Game: Carcassonne - The Princess & the Dragon

Thread: Re: Before you buy...

jrebelo — 2008-10-02T21:00:07+00:00

Thanks for the review. I was always a bit on the fence about this set. I have the base carc game along with Inns & Cathedrals and Traders & Builders and I think the three together make an absolute knockout combo. I just tried Princess & Dragon on brettspielwelt and I can conclude that I do not like it. Your review describes it quite well that brings a lot more randomness to the game (which some people may enjoy) as well as more conflict (likewise), but personally, I prefer the more controlled chaos of the sets I own. There's randomness as far as which tile you get, but beyond that, it lets you execute your plans and I think one of the nice things about Carcassonne is that it doesn't have much confrontation as far as screwing around other players. Obviously usurping someone's fields or developments is an important element, but I think that's enough to make it fun to play with my girlfriend or non-gamers. Introducing more aggressive sabotage elements (In my opinion) makes it less desirable for these sorts of games and makes it more geared towards competitive/experienced players. And all that aside, I just don't care for the feel of it as much and I also don't like the fantasy element, but that's totally just my tastes.

Thread: P&D and Count of Carcassonne

ryoon03 — 2008-09-27T15:05:45+00:00

I am thinking of picking up a mini-expansion that would: 1) go well with Princess & Dragon, and 2) work better with more players playing.

Does anyone recommend Count of Carcassonne, or any of the other mini-expansions? Or do they not go well with P&D?

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rober — 2008-08-12T12:24:22+00:00

Thread: Re: Princess - Closing a city and removing a knight

Andrew Snyder — 2008-07-17T15:05:51+00:00

Remove the knight first. The rule of thumb is: move a meeple, score, eat things.

move a meeple: put a meeple on the tile just played OR
move the fairy OR
place the dragon(*) on the just played volcano OR
remove a knight from a city with the princess(*) OR
use the secret passage on the just placed tile to put a meeple on an uncompleted feature.

If you can do an (*) action, you must do that.

Thread: Princess - Closing a city and removing a knight

jfgagnon — 2008-07-17T14:43:00+00:00

Just to be sure...

Do we remove a knight before the scoring is done for a completed city?

My opponant has a knight in a city with only one edge "free", and I add a tile with one city "edge" and the princess symbol. Do we score the city first, or do we remove the knight? If we remove the knight, does it means that the points for this city will never be counted?

Thanks...

JF

Thread: Re: The Princess and the Dragon (and the Fairy)

beckeykevin — 2008-04-30T16:33:30+00:00

I would suggest the Volcano as the 2 point deduction, since there are only 6 Volcano tiles compared to 12 Dragon tiles.

Thread: Re: The Princess and the Dragon (and the Fairy)

Teriyaki Donuts — 2008-04-30T15:38:21+00:00

Although the "Carcassonne Purists" will poopoo your ideas as "taking away from the original flavor of the game," I like your scoring options for those specific tiles.

Well done!

Thread: Re: First P&D play and a few questions

jedimusic — 2008-04-23T15:14:08+00:00

I like P&D too, but have had wildly varying responses from people I've played with. The crux having to do with the introduction of fiddly rule conflicts (a few you mentioned above). You kind of have to memorize priorities/exceptions and have a rulebook handy ("is it a follower or not a follower?", "which occurs first?" et. al.) when you play - which can be off-putting for casual gamers. And the "official" rulings are not always intuitive.

And if you combine with other expansions, it gets even more complex...

Thread: Re: Dragon "path of destruction" Markers.

kevster — 2008-04-23T14:59:02+00:00

This is a good idea. You'd think it'd be simple to remember 6 moves (and for most people I'm sure it is) but the 3 of us playing actually had a little bit of a tough time. This will help.

Thread: Re: First P&D play and a few questions

kevster — 2008-04-23T14:51:26+00:00

thank you very much for your replys. It helps out a lot!

Thread: Re: First P&D play and a few questions

freduk — 2008-04-23T08:06:18+00:00

kevster wrote:
1) Is it normal to move the fairy just about every time you draw a dragon tile in order to protect your followers. This is how it was for us early in the game with our small board, but maybe not as much later on.

2) a. If you place a princess tile in such a way as to boot out a knight it says you may not play a follower. May you still move the fairy?
b. When you place a volcano tile it says you may not place a follower (obviously because the dragon is now there). May you still move the fairy?

3) I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this last one but wanted to make sure: The dragon must always be moved onto a TILE, correct? Meaning he can't be placed on a spot without a tile in order to get to another part of the board that would be unreachable otherwise...

1) Probably this happened because you had a small, cramped board. I've found that the fairy only gets moved if a meeple can't be more usefully placed.

2) a & b. Yes. Moving the fairy is always an option.

3) You are correct. The dragon can't be moved off the known world.

Thread: First P&D play and a few questions

kevster — 2008-04-23T07:05:04+00:00

Tonight we threw in P&D for the first time. 3 player game. I've now played this expansion, I&C and T&B. P&D is my current favorite.

After this first play I have a few questions. I think some of these arose because we drew a volcano tile extremely early and that led to a lot of carnage with such a small playing area. But it would be nice to know the answers nonetheless:

1) Is it normal to move the fairy just about every time you draw a dragon tile in order to protect your followers. This is how it was for us early in the game with our small board, but maybe not as much later on.

2) a. If you place a princess tile in such a way as to boot out a knight it says you may not play a follower. May you still move the fairy?
b. When you place a volcano tile it says you may not place a follower (obviously because the dragon is now there). May you still move the fairy?

3) I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this last one but wanted to make sure: The dragon must always be moved onto a TILE, correct? Meaning he can't be placed on a spot without a tile in order to get to another part of the board that would be unreachable otherwise...

Thanks for any help. It appears that this expansion is disliked by many, but I really enjoyed it!

