Game: Roma

Thread: Re: First impressions - I really like it, but feel there could be some fix.

galeninjapan — 2008-12-01T19:19:34+00:00

Yeah placing the forum in low number was something I noticed. You can use the preatorius to block one forum. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of the forum having a lower defense value.

Do you play with the mercator fix?

Thread: Re: First impressions - I really like it, but feel there could be some fix.

EndersGame — 2008-12-01T18:27:12+00:00

galeninjapan wrote:
However, each game was won using the "forum strategy." I put strategy in quotes because it doesn't really seem like a strategy, rather it seems like the logical way to play game. So much that I almost think that each player should begin the game with a forum. The other cards seem to do fun things, but these don't really seem to get you any closer to winning ... The forum is most definitely the ultimate card and most games become a race to grab forums.
The Forum strategy can be powerful, and certainly the Forum cards are probably key cards for gaining victory points. And as others have said, there are other cards you can use to get points too. In my experience, there are two main paths to victory:
1. getting the most Victory Points (with Forums and similar cards)
2. forcing your opponent to lose all his Victory Points (by attacking his characters and buildings)

For a session report with two games that serve as an example of each, see here:
The Masked Man and his Gladiator get beaten up by Roman politicians
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/359556

You'll see that in the second game, cards like the Velites and Onager were used to remove the opponent's cards. You can use the Praetorianus to stop your opponent activating his Forum. In the game pictured here and described in the session report, the opponent was going to lose his four final Victory Points at the beginning of his next turn, because four of his cards had been removed at this point!

]]>

When aggressively attacking buildings and characters, it is important not to worry about your own Victory Points - just let your own supply dwindle and don't bother trying to gain points for yourself, but use all your resources to take out your opponent and win quickly. Often your opponent will hardly get a chance to win Victory Points back with Forums, because he'll be too busy spending all his actions getting money and cards to rebuild!

In my experience, the amount of games that are won by the above two strategies is fairly equal, and sometimes you'll have to switch strategies mid-way. Don't give up, but keep trying! Once you figure out the possibilities for different winning strategies, you'll really start to enjoy the game!

My last complaint it the placement of characters and buildings. there doesn't seem to be any strategy in where to place them other than avoiding your opponents legions and vice versa.
There definitely is very important strategy with placement, and there are certainly are more considerations to think about than just protection against attack! You want to optimize the results of your dice rolling, so it is important to place cards like the Forum in the 1 or 2 slot. That way if you roll a 1 and a 6, you'll get 6 VPs - whereas if you have the Forum in the 6 slot, you would only get 1 VP for activating it. Cards that you don't anticipate activating often should go in the 5 or 6 slots. You also need to think about finding a way to get cards that combo with the Forum in a slot besides them, and this will also affect placement, so that you aren't forced to give up a good card on the table just because you need an important slot.

Keep trying, and hopefully things will start to click with more play - this really is a great game! Sometimes there can be epic 45 minute battles! On other occasions, you'll get a result within ten minutes, as happened in both games described in my session report.

Thread: Re: First impressions - I really like it, but feel there could be some fix.

galeninjapan — 2008-12-01T16:46:13+00:00

Thanks! I definitely have some combos in mind. I really want to get the Legat strategy to work.

I guess my real qualm about the game comes from the amount of actions the strategies take. The forum strategy takes two actions, while the other combos i was looking at take 3.

Thread: Re: First impressions - I really like it, but feel there could be some fix.

gamesbook — 2008-12-01T16:42:53+00:00

galeninjapan wrote:
Yugblad wrote:
Galen, your overall experience of the game is the complete opposite of mine.

What combo do you use? I really tried the last two games, but after an hour of futility I just gave in and bought forums.
Agree with Yugblad. Its not that forums don't work - just that they are the most obvious to beginners. Remember this is a card combo game; and there are lots of other good combos to try out [hint - a solid attack is one line-up you can make], given the right cards. Have a look through some of the other posts for this game and you'll get the idea.

Thread: Re: First impressions - I really like it, but feel there could be some fix.

galeninjapan — 2008-12-01T14:48:34+00:00

Yugblad wrote:
Galen, your overall experience of the game is the complete opposite of mine.

Also, if you lived a teeny bit closer, I'd demonstrate how to win without forums.

