Game: Battlegroup

Thread: Re: Example of Play link broken anyone have?

Subhuman — 2008-03-12T00:15:50+00:00

Thanks

Thread: Re: Example of Play link broken anyone have?

niennunb — 2008-03-10T00:39:29+00:00

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.lostbattalion.com/t-pc2005_3_01.aspx

Thread: Example of Play link broken anyone have?

Subhuman — 2008-03-09T19:40:06+00:00

The Example of Play link at the bottom of the page is broken does anyone know if it moved or have an offline copy of it?

Thanks.

Thread: Re: Wargaming fun, Euro nightmare

ramis — 2008-01-02T22:29:01+00:00

Skiprydell wrote:
I've thought about acquiring this game, so thanks for the thorough review. I wonder how it stacks up against Phalanx's Naval Battles?

I have not played naval battle yet. I have a couple of Wargames that I need to try before this one. I don't know if the game is good, but it's by phalanx, so you know that the material quality will be there.

For battlegroup, considering that Lost Battalion Games is a small company, I was plesantly suprised by the cards. I endjoy the game. Considering the price, and if your a real wargame fan, you won't be disapointed. The price is relatively affordable 29.95$.

Thread: Re: Wargaming fun, Euro nightmare

Skiprydell — 2008-01-02T17:08:17+00:00

I've thought about acquiring this game, so thanks for the thorough review. I wonder how it stacks up against Phalanx's Naval Battles?

Thread: Re: Wargaming fun, Euro nightmare

Stradk — 2008-01-02T09:55:38+00:00

how can you take difficulty in to your appreciation rating? so you would appreciate a game with the highest possible difficulty rating the most?

I dont think so and maybe you should try other factors for your average rating.. Just a suggestion

Thread: Wargaming fun, Euro nightmare

ramis — 2008-01-02T02:01:47+00:00

Battlegroup is a game edited by Lost Battalion Games
It’s basically a card driven game on the 1939 to 1945 naval battles.

When you purchase the game, you end up getting two sets of cards. One deck is the 64 action cards that will dictate the time when to do your action and the possible actions (there is two of them on every card). The other deck, witch is divided in two, are the representation of the 64 axis and allies ships. There is also two sets of 6F, 8F and 10F dices and blue and orange cubes witch will act respectively as damage and dockyard markers. You get one rule book and everything come in a box covered with a carton sleeve where is printed the design of the cover and backside.

Material review

The cards
Fore those familiar with the GMT cards you will find similarities. The surfaces of the cards are high gloss similar to the GMT cards, but good god, they are not as rigid as those. In fact they are quite flexible and can be shuffled bridge style easily. The design of the cards is very well done. Every ship and action cards is made like a post card with stamps on it and there is a light background design on some of the cards. All the indications to how and when to play the cards are well indicated on them so after a few rounds of play you won't have to refer to the rule book anymore. The only downside to the cards would be that they should have been bigger. Since the cards are carrying two action with the detail of when to play them, the information contained on the cards his compressed to fit and the cards look really crowded. This comment apply also to the ship cards. On those, the stamps that are carrying the information to solve the battles are really compressed. You are always stretching you neck to see you opponents cards and stamps on them.
For a small company like Lost Battalion, I would rate the cards 8/10

The miscellaneous material
The miscellaneous material is composed of 10 blue cubes, 4 orange cubes and two sets of 6F, 8F and 10Faces dices. They all seems of good quality. My only beef would be on the 6 faces dices, the corners could have been rounded up a little bit more.
I would rate the miscellaneous material 8/10

The rule book
The rule book is like a home made printed version on 8.5 x 11 paper held in the middle with arrows. There is coloured pictures of the cards and game settings. The artisan look of the rule book would be a small aspect if it wasn’t for the fact that the information needed to comprehend the game is delivered all compressed and without examples. You have to go through the rule book two or even three times before having a good feel of the game. In fact, even after my third reading, I had to refer to Marc Beauregard who is the WBC 2007 battlegroup winner for some clarification. After, I found that some battle examples described on the Lost Battalion web site. Those examples should really be part of the rule book for a better comprehension.
I would rate the rules book 5/10

The Box
The box looks like a small shoe box with a light carton sleeve where is printed the box cover and backside. The box looks like a Memoir’44 expansion box for those familiar with that game. The graphics on the sleeve are well done.
I would rate the rules book 6/10

Set up

The game can be played by two, three or four players. In a three player game, there shall be one team and in a four player game there shall be two teams.
In a two or four player game, each player take randomly 6 ship cards of their respective side and 6 action cards. In a three player game, the lone player takes 9 ship cards and 9 action cards.

