Game: Spirits of Niagara, The

Thread: Re: whirpool questions

mocs — 2008-07-28T19:29:20+00:00

Perfect
Thanks Jedi Music for the clarification!

Thread: Re: whirpool questions

jedimusic — 2008-07-28T17:30:45+00:00

From my reading of the rules:

1. Yes. Just, as you pointed out, you will have to drift one disc down-river (toward the falls) afterwards.

2. Immediately - i.e. it's placed the next time you have to put a river disc on the board.

Thread: whirpool questions

mocs — 2008-07-28T16:42:57+00:00

Hi, my two questions:
1)
It's possible take or drop gems when the movement ends on the whirpool disc?
example: with paddle card numb.4, I move my canoe of 2 river space, down-river; I arrive on the whirpool disc (near gems) and take to a gem (+ 2 points); Then, I move my canoe with the gem of a river space ahead (I can't finish the movement on the whirpool disc)... It's right?

2)when the whirpool disc falls over the waterfall, it's placed back onto the riverbed next to the landing place as the next river place...
it is put there immediately or to the next turn of game?

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Gibbo — 2008-06-02T02:58:58+00:00

Face to face with the Beaver Spirit

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Gibbo — 2008-06-02T02:57:22+00:00

Magical Moose of Transportation

Thread: Re: Which rules do you recommend?

ririmia — 2008-03-03T08:39:39+00:00

I play with all the rules (all together). I don't have any problem with them.
It's more fun with all of them together... In my opinion !
I like much more to play with Spirits of Niagara extension... then based game.

Thread: Which rules do you recommend?

Driver 8 — 2008-03-03T00:47:05+00:00

I know that Spirits of Niagara adds several new rules options to the game, but I'm wondering what the general concensus is about which rules to play with? Do you use all of them together? Maybe just a couple of them at a time? Do any of the rules additions seem to clash with one another? Thanks for the advice.

Thread: Re: So what does the beaver do?

Ogma — 2008-01-04T20:20:59+00:00

I was gonna' post something remarkably similar, John!

Thread: Re: So what does the beaver do?

reapersaurus — 2008-01-04T20:08:24+00:00

Blue_rose wrote:
This might be a stupid question, but what does the beaver do?

Well, I'm not sure if a boardgame site is the proper place to be looking for those kinds of answers....

I had to.

Thread: Re: So what does the beaver do?

DKahnt — 2008-01-04T14:24:56+00:00

You can change the weather with the beaver on...

Basically the beaver is a sort of "reset" for the weather. Once the weather hits +2, like you said, you put the beaver on a river space.

The river continues to move as per the rules, normally.

Once the beaver goes over the falls, the weather resets back to zero.

But, yes, you can change the weather with the beaver out.

-DK

Thread: So what does the beaver do?

Blue_rose — 2008-01-04T13:50:22+00:00

This might be a stupid question, but what does the beaver do?

The rules say that you put the beaver in the river when the cloud is on +2 on the weather track, and when the beaver falls over the edge, the cloud is moved to 0. But what then? Does the beaver do anything or is it just pretty? I have assumed that you may not change the weather while the beaver is in the water, but no rules state that.

Thread: Ah, the chaos of Niagara!

MerricB — 2007-11-26T02:59:25+00:00

For my birthday, many years ago, a good friend of mine gave me a book on chaos theory entitled, Does God Play Dice? Well, you could also call it Does God Play Niagara?, because I've found few "simple" games to be so unpredictable.

There is no luck in Niagara. Each player chooses their moves each turn from the available options. In fact, there's even less luck than Puerto Rico, where available plantations have an influence on the shape of the game. However, as you choose your paddle cards in Niagara without knowing what your opponents are choosing... ah, there comes the unpredictability of the game, and the fun!

This game was played with the Spirits of Niagara expansion, which I really, really recommend. If you thought Niagara was a too-simple game, Spirits adds a number of features that really increase the interest level, and the tactical decisions you have to make in the game.