What combo do you use? I really tried the last two games, but after an hour of futility I just gave in and bought forums.

Thread: Re: First impressions - I really like it, but feel there could be some fix.

Yugblad — 2008-12-01T14:46:45+00:00

Galen, your overall experience of the game is the complete opposite of mine.

Also, if you lived a teeny bit closer, I'd demonstrate how to win without forums.

Thread: Re: First impressions - I really like it, but feel there could be some fix.

galeninjapan — 2008-12-01T04:28:09+00:00

verandi wrote:
There is a fix.... http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/30683

We'll see when it comes out I guess.

Thread: Re: First impressions - I really like it, but feel there could be some fix.

verandi — 2008-12-01T04:14:17+00:00

There is a fix.... http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/30683

Thread: First impressions - I really like it, but feel there could be some fix.

galeninjapan — 2008-12-01T03:57:48+00:00

I got this game recently and busted it out over the weekend, playing 4 games. I really like the way the dice are used and I really liked the different cards. However, each game was won using the "forum strategy." I put strategy in quotes because it doesn't really seem like a strategy, rather it seems like the logical way to play game. So much that I almost think that each player should begin the game with a forum. The other cards seem to do fun things, but these don't really seem to get you any closer to winning.

I think someone posted a fun strategy in another thread that was a combination of the Lagat and soldiers to gain VP while destroying your opponents buildings. I found that it requires too many actions to do effectively. You can spend 3 actions to maybe destroy 3 buildings. I tried to do this the last two games to no avail. I even lost to my girlfriend who I was teaching.

Compared to the forum strategy which only requires 2 action dice to use and you automatically get VP. In fact I think grabbing a few forums plus a tower is an unstoppable strategy. It becomes a race to get as many forums as possible.

My last complaint it the placement of characters and buildings. there doesn't seem to be any strategy in where to place them other than avoiding your opponents legions and vice versa.

I really like the mechanics of the game, but feel like the cards are rather dull. I think the designer missed some great combo opportunities. The forum is most definitely the ultimate card and most games become a race to grab forums. On top of that the game has the ability to go on forever. The game can end quick, but it can also go on for over 90 minutes. A game like this shouldn't last longer than 30-45 minutes.

Thread: Re: cards with activation cost that do not require activation with a die?

jearles — 2008-11-30T23:38:11+00:00

cwsipe wrote:
Thanks for setting us straight.

You are welcome... Have fun with Roma, it's a neat little two-player game. My wife and I haven't played it in a while; maybe it's time to dig it out again!

Thread: Re: cards with activation cost that do not require activation with a die?

cwsipe — 2008-11-30T23:15:26+00:00

jearles wrote:
The only time the gold must be payed is when the card is first played from your hand.

And there you have it...we were playing wrong! Now that I look in the rules, there are big red underlines under the coin that clearly explain it is the price of the card _when it is laid down_. I'm not sure how we missed it. We were playing when you _activate_ a card with the dice you pay the cost rather than when you lay it. The whole time we kept asking ourselves how can anyone ever run out of victory points if it costs nothing to lay a card down? This explains some of that. Thanks for setting us straight.

Thread: Re: cards with activation cost that do not require activation with a die?

jearles — 2008-11-30T22:15:51+00:00

cwsipe wrote:
My wife and I played our first game of Roma the other day and came up with several rules questions. All of them are addressed in the forums except this one: Why do some cards, for example Turis and Templum, have an activation cost when they do not require a die to be activated (at least as we understand the card text/rules)? Must this cost be payed when the effect of the card is evoked?

My first thought at first there might be a card that converted an in-play card to gold or something, but there doesn't seem to be such a card.

What do you mean by an "activation cost"? All cards have a cost to play (the Gold) and a defence value (the Shield). Turris and Templum do not require a die to activate them (that is the die with an X in the upper corner).

The only time the gold must be payed is when the card is first played from your hand.

Thread: Re: cards with activation cost that do not require activation with a die?

galeninjapan — 2008-11-30T22:11:21+00:00

Neither of those two cards hav an activation cost. The Turris is always in effect. The Templum may be activated when you use a forum.

Thread: cards with activation cost that do not require activation with a die?

cwsipe — 2008-11-30T22:03:06+00:00

My wife and I played our first game of Roma the other day and came up with several rules questions. All of them are addressed in the forums except this one: Why do some cards, for example Turis and Templum, have an activation cost when they do not require a die to be activated (at least as we understand the card text/rules)? Must this cost be payed when the effect of the card is evoked?

