Game: Redemption

Thread: Re: New Set On The Way!!!

dookufan96 — 2008-11-10T18:53:55+00:00

Rock of Ages Just Came out!!!

Thread: Re: newbie questions

hegiton — 2008-09-18T23:27:15+00:00

Thanks. That's how we played our first game.

Thread: Re: newbie questions

happyjosiah — 2008-09-18T12:39:21+00:00

1. Yes, one rescue attempt (or battle challenge) per turn.

2. No, it stays, and you may put another Lost Soul in it during your site maintanence phase.

Thread: newbie questions

hegiton — 2008-09-18T01:28:37+00:00

I have a couple quick newbie questions:

Q1: I did not see this explicitly stated in the rules, but it appears to be implied: Is a player only allowed one rescue attempt per turn?

Q2: When a lost soul that was placed in a site is rescued, is the site discarded?

Thanks.

Thread: Re: Review: Not many redeeming qualities for this Christian CCG

The Schaef — 2008-09-16T15:32:22+00:00

The game does not depict Heroes saving Lost Souls any more than people in real life "save" other people. Christian doctrine is that people are called to actively lead others to a saving knowledge but that God is the administer of grace. The Heroes are engaged in the metaphorical spiritual battle in the game, but that is not the same thing as their being directly responsible for salvation.

Much of the game play seems to depend on when Lost Souls are drawn, and furthermore much of it is about pumping up characters with bonuses.

This is grossly understating the way the game is played, and seems to be the kind of conclusion one might arrive at if playing only with the Second or Third Edition starter decks. These decks are watered down considerably to allow ease of entry. The 10th Anniversary starter deck has a sort of "greatest hits" compilation of cards from several different sets, contains most of the different kinds of special abilities that appear in the game, and has loose but distinct thematic material among the brigades. And as Tim has mentioned, sets produced over the last five years have focused more strongly along several different lines:
- thematic representation within brigades (developing existing lines)
- increasing the strength of secondary and tertiary strategies
- increasing the usability of older cards to pull them out of the obsolescence of First Edition design

I won't go into detail about all the different kinds of viable decks that exist in the current meta, but I think that if the readers and writers are aware of the premise that Heroes battle Evil Characters for the fate of Lost Souls, then when I say someone brought a deck with no Heroes at all to this year's national tournament, won 7 of 10 rounds and finished 12th out of about 100 players in that category, the significance of that would not be lost.

Thread: Re: Review: A pictorial evaluation of the cards and components of Redemption CCG

The Schaef — 2008-09-16T15:11:34+00:00

Alexander the Coopersmith is a gross oversight. There is a more recent one regarding the correct spelling of Namaan. I can't say that typos on two cards out of some 2,500 produced constitutes a failure of production standards.

What evidence can you provide that placing the authorship and copyright in Greek was a production error?

I'm also curious as to whether you have any examples that are less than five years old. While the artwork can be hit-or-miss at times, I think if you examine the full body of work, you will find that the "garish" illustrations that you dislike make up a very small percentage of the game, and the use of paintings and historical illustrations a considerably larger percentage.

I don't really have anything regarding your comments on design, as I think those are mostly aesthetic observations. I just don't think that some of these examples are really a good representation of the game.

Thread: Re: Review: Not many redeeming qualities for this Christian CCG

TimMierz — 2008-09-16T13:21:42+00:00

As a long-time player of Redemption, let me try to assure you that it's not quite what it seems. I won't speak to the issues you have with the aesthetic qualities of the cards; I have never had difficulty using the cards because of the layout decisions that were made, and quality of artwork is highly subjective. I'll just leave that up to personal preference.

The starter decks, which seem to be your only experience with the game, are meant primarily to give an introduction to the basic flow of the game and to be comfortable with the fundamental mechanics. But even in the G/H decks (the most recent starter decks; it looks like you have older E/F starters from your pictures), comparing the numbers on the cards takes a back seat to the special abilities on cards. The decks seen in tournament play contain far more complexity in card/ability interaction. There is delicate balance in the main classes of abilities - normal actions, protection, negation, and "can't be negated" actions - that bring a wonderful flavor to the game once the player moves on from the starters. The game continues to evolve with each set that comes out. While at the game's inception it played more like you describe - an exercise in "counting" - with each set new interesting features came out.

One thing you are upset about in the other article, that brigades' themes are loosely defined, both is and is not an issue. In sets from the last several years, the new cards closely follow themes. For instance, the Blue brigade has been receiving cards exclusively from the book of Genesis, especially focusing on Jacob and his sons. These cards have great interaction with each other, and can work together very tightly for a theme deck. Starting with the Priests expansion, the Teal brigade contains exclusively priests and priestly enhancements, and the Orange brigade has the game's demons. Some brigades have multiple themes. The Gray brigade has Roman emperors, Syrian kings and commanders, and Pharisees. A diverse group to be sure, but each theme is built on separately, and can be used with success. Earlier in the game's timeline (and you can see this in the rulebook), the brigades' themes were defined by relevant verses. For instance, from the rulebook:
"Red is descriptive of military might.
Nahum 2:3 ‘The shield of his mighty men is made red, the valiant men are in scarlet: the chariots shall be with flaming torches in the day of his preparation, and the fir trees shall be terribly shaken.’"
It is true, though, that not all cards fit these themes. Sometimes the answer is reprinting cards in later sets into a proper theme. All of the priests in the game were reprinted in the aforementioned Priests expansion into Teal brigade, to strengthen that theme. Indeed, some, like Melchizedek, have two brigades to show that they belong to two themes (purple and teal, signifying he was a king and a priest). The two most recent sets, tin sets called Faith of our Fathers and Rock of Ages, have predefined sets of cards that are focused on one good theme and one evil theme. If that is a concern for you, I urge you to look into those. If you are interested in looking into the strategy and themes of Redemption, the official Cactus Game Design message board has a great community of people who love discussing just that.

I personally do not find the cards in any way sacreligious or offensive to the Christian faith. The creator of the game, Rob Anderson, is quite active in the Redemption community and makes his strong faith and Christian devotion well known in his words and his actions. I know for certain that he holds very highly the Scriptures and all therein, and he would certainly not cheapen them. If you personally do take offense to that, I can say nothing to that, but on a personal note, the cards have helped me learn and remember many Biblical events and people, and have led me into some interesting searches into the Bible.

I see that you've already gotten rid of most of your cards. There are (free, easy) ways to play online with a number of other people who are more than willing to get you up and running if you so wish. The community is a generous one, if you later find that you do want to get back into the game. I'm glad that you've taken time to look into it, and I hope that I've helped in some way.

Tim M

Thread: Re: Review: A pictorial evaluation of the cards and components of Redemption CCG

HamsterOfFury — 2008-09-16T07:07:00+00:00

Jesus, the Son of God, also referred to himself as the Son of Man.

But theologically speaking the cards were most likely lazy translation.

I also don't like the graphic design. Good review.

Thread: Re: Review: Not many redeeming qualities for this Christian CCG

theggman — 2008-09-15T23:32:03+00:00

Thanks for addressing the Christian gamer in your article. I see a lot of negative themes and elements seeping into boardgames, just like any other medium. We can make our voices heard by not buying certain games or letting publishers know we object to their content. Thanks for standing up for what you know is right! I bought Redemption but haven't played it yet. I also got rid of many objectional cards from my Magic the Gathering set. It's a shame they had to darken suc a fun game.

theggman

Thread: Review: A pictorial evaluation of the cards and components of Redemption CCG

EndersGame — 2008-09-15T21:30:37+00:00

Preamble: I have already posted a more detailed review about the overall game and gameplay of Redemption CCG. The purpose of this review is to closely evaluate the quality of the cards and components of the game.