The ship cards are placed in front of each player. The destroyers are place on the front line and the aircraft carriers at the back. On the destroyer cards there are three stamps where a combination of 1 to 3 of the 6F, 8F or 10F dices are showed. The first stamp represent the surface combat power for close range attacks. The second stamp (red stamp) represent the anti-aircraft power of a ship. The third represent the protection of the ship (armour, water tight compartment, ect…).

The aircraft carrier has five stamps with same combination of 1 to 3 of the 6F, 8F or 10F dices. The first stamp (grey) represent the carrier air protection. It’s purpose is to attack the opposite carrier air strike defence to try to damage or destroy an enemy air strike launch from an enemy aircraft carrier. The defence stamp (blue) represent the planes air protection following the carrier air strike bombers. The carrier air strike stamp (orange) represent the carrier bomber aircraft power that will attack enemy ships. You have also on the carrier cards the anti-aircraft and protection stamps as per the destroyers.

Playing the game

A player can choose to play a single card on it’s turn (only one cards can be played except on sorties). The player has to use the section of the action card where the text begins with ‘’Use during any Turn’’ and apply the action. The player his not obliged to play a card. He can choose to draw one card from the action card pile. This will end his turn.

In order to intensify battles, a player may choose to play a sortie card. This allow each player to play more than one action card in a round. The sortie cards have a day and night variant A day sortie consist of two rounds. One distant round associated with a day sortie where you launch a carrier air strike raid to try to sink enemy destroyers or air craft carriers, and one close round associated with a day or night sortie where your destroyers will try to sink enemy ships. For a day sortie cards, each player will play the distant round starting with the player who played the sortie card. Then the players will play a close round in the same order. For the night sortie cards each player will play a close round only.

To launch attacks during a sortie, the phasing player must put all the cards that he wants to play face down on is battleship cards, one per battleship. He then reveals them one at a time, indicating the target ship and resolving the battles. All the player will do so during the distant and close round. If a player (any player) can sink two enemy ships, the sortie is considered won and the battles stop immediately. All the players will earn the points indicated on the battleship card for each battleship sank. And the winner of the sortie will earn the victory points indicated on that card. If no player can sink two ships, then the sortie card is discarded and the victory points lost. During battles, players can also play cards not associated with a ship but that can help them improved there chance of achieving there goals. Those cards are described has so.

When no sortie card is on the table, the players will take this time to rebuilt there hand by drawing one card per turn, try to reinforce the squadron or send a ship to the dockyard for repairs. They can also make a single attack on a ship.

The way to resolve battles is by using the dice associated with action or reaction of a player. Each player, starting with the offensive player will use the dice(s) indicated on the ship or action card stamp. The players take the highest score on a throw and compare. Example: A player can throw a 6F and 8F dice. He gets a result of 6 with the 6F dice and 2 with the 8F dice. Then his firing power will be 6. The offensive player needs to have a score higher than the defensive player to damage the ship or action card. A damaged ship or action card will have a –2 dice modifier on the next throw witch will reduce is fire or protection power. If the offensive player can double the score of the defensive player, then the cards or ship are fatally damaged. The action card is then discarded or the ship card his won by the attacking player.

