hexes. We assume that these cost 3 to build on, just like rivers.

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thorndor — 2008-06-10T03:28:50+00:00
Korea Board with Cubes: Setup and Ready to Play

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thorndor — 2008-06-10T03:25:37+00:00
Scandinavia Board with Cubes: Setup and Ready to Play

Thread: Age of Steam Korea session report

dedefortin — 2008-05-11T04:20:43+00:00
Korea is part of the maps our group play regularly. We don't play it as often as we would like since every player has to be in great shape physically and mentally to play this challenging map.

Martin, Nathalie, Mario and Pierre would be the contender for tonight's game. Pierre won the first bet and urbanized in the northwest area and connected many cities. Since this spot seemed interesting, Nathalie also choose to start in this area, Mario began in the center and Martin builded in the southeast. Martin saw an opportunity in his area and went for the loco and turn 2 and shipped 2 goods for 3 income. He did the same trick on the next turn to take a big lead. Pierre was tired of this and took 3 shares on turn 5 and took loco action and connected Taegun and tried to deny Martin from connecting this important city but Nathalie and Mario decided not to take the last exit and Martin was finally able to connect it and guaranteed his first place. Pierre made a last try to stop Martin by betting 6$ to force martin to spend 7$ and deny him from connecting Shonju but this wasn't enough. This end of game was almost the same as in our last games when a player took a overwhelming lead. No matter this the other 3 players continued their game and tried to play for second place.

Even if most of our games are close until the last turn, we always have fun even if a player wins first place early in the game. There is always some challenge and we always try to improve our position. As expected the Korea map was very challenging with great interaction.

Final scoring:
Martin: 113
Mario: 84
Pierre: 75
Nathalie: 69

Thread: Age of Steam Korea session report

dedefortin — 2008-01-04T05:30:07+00:00
You usually try the Korea map when everyone in your group in in great shape. This is one of the toughest map and also a favorite in our group with his simple rules but very challenging at the same time.

The players began their network in the folloging areas: Marc-Andre in the southeast, Martin in the southwest, Mario and Pierre near Seoul. Pierre won the loco action on turn 2 for 4$ but the area around Seoul was jammed between the networks of Mario and Pierre. Marc-Andre took the first build action on turn 1 and choose the southeast region and he continued his work on turn 2 when he tried to block this area entirely to deny access to the other players. Martin is not the kind of guy that can be intimidate easily so he began building in the area that Marc was reserving for himself. Marc won the loco action but Martin choose some first build action and some urbanization to compete with him. With a neighbour like this, Marc-Andre was beggining to have a very tough time in his small area. There was another interesting fight between the 2 other players as Pierre stole many red goods in Mario's network. The game was very close and we had a classical betting round between Marc and Mario and the later won a loco action for 13$. Marc-Andre made a nice comeback when he linked Kungnung and gain access to several goods that were shipped for 6 income.

As expected we had another great game on this map. Age of Steam is a very challenging map but when playing the Korea map it's even harder to play. You realy need to plan all your move in advance and have Plan B, Plan C, Plan D because anything can happen very fast.

Final score:
Marc-Andre: 98
Mario: 93
Martin: 93
Pierre: 84

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Verkisto — 2007-12-17T01:32:58+00:00
A few stranded purple goods in Scandinavia....

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Verkisto — 2007-12-17T01:32:26+00:00
Yellow's network, about halfway through the game.

Thread: Re: Comment on the Scandinavian map

friedricetheman — 2007-08-13T05:11:24+00:00
Zingraff wrote:
This may appear somewhat irrelevant, but for a Norwegian, such as myself, some of the inaccuracies present on the game board are rather striking.

First of all, if the game is supposed to take place in the 19th century, the proper name of Oslo should be Christiania, as the name Oslo was assumed as late as in the 1920s.

Secondly some of the ferry-routes appear incorrect; the Aalborg-Göteborg and the Copenhagen-Helsingborg routes are simply strange choices, considering Aalborg-Christiansand and to a certain degree Copenhagen-Malmö are more historically and geographically appropriate.

Southern Norway and Nothern Juteland (Denmark) has always been connected by sea. Since the early middle ages both regions have been dependant on trading with each other, with Danish corn exchanged for Norwegian lumber and iron. Sweden on the other hand, has never been actively involved and for some centuries remained hostile to what used to be the Danish-Norwegian double monarchy, by today distant history.

I guess they did this for game balance purposes. I bet they did numerous playtesting to ensure none of the regions/cities in the map dominate any game. Just my two cents.

It happens a lot in 18xx, where certain companies are moved from their original city of operations to another city. This is to ensure a fair and balanced game.

Thread: [Portuguese] AoS - Korea

tiagoaob — 2007-07-16T18:43:43+00:00
Bem, eu estava na mesa de AoS e decidimos jogar no mapa da Korea. Comecei mal o jogo e fiquei com receio de ficar para trás logo no primeiro turno, mas graças a erros dos outros, consegui correr atrás do prejuízo já na segunda rodada.

Na terceira rodada, o leilão decidiu o resto do jogo. O Glauco caiu fora do leilão logo de cara, eu ainda cheguei a dar um lance de três na tentativa de conseguir a Urbanização, mas o Sumaré e o Marcelo chegaram a 10 e 11 respectivamente no leilão.

Não é necessário dizer que isto praticamente os retirou do jogo. O Marcelo ainda conseguiu se manter razoavelmente estável no jogo, embora sem chances, mas o Sumaré teve que começar uma verdadeira operação de guerra para não ir à falência total.