The artwork

Some of the artwork for the game cards seems to have been taken from older royalty free images that are published elsewhere. I have a children's Bible entitled The Bible in Pictures for Little Eyes by Kenneth N. Taylor, and was surprised to discover that some of the artwork from the book matched the artwork on the game cards from Redemption CCG. It has to be admitted, mind you, that some of these pictures feature lovely paintings. Here's a short walking tour of the first chapters of the Bible, using the Redemption CCG cards and the original artwork pictured in Kenneth N. Taylor's book:

Creation

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The Fall

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The Tower of Babel

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I could give more examples, but I'll give one final illustration, showing some of the cards relating to The Flood:

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It's not all so pretty, however. Here we see a comparison between the 2nd and 3rd edition of the same card (Angel of the Lord), where the artwork has been replaced with more cartoony and garish looking artwork from Eternal Studios, Inc. I personally don't care for this newer style at all, and unfortunately this cartoonish style is evident on quite a number of other cards as well.

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The icons

The cards feature different icons to indicate whether cards are Hero Characters (cross icon), Hero Enchancements (book icon), Dominants (lamb), artifacts (gold cup), and so on:

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The background colours for the Hero Character and Evil Character icons indicate the brigade that they belong to. Quite frankly, I find the different styles of icons rather inconsistent with one another, and the colour scheme rather frightful. A simpler and much more straight forward scheme should have been used, especially since the icons and colours are such an important part of the game.

The brigades

The Hero Characters and Evil Characters are arranged into different brigades, according to theme and color. The concept is a great one in theory, but the implementation is terrible:

1. The theme of the different brigades is often not very apparent. In some instances, it is very obvious, such as the Seven Seals from the book of Revelation:

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But in most instances, there seems to be no obvious rhyme or reason why cards are collected together in a single brigade. Consider, for example, these red brigade power enhancement cards, which seem to have little or no real connection with one another:

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2. The color of the brigades is very confusing: it would have made more sense to match the background panels of the cards, rather than the background panels of the icons. Consider, for example, the following selection of cards:

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They seem to be in a similar style, and seem to be from the same set or brigade, right? Wrong! Even though the background panels are all the same colour, the background color of the icons indicate that they all come from different brigades. On the other hand, this assortment of different coloured cards all come from the same brigade:

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To me, this makes no sense. Why not have cards from the same brigade all have the same background colour panels, so they at least look like they come from the same brigade, rather than a mishmash of colours?

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In my view, this is just poor design.

Special power texts

The text of special powers and abilities is written directly over the artwork, as follows:

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Once again, this is just poor design, and looks ugly. It would have been much more aesthetically pleasing to have the special text in separate panels, as most other CCGs do.

The Bible texts

The Bible texts on the bottom of the card are quoted from the King James Version.

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I suspect that the reason for doing this is because the KJV is one of the few royalty free translations that could be used without adding any further expense to the cost of the game.

Typographical errors

There are some typographical errors on the cards. Here's a glaring one:

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Coopersmith (as the name of the card suggests), or Coppersmith (as the text on the card suggests) - now which is it? Clearly the name of the card is wrong. But how could this have been missed by quality control? An obvious inconsistency like this surely has to be the result of poor production standards.

Translation errors

From time to time, special cards were released as Promo cards, or for special purposes. Here's a very clever attempt at including a card with New Testament Greek:

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The idea is great, but the execution is awful. The cards appear to be identical, and they use the same image, and they also use exactly the same text (Revelation 1:12-13 in English, and in Greek). But strangely, the English card is called "Son of God", whereas the Greek card is called "Son of Man"! (huion anthropou, which is Greek for "Son of Man", and admittedly appears in the text quoted). But there are more issues here: the Greek used is a very poor font, without any breathings or accents. Moreover, notice how the name of the illustrator and copyright information at the bottom of the card are mistakenly in the same Greek font instead of English. One again, evidence of apparently poor production quality.

Conclusion

By now it will probably be more than apparent that I'm not a fan of this game. I haven't even touched on the theological issues raised by the artwork, such as the potential for trivializing the Bible, which I addressed more fully in my overall review of the game.

In the end, however, you shouldn't just go by my opinion, but make up your own mind based on what you see. I think the evidence speaks for itself: despite many good elements, in the final analysis the components of Redemption CCG are a disappointment.

Thread: Review: Not many redeeming qualities for this Christian CCG

EndersGame — 2008-09-15T20:46:46+00:00

Background

Collectible Card Games (CCG) have made a huge impact on the gaming market, especially after the remarkable success of the grand-daddy of them all - Magic: The Gathering CCG. It was only a matter of time before a Christian themed CCG was developed. In fact, Redemption CCG was part of the first generation of CCGs that hit the market in 1995 when the genre was still being defined. Designed by Rob Anderson and published by Cactus Game Design, it sought to put a Christian spin on the CCG model, by featuring game cards based on Biblical characters, locations and events.

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But does this model work?

NB: Since this particular product will almost exclusively be of interest to Christians only, I will be primarily directing this review to a predominantly Christian audience that might be considering whether this game is for them.

Gameplay

The main object of the game is to rescue Lost Souls from your opponent's Land of Bondage. Each player has their own deck of cards, from which they play the Hero Characters who will try to rescue these Lost Souls, as well as Evil Characters to defend their own Lost Souls. Enhancement cards modify the strength of these characters in combat, and the cards are arranged by colour in different "brigades". There are other cards, like Sites, Fortresses, Artifacts, and Dominants, but these merely flesh out the basic mechanics of the key cards already mentioned.

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Two reference cards included with the game nicely summarize how cards are arranged and played on the battlefield:

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Strengths

1. I appreciate an attempt to cater to the Christian market, and an effort to create a collectible card game with positive themes. Despite the popularity of the more successful CCGs like Magic the Gathering, many of these CCGs have certain aspects that might prove problematic for Christian families, such as the darker elements of some fantasy themes. Redemption CCG avoids this, and is an attempt to provide an alternative.

2. Incorporating texts from the Bible on each card is a real positive.

3. It is cheaper than most other popular CCGs.

Weaknesses

1. The attempt to incorporate Christian themes comes with many pitfalls, because there is always the potential to mishandle Biblical truth or deal with it inappropriately. Sadly, in my estimation, that has become the fate of Redemption CCG. While an effort to bring Biblical characters and events to playing cards is in itself laudable, it has the potential to trivialize the Bible. This creates some theological problems, for example, the whole notion of having Heroes rescue Lost Souls is problematic - doesn't the Bible teach that redemption is the work of God rather than human heroes? Moreover, is it Biblically accurate to suggest that Evil Characters like Job's Wife play a role in seeking to prevent such Lost Souls from being rescued? In instances like this, the theme seems to break down, and worse, become disrespectful. I especially can't see how turning concepts like "Son of God" into a game card is compatible with being respectful. In many instances the artwork only compounds this problem.

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I realize that there will be Christians who have a different perspective on this, but it is certainly something to be aware of and consider carefully before getting into this game.

2. The gameplay is inferior to most other popular CCGs. To compare with Magic the Gathering, for example: Redemption CCG is considerably less complex, which has the advantage of making it more accessible to children. However, it is also significantly less strategic, tactical, and satisfying. Much of the game play seems to depend on when Lost Souls are drawn, and furthermore much of it is about pumping up characters with bonuses. As someone else has said rather eloquently: This is the kind of game for people who think that Giant Growth is the best card in Magic.

