Game: Pizza Box Football Expansion

Thread: Re: An Exciting Finish

ZackStack — 2008-08-09T15:58:13+00:00

Thanks for the information and for producing such a fun football game. There is a very nice balance of the strategy of considering your play call and the excitement of seeing how the dice show your player's efforts on the play.

Thread: Re: An Exciting Finish

eriksmith — 2008-07-28T15:23:23+00:00

Zack,

Thanks for posting this. I'm glad you enjoyed the expansion plays.

In case people don't know, the expansion plays are available for free. While they were not printed along with our original print run, they are delivered inside of 95% of Pizza Box Football games.

To get free expansion plays, you can go to http://www.pizzaboxfootball.com/expansion/CARD%20play%20sequ....

There's a PDF at that link that you can print to add the Draw, Screen Pass and Play Action to your offense calls and the Run Blitz, Route Jump and QB Blitz to your defense calls.

May you enjoy plying Pizza Box Football for years to come!

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
and Pizza Box Baseball

Thread: Re: An Exciting Finish

fryere — 2008-07-28T11:27:06+00:00

You totally captured why I think this is such a fun game.

Thread: Re: An Exciting Finish

Acoriano3 — 2008-07-28T01:56:56+00:00

Yeah, Zack, this was a great session for you. It gave you a chance to see PBF at its best. I know lots of people whine about the dice, but they really do balance things out. I hope you have many more exciting games such as that one and enjoy the team charts!

Thread: Re: An Exciting Finish

inttruder — 2008-07-27T22:47:44+00:00

Sounds like a great game.

Thread: An Exciting Finish

ZackStack — 2008-07-27T22:00:09+00:00

My Dad picked up the expansion for my (up to that point) boring Pizza Box Football game while I was visiting on vacation last week. I hadn’t really been able to get into the original as, not only was there limited play calling, but the calls regularly had no effect on the dice even if they were right. I was looking forward to seeing if I enjoyed the game more with more play calling options and effect charts.

Our first half was pretty uneventful and ended with me up 10-3. Dad played very conservative and had poor dice, and I took great advantage of the new Draw and Screen plays on both my scoring drives. Then we broke for lunch while my Dad chewed out his players (how often have you seen a grown man trying to motivate a plastic peg?). It must have worked because Dad came storming out with a whole new play strategy (namely rolling much better on play action pass plays) for 13 unanswered points mostly off my newfound fumblitis. Then the first play after the next kickoff my team turned a surprise screen into a very fast touchdown to put me up 17-16 and led to an exciting finish.

Dad took the kickoff out of his end zone only to the 15 yard line. He took one look at the time track and started grinding clock with conservative runs and the occasional short pass to mix things up. This worked well until midfield and the two minute warning when my dice caught fire and my run blitzes sent him back into his territory on the first two downs. His QB escaped pressure on a blitz to nearly get the first on third down. Dad felt the 4 yards for the first sounded better than a quite long field goal for the lead and went for it on 4th. I called a jump route at just he right time and my players knocked the ball down and took over on downs.

The first play of the final drive and my grind out the clock run gains almost 60 yards and puts me inside the 10. There is almost no time left so I kneel on the ball, but Dad calls his first time out to force me into running plays instead of just ending the game. So I call a normal run and roll a 4: FUMBLE! I manage to fumble backwards 8 yards but luckily fall on the ball myself. Disaster averted my next run play ends at the 2 yard line. Dad’s time outs are gone and there is one time unit left for 4th down. Since he prolonged the game I decide to kick the meaningless field goal… and roll triple three: BLOCKED! Dad recovers and rolls for return yardage. A 6 and a 2. 6’s may be rerolled for additional yardage and the breakaway chart shows that only two 6’s are needed on a fumble recovery to take the ball all the way for a TD. We hold our breath as the last die is thrown… and comes up 5. Ending the game with me ahead by one measly point and feeling very lucky to have come away with the win.

I’m definitely looking forward to my next contest with the expanded rules!

Thread: Re: Mishap Question

eriksmith — 2008-01-25T19:05:50+00:00

The Mishap ratings are an indication of how good the team is. The numbers are not used for any effect.

Glad to hear you're enjoying the game. Please be sure to sign up to get free New York and New England teams and play the Big Game for free at www.PizzaBoxFootball.com!

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
and Pizza Box Baseball
www.OTLgames.com

Thread: Mishap Question

blam72 — 2008-01-25T13:58:36+00:00

I'm fairly new to the game, but I absolutely love it. I recently picked up the expansion. I understand how the defense effect is adjusted by the defense ratings. What I don't understand is what do you do with the offense and mishap rating. Are the ratings (1,2, or 3) simply there to give an indication of how good the team is or do you use those numbers for some effect? Thanks in advance for any help I can get.

