Game: Eurorails

Thread: Use of blank cards and extra locomotive cards

dimitroff — 2008-08-31T02:23:32+00:00

1) USE OF BLANK CARDS: My copy of Eurorails came with four blank cards. I created the following cards to be added to the regular deck. These cards helped to encourage more building in Scandinavia and northeastern Europe, which seemed to be lacking in the 2-player fast variant (see my post on that variant). These cards can be used with the regular rules.

Demand Card Extra 1:
Kaliningrad-Labor-25M
Göteborg-Cars-23M
Nantes-Potatoes-23M

Demand Card Extra 2:
Stockholm-Oranges-65M
Arhus-Tobacco-45M
Praha-Wheat-20M

Demand Card Extra 3:
Oslo-Cork-70M
Krakow-Marble-26M
Kobenhavn-Beer-16M

*Event Card Extra 4:
Earthquake in Madrid!
All trains within 3 spaces of Madrid lose 1 turn and 1 load
All tracks connected to Madrid are destroyed
Movement in Spain is at half-rate

2) USE OF EXTRA LOCOMOTIVE CARDS: The locomotive cards had the same back as the demand cards in my version of Eurorails. Since I usually play the 2-player fast variant (see my post on that variant), I place one each of the four types of locomotive cards in the deck. They have the following interpretations:

freight (#9, 2 circles)-->Bonus pay immediately collect 9M
fast freight (#12, 2 circles)-->Bonus pay immediately collect 12M
heavy freight (#9, 3 circles)-->Express delivery move extra 9 spaces
super freight (#12, 3 circles)-->Express delivery move extra 12 spaces

================================================================

*I created this card before the occurrence of the terrorist attacks in Madrid. I was deepened saddened by that horrific event. My deepest sympathy goes out to those who lost a loved one or to those who suffered from that despicable act.

Thread: Re: 90-minute version for two-players

dimitroff — 2008-08-30T03:55:12+00:00

I have owned the game since it first came out in 1990 (now wearing out my second copy).

Once a month, one night, two games that night = 24 game per year
24 games per year x 18 years = 432 games

Also, there was a short period of time where I had the opportunity to play the game a few times a week.

I was involved in an AI research project on planning and decision making. I actually had to write a computer program that played a simplified version of Eurorails!

I am sure that I have played Eurorails more than 500 times (no exaggeration).

Thread: Re: 90-minute version for two-players

GaryP — 2008-08-26T16:46:31+00:00

dimitroff wrote:
-I have played Eurorails this way literally hundreds of times!

If true, that means about TWO WEEKS or more of your life has been spent on Eurorails.

(And how much have I spent browsing the Geek, Mr. Pot?)

Thread: Re: 90-minute version for two-players

unixrevolution — 2008-08-25T16:28:51+00:00

TheCat wrote:
dimitroff wrote:
-Initial building is done first to last then last to first, so given two players A and B then the build turns would be: A B, B A, A B, B A

Do you break out in song at this point? I can just hear it now "Mamma mia, here I go again..."

Come on, take a chance on it! Be a Super Trooper and try it. If you get in trouble, you can SOS and Knowing Me, Knowing you, someone will help.

Thread: Re: 90-minute version for two-players

TheCat — 2008-08-24T13:43:14+00:00

dimitroff wrote:
-Initial building is done first to last then last to first, so given two players A and B then the build turns would be: A B, B A, A B, B A

Do you break out in song at this point? I can just hear it now "Mamma mia, here I go again..."

Thread: Re: 90-minute version for two-players

Eric Brosius — 2008-08-23T14:30:13+00:00

My wife and I play this game in 90 minutes with the regular rules, except that we draw cards at the end of the turn and we start by dealing 4 and discarding one. The best way to speed the game up is to be ready to play at the start of your turn.

This isn't to say your suggestions aren't worth trying.

Thread: 90-minute version for two-players

dimitroff — 2008-08-23T13:14:40+00:00

-Each player gets 80 million initial funds.

