Game: Camelot

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mdu2boy — 2008-06-27T02:05:35+00:00

From Bobby Tweak's game night

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Mr Penguin — 2007-08-17T05:53:44+00:00

Gold used in the "Buying the Kingship" variation.

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Mr Penguin — 2007-08-17T05:52:44+00:00

The two turn counters that are the key to the lightning game system.

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Mr Penguin — 2007-08-17T05:51:05+00:00

The accoutrements of kingship.

Thread: Enemy Movement Through Entry Hex

kieron — 2007-02-21T21:22:43+00:00

The rules are unclear (to me) as to whether an enemy ARTHUR can move THROUGH my entry hex.

It is clear that he can't end his movement there...

Can anyone clear this up for me?

Thread: Re: Questions about the lightning system

Son of Murray — 2007-01-08T21:02:19+00:00

Cavetroll wrote:
3. There aren't any others yet available. We've planned on doing a vampire/undead version, with a twist (players move "communal" monsters, too), and a western version. Much of this depends upon the success of Camelot, and how people respond to the whole concept.

I just wanted to say that I've recently received Camelot as a late Christmas gift, and I can't wait to try it (I HATE HATE HATE waiting for my turn). And, I love undead, so I'll be looking forward to any future versions you may design!

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Mr Penguin — 2006-11-10T20:57:11+00:00

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Mr Penguin — 2006-11-10T20:44:43+00:00

The starting bits for green.

Thread: ERRATA

kuhrusty — 2006-11-08T09:22:27+00:00

Note that movement is prohibited into trees, rocks, and water hexes! http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/69056 (This is also on Wingnut Games' site at http://www.wingnutgames.com/camelot.htm. The rules available for download here don't appear to have the correction.)

(Incidentally, it's clearly a brilliant game. And I'm certainly not just saying that because I won all three of the games we played tonight, despite everyone being clear on the need to stop me, ha ha ha.)

Thread: Still not sure about this one....

mpetty31 — 2006-01-15T22:20:27+00:00

Players: Kendra, Greg, Paul, Al and myself

Like others have noted here, this game requires everyone to know every rule. That's a negative right off the bat, but I wanted to enjoy this game. It was my second playing (the first didn't fare well), but noone else here had played it.

With five players, two of us were quickly out of the action. Paul made a fast race back to his entry hex and Greg and I held him off a mere two squares away. Al and Kendra were too far away to help or do much of anything.

Now, what struck me as odd is how long the game seems to last. I guess I had this impression that it would breeze by. Games only last around 20 minutes. However, that's 20 minutes of nearly constant activity. You end up taking many, many turns and it actually gets a little tedious.

In this game, Paul eventually won due to a mistake I made.

Reactions as I perceived them:
Me - I'll try it again. I like Tom Jolly's innovative efforts. I think there's a fun game here if everyone gets it.

Al and Kendra - They'd probably rather play LCR.

Paul and Greg - Ok game, but let's not try it again just now. Maybe in 6 months.

Thread: Lancelot's Sweeping Attack

birdbrain — 2006-01-08T17:45:49+00:00

When Lancelot uses a sweeping attack, is he required to attack every enemy that is adjacent or can he pick and choose (to avoid unsuccessful attacks)?

Thread: Re: Camelot Movement Question

Cavetroll — 2005-09-27T15:05:42+00:00

Hi, Paul. Yes, that's correct. Rocks and trees are the same and block LOS. Water blocks movement but not LOS.
Tom

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shannona — 2005-09-19T12:17:02+00:00

Thread: Re: [Review] Camelot

Spatulaguy — 2005-09-12T22:37:13+00:00

It's only a model...

Thread: Re: [Review] Camelot

GROGnads — 2005-09-09T22:34:34+00:00

''Let's not go! It's a 'silly' place!''

Thread: Re: Camelot Movement Question

Psauberer — 2005-09-08T01:22:55+00:00

So does this mean that rocks and trees are functionally identical and that water is the same for movement, but does not block LOS?

Thread: [Review] Camelot

TomVasel — 2005-09-07T14:06:49+00:00

Absolute chaos. A descent into unbridled madness. Anarchy in a board game form. I think that Tom Jolly's Camelot (Wingnut Games, 2005 - Tom Jolly) could easily fit any of those descriptions. Our first game was a madhouse, and subsequent games were no different. Camelot has made some news since the main mechanic of the game, the "Lightning System", was patented - something odd for a board game mechanic. Was the patent warranted, and the game any good?

Opinions are going to vary widely on the game. Some of the players absolutely hated the speed and chaos of the game. Others, including myself, reveled in it and had a blast! Either way, the Lightning system, which I found quite innovative, certainly prevents downtime, as players struggle to play the game as fast as they can. I found the insanity full of merriment, but it's certain that Camelot is not for everyone. Still, if you have someone who is afflicted with "analysis paralysis" (takes forever to do their turn), then Camelot is a lot of fun to introduce them to!