Thread: Re: Weak Run-defence with Goal Line Defence

referee — 2007-04-14T21:06:56+00:00

Wait, I know I'm one year late, but I see no conflict, just use the LOWEST of:
a) Grey die
b) Highest of black or white die. (That pretty much kills the benefit of GLD, though, so maybe Erik version is better, hehe).

Thread: Re: (Passing) Offense rules this game

slam74 — 2007-02-12T15:52:33+00:00

In the Football Outsiders stats for defensive lines, they have the "stuffed" percentages. They define that stat thusly:

Stuffed: Percentage of runs that result in (on first down) zero or negative gain or (on second through fourth down) less than one-fourth the yards needed for another first down. Ranked from most stuffs (#1) to fewest stuffs (#32).

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl.php

Defined that way, the best defensive line (Min) stuffed 35% of runs. The worst (Hou) stuffed 19%. The league average was 24%.

I don't really like the proliferation of pass offense in the real game either, but PBF doesn't seem to be too skewed as opposed to reality when it comes to success of passes vs. runs. From my initial plays of the game, I feel that turnovers are too prevalent (specifically turnovers for TDs), but I'll have to play more to see if that suspicion is true or not.

Thread: Re: Offensive and Mishap strength ratings

eriksmith — 2007-01-24T22:58:52+00:00

There is a related thread that can be found here. It also provides some examples.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/147830

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
www.PizzaBoxFootball.com

Thread: Re: Why only two pegs?

GaryP — 2006-12-11T22:33:51+00:00

Yes, the yellow peg is to mark the first down line. However, two yardage markers of the same color is a big plus so that you can easily count out a location without risking losing your place. This works just like in cribbage.

For example, when receiving a kickoff, the kicking team rolls the 3 black dice and I place one of my yardage markers where it lands. Then I roll my 5 white dice and more my second yardage marker that many spaces ahead. Then if I have any bonus rolls, I make those, and then use my first yardage maker.

Is it vital? No, but it sure beats accidentally losing your place and trying to backtrack three dice rolls.

The serpentine path is a big plus to me. It makes counting off "tens" during larger plays much easier.

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

eriksmith — 2006-12-05T23:46:58+00:00

TheLongshot wrote:
Does this mean that this expansion will cost slightly less than the 2005 expansion?

Jason

The 2006 Expansion will cost $19.99 on our web site and at most stores.

Best regards,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
www.PizzaBoxFootball.com
Our 2006 Expansion is Now Available!

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

philoiz — 2006-11-02T17:46:19+00:00

Very much looking forward to this Erik! Thank you for all the updates. Along with the great playability of the game, it's what makes me want to keep coming back for more.

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

eriksmith — 2006-11-02T17:34:28+00:00

The good news is that we're making the games in the US. We'll be offering the games for purchase as soon as I know that the printer has printed them. I should get the games 1 or 2 days after they're printed.

I'll be letting people know as soon as I have any certain word!

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
www.PizzaBoxFootball.com

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

Weapon — 2006-10-31T06:07:24+00:00

So wahts the word? Seems like its coming along nicely, whats the ETA for buying?

Thread: Re: Oakland 21, Atlanta 19

eriksmith — 2006-10-20T23:22:21+00:00

mbt444 wrote:
I bet if Pizza Box Football had a forum on their site, we could generate allot of replay summaries & PBF discussion....hint, hint

I'd love it, too. I enjoy reading these reports. We have the technology in place, but it will still take a while to implement. We'll keep folks posted on a forum once it's developed.

Meanwhile, it's great that we all have BGG!

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

eriksmith — 2006-10-20T23:18:01+00:00

Thanks for the session report, Paul. I'm really impressed to see how it turned out.

The current solitaire system assumes balanced teams and is intended for use with the original PBF teams (with or without expansion plays). The current solitaire version doesn't yet factor in individual team strengths and weaknesses**. (To be fair, some coaches seem to ignore their strengths and weaknesses. Case in point, CHI vs. AZ.)

I see from your last comment that you've found that defense effect's of -1 and -2 can have a great impact on the number of sacks they inflict on an offense--and good defenses are more likely to get those effects.

As most Strat-o-Matic fans would identify, ours is a different game. It's meant to be lighter. We're flattered by the comparisons.

our games usually last between 60 - 90 minutes. I doubt that we ever have reached two hours.

A first play of PBF will take longer than an hour. Subsequent plays tend to be faster, and trend toward an hour.