Thread: Dragon Dragon, Where is the Dragon?

sarquin — 2008-04-06T15:30:07+00:00

Session Report: 2-Player's

My wife and I have drastically different playing styles. I guess I am to used to playing with the fellas over beer and do not think twice about messing with my neighbor. So, enough of the background, enter the dragon!

It was a typical night. Kids in bed, what to play? So we broke out Carcassonne and threw in the Princess and Dragon. We had a pretty established board before the first volcano was drawn. My wife drew the volcano and quickly placed it near my cluster of farmer, and two on-going cities. Ok, good move. And the dragon game was on!

I drew another volcano quickly moving the dragon to the other side of the map by her knight and thief. A got a disgruntled look, but the game continued. She quickly drew the first dragon tile for the night. Immediately I started going over move scenarios in my head trying to anticipate movement. Excelent! It looked like I could get her knight, but not her farmer. She immediately makes a bad move with the dragon and allows me to get bother her knight and farmer.

For the rest of the night whenever she moved the dragon, she just placed it in some out of the way spot as to keep it anywhere away from her people.

In the end, I won this one, but not because of the dragon. I actually think I had more people eaten than she did, but it seemed her people always got eaten in some grand fashion!

Happy gaming!

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ZockErik — 2008-03-25T21:26:48+00:00

Get the real 3D Experience with the inoffical Taluva Add-On

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silvanus321 — 2008-03-20T06:40:28+00:00

Dragon Slayer

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aquarian — 2008-01-04T15:14:15+00:00

Finnish version Prinsessa ja Lohikäärme

Thread: Re: The Tower and the Dragon

ColtsFan76 — 2007-12-28T21:17:20+00:00

The dragon eats any meeple on the tile - regardless of what feature it is on - farm, road, city, cloister, or tower.

Thread: Re: The Tower and the Dragon

rhox — 2007-12-28T19:08:11+00:00

Hi, I play so the dragon can take the meeple on a tower, it does state in the P/D rule book any meeple in the tile space the dragon enters is retuned to its owner, Dragons fly after all and the job of the dragon in carcassonne is to cause disruption and chaos as I see it.
Also although the castle and cloister tiles are flat these could also be very tall in reality and the dragon can get to these pesky meeples.
It would be interesting to hear how other gamers play this out.
Long live the meeple.

Thread: The Tower and the Dragon

ExcitingJeff — 2007-12-28T18:37:09+00:00

When playing a game that combines the Tower with the Princess and the Dragon, what happens when a dragon goes onto a space that has a meeple "capping off" the tower (preventing it from becoming taller)? I ended up doing it to one of my own pieces in a game last night, effectively freeing up a meeple that was no longer required. It had the feel of an illegal move about it, but farmers are supposed to be permanent, too, and the dragon can remove them.

Any thoughts?

Thread: Re: Terrible

Froste Roste — 2007-12-26T07:36:29+00:00

I looked at getting that expansion pack and I thought it looked "iffy." However, I have played with the River, River II (we combine them into one big river), Inns & Cathedrals, and the new Abbey & Mayor (which is an incredible expansion, best one yet). The game doesn't take a whole lot longer now that we're all used to the rules, but the strategy has become a whole lot deeper. If you had to buy only one expansion, I would recommend the new Abbey & Mayor.

If you were unhappy with the Princess & Dragon, I would also be wary of the Count expansion, as it looks like it has more to do with luck than strategy.

I have yet to play with the Tower or the Traders and Builders expansions yet, but I hope to soon.

Thread: Re: Magic gate question: two meeples on one tile

markrollings — 2007-11-27T10:39:08+00:00

BSW won't allow two meeples on the same tile

Thread: Re: Playing without the base set

OldestManOnMySpace — 2007-11-18T19:41:10+00:00

stormseeker75 wrote:
Yes, you have to. I didn't use the Super Meeple from Inns and Cathedrals, but I probably will next time.
It would be an interesting variant, using only the big meeple. Maybe a few normal meeples, but it would be interesting to try the game with very few meeples. It would either suck or not suck.

Thread: Re: Playing without the base set

stormseeker75 — 2007-11-18T18:55:23+00:00

Yes, you have to. I didn't use the Super Meeple from Inns and Cathedrals, but I probably will next time. This was the only time I wished I had Trader & Builders.

Thread: Re: Playing without the base set

OldestManOnMySpace — 2007-11-18T00:16:13+00:00

You still use meeples from the base set, though, right?

Thread: Re: Playing without the base set

Rygel — 2007-11-17T18:14:34+00:00

This is an interesting idea. I will try this over the Thanksgiving break.

Thread: Playing without the base set

stormseeker75 — 2007-11-17T15:04:45+00:00

Bianca and I love to play Carc with the base set and the Princess and the Dragon expansion. We find P&D really helps balance the game for us and puts her in a competitive position.

I've been on a quest lately to get one play of every game in my collection. I don't log plays of expansions, so my Carc expansions show no activity. To get around this, I decided that we should try playing without the base game and use P&D, Inns and Cathedrals, The River, and the Mini Expansion so I can log a play of each expansion.

We used the River expansion as our base for starting the game. This was a really unique experiment because neither of us was familiar enough with any of the expansions to know what was coming. This resulted in some bad plays and a lot more luck than usual.

The key play was my biggest gamble. Bianca was working on a huge city. I was working towards connecting to it when I drew a Cathedral which would bridge the gap. I figured that I would be comfortable with neither of us scoring points for it. On Bianca's next turn, she drew a tile and made the effort to connect into our big city. Her gamble paid off as she was able to complete the city in her next two turns and sccored 50 points. That was the turning point because the final score ended up 127-86. The game could have gone either way, but she pulled out a gutsy victory.

I'd recommend people try the game without the base set and just use a bunch of expansions. Its a really interesting way to add some freshness to Carc. The game becomes almost entirely tactical because nobody knows whats coming and players are forced to make decisions on the spot.

