Game: Big Kini

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Firepigeon — 2008-10-30T18:34:53+00:00

Demo at Essen Spiel 2008

Thread: Voting Question

punkzter — 2008-08-07T00:46:02+00:00

When you use a face down good in an election and then turn it face up, can you use that face up good in a later election?

And, can you use a face up good to score points at the end of the game?

Thanks

Thread: Re: Big Kini Takes A Toll

Tarl Cabot — 2008-02-05T07:11:11+00:00

Thumbs up for a headline that made me chuckle.

Thread: Re: Two Questions (Proliferation and Movement)

zefquaavius — 2008-01-22T18:41:13+00:00

Although you got the official word, I've always played the same way you have. Sorry for not seeing you question!

Thread: Re: Two Questions (Proliferation and Movement)

punkzter — 2008-01-08T17:59:26+00:00

I attached a third question to an "official" e-mail to the designer of the game:

Finally, is it possible to have an election on an atoll if the two cubes are of only one color?

[We played that, for example, if red had two cubes then the red player could have an election.]

This was his response:

Hi Brad,

All your interpretations are correct.

Have nice times with BIG KINI,

Guido Eckhof

Thread: Two Questions (Proliferation and Movement)

punkzter — 2008-01-06T01:52:51+00:00

Two questions arose after playing Big Kini last night.

The first is about the Proliferation action. Some settlements have one square and others have two. The rules seem to imply that you cannot even place one settler into a settlement with two squares unless you use the double action. Is this the case?

[During my game, we interpreted it as if you could place into one of the two spots even if you did not use the double action.]

Second, when you take the Move action, can you only move settlers (created by proliferation) or can you also move Reef Ministers, Island Stewards, and Bay Barons?

[We interpreted the rules to say that you could move the other types of colonists if you wanted to.]

Thanks,
Brad

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Haffner — 2007-12-06T16:53:14+00:00

Box front

Thread: Re: Big Kini - Review

gschloesser — 2007-04-26T17:41:38+00:00

Innocent Bystander wrote:
Thanks for the review Greg. My group did feel that this game ended just as it became interesting.

I understand that the designer published some 'tweaked' rules. Did you use these rules or the original rules?

Adding an extra turn sounds like it might be worth trying.

We have played with the rule that the game doesn't end until the conclusion of the 12th turn, but not with the "7 gold" to explore. I'm going to have to try that one.

Thread: Re: Big Kini - Review

Innocent Bystander — 2007-04-26T09:22:31+00:00

Thanks for the review Greg. My group did feel that this game ended just as it became interesting.

I understand that the designer published some 'tweaked' rules. Did you use these rules or the original rules?

Adding an extra turn sounds like it might be worth trying.

Cheers

Steve

Thread: Re: Big Kini - Review

gschloesser — 2007-04-26T03:08:58+00:00

cvlw wrote:
Many thanks for writing this review. We're always looking for hidden gems. Satisfying when you find them, isn't it? Nice review. What's your take on its replayability?

I've played it probably 8 or 9 times now, and still enjoy it. My only concern is that it does seem to end a bit quickly, which prevents many "elections" being held We've tinkered with adding another turn, and it did seem to work well.

Thread: Re: Big Kini - Review

cvlw — 2007-04-26T02:29:35+00:00

Many thanks for writing this review. We're always looking for hidden gems. Satisfying when you find them, isn't it? Nice review. What's your take on its replayability?

Thread: Big Kini - Review

gschloesser — 2007-04-25T20:36:06+00:00

BIG KINI

Designed by: Guido Eckhof
Released by: Play Me Games
3 – 4 Players, 1 – 1 ½ hours
Review by: Greg J. Schloesser
Rating: 7

Each Spiel in Essen, I organize in advance a list of the games in which I am interested. While at the convention, I make it a point to inspect, and possibly play these games, after which I make my decision as to whether I should purchase them. However, it is quite common to find a half-dozen or more games which initially did not catch my interest, or, indeed, of which I had heard absolutely nothing. Big Kini from first-time designer Guido Eckhof was one such game.

Released by Play Me Games, which is a retail game store in Germany, the game received little advance publicity. Indeed, it was initially only being sold at the small Play Me booth in the Messe (convention center). With so many small publishers permeating the halls, there simply isn’t enough time to view every game available. As such, choices are made, and many booths are simply by-passed. Unquestionably, I would have by-passed Big Kini had it not been one of the top-rated games at the Fair Play booth. That piqued my interest, so I scheduled a time to play the game.

While the rules explanation we received was sketchy, we succeeded in playing and the experience was quite good. Subsequent plays have confirmed this initial reaction: Big Kini is a fine game. The game is one of discovery and power, as players set sail across the seas, discovering islands and maneuvering their pawns into positions of power. The cartoon-like artwork belies the strategy game which lies within.