Solo play with stat-taking will take longer. Two-player stat taking can be played in almost the same amount of time as a game without stats, though it's always fun to stop and look at the stats.

FYI, one of our fans in Denmark has developed an Excel spreadsheet that duplicates the functions of the stat sheet we provide with PBF. It provides real-time stats to the players. I have to get back to them on a couple of minor modifications, but I was impressed with it.

Again, great job with the session report!

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company

** If anyone wants to volunteer to work on a solitaire system that factors modifiers for relative team strengths and weaknesses, go for it. We'd love to see what you come up with. Feel free to share it here.

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

eriksmith — 2006-10-20T17:55:52+00:00

We have heard from our printer. We have reviewed samples. We have run the sample cards under water, and the cards held up great.

We will go with printed cards. Neither Plan B nor Plan C (PDF downloads) look like they will be required.

We're very close. My printer tells me he plans to ship the games to me next Friday. I'll be letting folks know as soon as I get them.

Thanks to all for your patience and support!

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
www.PizzaBoxFootball.com

Thread: Re: Oakland 21, Atlanta 19

mbt444 — 2006-10-20T14:29:47+00:00

Nice game summary Paul...a very enjoyable read!

I bet if Pizza Box Football had a forum on their site, we could generate allot of replay summaries & PBF discussion....hint, hint

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

prizziap — 2006-10-20T10:21:37+00:00

Some bad calls are made in every sporting event. That's part of sports and part of life. Were some bad calls made in the Super Bowl? Yes- on both sides. Did those bad calls "give" the game to the Steelers? No. Was it one of the worst officiated games ever? No. Did I find the game "visually offensive" or some such- well yes at some points when I was screaming and yelling at the TV.

Case in point- the Steelers vs. Colts playoff game last year. There were several extremely bad calls (the interception reviewed and overturned being worse than anything in the super bowl imho). A person inclined to such opinions would think the refs were trying to take the game away from the steelers (along with Jerome Bettis' butter fingers). So what happened....the Steelers won. They overcame their own mistakes and the bad calls and won the game. Unfortunately for the Seahawks and their fans they were not able to do likewise in the Super Bowl.

Thread: Oakland 21, Atlanta 19

goldenboat — 2006-10-20T05:37:27+00:00

Intrigued by my first solo run through the game, and more familiar now with how to play it (and aware of rules I was getting wrong), I took Pizza Box Football out for another solo spin. This time I matched the 11-5 Atlanta Falcons against the hopeless (but much loved, at least by me) 5-11 Raiders. The Falcons controlled the ball for much of the first half, but failed to punch it in the end zone. Despite excellent field position throughout the half, the Falcons had to settle for field goals of 48, 48, and 58 yards. The Raiders, meanwhile, were struggling – their opening 60-yard drive resulted in a blocked field goal, and they were twice intercepted. But on the last drive of the half, things clicked for the Silver & Black; starting from their own 32, they rushed for 26 yards on two carries, and went 4-for-5 through the air, capping the drive with a 12-yard touchdown pass to go into the half trailing 9-7.

Atlanta opened the second half with yet another field goal, to extend their lead to 12-7. The Falcons were controlling the ball and the clock, but by failing to get the ball into the end zone, they were letting the Raiders hang around. And the Raiders took advantage. Their first drive of the second half looked a lot like their last of the first – a ten play, 73-yard drive that ended with an 8-yard touchdown strike to put the Raiders ahead for the first time, 14-12.

Hearing boos from the home crowd, the Falcons responded with their best drive of the day, taking fourteen plays and most of the third quarter to march 74 yards for the go-ahead touchdown.

The fourth quarter saw the Falcons trying to protect their 19-14 lead against a furious (and desperate) Oakland comeback attempt. Twice the Raiders marched deep into Falcon territory, first to have a pass intercepted in the endzone, then, after picking off a Falcons pass for a rare Raiders interception, they turned the ball over on downs at the Falcon twenty-two. While the Raider coach grumbled about the six points he might have had by field goals if he hadn’t been pressing so hard for the end zone, the Raider defense took the field, and held the Falcons to a three-and-out. The Atlanta punt gave the Raiders the ball at their own thirty-five as the clock stopped for the two minute warning.

The Raiders tried to run, and were stuffed for no gain, and then a screen pass fell incomplete. With time running out, Oakland pinned their ears back and aired it out, throwing underneath deep Atlanta coverage for three straight completions, moving the ball to the Atlanta 45. The offense was moving the ball, but the Raiders were out of timeouts, and a field goal could not help them.

