Game: Pizza Box Football

Thread: PBF Co-creators at BGG.con

eriksmith — 2008-11-13T23:37:13+00:00

My brother Scott and I will be at BGG.con starting Thursday. Hope to see you there!

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
and Pizza Box Baseball
www.OTLgames.com

Thread: Re: '08 Team...

bull495 — 2008-11-12T04:40:20+00:00

Any idea on the digital release date?

Thread: A PBF playcalling primer

utahgamer — 2008-11-04T19:37:29+00:00

Offense
Let's start with 3rd down situations, as they're the easiest to analyze. To start with, the expected value of an empty die symbol (on the play sequence card) is 3.5, while the expected value of a bonus die symbol is 4.2. If we ignore the effect of the defensive call (reasonable as this is the most common outcome, and the others tend to average out anyway), we can assign expected gains to each of the outcomes on the Play Sequence Card. If you need 2 yards, the easiest way to get it is with a run, in which case you only need a roll of 9 or higher to expect it. If you need 3 yards, you can't really expect to reach it without rolling a 10 or higher, and 10 would require a short pass call. The next similar cutoff comes at 7 yards, requiring a 12 with either a short pass or long pass. Long pass gives you the extra 2 yards with this roll, so we'll go with it. To summarize, the following gives you the best chance at making the first down (assuming no defense effect).
3rd & 1-2 : Run
3rd & 3-6 : Short Pass
3rd & 7+ : Long Pass

Now, do you choose the black or white small die (i.e. Run vs. Draw, SP vs. Screen, LP vs PA)? For this, you have to consider defensive tendencies. For third and 1-2, the defense is likely to call either a run or short pass defense (or Run Blitz or Route Jump). We need to total the defense effects of these four choices under the Run and compare it to the Draw. (Positive favors offense, each unit equals 1 bar)
Run = -1 + 1 - 3 + 1 = -2
Draw = -2 + 1 - 3 + 1 = -3

For the 3rd & 3-6, defense is may choose any of the six defenses with equal likelihood. Doing the same calculation,
Short Pass = 0 - 1 + 1 + 3 - 3 + 1 = +1
Screen Pass = 0 - 2 + 2 + 0 - 3 + 3 = 0

For the 3rd & 7+, defense will likely choose either short pass or long pass defenses (or Route Jump or QB Blitz).
Long Pass = 0 - 1 + 3 - 3 = -1
Play Action = 0 - 2 + 0 - 3 = -5

Easy to remember--in all 3 cases, it's better to pick the white die play.

The black die plays find their use in 1st and 10 or 2nd and short-- Long Pass (if you think they're expecting run or short pass) or Draw (if you think they're expecting long or short pass).

So when to call a screen or a play action pass? A screen works when the defense is expecting long pass. Remember, a long pass is a good 1st and 10 call. So you do several of these in a row on 1st down, get them on their heels, then call the screen.

Play action passes work well when the defense is expecting a short yardage play. 3rd and 2 would be a great time (especially if you're in a spot where you'll go for it on 4th).

To summarize,
Run - Workhorse play, useful when you don't need a lot of yards.
Draw - Best overall play, great on 1st down or 2nd and short to keep defense guessing.
Short Pass - Good medium yardage play.
Screen - Don't overuse. Best when defense expects a long pass.
Long pass - Another great overall play for 1st down or 2nd and short.
Play action - Use when you have a down to spare and the defense expects a run (2nd and 2).

Of course, this is only to serve as a framework; if you become predictable, you won't win very often.

Now, on to the defense...

Defense
First, decide if the offense is in a short or long yardage situation. In a short yardage situation (3rd & 2), where the offense simply has to make a short distance this down, they'll likely either run or throw a short pass. In this case, we add the same bars as above, but in rows instead of columns, and only consider run, short pass, draw, and screen pass (again, positive favoring offense).
Run defense = -1+0-2+0 = -3
Run blitz = -3+3-3+0 = -3
Short pass = 1-1+1-2 = -1
Route Jump = 1-3+1-3 = -4

Short yardage --> Route Jump > Run defense > Run blitz > Short pass (giving the edge to run defense over run blitz because of the lower variability). If you think they're going to pass, play your corners tight (route jump); if you think they're going to run, play your basic run defense.

For the long yardage situation:
Short Pass = -1+0-2+0 = -3
Route Jump = -3+3-3+0 = -3
Long Pass = 1-1+2-2 = 0
QB Blitz = 1-3+3-3 = -2

Long yardage --> Short pass > Route Jump > QB Blitz > Long Pass. If you think they're throwing short, don't play your corners tight--control. If you think they're throwing long, blitz!

If you can't predict their play (1st and 10 or 2nd and short as above), you have to add across all offensive plays:
Run = -1+0+1-2+0+2 = 0
Short Pass = 1-2+0+1-2+0 = -2
Long Pass = 1+1-1+2+2-2 = +3
Run Blitz = -3+3+2-3+3 = +2
Route Jump = 1-3+3+1-3 = -1
QB Blitz = 2+1-3+3+3-3 = +3

Overall --> Short pass > Route Jump > Run > Run Blitz > Long Pass > QB Blitz.

To summarize,
Run - Good versatile defense, particularly in short yardage situations.
Run Blitz - Valuable in short yardage situations if you're POSITIVE they're going to run. You can get burned here easily.
Short Pass - Best overall defense, useful in nearly all situations.
Route Jump - Good versatile defense, particularly in short yardage situations.
Long Pass - Not very useful, even in long yardage situations. Use a QB Blitz.
QB Blitz - Don't overuse, but useful in long yardage situations.

Football fans will notice that most of these tips are fairly true-to-life. That's what makes this game so great--if you try to think like a football coach, you'll probably do pretty well.

Great game...

Any feedback?

Thread: OSBGFL #05 - Knights vs Saints

SybotCB — 2008-10-22T04:05:51+00:00

On a dreary Thursday Night, the Knights travelled south to meet up with the Saints on the turf and settle a score.

After winning the toss, the Saints took the ball from their own 28 after a decent kick return. However, the drive stalled quickly, only scoring two yards on three plays and being forced to punt it away on the first possession.

But the Knights, didn't want to capitalize on the good defense, and decent field position they would get. And the QB scrambled out of the pocket and lobbed one downfield right into the safety's hands. The return gave the Saints the ball on the Knight 38 yard line.

The Saints went to work, pushing the ball slowly forward, but stalled on the 10 yard line and had to settle for the field goal, but taking the lead (3-0).

Then the Knights came back on the next possession. Scoring a 7 play 51 yard drive ending in a game tying 39 yard field goal.

The Saints were hoping for some offense, but the pesky Knights D came up with another big 3 and out on the next possession. A High snap on the punt forced a slow kick, which was blocked by the Knights Special Teams Unit then picking the ball up and carrying it into the end zone to put a TD on the board just before the end of the 1st quarter.

The Saints offense, bewildered by the Knights D, again had to hit the field. But a big sack on third down forced another 3 and out. Max Protection afforded the Saints punter enough time to get the ball off this time though, and gave the Knights the ball back with a 10-3 lead.

The Knights had one good 15 yard run, but otherwise, weren't able to move the ball and ended up giving the ball back to the Saints after a punt.