Eighteen atoll tiles are set out face-down in a pattern, with the four corner atolls revealed. These serve as the starting islands from which the players will begin the exploration and expansion. Each tile depicts three islands, each with several positions known as “official posts”. These posts include:

Island Steward. This position allows the controlling player to control the feature to which he is adjacent. This could be:

• Harbor: allows the player to set sail to new islands or on voyages of discovery.
• Factory: provides income to the player.
• Settlement: allows the player to place a new token onto the island.

Reef Minister. This position is adjacent to two of the above features, and gives the player flexibility as to which action he can control.

Bay Baron. This is the top position on an atoll, and the player occupying this position can control any of the atoll’s three features.

Many atolls have multiple Island Steward and Reef Minister positions, but there will only be one Bay Baron position and that can only be obtained via an election. More on this a bit later.

One of the extremely clever mechanisms in the game is how actions are determined. Each player has two actions per turn, but players alternate taking one action per turn. There are six possible options on a player’s turn … maybe. You see, each action may only be performed three times on a turn, and only twice for the discovery action. When a player executes an action, he places one of his markers on the first open spot for that auction. Once an action is performed three times, no one else can execute it that turn.

Furthermore, the first player to execute a specific action on a turn gets to perform it twice. The player who opts to execute an action the third time on a turn must PAY 2 gold for the privilege. This mechanism causes players to race to perform certain actions, and often causes angst when deciding which action to perform. Many times a player will have plans to perform two particular actions on a turn, only to discover that one of those actions isn’t available on his second phase. Ouch!

So just what are these actions? They are worth exploring in a bit of detail.

Proliferation. The player controlling the settlement position on an island may place a new settler (marker) onto the island, provided that space is vacant. Getting new markers onto the map is very important as it allows you to spread your presence across the sea and gain control of valuable positions.

Move. Moving a settler to a new position on an island is free, with the only restriction being that you cannot move a settler directly to the Bay Boss position. Again, this requires an election.

If you wish to move to a new tile, you must control the harbor position. The number of ships depicted in the harbor dictates how far you may travel. For each tile traversed, be it previously discovered or unknown, the player must pay one gold. Once arriving at a new atoll, the player may place his settler onto any available location … again, with the exception of the Bay Baron.

Income. A player controlling the tobacco factory position may collect income. The amount of income earned is listed beside the factory. Each factory may only produce once per turn, so there is usually a rush for income each turn.

Taking goods. Most tiles depict one of three possible types of goods. The player controlling the goods position on the atoll takes a corresponding good marker. Goods, collected in sets of three, are worth victory points at the end of the game. Further, they can be used to influence elections on the atolls.

Election. This is the only method by which a settler can advance to the Bay Baron position. There must be at least two settlers on the island, and a settler not holding a position cannot move directly to the Bay Baron position.

Each settler can cast one vote, while the current occupant of the Bay Baron position has two votes. Players can commit good markers matching the type available at the island, adding one vote per good contributed. Negotiations are allowed, with money and/or goods serving as incentives. The player receiving the most votes may move one of his settlers to the Bay Baron position, while the current occupant is forced to another location on the atoll.

Not only does the Bay Baron have the ability to exercise the power of any island feature, but the occupant of the position also earns five victory points at game’s end. Thus, elections for these positions can be spirited.

Discovery. This is similar to moving one’s settler across the seas, but it costs an additional 5 gold to discover, thereby flipping, a tile. As a reward, the discoverer receives 2 victory points.

Each round is played in an identical fashion, with the game ending after twelve rounds or once the final atoll is discovered. Players earn points for occupying positions on the islands (5, 2 or 1 point), discovery chips, goods sets and gold. Of course, most points wins.

In spite of its cartoonish appearance, the game offers quite a bit of depth and strategic options. Players must attempt to maneuver their settlers into positions of power, but cannot overlook the value of making discoveries or collecting goods. Care must be taken to maintain strength on islands wherein you control the Bay Baron position, lest the office be ripped from underneath you. Conversely, performing such hostile takeovers on atolls controlled by your opponents moves you steadily closer to victory.

As mentioned, choosing which actions to perform each turn is critical, as is prioritizing these actions. You must also be ready to shift your planned actions when your original choice is no longer available. Adaptation is a vital skill.

Big Kini is one of those pleasant, surprise gems that helps make Essen well-worth attending. I honestly didn’t expect to be impressed … but I am. In fact, it falls squarely in the top tier of games from the 2005 convention. In a game that involves exploration and discovery, the best discovery was the game itself!