Example of one battle

The axis player use the aircraft carrier Shukaku to launch an attack during a day sortie of a distant round. He put an action card on the ship face down and reveals it to the allied player witch is a carrier air strike card. The axis player designate the target, the Wisconsin destroyer. The destroyer uses is anti-aircraft guns to try to stop the air raid. The destroyer becomes the offensive player and will try to cause damage or fatally wound the air strike. The destroyer has three dices showed on is anti-aircraft stamp (red) 6F, 8F and 10F dice. The air strike bombers are accompanied by an aircraft defence squad to protect them. The defence squad will react using the dices showed on the defence blue stamp a 6F and 8F dice. The allied player, has the offensive player, throw first. He gets the following results: 2 with the 6F dice, 8 for the 8F dice and 6 with the 10F dice. The attack power of the destroyer is then 8. The axis player throw is dices and gets 6 for the 6F dice and 4 for the 8F dice. The allied player has a higher score but he wasn’t able double the score. So the carrier air strike card has been damage. The axis player puts a marker on the card to designate the damage and a modifier of –2 will apply on the next throw. Now that the bomber of the air strike squad were able to pass the anti-aircraft battery of the destroyer, the bombers can launch an attack on the destroyer.
The axis player becomes the offensive player and use is carrier air strike dices listed on the corresponding stamp on the aircraft carrier card. The axis player can use a 8F and 10F dice. The player throw a 2 with the 8F dice and an 8 with the 10F. Since the air strike cards has been damaged before, the axis player must apply a –2 modifier to his throw, so the final result is 8-2 = 6 for the axis player. The allied player needs to use the ship protection listed on the green stamp in order to resist the bombardments. The allied player can use a 8F and 10F dice to protect itself. The allied player has a bad throw and gets a 3 with 8F dice and a 1 with the 10F dice. Since the score of the offensive axis player is double the defensive result, the ship suffers a fatal blow and his sunk. The axis player take the Wisconsin destroyer card along with the victory points.

During the course of a game, a ship can be damaged several time but the –2 modifier only applies once. A damage ship can be taken to the dockyard and be repaired regaining is full power.

End of the game

When all the action cards have been played, the players count their victory points listed on the opponent sunk ships and sortie cards won during the operation. The player with the most points win the operation. All the action cards are re-shuffled and a new operation phase starts. The winner of the game his the first player or team that has won two operations.

Game rating

Difficulty:
The game in it’s self his not really difficult once you have manage to clearly understand the rules witch his the difficult part. Play examples in the rule book would be necessary to achieve so. Note to LBG, put some examples in the rule book. After a few round, the cards deliver the information easily and play is moving smoothly.
I would rate the difficulty level at 6/10

Chance:
Chance play an important role in the game. The ships are drawned randomly, so you can end up with a week squadron. The action cards are drawned also randomly. So a player can end up having lots of air strike cards and not have any aircraft carrier to use them. And all the battles are resolved using dices. Can you have more randomness than this?
So I would rate the chance level at 10/10

Strategy:
Since there is a lots of randomness in a game, the strategy factor really suffers. But still you need to apply a strategy to know when and how to launch an attack or take a break of battle.
So I would rate the strategy level at 5/10

Interaction:
Of course the interaction factor between players is at the maximum level except for the sporadic moments where each player his rebuilding is hand or reinforcing is squadron .
So I would rate the interaction level 9/10

Overall appreciation

This is the kind of game that wargamers will like and Eurogamers will love to hate. The game can be easily explained when you have mastered the rules (witch is the tough part). For those who cannot handle the chance factor or like analysis paralysis kind of games, this one is surely not for you. But if the chance factor doesn’t bother you, this game can really kick some ass. People who like Memoir’44 will surely enjoy this game. It might not be the type of game that you will play each week because of it’s length (1h30 to 2 hours) But the set up of the game is easy and you don’t have to place all the terrain tiles and all the units that you would have to do when playing a memoir’44 game. You can also cut on time by playing one operation instead of two to win the game.
The game is really dedicated to wargamers. It might not be the best one on the market, but the wargamers should like this one.

I have rated the game as a 7.5 for the overall appreciation

Take note that this review is based on my personnel appreciation of the game and might differ from one person to another.

Sorry for any English mistakes or grammar errors, English is not my first language.

Thread: Re: A couple of rules questions...

DFu4ever — 2007-09-21T16:54:17+00:00

Thank you

Thread: Re: A couple of rules questions...

bigcheese — 2007-09-19T12:35:39+00:00

Yes.

Thread: A couple of rules questions...

DFu4ever — 2007-09-17T22:01:48+00:00

I just have a few pretty simple questions concerning the rules. Mostly just clarification of the rules. Yes or no answers would do just fine

1) You can only draw one action card from the deck at the end of your turn, regardless of how many you used. Is this accurate? Does this typically lead to a few back to back rounds where players just draw cards to replenish their hands?