Praying for guidance from Saints Lamonica and Biletnikoff, the Raiders went deep … and found a seam in the coverage … and a safety slipped and fell … and the bonus dice delivered a 42-yard strike, queuing Oakland up with a first-and-goal at the Atlanta three. The Raiders loaded up and punched it in on the ground. Atlanta couldn’t muster a comeback with only a handful of ticks on the clock. Ballgame – 21-19, Oakland.

Final stats:

Oakland:
Rushing 22 for 113 yards, 1 TD
Passing 20 of 34 for 220 yards, 2 TDs, 3 INT, 4 sacks for 25 yards

Atlanta:
Rushing 26 for 82 yards, 0 TD
Passing 17 of 26 for 146 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs, 3 sacks for 9 yards

The game played faster than my first solo attempt at the system, clocking in at just over two hours (and I really can’t see getting much faster than that). Defensive calls felt a little more important now that I was implementing defense effects correctly. As a two-hour solo game, PBF overstays its welcome by about thirty minutes … but I think the game will really shine as a 90-minute, two-player contest. Hopefully I’ll get to play a “live” game soon.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

ixnay66 — 2006-10-20T00:21:57+00:00

Sky Knight X wrote:
prizziap wrote:
Boooohoooohooooo

It's OCTOBER and Seattle fans still can't give up their whining about how the Super Bowl was "stolen" from them. Whaaaa Whaaaa Whaaaa

I am NOT a seahawks fan. I was an unbiased observer last year. What I saw was offensive to my eyes.

I've been a Steelers fan since 1974 and I was pretty bummed the officials screwed up so bad. I read a boatload of articles written by many, many sports writers and they all said the same thing. The Superbowl was a joke and bad officiating gave it to the Steelers. With the Superbowl being as big as it is, I'd honestly like to see a fair contest and last years Superbowl wasn't. Of course most Steelers fans (not me though) are happy with the result because their team won and they don't see a problem. I have a feeling they'd be of a different opinion if the shoe was on the other foot though and the Seahawks won because of a LOT of bad calls. I just don't think they earned it so I can't be happy for them.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

Sky Knight X — 2006-10-19T19:23:20+00:00

Oh yeah, and more on topic, our games usually last between 60 - 90 minutes. I doubt that we ever have reached two hours.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

goldenboat — 2006-10-19T17:44:52+00:00

goldenboat wrote:
Yeah, I was suurprised when I counted up the sacks and saw so many. Note that sacks have very little to do with defensive match-ups in PBF. There are "mishap" and "sack" readings on each team's offensive cards -- the number of sacks against the Steelers were more a reflection of how often they elected to pass (the solo system selected quite a few "long" pass attempts) than they are of the Niners defense. The defense has some slight impact on yards lost to sacks but no direct impact (that I can see) on the number of sacks that happen in a game.

I have to correct myself here. After reading examples posted by the game's designer elsewhere here on BGG, I realized I was playing the game incorrectly. Defense effects (+/- 1 or 2) impact the three black dice rolled by the offensive team directly, rather than modifying the yards gained/lost (as I was playing). So, a better defense will more often reduce an offensive roll toward the bottom end of the chart, where sacks and mishaps happen, and in this way the better defenses will cause more sacks.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

Sky Knight X — 2006-10-19T16:58:31+00:00

prizziap wrote:
Boooohoooohooooo

It's OCTOBER and Seattle fans still can't give up their whining about how the Super Bowl was "stolen" from them. Whaaaa Whaaaa Whaaaa

Give me a break. The Steelers didn't play their best by any means, but they made some big plays when they needed them. The Seahawks didn't. The refs weren't the ones who horribly managed the clock for Seattle at the end of both halves. The refs didn't bite on the fake on the Randle El touchdown pass. The refs weren't the ones who couldn't tackle Willie Parker on his TD run.

Stop you're whining and grow up. Geessh you guys act like children....now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go revel in the Steelers FIVE count'em FIVE Lombardi Trophies Nanana boo boo

All kidding aside, if there's anything you can do to help speed along Shaun Alexander's recovery I'd appreciate it. He's on my fantasy team, and it would be great to get him back soon. Thanks.

I am NOT a seahawks fan. I was an unbiased observer last year. What I saw was offensive to my eyes.

but they made some big plays when they needed them. The Seahawks didn't.

Exactly, and why is that? Seattle's big plays were taken away, Pittsburghs weren't. Sure, Seattle made mistakes, but Pittsburgh made just as many. You can only make that argument if Pittsburgh was flawless, which they were not.