The theme of the game is based on the fact that there were many "Arthurs" in the days of ancient England, and each player uses their "Merlins" and others to try to get their "Arthur" to claim Excalibur. A mapboard is placed in the middle of the table, depicting a hex grid of England, complete with stone, forest, and water hexes. An Excalibur token is placed on a hex near the middle of the board, and each player takes fifteen adventurer pieces (five Arthurs, four Galahads, four Lancelots, one Merlin, and one Morgan) as well as four other tokens (teleport, fireball, death touch, and entry hex) in their color. Players place their pieces face up in front of themselves, and two players are randomly determined to get one each of the two "Turn" tokens. Players, in turn order (starting with a high roller), place their entry hex somewhere on the board - on the edge and at least five spaces away from another player, and the game is ready to go.

The way the "Lightning" system works is thus: When a player has a turn token in front of them, they take their turn. After finishing, they pass the turn token to the next player on their left who does not already have a turn token. Therefore, if a player takes a long time on their turn, the other turn token can pass right by them, and they lose turns as a result! On a player's turn, they simply place and/or move two units on the board, starting from the entry hex. Each character has different attack, defense, and move values:
- Arthur: Move 2, Attack 1, Defend 1, Range 1
- Lancelot: Move 1, Attack 2, Defend 2, Range 1, Sweeping blow
- Galahad: Move 1, Attack 1, Defend 1, Range 3
- Merlin: Move 1, Attack 1, Defend 1, Range 3, Teleport, Fireball
- Morgan: Move 1, Attack 1, Defend 2, Range 2, Death Touch, Resurrection
Players may move but not through water, rocks, or trees. If a piece is next to an opponent's piece, they may not move away unless both players agree to disengage. Players may not move through other pieces, even their own.

Players may declare attack, but must do so before they move. They can declare as many attacks as they wish, as long as the attack is possible. For an attack to succeed, a player must be able to EXCEED the defending player's defense number with one or more pieces. Ranged units are blocked by trees and rock, but not water. If the attack succeeds (everything freezes for a moment to check), then the defender dies and is removed from the game (not permanently, if Arthur). If the attack does not succeed - because of some oversight by the attacker, then one of the attacking pieces is killed. Each unit can only attack once per turn (except Lancelot, who can attack all adjacent units with one attack, rather than two.) Merlin and Morgan also have special attacks (fireball and death touch) that they can use for more damage, but the counter representing those attacks is then discarded. Also, Merlin can discard the teleport token to move anywhere on the board.

The first person to get the sword (which only an Arthur may carry) back to their starting hex is the winner! If the Arthur carrying the sword is killed, then the sword drops to that hex.

Some comments about the game…

1.) Components: The artwork on the box is pretty cool, and the humorous theme just has me chuckling at the insanity of it all. The counters themselves are hexes - each teams with a different background color. The hexes have useful information on them - swords and shields to show fighting values, and triangles to show movement. How to move and fight with each piece is fairly intuitive, but even if not, another large hex is provided that shows the stats of each piece. The two large turn hexes are fairly durable, which is good, because they are being thrown around the table at a fast clip for the entire game. The only problem I had with all the hexes was that they didn't punch very well and needed to be clipped to look nice. A pile of extra hexes were included in the bag - I guess you could add dozens of variants if you like. I had to bag everything so that it stored in the box, but once bagged, everything fit under the four-way folding map board. Camelot's components aren't stellar, but they are passable. Everything fits inside the small box, which is very similar in size to Fantasy Flight's Silver Line.

2.) Rules: The rules come in a four page booklet, and explain the game fairly well, although I think they could have been better written. Movement wasn't very clear, although Mr. Jolly did clarify it online. Still, the game is fairly easy to teach, although the game doesn't make for the best teaching atmosphere. See, when I teach games, I still end up teaching the rules during the first several turns. In Camelot, the game is moving at such a feverish pitch that it's difficult to keep track and make sure everyone's following the rules. Some rules questions came up, and the game does allow for a "time out" to answer rules questions. We used this a LOT.

3.) Speed: People who like to take a long time during their turn will HATE this game, as there is a constant pressure to hurry, hurry, hurry. In the games I played, people were getting passed continuously, and sometimes players moved, simply to move. Shouting and yelling occurred, punctuated by occasional (okay, frequent) attacks and "time outs". You can't take your eye off the game for a second, because there is something happening at all times.