-Initial building is spread over four turns, 20 million each.

-Initial building is done first to last then last to first, so given two players A and B then the build turns would be: A B, B A, A B, B A

-During the game, each player can move a train 20 spaces and spend up to 20 million on track building per turn and each train can immediately carry three loads. There is no upgrading of trains in this version.

-Treat all ferries as space moves, so to move across a 4-ferry, the player must use 4 spaces of the allotted 20 spaces. Likewise, a 16-ferry would use up 16 spaces of the 20 spaces.

-Motivation for the above is that it takes time (space movement) to unload a train, load the boat, and reload the train at the other end.

-Cost for using each ferry each time is $1 million per use. This cost is the same whether it a 4-ferry, 6-ferry, or 16-ferry. Cost of using a ferry is independent of building costs. So a player could spend $20 million to build track, and in the same turn could pay an additional $1 million fee for each ferry crossed.

-Players must have enough remaining spaces to move across the ferry, otherwise they must stop and wait until their next turn. Example, a player lands reaches a 4-ferry but has used 17 of 20 movement spaces. Since the player has only 3 spaces remaining, the player cannot cross the 4-ferry. The player must stop and wait until next turn.

-Ferry payments may be delayed till end of players turn. So a player may use a ferry, make a delivery, and then pay for the cost of the ferry.

-Include the Circus option, as listed in rule options with the game.

-Win: First to $300 million. If player A reach the goal first, then player B still gets one last turn. If both players attain the $300 million goal, then the player with the highest amount wins. Both players must have three cards in play at end (not disasters), so players must pick cards even if goal is reached.

-Taxes card: players may want to agree to higher tax rates for the $250-$299 range and for the $300+ range. It is possible to pick the tax card just after reaching the goal!
Money: 200-249M --> tax 25M
Money: 250-299M --> tax 30M
Money: 300+ --> tax 35M

-Two experienced players can play Eurorails in 75 to 90 minutes.

-I have played Eurorails this way literally hundreds of times! The regular rules tend to be long and tedious. This variant is fast, fun, and well-balanced. Most games end with both players near the $300 million goal. Many games come down to the very last play!

Thread: Re: Rules for 1st Edition

tomvilfroy — 2008-08-21T00:04:07+00:00

eisenphx wrote:
Does anybody have a scan of the rules for the 1st Edition? I found a used copy that is missing the rules.
Thanks!

The only thing different between the 2 editions is the english channel ferries costs were changed. That is the only change I'm aware of.

Thomas

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

Rindis — 2008-07-24T16:02:46+00:00

[Does a quick search.]

You would be correct, sir!

I don't think I ran into it until '84-'86 though.

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

dklx3 — 2008-07-24T14:46:48+00:00

I believe Empire Builder, the first in the series, came out in 1980 or thereabouts.

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

BFoy — 2008-07-19T05:32:31+00:00

ced1106 wrote:
All in all, not a bad game though.

Yep. The game's 18-some years old now, far older than the Eurogame movement.

Sorry but I've been playing Euros (though we called them German games back then) for nearly 18 years. Others have been playing them longer. The SdJ has been around for over 20 years.

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

ced1106 — 2008-07-19T04:33:13+00:00

All in all, not a bad game though.

Yep. The game's 18-some years old now, far older than the Eurogame movement. Hence, it has some very non-Euro features: long game play, low player interaction, yadda yadda. I still enjoy it, since I love money.

aka. Washu! ^O^

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

Rindis — 2008-07-18T20:00:42+00:00

I prefer Aussie Rails. Nippon Rails was too congested for me.

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

BFoy — 2008-07-18T16:12:52+00:00

Yes, Nippon Rails is a very good variant. Australian Rails also has fierce competition for some of the Eastern towns.