3. Redemption CCG has some serious weaknesses with components, which I have illustrated in a separate review here:
"A pictorial evaluation of the cards and components of Redemption CCG"
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/340846

Recommendation

In the end, I had to conclude that the negatives more than outweighed the positives. If you find yourself sharing my concerns listed above, you'd do well to give Redemption CCG a miss. While attempts to create products that are uniquely Christian are laudable, they are not always successful, and this is a good example (although it has to be admitted that it does seem to be successful in some Christian circles). What did I do with my Redemption CCG cards? I gave some away, and some of the less objectionable ones are being used by my family as bookmarks.

Alternatives

Fortunately, Christians do have other options. One possibility to consider is to take a game such as Magic the Gathering, and remove all the thematically problematic cards. In my own family, this is my own solution, and I simply play without all the black cards, as well as a few other incidental cards that might be regarded as objectionable. But even if this isn't a choice you could make, there are many other wholesome games to choose from that don't necessarily have a Christian theme, but give families the opportunity to have an enjoyable gaming session together, and still offer good quality gameplay.

Concluding thoughts about Christians and gaming

In the end, the elements that make gaming a positive activity for Christian families and groups have little to do with the theme (although there might be games that have to be excluded from play by virtue of their theme alone). For the most part, a Christian approach to games is mostly about the spirit in which it is played, the lessons that are learned from it, and the place that it has in one's life. Perhaps this could be considered a "redeemed" approach to boardgames, when they are played to God's glory and for our neighbour's good. For me and my family, such a Redemption of boardgames will be more sucessful when playing something like Settlers of Catan, than Redemption CCG.

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EndersGame — 2008-09-09T13:15:46+00:00

The Flood: original artwork and card (#3)

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EndersGame — 2008-09-09T13:15:18+00:00

The Flood: original artwork and card (#2)

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EndersGame — 2008-09-09T13:14:52+00:00

The Flood: original artwork and card (#1)

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EndersGame — 2008-09-09T13:13:36+00:00

English and Greek texts of the same card

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EndersGame — 2008-09-09T13:12:45+00:00

The most powerful card in the game

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EndersGame — 2008-09-09T05:03:18+00:00

Same card, different colours (comparing 2nd and 3rd editions)

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EndersGame — 2008-09-09T05:02:54+00:00

Same card, different artwork (comparing 2nd and 3rd editions)

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EndersGame — 2008-09-09T05:01:44+00:00

Red brigade power enhancement cards (cropped to show names only)

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EndersGame — 2008-09-09T04:59:14+00:00

Tower of Babel: game card & original artwork (The Bible in Pictures for Little Eyes by Kenneth N. Taylor)

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EndersGame — 2008-09-09T04:28:17+00:00

The Fall: game card & original artwork

Thread: Re: Comprehensive review

Aetheros — 2008-05-26T18:25:37+00:00

wargamer55 wrote:
There were at least two dozen different collectible cards games mention in the 1995 Origins convention booklet, which was really the year that the floodgates opened for the genre of games.
...
No, the sole survivor from the erstwhile Magic competitors is Redemption, a Bible-based collectible card game that borrows little from Magic: The Gathering but the collectible concept itself.

This is your second CCG review (that I've stumbled on) that references the deluge of CCGs in the 1995 Origins program. I was interested to verify the dead (for instance Legend of the Five Rings is still going strong), but couldn't find the program online. Is it available online?

Thread: Re: Comprehensive review

wargamer55 — 2008-05-26T17:03:28+00:00

Hendal wrote:
I hate the idea of collectable, but my wife wants a nice Bible based game and I think this is the winner, I will be looking into this one, thanks for the review.

Game On'

While marketed as a collectible game, Redemption isn't overwhelming in that regard. There's no real killer combos and the pace of expansions is much more relaxed. Redemption expansions seems to come out once every couple of years, instead of M:TG's quarterly schedule.

Thread: Re: Comprehensive review

Hendal — 2008-05-26T12:18:29+00:00

I hate the idea of collectable, but my wife wants a nice Bible based game and I think this is the winner, I will be looking into this one, thanks for the review.

Game On'

Thread: Comprehensive review

wargamer55 — 2008-05-26T01:53:46+00:00

There were at least two dozen different collectible cards games mention in the 1995 Origins convention booklet, which was really the year that the floodgates opened for the genre of games. In 1993 Magic: The Gathering was unique, but it didn't take long for others to see the idea's potential.

But besides having many imitators, M:TG never really found a rival, as it's still by far the Top Dog among collectible games. Of the two dozen of the Class of 1995 almost all have disappeared, save for occasional sales on eBay. It's true that one can still get original Dixie cards from Columbia Games, but considering that all these appear to come from the original 1995 stock, one can hardly say it's a living game with active players and recent expansions. Magic: The Gathering's Richard Garfield also had Jyhad, now called Vampire: The Eternal Struggle out in 1995.

No, the sole survivor from the erstwhile Magic competitors is Redemption, a Bible-based collectible card game that borrows little from Magic: The Gathering but the collectible concept itself. Yet it still ha expansions and active players, albeit mostly invisible to the larger gaming community. This is because it's popularity is mostly confined to a sort of parallel culture in America that the wider secular culture doesn't see.

That more religious subculture largely attends its own schools (when not home schooled) has its own pop music groups, own literature and magazines, television programs and movies. Finding many questionable elements in popular media and entertainment, but wanting to experience the positive elements, this largely-Protestant evangelical (but with sympathizers among other religious traditions as well) has learned how to develop its own entertainments that avoid the gratuitous objectionable elements while keeping the better parts from their perspective.

Part of this is their own games. Some popular family games such as Monopoly and Scrabble or abstract games like Chess or Dominoes pose few problems from their perspective. Some other games have been adapted to present a more explicitly Biblical flavor, perhaps the most famous of these is the Settlers of Canaan.

Many people from this belief system are, however, very hostile to anything that smacks of the occult or magic and witchcraft. Protestations that it's "just a game" don't find a receptive ear. Like Dungeons & Dragons before it, the explicitly magical elements evoked in Magic: The Gathering, while directly responsible for its popularity in the mainstream culture, brought condemnation and concern from many more religiously inclined people.

Wanting to provide a similar game experience to Magic: The Gathering, without all the magic stuff, Redemption designer Rob Anderson turned to the Bible for his theme, and discovered that there was a remarkably rich source that also included heroes, demons and yes, even dragons.

Redemption is a somewhat simpler game than Magic_The Gathering, although not a simplistic one. The basic idea is that each player competes to save the most "Lost Souls," which are special cards. Every 50-card deck must have at least 7 Lost Souls in it. When one appears it's placed in front of the player in an area called the "Land of Bondage." From there an opposing player can mount a rescue attempt during his turn by sending a hero card from his hand or already revealed in play. The defending player can attempt to thwart the rescue attempt by opposing it with one of his Evil Characters. Each player can add enhancements, with both sides comparing their respective attack and defense strengths. The higher number defeats the lower and sends the loser to the discard pile along with all the enhancements played by both sides. If the Hero wins, then the Lost Soul is rescued. The first to rescue five Lost Souls Win.

Heroes and Evil Characters each belong to one of six color-coded "Brigades" and can only be enhanced by cards that match the same color. As always in CCGs, of course, there are various cards that override the basic rules.

Unlike many games this scales well from two up to about five without any changes in the rules.

An example of a rescue attempt might play out as follows.