My first thought at first there might be a card that converted an in-play card to gold or something, but there doesn't seem to be such a card.

Thread: The Masked Man and his Gladiator get beaten up by Roman politicians (The 100 in 25 Challenge: #5, Week 1)

EndersGame — 2008-11-29T22:14:00+00:00

The 100 in 25 Challenge

This session report is part of a series known as The 100 in 25 Challenge: 100 Games, 25 Weeks, as a fellow GamerBuddy and I are on a quest to play at least 100 different games in less than 6 months.

For the most part, the Masked Man is quite at home in history. But is this also true for Ancient history? In today's episode, Mr Ender and the Masked Man travel to Rome, to see how they will fare among some of the Buildings and Characters of ancient Rome.

]]>

Game 1: The Bank's supply of Victory Points dries up

With the Masked Man being the starting player, Mr Ender decided to opt for two Buildings and give up two Characters to his opponent, including the powerful Sicarius. The Building strategy worked, because Mr Ender ended up with no Characters and four Buildings: a Forum, Aesculapium, Mercatus, and Machina.

The Masked Man played a Gladiator - normally a powerful card - but since Mr Ender only had green Buildings and no yellow Characters at this stage, the Gladiator was consigned to being a spectator. He did get one opportunity for action, when Mr Ender foolishly played a Senator, who was quickly tossed out of Rome by the Gladiator.

From then on Mr Ender used my card draw to focus exclusively on buildings, thus rendering the Masked Man's anti-Character cards like the Sicarius and Gladiator powerless. Soon Mr Ender found himself looking at three Forums, and a Machina which would allow him some flexibility.

]]>

At this rate, Mr Ender was able to use the Forums to score big Victory points almost every turn. If the numbers he needed weren't rolled, he could usually use the Machina to rearrange his buildings in the way he needed to make use of his dice rolls.

The Masked Man had one last chance: using a Legionary to attack my buildings. Two attacks failed. His Tribunus Plebis slowed down Mr Ender's inexorable march to victory (by taking a VP from his opponent most turns), but in the end the result was inevitable. Three Forums side by side is almost unstoppable, especially in combination with a Machina!

]]>

The result was a speedy 25-11 win to Mr Ender, as the Bank's supply of Victory Points was quickly used up.

Game 2: The Masked Man's supply of Victory Points dries up

In game two, Mr Ender opted for a completely different strategy. Being the starting player, he selected an Onager and Scaenicus, and immediately began attacking his opponent, with the aim of starving him of Victory Points. His Onager attack had immediate success, and the Masked Man was quickly on the back foot, losing 3 VPs already on his first turn.

Meanwhile the Masked Man was having little respite, with genuine dice troubles, and finding little way to get Characters and Buildings back onto the board, or a source for feeding his own supply of Victory Points.

Mr Ender played the Velites, and so even the Masked Man's last remaining characters were in danger. When Mr Ender used Scaenicus to copy the Velites and take out the Masked Man's third remaining card, he found himself staring at four empty building slots.

]]>

With only four VPs remaining, which the Masked Man would lose at the beginning of his next turn, the entire game was over in well under ten minutes. A completely different style of game from the previous one, but the same outcome.

Challenge Points: Mr Ender 1, Masked Man 0.

Final reflections about Roma

What I like about Roma is that there are different strategies one can adopt, and the above two games serve as perfect examples of the two main ways of winning. The first strategy is to try to get Victory Points by using Forums and similar cards, and try to outrace your opponent in a bid for the most points before Bank's supply is up. The second strategy is to try to blast away your opponent's Characters and Buildings, and force him to lose Victory Points. And of course, it's possible to blend both strategies, and sometimes you'll have to adapt your strategy halfway the game or switch gears, depending on the game situation. Our two games were over in no time, but we have also had some epic battles that lasted close to an hour.