2) The gauntlet that air strikes have to run is as follows...a) Defense vs. CAP (if played), b) Defense vs. AA, c) Offense vs. Protection. Is this accurate?

3) When a sortie has both a distant and close component, then the sortie will last two full rounds (one for each), correct?

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Bostich — 2007-06-06T02:50:11+00:00

The Missouri

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Bostich — 2007-06-06T02:49:19+00:00

Battlegroup Setup

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gstrand — 2007-03-23T14:46:16+00:00

Packaging shot

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gstrand — 2007-03-23T14:45:36+00:00

What's in the box

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gstrand — 2007-03-23T14:45:01+00:00

Yikes! the guts upon first view.

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gstrand — 2007-03-23T14:44:18+00:00

First opening of the game...

Thread: Re: 2006 WBC Championship

Jeff Billings — 2007-03-13T21:15:08+00:00

We have entered Battlegroup as a 2007 World Boardgaming Championships trial event. We have expanded the qualifying round to 2 additional session so you will have plenty of opportunity to try for the wood.

See you there.

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rkaski — 2007-01-25T15:58:49+00:00

Truly ready for Surface Combat!

Thread: 2006 WBC Championship

Jeff Billings — 2006-10-11T22:14:59+00:00

http://www.lostbattalion.com/t-lp_battleships.aspx describes the WBC2006 World Championship finals.

Thread: Re: A more thoughtful

Jeff Billings — 2006-09-12T22:12:28+00:00

The Boardgame Players Association World Boardgaming Championship 2006 hosted an official Battlegroup tournament. My article recounting the championship round is at http://www.lostbattalion.com/t-lp_battleships.aspx

Thread: Re: Distant and near round clarification

Jeff Billings — 2006-08-08T18:31:25+00:00

Airstrikes only require that a day sortie is in play. The choice of the target is the attacking players.

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thoia — 2006-04-28T02:42:35+00:00

Some of the Axis boats

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thoia — 2006-04-28T02:35:21+00:00

Some of the Allies boats.

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thoia — 2006-04-27T23:18:34+00:00

Action cards

Thread: Re: Sortie Card Clarification

bigcheese — 2006-01-24T12:50:45+00:00

I didn't see your post before. Thanks for the reply.

Thread: Distant and near round clarification

bigcheese — 2006-01-24T12:49:53+00:00

During a distant round can air strikes be launched against battleships as well as carriers? Does the same apply during close round? If no restrictions apply is the main benefit of a day sortie therefor the ability to attack over 2 rounds to achieve victory?

Thread: Re: Sortie Card Clarification

Bk_Seal — 2006-01-05T02:50:53+00:00

Matthew,

You have it right. All the advantages/disadvantages of a sortie apply to both sides. Allies normally shun night attacks. The best thing is when you can in one fell swoop, start a sortie, attack and sink 2 enemy ships, thus ending the sortie. Your opponent never has a chance to respond.

Paul

Thread: Sortie Card Clarification

bigcheese — 2005-12-20T19:32:38+00:00

During a sortie can any player, as well as the one placing the card, on their turn play an action card off the sortie cards and to the side. For example could a Mine Attack card be played during a Night Invasion? This would mean that the player who places the sortie card has the disadvantage of having to play an extra card but has the advantage of taking the initiative as well as being able to plan their overall attack.

Thanks

Thread: Re: Historic Scenarios

goldenboat — 2005-11-18T01:21:32+00:00

There's nothing to stop you from constructing historical OBs for famous battles off Guadalcanal (or whatever), but the game covers only flattops and battleships (with escort ships and destroyers represented by generic action cards).

It's worth noting that much of the game's tempo and strategy comes out of knowing when to build your hand, and when to launch a sorte (in the form of a day or night attack of varying types). Reducing the game down to (essentially) a single sorte in isolation from the rest of the game might prove a hollow experience.

But I'd be curious to see what you came up with -- maybe a scripted series of sorties with historical participants built around an extended naval campaign in the Solomons or ...?