Player 1 sends the Biblical figure Ruth (from the White Brigade) on a rescue mission to save a Lost Soul in Player 2's Land of Bondage. Ruth is one of the weaker heroes, rated a 4/4 which means she attacks with a strength of 4 and defends with the same strength.

Player 2 responds by blocking the move with the Evil Character Pharaoh from the Yellow Brigade. Like many EC's he's stronger than some heroes with a rating of 6/6, so he's winning.

Player 1 would like to use the 3/3 "Strength" enhancement card, but it only works on Blue Brigade Heroes, so instead Player 1 plays The Purity of Enoch (2/2) and the Devotion of Ruth (1/1). The Devotion of Ruth is not only a white card, but the name of the card matches the Hero, so it's doubled to a 2/2. Its special ability of allowing the Hero to Ignore Gray Brigade Evil Characters doesn't apply in this case because the Pharaoh is Yellow.

At this point Ruth is winning at 8/8 vs. Pharaoh's 6/6 so Player 2 plays Grief (2/2) and the Stone of Thebez (2/2) to take the lead with 10/10.

Being behind again, Player 1 now plays the multi-color Pillar of a Cloud (2/2) which can be played on a hero from any brigade, bringing Ruth up to a 10/10. Player 2 has no more suitable cards to play in response, so the battle is resolved. Normally a tie would Result in both Pharaoh and Ruth being killed and discarded, although Ruth would still succeed in rescuing the Lost Soul as the rules state that "Any Hero is willing to lay down his or her life to rescue a Lost Soul." Fortunately for Ruth, however, the Pillar of a Cloud card also provides the benefit of a "first strike" ability for Ruth, so Pharaoh is defeated and discarded along with all his enhancements. Player 1 discards his enhancements but returns Ruth to his side of the table for possible use later and puts the rescued Lost Soul in the "Land of Redemption."

Besides the regular heroes and evil characters and their enhancements, there are some super powerful cards (Grim Reapers and Lambs) that a player can have just one example of in his deck.

Later expansion add more kinds of cards and powers, but the basic scheme of play remains the same.

The quality of the cards is very high, with first-class and appropriate art. Every card also contains a Biblical reference. For example, the powerful 10/10 Brown Brigade Evil Character the Beast From The Earth contains the quote from Revelation 13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

All in all, Redemption succeeds admirably in its goal. It provides a good game experience while remaining true to the sensitivities of its target audience. Yet it's not heavy handed at all in its approach, and players who don't share the same concerns about occult images in their games can find Redemption a worthwhile addition to their collection. Being Bible-literate is of value even in secular society, and Redemption provides some surprising material for interesting discussion during and after the game. When your Faithful Servant (Matthew 25:21) faces the Stone Throwers (John 8:7) there's a teachable moment at hand.

From my gaming blog at http://pawnderings.blogspot.com

Thread: Re: Teaching Redemption CCG

Hendal — 2008-05-08T00:29:17+00:00

Thanks for sharing, I want to get this one for the wife and I to play.

My motto is

No Bad Days
Just Bad People

Kinda like Mean People Suck

Thread: Re: Where in the world to begin?

The Schaef — 2008-04-02T15:48:25+00:00

E/F are not "themed" in the way that G/H are. There are brigade colors specific to each one, and as Josiah said, they are balanced one against the other. But they're not a Moses/Sadducee deck like G or a John/Egyptian deck like H.

E/F have many cards with simple or no special abilities, so it's easier to learn the basic mechanics of the game.

G/H is a "best of" collection from various Redemption sets, and nearly every type of special ability is on at least one card. So the learning curve is considerably steeper, but when you come out on the other side, you will have a taste of just about everything there is to see.

Now the problem is that because E/F are simpler decks, they're not going to hold up as well against G/H. Yes, you can still win but it's an uphill battle.

The starter decks themselves are all you need to begin playing. Each box comes with two decks that you can open up, shuffle, and deal right now.

The 10th Anniversary tins come with a large tin for holding your cards, and 6 rare/ultra-rare cards from I think the Apostles and Patriarchs. So it's not a huge boost to your collection but you may pull a few nice cards, and the tin is great. Be warned that if you sleeve your cards, they are not a "perfect" fit any way you stack them.

The Gift Set tins come in smaller tins, with a handful of blue booster backs which contain mostly-useless cards. The upside is that you get New Jerusalem, a Dominant card which is very very powerful.

Without wanting to sound like an advertisement for myself (and therefore I will not link anything), I also put "starter kits" on my website that consist of a starter deck, some boosters, and supplies, for a little more of a push in building your own decks.

Another good way to get a collection rolling is to take part in a tournament featuring Booster Draft. Many booster draft tournaments now feature new tins that have 10 pre-set cards to build a strategy around, and five booster packs from which the players "draft" a card and pass them around to build their decks. You're not as vulnerable to people's finely-tuned ultra-mega-combos as in an open deck category, and you can just stick all your cards in the tin and cart them home afterwards

Hope this helps, don't hesitate to ask any further questions!

Thread: Re: Where in the world to begin?

happyjosiah — 2008-03-08T22:45:21+00:00

E and F play well against each other as do G and H. Playing E against H would work fine, but you would find some cards not very useful. For example, since they are themed, you may have a card that works great against Old Testament Heros and be playing a deck with all New Testament. Eventually, you will just want to make your own deck that is more well rounded and less against one specific other type of deck.

Thread: Re: Where in the world to begin?

ebridge — 2008-03-08T15:37:34+00:00

Wow! Thanks for all of that helpful information! I'm seriously thinking about the E&F and G&H combo. Are E&F "themed" decks like I hear that G&H are? It could make for some good replayability if all the decks play slightly different, sort of like Blue Moon.

Thread: Re: Where in the world to begin?

happyjosiah — 2008-03-08T02:11:11+00:00

Start with Starter Decks. The tin with the Lion is a good place, but any of the starters are good ideas. They will be called E&F or G&H decks. The Faith of Our Fathers Tins are actually a set of 10 different pre-constructed tins (you get the same cards in every Tin IV, for example). These are a good way to build a deck once you have selected a color you like. Picking up the starter decks and all the faith of our fathers tins is a good starting point. Beyond that, I would advise buying Priests packs, as it is easily the best set to come out in years. Almost every card, even the commons, could make it into a competitive deck, meaning the most bang for your buck. Start there, and then move on. Early sets are much cheaper, but that is because most of the cards are completely worthless. In the blue packs (limited/unlimited), only the Rare card is ever played these days, and not even the majority of the rares are very useful. Prophets was not much better. Women and Warriors are both good, but also both out of print. Apostles has great Rares and Ultra Rares, but really lousy commons and uncommons. Patriarchs is almost the opposite, having some very playable commons and uncommons, but fairly useless Ultra Rares. Kings is a solid set as well, and should probably be the next set after Priests to get a hold of. Many of these cards are reprints from the Warriors set. The Angel Wars set is probably the worst set in recent history, in terms of gameplay, art, and theme, but is still a darn sight better than the Limited/Unlimited and Prophets packs. I would recommend you go to some tournaments in your area as well. You can pick up stacks of unwanted commons and uncommons from generous players in your area, and you also get a promo card just for attending (and this is the only way to get these special cards).
You will definitely want decks better constructed than a complete random deal. It is necessary for enhancement colors to match characters to be played. Also, you win by rescuing the Lost Souls your opponent draws, so you could possibly never win if your opponent was not dealt any lost souls. The deck building rules are pretty important, and unfortunately a bit more complicated than most other CCGs.