Thread: Big Kini Takes A Toll

Samuraicat — 2007-03-24T02:52:59+00:00

Last Wednesday at the weekly Appalachian Gamers session Big Kini made its first appearance. The players were Ted, Tony, Travis and me. Only Ted had played before so he explained the rules while we set out the tiles and separated the cubes in preparation for play.

To start play, we each selected our atoll of choice and prepared to get down to business. The first order of business for the other three players was to have babies while I earned money off my tobacco plantation and immediately expanded to a new tile. I was hoping to find additional expansion spaces but I happened to pick a real dud of an atoll. My inability to create more settlers would prove to be my undoing.

After creating additional settlers the other players started explorations of their own. To say the finds were underwhelming would be an understatement. Each of the first atolls turned up by each player turned out to be rather poor...either poor plantations, lack of expansions slots or a combination of the two prevailed. Play continued with each of us performing the variety of actions. Nothing particularly exciting happened because each of us really concentrated on building within our own areas and nominating settlers to the position of Bay Baron in order to gain maximum points.

About midway through the game Ted made the first move into enemy territory. He moved a settler onto one of Travis' atolls in order to have access to additional expansion slots. It seemed aggresive at the time but turned out not to be so as Ted never tried to take control of the entire atoll but rather concentated on expanding and also earning several sets of shells.

I haven't mentioned much about Tony because he was quitely building up his own territory. As I said earlier, not much exciting was going on!

The game finally ended when we reached round twelve. There was one tile that was left unexplored because nobody had the resources to reach it before game's end. The final scores were:

Travis 49
Tony 44
Ted 43
Me 42

I really do think my inability to breed early cost me late in the game. Without settlers you can't expand efficiently, you lose out on the ability to take advantage of the 2x actions and you have to waste turns doing maintenance/shifting of cubes at times. If I were to play again I would certainly do things differently.

With that said, I don't think Big Kini will be hitting the table again any time soon. I, for one, found the game to be rather busy. In many games I can usually get a feel for who is doing well and who isn't. I didn't really get that feeling in this game. Sure, I could have sat there for 5 minutes and added up running scores in my head but I don't enjoy doing that and wouldn't want to waste everyone's time! Besides, that's not my idea of fun. The other players had similar feelings.

We were also disappointed by the lack of conflict. We could have been more aggressive but with an inability to easily determine who was doing well and who was not it made engaging in conflict pointless as far as we were concerned. It was much easier for us to simply concentrate on our own areas and maximize our holdings as best we could.

There is certainly a game here but it wasn't one that I really enjoyed enough to play again any time soon.

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spearjr — 2006-12-14T14:12:50+00:00

Playing Big Kini at Fall KitCon 2006

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MurWiz — 2006-10-31T14:33:35+00:00

After the first turn or so at KitCon '06

Thread: Re: Big Kini - Session Report

fubar awol — 2006-06-19T16:48:59+00:00

Played again - same rules used, same configuration.

The last atol was explored on turn 11, so if we had not been playing to turn 12, it would have ended a turn earlier. I like the idea of the players controlling the end of the game, so I will probably play next time that the games can also end at the end of the turn when all atols are explored.

Winning score was again 44, second place was 42. The changes are an improvement. I look forward to playing using the cards... hopefully next game.

Edit: there were more elections involving multiple players: three. The ultimate winner lost one of the contested elections.

Thread: Re: Big Kini - Session Report

fubar awol — 2006-06-11T16:06:56+00:00

I played a 4-player game using ALL of the "fix it" variants from the new expert rules:

1. Exploring costs 7
2. Play all 12 turns
3. Use the 4 extra new tiles from the expansion
4. No cards (because we were 4 players and 3 were new to the game).

Actually, the second variant was not relevant because the increased cost of exploration slowed things down enough that we explored the last atoll on turn 12!

We had two elections that involved opposing players - one was quite early in the game.

The game was won with a tie breaker (most settlers) - at 44 points.

Thread: Re: The new expert rules

fubar awol — 2006-06-11T16:05:49+00:00

Thread: Re: Discovery Action - move a cube, too?

fubar awol — 2006-06-09T22:18:54+00:00

This is the way we interpreted the rules too. Note that the new "expert" rules increase the cost of exploration from 5 to 7 - in addition to the cost of movement of course...

Thread: Re: Double Actions?

fubar awol — 2006-06-09T22:16:21+00:00

There is a published clarification now - the expert rules specifically says that players do not have to use actions they select.

Thread: Big Kini - Session Report

gschloesser — 2006-03-22T22:29:18+00:00

When I returned from teaching the new Ticket to Ride to the other group, Kevin was setting the table for a return to the islands of Big Kini. We played with the 5 – 6 player expansion, but did not use the cards as we had several folks new to the game. We did decide to play a full twelve rounds, however, hoping that this would encourage more elections to be held. Sadly, it didn’t. I guess we should have used the other variant wherein discoveries of new hexes cost 7 gold as opposed to 5 gold.