As far as being "historical" is concerned ... if on a 1-10 scale, Memoir '44 rates a "5" for historical fidelity, then Battlegroup is probably a "3." It's true that the game will see Italian and Japanese ships in the same groups, and that the system is pretty coarse-grained when it comes to depicting the specific capabilities of those ships, but you do get a bit of history if you examine the comparative abilities of the ships themselves, and you can see at a glance the difference between superships like the Iowa and various lesser classes.

I don't expect a lot of history when I play games like Battlegroup, but this design definitely scratches my battleship itch. It may not have "scenarios" as in Memoir '44 but the interaction of the various ships feels at least as historical as M44 (which is admittedly pretty light in this regard).

Good game. Recommended if you love WWII battlewagons and aren't put off by the price.

Thread: Historic Scenarios

bigcheese — 2005-11-17T17:46:58+00:00

It has been commented that the game is a little abstract becuase while the decks are split Axis / Allies the rules allow for ship combinations that didn't and could never have occured. Would it be possible to configure decks to represent actual WWII engagements. Would this require extra ship and/or action cards. What makes games like Memoir '44 and wargamming in general so appealing to me is the historical aspect.

Thread: Re: Great graphic design. But pricing is a little much?

goldenboat — 2005-11-01T00:29:40+00:00

Thirty bones is on the high side for the components by their lonesome, but I think Battlegroup will prove a bargain in the long run for the play value I expect to get out of this game. We've certainly played the heck out of BG's sister game Brawling Battleships (which costs a bit more when you count the expansion, but doesn't have color cards).

I don't mind paying a premium to support a company that's making fun games while facing the economic realities of low print runs and the limited appeal of games in this niche. Order direct from LBG and ask for a free copy of Battleships in Action; that way you can convince yourself you got two games for your money instead of one.

I appreciate that price can be an issue for many gamers, but if the theme appeals and you like simple games that play quickly, I think this one is worth the splurge.

Thread: Four players (three brand new to the game)

ctalbot — 2005-07-15T13:22:24+00:00

Four of us met up last night to try out Battlegroup. The host, David, had played the game once or twice, and the rest of us (Chris N., Bill and myself) had never played the game before. So for the most part, the session was meant to be a teaching session rather than a competitive game.

We played two rounds. In the first round, Chris N. and David took on the Allied deck, and Bill and I took on the Axis deck. In the second round, we switched decks.

The first round was kind of rough, as we were all still learning the rules and how each of the cards worked (not that we were experts at the end of the session, mind you). Going around clockwise, the place settings were David, me, Chris N. and Bill.

David went first, and for the entire first operation, all we played were day battles. That was kind of too bad, as it would've been nice to have been able to make use of the bonuses for all the Japanese battleships I had out. During that first round, things were fairly even. All four of us had pulled four battleships and two carriers. I even managed to pull the Yamato, which was kind of nice. It had some useful firepower, but my poor dice rolling generally left my targets only damaged rather than sunk.

We went around the table a few times before the first ship was sunk. And here my memory gets fuzzy. I believe Bill and I managed to take out one Allied ship, but Chris N. and David ended up getting two kills on us, ending the first engagement. The operation ended with the Allies beating the Axis.

We considered that our learning round, and then we decided to play a second operation. We shuffled everything up again, but then we switched sides. Bill and I took on the Allies, while Chris N. and David became the Axis. My pull for ships was utterly terrible. I didn't get a single cruiser -- all battleships. That meant I was in trouble when it came to the distant round of combat, but thankfully David chose a night battle at one point.

Unfortunately, while the night battle made sure my battleships weren't getting bombarded by fighter planes from the carriers during a distant combat phase, it also meant that the Japanese ships Chris N. and David had pulled were getting a +2 on their rolls. I suspected this one would end quickly. It did end quicker than the first round, and the Axis completely blew away the Allies, but luck kept Bill and I in the game a little bit longer than I'd expected.

Overall, it was a good session. I'm fairly uneducated when it comes to naval warfare, so I kept getting the order of actions mixed up, but I think I'd mostly figured it out by the end of the night. I'd gladly give Battlegroup another try, but I don't know if I'd add it to my collection (although the artwork looks really spiffy, and that could make me lean toward an eventual purchase).