A disputa mesmo ficou entre eu e o Glauco, que ficamos de fora do mega-leilão. A disputa foi bem acirrada entre nós dois e no final a diferença de pontuação foi de apenas 5 pontos 101 a 96 para mim. O marcelo ficou com uns 80 pontos e o Sumaré por volta de 60.

O mapa da Coréia é realmente extraordinário, com a possibilidade de manipular as cores das cidades a ação de First Move ganha ainda mais importância. O único problema é que jogamos com regras erradas. As montanhas na Coréia custam 3 e não +3(ou seja 5) para construir, mas pelo menos afetou a todos de maneira igual no jogo.

Thread: [Portuguese] Não usem trem na Escandinávia

tiagoaob — 2007-07-02T18:50:27+00:00
Ontem finalmente eu consegui estrear a expansão que meu irmão trouxe do Canadá. Escolhemos jogar na Escandinávia.

Estavamos em três jogadores, eu, meu irmão mais velho João e meu irmão mais novo Davi (o que é um milagre, ele nunca joga nada).

Bem, começamos e consegui o primeiro leilão e peguei First Build (primeiro a construir), pois havia algumas poucas cidades com rota fácil e disponível, mas comecei errado. Construi apenas o mínimo essencial e não o suficiente para travar meu irmão mais velho.

Com esta briga no início entre eu e o João, quem se deu bem foi o Davi, pois enquanto nós dois brigavamos no nordeste e sul do mapa, o Davi se deu bem construindo no noroeste sozinho, e conseguuiu uma boa rede de distribuição.

Fui o único que utilizou a nova ação do mapa de transporte maritimo, e com algum resultado, pois consegui tirar alguns cubos essenciais de meus irmãos, mas acredito que a ação não valha muito a pena. Apenas em desespero ou se não tiver nada melhor para fazer, pois a limitação de que apenas um dos cubos transportados em um turno pode ser utilizar a balça é bem grande.

Bem, meu irmão mais novo começou com esta vantagem, mas sua inexperiência no jogo fez com que ele atrasasse o desenvolvimento de seus links (conexões) e assim, no final do jogo, o João e depois eu conseguimos alcança-lo.

Resultado final, nós não chegamos a contar, pois o João estava pelo menos uns 20 pontos na minha frente e do Davi, assim pulamos esta parte.

Impressões: o mapa é bem mais sufocante do que o mapa normal (grandes lagos EUA), com pouco espaço para construir e rotas bem caras. Ficou bom com três jogadores, com quatro acredito que seja problema dos grandes. Agora falta testar o mapa da Coréia.

Thread: Re: Rolling hills in Korea

Great Dane — 2007-03-31T09:09:39+00:00
rockusultimus wrote:
I've read some discussion on another thread where it's accepted that mountains in Korea cost $3 (vs. $4 per original rules).

Problem is, the rules say HILLS $3 (not Mountains).
Our group took it to mean that Hills are $3 and hexes that have Mountain peaks are $4. Were we reading too much into it?
Yes, you are. take a look at the original board and you will see that some of the Mountains on that map are acdtually what you call 'hills' - particularly the hex clearly labeled "Allegheny Mountains.

All 'mountain hexes' on the Korea map are hills. Just as all 'hill hexes' on all the other official maps are mountains.

We also played with Suwon as a town. If it is a city, why doesn't it have a black city picture like Pyongyang?
All grey hexes are Cities. Suwon does not have a silhuette because it cannot receive new goods during the Goods Growth phase.

Thread: Rolling hills in Korea

rockusultimus — 2007-03-30T21:08:02+00:00
I've read some discussion on another thread where it's accepted that mountains in Korea cost $3 (vs. $4 per original rules).

Problem is, the rules say HILLS $3 (not Mountains).
Our group took it to mean that Hills are $3 and hexes that have Mountain peaks are $4. Were we reading too much into it?

We also played with Suwon as a town. If it is a city, why doesn't it have a black city picture like Pyongyang? If it is a town, why isn't it green like the other town hexes? You can see we urbanized it here:

]]>

It would be really nice to get some official responses on these issues.
How do you guys play with these issues?

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rockusultimus — 2007-03-30T19:51:54+00:00
Kaos in Korea - endgame. Black - 102, Purple - 125, Blue - 147

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Legomancer — 2007-03-26T18:57:46+00:00
Big happenings near Halsingborg

Thread: Re: Building a town on Kiel

clearclaw — 2007-03-16T23:38:45+00:00
CortexBomb wrote:
It's very unusual for terrain costs to affect the costs of building through towns. I'm having trouble recalling if that has ever been done actually.

AoS:South-East Australia is the only map I can think of which applies terrain to town prices. For that map it is a simple terrain+exits.

Suffice to say, if the costs were altered, then that alteration would be mentioned in the rules.

Yep.

Thread: Re: Building a town on Kiel

rockusultimus — 2007-03-16T16:32:55+00:00
We discussed it briefly when we were playing and agreed to add another dollar for the river on the initial build.
You make a good point though - thanks!

Thread: Re: Building a town on Kiel

CortexBomb — 2007-03-16T15:50:25+00:00
Same cost as normal.

It's very unusual for terrain costs to affect the costs of building through towns...I'm having trouble recalling if that has ever been done actually. Suffice to say, if the costs were altered, then that alteration would be mentioned in the rules.