Here's a picture of what the map looked like at the end of the game:
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Thread: Re: A Newbie Couple's Review of the Princess and the Dragon

leungd — 2007-10-29T19:24:52+00:00

We found the Princess and the Dragon to be okay, probably a little underrated here on bgg. For us, it feels like the expansion that changes the game the most, which is why we don't play it as often. Still, there really are few things more fun than slowly marching the dragon over and chomping on some unsuspecting meeples...

We haven't tried Carcassonne: The Castle yet. It looks intriguing since it's a dedicated two player Carc game, but to get more gaming variety, we've always ended up getting different games. Plus, I'm not sure if we can wrap our heads around having the tiles not match edges... But it's definitely something we need to try. Thanks for the recommendation!

Thread: Re: A Newbie Couple's Review of the Princess and the Dragon

Social Work Dad — 2007-10-29T17:59:23+00:00

A good, well-balanced review. We found that the dragon didn't add much to the 2-player game but is great fun with 3+. It's particularly good fun with our friends who are far better 'farmer placers' than us..... we sit back and watch them get eaten! Agree about the fairies extra point - we've wondered about a joke hat or something that moves from player to player appropriately and should help you remember.

Re tiles in expansions; we took a small photo of the extra tiles in each expansion and keep it in the relevant game to aid tile sorting if we want to remove a specific exspansion.

Have you tried 'Carcassonne The Castle'? It's easily one of the best 2-player games ever.....

Thread: Re: A Newbie Couple's Review of the Princess and the Dragon

stormseeker75 — 2007-10-29T17:52:34+00:00

This is the only Carc expansion that I really truly enjoy. While the Dragon isn't as dangerous as he's made out to be, the Princess tiles and the Fairy can swing a game big time. Nothing worse than getting kicked out of a city you were working so hard for just to have your opponent steal it at the next chance. The Fairy is also good because she can give a lot of points to your opponent if you aren't careful. In multi-player she's probably a lot less influential, but for 2 players, she can be a game breaker.

Thread: Re: A Newbie Couple's Review of the Princess and the Dragon

quartex — 2007-10-29T16:04:47+00:00

I agree that if with 2 players it is hard for the dragon to munch meeples, but if you place the dragon tile at the edge of the board, next of an opponent's meeples, you can still force that meeple to get eaten, since it's the old possible move the dragon can make.

Of course in bigger games it's fun to watch players gang up on the guy in the lead and concentrate on eating his meeples.

Thread: A Newbie Couple's Review of the Princess and the Dragon

leungd — 2007-10-29T07:07:01+00:00

My girlfriend and I are relative newbies to the world of boardgaming, and we have been playing a lot of "gateway games", trying to lead up to more "gamer games". Of course, many of these games have been reviewed to death, so I won't try and explain the rules over again, but try and give our perspective as a newbie couple trying out these new fangled boardgames.

Carcassonne has become one of the classic gateway games. It was our gateway game, and a game that we've taught to many friends. Moreover, it is also a great two player game that we still play together. Carcassonne itself has an incredible number of reviews, but we never play it without the first two expansions, Inns and Cathedrals and Traders and Builders. In this review, I'll review why we don't play with The Princess and the Dragon in our two player games. I assume that you are already familiar with the basic Carcassonne rules.

The first two expansions to Carcassonne had elements that emphasized the construction and finishing of features. In contrast, the Princess and the Dragon is the first expansion to include elements that emphasized destruction. The Princess and the Dragon was actually the second expansion for Carcassonne that we got, after Inns and Cathedrals (to get the sixth player pieces). Probably like most newbies, this was mostly because it sounded like the coolest expansion---you get to play with dragons! And princesses! And magic portals! A little fantasy added to the mix! We cracked it out with a big group of our friends and had a lot of fun. However, after many attempts, we found that this expansion just doesn't work as a two player game.

We find the Princess and the Dragon adds more random and aggressive elements that work quite well as a multiplayer game, but not as much in a two-player game.

(However, to be absolutely transparent, at the least we have only played this expansion with Inns and Cathedrals and never by itself, which may perhaps make this review not the best to judge this expansion solely on its own merits. Nevertheless, this is probably a common situation for most Carcassonne owners, so hopefully there is still some value in this review.)

Princess and the Dragon Materials

New Tiles

This expansion ships with twenty-four new tiles made from the same thick and durable cardboard as the original. All of the art and markings match exactly with the original, which may be problematic if you ever want to separate the tiles. One of the common complaints with Carcassonne is that it has too much luck. Luckily (pun intended), as you add more tiles, the luck actually tends to decrease. With more tiles, there will be more features and more places to put your newly drawn tile, increasing the strategic possibilities.

One of the cooler new tiles is one with a cloister within a city. This is a nice change of pace, since most of the previous cloisters were surrounded only by farms and roads. The volcano tile with a single road gives you another powerful tool to join two fields separated by a road.

Magic Portal Tiles

There are six magic portal tiles included. The magic portal itself looks a little too similar to the volcano image, but has arrows coming out of it. In terms of gameplay, upon placing the magic portal tile, the player can then place a meeple on this tile or any other previously placed tile (significantly, the player can place a meeple on any uncompleted, unoccupied feature). At first glance, this seems like a good idea, since there usually tends to be several unoccupied features in play. Since you can always join and add a meeple to an unoccupied city or road, the magic portal is most powerful when used to populate an empty cloister.

However, we believe that this actually goes against one of the basic concepts in Carcassonne---meeple management. One of the tensions in the game is to use your meeples wisely. Do you try to control a feature now, or save your meeple for a better feature later? An unused cloister just means that you didn't manage your meeples very well.