Even though the game uses dice, it can be said to be dice done well, and it's a great two player game, certainly one of my favourites. I particularly enjoy the CCG-style cards, and the interaction between different Characters and Buildings. It has elements reminiscent of games like Settlers of Catan Card Game (without being as long or heavy), Hera & Zeus, and San Juan, but has its own distinct flavour, especially in how much of the game is about timing, optimizing the order of your moves to maximize card combos and interaction. Certainly it has luck-of-the-draw elments, but for the most part games go quick enough that this doesn't really matter, and you simply try to make the best of the cards you get. As the Masked Man discovered, sometimes both the cards and the dice just turn out lousy. When that happens, one can only just grit one's teeth, and find another source of entertainment or outlet for frustration, like destroying a game of Monopoly.

Stay tuned to hear more about the adventures of The Masked Man, as The 100 in 25 Challenge continues next time!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 100 in 25 Challenge Progress Log: Games 5, Weeks 1
Games played: Jambo (25/11), Lost Cities (25/11), Hera & Zeus (25/11), Pick Picknic (25/11), Roma (28/11)
Challenge Overall Points Leader Board: Mr Ender 5, Masked Man 1

Image

EndersGame — 2008-11-29T21:46:39+00:00

My opponent has only 2 of 6 buildings/characters left!

Image

EndersGame — 2008-11-29T20:45:39+00:00

VP generating machine: three Forums!

Image

EndersGame — 2008-11-29T19:27:20+00:00

A quick way to win: Three Forums and Machina!

Image

EndersGame — 2008-11-29T19:23:16+00:00

The Masked Man plays Roma

Image

bartlevy — 2008-11-23T20:50:08+00:00

Roma in Zuntzu

Thread: Re: Third times the Charm

jrebelo — 2008-11-17T22:37:45+00:00

Glad you're enjoying this game. It sounds like your 10 year old is a fairly astute gamer with an ironic name to boot. Roma is a great 2 player because it plays out really quickly and has a fast pace the whole way. I love games where I can play 3 or 4 times in an hour. The first one gets the rhythm going and starts to build the rivalry. That's the first battle, and then the war is yet to come.

Thread: Third times the Charm

TrekkerMJ — 2008-11-17T18:06:10+00:00

I got this little charm of a two-player from one of my gaming buddy/neighbors. I had been taking him to the University of Utah games with my season tickets and he unexpectedly rewarded me with a copy of Roma for my kindness. It was way too much in my mind as he is a veritable cornucopia of football knowledge so he is always fun to take to the games - even if he is a BYU fan.

Anyway, I had played this twice with my 10-yr old boy Chance. He loves the game because he absolutely crushed me in the first two go arounds. He'd get the Forum and Templum running and just abuse me. The second game we had played it was ridiculous as he Forum'ed me to death and I had like four VP by the time he finally ended the game. The funny thing is that, despite the beatdowns I had received, I really liked the mechanics and feel of the game. So Sunday night comes around and he wants to play a quick game and I propose Roma once again.

This game was unlike the previous two. He gets his opening hand and is already proclaiming victory. "You are so dead, Dad!" was a trumpeting call. I figured that I needed to go on the offensive and kept the Legionarius card to dish some heat and kept Haruspex for some card love. We trade and I get a Mercatus and another Legionarius. We start going and I successfully had set a Legionarius across from his Forum. Unfortunately, he flips a Turris in the 1 position to up his defense. The Forum isn't going away any time quickly.

We go in to this game and Chance fills up his side of the board fairly quickly. I struggle a bit and use card abilities rather than going for the gold and card draw. He gets a Basilica by the Forum and is just salivating at the opportunity to use them. Fortunately he never sees a Templum come up like he has in the past few games. I get a Onagur out but the Turris keeps my Onagur and Legionarius from doing much damage.

With that set up, Chance takes a lead over me but not by so much. When he hits a Forum on the '4' slot he never has a high second dice to cash in on it. Even with the Templum, Chance was never able to cash out more than 6 points on the Forum. My offensive side of two Legionarius, a Onagur and soon joined by a Velites is hacking away at his side. While the Forum stays on board, the Templum succumbs to the heat as do other minor characters. He's able to block my Forum and some of my attacks through adroit use of his Praetorianus at times. I'm also able to minorly leech off his Forum with the Mercatus a few times and then I finally activate my Haruspex. With that action I search the draw deck to pull a Forum and match it up quickly with a Basilica of my own.