Thread: Where in the world to begin?

ebridge — 2008-03-07T15:47:34+00:00

Hi there,

My wife and I want to learn this game and play with it with at least one other Christian couple. But I am absolutely lost with knowing what to buy so that 4 players can just pick up the game and start playing a friendly game. Do I get the "older" stuff? Do I get one or more of the new "tins" that have come out? If I get tins, there is one with a lion/angel on it, a 10th anniversary edition, and now a "faith of our fathers" tin. There is even a complete set available from Cactus games for $150, which includes everything up through Warriors. I am very confused. Please advise what would be best for Casual play with friends.

Also, if we had 200 cards, is it not possible to just randomly deal out 50 cards to each person and start playing? Or do the decks need to be better constructed than that?

Thread: Re: General (and very basic) deck construction strategies?

The Schaef — 2007-04-09T13:13:37+00:00

There are a couple other card games from 1995 that are still around, yes, but without getting into a big nitpicking session about which game was released at which convention, I think we can both agree on two main points:

1). Magic is the one game still in publication (as opposed to games like Spellfire or Illuminati) that is genuinely older

2). The overwhelming majority of that first generation of CCGs went under after the market became saturated and collapsed

And even if you want to contest those points, how much is it really going to take away from the driving force behind the initial comment, that the game has longevity in a market consisting mostly of franchise cash-ins that fade into obscurity after six months?

Thread: Re: Redempton - Really needs some work...

darcyj2 — 2007-03-28T03:22:15+00:00

Interesting evaluation...with no details on why your ratings were what they were. I'd be interested in some explanations if you care to give any.

DJ

Thread: Re: General (and very basic) deck construction strategies?

Rokkr — 2007-03-25T02:59:12+00:00

w0rf wrote:
It's not without its flaws, but it's lasted longer than every other CCG not named Magic, and there's a reason for that.
I think you're forgetting Vampire, Shadowfist and L5R. I'm not sure of the exact chronology, but all those are in the same ballpark as Redemption in how long they've been around.
Vampire, and to a lesser extent L5R maintain a healthy market presence.

Thread: Re: General (and very basic) deck construction strategies?

w0rf — 2007-03-25T02:41:42+00:00

The best place to start is with starter decks, particularly the 10th Anniversary, and then augment them with cards consistent with their themes. One of those decks has Old Testament Heroes in green and gold focusing on the Exodus, and New Testament Evil Characters in black and crimson that focus on negating and/or discarding. The other deck has New Testament Heroes in white and purple that focus on converting characters from evil to good, and Old Testament Evil Characters in gold and brown that focus on stalling out the other player.

Another place that might be worth your time is a site that I maintain called Holder's Heroes, which features articles on strategy and deck-building by veteran players from all over the country. It has all levels of play covered from basic to expert, but you should be able to filter it down a bit and get some ideas to get you started. The site is located at: http://www.holdersheroes.com.

Another possibility might be to download the Redemption Table Simulator, at http://rts.captainofthehost.com, and use it as a learning tool. It allows players to play Redemption online with a graphic interface tool that is fairly intuitive. You might be able to talk some people into playing learning games with you, to show you some of the cool things you can do. I might even be able to assist you in that regard, though I am seldom home and therefore probably not much help.

I hope these get you started on the right track. I just finished hosting an all-day tournament where pretty much everyone took the time to tell me how much they enjoyed playing today. I'd like for you to get a similar level of enjoyment out of the game. It's not without its flaws, but it's lasted longer than every other CCG not named Magic, and there's a reason for that.

Thread: Re: General (and very basic) deck construction strategies?

KingArv — 2007-03-23T18:51:24+00:00

Tim,
A better place to ask this question would be at the official Redemption forums.

check out the link:
http://cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php

Redemption, IMO is one of the best CCG games ever created, and with even more cards and sets being created, there really are incredible possibilities for decks and such.

KingArv

Thread: General (and very basic) deck construction strategies?

hobbes2888 — 2007-03-23T18:00:10+00:00

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone could give me any hints on very basic and general deck construction strategies?

I'm not talking about combos or powerful characters - I'm just wondering basically how to make a few playable decks from a pile of cards?

I remember vaguely that with Magic: The Gathering, one could just throw all the green and white cards together and have a playable deck.

It seems that the card borders in Redemption don't mean anything, rather the brigade colours (backgrounds in the upper-left square) indicate good combinations to keep together. Would that be accurate?

Thanks!

Tim

Thread: Redempton - Really needs some work...

lothlorian — 2007-03-23T09:22:09+00:00

To quote the motive and reasoning behind this game, the designer (Rob Anderson) states...

...many of the games (concerning CG's) available had dark and horrific themes. The question in my mind at the time (July of 94) was whether or not I would be comfortable with my children playing a game with such artwork and themes. My answer was no. You see, my wife and I both have made a commitment to raise our children in the love and admonition of the Lord. Much of what is offered in the collectible trading card game market is difficult to reconcile with the Christian faith....

Now that aside I will rate this game in several areas. I used to own and sell this product (when I ran a bookstore in Australia), but there was no way it could compete with better designed and better illustrated cards.

My reviews give Smilies Awards among 8 degrees which range from...(hereafter called the Lothlorian Rating System - LRS)

"Go read a good book - your money and imagination deserves better!"
"If you do buy this you will probably be dissapointed!"
"OK - But really needs improvement"
"OK - but only just!"
"Good aspects"
"Nice feature here!"
"This aspect will make you smile and you'll be glad you have this on your shelf"
"Stop everything and buy this game - if you have money left over then buy food and books!"

This review will enable you to ascertain very quickly if it is a product worth pursuing, rather than reading through paragraphs of text...

Lothlorian Rating System:

Product: Redemption CCG

Mechanics: CCG, Deckbuilding, Pre-Game Strategy

Originality and Innovation:
Freshness and Replayability:
Surprise Factor:
Pre Game Buildup:
Post Game Analaysis:

Equal Opportunity and Balance:
Winning Chances:
No early Elimination:
Wait Times for your Turn:

Uniformity:
Quality of Components:
Artwork and Aesthetics: - there is some decent artwork, but a lot of bad artwork!
Target Groups and Consistency of Rules:
Clarity of Rules:
Layout and Design of Rules:
Examples of Play in Rules:

Tension and Expectation: Low
Tactics and Strategy: Low to Medium - it improved with the later editions
Complexity and influence: Low
Luck Factor: Medium - High - it is a CCG and depends on the draw.

>>>-----------------------------------<<<
Overall Impressions:
Value for Money: - Maybe the collector in you may like some aspects...

The Final Word: "It appears to be a niche game targetting a niche market. The motive for the design seems to be more reactive rather than proactive. I wanted this game once, yet when I got it I was quiet dissapointed"

Thread: Re: New Set On The Way!!!

w0rf — 2006-06-22T15:02:15+00:00

Agreed. There are a lot of great new cards in this expansion. It's the most fun I've had with the game since probably the Apostles set.

Thread: New Set On The Way!!!

darcyj2 — 2006-06-13T13:45:45+00:00

If you haven't taken a look at Redemption CCG, or if you have set it down for a while, this fall is the time to pick it back up! As you may or may not know, the 10th Anniversary Starter Decks were released last year. Coming between July & September (depends on all the card-printing variables) will be the 9th expansion of Redemption CCG. The set is the Priests, and along with the set, there is quite a bit of cleaning up the current ruleset. This set has it all with a new card type and 2 new brigades! If you want more information, I will not spoil it here. Check out www.cactusgamedesign.com for more details! If you don't want the spoils, just know that the set will be awesome!