I still find the game quite enjoyable, but it does need that little extra boost to get it beyond “good”. Perhaps playing a full twelve rounds and increasing the cost of discovery would do the trick. I also going to have to try using the cards.

Discoveries, however, did NOT win this game. Chris, Kevin, Robert and I all made three-to-four discoveries each, while Jim only made one – yet he still tied for the victory. Jim’s points came from occupying key positions on the atolls, and a game-best 9 points from three sets of commodities.

My big boost came from the fact that only one person made an appearance on one of my islands. I owned every “Bay Baron” position, so was uncontested for the entire game.

Finals: Jim 45, Greg 45, Chris 41, Robert 38, Kevin 26

Unfortunately, we picked-up the pieces as we were tallying the points, so we couldn’t determine a winner via the normal tie-breaking method.

Ratings: Kevin 8, Chris 7, Greg 7, Robert 6, Jim 5

Thread: Re: Variants and Optional rules

fnord23 — 2006-02-10T05:23:42+00:00

It is completely unclear in the rules as to how Discovery is supposed to work:

1) Costs 5, plus normal movement cost
2) Must be in range
3) Lets you move a settler (and only a settler)

It is the "plus normal movement cost" and the fact that you get to move a settler (and only a settler) that are simply not addressed.

And the German rules are just as unclear.

The only way we got to the correct way to play was the kind reports from multiple people on how the designer taught them at Essen.

Thread: Re: Variants and Optional rules

shawn_low — 2006-02-10T03:59:25+00:00

Having just read the Expert rules again, I'm a little annoyed to find out that Playme has said that the expansion (which they charged extra for) was a beta version and they hinted at a Final edition of Big Kini (perhaps with expansion).

Perhaps it's a poor German to English translation, but did they just admit to releasing a 'beta' product?

Also, it seems like Playme recommends using the expansion (especially the cards) even when playing with less than 5 players.

Hope they offer 1st edition owners some way of an upgrade if they actually do a new edition.

Thread: Re: Variants and Optional rules

shawn_low — 2006-02-10T03:47:56+00:00

It looks good. In addition to new setup, there is a solitaire variant.

This basically sums it all up:

End of the game

One criticism concerned the early ending of the game with thediscovery of the final atoll tile. Just when you feel that the gamereally gets going it’s already over. Here are a number of options to prolong gameplay which the players can agree on before starting a game:
·Set the cost for discovering an atoll at 7 rather than 5 bay barons

·Always play all 12 rounds

·If the expanded version is available use all the atoll tiles in a game with 4 or 5 players, or 2-3 extra atoll tiles in a game with 2 or 3 players.

Additional pointers on interpreting the rules

Pointer 1:A settlement square can only be occupied via the action Proliferate, not via the action Make a Move.

Pointer 2:When a player places his action piece on a double action square he may choose not to perform either one or even both of the permitted actions in order to block these actions for the otherplayers, and the same applies on a standard square. However,every player is entitled to play a corresponding action card in the sequence ordained by the action numbers.

Chris, what discovery rules were you unclear about? I never really had problems.

Thread: Re: Variants and Optional rules

fnord23 — 2006-02-10T02:05:57+00:00

They are out:

http://vnh2.hsk-net.de/isroot/playme/images/BIGKINI_SPR_EXPE...

Unfortunately, they still don't address exactly how discovery is supposed to work...although discussions here have made it clear, it would still be nice to have an official clarification.

Thread: The new expert rules

easterly1 — 2006-02-09T22:57:57+00:00

Playme.de has released "expert" rules, which attemts to address some of the issues.

http://vnh2.hsk-net.de/isroot/playme/images/BIGKINI_SPR_EXPE...

Thread: Re: something is wrong

cva3 — 2006-02-09T20:08:45+00:00

Is there an official ruling on this??

I interpreted the rules literally and play that elections can be held with 2 colonists on an island, even if they are the same color. I agree that intuitively it makes more sense that there be different colors but seems like a MAJOR distinction for the author to leave out of the rules and to likewise assume he meant to add.

Thread: Re: Variants and Optional rules

locusshifter — 2006-02-07T21:20:19+00:00

We never had any problems, but, as one perrson suggested, you could simply play the game out the full number of rounds and eliminate the original game end condition.

This would definately put a stronger emphasis on elections.

Thread: Re: Variants and Optional rules

Ryan Wheeler — 2006-02-07T20:31:19+00:00

Thanks Geo!

Does anyone have any indication as to if these optional rules will address the "problems" that have been discussed 'round these parts concerning the power of the Discovery option and the "it ended just when it was getting interesting" perception?