The Fairy

There is a little white meeple called the Fairy (although it looks like a wizard) included. Instead of placing a meeple, the player can move the fairy onto any tile, including ones already containing a meeple. This has several advantages. The dragon cannot move into a space containing the fairy, which acts essentially as a dragon bodyguard. If you start your turn with a fairy playing bodyguard duty on your meeple, you gain one point. And if you complete a feature, you get an extra bonus three points for the fairy. The dragon bodyguard feature works okay, and it gives a player something to do when they cannot play a meeple, but in practice the fairy is extremely annoying to use. We constantly keep forgetting the score an extra point each turn, as well as on scoring the completed features regardless of the number of players.

The Princess

There are six city tiles that contain the Princess (which looks more masculine than feminine). If these tiles are placed onto a city that already contains meeples, the player can then kick out a meeple of his choice. This can often be a game-changing move as the ownership of a large city can hinge upon a difference of only one meeple. We often play highly competitively by actively trying to steal each other's cities and this provides another tactic for accomplishing that. A good addition.

The Dragon

And now for the biggest addition...the Dragon! Probably the coolest looking piece in the Carcassonne series, the dragon is a relatively large figure that towers over the surrounding meeples. There are six new volcano tiles. When played, the player cannot place a meeple and the dragon immediately flies to that tile. This makes placement quite strategic, since the dragon can potentially fly all the way across the board, away from your meeples and towards your opponents. In addition, there are twelve new tiles that contain a dragon icon. When placed, the dragon then moves! The dragon always moves six spaces if possible and cannot move onto the same space twice. However, each player takes a turn moving the dragon. If the dragon moves onto a space containing a meeple, that meeple is "eaten" and returned the player.

This is an interesting new mechanic to remove played meeples. Obviously, eating your opponent's meeple is a new offensive tool. However, the dragon can also serve to remove your own stranded meeples that would otherwise be stuck for the remainder of the game.

However, this is where this expansion fails for two players. With only two, the movement of the dragon becomes pointless---I'll move the dragon in one direction, while my girlfriend moves it into another direction. In addition, our meeple population density is relatively low (arguably, though, this is through including the tiles from other expansions). As a result, the dragon almost always fails the threaten us.

Nevertheless, this is where this expansion shines with more players. With more players, the meeple population density increases and there are more targets for the dragon to threaten. In addition, with more people, there is a lot of table talk as players try to convince others where to move the dragon. Temporary alliances can form to move the dragon purposely instead of randomly. This metagame makes this expansion much more fun, with almost a party game-like atmosphere, which is totally unlike the more strategic two player game!

Conclusion

The Princess and the Dragon expansion adds a fun fantasy theme as well as some more chaotic and aggressive elements to Carcassonne. This works quite well with a larger group of people (in which the game by its very nature is more random), but just doesn't jive with two players. For a more strategic game focusing more on finishing features, stick to the first two expansions. For a little more chaotic fun with more people, add the Dragon!

Thread: Re: "The Princess the Dragon and ... No Faeries" variant

Urtur — 2007-10-17T10:29:51+00:00

Additional rulings that apply if you use the "Abbey and Mayor" expansion:

The dragon can't destroy barns (as it can not do under in the basic rules).

The dragon cannot walk onto abbey tiles (they are protected by walls and their aura of holiness).

Wagons may escape: when the dragon walks onto a tile with a wagon, the owner of the wagon may either remove it from the board or move it to the neighboring unoccupied, unfinished structure (as if the current structure was finished).

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Suzan — 2007-10-03T12:53:33+00:00

The fairy protecting my farmer from the scary dragon

Thread: "The Princess the Dragon and ... No Faeries" variant

Urtur — 2007-09-27T13:44:50+00:00

* * * The Princess the Dragon and ... No Faeries * * *

* Rulings variant for Carcassonne - The Princess and The Dragon *

General rulings

This variant is targeted towards players who find the original rules regarding the Faerie movement too troublesome and taking too much time. It also changes the Magic Path rules. So if you think those rules are fine, this variant is not for you... The rulings below preserve the highly competitive nature of the add-on.

General game rules apply unless stated otherwise.

Rules of "The Princess and The Dragon" add-on do NOT apply unless stated otherwise.

There is no faerie. The white figurine represents the princess!

Setup

Using the starting town from "Te Count of Carcassonne" and the river from "The River II" expansion is strongly recommended but not necessary.

This variant combines very well with "The Count on the Tower" variant described in "The Tower" entry. =-> LINK <-=

Dragon placement:
If you use "The River II" place the dragon on the volcano ending the river.
Otherwise if you use the starting town place the dragon on any of its 10 outer tiles.
Otherwise place the dragon on the starting tile. The dragon is onboard from the very beginning of the game.

Princess placement:
If you use the starting town place the princess on any of its 2 inner tiles.
Otherwise the player who draws the first tile with a town fragment instead of placing his own follower puts the princess figurine in that town.

]]> Starting setup.

The Dragon

The standard expansion rules regarding the dragon apply (the dragon jumps to volcanos, moves 6 squares when a dragon tile is drawn etc.). There are only few differences:
As there is no faerie there is no moving obstacle to the dragon movement.
The dragon cannot walk onto two inner tiles of the starting town.
The princess may be chased away by the dragon (see below).

The Princess

When a princess tile is drawn the player may not put his follower on it. He takes the princess figurine and puts it on a princess symbol instead.

]]> Placing the princess.

When a town with the princess (the figurine, not the symbol!) is scored every town tile is worth only 1 point (2 if there is a cathedral in, 0 if it is the endgame scoring of an unfinished town).

If at any time the princess is in a besieged town (containing a siege tile from "The Cathars" expansion) she flees to the starting town (if it is not used she can be moved to any unowned town (finished or not), if there is none she leaves the board temporarily and returns when an unoccupied town appears).

Whenever the dragon walks onto the tile with the princess she flees to any of the 2 inner tiles of the starting town (see above if you don't use it).