Hope you'll check it out!

DJ

PS...Cactus Game Design's website also has a few of the cards from the set shown with more preview cards to come!

Thread: Re: Would you recommend this game for a newbie?

Kharnik — 2006-05-19T23:59:15+00:00

I played MTG for 10 years and am new to Redemption, so take my comments with a grain of salt...

I bought this game because it seemed like a good collectible card game to start my son with.

The things I like the most about Redemption are:

-Teaches my son bible verses and concepts in a very fun way
-Unlike other CCGs, they don't publish several sets a year forcing to spend a fortune to keep up. They publish a fairly small set every few years or so.
- The rules are easy to master, but you can be challenged by strategic possibilities for years...
- There are very few power cards.... and most of them are in one set which you can get by buying the factory set directly from Cactus Games. This set has all the older cards.
- You can buy some boosters for $1

Thread: Re: I'll trade for a "Lydia" or a "John" or "John the Baptist" card!

w0rf — 2006-01-26T16:51:19+00:00

While getting free cards from Chris is certainly a better deal, I feel I should point out that both Lydia and John are included in the new starter decks, so they are very easy to obtain

Your kids should be so lucky. My namesake card (Stephen) is harder to come by and has very little practical use.

Thread: Re: Would you recommend this game for a newbie?

w0rf — 2006-01-26T16:30:45+00:00

I'm kind of late to the party here, but I can vouch for the fact that Redemption has improved considerably over the last few years.

Yes, it can also take time to build up a genuinely competitive deck of one or two specific colors, but cards are relatively inexpensive, and unlike many comparable CCGs, cards are not always rarified or priced based on their strength. Some of the most powerful cards in the game are in fact quite common in their printings. The game has even implemented "booster draft" play into sanctioned tournaments as an alternative to sealed-deck play.

Also, there are an increasing number of cards that take effect outside the main battle phase of the turn, or impact areas of the game not directly related to the battle, and while the brigades generally have a little bit of everything, many of them are still skewed towards one theme or another, red for example being a strong offense deck, white relying on ignores and protection, gray being strong in capture, etc. Historical cultures of the Bible are also gaining ground as thematic elements.

I can't speak to the cheese element, as that is subjective, but having played other various Bible-themed games over time, I have to say that compared at least to those, this is a marked improvement. Whether it's comparable to the other games you're considering is up to you.

Unfortunately, I've not played the other CCGs so I can't make comparative statements, and I don't think it would be fair of me not to make that clear, when saying that I think Redemption is a very good game and with the right amount of work can be a great game.

Thread: Teaching Redemption CCG

darcyj2 — 2005-11-30T14:43:13+00:00

Last night I showed Redemption CCG to some guys in my youth group (I'm the youth pastor), and here is how the one game played went.

One of the guys and I played a single game with the new G/H starter decks. I had told him about the game before, but until last night, he had never had the opportunity to really look at the game. He used to play Yugioh, and he says he was pretty good...but I digress. Within the first couple of draws, I had drawn Golden Calf, a card that really hurts the other deck by basically stopping all the offensive characters in the other deck. Being new to the game, he didn't realize how tough this would make the game. I quickly rescued a Lost Soul and took the lead, 1-0 (in the race to 5).

After a few battles in which he had the chance to see some of the nicer cards in both decks, I had beaten several of his best characters, and one of my best characters was getting better having been set aside for some big growth. When the dust settled, I was now up 3-1 (he had used Son of God to get that one rescue).

Now, it was his turn to deal some damage to my defense. After a couple of Rescue Attempts on both sides, we leveled out at 3-4, and I had one card left in my deck. I knew that card was Son of God (allows me to rescue any Lost Soul in play), and I had Angel of the Lord (discard any evil character) in my hand for the next battle. I told him that he better get one more rescue if he could, which he promptly did in rather strong fashion. I then drew my last card and decided to attempt to win by battle, rather than by Son of God. I attacked, and he defended. We both played a couple of enhancements, and I finally had to play Angel of the Lord to win the battle. However, he only had one Lost Soul available for rescue, and he played Burial (discard any Lost Soul in play) on that one Lost Soul. Since I couldn't win one in battle, I dropped Son of God to rescue my 5th Lost Soul out of my own Land of Bondage.

All in all, he seemed to like the game, and I think I may see him at some upcoming tournaments just checking things out further. We've got a youth activity in December, and he wants me to bring the cards in case we get another chance to play.

He explained that the game was much easier to grasp than he originally thought, and I explained to him that strategies do get much more complicated with cards other than starter deck cards but that the basic concepts of the game are as easy to comprehend as he now realized. He asked if he could hang on to a rulebook, and I gladly gave him one (I've got more than my fair share). I hope I've picked up another player, but only time will tell.

Thanks for reading.

DJ

Thread: Local Tournament in Lexington, NC

darcyj2 — 2005-10-02T02:40:08+00:00

Today I hosted one of many Redemption CCG tournaments. I try to have at least one every 4-6 weeks. This one was the smallest of Redemption CCG tournaments, a Local Tournament.

Types of Play: Type 1, 2-Player; Type 2, 2-Player; Sealed, 2-Player
Number of Players: 12 (myself included although I did not play)

Summary of Events:
Type 1, 2-Player = We had a total of 7 players signed up for this category, and since the simultaneous category (Type 2, 2-Player) was going to go long, we decided to have a marathon 5 games! For this size tournament, that's a lot of Swiss-Style play. The winning deck was an Attack Deck (or Defenseless Deck) that simply was quicker than it's competitors. We had a fairly young group with only a couple of our "seasoned" players in attendance. The winning deck went 5-0.
Type 2, 2-Player = These are naturally the larger decks as minimum deck size is 100 cards. However, one of the 3 players took the extreme with a 271-card deck! This is literally the largest deck I've seen played at any tournament level for Redemption CCG (including 3 Nationals Tournaments and numerous Regional and State tournaments that I've attended or hosted). I've only toyed with a 203-card deck personally. That deck was a mixture of that player's favorite strategies, basically taking 2 Type 2 decks, combining them, and making the single deck legal. Believe it or not...with a couple of great draws, that deck won going 1-0-1 with one bye.
Sealed, 2-Player = This is the typical CCG Sealed category, where the players get a starter deck and several booster packs with which to build a deck. There aren't any real surprises here with quick games and relatively easy gameplay. The winning deck went 3-0.

All 1st place finishers received the normal Local Tournament prizes, including 2 Booster Packs and a Chariot of Fire Promo card. 2nd place finishers received a single Booster Pack for their efforts.

Altogether, this was a nice tournament, and with mostly newer players, it was exciting to see the competition among them. There was only one or two of the stronger players there, so the less experienced ones got to fight it out for the prizes!

After the tournament, some of us turned our attention to RoboRally and Killer Bunnies for a few more hours of fun!

That's it! Thanks for reading!
DJ

Thread: Re: New Review

darcyj2 — 2005-09-16T11:30:29+00:00

Troy...no problem...if you're wanting some starters and/or boosters, check the Marketplace here at BGG. I'll have product up by this afternoon.

Also, once you get them let me know if you have any questions.

darcyj2@triad.rr.com

Blessings,
DJ

Thread: Re: New Review

clandaith — 2005-09-16T02:57:29+00:00

Thank you for the review. I have been eyeing this game for years. It says a lot that the game has been around for so long. I know of no one in my area (Utah) that plays or sells the game, but that is fine since I don't play at stores or shop at them either.