This time, though, the Saints moved the ball, two passes totaling 42 yards of offense, and the QB started gaining confidence. But a cornerback sat on the slant route and took the ball away, giving the Knights the ball back.

The Knights then put together a 15 play 49 yard drive to put the ball in the End Zone. Coupled with the PAT, they took a 17-3 lead.

The Saints, backed into a corner took possession from their own 26. But worked down the field on 10 passing plays and 3 running plays. Including 4 completions in a row. Hitting Paydirt after a two yard fade and bringing the score to 17-10 shortly before the half.

The Knights started the second half, but the Saints Defense came out fighting, hitting the QB on a sack and causing a fumble, which the Saints Defense fell on. Giving them the ball deep in Knights Territory.

Two plays was all it took as the Saints QB hit the wide receiver for 22 yards and the tying score.

The Knights couldn't find the answers against the Saints Defense this time either, another sack and tackle for loss, had them punting the ball back to the Saints.

This time, the Saints offense hit them on the ground, scoring a 53 yard run deep into the red zone, before finally connecting with the TE in the end zone for another score and a 24-17 lead.

The Knights again hit the field, putting together a nice drive, but the Saints D was still quite relentless causing yet another sack and fumble at midfield.

The Knights D, seeing the game slipping away, put some pressure on themselves, and was able to keep the Saints out of the end zone. But they couldn't stop a 34 yard field goal, and a 27-17 deficit.

The Knights offense then did their part. After getting the ball on the 26, they put together an 8 play 74 yard drive to close the gap to 3.

The Saints Offense had all the answers though. Putting together their own 12 play 73 yard drive on the next possession to push the lead back out to 10.

With the clock, and the Saints D against them, the Knights went back on the field, pushing the ball 10 plays down to the Saints 16 yard line, but faced with a 4th and 5 couldn't convert, and turned the ball over on downs.

The Saints sensing victory within their grasp, started to run the ball, trying to melt the time off the clock. After a 20 yard gain, the ball popped out of the RB's hands and gave the Knights new life, with the ball on the Saints 42 yard line.

The Knights pushed it in quickly, and got into the end zone, with less than a minute left on the clock. After adding the PAT, they had brought the score to 34-31.

The Knights lined up for an Onside Kick. The Saints had their hands team in. But a high bounce on the Kickoff, made it a free for all for the ball.

After a large scrum, the officials pointed south, giving the Knights the ball, at the 40 yard line...

The Knights then connected immediately on a 26 yard pass. Then a six yard strike down the middle of the field on first down, followed by a quick two yard run up the middle to set up a final chance at a 43 yard field goal try to tie the game.

But not having the timeouts to set up the Kicking team proved costly, as the kick didn't hook into the uprights, ending the ball game.

[c]
Knights 10 07 00 14 - 31
Saints 03 07 17 07 - 34

Rushing
Knights 36 rushes for 142 yards, 2 touchdowns and 2 lost fumbles.
Saints 29 rushes for 192 yards, 0 touchdowns and 1 lost fumbles.

Passing
Knights 24 for 33 (72%) for 305 yards, 1 touchdown, 1 interceptions.
Saints 17 for 32 (53%) for 177 yards, 4 touchdowns, 1 interception.
[/c]

Thread: Re: '08 Team...

eriksmith — 2008-09-26T23:39:13+00:00

Hans,

We had a few made by the printer in June. Some people have them, but they're out of stock now. Then the printer stopped making them, and I've heard nothing since.

Therefore, I'm considering a digital release of the teams. Stay tuned.

All the best,

Erik

Thread: Re: OSBGFL #04 - Crusaders at Knights

SybotCB — 2008-09-24T03:51:03+00:00

Yeah, I'm not really a big fan of NFL football, I agree college OT rules are more fair. The NFL rules blow.

In any case, we modified them a bit, in that we will drop back five yards more in each extra overtime period, until there is a winner. Along with other college rules (2pt conversions mandatory after 2nd overtime, etc)

Thread: Re: OSBGFL #04 - Crusaders at Knights

inttruder — 2008-09-23T04:04:35+00:00

Sounds like it was a fun game. I like the choice to use college overtime rules, it seems more fair than the pros.

Thread: OSBGFL #04 - Crusaders at Knights

SybotCB — 2008-09-23T02:05:46+00:00

The Gridiron was once again set to life with an epic matchup between the Crusaders, and the Knights.

The visiting Crusaders (0-1) were on a mission to turn things around, but would have to go to the Hot Knights (1-0) house and take care of business. After kicking off to the Knights, and forcing a 3-and-out. The favor was unfortunately returned, and returned, and returned... In fact, the first five drives of the ballgame were 3-and-out's.

The Crusaders, receiving the ball on the sixth possession of the game would finally break the string. With good field possession and a timely play call, the Crusaders called a draw that totally caught the Knights defense off guard and scrambled 48 yards down the field, for the first first down of the game, and a 1st and goal at the one play call. Another dive up the middle soon had the scoreboard guy wake up from his nap as he added seven points to the Crusaders tally.

The Knights would not be outdone though, and came back on their next possession to mount an impressive drive of their own. Putting together a six play 48 yard drive. The Knights would line up to settle for a 47 yard field goal attempt, however, the winds were blowing strong today, and the ball flew right of the upright by several yards.

The Crusaders took possession back, and put together their own 12 play 47 yard drive, but also the drive stalled, and the Crusaders were left with their own 45 yard field goal attempt. In the end, the strong winds of the day were not partisan, and pushed the Crusaders field goal off line as well.

The Knights and Crusaders traded a couple of unfruitful possessions, including a Crusader interception, but neither team managed to cross midfield, until just before the half, the Knights, took possession on the Crusader side of the 50 after an excellent punt return. Not wanting to waste the field possession, the Knights were carried downfield by their running back, in 8 plays, including a 36 yard sweep. Evening up the score just before the half.

The third stanza started much the same as the 1st, with no team able to crack each other's defenses, however, the final drive of the third quarter saw the Knights set up in excellent field possession on the back of their punt return team. The defense held tough though, and the Knights settled for a six play 20-yard drive ending in a 41 yard field goal. Pushing the Knights ahead of the Crusaders 10-7.

The fourth quarter began as the Crusaders returned a kickoff to the 29 yard line. They proceded to pound the ball forward gaining 31 yards on four straight running plays, but a crucial 3rd-and-5 saw the Tight end drop an out route while wide open. With 4th and 5 from the Knight 40, the Crusaders coach made a critical call and decided to go for it. The Crusaders tried to sneak over the chains with a screen, but the Knights were ready for it, and the QB got rid of the ball avoiding a costly sack.

Smelling blood, the Knights got the ball, and started working it downfield mixing up their playcalls, and finding themselves 2nd-and-10 from the Crusader 14. The Crusaders received a gift however, when a bad exchange put the ball on the ground just behind the line, and a defensive end fell on it.

The Crusaders tried to get back to work, but the Knights once again forced the three and out and the Crusaders had no choice but to punt it away 4th and 9 from deep in their own territory.

The Knights, once again with great field possession, tried to put the turnover behind them and work methodically down the field. Putting together a 21 yard drive over seven plays. But stalled and were forced to attempt a long (54-yard) field goal. The Knights put a good leg into it, but it fell short of the crossbar by a few yards.