We are running pretty much neck to neck when I call the ball - "If I roll good on my Forum you are toast Chance". Sure enough, I roll a 5 to activate my Forum with a '6' dice as the points and get another 2 from the Basilica. I pull the last 8 VPs from the bank and the game is set. We count up and Chance is at 14 while I'm at 22. So we had been exactly tied before I punched the Forum button.

So, third time was a charm for me in Roma. Chance still likes the game as he understands that it was very close and came down to a good roll on my Forum and a not so good roll on his own Forum. We never saw a Mercator or a Tribunus Plebis so VPs were pretty secure on each side. So it was a knife fight to the end and I just got the cleaner cut through the toga and ended my losing streak at Roma!

Thread: Re: The Caylus MC variant for Roma: The game must end!

jrebelo — 2008-11-13T06:41:32+00:00

This is very surprising to me to hear. I've never seen a game of Roma (excluding games where I am teaching a new player) run more than 15 or 20 minutes. With the games I've had it's always one of two scenarios.

One player falls behind enough that the are quickly drained of all VP to end the game or else both players manage to acquire VP at a quick rate and drain the bank very quickly.

I don't mean any jab or anything, but are you positive you're playing all of the rules correctly? It seems remarkable that anyone could have this game dragging on.

Thread: The Caylus MC variant for Roma: The game must end!

caltino — 2008-11-13T03:50:49+00:00

This game is fun but it can drag on and on when the sides attack each other viciously and cause VPs to be lost. Having just played Caylus Magna carta, I think the built in timer in that game can help here:

In any turn when VPs are not claimed from the general supply, one 1 vp token is put out of the game.

This does decrease the room for error as the available VPs dwindle down, and make the final grab for points with a forum + temple more critical, but it keeps the game at a manageable length.

Thread: Re: Covering cards

Bernd — 2008-11-04T23:18:23+00:00

Again, covered cards means: discard them.
Hope that helps and all the best from Germany
Bernd

Thread: Re: Covering cards

Jules81 — 2008-11-04T21:28:24+00:00

In the dutch rules it says that some specific cards have the ability to cover a building card. Since it specificly says 'cover a building card' could have to me only two explanations:

1. Each other person card can not be put on a place where there is a building. The person with the ability to cover a building is an exeption, after doing this the building has to be discared.

2. You can put this card on top of a building and the building stays in the game. (what happens in this case with the building I don;t know)

For both options I can not find anything in the limited rules.

Thread: Re: This is the Best 2 Player Game Yet

AmberRose — 2008-10-22T01:04:07+00:00

GodfatherPTS wrote:
Well under 30 minute play time (usually about 20 min or so).

I find that the games that last 45 minutes are the ones I relish. One of Roma's few faults is that it can be rather unbalanced due to the cards drawn and numbers rolled. However, these games are over quickly (even under 20 min.). The amazing games involve two equally balanced sides requiring someone to perform some evasive maneuvers to get the edge. I LOVE those games of Roma.

Agreed.

Thread: Re: Roma Microbadge now available

jrebelo — 2008-10-21T21:28:12+00:00

Haha, where's yours?

If I had gg, I would have this badge!

Balance: 0.0 :

Thread: Re: How much "take that"?

jrebelo — 2008-10-21T21:25:31+00:00

cull wrote:
This looks like a game my wife might play with me, but I'm concerned about the "take that" factor. She doesn't enjoy that sort of thing much.

How significant is the "screw your neighbor" in this game? What other games would you compare it to, in this respect?

Much thanks

I know exactly what you're talking about, my friend. My girlfriend has a problem where when something in the game happens to screw her in any way, the fun just vanishes and she will start acting like she's not enjoying it. It's not a problem with the game, she's just a poor sport when it comes to losing. I would rather not play anything at all than throw games just to keep her playing with me, so I haven't been playing as much Roma with her lately. She has beaten me on several occasions, which is the weird thing. She's beaten me at least half the games we've had (as I've been admittedly less aggressive than I might have been), yet even after winning 2 in a row, if I blast her Forum to hell, she doesn't like it at all.

If you have a wife like that, consider something a bit less conflict-based, perhaps. If she can be a good sport, however, (or even if you can find another person to play with), BUY THIS GAME. It's a fantastic little 2-player which plays so fast that once you are experienced you can easily get 2 or even 3 games in a half hour.