Seattle beat Pittsburgh in every meaningful statistic (other than the score). Roth had the lowest quarterback rating for a winning QB in the history of Superbowls. Then how did the Steelers win? What was the difference? Six questionable calls at crucial times that all went Pittsburgh's way.

Actually, I usually defend NFL refs, because I think they are outstanding (after all, I have seen NBA games ). Almost always, bad calls and no calls even out over the course of a game. But the Superbowl was a one-sided mess.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

rlfix — 2006-10-19T16:31:46+00:00

I have played the game a few times and while I do enjoy it (my son loves it), it seems that the rushing statistics are consistently below average, in terms of yards per rush. Is this just me?

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

ted_k27 — 2006-10-19T14:14:04+00:00

I've been playing Pizza Box Football for awhile now and a basic game(using the simple timing) played face-to-face usually lasts about an hour. It is very quick when playing face-to-face.
I haven't used the expansion or the more detailed timing (I have experimented with the advanced rules however)but I can't imagine that a game using the expansion should go more than 1.5 - 2 hours.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

bop517 — 2006-10-19T12:21:00+00:00

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

bop517 — 2006-10-19T12:12:00+00:00

[q="goldenboatThat the game can even provoke this kind of discussion speaks to its quality. At the end of the day I think this is a pretty good game ... it cuts some corners as a statistical game, but it still generates reasaonable results while not bogging down. I don't think it is going to convert any Strat-o-Matic players, but I think it's a good game for general gamers, more casual sports fans, and guys wanting to try a football boardgame that were raised on EA's Madden video game.

Paul,

I think you hit it on the head with my feeling of the game. The one game I played of it, was without the specific teams. Lots of scoring, but the stats didn't seem outlandish. But, having played many, many games of Strat-o-Matic, it didn't quite scratch that itch. For my friend who I played against, he loved it. He had never played Strat-o, nor is he a stats geek (like I am with sports).

So, again, I echo your feelings on it. Good game, for the various reasons you note, but not for me.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

prizziap — 2006-10-19T11:16:28+00:00

Boooohoooohooooo

It's OCTOBER and Seattle fans still can't give up their whining about how the Super Bowl was "stolen" from them. Whaaaa Whaaaa Whaaaa

Give me a break. The Steelers didn't play their best by any means, but they made some big plays when they needed them. The Seahawks didn't. The refs weren't the ones who horribly managed the clock for Seattle at the end of both halves. The refs didn't bite on the fake on the Randle El touchdown pass. The refs weren't the ones who couldn't tackle Willie Parker on his TD run.

Stop you're whining and grow up. Geessh you guys act like children....now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go revel in the Steelers FIVE count'em FIVE Lombardi Trophies Nanana boo boo

All kidding aside, if there's anything you can do to help speed along Shaun Alexander's recovery I'd appreciate it. He's on my fantasy team, and it would be great to get him back soon. Thanks.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

Weapon — 2006-10-19T03:51:21+00:00

Wow, finally, a session report on here!

I have been waiting for a good session, and this is the one that has convinced me to really get this game. I am waiting for the expansion, however (new one) so I can have my terrible terrible Texans!

I am more for the faster paced games, btw, since I enjoy Sportsclix.

Thanks for the report!

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

Larry Welborn — 2006-10-19T03:06:09+00:00

goldenboat wrote:

I played Strat a ton back in the 70s and 80s, full stats, league play, etc. I seem to recall it was about a two hour game for me. My PBF experience may not have been quite three hours -- I played over two nights, and wasn't watching the clock all that closely. The important thing is that I don't give the impression that PBF is a very long game, because I don't think that's fair.

Comparing Strat to PBF ... and granting that they are really two different games trying to do two different things ... Strat might be more worth the effort for me, if both are going to clock in at the two hour range.

Looking forward to playing this one "live" sometime with another football fan.

Exactly. Unless the game is significantly shorter, or more fun in some way, I would stay with the deeper game. But perhaps playing face to face with another player would tip the scales towards PBF.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

goldenboat — 2006-10-19T02:37:20+00:00

Larry Welborn wrote:
I haven't played the strat-o-matic boardgame since the early 1980s but I seem to recall playing a game much faster than this, even while keeping detailed stats, so we will chalk it up to 1st time playing and perhaps playing at different speeds.

I played Strat a ton back in the 70s and 80s, full stats, league play, etc. I seem to recall it was about a two hour game for me. My PBF experience may not have been quite three hours -- I played over two nights, and wasn't watching the clock all that closely. The important thing is that I don't give the impression that PBF is a very long game, because I don't think that's fair.