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

Rindis — 2008-07-18T16:03:53+00:00

The real 'direct' competition enters where the terrain is dense. There's only a few good ways over most rough terrain, and if a couple people get there ahead of you, picking out a route that isn't too expensive gets really hard, often leaving you with having to go around, if you can. Most crayon rail games start feeling this around four players, and the problems become chronic at 5 or 6 players. Of course, where the terrain is really congested (Nippon Rails) the competition gets fierce with only two.

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

Yuglooc — 2008-07-18T14:58:18+00:00

It's true in every game of the Empire Builder series (on which Eurprails is based) that the "screw your opponent" potential is small (thus the "multiplayer solitaire" comment). Preventing an opponent from connecting to a city he/she needs is merely a nuisance; he/she can pay 4 monetary units (dollars, euros, yen, etc.) to ride sonmeone's rails for a turn.

Another way to slow down an opponent is to (temporarily) deplete a load type needed. However, you need to be able to deliver at least one of them; otherwise you hurt yourself significantly.

Yeah, I agree that many of the adverse events do affect the person triggering them (by drawing the card) more than the others. That's just part of the "luck of the draw" (just as getting the right load card at the right time is).

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

BFoy — 2008-07-18T14:50:20+00:00

Losing 2 turns is very minor. I've seen people lose far more than 2 turns and still win. The events add a random element to what would ordinarily be a very dry game. The events add complexity to the planning. Should I spend extra to avoid a river? Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't and sometimes I can't. Should I spend $20 so I can upgrade my train to carry an extra load? These decisions move the game away from being 'multiplayer solitare'. You compete with other players for the best routes. And the leader 'sets the bar'. If I see another player carrying 2 commodites in each direction, can I afford to do less. I might be forced to dump cards, I'd ordinarily try to deliver.

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

DarrellKH — 2008-07-18T14:50:19+00:00

mikoyan wrote:
My problem isn't with having the money to rebuild the bridge, my problem is in the case where you are going to the city that is after the bridge that flooded out. If it is this turn, you lose the rest of this turn because it is our understanding that events are instananeous. Then you lose the next turn because the event doesn't go away until the END of your turn, so you can't rebuild the bridge. Then you lose movement of the next turn because you have to rebuild that bridge.

Unfortunate, yes, but that is correct, as the rules are written. However, the event knows no loyalties, and has an equal chance of happening that way to any of the players.

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

mikoyan — 2008-07-18T13:06:18+00:00

DarrellKH wrote:
As one of the objectives of the game is connecting to the majority of the major cities, being able to block players out of those cities is little more than an attempt to find a shortcut to success, at the cost of the other player's chances - rather than the more strategic, more involved objective of building an efficient, money-making rail network.

Since games about railroad-building are not meant to simulate conflict, but instead competition, what you seek is neither an option consistent with the theme, nor with the intended style of gameplay.

The way to deal with track outages (such as river floods) is to keep enough money on hand to rebuild your critical bridges, when you know such a card (or cards) are still in the deck. That's part of that whole "planning" thing.
My problem isn't with having the money to rebuild the bridge, my problem is in the case where you are going to the city that is after the bridge that flooded out. If it is this turn, you lose the rest of this turn because it is our understanding that events are instananeous. Then you lose the next turn because the event doesn't go away until the END of your turn, so you can't rebuild the bridge. Then you lose movement of the next turn because you have to rebuild that bridge.

Thread: Re: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

DarrellKH — 2008-07-18T12:08:09+00:00

As one of the objectives of the game is connecting to the majority of the major cities, being able to block players out of those cities is little more than an attempt to find a shortcut to success, at the cost of the other player's chances - rather than the more strategic, more involved objective of building an efficient, money-making rail network.

Since games about railroad-building are not meant to simulate conflict, but instead competition, what you seek is neither an option consistent with the theme, nor with the intended style of gameplay.

The way to deal with track outages (such as river floods) is to keep enough money on hand to rebuild your critical bridges, when you know such a card (or cards) are still in the deck. That's part of that whole "planning" thing.