I just introduced a co-worker to this game for the first time and he had fun. The first game I beat him pretty handily, but the second game he got the hang of it and I was unable to find any VP generating cards in the first few rounds, which saw me down to 3 VP on his turn. He had a roll which allowed him to end the game by taking 2 VP from me and leaving me with 1 VP to start my turn with 2 or 3 empty discs. He opted to let me survive, however, because we'd have nothing to do for the rest of the lunch break. I ended up getting my forum planted between my basillica and templum and then I rolled the perfect storm...yes, you know the one. 6 on my forum, 6 on my templum plus 2 on the basillica for a grand total of 14 VP in one roll. While it was nice to cash in huge, I actually rolled another almost perfect storm a couple turns later with something like 12 VP more and won the game.

I wish it hadn't played out that way because if I was this friend, I would get the impression that this is a heavily luck-dependent game. I explained, though, that knowing the deck and the game allows you to work around the luck by using cards which allow you to dig into the card piles for desired cards (get back those forums or the mercator, for example) and to keep knocking out my cards to force me to rebuild instead of attack. He seemed to enjoy it anyways and so I think it will come up again.

Thread: Re: This is the Best 2 Player Game Yet

GodfatherPTS — 2008-10-14T19:28:56+00:00

Well under 30 minute play time (usually about 20 min or so).

I find that the games that last 45 minutes are the ones I relish. One of Roma's few faults is that it can be rather unbalanced due to the cards drawn and numbers rolled. However, these games are over quickly (even under 20 min.). The amazing games involve two equally balanced sides requiring someone to perform some evasive maneuvers to get the edge. I LOVE those games of Roma.

Thread: The Super-Atomic Senator

russellg — 2008-09-27T15:01:45+00:00

Only after 40+ games has it become clear that the SENATOR is one of the most devastating cards in the deck. Who knew?

Collect a bunch of expensive strong attack cards (CENTURION, ASSASSIN, GLADIATOR, MERCATOR) and wait until the beginning of a turn. Spend 3 gold to put down the SENATOR, activate him, and place cards everywhere with the 2 most devastating cards on the other 2 rolled dice.

Your opponent is instantly on the ropes!

The question remains: Is the ARCHITECT a power card as well?

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

jrebelo — 2008-09-23T00:32:27+00:00

My copy has been in the mail for a week and I'm itching to play it.

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

Acoriano3 — 2008-09-21T22:28:54+00:00

Thanks for the replies--looks like I'll have to invest in Roma!

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

russellg — 2008-09-21T10:33:18+00:00

I agree that there's no contest between Roma and Hellas.

Steven, you should definitely not wait for Roma II. Who knows if that game will be even as good as the original.

I do agree with you, Robert, about the first player advantage, although there is a very simple adustment that's bandied about: Give player two 11 VPs at the start.

I had also been thinking about adjusting the dice, although I was going to test out simply giving the first player TWO dice on his first turn, and then proceeding normally after that.

In the end, however, Roma is such a great game, you don't really NEED any fixes. I read somewhere (I think from Steven Feld) that most unbalanced games end pretty quickly, while a good fair match lasts a while. So it's kind of like tennis.

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

UhhhClem — 2008-09-21T07:08:33+00:00

Hellas is a very different kind of game from Roma: it's a territorial game with an exploration component. It also hasn't been developed with anything like the care that Roma has: there's a seemingly unending list of ambiguities and questions that the all-important action cards raise and the rules don't answer, which ultimately makes the game too frustrating for my taste. Finally, the back-and-forth between the players in Hellas is pretty one-dimensional. (Do I start the turn with more Greeks than you? Then I'm winning.) In Roma there are many different ways for even a strong position to be weak, and many ways to exploit a stronger opponent's weakness.

Roma is an incredible game. It's by far Stefan Feld's best design, and that's saying something. I've played it 60 or 70 times and still find it absorbing and entertaining.

I haven't yet tried nerfing the Mercator, because it has seemed to me that while it's a devastating card if you get it to explode, it takes a lot of tempo to set up the bomb, and while you're setting up your opponent can just kill you.

If I were going to fix something in Roma it would be the first-player advantage. In a significant percentage of games, the first player can both play a card and kill one of his opponent's on the first turn, leaving the second player scrambling to catch up instead of fighting back. This is a problem because the starting position is so precarious; when this happens, the second player often hits the ground before he has a chance to open his chute.