Thread: Building a town on Kiel

rockusultimus — 2007-03-16T14:10:48+00:00
What is the cost of building a town on Kiel (river running through)?

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rockusultimus — 2007-03-16T14:08:44+00:00
Lots of goods in Hamburg with no where to go...

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rockusultimus — 2007-03-16T14:07:34+00:00
Scandinavia 1st play, end game. Green: 58, Black: 68, Purple: 85

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mdu2boy — 2007-03-08T22:24:26+00:00
From Bobby Tweak's game night- Age of Steam

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mdu2boy — 2007-03-08T22:23:47+00:00
From Bobby Tweak's game night- Age of Steam

Thread: Re: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

bazik123 — 2007-02-11T19:35:05+00:00
clearclaw wrote:
As happens the same pattern and meaning of thicker black lines is not only used in AoS:Ireland, but also in several of the 18XX games (from which I suspect it was borrowed).

unluckily i have more of a rrt background ok, ok, call me a wannabe traingamer

Thread: Re: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

clearclaw — 2007-02-11T18:42:30+00:00
bazik123 wrote:
i guess i am just overreacting at guessing badly what the thick lines do, when it's not explained in the rules, and the board _screams_ at you they must mean something other than they in fact do.

As happens the same pattern and meaning of thicker black lines is not only used in AoS:Ireland, but also in several of the 18XX games (from which I suspect it was borrowed).

now excuse me, i am away to play another overTested-badlyDrawn-poorlyExplained map that somehow managed to get me completely unhooked from anything other that AoS for a week now.

AoS is certainly a great game.

Thread: Re: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

bazik123 — 2007-02-11T18:25:09+00:00
don't get me wrong, I am all for playtesting games. especially being polish - i refuse to believe polish publishers (I mean most of them) playtest for any other reason than to say it's been done. I've seen a game having major modifications done 2 weeks before publication, but it still pretended being playtested.

i guess i am just overreacting at guessing badly what the thick lines do, when it's not explained in the rules, and the board _screams_ at you they must mean something other than they in fact do.

now excuse me, i am away to play another overTested-badlyDrawn-poorlyExplained map that somehow managed to get me completely unhooked from anything other that AoS for a week now.

Thread: Re: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

clearclaw — 2007-02-11T18:04:38+00:00
bazik123 wrote:
funny reading stuff like that and at the same time reading that the maps are being playtested for years even...

Maps often have balance problems; the actions don't quite work right in all cases, certain cube distributions allow for runaways, parts of the map are excessively valuable or deprecated, etc. To give an example look at AoS:Central America:

]]>

A problem with that map as shown there is that with certain cube distributions and likely play patterns, Baja California is immensely powerful for the player who gets Engineer in turn 3, and there is no real way for the other players to effect that. The address was to change the cost of the sea route at the southern end of Baja as well as to add additional sea routes there. There's another similar problem with the routes out of Panama in that version of the map. These problems were revealed and solved through playtesting.

...you really need to playtest a map so much if it doesn't bother you some parts on the map make no sense?

For most of us the important thing is that the game works as a game. Is it challenging, interesting, demanding in all cases always?

what else are they all playtesting? heh :-(

That the game works as a game.

Thread: Re: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

CortexBomb — 2007-02-11T16:04:36+00:00
Mike, again, it's just a thematic touch. Most of the extra hexes are there so that the map maintains the shape of the area that it's depicting with reasonable accuracy. Sure, the designers could just make those black hexes on the map, but I personally prefer the black line approach.

Thread: Re: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

bazik123 — 2007-02-11T15:53:34+00:00
funny reading stuff like that and at the same time reading that the maps are being playtested for years even... you really need to playtest a map so much if it doesn't bother you some parts on the map make no sense? what else are they all playtesting? heh :-(

sorry for the mini-rant, thanks for the reply

Thread: Re: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

CortexBomb — 2007-02-11T15:49:17+00:00
Black lines causing hexes to be purely thematic / decorative is not uncommon at this point. If you think that line is odd check out the Switzerland map where a cluster of 3 hexes has lines around them such that you can build in, but can't get back out again...!

Thread: goods on urbanised cities in korea - less chaos

bazik123 — 2007-02-11T14:48:38+00:00
knowing which goods will get to each city (assuming no production) is something that's present in all maps I played, except for korea, where this knowledge seems way more crucial. for this reason I played the map this way:

set the goods replenishment table as usual. the cubes there are what will get to each city in the production phase. additionaly lay the 8 new cities hexes next to the board _with_2_cubes_on_them_. you can instantly see what colour your newly built city is about to be, and you also know it's near future (with its production-phase cubes on their place since game start).

any comments welcome.

Thread: Re: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

bazik123 — 2007-02-11T13:32:18+00:00

wow, tommy8, my 'rules questions' note I made while playing this expansion is a mirror of this post :-)

CortexBomb wrote:

2) The thick black lines cannot have track built over them. This rule was introduced in Ireland, and the Frogs forgot to mention what they did in the #3 rules sheet.

just to make sure - in korea there's a space that is purely decorative as it has the thick lines on each of its no-water-edges, and most of the lines in the south seem pretty strangely placed. all in all this made us think the thick lines had to mean something else than 'no build through' (which made sense in scandinavia). we played RRT style "thick line == additional $2" instead...