Thread: Riding that Train...Casey Jones..You Better...Watch Your Speed...

mikoyan — 2008-07-18T05:20:15+00:00

I played Iron Dragon at a friend's house a long time ago. It was a pretty fun game and opened my eyes to another type of game - the train game. Here is a game where you lay down your tracks with crayons (or dry erase for the more sophisticated types) and it actually feels like running a train.

At any rate, I found a copy of Eurorails at a hobby shop and I picked it up so that I had a copy of my own. While it is different than Iron Dragon, I'm not entirely disappointed. I think the map is a little shorter, so you don't really need the foremen.

At any rate, the game starts with everyone getting 60 Euros with which they can lay down their initial rail. They also get three cards so that they have their initial loads. You can built 20 Euros worth of track at a time with different build costs for the terrain you are connecting to. Clear costs 1. MOuntains cost 2. Artic Mileposts cost 5. Building into a minor city costs 3, building into a major city costs 5 but you can build out of a major city twice per turn, so you usually you build out to complete that link. Building over a river costs 2 extra and building over an inlet costs 3 extra. You pay the cost stated on the ferry. So you get two turns to build and then you can play your train on any city. You can also upgrade a train for 20.

A turn consists of moving a train, picking up or dropping off loads. If you deliver a load to a city, you get the money for that load and then replace that card. Movement for the ferry is a little wonky. You go to the ferry milepost and move your train to the halfway point. In the next turn, you move half rate. If the card you draw is an event, you play out the event and then get a new card. If you want to move on another player's track, it costs 4. After you move your train, you can then build or upgrade using the rules above.

The winning player is the first to get 250 Euros and connect 7 of the 8 cities.

As I said in the opening paragraph, I do like this game quite a bit but my biggest problem is that the game amounts to multiplayer solitaire. You can block out minor cities, but you can't block out main cities, so there isn't a way to directly impact other players. The game pretty much consists of building your rails and getting to the 250. Another thing that bugs me is that the flood event can have a more negative effect on the person drawing it if the bridge is between you and your next load. The event cards don't go away until the next turn, so you effectively lose two turns from the event.

All in all, not a bad game though.

Thread: Re: Clarification on Ferries

Jittle — 2008-05-18T19:14:34+00:00

Thanks all.

Thread: Re: Clarification on Ferries

mark_biggar — 2008-05-18T02:15:49+00:00

Jittle wrote:
I have a question about the ferries: is A) a ferry claimed by one person (who colors the route) after paying the cost, B) claimed by up to two people when crossing the English Channel (both paying the cost), or C) claimed by no one, and the cost is paid each time it is used?

B, but that's the rule for all ferries not just those in the Channel. You can't build to a ferry without paying for it. Note, for the Irish ferries you only pay the ferry cost, you get the towns for free.

Thread: Re: Clarification on Ferries

The Wake — 2008-05-18T02:13:03+00:00

The closest answer is B. All ferry have a two player limit/allowance.

Per my older copy of the rulebook (1990):

"Only 2 players may build to (and from) a single ferry line. The player pays the cost of the entire ferry on building to one ferry port milepost; there is no additional cost to build to the ferry port milepost of the other end of the ferry. Every player has the right to build to at least one English Channel ferry line. ..." Contines with blocking exclusions and Dublin and Belfast lines.

So one player builds to a one end of the ferry and pays the total cost. This player can then build to the opposite end milepost for 0 + river/lake/inlet. A second player is then allowed to build to the same ferry line for the full cost as well. This closes the ferry line to the rest of the players.

Thread: Clarification on Ferries

Jittle — 2008-05-18T01:28:14+00:00

I have a question about the ferries: is A) a ferry claimed by one person (who colors the route) after paying the cost, B) claimed by up to two people when crossing the English Channel (both paying the cost), or C) claimed by no one, and the cost is paid each time it is used?

Thanks,

Joe

Thread: Re: This Classic Has Staying Power

TheCat — 2008-05-11T03:37:20+00:00

We've recently been playing a new variant on ferries. If you arrive with more than half your movement points left, you lose half immediately and continue moving on the other side of the ferry on the same turn.