]]>Rich and Mat consider the board after turn 2

The basic idea of Niagara is that you control two canoes that you use to pick up gems that are on the bank of the river. You win the game when you recover 4 gems of one colour; 1 gem of each of the five colours, or seven gems in total.

Moving the canoes is interesting. Including the expansion, you have 10 "Paddle" cards, each which displays a number indicating how many movement points your canoes get. A canoe must use all of its points moving in one direction - no changing in the middle of the move. It's a bad idea to move off the waterfall.

It costs 2 movement points to load a gem, and you have to deliver them back to the shore.

There's two kickers to all of this:

First of all, you only get to use each paddle card once. If you use the "7" card, you can't use it again - well, not until all the cards have been used.

Second, the river moves. After everyone has moved, the river moves along a number of spaces equal to the lowest paddle card... and it may sweep you over the waterfall, which is a Really Bad Thing(tm).

]]>The Niagara River after turn 4 - Will anyone go over the falls?

Some of us had played Niagara before, but it's not a hard game to learn. Of course, there are a few things that you need to know, like not to use your high paddle cards when going down the river. Due to the river movement, it's harder to get back!

Yeah, that's a mistake that Mike made. He spent a lot of time being swept back along the river, but he was lucky enough to not be swept off the river. No, that was something that Josh suffered.

With six players, there are canoes everywhere! Apart from depleting the gem supplies quickly, it also opens up the possibility of stealing from other players. Yes, if you have an empty canoe and manage to land on another canoe when moving upriver, you can "liberate" their gems...

]]>The game moves towards its end.

I thought I was doing really well, quickly getting three gems, avoiding the waterfall and the whirlpool, and stealing extra gems from Mike. When I had my canoes back on the shore, I increased the river speed, and had a lot of fun watching canoes being swept even quicker towards the falls.

Then I got too tricky: I moved only 1 space when at the fork on the river. This allowed me to steal a couple of gems. Unfortunately, someone then decided to move the river speed up to +2, which would be enough to take me over the falls.

However, I was saved! Another player had chosen to play the weather card, and the river moved back to +1. I'd just end on the edge of the falls, and I could move back next turn!

Unfortunately, a third player had *also* chosen to change the river speed. I couldn't resist the third change, and my double canoe - bearing Mike's gems - disappeared over the falls. Argh!

I managed to come back, and acquire more gems, though. We eventually made our way through all the paddle cards, and so with the first of the new batch, I was able to return to shore with 3 more gems, to take my total up to 6... including four different colours.

Unfortunately, Rich had managed to get four purple gems. That was the victory to him!

]]>Rich, Victorious

We were all quite surprised by this - everyone had been watching me. Mat had spent a lot of the game with Hurried Elk helping his canoe not vanish over the falls, and we'd had one Bathing Beaver reset the river speed.

There's a lot going on in a fairly quick game - about 45 minutes in all. I'm very fond of Niagara, and I'm sure it'll be pulled out again in the future.

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Marsh — 2007-09-11T21:23:13+00:00

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Marsh — 2007-09-11T21:15:02+00:00

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Marsh — 2007-08-18T15:06:05+00:00

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Marsh — 2007-08-18T15:03:26+00:00

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Marsh — 2007-08-18T14:59:42+00:00

Thread: Another six-player game

MerricB — 2007-07-27T00:31:51+00:00

In our Science of Board Games class last week, I'd introduced two of the students to Niagara (the other two having played it before). This week, I introduced them all to the expansion to the game.

Spirits of Niagara has a profound effect on the game. Where the original game is somewhat predictable madness, Spirits makes it more unpredictable (but equally mad! )

Two teachers and four students participated in this game.

The first turn saw four of the players choose a 3 for their starting move, thus ending their movement on the whirlpool and being swept a further space downriver; one player chose a 2, finishing her turn just above the river; the last player chose a 5, moved three, got swept one square downstream, and then loaded her canoe with a clear gem.

The game was notable for the lack of weather cards played - only three in the entire game - and a lack of gem-gathering! Well, the gems were being gathered, but not being returned to shore. They were certainly being stolen from other canoes - the double canoes really shake things up there.