I am raising this issue again in the hope there'll be someone 'official' this time around to clarify :-)

Thread: Age of Steam Korea session report

dedefortin — 2007-01-07T03:21:04+00:00
It's always fun to sort out the Age of Steam maps and find some we haven't played for a long time. For us it's one of the best aspect of having many expansions to such a great game. You can play as often as you want and always play different map. Tonight was a good example when we all tought it has been a long time we have played the Korea expansion and we were all happy to play it tonight. Three players, Nathalie, Martin and Pierre would raise the challenge of this tough map. What a great way to finish this gaming year with our favorite game.

Martin choose the first build action on turn 1 to begin in the southeast region, Pierre then build around Seoul and Nathalie went south of Pierre. Right on round 2, Martin betted high for the loco action and during this time Pierre began a great network of loops in his area. Martin then connected the western part of the map but couldn't go farther as Nathalie took the last exits from the important city. This way, she reserved the southern part of the map for herself. On turn 5 Nathalie and Pierre betted high for the loco action and Pierre finally won and he was able to ship twice for 6 income. Martin made a try to stop big shippings by Pierre by building a link far from his network as he made a shipment of 1 income only. Martin told us it wasn't his fault if he made this kind of evil move, it was because he had been possessed by Marc-Andre's evil soul so Pierre forgave him. At this stage Pierre seemed to have the win because he had so many shippings of 6 income but Martin didn't give up and he continued to play agressive. Since Pierre had such great lead Pierre had more penalty with the income reduction than the other players and Martin also used the engineer action several time to build many tracks. He finally made a great comeback and won the game by a close margin over Pierre.

Another great game on this expansion. Lot of thinking every turn with the original mechanic of shipping and big interaction between players to steal some important goods from their network. Planning of your future turns is even moore important on this map. Our comments for this map are always great even with 3, 4 or 5 players.

For those who think it's too difficult to catch up the leader in this game should notice this session. Martin is probably one of the best in our group to be able to make this kind of comeback. In our group it,s very rare a player can say he has won the game until the very end because the game are always very close. Even if a player have a big lead we're trying to stay in the game and we fight for second or third place and then you never know what can happen to the leader like an agressive urbanization or a steal of goods. It,s another fun aspect of this game where the leader is always under pressure and he cannot lower his lever of play.

Final scoring:
Martin: 122
Pierre: 119
Nathalie: 84

Thread: Re: Rule Changes for Expansion #3

KentuckyKid — 2006-12-20T15:25:50+00:00
Thanks Jeff and Michael,

It sounds as if we played correctly. The Seoul-Suwon-Inchon thing didn't come up, as the leader (Justin Hwang, shininiu) was waaay out in front. We decided that Justin, being Korean, had an unfair advantage...

Thread: Re: Rule Changes for Expansion #3

CortexBomb — 2006-12-19T17:16:40+00:00
This is not official by any means, but I would count the link between two cities as one piece of track, and have.

I also have played Korea as 3$ mountain hexes, because the rules other than English are explicit about it...the Frogs have never made an official ruling on this though, and those maps are by Martin, so I would take his word as the definitive one.

Thread: Re: Rule Changes for Expansion #3

Lemming — 2006-12-19T16:44:25+00:00
Good Questions! ...and I thought I covered everything...

1 - According to John Bohrer of Winsome games (BGG's link to Warfrog), there are many artistic variations of mountain hexes, but all count as mountains.

2 - This seems to be a misprint in the English rule set. Others show the mountain cost as simply '3', not '+3'. I think you played correctly. Crossing Korea would seem just too costly to be worthwhile at $5 per hex.

3 - Don't know. My last game in Scandinavia came down to 1 point, so counting track correctly would make a difference. There is no track, but there is a track placement cost. My gut feel is that since this little triple link is so lucrative anyway, more points for track is just too good. Any other ideas?

Thread: Re: Rule Changes for Expansion #3

KentuckyKid — 2006-12-19T00:31:34+00:00
Good summary -- but I have a few questions on the Korea map. Is there a definitive answer to any of these?

1. The original AoS had 3 terrain types -- ordinary ($2), river ($3), and mountain ($4). The Korea map seems to have just two types, ordinary and mountain? Is that correct? We had some confusion, since there are lighter green hexes with "hills", darker green hexes with "hills", and then hexes that look actually like "mountains". Are all of these equivalent?

2. The rules say "Mountains cost +3 to build". I've seen this discussed, but I don't know the final word. Do the "mountain" hexes cost $3 total or $5 total to build on? (We played $3 -- it seemed to go fine. We would have struggled with too many shares if we'd tried $5.)

3. Do the Seoul-Suwon-Inchon links count for points at the end of the game? We played "no", since there is no track involved.

Thanks!
-Darin

(Edit: to clarify that I was only talking about Korea.)

Thread: Rule Changes for Expansion #3

Lemming — 2006-12-14T21:02:33+00:00
Well, I originally posted this as a question, but since nobody replied, I'll just assume I got everything. Feel free to add any corrections.

----------------

I recently picked up this expansion, but have no rules.

Can someone post or send me a scan or a .pdf? I'd like to have something official to put in the game box.

...But until then, here are the rules as I understand them from other BGG posts and info:

Scandinavia:

1 - Sea routes cost $6, and are built during the build phase. They then work like a standard link. Only one sea route may be built per person, per turn. Both ends of the Malmo / Rostock sea route must be cities before this route can be built.

2 - The new Ferry Action lets you move 1 good from any coastal city to any other coastal city. The person claiming this Action places their action disk in the purple "Move by Sea" space on the board. The Ferry movement takes place during either movement round, costs and scores 0 links, and must be done as part of delivering the good.