Thread: Re: This Classic Has Staying Power

MABBY — 2008-05-05T21:04:47+00:00

The comment about England/ Cardiff (Hops and Coal)is a valid one. Those loads always pay well and the only place to get hops is Cardiff.

There is, of course, a way to avoid ferries and still go to Scandinavia.

Build up past Arhus, then cross the inlets ($4 million each + whatever you build to) into Copenhagen, then across one more to Sweden/ Norway.
More expensive than ferries, initially, but full steam ahead once it's built.

I've built from Stockholm to Lisbon, Naples to Aberdeen, and won lots of games before.

For kicks, I sometimes like to build to the ferry from Denmark over to England ($16 million)and go up to Aberdeen or Glasgow. I've made it pay off, many times.

The worst thing to try is the Irish cities. I've taken cork to Cork (it pays over $60 million), but only on the last turn, to win the game. The ferries to get there (or even just to Dublin) are frustrating as heck.

Thread: Re: How big is the map?

Fardog — 2008-04-27T04:27:12+00:00

Many thanks!

Thread: Re: How big is the map?

jearles — 2008-04-27T03:10:44+00:00

Fardog wrote:
Can anyone tell me how big the map for EuroRails is?

I am interested in plexiglass for it but don't own it yet.

Thanks

My copy, which is dated 2002 and has a 6-piece puzzle map, is:

26 1/2 inches wide (left-right)
22 inches high (top-bottom)

Thread: How big is the map?

Fardog — 2008-04-27T02:44:44+00:00

Can anyone tell me how big the map for EuroRails is?

I am interested in plexiglass for it but don't own it yet.

Thanks

Thread: Re: Getting to appreciate this game

strider2k — 2008-02-21T00:51:19+00:00

What my game group does is take a digital camera and photo copy the entire map. Then, write the money, loads, train type, and load cards on a spreadsheet. This way, the long game of Eurorails can be played in multiple sessions should the game not finish.

Thread: Re: Isn't this better played with dry erasable markers?

TheCat — 2008-01-21T05:26:33+00:00

They are grease pencils. They are called China Markers because auctioneers and antique stores use them to mark the prices on china dishes.

Thread: Re: Isn't this better played with dry erasable markers?

strider2k — 2008-01-18T17:27:53+00:00

Are the china markers erasable or do we need some sort of layer (like plexiglass for example) over the game board?

Edit: Never mind. China markers are actually pencils! The name of the product is misleading.

Thread: Re: Isn't this better played with dry erasable markers?

Firepigeon — 2008-01-10T08:26:41+00:00

Thank you all. A really heap of helpful stuff here. I must go down to my local craft store to check on some of this itens.

Thread: Re: Isn't this better played with dry erasable markers?

TheCat — 2008-01-10T01:06:57+00:00

China markers are highly recommended. Many art supply stores sell them. Here's an online dealer:

http://www.rexart.com/china_markers.html

I don't recommend white or yellow.

Thread: Re: Isn't this better played with dry erasable markers?

dagibbs — 2008-01-08T17:31:04+00:00

I don't like dry-erase, they wipe/brush off too easily. We generally put something (glass/plexiglass/etc) sheet over the board and use wet-erase markers.

Thread: Re: Isn't this better played with dry erasable markers?

Yuglooc — 2008-01-08T15:37:10+00:00

You can order maps from Mayfair Games for most (if not all) the Empire Builder series that work well with water-based transparency markers (e.g. Vis-a-Vis). Check their Web site for details.

If you don't want to pay the shipping cost from the USA Midwest to Europe, use of china markers or a plastic wrap with water-based transparency markers works as well. If you do use alternative markers on the board, make sure you test each color in a corner of the map to ensure that you can completely remove the marks before using them in a game.

I wouldn't recommend the dry erase markers used on porcelain boards - they're designed solely for that purpose, and may leave a permanent mark on other surfaces.