One of the classic mistakes of playing Niagara is to use your highest-numbered paddle cards too soon. It's easier to go down the river than up, and a few players fell into that trap. Towards the end of the game, they were just hanging onto the banks of the river as they were swept towards the waterfall. Despite that, only one player lost a canoe over the falls, as he found the whirlpool blocking his movement back when the river was about to move five!

Still, playing high cards first can give you a big advantage, and one of the students quickly acquired three clear gems, and was on track to get the fourth, but the other players conspired to grab the rest of the gems first.

It was interesting to see the increased decision time the expansion added to the game; there were certainly more things to think about!

The game took only 8 turns in all; we each had 2 paddle cards remaining at game's end. I won the game, having kept my "7" paddle tile until the very last turn. I'd gathered one gem of each colour.

In the mid-game, I used the "hurried elk" card to get both my boats (and three gems) back to shore. In the end-game, I first stole the two remaining gems I needed, then used the "7" tile to get both boats to shore. One student had briefly had 5 different gems, until relieved of the gems in the canoes by the other players.

The Spirits of Niagara really does change the game into a more serious pursit, and an excellent game. This game took us about 45 minutes, which I think is a good length for a game.

Thread: Six players and many canoes!

MerricB — 2007-07-22T03:41:58+00:00

What do you do with six players? Well, you either split into two groups of 3, or have a 6-player game. Niagara is a good 5-player game, so I decided that the Spirits of Niagara would also make a good 6-player game.

I was right.

The six players were Craig, Rich, Meg, Julian, Rob and myself. Three players - Rich, Rob and I - had played the basic game before, but none of us had played with the expansion. Luckily, it's not a hard game to learn, but it's rather more difficult to master.

One thing about playing with six people: there's a lot going on. The river speed reached +2 twice in the game, and the "bathing beaver" happily travelled down-river to reset it back to normal. Craig lost both his canoes over the waterfall, and was sitting with only a double-canoe and no gems for the rest of the game. It's amazing how quick the easy gems go in a 6-player game!

Stealing was fast and furious, but getting back to shore was more difficult. Meg managed to reach a point where she had two purple gems on shore, and another two in her boats, but we managed to steal one of them before she could return back to shore.

One of the big points in Niagara is not to use your big numbers too early in the piece - you need them to go back upriver. The newer players didn't know that, and there were turns when the river moved 6 (4+2) squares, making things much, much more difficult.

We were unsure of one application, however: If you move downriver with (say), a 5, and stop on the Whirlpool after three moves and use your last two points to pick up a gem, do you move downriver before or after you pick up the gem? We decided it happened before.

I managed to lasso my boats to the shore, make use of the Hurried Elk, and stole many a gem. When we came to the final of our 10 paddle cards, I found I had only the 7 remaining! What an excellent thing! The Whirlpool was near the falls, and I could move both my fully laden boats to shore, giving me the victory with 7 gems!

Thread: Re: Adds a bit of spice to Niagara

chihiro — 2007-06-22T18:03:27+00:00

I played the expansion for the first time yesterda, with six people. I've played the original several times and enjoyed it greatly.

A couple of observations from the one game we played.

The new rule that affected gameplay the most seemed to me to be the double canoe.
The double canoe seemed to speed the game up a lot. The gems, especially the ones higher up the river, seemed to go very quickly indeed, which didn't give you a lot of time to plan.

The beaver didn't affect the game much as far as I could see. I suspect it was included as a safety valve in case everyone used all their small valued tokens at the same time.

The hurried elk did give an extra incentive to be the first to grab the most risky gems, though in the game we played one person grabbed it early on and landed quickly, the second person grabbed it and kept it till the end of the game.

Overall I like the original Niagara so any expansion that allows more players is a good thing. I don't think the extras added much that wasn't already there, other than being able to play with more players. If you don;t think you'll need to do that I personally wouldn't bother with the expansion.