With time against them, the Crusader offense once again took to the field looking to reward their defense. This time, the Crusaders took to the skies, firing the ball downfield to the tune of 31 yards. But this was a defensive game, and the Crusaders would stall as well, they reluctantly looked to their kicker to try to even up the score, after stalling with 4th and 9 at the Knight 30. But this time, the ball flew true, and the Crusaders tied the score on the strength of the 47 yard field goal.

In the final minute, the Knights broke a long 43 yard run to the Crusader 30 yard line and gave themselves great field possession to try to break the tie. But deciding to take a shot at the end zone and milk a little clock before the field goal, proved to be a costly decision as the Crusaders picked the ball off on their 6 yard line, and kneeled on the ball to send the game into overtime.

The Knights won the toss, and chose to play defense for the first overtime session. So the Crusaders took the ball from the Knight 25.

Runs of 10, 5, and 8 yards respectively, had the knight defense confused, and gave the Crusaders 1st and Goal at the 2 yard line. A Tackle for loss gave the Knights a brief moment to celebrate, but the Crusaders Run game proved too much as they completed a 5 play 25 yard drive and had no problems with the ensuing PAT putting the lead back to 17-10.

The Knights took over then, but after two incomplete passes, found themselves staring at a 3rd and 10 from the 25. Trying to confuse the Defense, they called a draw, but only managed to squeak out a couple of yards, and bringing up 4th and 8.

Forced to go for it, the Knight QB dropped back, but good coverage, and a descent pass rush, sealed their fate as the QB took a sack to end the ball game. Crusaders 17-10.

[c]
Crusaders 07 00 00 03 07 - 17
Knights 00 07 03 00 00 - 10

Rushing:
Crusaders had 34 rushes for 160 yards and 2 touchdowns
Knights had 25 rushes for 185 yards and 1 touchdown and 1 fumble

Passing:
Crusaders were 15 of 32 (46%) for 127 yards and 1 interception.
Knights were 12 of 35 (34%) for 91 yards and 1 interception.
[/c]

Thread: '08 Team...

bull495 — 2008-09-22T03:24:00+00:00

HI Eric....the pesty Canadian again....teams still at the printer?

Hans

Thread: Re: OSBGFL #01 - League Primer

bull495 — 2008-09-22T03:20:58+00:00

ya ...ditto what Jeremiah said..

Image

Heliconia — 2008-09-13T00:19:53+00:00

Getting the 2008 season underway

Thread: OSBGFL #03 - Knights at Killer B's

SybotCB — 2008-09-09T04:02:57+00:00

OSBGFL #03 - Knights at Killer B's

For the second game, the Knights traveled south to meet up with the Killer B's on the gridiron and determine who would take control of the stacked Western Division.

The B's won the toss and elected to receive. But were unable to score on the opening possession on a short 6 play drive.

The Knights were equally ineffective in their opening as well, punting the ball from their own 22 giving the B's decent field position to march down the field on their next possession.

The B's came up short however, and settled for the 36 yard field goal and took the early lead 3-0.

After the kickoff, the Knights remained perplexed by the menacing defense of the B's and again had to punt the ball away, but a booming punt backed the B's deep in their own territory, and would be the catalyst to force the B's into a costly mistake.

Trying to make the best of the situation, the B's drove out of their own end zone near midfield. But a missed blocking assignment caused the B's QB to be hit hard for a seven yard sack, and coughing up the ball at their own 45.

The Knights didn't let the good field position go to waste, and went to work, putting together a six play drive capped off by a 13 yard run to take the lead 7-3.

The B's went back to work after a booming Kick through the end zone gave them 80 yards of field to work with. The B's made it look easy, hitting on a quick slant over the middle for 23 yards, followed by a post route down the left sideline to cover 43 more yards into the end zone and taking a 10-3 lead.

The following three drives were three 3-and-outs.

The B's received a Knight punt deep in their own territory and fair caught it at the 8 yard line. From their, they put together a 10 play 63 yard drive to put the ball deep into Knight territory, but halftime quickly approaching forced a 42 yard field goal as the final seconds ticked off before halftime, giving the B's a 13-7 lead heading into the locker room.

At the start of the second half. The defense continued to dominate on both sides of the field, forcing punts on the first four drives.

Then, the Knights gave up an interception on the first play of the drive starting from their own 37 yard line. The b's were quick to capitalize on the miscue, putting together a six play 32 yard drive for the score, and pushing the lead out to 20-7 to end the third quarter.

The B's defense continued to dominate on the next possession forcing another Knight punt, and giving the B's offense excellent field possession to start their next drive. But the B's QB dropped the snap, and gave the ball right back to the Knights at midfield.

The Knights didn't disappoint, and put together a long run and a quick 20 yard strike in the end zone to close the gap to 6 points (20-14).

The B's, next possession proved fruitless, and gave the ball back to the Knights after a 3-and-out. The Knights again went back to work, driving 50 yards down the field to the B's 21 yard line. But turnovers loomed large in this game, and it wasn't exclusive to the B's, as the Knights were picked off and the B's returned the ball 21 yards on the Interception.

The B's offense couldn't find any holes in the Knights defense again, and had to punt the ball away again.

The Knights next possession proved a little better, but still ended up stalling at the B's 23 yard line, turning the ball over on Downs after attempting a 4th and 2 conversion.

The B's then were set to begin a drive with the lead, in the waning minutes of the fourth quarter. A quick strike 48 yard strike down the sideline moved the ball deep into Knights territory, and the B's seemed poised to play a ball control game and move the game along quickly. However, on the very next play of the drive, the B's, misplayed a pitch and put the ball on the turf up for grabs... the Knights Defense picked up the ball and scampered 29 yards down the field to give the Knights excellent field possession, at the B's 41 yard line, for a final try at the end zone.

The B's defense held firm, making it a slow, methodical drive down the field, but a couple of runs here and there put the end zone in reach at the B's 14 yard line.

In the final minutes, the Knights were stopped for no gain, an incomplete pass, a 5 yard gain, then a quick 8 yard strike put the ball on the 1 yard line with only seconds to go. The Knights were calm, and hit the TE on an out pattern, to cover the distance and go up on the scoreboard 21-20 with only :10 seconds on the clock.

An uneventful kickoff ended the B's chances to open the season with a win at home.

[c]
Knights 00 07 00 14 - 21
Killer B's 03 10 07 00 - 20

Rushing
Knights 25 rushes for 121 yards, 1 touchdown
Killer B's 28 rushes for 56 yards, 2 touchdowns and 3 lost fumbles.

Passing
Knights 15 for 36 (42%) for 125 yards 2 touchdowns and 2 interceptions.
Killer B's 18 for 29 (62%) for 302 yards 1 touchdown, no interceptions, 2 sacks for 12 yards.
[/c]

Thread: Re: OSBGFL #01 - League Primer

Jeremiah_Lee — 2008-09-09T02:54:17+00:00

Wow, I wish I had enough gaming friends that would be interested in doing this. Good luck in your league.