Comparing Strat to PBF ... and granting that they are really two different games trying to do two different things ... Strat might be more worth the effort for me, if both are going to clock in at the two hour range. The problem I have with Strat is that there are so many moving parts on the design that it defies a simple manual solitaire system. The PBF solo charts were really slick (and fast). My experience with Strat's computer programs hasn't been so hot, and I really prefer boardgames to computer games, overall ... I was kind of hoping that PBF would scrtach my sports sim itch in a simple, easily-soloed format, but I think the focus of the game is really on the duel of wits for face-to-face playcalling, rolling dice, drinking beer, maybe having a game on in the background, and having a good time. So I don't want to condemn the game for not doing well what I was trying to do with it.

Looking forward to playing this one "live" sometime with another football fan.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

Larry Welborn — 2006-10-19T02:22:59+00:00

goldenboat wrote:

Larry Welborn wrote:
You can get more accurate results, much quicker, with the various computer games around. I think your criticism of generate special teams is very valid.

Computer games are a whole different subject; I think it's more valid to compare PBF to other boardgames. For boardgames, my only experience has been with Strat-O-Matic and Second Season, and PBF played much faster than either, at the expense of detail in the statistical model.

I haven't played the strat-o-matic boardgame since the early 1980s but I seem to recall playing a game much faster than this, even while keeping detailed stats, so we will chalk it up to 1st time playing and perhaps playing at different speeds.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that the computer games keep the stats for you, allow you to sim out the games you aren't interested in playing, and does it all much quicker.

I have an older copy of Action! PC Football that is fun. I haven't played the Strat's computer game. I have no idea, but it seems like the computer sales would have overtaken the sales of the boardgame version in this market.

Anyway, the game sounds reasonably fun but I don't see me playing it much.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

goldenboat — 2006-10-19T00:51:04+00:00

Larry Welborn wrote:
Thanks for the report. I had been considering this game, but 3 hours seems way too long for a game without individual stats.

Don't take my three hour experience as authoritative. I was a first-time player wrestling around with new charts and a new system, and I wasn't trying to play especially fast. While it did take me awhile to get through the game, I think it would be a mischaracterization to think of Pizza Box Football as a slow game, even with stat-keeping and all the bells and whistles.

Larry Welborn wrote:
You can get more accurate results, much quicker, with the various computer games around. I think your criticism of generate special teams is very valid.

Computer games are a whole different subject; I think it's more valid to compare PBF to other boardgames. For boardgames, my only experience has been with Strat-O-Matic and Second Season, and PBF played much faster than either, at the expense of detail in the statistical model.

Larry Welborn wrote:
As to the game itself, most of the stats looked reasonable, although 7 sacks seems too high, given the match-ups.

Yeah, I was suurprised when I counted up the sacks and saw so many. Note that sacks have very little to do with defensive match-ups in PBF. There are "mishap" and "sack" readings on each team's offensive cards -- the number of sacks against the Steelers were more a reflection of how often they elected to pass (the solo system selected quite a few "long" pass attempts) than they are of the Niners defense. The defense has some slight impact on yards lost to sacks but no direct impact (that I can see) on the number of sacks that happen in a game.

Larry Welborn wrote:
Also, why did you abandon the run in the 2nd half? If I read your stats correctly, you only ran 3x for 9 yds in the second half.

This is true, and one of those runs was for no gain. It was a couple things. One, the Niners were behind by two scores and I knew that "on paper" they were huge underdogs, so I took more risk and pushed things through the air (where the 49ers did enjoy some success). Second, I got away from playing the game a little and was instead looking at the charts, which rated the Niners as below average for their running game -- I let that spook me a bit and didn't stick with the run. After that, it was a kind of snowball ... with each possession there was less time left on the clock, and the Niners were still behind, so there was even more incentive to throw instead of run.

That the game can even provoke this kind of discussion speaks to its quality. At the end of the day I think this is a pretty good game ... it cuts some corners as a statistical game, but it still generates reasaonable results while not bogging down. I don't think it is going to convert any Strat-o-Matic players, but I think it's a good game for general gamers, more casual sports fans, and guys wanting to try a football boardgame that were raised on EA's Madden video game.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

Larry Welborn — 2006-10-18T23:48:42+00:00

Thanks for the report. I had been considering this game, but 3 hours seems way too long for a game without individual stats. You can get more accurate results, much quicker, with the various computer games around. I think your criticism of generate special teams is very valid.

As to the game itself, most of the stats looked reasonable, although 7 sacks seems too high, given the match-ups.

Also, why did you abandon the run in the 2nd half? If I read your stats correctly, you only ran 3x for 9 yds in the second half.