I don't know if these situations really exist, but I don't have enough experience to where I've been able to form my own opinion. I certainly see the concern though.

Thread: Variants and Optional rules

GeoMan — 2006-02-07T20:17:20+00:00

(from www.spielbox.de):

Play.me is going to release new variants and optional rules for Big Kini after the Nuremberg 2006 fair.

Thread: Re: Exporation

locusshifter — 2006-01-27T18:05:25+00:00

Greg Scholsser has the best solution I think, and that's just to play the game out rather than let it end when all tiles have been revealed. The elections and other positions weigh in much more heavily then.

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puppi — 2006-01-23T05:21:28+00:00

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shawn_low — 2006-01-17T01:53:02+00:00

Box contents: action board, money, wooden bits and countersheets.

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shawn_low — 2006-01-17T01:49:18+00:00

Big Kini box size comparison. Same size as Alea Large bookcase game.

Thread: Re: Exporation

easterly1 — 2006-01-14T03:25:50+00:00

shawn_low wrote:

Could be me, but I'm under the impression that the first player to choose an action has to choose the 2X one.

Yes, as stated earlier, that this appears to be the way the designer intended the game to be played, although the rules are less then definitive. (hence the "variant" remark.)

shawn_low wrote:
easterly1 wrote:
our variant, which seems to fix the problem and makes for a better game,
is the following:

In order to select an action, the player must be able to perform the action, and in order to select a 2x, you must use both actions.
works very well and leads to some difficult decisions.
Marc M

This doesn't seem to work well. Why? At the start of the game and during other points as well, it's near impossible to select a 2X action.

For example, at the start, you only have control of 1 factory, 1 harbour and perhaps one settlement. The first few turns will be absolutely slow and predictable (settle, income, explore, move), etc.

Yes, this will slow down the game, but after all that *is* the point, since the main complaint about the game is a premature ending due to overaggressive exploration. So this variant does lengthen the game in a positive manner while offering a broader decision tree. IMHO

It does make for a better game, since it adds additional tension to the choices you have to make. It forces a player to set up their moves in advance. For example on turn 1, I have the choice of taking a 2x for proliferation or say exploration in an effort to be able to take a 2x in another action, while knowing that the proliferation 2x will no longer be available to me. Fewer guys with a chance for more money...

Also, we've never had a problem with players being unable to select 2x actions, albeit they may not be able to select a 2x in their 'best' action. The overall effect is that a player is often faced with the decision of taking a 2x in there 2nd or 3rd option vs. a single x action in their best option. This will happen for two reasons. 1) two actions in something may be better in the long run then the single action that helps you immediately & 2) taking a 2x from another player may be more beneficial to you then letting that player get the benefits from what may be their lone 2x option.

Marc

Thread: Re: something is wrong

Solamar — 2006-01-09T21:37:18+00:00

No, it is not obvious. All the rules said when I read them was it requrest two colonists there. There was no indication that it had to be two different players. That makes a big difference.

Thread: Re: something is wrong

GeoMan — 2006-01-09T01:18:44+00:00

skeletodoc wrote:
The rules say the election needs 2pieces [of a color}. It makes more sense if it means 2 different pieces rather than any 2 pieces. Why didn't they just say that rather than make it vague?

I think it is obvious. Elections require the presence of more than one party.

Thread: Re: something is wrong

skeletodoc — 2006-01-09T00:46:00+00:00

The rules say the election needs 2pieces [of a color}. It makes more sense if it means 2 different pieces rather than any 2 pieces. Why didn't they just say that rather than make it vague?

Thread: Re: something is wrong

shawn_low — 2006-01-08T22:41:56+00:00

skeletodoc wrote:
The setup doesn't make sense as the three of us were having elections on our own atolls for almost the whole game. There just wasn't any reason to move into another person's atolls.Maybe if the game plays out to 12 rounds without the discovery end, the game would have more player interaction. Any thoughts?Maybe 15 rounds?

Firstly, I think you've made a mistake in elections. You can only have an election if there are 2 or more DIFFERENT coloured player pieces on an island. This means you CANNOT hold an election if you are the sole occupant on an island.

This gives you incentive to stock up on goods and make a move into an opponents territory. Sometimes, even one pice is enough to win an election as the person who instigated the election breaks ties.

Secondly, you could try playing an extra 2 rounds after the last island has been discovered.

Thread: Re: Exporation

shawn_low — 2006-01-08T22:37:07+00:00

easterly1 wrote:
we've never had a problem with it, but we misunderstood a rule.
our variant, which seems to fix the problem and makes for a better game,
is the following:

In order to select an action, the player must be able to perform the action, and in order to select a 2x, you must use both actions.
works very well and leads to some difficult decisions.
Marc M

This doesn't seem to work well. Why? At the start of the game and during other points as well, it's near impossible to select a 2X action.