Thread: OSBGFL #02 - Saints vs Crusaders

SybotCB — 2008-09-09T02:25:41+00:00

OSBGFL Post #02 - Game 1 Saints at Crusaders

The OSBG Opened up its inaugural season with a divisional matchup between the Saints and the Crusaders. The question remained, would the Opening game live up to the hype the league had been getting from its founders?

The Teams selected to answer this question were the Saints (Black) and the Crusaders (Red). With the clean slate, and the hopes of their owners on their teams, they took the field.

The Saints received the ball to start the half. But a 3 and out, complete with a six-yard sack by the Crusaders, quickly handled the ball to the boys in Crimson just shy of the Midfield line.

The Crusaders then managed to mount an impressive 11 play drive to put them on the Saints 4 yard line. But an untimely fumble would cost them the score, as they handed the ball back the to the Saints, and ended the impressive drive with nothing to show for it.

The Saints capitalized on the Turnover, by marching 96 yards down the field on 10 plays to take a 7-0 lead.

Not giving up Hope, the Crusaders, took control back, wanting to forget the last possession. But the Crusaders QB wouldn't make things easy throwing an errant ball over the middle at the opponents 40 yard line.

The Saints quickly returned the favor with another INT just before the quarter ended, giving them excellent field position. But the defense held firm, and only yielded an easy field goal to the Crusaders, to maintain the lead 7-3.

The ensuing drive by the saints resulted in a very nice 8 play 70 yard drive capped off by a seven yard run into the end zone, to give them a comfortable 14-3 lead.

A couple of stalled drives by both teams, resulted in punts and poor field position, and the Crusaders more experienced coach began to get a bit nervous. Just over midfield, with a 4 and 1 at the Saints 44 yard line, the Crusaders, decided to gamble and get the first down, but a massive push by the front 4 stopped them in their tracks, and they gave up the ball on downs.

Working to capitalize, the saints drove the ball to the 31, but the field goal flew wide right, keeping the score 14-3.

With only a few seconds on the clock before half, and down 14-3 the Crusaders, ran a playaction, but the Saints DB's were not fooled, and picked the ball off running it back all the way as the remaining seconds ticked off the clock. The Saints went into halftime with a comfortable 21-3 lead.

Perhaps fired up from the first half mistakes, the Crusaders came out in the second half fighting, starting it off with an impressive 8 play 65 yard drive to bring the score to 21-10.

But the saints answered back with their own 80 yard drive taking the wind out of the sails of the Crusaders. The score was now 28-10, and unseemingly, the Crusaders were beginning to unravel.

An ill-advised drive, cut short by an unrelenting Saints Defense, and the Crusaders, again turned the ball over on downs at trying a 4th and 2 conversion at their own 33 yard line, giving the Saints excellent field position to march down the field and punch it into the end zone again, bringing the score to 35-10.

The Crusaders next drive was a little better, marching to mid-field, but another turnover on downs gave the Saints the ball again at the 50 and was soon followed by a long QB pass into the end zone to bring the score up to 42-10.

The Crusaders seeing the game slipping before their eyes, then began getting back to fundamental football, putting together a 13 play 68 yard drive cutting the lead to 42-17.

A Saints field goal on the ensuing drive sent the lead higher again 45-17.

Crusaders, determined to make the best of a bad situation, began to get back to basics putting the ball in the end zone two times to make it respectable but still shy. The final score ended up being Saints 45 - Crusaders 31.

[c]Saints 07 14 21 03 - 45
Crusaders 00 03 07 21 - 31

Rushing:
Saints had 32 rushes for 143 yards and 1 touchdown
Crusaders had 34 rushes for 174 yards and 2 touchdowns and 1 fumble

Passing:
Saints were 23 of 29 (79%) for 227 yards and 4 touchdowns, 1 interception and 2 sacks for 9 yards.
Crusaders were 26 of 44 (59%) for 288 yards and 2 touchdowns, 2 interceptions and 2 sacks for 7 yards.
[/c]

The Crusaders coach was unavailable for comment, but GW of the Saints praised his teams efforts in the inaugural game of the OSBGFL.

Thread: Re: OSBGFL #01 - League Primer

inttruder — 2008-09-09T00:00:31+00:00

Sounds like fun. I look forward to hearing some updates on your games.

Thread: Re: OSBGFL #01 - League Primer

SybotCB — 2008-09-08T22:48:26+00:00

I will keep this post updated with current standings for year 1 of our league.

Thread: OSBGFL #01 - League Primer

SybotCB — 2008-09-08T22:04:19+00:00

A new Football League to rival the NFL has finally been created...

So, we decided to start a Pizza box football league in my Game group. With football season starting in our little town, we are pleased and excited to get some football gaming back to the table.

Now, Pizza box football, has a lot of luck in it. But there is a little strategy, and you can influence the game a lot by and nudge the numbers in your favor with good defensive and offensive tactics. That being said, the game is still a bunch of fun, so we decided to try a league.

We are using the expansion plays, but we are using the base chart for determining offensive play results. This gives everyone equal teams.

Our league consists of six teams, and we are dividing up into two divisions. The divisions were determined at Random.

The league will consist of 1 round of Round Robin play. After which, the top two teams in each division will make the playoffs. (Tiebreaker is Head to Head Record between 2 teams, Division Record between 3 or more teams, followed by PF and then PA). The 4 team playoff will consist of the East 1 team playing the West 2 team and vice versa, so regardless of which division you are in, you are assured a chance of making it to the final game.

Overtime rules are similar to college in that each team starts at the 25 and has an opportunity to score. Each additional overtime will be from 5 yards farther back, until a winner is determined.

We are keeping stats for all games.

The league divisions are assigned as follows

East---
Saints (Black)
Crusaders (Red)
Centaurs (Purple)

West---
Killer B's (Orange)
Knights (White)
Special Balls (Blue)

There are 15 Pool Games that must be played. We are not worried about the order these happen in, and will only worry about users scheduling concerns. The games to be played are as follows:

Saints at Crusaders (Result: Saints 41-35)
Knights at Killer B's (Result: Knights 21-20)
Crusaders at Knights (Result: Crusaders 17-10)
Special Balls at Centaurs
Knights at Saints (Result: Saints 34-31)
Killer B's at Special Balls
Centaurs at Crusaders
Special Balls at Saints
Centaurs at Killer B's
Crusaders at Special Balls
Saints at Killer B's
Centaurs at Knights
Saints at Centaurs
Special Balls at Knights
Killer B's at Crusaders

Thread: Re: When is the OTLGames website going to be updated for ordering?

bull495 — 2008-08-15T02:13:30+00:00

Hi mike - i think this game is great!....(Have you tried strat-o-matic hockey....i could email you easy to understand instructions for strat hockey if you find it too confusing!

PBF Football has the right mix of strategy and fast exciting game play with realistic results

Hans

Thread: Re: When is the OTLGames website going to be updated for ordering?

mitte_70 — 2008-08-13T11:09:31+00:00

Hi,
I´ve recently become very curious about this sport. Since I don´t know much about it (basics is known), Is this a game I could pick up and have a good time with? I´m that close to hit the order button but need to be sure first. I´m a huge hockey fan but there aren´t any good games out there so I´m trying to get into AM Football instead.