It seems to me (I haven't tested this) that the game ought to ramp up the action dice, so that the first player gets one die for his first turn, the second player gets two for his, and then both players get the full complement of dice from the second turn on.

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

Acoriano3 — 2008-09-21T05:04:12+00:00

I've also been eying Hellas...I'm not sure if these games are similar enough in theme and mechanic to justify having both. Is it worth waiting for Roma II cause it sounds like an updated + expanded version of the original?

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

russellg — 2008-09-21T00:40:20+00:00

You should really consider moving Roma to the top of your list. I'm surprised this game doesn't have a greater following/buzz. It's one of the best I've ever played.

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

Acoriano3 — 2008-09-20T23:59:39+00:00

russellg wrote:
The "new" cards in the game CITADELS is a good example of expansion components that add nothing to the game. The same can be said of the "Deluxe" additions to LOTR: THE CONFRONTATION.
Funny you say that...I actually LIKE the extra characters and districts from Citadels' Dark City expansion. They don't "fix" anything or make it better, but they do offer a great deal of variety which is what I think is its purpose.

I also thoroughly enjoy the extra options offered in the Deluxe LOTR: The Confrontation. Again, there's no real "fix" or necessary improvement, but the new characters, powers, and cards make for more strategic options...thus, I believe that add a great deal to the game.

I'm encouraged by your posting as well cause I've been eying Roma for quite some time now.

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

russellg — 2008-09-20T20:48:15+00:00

Fair enough... then It's my house rule.

Enjoy!

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

Yugblad — 2008-09-20T19:54:22+00:00

I've played many, many games of Roma against different players and the Mercator never seems to be as broken as folk here insist.

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

russellg — 2008-09-20T17:46:05+00:00

I got the Mercator fix from this thread:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/82272

and here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/134741

Regardless, it completely balances out the power of the Mercator. I've tested this over 50 games. (Unchecked, he can still wipe out an opponent in 1-3 turns.)

So I recommend this rule wholeheartedly.

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

Windopaene — 2008-09-20T17:33:36+00:00

I thought the same thing, but was then contradicted by said publisher, who claimed they had made no such suggestion, and that it was unneccessary.

I agree three VPs per activation fixes it a bit...

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

russellg — 2008-09-20T16:11:05+00:00

Limit PER ACTIVATION: Swap 2 gold for 1 VP up to a maxium of 3 VP.

Thus, if your dice rolls allow you to activate the Mercator three times in your turn, then you could buy a total of 9 VP from your opponent.

This fix came in a response from the publisher in one of the forums.

Thread: Re: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

TheEye — 2008-09-20T15:47:49+00:00

Just curious, in what way did you decide to deal with the mercator?

Thread: Re: Forum / Mercator

latindog — 2008-09-20T15:43:40+00:00

David O'Neil is correct -- you're posting the exact same system that the original poster was using. What the original poster seemed to mean but perhaps did not make clear was that the price for each coin would rise to the levels that he listed. That yields the same prices that you note.

I also thought your original response to David O'Neil came off as rude as well -- whether that was your intent or not.

Thread: Why I don't like to add variants and new cards to ROMA

russellg — 2008-09-20T15:05:50+00:00

This game is nearly perfect (after fixing the one bug with the Mercator.)

Most of the cards have such diverse strengths and weaknesses that you can play 100 games and always explore new strategies.

While many games benefit from expansions, the limitations of Roma's closed set is what makes it so great.

The "new" cards in the game CITADELS is a good example of expansion components that add nothing to the game. The same can be said of the "Deluxe" additions to LOTR: THE CONFRONTATION.

Roma is a perfect game with it's limited set. I hope ROMA II doesn't muck it up.

Thread: Re: This is the Best 2 Player Game Yet

russellg — 2008-09-19T21:43:05+00:00

I agree.

There is no single game that I have played so many times, and there are so many different strategies.

I'm suprised this game isn't a sensation.

Image

manolovila — 2008-09-02T11:17:22+00:00

Roma Board - Tablero by Manolo Vila

Thread: Re: The worst "best" game of 2006

XSiberia — 2008-08-28T18:14:40+00:00

I am frustrated with this game. It seems to be that only the forum-vp strategy is viable, and that legionaire or other 'attack' based strategies cannot overcome the simple strategy of ignoring your opponent and pursuing VPs through your forums. In which case, this game is essentially two people playing solitaire as a race.