For example, at the start, you only have control of 1 factory, 1 harbour and perhaps one settlement. The first few turns will be absolutely slow and predictable (settle, income, explore, move), etc.

Could be me, but I'm under the impression that the first player to choose an action has to choose the 2X one.

Thread: Re: Discovery Action - move a cube, too?

shawn_low — 2006-01-08T22:33:34+00:00

sloehand wrote:
My gaming group interpreted the rule to mean that you could move to an undiscovered atoll by paying the Movement Cost and the additional 5 baron for the Discovery Cost. Once paid, you could take a piece from an existing atoll and place on either the yellow or pink square on the newly discoverd atoll.

We play in this fashion as well. However, you have to satisfy several criteria:

1) You must declare which Atoll you're exploring FROM.
2) You must control a harbour from the Atoll you're exploring from. The number of boats in the harbour determines how far you can explore.
3) You can move a piece from the Atoll you explored from to the newly discover Atoll. This costs $1 per Atoll crossed.

Thread: Re: Big Kini... a dissapointment

kvn299 — 2006-01-07T16:00:38+00:00

hence freeing up your original settling spots.

Um... I think you mean "spot." Having a one cube settling spot during most of the game, I can assure you, is no fun whatsoever and forces you to waste the potential of just about every turn you make, especially the 2x ones.

Sorry, I agree this game is seriously broken. Broken broken broken.

Thread: Re: Big Kini... a dissapointment

alfons — 2006-01-07T15:53:10+00:00

shawn_low wrote:
Funnily enough, some German gamers seem to think that players in other parts of the world play this game differently: they agressively explore, hence cutting down the game length.

Several quick fixes:

1) Exploring costs 7 gold.

We haven't tried to raise the cost of exploring, but we have played a game where we didn't rush exploring on purpose. That didn't help much, and i doubt the extra cost will help things much.

2) Game ends 2 turns after the last island has been explored or on the 12th turn, whichever comes first. This makes for a longer game.

In the game i metioned above, we agreed to play the full 12 turns no matter what. That didn't help either, the game is still way too short to have more than one or two elections involving more than one player.

I think the two examples of breeding spaces above are rare issues owing to bad tile mix. However, you can get around this by using the move action to move your previously settled cubes to neighbouring islands, hence freeing up your original settling spots.

You could do that, but it's much more usefull to take the money + explore action. You get more victory points that way, and if the other players follow your suggestion you have an easy victory.

Remember: if you have access to a harbour that can make your travel further, you can use that to move to another island further away and start settlign from there.

You could do that if the player that discovered the atol i question haven't occupied the breeding spaces or thaken the spots that allow breeding.

The game is broken. If you took away the victory points for discovering removed the possibility to hold elections vit just one color on an atol and made the game go 24 turns instead of 12 then maybe..... just maybe it would work.

Big Kine must be insufficiently play tested. Eiter the test group was to small. the time frame too short or the designer didn't listen to the feedback he got. Maybe more than one possibility applies.

As i wrote in the review... There is a good game hidden in there, it's a shame the rules betray it.

Thread: Re: Double Actions?

shawn_low — 2006-01-07T14:34:53+00:00

GeoMan wrote:

But if you have a choice, you may still want to select another 2X Action just to prevent another player from executing it twice.

I agree with this. We've played that you can select a 2x action even if you can only execute one action.

And you must have control of 2 sources of income in order to get money from each factory. Same with proliferation.

Thread: Re: Big Kini... a dissapointment

shawn_low — 2006-01-07T14:31:10+00:00

Funnily enough, some German gamers seem to think that players in other parts of the world play this game differently: they agressively explore, hence cutting down the game length.

Several quick fixes:

1) Exploring costs 7 gold.

or

2) Game ends 2 turns after the last island has been explored or on the 12th turn, whichever comes first. This makes for a longer game.

I think the two examples of breeding spaces above are rare issues owing to bad tile mix. However, you can get around this by using the move action to move your previously settled cubes to neighbouring islands, hence freeing up your original settling spots.

Remember: if you have access to a harbour that can make your travel further, you can use that to move to another island further away and start settlign from there.

Thread: Re: Exporation

easterly1 — 2006-01-06T03:28:23+00:00

we've never had a problem with it, but we misunderstood a rule.
our variant, which seems to fix the problem and makes for a better game,
is the following:

In order to select an action, the player must be able to perform the action, and in order to select a 2x, you must use both actions.
works very well and leads to some difficult decisions. I'm not sure, I'll play any other way again.

give it a try and let me know how it works with your group.