Thread: Re: When is the OTLGames website going to be updated for ordering?

bull495 — 2008-08-12T19:11:27+00:00

Thanks Eric - Looking forward to them - All the preseason football is makin me itchy.

Thread: Re: When is the OTLGames website going to be updated for ordering?

eriksmith — 2008-08-12T04:27:22+00:00

Hans,

Thanks for writing. The teams are done. I'll check with my printer again this week and post a date.

I'll also work on getting the free special teams PDFs posted (and ordering links updated).

We did have teams available at the Game Publisher's Association booth at Origins. I believe they'll have them at GenCon as well.

Best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
and Pizza Box Baseball
www.OTLgames.com

Thread: When is the OTLGames website going to be updated for ordering?

bull495 — 2008-08-11T22:02:28+00:00

Hi Eric

Just checking on the date for ordering the 2008 teams and new kick return down loads?

Hans

Thread: Re: 2008 Teams?

Gamethyme — 2008-07-15T23:58:07+00:00

Will you be at GenCon this year?

Thread: Re: While we all wait on a computer version of PBF...

pootscoot — 2008-07-15T23:11:32+00:00

Yeah I own the full version of Football Mogul. I don't like the game, but hey, it's worth $1-$3.

Have you ever played Front Page Sports: Football Pro? It's an old game that is free now. It's considered by lots to be the holy grail of PC football games.

You can download it here: http://www.fbpro-online.com/downloads.htm

I recommend the '98 version, '99 is buggy. Some people have problems playing the game on Win XP, but mine works fine. It's worth a shot.

There's an online league out there somewhere, so if it works on your PC and your family's PCs it might be just the game you're looking for. I've never played in a FB Pro online league so I'm not sure how it works, but I do know there is an active one out there. I think you can play the games head-to-head.

You can play it like a Madden game or you can just call plays. You can also design plays. The play designer is awesome (it can take some getting used to, though) and was my favorite part of the game. Multiplayer is probably a blast with custom plays.

I've never heard of Armchair Quarterback.

Thread: Re: While we all wait on a computer version of PBF...

Acoriano3 — 2008-07-15T14:10:07+00:00

I really appreciate a guru coming in and fixing all my mistakes here. My comments were based on first impressions and reviews, but pootscoot's perspective on these is much more valuable. Thanks a lot!

pootscoot wrote:
Front Office Football 07 (Pro version) is a good game. The interface is ugly, but the engine is good and generates realistic stats. You can call plays.
Thanks for the correction, pootscoot. My "no play selection" comment came from The College Years demo I tried a few years back (I should have known better than to cite a source so outdated!) and the FOF 04 version review I read. I'm glad they've added that feature.

pootscoot wrote:
Bowl Bound College Football is great. Good interface (lots of clicking needed at times, like when recruiting) and engine. There's some really good online leagues with a lot of active owners. For college football I recommend Bowl Bound.
Thanks for the recommendation! I've always been wanting a game that delivered a fun NCAA experience, but that demo of College Years just didn't do it for me.

pootscoot wrote:
Football Mogul is in pretty bad shape. It's really buggy, just take a look at the sportsmogul forums. I can't recommend this one.
hmmm...that's too bad. My experience with the demo has been a lot of fun for me, but I haven't visited the forums. Besides, demo and full version aren't identical so I'm not in a very good position to judge the full version accurately. Do you own this one or did the forums discourage you from purchasing it? I do like the interface a lot, much nicer than FOF back when I tried it. Also, for only $1 on ebay it's got to provide a few seasons of fun, right? I'm considering getting a copy each for my dad and brother so we can compete against each other...so $3 (maybe $10-$12 total with combined shipping) is way cheaper than the $90 we'd all 3 pay to download Bowl Bound...see my dilemma?

One more random question--my taste for Sports Management games comes from my days as a boy. We had an NFL football sim (well, maybe more of a "sideline sim" as you could only call plays, but that was still a BIG deal back then!) on our IBM...maybe '89 or '90. My dad showed me how to use the interface and I even beat him on occasion . It was called Armchair Quarterback...ever heard of it?

Thread: Re: While we all wait on a computer version of PBF...

pootscoot — 2008-07-15T07:40:30+00:00

I play these sort of games a lot. My opinion...

Front Office Football 07 (Pro version) is a good game. The interface is ugly, but the engine is good and generates realistic stats. You can call plays.

I have a hard time getting over the ugly interface though. I'm not expecting great graphics, this is a "text sim" after all. But I don't want to play a spreadsheet either. Looking over my roster, and setting the depth charts was always a pain.

Still, it is a good game and gets good reviews. Mutli-player leagues are fun.

Front Office Football: The College Years has the same spreadsheet feel. It's not a bad game, but...

Bowl Bound College Football is great. Good interface (lots of clicking needed at times, like when recruiting) and engine. There's some really good online leagues with a lot of active owners.

Football Mogul is in pretty bad shape. It's really buggy, just take a look at the sportsmogul forums. I can't recommend this one.

Wolverine Studios and Grey Dog Software (makers of Bowl Bound) are both working on football games. I think they were teamed up when they made Total Pro Football, not to sure on that though.

These two games are the ones to look out for. Wolverine Studios has good pro and college basketball games out, with excellent interfaces. They're planning on including a play creator, like from the old Front Page Sports: Football Pro series (great series).

For pro football, I recommend waiting for Wolverine Studios or Grey Dog to release their games. There's been no announced date for either though, so if you can't wait go with Front Office Football 07. For college football I recommend Bowl Bound.

Thread: Re: 2008 Teams?

bull495 — 2008-07-13T02:59:36+00:00

thanks Eric!

Thread: Re: 2008 Teams?

eriksmith — 2008-07-12T15:17:34+00:00

Hans,

Thanks for writing. The teams are done. Our printer is again having some technical issues getting them out.

Some copies of the 2008 Expansion Game Booster were available at the Origins Game Fair in Columbus. I will be working with the printer next week so that I can have more available soon.

The 2008 Expansion Game Booster also has new free downloads for the return game on our web site.

We'll work on updating the web site to make ordering easier, but folks can also drop me an e-mail at contact@pizzaboxfootball.com.

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
and Pizza Box Baseball
www.OTLgames.com

Thread: 2008 Teams?

bull495 — 2008-07-12T03:30:15+00:00

Eric - when do the 2008 teams become available on the OTLGames web site?

Thread: Re: While we all wait on a computer version of PBF...

crparis — 2008-07-11T04:51:05+00:00

The makers of the 4SS Football Board game have a computer version that is a great translation of the tabletop game. I recommend it because of it's transparency (i.e. no hidden information) so you see how all the results are derived. It's still got some luck but you get to see how the die rolls create the outcomes of each play and how your decisions played into influencing the particular outcome.

The interface isn't professional (crisp and/or compelling) but it's definitely a gamer's game of football as far as gameplay goes.

http://www.4thstreetsoftware.com/

Thread: While we all wait on a computer version of PBF...