Whenever the magic path tile is placed it is played as any normal tile (the active player can put a follower on it), but at the end of the current player turn the princess tries to move:
The active players checks if there are roads connecting the town the princess is in with any other town. There may be crossroads and cloisters in between - they do not count. The starting town is treated as any other town. Both finished and unfinished town are considered.
If no connection is found (a common situation) the princess may be moved by the active player to any fragment of the town she is currently in (it may be important to align or dis-align her with the dragon).
If one connection is found the active player moves the princess along the road - to the tile the road the princess travels approaches the second town.
If more connections are found the active player decides which one to use and acts as above.
Note that the princess cannot move through that second town and go to the next one. She stops as soon as she arrives to the second town. She also cannot be displaced within the same town if a connection to the other town is found.

]]> Moving the princess.

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Urtur — 2007-09-27T13:05:44+00:00

The "... No Fae" Variant. The Princess and the Count start in the city.

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Urtur — 2007-09-27T13:02:04+00:00

The "... No Fae" Variant. A princess-marked tile has been placed. The princess is now being moved to that tile.

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Urtur — 2007-09-27T12:59:44+00:00

The "... No Fae" Variant. The triangle marked tile has just been placed. The princess should be moved to any of the X marked tiles.

Thread: Making Carcassonne a whole new game with a Drageeple

stormseeker75 — 2007-08-24T20:02:47+00:00

I love expansions. I love Carcassonne. Simple math should indicate that I love Carcassonne expansions. This is not the case because I really don't care for most of them. Traders and Builders breaks the game by giving extra turns. Inns and Cathedrals ruins the delicate balance in scoring by making roads worth more. I'm completely ambivalent about the river. So why do I like The Princess and the Dragon so much?

Rules

As a Carc expansion, it maintains the basic Carc rules. Place tile, place meeple, score feature, rinse and repeat. But like all expansions in this series, P&D adds it own spices to the Carcassonne goulash (or Buillabase since we're in France).

P&D introduces the Dragon (Drageeple) and the Fairy (Feeple or Faireeple) as well as 30 new tiles. Some of the tiles have a volcano on them. When these tiles are placed, the Drageeple is place on it. No meeples can be placed on these tiles. There are also Princess tiles. When a tile with a princess is place connected to a feature with meeples on it, one of those meeples must be removed. If there were no meeples, you may place your freeley. Last, there are tiles with a Dragon picture. When these tiles are placed, players move the Dragon. Starting with the player who placed the tile, the Dragon moves one tile at a time orthoganally. This is repeated until the Dragon moves 6 times or gets stuck. The Dragon can't backtrack so if he hits a dead end, he's stuck. If the Dragon moves onto a tile with a meeple, that meeple is returned to its owner.....unless the Fairy is on that square! The Fairy can be placed on any tile as long as that player does not place a meeple that turn. The Fairy does double duty and not only protects you from the Dragon, but scores you 1 point at the start of your turn if you control her, and scores an additional 3 points if the feature she's standing on gets completed.

Gameplay

Carcassonne is Carcassonne and the general gameplay doesn't really change all that much. You still lay tiles, place meeples, score features, yada yada yada, but now you have a few more options. You can use a Princess tile to remove your opponent's meeple from a city. You can skip placing a meeple to place the Fairy, scoring you points every turn and protecting you from the Drageeple. You can move the Dragon and eat your opponent's meeples for breakfast.

All of these changes morph Carcassonne from complex strategy game to a slightly lighter "take that" form. This is in no way a bad thing, but it is drastically different from the base game and much different than any of the other expansions except maybe The Tower.

Components

The Drageeple is awesome. He's about as big as three meeples and is a nice burgundy color. The Fairy is much smaller and has a pointed head. Both are pretty neat and look really good on a Carcassonne table. The tiles are the same high quality as the base game but I personally feel like the volcanoes add a really cool touch of doom to the otherwise sunny French countryside. In fact, this whole expansion with its Drageeple, Faireeple, and Princess tiles gives the game a fantasy feel which goes a long way to making the game a bit more exciting thematically. Who really cares about building up an ancient French city? But if you tell people you're building a little fantasy world with Dragons, you're bound to get a bit more interest.

Compare it to....

Its Carcassonne with some "screw your neighbor" built in. So compare it to Carcassonne, but understand that this game is pretty different.

Overall

I'm a Carcassonne purist. For me, there is nothing better than the base game played cut-throat. But if you are looking for a fun alternative, I highly recommend adding The Princess and the Dragon to your Carcassonne collection. It adds a strong "take that" element all while retaining the fun of building a countryside. I don't believe you can play a hardcore game with this expansion, but it adds a new layer to the basic game.

I rate The Princess and the Dragon 8 out of 10. 8 is probably as high as I'd rate any expansion for any game (except 1910 for Ticket to Ride because I view it as necessary to the base game) so you can take that as strong endorsement. If you are a Carcassonne lover like my but would like to add something new and exciting to the game and don't mind the confrontational nature, I strongly advise you to pick up The Princess and the Dragon.

Thread: Re: Reign of Meeples

stormseeker75 — 2007-07-26T14:44:53+00:00

I play a lot of Carc online, and as such got really good. I was actually too good to play with my girlfriend. Added in P&D and it really leveled the playing field. Not only is she more competitive now, but she can actually win a few games now.

Thread: Re: Reign of Meeples

laxnbakpakr — 2007-07-26T13:50:40+00:00

I play carcassonne with my girlfriend and oddly enough this is her favorite expansion. We too often forget to add the point for controlling the fairy. We've found that the dragon seldom actually winds up eating any meeples. This is especially true if the dragon starts moving in the middle of a large area. It gets more tricky when the dragon is near an edge or on a string of tiles where movement is greatly restricted.

Thread: Re: Reign of Meeples

SwampIrish — 2007-07-26T10:38:14+00:00

Out of all of the Carcassonne expansions, this is the only one that I have taken back out of the game. We still use the tiles, but the Dragon and Fairy get no play.

Thread: Reign of Meeples

MerricB — 2007-07-26T02:16:05+00:00

With the addition of The Princess and the Dragon, the third "big" expansion to the Carcassonne line, we begin to move away from expanding the concepts in the original game, to a game where player conflict becomes even more important.