Thread: Re: Battlegroup Cards and Strategy

Bk_Seal — 2005-07-12T21:03:30+00:00

Blucher,

It is strategy all the way. Combat and reinforcement involve dice, although what you have to attack with is the strategy of the game.

No Colorado or Royal Oak. The Graf Zeppelin is there though.

Cheers,

Paul Potera

Thread: A more thoughtful

Cerebus — 2005-06-26T15:59:58+00:00

Battlegroup is the latest naval card game from small-press publisher Lost Battalion Games and Craig Taylor and Jeff Billings. The game is a more tactically oriented version of the "take that!" naval card game genre, offering players a richer field of play options than most.

Components

The game comes as two ship decks and one Action Card deck, a small ziplock containing six dice and some marker sequins, and a rules pamphlet. The box is a sturdy cardboard box and lid inside a sleeve made of card stock with the game titles printed on it. Inside are the components, rules, and an insert that looks like the lid to a necklace box that seems to be there to keep things from rattling around too much. This kind of bare bones packaging is what I expect from a small publisher such as Lost Battalion, but is a departure from this company's previous practice of packing card games in videocassette boxes (which, actually, is really cool and works very well).

The cards themselves are of medium light playing card stock, somewhat more flexible than a deck of standard poker cards. The card surfaces are a high gloss finish, very slick, and the edges seem to be sealed relatively well (fraying card edges is a problem I've notes with another Lost Battalions product). The cards, while slick, are not slippery, which is a good thing for a card laying game--though we did find it easier to pick cards up if we played on a felt table surface. An interesting by-product of the printing process is that the text and art have a distinct raised texture. This doesn't interfere with play, and the finish seems to be good enough that I don't believe that it will cause undo wear and tear.

The game theme is of WWII-era post cards, which is both well executed and consistent. Ships are well drawn and recognizable, and all game-relevant information is contained on "stamps" on each ship card. Victory points are shown in a "postmark" icon, which I thought was a particularly nice touch. Another feature of note is that the action cards are all "dual use" cards; played vertically, the card has one text, while played horizontally the card has another, unrelated text.

Rules

The rules pamphlet is simply laid out, illustrated, and comprehensive. Two read-throughs of the rules and one solo play and I felt ready to tackle teaching the game to another player. However, I do feel that learning the rules would have been helped with some small, concrete examples of play. There is an example of play on the Lost Battalions website, but it was not easy to find--it's in the "Publisher's Corner" archives for 2005.

Despite the simple seeming rules, we did find ourselves consulting them several times during play, until we started forcing everyone to read all of a card's text prior to play. The cards themselves contain virtually all the information necessary to play. However, there are a couple of finer points--such as the dockyard rules--that are not included on the cards (nor can they be).

Playing

Play is split up into "operations," with the winner of two operations winning the game. An operation ends when the final action card is drawn from the deck. An operation proceeds by turns, divided into a series of "sorties" with repair and reinforcement opportunities between them.

A sortie is started by playing a sortie action card. Sorties allow air and surface combat between ships and some land-based air assets. Sorties are divided into rounds, with each player taking a turn in a round, and each round has restrictions on the kinds of action cards that can be played. A sortie ends when all sortie rounds have been played or immediately when a player or team sinks two enemy ships. Winning a sortie gets the player the sortie card victory points, which we find to be very very important when it comes time to determine the operation winner.

Play proceeds as fast as players pay attention, and is very interactive in a two-player game (we have not yet played the three- or four-player variants). Players can attempt to negate some attacks with "reaction" cards, and every combat action is resolved as one or more die rolls. Each ship's dice are printed in the stamps on the ship card, and can be one d6, d8, d10, or any combination of the three. Only the highest rolled number counts. Results are always interpreted the same way; if the defender rolls equal or higher, nothing happens; if the attacker rolls higher but less than double the defender, the target marks damage (which gives a -2 die roll modifier on all subsequent rolls); and if the attacker rolls double the defender, the defending card is eliminated. However, only one damage result per card is allowed; subsequent damage is ignored.

We found that play proceeds at a pace that feels right for a naval game--short, intense actions followed by lulls while players build hands for the next attack. These periods can bring an interesting tension to the game. It can be frustrating to be only one card away from a devastating combination, only to have your opponent pre-empt you with his own.