4.) Benefits of speed: There are some good benefits to this type of speed in a game. For one, I would never play a game such as Camelot without it - it's a little too wargamish for me, even though I do enjoy the "capture the flag" type theme. But when you add in the speed, it's just my type of game. Secondly, the "analysis paralysis" types who can be quite annoying in a tactical game such as this, simply can't afford to be slow. And if they do insist on moving slowly, the rest of us can do our turns quickly!

5.) Disadvantages of speed: Obviously a game like this is going to annoy the snot out of a person who likes taking at least a little time to think. It's also hard to plan any kind of long range strategy, as things happen too fast for you to do anything but act and react with your troops. Also, it's entirely possible for people to cheat; and no one may notice, because they are watching their own pieces. Now I'm not so worried about intentional cheating with the players I game with, but accidental rule violations can happen frequently; and because the game is moving at such a break neck speed, no one may see them.

6.) Variants: There are several variants included in the game, along with corresponding pieces. In one of them, players vie for the "accoutrements of kingship", four different items, rather than a single sword. In another, coins worth varying amounts are scattered around the board, and players hurry to get fifteen points worth of gold so that they can "buy" the kingship. If you thought the game was chaotic, these variants don't make it any less so. It's like playing football with multiple balls in play. Interesting, but the basic game pleases me just fine, thank you!

7.) Strategy: The game is too fast to have any.

8.) Tactics: Players must remember to always be moving their Arthurs into position to pick up the sword. Several times, players would get caught up in a war with another player, while the others battled over the sword. Destroying your enemies is NOT the point of the game, yet players often feel it necessary, because it's so easy to get involved in. Mostly, there isn't much involved in the game, other than "He's got the sword! Get him!".

9.) Fun Factor: For me, the game was outrageously fun. Everyone shouts at the same time, yelling about the rules, who has killed who, who has the sword now, where are the turn tokens, what can Merlin do with the teleport?, etc. I don't normally want this level of chaos in a game, but every once in a while, it's just fun to let it all go. Camelot is sort of like Pit combined with a simple tactical war game. Sound fun? It does to me.

This is certainly a game that will be divisive. I think it's either a like it or hate it type game, because some of those who played swore they would never touch it again. Others said that it was a fun experience, but they had their fill. Still others, including me, thought that it was a hilarious game and were willing to play again easily. Which group do you belong to? It depends if you're in the mood for a frenzied, fast war-type game in which speed is important and strategy isn't.

Tom Vasel
"Real men play board games."
www.tomvasel.com

Thread: Re: Questions about the lightning system

Cavetroll — 2005-07-10T16:53:53+00:00

1. It IS crazy, and a little chaotic, but you can keep track of what's going on, in general. Sometimes, if the action gets heated in one part of the board (someone is about to attack you), then someone else might try to position themselves against you in another part of the board. It's not impossible to take your time on your turn to keep track of everything, but if you try to do so, it will slow your turn down. That's not necessarily a bad thing, I've discovered.

2. Generally you can tell at a glance (1 or 2 seconds) whether the attack is legitimate or not. The combat system is very, very simple and fast. Of course, if you trust the other players (rather important in this game), then you could just let them resolve it. When someone attacks, however, they usually bring it to your attention by tapping on the piece and telling you directly, "I'm attacking your piece", so you're forced to at least glance at it. Since it won't be during your turn, most of the time, this shouldn't slow you down.

3. There aren't any others yet available. We've planned on doing a vampire/undead version, with a twist (players move "communal" monsters, too), and a western version. Much of this depends upon the success of Camelot, and how people respond to the whole concept.

4. Six years old might be pushing it. It IS easy to learn, so a smart 6 year old should be able to pick it up, but the realtime mechanic is so far off the norm that it might be confusing to him/her, compared to generic turn-based mechanics which every child learns. I'd probably teach him/her to play Pit, first, just to get used to non-serial games.

Thread: Questions about the lightning system

Sky Knight X — 2005-07-07T00:17:55+00:00

1. Does the lightning system get too crazy and chaotic, or can the players keep track of what is going on around them?

2. When it is my turn, and another player attacks me, do I need to stop what I am doing to watch and validate his attack, or do I just keep on going and trust that all the rules are being correctly followed?

3. Are there other games with the lightning system available? Are there any planned for the future?

4. I have a 6 year old. He plays many games designed for older ages. Would he be able to handle Camelot and the lighning system?

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Fishbulb — 2005-07-05T18:20:24+00:00

Thread: Re: When does combat take place?

Cavetroll — 2005-06-27T03:45:32+00:00

Thanks, Jeff. I'm glad you've enjoyed it.

Players cannot move after combat. This is primarily to deal with the timing issues, which can be somewhat critical in the game, so it's; "Declare all your attacks, move (2 pieces), resolve attacks." Of course, it's possible to declare attacks that do not require movement to complete their attacks, in which case you can declare an attack, move 2 unrelated pieces, then resolve the attacks.