My oldest son is 8 and I'm sure he would love to try this out. Because of your review I think I will pick up a few starters and give it a go.

Again, thanks for the well written and thought out review.

Troy

Thread: 2 Games...one even...and one not...

darcyj2 — 2005-09-16T00:38:10+00:00

Brent (one of my local players) and I got together today for a couple of games of Redemption. We try to get together between tournaments to help him tweak his deck. He's been in the game a little over a year, and he has done fairly well. This gives me a chance to try various things and teach him some things that he might want to watch for in his deck.

Game 1:
We were both using experimental/new decks on this one, and it was relatively close for most of the game. The big difference for him...he drew fewer Lost Soul cards for me to rescue. His deck was a basic Red Offense with a Pale Green capture Defense. He was missing some cards, so proxies were in order. I was playing a multi-color "attack" Offense with a multi-color, demon-banding Defense. The game was relatively uneventful, and Brent won 5-4. It boiled down to my Defense never really getting up and running the way it was supposed to.

Game 2:
This game was much different. I pulled out my 2-Player adaptation of my Multi-Player deck that recently tied for 2nd in Type 1, Multi-Player at our National Tournament. He was using the same deck, because he was trying to tweak it. My deck was another basic "attack" Offense with what I like to call a "Spoiler" Defense, designed to totally annoy and slow down my opponent. My deck worked like a charm. I drew The Strong Angel (big numbers, negate all special abilities) on the first draw along with several dominants including Son of God and New Jerusalem. The game seemed to be stacked in my favor from the word "Go". I didn't draw a lot of Lost Soul cards, and he seemed to always have a Lost Soul available for me to rescue. The game ended in a blow-out 6-0 with me winning easily.

After we finished the games, we talked about how he could strengthen his deck. Some of the suggestions he already had planned, but a couple were new, and he said he'd consider them. Overall, we had a great time, and we finished with a partial game of Vs. System before we had to take off.

That's the session...and it was a great time of gaming and fellowship.

Blessings,
DJ

PS...I'm assuming anyone reading this knows a little bit about the current game. If you have questions, just ask.

Thread: New Review

darcyj2 — 2005-09-15T13:57:36+00:00

I began collecting Redemption CCG in 1995 when the game first showed itself. Since then I quit collecting due to a lack of players until the past 3 years. Since picking the game back up, I've gone from the average player to tournament host and playtester. Here's my first game review on my favorite game of all time.

TYPES OF PLAY:
Type 1: This is the basic type of play with minimum deck size of 50 cards. Goal of the game is to be the first to rescue 5 Lost Soul cards.
Type 2: This is a type of play with minimum deck size of 100 cards, different deck-building rules and some advanced rules in use. Goal of the game is to be the first to rescue 7 Lost Soul cards.
Sealed: This is based on Type 1 rules, but all players get the cards unopened at the tournament.
Multiplayer: All three types have rules for Multi-Player games.

GAMEPLAY:
This is a typical CCG with one major exception...card cost. There is no cost to play cards, and that draws some players while other players are turned off by this.

The game begins with a drawn hand of 8. Any Lost Soul cards drawn are immediately put into play (Land of Bondage) and replaced for the opening hand. Lost Soul cards are always put into play immediately and replaced when drawn.

During a player's turn, there are 5 phases, Draw (no draw for first turn), Upkeep, Preparation, Battle, Discard.
Draw Phase: Draw 3 cards.
Upkeep Phase: Place counters for any turn counts.
Preparation Phase: (These can be done in any order with certain limits.) Put cards into play from hand into player's territory or set-aside area. Manage Artifact pile. Manage Land of Bondage by putting Lost Soul cards in available Sites.
Battle Phase: Place Good Character into Field of Battle by declaring a Rescue Attempt or Battle Challenge. Battle ensues according to rules of initiative until players no longer have cards to play or choose not to play any cards. Battle is resolved, and, if applicable, a Lost Soul is "Redeemed" if Evil Character(s) is(are) successfully defeated.
Discard Phase: Player whose turn it is must get remaining hand down to 8 cards if it is not already there. Cards may be put into territory or set-aside. If no cards may be played and hand is larger than 8 cards, player must discard enough cards to meet 8-card hand size, unless current game conditions change this.

STRATEGY:
This game is full of strategy from the most basic of games in which even 4 and 5 year olds can have fun to the most complex strategies that take multiple cards and can almost completely stop an opponent. The strategy levels are virtually endless, and in 2-Player play, these strategies vary significantly from player to player with a few specific archetypes more common than most. Multi-player strategy is a bit more consistent from player to player as there are a few game strategies that make them obvious for Multi-player gameplay.

PROS:
1. Theme. As a Christian, I really appreciate the theme of this game. I have no problem sharing it with parents looking for an alternative to the other CCG's out there. I also will have no problem teaching this game to my children when that day comes.
2. Cost. Most parents are surprised when I tell them that the most expensive boosters in the game run $3 (MSRP) with the earlier packs as low as $1 (MSRP). Also, Starter Decks (2 50-card decks) run as low as $10 (MSRP) with Gift Sets (including Starter Decks, 6 early boosters and a promo card) running at $15 (MSRP). **NOTE** Prices rounded to nearest dollar.
3. Card Cost. Again, some players see this as a negative, but I really like the idea that there is no need of waiting until I can play a certain card. I don't have to have enough "cost" to play any card, and that improves gameplay in my opinion.
4. Starting Cost. For $10, anyone can get into playing and have 2 50-card, tournament legal, Starter Decks to use. This allows for a game without both players footing extra cash for cards they may never use again if it doesn't strike their fancy.
5. Strategy. I really appreciate that there are counters to almost every strategy in the game. This allows for a variety of decks. Yes, there are some archetypes that seem to be more widely used, but there are plenty of counter strategies that can beat them, so there is no "unbeatable" deck.

CONS:
1. Players. Although this is getting better, it can still be hard to find players in any particular area to play the game. Online play is an option, but that never beats face-to-face games.
2. Tournament Deck Cost. There are a handful of "must-haves" for every competitive tournament deck. Some of these can get pricey when compared to the game as a whole. Compared to other popular CCG's, however, these are much less expensive. Currently the most expensive single cards in the game run between $30 and $40. Some of the "must-haves" run as much as $15 to $20.
3. Playing Evil Characters. Some do not like this aspect of the game, because it seems to defeat the purpose of the game. I put this as a "CON", but as a game, this is a necessary evil (pun intended). Both players in most games play both Good and Evil cards (also called Offense and Defense). If this turns you off, you can always try an all Offense deck (called "Attack" decks).

If you want more information, let me know.

Blessings,
DJ

Thread: Re: Questions about rules

darcyj2 — 2005-09-15T13:04:15+00:00

Ender's Game (I'm assuming you're an Orson Scott Card fan)...I'm out there on the EZBoard (sn = darcyj2), so feel free to look me up. Also, if you have any specific questions or want to hit a game online, look me up. Contact information for easy access is below.

email = darcyj2@triad.rr.com
AIM = darcyj2

Blessings,
DJ

Thread: Re: Would you recommend this game for a newbie?

Jormi_Boced — 2005-09-01T20:26:39+00:00

I am a huge fan of the Lord of the Rings TCG.

I definitely recomend it. There are a lot of sets out now, but you can get the old ones at really good prices from online stores like dacardworld.com.

Thread: Re: Questions about rules

EndersGame — 2005-08-01T13:59:09+00:00

It looks like I found what I'm looking for here:
http://p068.ezboard.com/bredemptionccg
I'll add a link to this forum on the BGG page for Redemption CCG.
Note that this discussion board only allows registered members, and registration requires approval by a site moderator.