Final comments

My players definitely liked one distinction between Battlegroup and Naval Battles, which is another local favorite--in Naval Battles, attacks require the correct ammunition card, while in Battlegroup the dual use action cards virtually guarantee that a player always has options in nearly every round. There are very few periods when players find themselves with no plays to make, and these are typically after major sorties.

I've played a number of naval card games, and there are certain similarities common to all of them. If you've previously played a game like Modern Naval Battles, Cold War Naval Battles (indeed, nearly any card game from Dan Verssen), Naval War, or Lost Battalion's Brawling Battleships and liked them, you'll likely be pleased with this incarnation. If you like "take that!" card games, you will also likely find Battlegroup to your liking--although the game requires a bit more thought than most games of this genre.

Thread: Battlegroup Cards and Strategy

blucher — 2005-06-01T19:25:17+00:00

Is there a lot of strategy in this game? Or is it a lot more up to chance?

Is the USS Colorado BB-45, Royal Oak, and/or Graf Zepplin included in this game?

Thread: Re: When Weird Meets Innovation

Jeff Billings — 2005-05-15T09:19:24+00:00

I have never played Naval Battles so I cannot comment on it.

However http://www.lostbattalion.com/PublishersCorner/pub_corner_C_3... has a two turn replay of the game that shows off the cards and shows off the combat system. Battlegroups Rules are fully illustrated and cover every card.

Thread: Re: Great graphic design. But pricing is a little much?

Jeff Billings — 2005-05-11T00:16:39+00:00

We have 200 hundred games on our prospect list. To go the way of traditional publication we would be unable to sink the millions of dollars in cash into inventory and go out to distributors. Distributors no longer buy up the print run and do the shoe leather work of reselling. They rough up the manufacturers because they own the distribution channel and it is very narrow.

Using the Web for direct sales and 'just in time' manufacturing means we don't have to hold up a game release. The production difficulties in manufacturing games just in time have cost me personally a couple of hundred thousand dollars to solve. I am not going to walk away from the hard learned lessons.

As for pricing, it is possible for us to come to market at a lower price, however this would squeeze out our other resellers. I ran the model numbers at a lower price and factored in significant growth. We simply use more of our capacity to make the same gross profits. I would rather offer other games and grow our revenues using the infrastructure that way.

Price is relevant but it is not decisive.

Thread: Similarities to Flagship

Captain_Physics — 2005-05-04T14:26:12+00:00

I just read the description of play in the link below.

The game looks a lot like GMT's Flagship. Two lines of ships, ships in the rear can only attack with indirect weapons (fighters here, missiles in Flagship), ship reinforcements, card-based actions.

I also worry that it might suffer from some of the same problems (namely a feeling of 'sameness' to each game). Is it possible to set up historical combats, or are all the games likely to be a mishmash of American, Japanese, British, French, Italian, and German ships? The example of play was illustrative, but I find it a bit odd to read about the Littorio sinking the Warspite with the help of the Kongo and Yamato.

I'm hopeful, but I'l like to hear comments from some owners/players.

Thread: Re: Great graphic design. But pricing is a little much?

shawn_low — 2005-05-04T02:32:49+00:00

Jeff Billings wrote:
I will ask the question? How much would you pay for a good game and why the price point?

It seems to me the ticket price of a movie/popcorn/soda combination is aroungd $20 today. If you play a good game with friends four times that is equivalent of $80 for entertainment? So what price is right and why?

Hi Jeff,

Good questions you're asking.

I don't think it's about comparing the cost of the game versus other forms of entertainment.

It's the cost of the game versus the cost of OTHER games in the market.

I understand that LBG may not have the print run to compete with big boys like Mayfair, RGG, etc.

However, having said that, you should look at card games in general.
Some prices:

Dungeoneer, Lunch Money, etc (2 decks of cards NO dice) by Atlas Games: RRP$19.95

Muchkins/Frag/illuminati/etc (SJ Games): 1-2 decks of cards, dice and similar bits. ALOT of people have given SJ GAmes flak for being overpriced. Their components are similar in quantity to LBG but $5 less.
RRP$24.95

Modern Art (Mayfair): 2 decks of cards, poker chips.
RRP$24.95

Battleline/Galaxy (GMT): 1-2 decks of cards and other bits.
RRP:$20 and $25

Most card games range from $10-25 depending on card deck size and other components. As such LBG is pricing themselves $5 above the market.