Thread: Re: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

Sky Knight X — 2006-10-18T23:46:39+00:00

Excellent report; yardage stats and everything! Three hours seems way too long, even keeping stats.

Judging by the scoring summary and the Niner's missed opportunities, my guess is that the Steelers were using the same refs that they brought with them to last year's superbowl.

Thread: Steelers 27, 49ers 17

goldenboat — 2006-10-18T17:04:48+00:00

I recently received Pizza Box Football and the 2005 team card expansion in trade. After a night noodling around with the basic game, I decided to try a full “pro” game using all the advanced rules and the solitaire play calling system available at the PBF website. I took the San Francisco 49ers (the worst team of 2005, with a 2-14 record) up against the Pittsburgh Steelers (the best team in the set, with a 15-1 record). I called plays for the Niners and let the system run the Steelers.

The basic engine of PBF is clean, even with the additional wrinkles of stat-keeping, clock-keeping, and the potential re-rolls resulting from certain situations when using the team cards. By the end of the first quarter the processes were second nature, and I could concentrate on calling plays and visualizing the field action, rather than having to fight the game system itself. This is a very fast ramp-up for any game, let alone a sports game. As reported in many reviews, the game is dicey, and even the most accurate defensive calls can sometimes yield little impact on the play outcome, but over the course of a drive you do feel that your calls are making a difference. The play calling mechanics and the results they deliver do afford the feel of pro football, which is an achievement for such a fast and simple game. I was also impressed with the simple solitaire system for offensive and defensive play calling – while not perfect in every respect, it was good enough to make solid calls while generating some surprises, and by playing the game rather than playing the charts, I found the solo charts made a credible substitute for a live opponent.

Both teams got off to a sluggish start in my game, trading three-and-outs and punting the ball back and forth through much of the first quarter, before Pittsburgh’s third drive resulted in a 44-yard field goal. Two drives later, the Niners picked off an errant Steelers pass and returned it 31 yards for a touchdown. San Francisco connected for a 45 yard completion on their next drive, ending with a 22-yard field goal, and suddenly the Niners looked like they were heading for an upset, leading 10-3 against a lifeless Pittsburgh squad. But the Steelers roared back with a pair of long touchdown plays near the end of the half (a 78-yard TD pass thanks to “breakaway factors” on a short pass route, and then a 26-yard TD run as the clock counted down inside one minute), and when the gun sounded for the break, the Steelers were out front, 17-10.

First half stats:

San Francisco
Rushing: 11 for 34 yards, 0 TDs, one fumble (recovered)
Passing: 8 of 19 for 89 yards, sacked once

Pittsburgh
Rushing: 8 for 77 yards, 1 TD
Passing: 7 for 16 for 125 yards, three sacks, one interception

In the second half, the Steelers survived four sacks and a couple turnovers in their own half of the field to prevail, 27-17. The Niners were unable to take full advantage of Pittsburgh mistakes, missing a 20-yd. field goal, then turning it over on downs when they failed to complete a 4th & 3 at the Pittsburgh 33 as time ran down.

Final stats:

San Francisco
Rushing: 14 for 45 yards, 0 TD, one fumble (recovered)
Passing: 20 of 36 for 224 yards, 1 TD, three sacks for 20 yards

Pittsburgh
Rushing: 19 for 118 yards, 1 TD, no fumbles
Passing: 18 of 31 for 233 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs, seven sacks for 38 yards

The team cards seem to provide at least an approximation of their historical team performance. I loaded up against the run on defense for most of game, but with their powerful running game the Steelers still managed to run up 118 yards and a TD. It would provide more color if individual player stats were available, but that would likely increase play time, and the PBF designers don’t seem interested in that level of detail. I was disappointed that all teams use the same, generic cards for special teams. Special teams are a third of the game of football, and when you’re using cards to generate historical offense and defense results, it’s a little discouraging to realize that the game could be determined by generic return yards or kicking results, despite the very real advantages (or disadvantages) experienced by many squads by their special teams units.

The game took about three hours to play, spread over two nights. Speed should improve with familiarity, and I don’t doubt the game would go faster when played face-to-face, rather than solitaire. As a solo experience the game was engaging and provided a narrative, but the lack of individual player stats will likely discourage me from undertaking any kind of long-term solo project with this game.

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

mbt444 — 2006-10-18T10:34:26+00:00

eriksmith wrote:
Unitoch wrote:
So, if I didn't buy the expansion initially, will the second expansion still have the expansion components and rules included? In other words, will I need to buy the first expansion in order to play this booster? Regardless, I'm looking forward to the updated teams.

We're still waiting for word from our printer. If we don't hear from him this week, we have a Plan B ready to go.