3 - Game ends when the turn marker enters the appropriate 'game end' space, not when it leaves.

Korea:

1 - Cities have no default color - the color of goods in the city determines what color goods can be moved to the city. A good cannot be moved through a city containing a good of the same color.

2 - Mountain hexes cost $3.

3 - Suwon is a city. It gets initial goods, but no replenishment. Inchon (or Seoul) and Suwon must be linked to move goods between them. Once linked through Suwon, Inchon and Seoul are two links apart. These links each cost $2 and 1 track placement.

4 - Setup: Pyongyang starts with 4 cubes. It also gets initial goods, but no replenishment. Pusan and Inchon start with 3 cubes. Other cities start with 2 cubes.

5 - New cities get 2 goods immediately from the goods display, and 2 goods from the supply replace these open spots on the goods display. All new cities are gray.

Both:

The thick black lines are uncrossable.

Both maps seem to work best with 3 or 4 players.

(Edits - various edits were made as I did more research on BGG, and for wording and clarification. Some personal opinions were removed. The discussion below will eventually be incorporated.)

Thread: Age of Steam Scandinavia session report

dedefortin — 2006-10-27T03:29:57+00:00
The 4 players seemed ready for a tough game so they choose the Scandinavian map. We appreciate these maps we haven't played for a long time. It's almost like a new game but you don't have to explain the rules !

Pierre started in the northwest, Martin in Denmark, Mario in Germany and Laurence around Goteborg. Martin had the itiniative for the first 2 rounds and the other players didn't have to pay anything for their place. Laurence surprised everyone when she choose to split her network and began to build in germany near Mario. Since Mario blocked Martin in connecting Hamburg , Martin tried to build in Sweden but Laurence choose first build to build a second maritime link. So Martin decided he would have to give 1 income to Laurence for the rest of the game and began his new network in Sweden. Laurence was very hot and she urbanized Malmo and then build the maritime link to Rostock, it was a very good turn for Laurence and she was back in the game. Move by sea action then became very important since interesting goods to ship were scarce. In turn 5 Pierre used ''his'' unique track (two coexist gentle curves) to block martin in connecting Hamburg since this was the only tile that could allow him to reach this important city. Game was becoming very tough and loco action wasn't choose by the first players in 2 consecutive turns.

Game was almost tied before the last turn between Martin and Pierre but Martin had a better network and was able to make 2 nice shippings and Pierre wasn't able to push him to 31 income. As expected this map was very challenging and we now remember why we took so long to play this map again. I suppose that's because we prefer lighter games like Ra

Final scoring:
Martin: 69
Pierre: 66
Laurence: 45
Mario: 36

Thread: Scandinavian Engines that Could

medievalbanquet — 2006-10-24T14:02:40+00:00
Played this map last night with 3 players. It was the first time on this map for everyone and it was brutal. I'm not sure I'd play it again with 3 as I just don't think there is enough pressure. There are so many ways to win that with only 2 others vying for actions it just didn't seem that tense, as this game should be. In fact, the only action that had any weight was the Ferry or Move by Sea. And, if one out of the 3 makes a mistake it becomes a 2 player game. 3 player games are very hard to balance and this was no exception.

Andy - black
Rob- blue
Chris- green

Chris and I isssued a share while Rob issued two. Chris and I started building near the sea routes down south- Copenhagen, Halsingber- while Rob chose to build a route from Stockholm to Uppsala. I industrialized Skien as well and built from Kristiansand to the new city thinking I could then connect to Oslo in the next round. Chris was able to do that as I had needed a different action and he was ahead of me in turn order. The game pretty much centered around the south central board with people vying for the Move by Sea, urbanize and First Build actions... I think I chose Turn Order once. I was able to stay behind the shares issued leader while upping my engine at the right times. the Move by Sea action was critical when all my cities were essentially depleted of goods. It was a good game as I had played face-to-face in about 2 months. But, it had that 3 player feel to it. 2 players clash a bit and diminish and the 3rd just capitalizes from there.

It was fun, nonetheless as its such a good game. Andy, 70; Chris, 48; Rob, 41. I think I had a total of 8 shares issued, Rob 10 and Chris 9.

Rob gets a pass as he drove straight from Canada to my house for the game. Those crazy Canadiens!

Thread: Re: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

Thommy8 — 2006-10-24T04:50:40+00:00
Thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks, and thanks

Thread: Re: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

CortexBomb — 2006-10-24T03:58:55+00:00
1) The sea routes function just like a normal rail link would, they do not use up the ferry action.

Kristiansand to Stockholm is a legal move for the ferry. The ferry simply allows you to, once, choose a single good that is in a coastal city (currently, or "passing through" via normal movement) and then put it in any other coastal city where it can either end up being delivered, or can continue on its merry way. The ferry movement itself does not count against your engine allotment for the round, nor does it generate income, it simply relocates a good.

2) The thick black lines cannot have track built over them. This rule was introduced in Ireland, and the Frogs forgot to mention what they did in the #3 rules sheet.

3) Does not matter. Town hexes always have costs as though the terrain present does not exist.

4) Yep.

5) Yep.

Thread: Scandinavia (Ferry Action, Thick Lines, Terrain, etc.)

Thommy8 — 2006-10-24T02:18:36+00:00
I have a few questions on Age of Steam: Expansion #3

1) Could someone please clarify what the "Ferry Action" allows you to do? Does it allow you to move a good all the way from Kristiansand to Stockholm? Do you need to take the "Ferry Action" to use a "Sea Route" and move a good from Kobenhavn to Halsingborg?