Thread: Re: Isn't this better played with dry erasable markers?

Mike Mayer — 2008-01-08T15:17:32+00:00

I use vis-a-vis markers on a plastic overlay. Bright colors, easy to wipe.

Thread: Re: Isn't this better played with dry erasable markers?

snicholson — 2008-01-08T12:21:38+00:00

Try China Markers. You can get them in different colors from an art supply store, and they come off very easily.

I've not tried it with dry-erase markers.

Thread: Isn't this better played with dry erasable markers?

Firepigeon — 2008-01-08T11:43:44+00:00

The subject gives it all!! I've tried the crayons that come with the game and they are really hard to get out. I was thinking instead to use dry erasable markers. Anyone had tried this? Any thoughs?

Thanks

Image

Firepigeon — 2008-01-06T23:47:04+00:00

Event Cards & Map Symbols Player Aid

Image

Firepigeon — 2008-01-06T23:31:13+00:00

Loads Available & Simbols / cities and Loads - Player Aid

Image

Firepigeon — 2008-01-06T16:22:09+00:00

Stickers sheet

Image

tacitvs — 2007-10-29T06:08:15+00:00

Map pieces - angle.

Image

tacitvs — 2007-10-29T06:01:28+00:00

Tray contents.

Thread: Re: Getting to appreciate this game

bullfrog1953 — 2007-10-09T07:08:03+00:00

Curious as to how many different decks there were for this. My deck has a Ham to Kopenhavn(Copenhagen) but no Ham to Stockholm. Have the original 1990 folding map version.

Thread: Re: Getting to appreciate this game

Tall_Walt — 2007-10-08T20:03:13+00:00

bullfrog1953 wrote:
A couple of suggestions on play strategy...
Nice catch: I missed that. Usually you want to go for speed first, unless you have three paying loads. While you want to keep a reserve for river washouts (and building track if you are not carrying a high-paying load or your network is small so far), if you're playing with the tax card, you should make all the investments you know you'll need as soon as you can: get a super train so you can carry a safety/speculation load; connect the major cities you know you'll be connecting.

Thread: Re: Getting to appreciate this game

bullfrog1953 — 2007-10-08T09:20:27+00:00

A couple of suggestions on play strategy based on your game descrition. First upgrade your train as early as you safely can; you stated your son was the only one who had the top train with both other players sitting on a decent rail net and 100+ in cash. Second when in Spain don't be afraid to toss all your cards. Count the turns it took you to deliver your three little cards and remember in Seville(where you had to be to get the 66 for Ham) there are both Cork and Oranges. You'll find the huge advantage of being able to carry three products either to Spain or from Spain is that you can carry an additional say Tourist to Spain so if you wind up tossing in Spain there are 4 cards that give you an immediate hit in Spain. When back in central Europe an extra Orange or Cork has even more liklihood to payoff.

Thread: Rules for 1st Edition

eisenphx — 2007-10-07T02:19:39+00:00

Does anybody have a scan of the rules for the 1st Edition? I found a used copy that is missing the rules.
Thanks!

Thread: Re: Getting to appreciate this game

Tall_Walt — 2007-10-05T01:06:17+00:00

Very good review. You'll find that playing the fast rules doesn't change the tone of the game at all, but your 220 minute play time should drop dramatically. The start rule of drawing five cards and choosing three provides a more even start and a faster start. Playing with the fast rules, these games take only 1/2 hour per experienced player (1 hr per novice, Iron Dragon a little longer--based on many, many games). The only thing I don't like about the fast rules is a little thing: taxes go away.

Thread: Getting to appreciate this game

rantinronrevue — 2007-10-04T11:36:02+00:00

I really have a mixed bag of feelings about the crayon rail games, Eurorails being the version that we’ve been playing (though I’ve also played Australian Rails which is pretty much a different version with the same rule set). I was able to look past the unspectacular components, and learned to live with the fiddly nature of the system. I moderately enjoyed the game, but it seemed like we would never get a chance to finish a game.