Erik

Plan B....PDF downloads perhaps???

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

eriksmith — 2006-10-13T22:06:06+00:00

TheLongshot wrote:
Does this mean that this expansion will cost slightly less than the 2005 expansion?

Jason

In my original reply I had said:

The 2006 booster will sell for less than the original expansion game.

I was wrong. The price will be $19.99, the same as the original expansion game. However, we had originally thought we weren't going to be able to include the gray die, and we weren't sure going to be able to produce physical cards.

We're happy to report that we've been able to produce color cards that are very durable. We've also made a solid pack that is more retailer-shelf friendly.

Best regards,

Erik

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

Ken Waido — 2006-10-13T21:43:39+00:00

Erik,

Is it "True/Not True" that there will be a college team expansion for Pizza Box Football?

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

TheLongshot — 2006-10-13T05:06:53+00:00

Does this mean that this expansion will cost slightly less than the 2005 expansion?

Jason

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

eriksmith — 2006-10-13T04:41:17+00:00

Unitoch wrote:
So, if I didn't buy the expansion initially, will the second expansion still have the expansion components and rules included? In other words, will I need to buy the first expansion in order to play this booster? Regardless, I'm looking forward to the updated teams.

The 2006 booster for the expansion will come with all of the rules and plays included with the original expansion. These rules and plays are also downloadable for free from our web site at www.PizzaBoxFootball.com.

No, you won't be required to buy the original expansion to enjoy the 2006 booster with the updated teams.

That said, the 2006 Expansion Game Booster will not come with the additional pegs that came with the original expansion for Pizza Box Football. The additional pegs gave you more team colors to play with, but you do not need them to enjoy playing Pizza Box Football with the 2006 teams.

[Updated December 5, 2006. THE EXPANSION HAS SHIPPED!]

Erik

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

Unitoch — 2006-10-12T18:03:40+00:00

So, if I didn't buy the expansion initially, will the second expansion still have the expansion components and rules included? In other words, will I need to buy the first expansion in order to play this booster? Regardless, I'm looking forward to the updated teams.

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

mbt444 — 2006-10-12T16:14:50+00:00

Erik, Thank you for the reply. To be honest, I was hoping that there would NOT be any rule changes as this leads me to feel that the current rules set is pretty stable & bulletproof. Again, I tip-my-hat to the folks who designed, developed, & play tested Pizza Box Football

Thread: Re: 2006 Expansion

eriksmith — 2006-10-11T22:45:41+00:00

Thank you for all of the compliments. And we appreciate everyone who has patiently waited for the updated teams.

We're a couple days away from our official announcement, which is dependent upon word from our printer.

But I can confidently tell you this:

(1) The 2006 teams will be released as a booster to the expansion game. There will not be additional changes to the rules in this booster.

(2) The 2006 teams are updated for strengths and weaknesses.

Thanks to you and everyone for their support and patience.

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
The Makers of Pizza Box Football
www.PizzaBoxFootball.com

Thread: 2006 Expansion

mbt444 — 2006-10-11T10:57:27+00:00

First, I'd just like to say that I really enjoy this game. For me it strikes the perfect balance between playability & simulation...very fun and fast playing, yet has all the 'flavor' of real football.

Ok, what I am wondering is when the new expansion teams are released, will there be any new rule changes/additions, or will it just be new team cards with updated strengths & weaknesses?

Thanks in advance and keep up the great work!

Thread: Re: What are those stars in Atlanta offense ratings?

juanjoroig — 2006-09-20T13:23:42+00:00

I found the Expansion FAQ at same time you posted the answer...

Thread: Re: What are those stars in Atlanta offense ratings?

eriksmith — 2006-09-19T22:27:02+00:00

From http://www.pizzaboxfootball.com/faq-expansion.htm#faq4:

What's up with the STAR ratings on Atlanta's offense?

There is no special handling required when using Atlanta's card, however Atlanta's running QB makes their card unique. Their Short Pass and Long Pass charts include QB Run results.

-----

The Atlanta team doesn't complete passes as well as teams with 2 ratings. But their QB does run with the ball. When you play against them, it can be frustrating.

I hope that answers your question. May you enjoy playing Pizza Box Football for years to come!

All the best,

Erik Smith
On The Line Game Company
www.PizzaBoxFootball.com

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eriksmith — 2006-01-23T18:44:59+00:00

From the Publisher

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RPardoe — 2005-11-22T14:45:45+00:00

Contents - 16 Double-Sides Team Cards, 2 Play Sequence Cards, Gray Die, Team Pegs

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redgamer — 2005-11-22T14:45:18+00:00