2) What's up with the extra thick lines above Norrkoping and to the left of Soderhamm? And is there also one directly to the left of Odense? They're not mentioned in the rules, so I'm assuming you can build a track tile adjacent to those lines, but maybe not build track through those lines, is that correct? While I'm at it, I assume the same applies to all the thick lines on the Korea map too, making it so there's only one entrance to Taean, Inchon, and Kosong, and impossible to get into that hex in the bottom left next to Wando?

3) The terrian of Lillehammer is or is not relevant? The terrain around Lillehammer costs $4 to build on as a base cost, whether it looks like hills or mountains, or do the costs vary, and if so, how much are they?

4) The hexagons directly below Kobenhavn and the hexgon directly above Rostock and the hexagon directly below Visby are all purely decorative, correct?

5) Do Suwon and Pyongyang both get cubes to start but never get cubes during the game?

Thanks, I think that's it for now!

Thread: Re: What is Suwon (between Inchon & Seoul) ?

b5mith — 2006-10-19T05:20:53+00:00
We played it with Suwon as a city as well.

I was however a little confused by the "Scandinavian Map Rules" line right undernieth the Korea instructions.

Thread: Age of Steam – Expansion #3 Korea/Scandinavia: my view.

RobM — 2006-10-06T16:20:58+00:00
Age of Steam – Expansion #3 Korea/Scandinavia: my view.

Preamble:
I thought this was a rather surprising combination of maps. It certainly looked very different to the previous Age of Steam expansions, so I got myself a copy.

Components:
This expansion adds a new double sided board and single page of additional rules. The board is up to the usual high standard, and thankfully rivers are back to the original blue colour (not the horrible purple/blue of the second expansion). One side of the board depicts Scandinavia. This is a very interesting board, with an uneven distribution of cities. The north east is hilly and the north west is full of rivers. The centre and south are island areas with lakes, sea, rivers and white ‘sea routes’. The distribution of coloured cities is 4 purple cities, 3 yellow and red and only 2 blue.

The other side of the board depicts Korea. This board is again quite different to previous boards. Almost the whole board is hilly or mountainous and there is a relatively even distribution of cities and towns. However, all of the cities are a neutral grey/brown colour (see gameplay below).

Overall, the components live up to the usual decent standard.

Gameplay:
I’m assuming that the reader knows the rules of the basic game. Gameplay for Scandinavia and Korea is subtly different.

Korea:
Set up: Pyongyang starts with 4 cubes. Pusan and Inchon start with 3 cubes. Other cities start with 2 cubes.
Terrain: hills cost +$3
Goods movement: goods must be moved to a city that contains a cube of the same colour. Cubes cannot move through cities containing cubes of the same colour.
Track circles: where cities are adjacent, a link can be built by placing a control marker in the white circle depicted on the board. This counts as one track tile and costs $2.
New cities: when a new city is built, the corresponding 2 goods from the goods display are immediately placed on that city, and new cubes drawn from supply to replenish the goods display. New cities are regarded as being grey, regardless of their colour.

Scandinavia:
Set up: all cities start with 2 cubes
Sea routes: a player may build a sea route depicted by a white line for a cost of $6, placing an ownership disk on it. Such a route counts as one victory point and a one link. A player may only construct one sea route per turn. The Malmo-Rostock sea route only exists once both these towns have been urbanised.
Ferry action: there is now an additional Ferry Action. This allows a player who selects this action to move a cube from one coastal city to another. This does not count as a movement link. Only one cube may be moved in this manner.
Game length: the game is one turn shorter

So What Do I Think?
I like this expansion. Both of these maps bring something new to the party. Scandinavia is quite a difficult map to build an effective network across which plenty of goods can be moved, though the ferry action helps. Certain areas such as the northern Polish/German coast can get very congested. Urbanisation plays an important role because placement of new colours can have a significant impact on how far away a destination city is (and how difficult it is to get to). Depending on where a player starts, at least one of the colours is going to be pretty difficult to get to. Long or complex networks that take in lots of colours will tend to be more difficult to create than on more open boards.

Korea is really quite chaotic. There is so much hilly terrain that building tracks is expensive. However, the fluid nature of where the cubes can go may or may not make up for this. The game is generally speaking a little more luck dependent since the appearance of new cubes can open up or close particular routes and delivery options. In the basic AoS we play a house rule for the Production action where a player takes 4 cubes at random and places 2 of them on the Goods Display. Whilst we use this for every expansion, I think it is particularly appropriate for Korea, where it allows for at least a modicum of forward planning.

Overall, another excellent expansion, though it is probably one for the more experienced AoS player because both maps are quite unusual and can be challenging. In a sense, it is therefore the natural progression from Expansion 2. Like the main game and preceding expansions, I give it an outstanding 9 out of 10. Personally, I’m particularly keen on the Scandinavia map.

Thread: Age of Steam Scandanavia with 3 players

salmacis — 2006-09-07T15:20:03+00:00
In attendance:
Adrian Barnard
Huw Morris
Ralph Grimble

Only the three of us again tonight. Fortunately there are a couple of maps on Age of Steam which work well with three players. Ireland is probably the best of them, but we've played that one quite a bit, so this time, we tried the Scandanavia map. We had played it once before, but many many moons ago.