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Capitaine Grappin — 2007-05-26T04:58:07+00:00

Yellow Canoes

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Capitaine Grappin — 2007-05-26T04:57:42+00:00

The Fish Spirit sends the Canoe down the waterfall

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Capitaine Grappin — 2007-05-26T04:56:49+00:00

Thread: Re: Hurried Elk & Lasso

beri — 2007-02-07T20:55:28+00:00

C, entirely.

Thread: Re: Hurried Elk & Lasso

af7hqs — 2007-02-07T19:46:49+00:00

OK, thanks! Now it's clear.

I think that I'll try also A, B or D as variants, just for fun.

Bye

Thread: Re: Hurried Elk & Lasso

LoneCleric — 2007-02-07T18:16:12+00:00

af7hqs wrote:
I'm sorry but still I don't undertand ... The two last posts seem saying two different things ...

No we don't. We're both saying "C".

But you were quoting two rules, saying that they contradict each other. I wanted to say that they do, indeed, make sense, and why.

So, once again (and only if you really care):
The rules do say that if you play the Lasso or the Cloud, and you have the Elk, you don't "move". But that doesn't mean you don't "lasso" the Elk boat out of the river. It means that you don't get the 2 extra move points, because you chose an card which isn't supposed to move your boats on the river.

Using the lasso isn't "moving". Not as the rules mean it.

Thread: Re: Hurried Elk & Lasso

af7hqs — 2007-02-07T17:36:59+00:00

I'm sorry but still I don't undertand ... The two last posts seem saying two different things ...

Thread: Re: Hurried Elk & Lasso

LoneCleric — 2007-02-07T16:55:02+00:00

af7hqs wrote:
One of the rules states "A player who plays a "cloud" or a "lasso" card cannot move canoes, and so cannot move an elk canoe either".

I'm pretty sure that the goal of this rule clarification is to prevent "smarty pants" players from saying: "OK, the Elk gives me extra move, and then the lasso moves my boat out of the river."

Which is why the cloud is also mentioned, because it could lead to similar abuse.

Thread: Re: Hurried Elk & Lasso

supertopix — 2007-02-07T16:30:11+00:00

IMHO is C.

Playing Lazo you have no movements points (I.e. "You can't move") but, accordingly to the rule, you have to put your canoa/s on the river bank, with the Elk.
H.Elk is yours, till you fall into the Falls!

My two cents

ps: you can find italian rules here http://nuke.goblins.net/downloads/6/0/Niagara.pdf

Thread: Hurried Elk & Lasso

af7hqs — 2007-02-07T15:48:17+00:00

When a canoe is on Hurried Elk and a player plays a Lasso, what happens to its elk canoe?

One of the rules states "A player who plays a "cloud" or a "lasso" card cannot move canoes, and so cannot move an elk canoe either".

This seems in conflict with the rule "A player who plays this card immediately removes his canoes from the water and places them on the nearest river bank".

So what do I have to do?

A - Move the canoe to the river bank and leave Hurried Elk on the River? In this case I think that, while Hurried Elk is alone on the river, a player can take it with him.
B - Leave the elk canoe (both canoe and Hurried Elk) on the river?
C - Move the elk canoe (both canoe and Hurried Elk) to the river bank?
D - Decide whether to apply A or B or C?

I suppose the author intended to apply the case B, but maybe is more logical the case A. In case A, for the player is too difficult to drive also the elk to the river bank and so he must leave it on the river, while its canoe is moved to the bank as usual. Case D seems an interesting variant, but must be discussed wether the case C is a realistic situation (could be?!).

Antonio

Thread: 2006-07-12 :: Game 2 :: 4 player Niagara with Spirit

Grimwold — 2006-07-20T09:42:01+00:00

Players: Grim, Al, Lou and Tim
Playing Time: 45 minutes

Later on Tim and Lou came round for dinner, and afterwards we agreed on a game of Niagara, and since I had recently got the Spirits of Niagara, I persuaded the others to play with this expansion.

Lou and Tim had only played once before, so I went over the basic rules with them, and then explained the expansion rules.