This set contains the following:
* 30 terrain tiles
* 1 wooden dragon
* 1 wooden fairy
* 1 rulebook

Let us look at the new features that this expansion adds:

The Princess
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Six city tiles display the image of a princess. This princess is apparently not a good, virtuous princess, instead seducing away the knights that control cities. Or sending them on quests, that sort of thing.

When a Princess tile is added to a city that already contains one or more knightly meeples, the player of the tile must return one of those knights to its owner's supply; if this is done, no new meeple may be placed on the princess tile. The tile acts as normal if added to a city with no meeples.

The effectiveness of the Princess varies depending on the situation. Without doubt, the best way to use one of these tiles is in adding to a city where both you and another player already have meeples, thus gaining control of the city. Adding the Princess to a city which has only one meeple in it is less effective. In a 2-player game, your opponent will have first chance to reclaim the city, making the Princess a more dubious tactic.

Magic Portals
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Six tiles display a magic portal. This tile is quite interesting: it allows you to place your meeple either on it or any other tile, following the normal restrictions (so, you can't just place your meeple in a city already claimed by another player). In addition, you can't place a meeple on an already-completed terrain feature.

This is my favourite addition of the expansion. It's also needed, due to the disruption the Princess and the Dragon (see below) are causing.

The Fairy
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If there's one addition that causes the most problems to the game of Carcassonne, it's the Fairy piece. This is simply because people forget about it. In theory, it's simple. If you don't place a follower on your turn, you can place the fairy on any tile on the board where you have a follower. The fairy does three things:
* She makes the tile she's on immune to the Dragon
* Whenever the tile she's on is scored, she gives 3 points to whoever has a follower on her tile.
* At the beginning of a player's turn, if he still has the fairy, he scores 1 point.

It's that last that gives the most problems. Protecting tiles from the Dragon: no problem! Scoring points at the beginning of each turn... problem. I've seen several games where everyone forgot about the fairy. Even in games on brettspielwelt.de, where the fairy is scored automatically, I've gone through games forgetting about her and then wondering why I've lost by so much!

However, I do think the fairy adds a very interesting tension to the game, as well as helping players who find a "useless" tile that they can't place another meeple on. She also helps people who overcommit their meeples.

The Dragon
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The Dragon, like the Princess, adds a new level of disruption to the game. Whilst the original game and expansions did not allow you to do anything to your opponent's meeples, this expansion changes that dramatically. The Dragon is represented by an impressively large wooden piece.

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The Dragon doesn't enter the game until one of the six Volcano tiles is placed. When that happens, the Dragon is moved from wherever it is (on the board, or still not in play) and placed on the Volcano. The person playing the Volcano tile doesn't get to play a follower, but could move the fairy.

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When one of the twelve dragon movement tiles is drawn, assuming that the dragon is in play, the dragon moves six spaces. Any meeples on tiles it lands on are returned to their owners' supplies. To determine where the dragon moves, each player in turn, starting with whoever placed the movement tile, moves the dragon one space (horizontally or vertically, not diagonally). The dragon can't return to a tile that it's already visited during this movement, nor can it enter the square with the fairy. As a result, you'll occasionally find that the dragon must stop moving before it's travelled six tiles.

The dragon can have a catastrophic effect on your meeples, and is particularly nasty on farmer meeples. Of course, it is possible to make use of the dragon to return "useless" farmer meeples to hand, but it's a risky strategy.

I've found through play that, especially in 2-player games, the dragon can be much less devastating than it originally seems. Good use of the fairy helps, as well as tile placement that finds the dragon travelling up a dead-end.

The more players, the harder the dragon is to control, of course. I believe that the dragon adds a number of tactical considerations to the play of Carcassonne for 2 or 3 player games, but is more a random force of destruction in 4-6 player games.

I rather like the Dragon myself, but I know people who really dislike what it brings to the game.

Conclusion
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Carcassonne was originally a game about placing terrain tiles, completing terrain features, and manuevering your meeples into positions where they'd score more points than your opponents. The Princess and the Dragon changes that. For the first time, you can actually cause your opponent's meeples to be removed from the board.

Is this is a good change to the game? Well, it certainly makes it different. I tend to enjoy seeing this expansion in play, and I'll happily play a game with it included. You and your friends may feel differently.

I'd urge anyone considering getting The Princess and the Dragon to be cautious about the changes it brings to the game. A good expansion? I think so, but not one for everyone.

Thread: Re: Tower and Volcano Tile...

ColtsFan76 — 2007-07-18T12:21:17+00:00

rgnet1 wrote:
One of the most popular--if not THE most popular--board game series in the world and the creators haven't got an official ruling/FAQ on this? Eesh!

The problem is that you had a 1st edition of rules in Germany. then germany went to 2nd edition. But the US stuck with 1ste edition. Then Germany went with 3rd edition. The US still stayed with 1st edition. Quite a few of us who know about the 3rd edition rules played that even though our versions came with 1st edition. At that point, Germany had a pretty well-maintained FAQ.

Then the Big Box came out, effectively making the ruleset 4th edition. Instead of getting on board, the US effectively made their own 2nd editon rules (that doesn't match the german 2nd edition). Someof the common sense and FAQ rulings wwere left muddled with the new Big Box rules. Germany hasn't had a chance to get the FAQ updated with the new ruleset in mind yet (at least that I know of). And Big Box has been out for under a year? In my opinion, not too unreasonable to not have the FAQ updated in that time period.

So that in a nutshell is why things are still muddled. They were practically crystal clear and now they are not!

(By Germany, I mean Hans im Gluk, and by US I mean Rio Grande Games)

Thread: Re: Tower and Volcano Tile...

rgnet1 — 2007-07-17T05:29:54+00:00

One of the most popular--if not THE most popular--board game series in the world and the creators haven't got an official ruling/FAQ on this? Eesh!