The rules for this map are not much changed from the basic game. The ferries from the Ireland map are there, but the biggest change is the "Move by Sea" action. We quickly read the rules, set everything up... and stared blankly at the map. The distribution of cubes was such that there only appeared one viable starting location, and even then it wasn't clear where else you could go. I took an extra share in the first round and the other two didn't want to get into a pointless bidding war with me. Taking first build, I grabbed the Copenhagen-Helsingborg ferry. Adrian grabbed another ferry, and Ralph spent a while deliberating about which was the least worst starting position, before setttling on the bottom of the map.

Both Adrian and I were able to get some moderate shipping in early with Ralph slipping behind. However, by early midgame, he had built his locomtive up to a 4 link, and was able to ship all along the bottom of the board twice, for an income of 8 (twice) while I was shipping for no more than 6, and Adrian no more than 4. (One notable play involved Adrian shipping by sea a purple cube which I was relying on. When it came to pay my bills, I was one short, and had to move back on the income track from 8 to 7.) This gave Ralph a comfortable lead which he was never to lose.

With Ralph having finished building along the bottom of the board, I built out from Malmo to stop him expanding there. I still had some cubes I could ship for long routes at the end of the game, provided I could build the track in time. Ralph was now forced to compete in Denmark with Adrian.

Ralph did get his train up to a 6 link first, and started shipping big, which gave him a big lead. As I hoped by the last couple of turns his shipping was running out. I was on his tail and managed to complete my tour of north Sweden to give me some long routes at game end. In fact, I'd managed to close up to being only one income behind Ralph on the last turn.

Scoring: I'd taken one more share than Ralph, so I needed 6 more links built to tie. As it happened, Ralph had built the most links in the game as well. Final scores: Ralph 114, Huw 106, Adrian 80.

Thread: Re: Age of Steam Expansion #3: A Review for the Connoisseur

SouthernMan — 2006-07-21T17:34:44+00:00
You might have to re-rate the map now as it can cost a share a turn extra to build in some parts of the map

Thread: Re: Age of Steam Expansion #3: A Review for the Connoisseur

CortexBomb — 2006-07-21T01:00:40+00:00
Most intriguing, that was indeed the interpretation we had been running with.

In looking over the rules sheet, the reason for that interpretation is apparent: the English rules are the only ones that put a "+" symbol in front of the $3, while the German and French simply say that they cost $3 period. ("Huegel kosten $3" and "Construire sur les collines coute $3")

In retrospect, I would expect the English version of the rules to be the definitive word, but at least now the ambiguity is out in the open for debate...

Thread: Re: Age of Steam Expansion #3: A Review for the Connoisseur

SouthernMan — 2006-07-20T21:53:49+00:00
You said the mountains are slightly cheaper to build over - I take it you are comparing it to the base game where it costs $4 therefore you must have read the rules as saying it costs $3 to build over a mountain hex ?

The rules actually say they cost +$3 which we interpreted as +$3 on the cost of a standard hex i.e 2 + 3 = $5 per hex, which made the map even tougher .

What have others used as the cost for mountain hexes ?

Thread: Re: Age of Steam Expansion #3: A Review for the Connoisseur

facesnorth — 2006-07-20T06:04:24+00:00
I haven't tried Korea yet, and maybe I should. I have played Scandinavia a few times now with 3 players, and had a great time each game. We actually found the ferry action did not have to be overly powerful, depending on which cities you go after and how you build your network. While it certainly can help you, it's possible to create a mostly inland network that is immune to being hurt by the ferry. In fact, in our last game, often nobody went for the ferry because we didn't need to.

Ryan

Thread: Age of Steam Expansion #3: A Review for the Connoisseur

CortexBomb — 2006-07-20T01:44:06+00:00
Age of Steam Expansion #3: A Review for the Connoisseur

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Initial warning: this review, and all of the future reviews I do that are labelled "For the Conoisseur" are going to be reviews of expansions. This review assumes that you have familiarity with the base game prior to reading this, and gives my opinion on the value of the expansion for base game owners.
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Age of Steam expansion #3 is a double-sided board that contains two new maps: Scandinavia and Korea. Expansion #3 was released in a limited print run of 3000 pieces, and as of this writing (2006) it is still available for retail price (approximately 20 USD at online stores) but is starting to become harder to get a hold of. What follows here is a breakdown of each of these two boards, so that you can make a more informed buying decision.

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Scandinavia
The Scandinavian side of the board reminds one, at first glance, of Ireland. Like that map, there are fewer cities to begin the game, and a large amount of difficult terrain. In Scandinavia's case, that terrain takes the form of long distances between cities, and the existence of sea routes in the vital centre of the board.

Important changes

- The Ferry action is added to the game, this allows players to move a good from any seaside city to any seaside city. Almost all of the cities are bounded by water, so this is a very powerful action.

The only other truly unusual aspect of this map is the existence of Irish style sea routes which cost 6$ and effectively function the same as rail links within the game. Unlike Ireland, they are not off the coast to isolate cities though. Instead, they are clustered on the centre of the board, and it can be crucial to gain control of them if one wants to form a circle route.

Scale
Scandinavia, like Ireland, is clearly intended for smaller groups of 3-4 players. The number of water hexes limits the amount of build able territory, and there are not that many cities on the board to begin the game.

How Challenging is this map?
Challenging play can take a couple of forms, and this expansion highlights that. On one hand, Scandinavia is not particularly hard to get into the black on, certainly no more so than on a normal AoS map. The existence of the ferry allows players to get maximum length shipments slightly more easily, and the terrain is not overly harsh.