But on a recent game night, that all changed. As luck would have it through a series of coincidences, my buddy arrived early and had this game in his car, on a night when there was only him, my son, and me to play. The game was set up and ready to go by 7:05. We would play by the normal rules with two exceptions: We’d begin with three building turns instead of two, and when multiple event cards would be drawn back-to-back, only the first one would take effect, ignoring the others. We’d use the standard 9/12 movement.

The game got off to a flying start for me. On my first turn, not only did I get two ham tokens at Warsaw, but I had enough left over from my initial builds to upgrade to a fast locomotive. Delivering the ham to Stockholm and Holland seemed to fly by, a short hop to Rohr to pick up steel that I could deliver to Milano, picking up Wine in Frankfurt. My trek would then veer from Milano to Torino to pick up cars, then north again to deliver the wine and cars. This was working out well.

My son was doing pretty well and upgraded to a fast locomotive, until poor planning threatened to wipe him out. We used the optional rule of letting him take a loan from the ‘bank’ (he only needed $1000, and would pay back $2000 from his next delivery). He bounced back quite nicely from that and continued to do well, and was soon the first (and only) player to upgrade to the Supertrain!

My buddy plodded along strategically, keeping the basic train for quite a while. It wasn’t until he expanded toward Spain that he upgraded. This helped him out immensely, and he secured three high-payoff routes over $40 million very quickly, including one for over $50 million.

Other than the route to Stockholm, I kept my building confined pretty much to the mainland. By mid-game, I had connected to all the major cities except Wein and London. I finally built a route from Paris to London (more out of needing to connect a 7th major city than to actually make a delivery). My buddy had seven cities already, and my son was lingering with five. We began our final push.

My son had the most cash, but was spending it like a drunken sailor to build track. He also did a couple of very long routes for handsome payouts. My buddy was building more conservatively, but was continuing to do some decent deliveries, slowed mostly by having to wait at ferry points. I had a giant $66 million payout for delivering pork to Seville (from Warsaw again), coupled with a smaller Bern-to-Marseille delivery simultaneously. But at that point, the cards began to dry up for me. My next three deliveries were for $8-, $12-, and $17-million. BADLY TIMED!!! We were all racing toward the prize money now, and whoever got the most lucrative payoffs would win. But who???

Finally, one of us stated that had the victory conditions. We tallied, and the results were:

My son: 7 cities, $266 million.
My Buddy: 8 cities, $150+ million.
Me: 7 cities: $133 million

Being the first time we actually finished the game, it was quite exhilarating to reach the end. The time was 3 hours and 40 minutes. We all agreed that the next time we played we would use the movement allowance of 12/16 for the ‘fast game’ rules. But this session really warmed me up to this game a lot. Unfortunately, we don’t often have 4 hours to spare. But we’ll try different things to speed this up, because the game IS worth the time and effort. Our goal is to get a four player game to take about 3 hours.

Thread: Re: It's faster if you take a plane!

rantinronrevue — 2007-09-25T18:35:55+00:00

Oh, I think that the system is quite unique, and certainly very involving. Part of my problem with the game length is the fact that we usually set aside from 7:30-11:00 p.m on a weeknight. Things being what they are, oftentimes the 7:30 becomes 7:45 or even later. That puts us on a tight schedule. I think that if I can get our group to agree to the 12/16 movements (instead of the 9/12) for a few games while we learn the map, it would really facilitate us getting done in a timely fashion. When we hit 10:00, I get really frustrated because I see that we're not even close to being on schedule.

I included the comments about the components because some people who read these reviews are really turned off by components that are not large, beautiful, and thematic. I'm a bit of a sucker for that myself, but for me solid gameplay is the real bottom line. (Actually, my buddy (who owns this game) bought a set of the pewter trains for himself. I'm thinking of doing the same. They're pretty cool).