Playing with the double canoes, meant that players collected Gems a lot faster, and after a few rounds, both Lou and Al looked like they were very close to winning... Al with 3 identical gems, and Lou with 3 different, and the other 2 she needed in her boats on the river... however a lot of stealing took place and after a few rounds, Lou did not have the gems she would need to win, whereas Al had the 1 remaining gem he needed in his boat and was virtually unstoppable.

Meanwhile however I had been keeping quiet and collecting different gems on the sly, so on the turn that Al was able to land his winning gem, I was also able to land 2 gems and secure a joint win, while Lou also thought she could win, but that would've meant loading her canoe in the middle of it's move, which was not possible according to the rules.

Al won with 4 identical gems, plus 2 spare. I also won with 5 different gems. Lou and Tim came joint last, having landed 3 gems each, although Tim had 3 gems on boats ready to land next turn, and Lou had 2 about to be brought to shore. Everyone seemed to have fun playing the game, and enjoyed using the big boats and the "hurried elk".

Spirits of Niagara adds a few new ideas to the game, without changing the gameplay too much. The big boats are nice, and they certainly speed the game up a lot... we played through all 10 paddle cards only once, and had 2 more rounds after that. The whirlpool added a little twist to the reckoning of movement and paddle cards, which was interesting, and the hurried elk was very useful for players after those all important red gems to make it back to safety. Sadly the weather never reached +2, so the bathing beaver didn't get a chance to swim.

Overall a nice little addition, but not essential for gameplay.

Thread: Combining Diamond Joe with the River Spirits

zefquaavius — 2006-07-10T02:22:00+00:00

Does Diamond Joe interact with the angry fish whirlpool just like the players do? (presumption: yes)

Does Diamond Joe move zero when the first player has played a 1/2/3 or a lasso, just as if that player had played a cloud? (presumptions: yes and yes, because the river ignores those)

Though a player moving upstream, ending movement on the angry fish whirlpool, and thus pushed downstream one space is disallowed from stealing a gem in that downstream space, can a player get pushed downstream to Diamond Joe and still interact with him? (presumption: no, because surviving the rough water keeps the player preoccupied)

Can Diamond Joe use the elk? (presumption: no, though it would make for an amusing variant – right up there with a rabid beaver variant)

Thread: Re: Box contents incorrect.

plpompey — 2006-06-11T18:58:27+00:00

upstartcrow wrote:
Just opened my box five minutes ago. Guess what. TWO DOUBLE BLACK CANOES.

lmao somebody isn't geting paid enough in their packing department

Good news is that I received a spare canoe direct from Zoch this morning at no cost. I emailed them at info@zoch-verlag.com with a description of the problem and my home address.

Thread: Re: Box contents incorrect.

upstartcrow — 2006-06-09T22:36:10+00:00

Just opened my box five minutes ago. Guess what. TWO DOUBLE BLACK CANOES.

Thread: Re: Adds a bit of spice to Niagara

mrbass — 2006-06-05T01:04:20+00:00

"Hurried Elk remaines on the same canoe until it falls over the waterfall or reaches the landing plae. After the next river movement, Hurried Elk is place back on the red discovery place where it can be picked up again during the next turn."

thanks for the correction....I'll edit the above review to correct it. No Ok it did seem kinda powerful with two using it on the same turn...hehe.

Thread: Re: Box contents incorrect.

plpompey — 2006-06-04T17:28:55+00:00

That's great to know. I got a reply this morning from the company I purchased the game from and they are getting in contact with Zoch directly for me. Should take a few weeks, but my double black canoe should be with me soon

Thread: Re: Adds a bit of spice to Niagara

enricodandolo — 2006-06-04T11:52:14+00:00

Nice review! One correction, though. The Hurried Elk is only replaced at the pink area after the river moves. That keeps him from swimming back and forth multiple times in the same turn.

Thread: Adds a bit of spice to Niagara

mrbass — 2006-06-04T08:39:56+00:00

Spirits of Niagara adds the following elements:

- Can play 6 players now instead of just 5. New black paddle tiles.