On the flip side; the ferry also can lead to a runaway leader syndrome, which makes the positioning for that role extremely important on this map. Because of the nature of the ferry, the person taking it is generally guaranteed to get one maximum length shipment, and additionally, they are probably also going to be able to steal that good from one of their opponents. This double-up is very powerful, and players have to be in position to jockey for the role effectively in the late game, or they will likely end up in trouble.

On a scale of 1-5, with 1 being the base game, I would rate this a 3 in terms of difficulty.

What do I think of it?
Scandinavia is an interesting map, but I ultimately have decided that I don't care for it. When I first sat down with the map I enjoyed the terrain features and the insidious design; many of the cities are exactly 4 hexes apart, and the map seems to make players desire several roles each round...that's the good. The bad is that the ferry both dulls down the auction by creating another power role, and it also can lead to severe end game problems. The player who is in the lead has to be prevented from continually taking the ferry, because if they do, they are not only increasing their lead further, they are also taking valuable potential shipments away from the other players. Moreso than many maps, I feel that this map's end game often falters as a result.

My final call:
I initially quite liked Scandinavia, mainly for its novelty, and because it is one of the maps that is clearly developed with a smaller group in mind, but ultimately it fell out of favour because of the perceived issues with the ferry. Decent expansion, but there are better options out there.

=========================================================================================

Korea
Looking at Korea for the first time, the thing that stands out the most is the incredibly mountainous terrain. Around half of the map is covered with that terrain type, and the early going can be tough because of that. The other thing that is immediately apparent is that none of the cities are coloured, and this ties into the highlight of this oddball map: the way the cities change colour depending on what goods are currently available to be shipped within them.

Important changes

- As referenced above, the cities have no inherent demand for goods, and they accept shipments based on the colour of the goods that are already present. Thus, if you ship the only red good out of a city, it no longer accepts red goods.

The only other changes to the rules are minor, mountains cost slightly less than usual to build on, and there are some of the impassable black lines that were first seen on the Irish board.

Scale
The size of the Korean map, and the number of cities present on it seem to indicate that Korea was intended for 4-5 players, but that scale has become a point of contention. Some players, myself included, feel that the map also plays well with 3, because the chaos factor of the continual colour changes is lessened at the smaller scale, making the game more enjoyable.

How Challenging is this map?
Korea is quite challenging, on a couple of fronts. The city colour changing aspect is certainly the big one. Unlike conventional AoS, players are forced to pay very close attention to each and every goods shipment that the opposition make, because shipments not only generate income for that player, they also often change the colour of the cities on the board, which complicates decision making considerably. Additionally, the extra cost of building track in Korea due to the extremely large number of mountains can make getting off the ground more difficult than usual.

On a scale of 1-5, with the base game being 1, I would rate this game a 4 in terms of difficulty. It is certainly only suggested for experienced AoS players.

What do I think of it?
Korea seems to be a love it or hate it map, and I'm on the love it end of things. I do enjoy it with a smaller scale, which means there are more options for track building than usual vis a vis many maps; but I find the challenge of the city colour changing can make playing this map a real treat. I might also add that I find it enjoyable to finally play a map where production is a true power role, as a well timed production action can change the colour of a city on the board and make a long goods shipment possible.

My final call:
Korea is a map that is best suited for AoS players who are quite experienced, and who don't mind playing something that is a significant change of pace from the standard game. It is certainly more chaotic than the normal game because of the city colour changes, but I find the unique questions that this map poses worth answering.

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Summary of Total Value
This map package is still available for retail, and as such, it is a good investment for any small to midsize group of Age of Steam players. The Scandinavian board, in my experience, has some issues with balance, but it is certainly worth a play or two for smaller groups, simply to experience the novelty of the ferry and the excellent physical layout of the map. Korea is a real keeper though, and it is one of the most significant alterations to the AoS system that has come down the pike thus far. Some people will be turned off by the chaos that it injects into the system, but as I alluded to above, that can be mitigated and made more tolerable by playing at a lower scale.

Overall:
A good buy for small to midsize groups, particularly those who enjoy the sound of Korea and the unique challenges that it offers. Given the rarity of Expansion #1, this is also a decent compromise purchase for groups of 3, as the Scandinavian board, while it has issues, does seem to scale well to 3.

Final Note:
I do anticipate this board going up in value soon though, and when it does the value will be more questionable, as I do not believe that Scandinavia has long term replay value, and Korea can end up being either a hit or a miss depending on the temperament of your group. This is one map, that once collectible, will definitely be a try before you buy recommendation from me because of these factors.

Thread: Re: What is Suwon (between Inchon & Seoul) ?

SouthernMan — 2006-07-17T21:09:42+00:00
I'mnot that keen on it after getting absolutely pummelled in our only play (4 player) and getting my worst ever (by a long way) score ... made the mistake in trying to compete against two different players instead of just finding a corner for myself

Thread: Re: What is Suwon (between Inchon & Seoul) ?

clearclaw — 2006-07-15T23:32:38+00:00
rri1 wrote:
Clearclaw *****HATES***** the Korea map so any answers he gives may be suspect.

Hate is a bit strong. I don't like the Korea map certainly and I'll generally avoid it in favour of other maps, but hate? No.

Thread: Re: What is Suwon (between Inchon & Seoul) ?

rri1 — 2006-07-15T22:27:38+00:00
Clearclaw *****HATES***** the Korea map so any answers he gives may be suspect.

But, yes, it is city, it starts with 2 cubes, but since it has no number, it does not get any cubes in the production phase.