Thread: Re: Tower and Volcano Tile...

ColtsFan76 — 2007-07-16T11:34:23+00:00

This is one of those things that created ambiguity with the new rules. In my opinion, this is part of the "forced wood piece move." So when you place a volcano tile, you move the dragon to it and your turn is over (unless you happen to pull a volcano with a city piece and it extends your city with a builder granting you another turn). Therefore, no tower can be placed.

Thread: Tower and Volcano Tile...

rgnet1 — 2007-07-16T08:04:05+00:00

The Big Box rules say that when you draw a tile with Volcano symbol, you cannot place any figure on that tile except the Dragon. But it doesn't say anything about placing a Tower.

What's the general consensus here? Does moving the Dragon count as that player's "forced wood piece move," or does he get the option to place a Tower?

Thread: Re: Do you use this home rule?

Pops — 2007-07-11T05:55:14+00:00

I belive the inventor of the home rule found it unfair that you may place the last piece of a structure and before scoring it you get to put the fairy there as well for 3 bonus points, rather than having to have her sit there between two turns to get the 3 bonus points.

However, my take on this home rule is that you lose the advantage when the dragon moves that the player who drew the tile with the dragon symbol may protect one of his meeples (if he/she doesn't place a new meeple) before it moves. So I don't think the move of the fairy for 3 bonus points is unfair, especially since you don't get the 1 starting-point the next turn because your meeples from the finished structure is already returned.

I have yet to play this expansion with more than two players though.

Thread: Re: Terrible

woodnoggin — 2007-07-10T12:01:18+00:00

Princess & Dragon is the worst expansion. It adds too much randomness to an already luck-based game. The dragon as a screwage mechanic is too hard to defend against or even predict. The fairy is next to useless. The best parts of the expansion are the magic portal tiles which are fun and (usually) don't nastily screw over another player.
All the other expansions are better than this one. So I'd suggest trying again with Inns & Cathedrals, or Traders & Builders, both of which add some nice elements to the game, and try to forget about your experience with P&D!

Thread: Re: Terrible

Pops — 2007-07-10T10:30:21+00:00

Well, for classic carcassonne I completely agree. Every old strategy is gone.

So my take on Princess & Dragon is, terrible - no - it's a new game all together. More luck-dependant but still fun to play on occation to get some variation. However I like it best only with basic Carc and I&C. If you mix T&B into it it gets way too luck-dependant.

For strategy I prefer classic Carc with I&C which covers a lot of "holes" in the basic Carc. Throw in King & Scout and you get a lot more ways to win.

Traders and Builders is good too, but also as a variant since I agree with an earlier post that it too changes gameplay quite a bit.

What amazes me most is the brains of the developer/s that have been able to make all these expansions so that you may actually play with all of them toghether at one! It's a great game - not a cent wasted!

Carcassonne Rules!

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OldestManOnMySpace — 2007-07-07T06:01:49+00:00

Protection.

Thread: Re: Before you buy...

Mr_Smallberries — 2007-07-03T03:09:14+00:00

Totally agree with your conclusion. I've played a lot of Carcassonne and rarely do I feel the need to pull this one out, unless I'm looking for a pretty different experience with the game, one that's far more, "Take that!"

Excellent review!

Thread: Re: Before you buy...

stormseeker75 — 2007-07-02T16:43:40+00:00

I have been playing a lot of Carc online and unfortunately, my skills have far surpassed my girlfriend. I think P&D might give her the tools to overcome my skill advantage. I might have to look into this.

Good review. Thanks for the info!

Thread: Re: Before you buy...

cold_fuzion — 2007-07-02T13:53:56+00:00

Yeah, I gotta agree with you about the fairy. She got placed and then just sat there, we forgot about it most of the time.

As far as the rest of the expansion, I really enjoy the way it can change the game up and make things a little more volatile. Having said that, it's not something I'd want all the time. There are other games that are confrontational and do it much better. This is just a fun and occasional change of pace.

Thread: Re: Before you buy...

Drew1365 — 2007-07-02T02:38:20+00:00

Good review . . . although our recent experience with the Princess and the Dragon was not fun at all. The fairy was annoying; we often forgot to move her and/or score her. I could see us leaving her out in future games. I also thought the Princess tiles were kind of a bother. I did like the Magic Portals, and the dragon itself wasn't bad. But I think if we try this again, we'll try just part of this expansion.

Thread: Before you buy...

ColMustard — 2007-07-01T22:00:20+00:00

My comments here are directed to those exploring this game with the prospect of buying it. I trust this offers a helpful understanding of what this expansion contains, and a glimpse at the rules. My hope is that it will be enough to spark your imagination to see how this addition will alter your Carcassonne experience.

To begin with...
The Princess & The Dragon is not a complete game. This expansion can only be played alongside the Carcassonne game. One or both of the previous expansions (“Inns & Cathedrals” and “Traders & Builders”) can also be added. You can even add “The Tower” or any or all of the three smaller expansions (“The River”, “King and Scout” and “The Count”) to the mix for a fuller (and longer) experience.

It is straightforward...
The rules are written clearly and concisely and pose no difficulties to get you started quickly. It will probably take only one game to see how the game is ‘altered’ with this expansion.