I took this game on a recent vacation with my wife, who is not a gamer but is willing to humor me.

We played upwards of a dozen games. In each game her strategy was to get out forums and quickly suck the VP pool dry.

I wanted to explore the game parameters and see what other strategies could work. However, I found that, over and over again, no strategy allowed me to get VPs as quickly as my wife was able to through forums.

Often, when I felt I had finally gotten a combination of cards into play that would let me win if I had enough turns to whittle her down (such as legionaires/centurios+consiliatus), the game was too far gone and my own reserve of VPs no longer robust enough to turn the tide (especially as she liked the mercatur card).

Thread: Re: Laying cards

dwrigley — 2008-08-25T14:08:34+00:00

Anywhere you want.
Cards that you cover are discarded

Thread: Laying cards

emvee — 2008-08-25T13:32:51+00:00

May I lay cards from my hand anywhere I want, or only at position of unused die value?

e.g.: values of dies: 1,2,3. Am I limited to lay new card only on 1st, 2nd and 3rd position?

Thread: Re: Not Twilight Struggle

ChrisHandy — 2008-08-19T07:22:40+00:00

I find that the longer games are the great ones. When the player who is behind CAN'T end the game by taking victory points...he must figure out how to dismantle the other players side, and change the standings. This kind of game in Roma is 1 in 5 games...maybe. That said, the others are ok...but the 1 in 5 are fantastic.

Thread: Re: Not Twilight Struggle

GeneSteeler — 2008-08-19T07:02:56+00:00

Yeah, but it was still fun.

Never quite sure what you'll get from Roma. An hour long slugathon or a 3 minute filler...

Thread: Not Twilight Struggle

MerricB — 2008-08-19T06:03:24+00:00

After our game of Combat Commander: Europe, I was running out of time before my D&D session, so I grabbed a game that I enjoy but haven't played much of recently: Roma.

Randy and I quickly played two games of it, with the emphasis on the word "quickly". In previous games, our struggles have been titanic, earth-shaking, down-to-the-wire and have lasted at least half-an-hour!

Not so this time. Randy and I were left at the end of each game wondering what had happened.

The first game saw us sniping at each other in the early game with legionnaire and actor pretending to take that role (fairly effectively as well), which whittled down both of our victory points appreciatively. I was the first to build a forum, and thus began to recover my VPs. Randy did likewise, and soon we were in a VP race. I reached 18 VPs, half of those available, and then Randy made his final roll...

He studied his cards. He studied the dice. He looked at them again. Finally, after seeking some advice from his opponent (that was me, in case you weren't paying attention), he took the remaining 5 VPs available in the game, and finished on 18 VPs as well. It was a tie.

And yes, we know he could have gotten 6 VPs if the dice had come up that way regardless of the lack of chits. No, the most he could get was 5 VPs. With one more gold, he could have played something to take a VP off me, but no such luck.

The second game saw me dealt two Actors and a Gladiator, a horrible, horrible hand, because I'd have to give one to Randy. Off went an Actor, with a "die a horrible death, traitor!" pinned to his back. Unfortunately, he didn't. My Gladiator did.

All in all, this was Game of the Death Spiral, with both of us losing VPs at a rapid rate and not regaining them. I managed to roll a 1,1,2, which really what I didn't want to see - I couldn't play or activate anything. Finally, Randy played a Merchant and bought my final 4 VPs to put me out of my misery.

Roma can have some great, lengthy (for it) games, but both of these were incredibly short and quick. So short, that it was time to play one more game before I left... but not of Roma. We'd need another ten or so of it!

Thread: Re: Legat

ChrisHandy — 2008-07-30T01:02:50+00:00

It's pricey!

Image

Kodeir — 2008-07-10T19:52:09+00:00

Box back (high resolution)

Image

Kodeir — 2008-07-10T19:51:08+00:00

Box front (high resolution)

Image

Kodeir — 2008-07-10T19:49:50+00:00

Counter sheets 3 & 4

Image

Kodeir — 2008-07-10T19:48:32+00:00

Counter sheets 1 & 2

Thread: Re: Money Count

matt71 — 2008-07-08T00:54:06+00:00

Thanks Bernd.