- Each player has 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 paddle points (7 is new)

- A Lasso tile puts your canoes on the river banks waiting for the whirpool, for instance, to pass down the river.

- Each players gets a double canoe and a single canoe. 2nd single canoe isn't used. A double canoe can steal twice from one or more players (really powerful).

- 1/2/3 paddle which alows you to choose the # either 1,2 or 3 (useful for stealing) but only allows movement of only one canoe. This doesn't affect the river movement. For instance, if the paddles played were 4,5,5,7 and a 1/2/3 paddle the river will move 4 down (if weather track is at 0).

- If you start your turn on the pink river tile you can put your canoe in a Hurried Elk which can't be stolen from you (gems can though). Hurried Elk adds 2 paddle points to your paddle card played. (a 7 paddle becomes a 9 paddle for instance). As soon as the Hurried Elk is placed on land or goes over Niagara Falls it gets sent back to pink gem area AFTER the next river movement.

- A whirlpool (sticker you put on river tile) which starts on purple area. To move up river one must pay 2 paddle points to cross the whirlpool. Going down driver it's normal movement. However, going up/down river if you stop on the whirpool you move immediately one river space down. A canoe can never stay on the whirlpool.

- Bathing Beaver if the weather track ever hits +2 the Beaver is put on the first river tile on top near the rope. As soon as the Beaver goes over Niagara Falls the weather track is set to 0.

- Comes with a green transparent sticker to add space for the 6th player you attach to the Niagara board.

- In 6 players you put 8 gems in each area instead of 7 gems. And in 3 player you put 6 gems in each area.

So how does it play?

Played 5 player Spirts of Niagara expansion and it was quite the game. The double canoes are probably the biggest change. The whirlpool really makes you spend paddle points while paddling up river and adds more tension. Hurried Elk assists in getting those precious pink/blue gems back up river. 1/2/3 almost guarantees a stolen gem or gems. I ended up with more than 7 gems for the victory with one opponent just barely behind with 6 gems who would've tie for the win but was stolen from the previous turn. The expansion doesn't change the winning conditions it's still 4 gems of the same color OR 5 different gems or 7 gems of any color.

Is it worth $15 to $20?

I felt kind of let down when I found out what the Bathing Beaver did. I thought he'd do something more than just cruising down the river and setting the weather track to zero. Other than that though, it really spices up the Niagara base game and I think it's worth $15 to $20 that it's selling for.

General observation

I'd love to play this with 6 players sometime. Remember a game of Niagara without tons of stealing of gems isn't nearly as great with one with tons of canoe pirates stealing other's hard earned treasures. However, if you still don't like the base game of Niagara the mechanics are pretty much the same and I doubt this expansion will magically change your opinion of Niagara. But for those who love Niagara this adds some magic to it for sure.

edited: to correct Hurried Elk not placed back on pink gem area until AFTER the next river movement.

Thread: Re: Box contents incorrect.

GeoMan — 2006-06-02T16:26:05+00:00

Panic, not! Zoch has excellent customer service and even when one of my canoes disappeared (under the couch?), they sent me a replacement for free.

Thread: Box contents incorrect.

plpompey — 2006-06-02T09:50:38+00:00

I couldn't wait to receive a game extention that included a "bathing beaver" and was excited when the box was handed to me by my friendly postman. I eagerly tore off the plastic seal from the wonderful cartoon carton and carefully, as always, placed the parts out to check them off. Yes everything was there, hooray! But then I noticed something not quite right. I checked with the instructions, and even on some previously posted images on BGG. "IT CAN'T BE" I screamed as the realisation dawned on me that I had been sent TWO SINGLE BLACK CANOES!!! I rummaged around to see if I had misplaced it; I even checked under the moulded blue plastic housing inside the box...but nothing.

I have sent an email to the info page on the Zoch website and to the company I bought the game from...just waiting their replies now while my sixth player gazes at the hypnotic whirlpool and admires the wet beaver from a distance...Ho Hum..