What’s inside...
This expansion is essentially 30 new tiles, a wooden Dragon and a wooden Fairy. Here is a quick look at the tiles...and a bit about what they do:

6 Volcano Tiles – Whenever a player draws a tile with a Volcano, it is placed according to the rules of Carcassonne. However, a player may not place one of his meeples on this tile. Instead, the Dragon appears and flies from his lair to land on this newly placed tile. In this way, the Dragon changes his location throughout the game each time a Volcano tile is added.
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12 Dragon Tiles – Whenever a player draws a tile with a Dragon pictured, it is placed according to the Carcassonne rules. A player may also play any one meeple to this tile. The game is then paused, while the dreaded Dragon moves. Beginning with the player who placed the Dragon tile, the Dragon is moved to any adjacent tile (never diagonally). This continues (clockwise) around the table with each player moving the Dragon to a new tile until he has changed positions six times. Whenever the Dragon tromps his way across fields, through cities, over roads and cloisters landing on a tile that contains a Follower, that Follower is devoured (and removed from the board). After his six steps, the Dragon waits where he stands until either 1) a new Volcano tile is drawn (which whisks him away to a new location) or 2) another Dragon tile is drawn (which allows him to take six more steps).
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6 Magic Portal Tiles – When a player draws and places a Magic Portal tile, he may place one of his Followers on this tile...or any other spot on the board (keeping in mind all rules for placement). In this way, if the Dragon has removed an opponents’ Follower from an unfinished city, for example, the player placing the Magic Portal tile may automatically transport one of his Followers across the board to take possession of that vacant unfinished city.
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6 Princess Tiles – When a player draws a princess tile, it is placed according to the normal rules. If the tile is placed so that it connects to a city containing one or more meeple (Knights), the player placing the tile removes one of those Knights.
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But wait...there’s more...
Also included in this expansion is a small Fairy.
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Whenever a player takes a turn placing a tile, but does not place a Follower, he may instead place the Fairy on a tile alongside any one his Followers. The Fairy has 3 effects:
1 – The Dragon may not visit a tile where the Fairy stands, thus she protects and wards off the meeple munching Dragon.
2 – If a player starts his turn, and the Fairy currently resides on a tile with one of his Followers, that player immediately scores 1 point.
3 – When a city, road, cloister, or farm which contains the Fairy is completed, the player whose Follower stands on the tile (with the Fairy) scores a 3 point bonus.

Get ready for change...
This expansion can be a lot of fun but it definitely changes the tone of Carcassonne. It adds an increased element of uncertainty as well as conflict to the game. With two meeple removers – the Dragon and the Princess – players are less likely to complete what they are building. And while there are times when it is actually helpful to have a stranded Follower returned (from a city that can never be finished), it is equally annoying to have a Farmer turfed from a field that would have yielded huge points. I feel that the other expansions add depth and strategy, while The Princess & The Dragon adds confrontation and a “you never know what might happen” flavor. (I do not mean to imply this is bad...I am just trying to make clear the difference.)

A few comments...
I have played this with some who feel that this expansion adds more of a random sense of game play. While others feel that this expansion offers them more of a chance to win...by allowing them to ruin the plans of others. Either way, this does clearly change the game dynamic.

What I enjoy most about this expansion are the Magic Portal tiles. It is a fun concept that adds an entirely new dimension to Carcassonne. (Sometimes I wish there were more than six!) These tiles encourage strategic maneuvering and open up possibilities that did not exist before. As well, this expansion keeps the board far less stagnate as meeples are eaten or pass through a portal to take up residence...on that long road the Dragon just cleared (for example).

One (minor) negative comment would be in regard to the one point bonus for possession of the Fairy. It is very difficult to remember and keep track of.

Final thoughts...
While I do enjoy The Princess & The Dragon, it is not actually a favourite. When we play Carcassonne we always include The River, Inns & Cathedrals, and Traders & Builders. But only sometimes do we include The Princess & The Dragon. But when we want a fresh change and an entirely new feel to the game, this is how we do it! It mixes things up a bit and keeps Carcassonne from becoming routine. If you are looking for something that will completely alter your Carcassonne experience, this will do it.

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ColMustard — 2007-07-01T21:32:47+00:00

This tile has a Princess symbol.

Thread: Re: Terrible

rhox — 2007-06-16T12:04:14+00:00

I play with all the expansions together with two Carc base sets so the dragon has a much bigger playing field, not the best expansion to start with P+D. I would back up other recommendations of traders and builders and inns and cathedrals first then add the dragon later, we have great fun as he adds a little suspense to the game. You certainly haven’t wasted your money.

Thread: Re: Terrible

scotty321 — 2007-06-16T10:37:28+00:00

baba44713 wrote:
Whoever suggested you do such a thing? Are you sure someone told you to do that or you just wanted to try out the coolest-appearing expansion first?

Haha -- yes, that's exactly what we did. We wanted to try out the coolest-looking expansion first!

Thanks to you & everybody else for your great advice & replies -- I think we're going to scrap Princess & Dragon for now, and start off with Inns & Cathedrals instead. We'll see how that goes instead!

Thanks,
Scott

Thread: Re: Terrible

baba44713 — 2007-06-16T10:19:04+00:00

Well if you only combined the Vanilla Carc with P&D I can see why you had a terrible time. Low tile count would mean an extremely high dragon presence which would destroy the game completely.

Whoever suggested you do such a thing? Are you sure someone told you to do that or you just wanted to try out the coolest-appearing expansion first?

Here's what you should do:
Scrap P&D and pull out just Vanilla and Inns&Cath. Play with just that for awhile. After you feel you need something more, add Traders and play with that. You don't need to pull out ANY of the other expansions for at least a year in my opinion.

Only after you're quite sick of the Vanilla+I&C+T&B you should try the more "exotic" expansions as the Count, Princess or Tower.

Give Carc another go. But let Dragon sleep in the box, and give the "lame-o" expansions a try. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

Thread: Re: Terrible

Ophidian — 2007-06-16T03:34:09+00:00

Drew1365 wrote:
After reading that people preferred Princess & Dragon over other Carcassonne expansion packs, we are depressed that we bought the Big Box because we don't want to play any of them now.

That's odd. I don't know anyone who prefers P&D over other expansions.

P&D IS my favorite expansion.
But I actually think it enhances strategy as you try to maneuver control of the dragon and fairy, and try to guard against princesses or set up the best attacks with them.
It is a rather random set compared to the original game, but it adds a lot going on without adding a lot of rules or bookkeeping.