Marc M

Thread: Exporation

locusshifter — 2006-01-05T19:36:35+00:00

Is anyone still finding exploration to be skewed? If so, has anyone come up with a solution? If not, what strategies eliminate the so-called "imbalance" in the game?

Thread: Re: Big Kini... a dissapointment

kvn299 — 2005-12-20T13:17:02+00:00

This is exactly how I felt about the game... it just seems unfinished. It feels like it should be a longer, deeper game, but was forced to be a quicker, light game.

In one of our games I needed more settlers badly. I coulden't move far enough to gain control of a beeding space on a visible atol, so i had to discover one nearby. I tried 3 times and only a single breeding space showed up.

This happened in one of my games and helped me make the decision to not buy it. I started with one spot for population, and explored EVERY island nearby, desperately searching for more population spots. Towards the end of the game, I managed to find one, but by that time, it was far too late to do much of anything, like trying to win the game.

Too bad... this could have been a very fun game.

Thread: Big Kini... a dissapointment

alfons — 2005-12-18T01:38:37+00:00

Overview

In Big Kini you are out to discover and gain political control over small groups of islands (atols). Each player start with one atol in each end of the board, built of a various number of hex pieces.

All but the start atols are face down, and it's up to the players to discover the rest. When you do, you get 2 victory points and an oppertunity to place a wooden cube (a settler) on one of various influence spots on the islands - exept the most powerfull.... that spot you have to get voted to. Each spot can give the player control over one or more points of interest on the islands.

A place to breed new settlers
A harbour used to move to, and discover other atols
A place to find Shells and pearls - used for victory points or to buy extra votes in the elections for bay baron (the best of the political positions)

And last but not least to gain control over the tobacco plants that makes money.

In each of the (up to) twelve rounds each player has two actions. If you are the first to take an action this round, you get to take the action two times. If you are the second player, one time and the third player get to take the action one time... and pay to do so.

When the game is over the player with the most victory points are the winner. The 3 different political positions, a set of the three different shells and pearls, and the discovery of atols scores victory points.

Components/language independence

The medium wheight cardboard components feature cartoony artwork and gives the game a funny theme. It reminds me of vacation somehow. It works fine for the game and fits nicely. The settlers are small wooden cubes... pretty standard by now. each player have a couple of wooden disks for action allocation. Other than that there are a wad of paper money.

The rules are supplied in german and english and all components are totally language independant.

Luck/randomness

The start atols are drawn at random from a pool of 6 atols. They differ a lot. Some give more money than others, but not as many settlers.

During the game when the players discover the remaining atols, there is some luck involved. If you need to breed more settlers and all the atols nearby don't supply a beeding space, you are out of luck.

Ok.. you can always breed on another atol, but that's not always possible. In one of our games I needed more settlers badly. I coulden't move far enough to gain control of a beeding space on a visible atol, so i had to discover one nearby. I tried 3 times and only a single breeding space showed up. That made me rich, by gaining influence over the tobacco plants, but with little breeding space I didn't have much use for the money.

The nearest competitor flooded med with settlers and drove me of the islands.... forcing me to discover more atols - witch is expensive... but hey.. I had the money

Wheight/complexity

I would say this is a middle wheight game... leaning to the lighter side. It could be much heavier than it is, if some rules didn't get in the way of that. From my point of view, the interesting thing about Big Kini are the elections for bay baron - witch makes it into an area control game - so far so good.

What really kills the game are this rule... "as soon as the last atol is discovered, the game ends"

Why? The game only last twelve rounds anyway. We can play a 4 player game though the 12 rounds in 45 min. Why shorten it? If we played by the rules, we have had a 4 player game finish in under 30 min.

The game is simply too short - even if you play all 12 rounds. There isn't enough time to get to the area control part of the game. In the begining all players can't reach rech others start atols. When someone discover a new atol they try to get stong there and get elected bay baron, witch scores the most points.

Then someone else discovers another atol and from then on it is a race to discover the most atols. booooring.

I a couple of our games we really tried not discovering, and instead try to play the area control aspect. Even so we didn't have time and actions enough to really see much conflict... and that's a damn shame, because this really could be a very good game - it just falls flat, just before the finish line. We have played with the expansion too, and that just makes things worse. The cars are way too powerfull. With the card you can have an extra action in a turn, and that just speed things up - not a good thing.

Pros/cons

PROS:
Funny artwork
Good mechanics
Low downtime
Simple rules - medium gameplay

CONS:
The good mechanics aren´t put to good use
Too short, ends just as it's beginning to get interesting
Too little interaction between players, because of that

Conclusion

This could have been a great game - and maybe it will be... with some heavy rules tweaking. When the game are about to get interesting the game is over. Instead of the great area control game it could have been, it's simply a race game for money. Money buys discovery of atols, discoveries scores victory points. If you sit with your hands in your lap and don't discover, you have lost. Agreed you can try to take over the political positions from the opponents, but the actions are used better elsewhere. I know that some will disagree on these points, but all the times we have played, these issues came up. We have done our best to try and fix it but have failed.