Acoriano3 — 2008-07-11T00:47:56+00:00

I don't know if anyone remembers this, but--
eriksmith wrote:
I'm open to a PBF Vassal module (I'd get to play more often). We also have some other things in the works for online play. I think both efforts can co-exist.Source = http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/245476 (Erik's comment, obviously)

While we all patiently wait for the Smith brothers to deliver yet another tool to expand and enhance our enjoyment of PBF, I've stumbled across 4 software programs that look promising and somewhat catch the essence of running/managing a team and focusing on strategy (board game approach, probabilities, etc.) as opposed to reflexes (video games, button mashing, thumb dexterity, etc.). Here's what I've found:

Football Mogul 2007 (http://www.sportsmogul.com/games/football2k8.html)
I've personally tried the demo to this one and I enjoy it quite a bit. Sure, there aren't different playbooks so playcalling is a bit limited, but the interface is great, the management aspects aren't TOO complicated, and the play-by-play keeps you on the edge of your seat when you run a play action on 4th & 2 with only a minute left! I've enjoyed it so much I'm contemplating purchasing the full version, which is being sold for quite cheap on ebay these days.

Front Office Football (http://www.solecismic.com/index.php)
There are 2 different versions, an NFL one and a College one. I tried the College demo once and liked it...I'm just not sure I want to spend $20 on it. It focuses more on the management aspect and doesn't allow you to make play calls, which is a must for me. Read the NFL version review here: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sports/frontofficefootball2004/in...;title;1
Read the College version review here: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sports/frontofficefootballtcy/rev...;review

Total Pro Football (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sports/totalprofootball/index.htm...)
Apparently this one allows you to both manage the team from the office AND the sideline. The interface is supposed to be pretty good, despite the fact that this was released back in '04. I don't know if it's available for purchase anymore, but it appears that there's a free download at http://www.mofunzone.com/download_games/total_pro_football_2...
Read the review here: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sports/totalprofootball/review.ht...;review

Bowl Bound (http://www.greydogsoftware.com/bb/)
This looks interesting--a College version from the creator of Total Pro Football 2004. I couldn't find a review of this one, but the screen shots looks good and it's still supported by the company.

Thread: Re: What is your take on a PBF Vassal module?

Acoriano3 — 2008-07-10T23:07:32+00:00

Sorry, Rob. Nothing ever came of it. None of us know anything about programming and it sounds like Erik and Scott already have something cooking in the oven. I wish they'd shed a bit more light on it though...

Thread: QB Sneak Play

Acoriano3 — 2008-07-02T15:59:36+00:00

So I've been entertaining the thought of having a special play geared towards short yardage situations...well, more like "1-yard situations"...that would reflect a quarterback sneak. Here's what I've come up with so far:

1) It must offer the Offense more enticing odds than a regular RUN to make it a viable play call, but can't be so strong that the Defense assumes that on 3rd/4th and 1 the Offense will automatically use it. In short yardage situations it's a pretty safe bet to go with some form of a RUN play as the odds of getting at least a 9 (bare minimum black dice result to still gain one yard) are slightly better than completing a SHORT PASS (minimum total of 10) or a LONG PASS (minimum total of 12)

2) Because it is a play designed to only get a yard (maybe 2), the offensive rewards of a high roll won't be too significant. At the same time, the risks are reduced, making a low roll less devastating. Fumbles can still happen, just like ordinary run plays, but typical results are: the QB gains 1-2 yards (3 if he's untouched and lays out flat, extending the football--extremely rare), the defense floods the middle for no gain, the QB is caught looking for a hole to squeeze through and is dropped for a loss (usually 1, occasionally 2 yards). The charts would thus reflect results that only cover the span of 5 yards.

3) It should increase probabilities for a positive gain by allowing for a reroll A result of 9 is already reasonable as far as the odds go so, instead of lowering the total number needed for a gain of +1, we could use a similar mechanic to the Long Bomb Pass. It's quite ingenious really, the whole "up for grabs" concept. If you analyze the yardage results for the Bomb as opposed to the good ol' LP, there almost identical. The real purpose behind it is to increase the odds of a completion--the rewards are HUGE, but at an equally dangerous risk of an interception or sack, which are both devastating with little time remaining. Thus I propose a similar use of that mechanic---full credit given to Erik and Scott Smith for the original implementation in the Long Bomb Pass Play---with a sort of "in the pile" result that allows for the lowest black dice to be rerolled. With the LBP Play, any rerolled "up for grabs" resulted in an incomplete pass--same thing here. Any rerolled "in the pile" show a stop in forward progress, thus downing the ball for NO GAIN.

Here were the results of my own tests. I made 2 different charts based on the whole "in the pile" concept and put them alongside the RUN result chart from the PBF base game. Prototype A had the following results:
Prototype A
3 Fumbled Snap
4 Fumble
5 Lose 2
6-7 Lose 1
8-11 In the pile
12-15 Gain 1
16-17 Gain 2
18 Gain 3

Prototype B looked like this:
Prototype B
3 Fumbled Snap
4 Fumble
5 Lose 2
6 Lose 1
7-10 In the pile
11-13 Gain 1
14-17 Gain 2
18 Gain 3

I rolled the dice 10 times and here are the results presented with total of black dice , Chart A, Chart B, then original RUN Chart:
1) 5, Lose 2, Lose 2, Lose 1White
2) 12, Gain 1, Gain 1, Gain 1+1White
3) 14, Gain 1, Gain 1, Gain BB
4) 8, ITP* (NG), ITP* (NG), No Gain
5) 9, ITP* (NG), ITP* (G1), Gain 1/2/3
6) 12, Gain 1, Gain 1, Gain 1+1White
7) 9, ITP* (NG), ITP* (NG), Gain 1/2/3
8) 8, ITP* (G1), ITP* (G1), No Gain
9) 11, ITP* (NG), Gain 1, Gain 1White
10) 7, Lose 1, Gain 1, Lose 0/1
*ITP = In the pile. The parentheses after show what happened when rerolled.

Based on the assumption that it was a "1-yard to go" situation, here are how the charts performed:
Chart A = 4 1st downs
Chart B = 7 1st downs
Original RUN Chart = 6 1st downs

After that it seems like it didn't make much of a difference. Some of those RUN results were pretty good gains of maybe 3-5 yards, but of course the whole point is to get the necessary yard to move the chains.

Feedback and comments are welcome as always!!!

Thread: Re: 2008 Expansion Game Booster Available at Origins

eriksmith — 2008-05-29T21:19:28+00:00

Eric,

Not sure if we'll make Indianapolis this year, but I plan to attend BGG.con.

All the best,

Erik

Thread: Re: New for 2008 Expansion: Special Teams Free Download!

johnweldy — 2008-05-29T21:10:37+00:00

Ah yes...the Devin Hester rules. Finally my Bears get what they needed from PBF!

Thread: Re: 2008 Expansion Game Booster Available at Origins

Gamethyme — 2008-05-29T21:07:14+00:00

Will you be at GenCon this year?

Thread: New for 2008 Expansion: Special Teams Free Download!

eriksmith — 2008-05-29T20:56:49+00:00

As a companion to our 2008 Expansion Game Booster we've rated all 32 teams for their Return Game strengths and weaknesses. We'll post these ratings in our Free Downloads area at www.PizzaBoxFootball.com once we get the games from the printer. She tells us that we'll have games in time for Origins (June 26-29).