The filddly-ness (is that a word?) is one of my biggest gripes. Watching people trying to erase one link of track and ending up erasing an entire area by mistake is bad enough, but having a 5- or 10- minute discussion about what was or was not erased is just plain aggrivating. (This occurred on a game of Australian Rails at a gane store, not in my weekly group).

Just reading your reply has whet my appetite to give this game another go-round pretty soon. Thanks for your input.

Thread: Re: It's faster if you take a plane!

ixnay66 — 2007-09-22T03:26:41+00:00

I just bought this and I'm going to play it for the first time tomorrow. I'm also looking into the 1825 games as a good intro to 18XX games.

Thread: Re: It's faster if you take a plane!

Eric Brosius — 2007-09-21T22:27:23+00:00

rantinronrevue wrote:
I probably wouldn’t mind it so much if this was a 60- or 90-minute game. But it becomes nerve-wracking just about when the game hits the second hour and there’s no end in sight.

My wife and I can play 2-player Eurorails in 90 minutes or less. This is a game that gets much faster once you are familiar with it. I'd estimate that a game takes about 75 turns for each player, and many of those turns are just moving your train: "1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12 done!" If you can take your fast turns in 10 seconds, you have time left over for the trickier turns. Of course, it takes some practice to get familiar, and this is an investment.

One variant we use to speed the game up: draw new demand cards only after your movement and building is complete. This allows you to analyze your new cards during someone else's turn.

Thread: Re: It's faster if you take a plane!

hotc — 2007-09-21T21:36:43+00:00

Crayon rail games in this series are 25 years old this year. When Empire Builder appeared for the first time at Origins in 1982, it was an innovative leap – it represented a real advance on its predecessor-in-spirit, Railway Rivals (Dampfross).

The problem is that the community has moved away from it. Eurogamers find crayon rail games especially hard to take – they complain about the things with which you have problems: components, game length, "fiddly"-ness. The reason is that it's not a Eurogame. Never was. Never will be, in fact. Two to three hours is one to two hours too many for a lot of latecomers to boardgaming; they won't tolerate it, their eyes glaze over at the 60-minute mark. As for components, little plastic pawns are just fine; what would you like instead? The original-original Empire Builder had colored metal engines. They fell over easily and were too big for the dot grid. There could be plastic injection-modeled goods tokens, but Mayfair doesn't have Glenn Drover's deep pockets (it turns out that Glenn Drover didn't exactly have them either) and frankly I don't think it would add that much to game play.

There are people who complain about the length of Power Grid. It's hard to even imagine any of them sitting six or seven hours to play AH's Advanced Civilization, which we used to do a couple of times a month "back in the day", by which I mean the early 1980s. Nowadays there isn't anywhere near enough time to do that, so it's a complaint without too much relevance. But it points up a problem with games in 2007: everyone wants to put every square peg they find into a single round hole.

My advice is – if you like rail games, if you like the strategy aspect of the crayon rail system (which was, as I say, extremely innovative in 1982), if you're willing to devote 2-3 hours to play it and its near cousins, you will find the series extremely rewarding. We own all of them except the new China Rails; my wife and I pull them out frequently and have enjoyed them for many years ('82 is the year we married :-)). The components are what they are. The game length will decline . . . a bit . . . over time, with experience. But the game play gets more rewarding if you take to the game system.

As you point out, TtR doesn't give the real RR experience. It never will; and there will always be a chasm between it and the crayon games (like Eurorails) or the tile-layers (like 18xx). But there's room for all of them on our game shelves.

Walter.

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MrUnicorn — 2007-03-19T04:54:53+00:00

Card back

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Kevin C — 2006-11-17T13:01:12+00:00

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chaosbreaker — 2006-03-26T00:25:57+00:00

Playing Rails, a pc version of Eurorails on European map. http://bretm.home.comcast.net/rails.html

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tranzducer — 2006-02-02T14:45:29+00:00

The load chips. 1024x768 for desktop wallpaper use.

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tranzducer — 2006-02-02T14:39:52+00:00

The Cash. In MILLIONS.