As for your marketing model: I suspect that LBG is selling direct to cut out the middlemen and thus earn more $$$ per unit sold. That's fine. People like Columbia games do it too. But might it be better to get more exposure and shift more units?

I'm sure you know that most online retailers heavily discount and prices are 30-35% off the RRP I've given above?

Combat Soldiers and this game looks interesting and could sell enough if it went to retailers/distributors?

I'd love to see LBG get more exposure but with a competitive market $30 is alot of money (One can get a Days of Wonder boardgame with a few dollars more). Good work!

To note:
I bought Sergents! because of the attractive pricing!

Thread: Re:When Weird Meets Innovation

Moonicus — 2005-05-03T04:43:48+00:00

I just got "Naval Battles" a few weeks ago and enjoy it eventhough the rules aren't organized well in the booklet...

Is Battlegroups similar to it or totally different???

MD...

Thread: Re:Great graphic design. But pricing is a little much?

Jeff Billings — 2005-05-03T01:16:55+00:00

I will ask the question? How much would you pay for a good game and why the price point?

It seems to me the ticket price of a movie/popcorn/soda combination is aroungd $20 today. If you play a good game with friends four times that is equivalent of $80 for entertainment? So what price is right and why?

Thread: Re:Great graphic design. But pricing is a little much?

happycat — 2005-04-28T05:08:23+00:00

Really, all that's keeping me from investing in the game is the lack of reviews and information on the Geek. I've been to the Lost Battalion website, read through the sample game, and I have to say that while I like what I see, I really need some player opinions before I'll invest $30.00 into anything.

Thread: Great graphic design. But pricing is a little much?

shawn_low — 2005-04-28T03:47:08+00:00

Hi,

I'm really tempted by some of LBG games. I own Sergeants! but got it thanks to the attractive pricing.

I really love the look of this game but it's rather pricey at $29.95. Ouch.

I understand that LBG has smaller print runs and hence, higher costs per unit, but $30 for a two decks of cards and some dice. Ouch.

I've been tempted many times to get this game as well as Combat Soldiers, but I've always been put off by the pricing...any chance of adjusting it I wonder...

Thread: When Weird Meets Innovation

Jeff Billings — 2005-03-27T04:27:17+00:00

One day last year Craig and I were trapped in a car together for twelve hours. Since Craig was listening to a mixture of Bag Pipe Polka and Western Show Tunes, I insisted we pass the time designing a game, mostly to save my sanity. Craig had recently finished Battleships In Action and we had published Bruce Kohrn's Brawling Battleships plus the Expansion, so we were both amped up with naval ideas (call it our navel gazing period).

Craig was set on doing a World War II naval miniatures game - (secretly still on the drawing boards) - and I was looking for another game that could be played fast. In one of the rare lucid moments we have when we are designing games it suddenly hit us to put every aspect of World War II naval warfare in a card game. The question was how to do it and make it playable. We had to incorporate the idea of mission based battles, initiative, firepower, weapons interaction, asset management, operational tempo and oh yeah warships...

Craig has been working on naval warfare games since Wooden Ships and Iron Men, and of course there was FLATTOP, so he knows more than most people I know about converting ship and weapons data into combat values and game mechanics. But on this one occasion he was firmly stuck on a sandbar where the complex interactions naval warfare are concerned. I used to be a CIC guy on the Missile console in a prior life so I know what naval warfare feels like in person. As we worked on the game it didn't have the right feel. Then I asked the fateful question - "What if we go for simple magnitudes and match the complex dimensions?"

Worry a lot when Craig gets that weird look on his face. I could tell in that moment the Genie was out of the bottle. Suddenly weird met innovation and a very complex subject became simple and obvious in the design.

We set about creating the cards and game mechanics and in short order had a working prototype. Realizing that we had a truly innovative game - maybe the best game we have ever done (Craig's record is spectacular and I have my name next to some of the very best game designers in the industry) we took our time in developing the design.

Everyone who has played this game has loved it from play-tester to people we met in restaurants. We have very high hopes for Battlegroup. Let us know what you think.