Modifiers are available in the following categories:

- Kickoff Fumbles
- Kickoff Return Yardage
- Kickoff Breakaway Factor

- Punt Return Fumbles
- Punt Return Yardage
- Punt Return Breakaway Factor

We hope you'll enjoy the additions!

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
and Pizza Box Baseball
www.OTLgames.com

Thread: 2008 Expansion Game Booster Available at Origins

eriksmith — 2008-05-29T20:42:12+00:00

I'm told by my printer that she'll be bringing the 2008 Expansion Game Booster teams to Columbus with her for the Origins Game Fair (June 26-39).

I'll personally be in booth #226 (Game Publisher's Association) on Friday. My brother (and co-designer) Scott will be in town, and we'll probably split time between the booth and the fabulous CABS Board Room on Saturday.

Please come by and say hi!

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Baseball
and Pizza Box Football
www.OTLgames.com

Thread: First game, solo, expansion plays, no teams.

referee — 2008-05-10T16:02:36+00:00

Well, I finally got this game after a long search. I played a game using the solitary coach rules, at the full game level with the expansion plays, but not specific teams. It was a cool game.

The game started slow, with both teams trading punts for all the first quarter. The home team (the one I was actively using) started a drive with slightly less than six minutes left in the first quarter which went into the second quarter and ended in a 35 yards field goal to open the scoreboard. The visiting team next drive moved the ball a bit, including a 10 yards scramble, and they downed a short punt in the 10 yards line, and then forced a three and out. In their next drive, despite good field position, the things didn't work as well, but the visiting team kicked a 56 yarder to tie the score.

But the home team was about to start their show. They got the next drive working, and culminated it with a 28 yards run for the first touchdown of the game, with just 40 seconds left in the half (an 18 with the black dice). The visitors couldn't cross the field in the short time remaining and the teams went to halftime with a home lead, 10-3.

On the second half the show was about to continue. Visiting team received the kickoff but only to manage a three and out, helped by a sixteen yards sack. The quarterback fumbled the ball, but managed to keep it for them. Next came a good fifteen yards pass, but insufficient. And home team got the ball and proceeded to run the ball, and eat eight minutes and a half, to end with a one yard run touchdown. 17-3.

The opponents tried to move the ball a bit, but decided to go for it in 4th and 2 as the first play of the fourth quarter, and were stopped. (I wasn't using the strategic decisions but as a consulting tool when I was doubting. Down 14 points with 15 minutes remaining, I figured the sensible thing was trying for it, rather than trying a 62 yarder). Home team, with a good position for the first time in the game, did another long drive, but had to settle for a 21 yards field goal in 4th and Goal. 20-3 and less than seven minutes remaining. It all seemed said and done.

But the visiting team wouldn't just sit down and die. They took a hurry-up drive to the home team's 28, where they were forced to kick a field goal. It was good and it was again a 14 points game. The subsequent onside kick didn't work, but defense forced a three and out, and got the ball in their own 20, with 1:40 left. Five plays later, and just with 20 seconds left, they were in the home team's end zone with a 29 yards touchdown pass. 20-13.

20 seconds left and no timeouts remaining meant they would only get one play to cross the 60 yards they needed, but first they had to recover an onside kick. Sadly for them, the roll came up a 9, and the home team got the ball. They just took a knee and the game ended.

Some stats show how different the teams' play styles were. Home team 43 carries for 213 yards, and 11/20 for 82 yards passing (a 65.0 rating). The visiting team was more balanced in play calling, 23 carries for 82 yards and 16/26 for 162 yards, and the only passing touchdown of the game (a 92.1 rating). The home team won 19 first downs, of which 14 were achieved rushing (including the two touchdowns), and the visiting team got 14, of which 10 were made passing (again including the touchdown).

Thread: Re: PBF vs Tudor Football Strategy

Comrade_Sarayev — 2008-05-09T17:11:12+00:00

I have them both, and fortunate enough to have the Tudor game in the neat little briefcase. I NFL Football Strategy over Pizza box. the latter is not without merit, but is quite 'lite' on strategic options in comparison. I would certainly play either if an opponent had a preference.

Thread: Re: Yet another long bomb question..

referee — 2008-05-07T00:57:57+00:00

Now that you mention 'Up for Grabs', is it really up for grabs?

It seems to me, the worst you can get is 4-4-4 rerolled to 4-4-1, which is a sack (something that doesn't make much sense really), and next worst (and most common) is an incomplete. Am I missing something?

Thread: Re: It Left A Bad Taste In My Mouth

Acoriano3 — 2008-05-06T13:25:00+00:00

kenntak wrote:
When virtually all of the printed PBF games come with the additional plays, I find that a review that ignores them fails to present a complete and fair picture. To be fair, you should have reviewed the game with the expansion.
There something that needs to be clarified here, though, which can often be confusing to players new to the game. There are:
a) Expansion Plays Card + Example Team Card of Pittsburgh (which Erik mentioned that the vast majority of the games contain)
b) The yearly Expansion that OTLGC releases based on the individual team's strengths and weaknesses.

In all fairness to da Pyrate, he was playing for the first time. I wouldn't recommend anything BUT starting out on the most basic level to understand how everything works. Now he can try the Expansion Plays that were included with his game to up the strategy...but I completely agree, there is no need to include the EXPANSION to any game when reviewing or reporting a session as it should be able to stand on its own......and I happy to say that, IMO, PBF does!!!

Thread: Re: It Left A Bad Taste In My Mouth

feldmafx — 2008-05-06T12:22:29+00:00

I am one who rated the game a "9". And that is based on the basic game. I love it for two reasons:

1) My 10yo and I can play it and its fairly even due to the dice.

2) I am an Irish fan. The term "Luck of the Irish" didn't come about because the game is predictable. The dice rolls allow for the safety that slipped, the lineman who blocked the wrong way, or any other random event.

If the randomness were eliminated, then statistical analysis done by the OP would result in one line of play, which would where thin quickly. There is something to watching the gleam in my son's eyes when he gets to roll two more bonus dice after already getting the first down in my territory.

And remember, 4 out of 5 mathmaticians don't believe in statistics...

Thread: Re: It Left A Bad Taste In My Mouth

kenntak — 2008-05-06T11:58:52+00:00

da pyrate wrote:
kenntak wrote:
I agree with many of your points and do not really like this game. However, to be fair, you should have reviewed the game with the expansion. After you do that, you might reach the same conclusion as me, or you might like the game a little better.

With respect, I think your point is quite unreasonable. PBF has a listing in BGG. The expansions also have a listing on BGG. Surely reviewing the basic game and placing it here is quite fair. If I were to review the expansions surely it would then be appropriate to place that review in the listing for the appropriate expansion?

The base game deserves to be judged on its own merits, IMHO, and if it falls short without the support of an expansion then it is only fair to point this out.

By what criteria do you find the review to be unfair?

When virtually all of the printed PBF games come with the additional plays, I find that a review that ignores them fails to present a complete and fair picture. To me, that is little different than reviewing the Heroscape basic game rules and not the advanced game rules. Most people play the latter and find the basic rules to be subpar. I understand that the base PBF has its own BGG entry and can be considered separately, I just think that any thorough review of the game should not ignore the additional plays.