So there you have it. Unless revised rules are released I would stay clear of Big Kini... witch is really a shame, because this could be a great game.

Thread: Re: Double Actions?

GeoMan — 2005-12-12T11:43:04+00:00

easterly1 wrote:
Yes, that is my point exactly, why would anyone ever take the single action before the "2x"? There would be no point, or in effect, no choice.

Agree. No point to select the 1X instead of the 2X if we refer to the same action.

All players select the 2X first.

But if you have a choice, you may still want to select another 2X Action just to prevent another player from executing it twice.

Thread: Re: Double Actions?

easterly1 — 2005-12-12T08:30:49+00:00

GeoMan wrote:
easterly1 wrote:
I will further suggest that logically, giving a player a choice between having a 2x action and a single action would be pointless without this interpretation.

You may be right that the game improves that way. But choosing a 2X Action (if you can't fully execute it) is not pointless: you prevent an opponent from executing it!

Yes, that is my point exactly, why would anyone ever take the single action before the "2x"? There would be no point, or in effect, no choice.

Thread: Re: Double Actions?

GeoMan — 2005-12-12T01:57:08+00:00

easterly1 wrote:
I will further suggest that logically, giving a player a choice between having a 2x action and a single action would be pointless without this interpretation.

You may be right that the game improves that way. But choosing a 2X Action (if you can't fully execute it) is not pointless: you prevent an opponent from executing it!

Thread: Re: Double Actions?

easterly1 — 2005-12-11T21:29:23+00:00

Geo

I guess its ambiguous enough to be interpreted either way, and that is one of the reasons I said it "seemed" to imply that you need both actions.

But, I will reiterate that we have not experience the premature ending that others have complained about by requiring a player to fulfill both actions when using a "2x." I will further suggest that logically, giving a player a choice between having a 2x action and a single action would be pointless without this interpretation.

I ***highly*** recommend playing by the interpretation that a player is required to fulfill *both* actions in order to take the "2x". IMHO it makes Big Kini a wonderful game with multiple paths to victory.

Marc

Thread: Re: Double Actions?

GeoMan — 2005-12-11T14:55:08+00:00

easterly1 wrote:
"If a player wishes to to obtain the income fore two factories by making a double move he must have influence over two different islands with tobacco factories."

I guess that it means that you can't get income twice from the same factory and not that you can't select the double move.

Thread: Re: Double Actions?

easterly1 — 2005-12-11T06:06:03+00:00

sloehand wrote:
The 2X action is available for ALL the actions.

If you place your marker on the 2X spot you do not have to use both actions. If you only have one legal move, you can still place there to block out the other players.

I believe that placing the markers is a left to right placement so the 2X always gets filled up first.

Except that the rules under both Proliferation and Income seem to forbid using the 2x unless you have 2 locations.

"If a player wishes to to obtain the income fore two factories by making a double move he must have influence over two different islands with tobacco factories."

But we've played that you can not use the 2x unless you can fulfill both actions, and, as a result, we have *not* had premature endings like some people have complained about.

Marc

Thread: Big Kini - Session Report

gschloesser — 2005-12-10T13:48:02+00:00

Kevin thoroughly enjoyed his first playing of this Play Me release, and has been anxious to re-visit the islands ever since. The game was one of my favorites from Spiel 2005, and I was more than happy to don my swimsuit and dive into the blue waters. Well, while we didn’t wear swimsuits, we did play to the sounds of the Beach Boys on the CD player!

With six players, we used the expansion, but opted to play without the optional event cards. The game plays very well with six players, and there is little down-time. I am happy to report that, in spite of some folks claims to the contrary, the exploration strategy did not prevail. Kevin discovered six atolls, but finished tied for third. It was Rhonda who emerged victorious, buoyed by having obtained four Bay Baron positions.

Finals: Rhonda 37, Rich 29, Kevin 28, Greg 28, Gail 25, Ray 25

Ratings: Kevin 9, Greg 7.5, Rhonda 7.5, Ray 7, Rich 7, Gail 7

Thread: Re: Double Actions?

sloehand — 2005-11-29T23:51:42+00:00

I believe that is the understanding. You do not have to use it.

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buergerberatung — 2005-10-25T16:18:47+00:00

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EYE of NiGHT — 2005-10-19T17:51:09+00:00

Guido Eckhof - the designer

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jorgkuck — 2005-10-18T20:25:41+00:00