If you want to play with a house rule that allows you to move after an attack IF you have movement left over, I don't have an issue with that, and most of the time I don't think it'll cause a problem. I was trying to make the system straightforward enough that nobody could argue about it!

Tom

Thread: When does combat take place?

peacmyer — 2005-06-24T19:00:05+00:00

Nice game, Tom, but have a question for you.

When exactly can combat take place? Do you have to move your two characters and then execute combat? Or, can you execute combat and then move?

Thread: Re: Camelot Movement Question

Cavetroll — 2005-06-22T18:08:17+00:00

No, you can't move through water, rocks, or trees. Can't believe we missed that on the proofreading and playtesting.
Thanks,
Tom Jolly

Thread: Camelot Movement Question

BSynnott — 2005-06-22T14:13:15+00:00

Can pieces move onto water/forest/mountain spaces? The rulebook covers the line of sight issue but doesn't mention movement.
Thanks,
Bob

Thread: Review of Tom Jolly's Camelot

tomg — 2005-06-07T19:54:34+00:00

I was able to play this game a couple of time over Memorial Day weekend at a local San Francisco Bay Area game convention, Kublacon. I was even lucky enough to be introduced to the game by its designer, Tom Jolly. So here are in impression of the game.

Overview:

Opening the colorful box reveals what appears to be an ordinary board game. But the "Lightning Game System" rules add an unusual element to the game play and turn it into an intense playing experience. More on this later.

This is a game for 3 to 6 players, and the normal playing time is a half hour. The goal of the game is for the players to use their characters, one per counter, to grap Excaliber and get it off the board first. There are some variations in the rules to keep the game interesting.

Components:

The full color hex mapboard is mounted on cardboard and measures 16" by 16". The board artwork is decent and includes forest, water, rocks and open hexes.

There are 152 playing pieces. This include 2 turn markers, characters, spells, items and gold pieces. Each player gets one set of character counters. Each character counter shows the character's head along with icons for movement rate, attack strenght and defense value. The counters are hexagon shaped and measure 1" from side to side.

Each player gets 5 Arthur counters (Arthur is the only one who can pick up Excaliber), 4 Galahads counters (he is armed with a bow), 4 Lancelot counters (he has a strong attack), 1 Merlin and 1 Morgan.

The rules are 4 - 8.5" by 11" pages of a decent size type,
my older eyes had no trouble reading them. In the rules are a few decent black and white illustrations. The rules are easy to understand and will take only a few minutes to read or explain to someone.

The artwork on the box cover is by the Fraim Brothers and is well done, colorful and humorous.

All in all, good components espcially considering the price of the game is only $20 USD.

The Game Play:

This is only an quick overview. The full rules can be seen in the files section.

Each turn a player will move up to two characters and make any attacks they wish with those characters. Characters cannot move through forest, water, rocks or other characters.

More than one character, even those from different players, can attack the same target. Galahad with his bow and Merlin's or Morgan's magic need not be adjacent to attack if they are in range and have a clear line of sight. All other characters must be adjacent to attack. Combat is resolved by comparing the total attack strength of all attackers to the target's defense value. If the attack strength is greater then the target is removed from the board.

In some cases characters that have been removed due to combat can be brought back. Any Arthur can be brought back and any character who died within sight of their Morgan can also be brought back.

Merlin and Morgan have spells that they can use. Each has an attack spell that can be used over and over again. Merlin's is Zot and Morgan's is Curse. In addition they have spells which they can use only once per game. Morgan has the Death Touch spell which is a stronger attack. Merlin has Fireball for his stronger attack and Teleport which he can use to move to any open space on the board.

Lightning Game System:

What makes this game unique is what Tom Jolly calls his Lightning Game System. During the game two players will always be playing at the same time. There are simple rules to resolve conflicts such as one player attacking a target that the other player wants to move.

There are two turn markers to indicate which of the players may take their moves. When a player is done with their turn, they pass the turn marker on to the next player to their left who does not have the other turn marker. This means that there is not set order in which the players take their turns. It all depends on how long each player takes to do their move.

This encourages players not to take a long time to make their moves. The designer told me that he created this system because he wanted a why to discourage those people who take a long to time to analaze and make their moves. It does accomplish that. The game play goes quickly and adds an intensity to the game that would not otherwise exist.

I am hoping to see other games by Tom Jolly use this system.

Summary:

This is a very good game, easy to learn, quick to play, and lots of excitement. Once I was introduced to the game, I liked it enough to immediately go and buy myself a copy. I think Tom Jolly has given us a great game. Not bad for only $20 USD.

Enjoy,
Tom

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Wingnut — 2005-02-23T17:06:36+00:00

Camelot Box Top

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Wingnut — 2005-02-23T17:06:36+00:00

Camelot Box Bottom