Thread: Re: It Left A Bad Taste In My Mouth

da pyrate — 2008-05-06T01:36:22+00:00

eriksmith wrote:

I don't know whether you'd prefer playing with teams that have strengths and weaknesses, but you might given that you seem to have an analytical mind. Check out the free Super Bowl teams from our web site, if you're looking for more.

Best regards to all,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
and Pizza Box Baseball
www.OTLgames.com

Hi Erik,

I would just like everyone to know that I have the highest regard for you as a person and the physical quality of the games that you produce.

I am, very much, looking forward to trying out the game with the expansion rules - the unanimous opinion seems to be that they add a lot to the game.

I wish you all the best with PBF and other games you publish.

Aaaarrrhh!

Thread: Re: It Left A Bad Taste In My Mouth

eriksmith — 2008-05-06T01:05:57+00:00

da pyrate wrote:
The base game deserves to be judged on its own merits, IMHO, and if it falls short without the support of an expansion then it is only fair to point this out.

Over 95% of the games we printed came with the expansion play calls included along with the base game. If you didn't play with the expansion play calls, you probably missed out a bit. You can still get these plays from our web site as a free download at www.PizzaBoxFootball.com.

da pyrate wrote:
By what criteria do you find the review to be unfair?

IMHO, fairness in a review ought only to be kept in mind to your reader, who is likely reading to see whether your opinions will give them insight into whether they would like the game.

So, if you only used 3 plays (which I think you've clarified), people can perhaps understand the basis for your impressions on the game.

For what it's worth, we tried to include variants in the game so that we could reach a broad array of players (from casual fans on up). When someone likes our game, it's probably because they found a level that worked for them.

I don't know whether you'd prefer playing with teams that have strengths and weaknesses, but you might given that you seem to have an analytical mind. Check out the free Super Bowl teams from our web site, if you're looking for more.

Best regards to all,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
and Pizza Box Baseball
www.OTLgames.com

Thread: Re: It Left A Bad Taste In My Mouth

da pyrate — 2008-05-06T00:55:00+00:00

Eldard wrote:

You didn't tell me what color car you were driving.

It was my girlfriend's car and it is green. I am not sure how much mileage is on the clock.

Eldard wrote:
So you decided you didn't like the game, and didn't finish it. OK. Why didn't you just say so?

It has been interesting communicating with you but, by golly, you are one hard dude to please.

Thread: Re: It Left A Bad Taste In My Mouth

Eldard — 2008-05-06T00:31:56+00:00

Eldard wrote:
Help me out here Bill, what is a realistic result? I have seen many gridiron games finish at something like 21-20. However, in 1940 the Bears beat the Redskins 73-0 and in 1966 the Redskins beat the Giants 72-41. In sports you can have widely varied results and the team expected to lose always has a chance to win, and sometimes does. I think that the element of a sports game is that widely varied results are possible. I also think that boardgames should also be strategy games where player input has some bearing on the outcome.

Based on the probability of dice rolls, differences of 30 or even 70 points are possible. If you had a rare high scoring game or low scoring game, you may have hit the tips of the bell curve. Most of our games have been between 1-point and 21-point scoring differences.

da pyrate wrote:
I think I should have a look at the expanded game.

I think the expansion adds a lot more to the game, because there are 'safe' defenses and high risk defenses. For instance, calling a QB Blitz when the offense is throwing a screen pass can be very costly. In the end, though, it's still about dice.

da pyrate wrote:
To satisfy your curiosity, I live about 5 hours drive from Mr Promuso. He and I have been friends and opponents for nearly 30 years. Once every couple of months I go down to visit him and we try to satsify our passion for games. On the day in question we had just finished a game of Shifting Sands. We had started the night before and finished it on Friday afternoon. Mr Promuso is a professional musician and had a gig to go to. We had an hour to fill and I suggested PBF. We played for around 35 minutes and during the 35 minutes found that in the first instance picking the correct defense didn't seem to have much of a negative impact on the offense - this felt wrong to us. I made the first drive and scored a TD - from memory I used a combination of running plays and short-pass plays. Upon scoring a TD we had a short discussion and found that our views were similar - we found the game boring and our decisions on play pointless. To be fair to Mr Promuso I kicked the ball to him and he started his drive. He used a combination of running plays and long-pass plays. No matter what defense I used it didn't seem to make much difference to the offense. As the ball approached the end zone he continued to go for long-pass options. On his final play he rolled high and then rolled 5 bonus dice to see how far he was going to move the ball. He rolled 5 '1's - we burst into laughter, decided that we would prefer to have a cup of coffee rather than continue the game.

You didn't tell me what color car you were driving.

So you decided you didn't like the game, and didn't finish it. OK. Why didn't you just say so?

da pyrate wrote:
Is 7-0 a realist score for the first half of a game? Absolutely!

Agreed. And as far as rare dice rolls go, I think all of us can attest to them in PBF and other sports games. In APBA baseball back in the late '60s, a notoriously no-power Washington firstbaseman named Dick Nen pinch-hit twice for me -- the only two at bats he ever had for me. He homered both times -- to do so, I had to roll "66" (sixes on two dice) twice each time. Eight dice, all sixes. Like your five 1's, I laughed it off.

Thread: Re: It Left A Bad Taste In My Mouth

da pyrate — 2008-05-05T22:30:10+00:00

kenntak wrote:
I agree with many of your points and do not really like this game. However, to be fair, you should have reviewed the game with the expansion. After you do that, you might reach the same conclusion as me, or you might like the game a little better.

With respect, I think your point is quite unreasonable. PBF has a listing in BGG. The expansions also have a listing on BGG. Surely reviewing the basic game and placing it here is quite fair. If I were to review the expansions surely it would then be appropriate to place that review in the listing for the appropriate expansion?

The base game deserves to be judged on its own merits, IMHO, and if it falls short without the support of an expansion then it is only fair to point this out.

By what criteria do you find the review to be unfair?

Thread: Re: It Left A Bad Taste In My Mouth

kenntak — 2008-05-05T21:10:44+00:00

I agree with many of your points and do not really like this game. However, to be fair, you should have reviewed the game with the expansion. After you do that, you might reach the same conclusion as me, or you might like the game a little better.

Thread: Re: It Left A Bad Taste In My Mouth

da pyrate — 2008-05-05T21:09:57+00:00

Venton wrote:
da pyrate wrote:
I know that you are all allowed your own opinions BUT, I want you to know WHY you are WRONG!
Damn. I thought i liked this game.

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DrChek — 2007-04-07T02:37:57+00:00

Box Front

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loquitur — 2007-02-09T15:04:06+00:00

Starting up a solitaire game of Backyard Brawl (with one incorrectly placed blue pin)

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loquitur — 2007-02-09T15:03:31+00:00

Back of the box

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Songlian — 2006-11-15T05:36:07+00:00

BGG.CON 2006 Day 1

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Chad Jensen — 2006-10-25T19:51:21+00:00

Paul Van Etten and Chad Jensen at GMT West Weekend

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ronster0 — 2005-12-30T20:37:42+00:00

Offensive Dice

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ronster0 — 2005-12-30T20:37:42+00:00

Dice are Nice

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MUGal — 2005-08-24T12:33:51+00:00

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MUGal — 2005-08-24T12:33:51+00:00