Thread: Questions about rules

EndersGame — 2005-07-31T04:12:59+00:00

Hi there,
I'm new to Redemption, just getting going with a couple of starter packs and enjoying playing with my son! Is there a forum well-trafficked by regular players, where I could post a few questions about rules? I realize I can post here at boardgamegeek.com, but perhaps there is some other discussion board for Redemption players that is used more regularly and intensively? If so, I would like to know where it is, otherwise I will have to make do with posting my rules questions here, in the hope that some kind soul (redeemed, not lost! {grin}) will be able to answer them!
Thanks in advance,
Ender

Thread: Re: Would you recommend this game for a newbie?

Covenant_Games — 2005-07-24T16:29:49+00:00

I just wanted to address Clark's concern about players playing both good and evil.

I have heard and respect this concern in the past and would like to offer the following to minimize this issue:

All the evil characters and actions in the game are directly from the bible. Each card has the bible verse on it that the card is based upon.

The most important thing to remember is that the only way to win the game is for good to triumph over evil. Specifically, if your hero doesn't defeat the evil character, they can't rescue the lost soul and if you don't rescue the lost soul, you can't win the game. I have actually seen successful tournament decks built with no evil cards, but it would be impossible to build a successful tournament deck with no good cards.

in Him
Chris Bany
www.covenantgames.com

Thread: Re:Would you recommend this game for a newbie?

songbird — 2005-04-27T14:06:40+00:00

EndersGame (#479493),

Redemption has improved a lot over the years. I played the game when it was originally released, and it was essentially a straightforward "who can boost their number the highest" card battle. Since then, the game has gone through several major revisions, and I believe it's now on its third edition for the starter set.

The game is deeper, with artifacts that can affect multiple players, site cards representing where battles are fought, and other cards with multi-turn and/or delayed abilities.

IMO there is nothing about Redemption that is cheesy. The artwork ranges anywhere from solid to fantastic, and in particular a lot of the angelic/demonic depictions are portrayed very well. The mechanics of the game flow easily once you get the hang of it. The game continues to be popular 10 years after it was first produced, so that says something about its appeal.

Thread: Re:Would you recommend this game for a newbie?

CDRodeffer — 2005-04-25T19:27:27+00:00

EndersGame (#479493), I have played all of these except the Middle Earth CCG at some point, and for someone new to the hobby, I couldn't honestly recommend any of them. I'll let others speak for Middle Earth, but here are some specific points about the others:

Magic: The Gathering -- Obviously, this is the most popular among those listed, and has the broadest serious following even today, so common and unpopular cards are widely available, sometimes in large quantities for very little money. But it has some drawbacks in that the rules book has become bloated and complicated, some cards are extremely expensive, and the relatively dark theme of wizards drawing magical energy from the land to create monsters and other spells to try to kill each other may not sit well with some. Comparing it with some of the other similar and popular cockfighting TCGs such as Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic: The Gathering feels about the same. I don't play any of these any more, and have tried to give my old cards away on several occasions, only to have people forget to take the cards with them.

Lord of the Rings TCG -- I've only played this a couple of times, and that was early on with the first sets of cards. Thematically, the game was fairly engaging, but while things may have improved since then, at that time I found the game mechanics rather dull. Cards can be had in mass quantities on eBay, although they're generally more expensive than some.

Middle Earth TCG (ICE) -- As I said, I haven't played this one, but from what I've heard from friends, what you said is correct. There are plenty of cards available for this, and I can point you to a source if you'd like to get a few starters and boosters to give the game a try.

Redemption -- The earlier rulebooks were sometimes not completely clear, but more recent editions are fairly decent, and it's more accessible to beginners than some others. There are also plenty of cards available fairly inexpensively, at least compared to other TCGs, and the red boarders on the cards are very distinctive. Thematically, I didn't like the fact that both players had to play both good and evil roles. (You have to try to rescue lost souls from your opponent and try to hinder your opponent from doing the same to lost souls on your side of the table.) But aside from that, the range of strategies are fairly wide. A major down side is that it takes a LOT of boosters to get enough cards to make decent decks of only one or two colors (so the cards work well together). Fortunately, cases of boosters can be had for fairly reasonable prices on eBay. It's also the only one of these that's about more than just fighting.

Other games you didn't mention, but might want to consider, include the following:

Shaman King TCG -- While the rulebook generally stinks, the rules themselves are fairly easy to follow once you have them down, and the thematic integration of a shaman fight is good, I would say even better than in Magic: the Gathering. As a result, this one is especially well-suited for beginners, especially if you can get someone to teach you the game rather than relying on the rule book. Basically, it's yet another cockfighting card game, but with unresting souls helping the main characters do the fighting instead of fantastic beasts, pocket monsters or possessed cards. Down sides are that cards are sometimes hard to find and are relatively expensive.

All-Star Baseball Card Game -- Getting away from the fighting TCGs, a sleeper that many have overlooked is the All-Star Baseball Card Game by ABCGame Company (www.abcgame.com). These are probably two separate games, but the mechanics sound very similar to those described for Baseball Card All Star Game (www.boardgamegeek.com/game/2687), except that the pictures there look nothing like my copy, which is just rules and dice. I'm NOT talking about a game with the same name (www.boardgamegeek.com/game/3157). But anyway, the major strengths of All-Star Baseball (ABCGames) is that it has a sports theme instead of fighting (better for parent child games), baseball cards can be had in huge quantities very cheaply, the rules are very simple to learn and teach, and while the rules don't describe how to do it, the game is very well-suited to league play among a group of several families.

Thread: Re:Would you recommend this game for a newbie?

EndersGame — 2005-04-25T15:48:39+00:00

Most people seem to suggest that Redemption is more simplistic and less strategic than Magic The Gathering. So although it is perhaps better suited for casual play, it has less depth and is less satisfying. Would this be a fair comment? (I haven't played either game)

Thread: Would you recommend this game for a newbie?

EndersGame — 2005-04-24T02:23:10+00:00

I am new to CCGs, but am looking to get into it (along with someone else I know). I'm not intending to play in tournaments, and I don't plan to spend a lot of $$$. My aim is just to get a stash of 500-1000 cards fairly cheap (either some starter packs or else a box of used cards from eBay) that will enable me and my friend to have fun playing some social games for a good while. Here's where I can use some advice from experienced players - which CCG should I pick? Here are the ones I have narrowed it down to:

Magic TG, LOTR TCG, Middle Earth CCG, or Redemption?
My thoughts so far:

1. MAGIC THE GATHERING
I've downloaded the demo from Wizards of the Coast and have enjoyed it so far.
Advantages: (a) Readily available (large boxes of used cards are reasonably cheap on eBay); (b) Well established and proven; (c) the fantasy theme appeals to me

2. LORD OF THE RINGS: TRADING CARD GAME (LOTR TCG)
I don't know how the game-play compares in quality to Magic The Gathering. Comments?
Advantages: The LOTR theme appeals to me.
Disadvantages: Since it's relatively new, I imagine it is harder to get a large lot of used cards cheap?

3. MIDDLE EARTH CCG
Advantages: (a) Reviews suggest it has far more depth and strategy than LOTR TCG and Magic TG; (b) It is much more than a card game, and has qualities of role-playing and board games; (c) the LOTR theme appeals; (d) seems highly regarded?
Disadvantages: (a) Too hard to learn? (b) Games can be too complex and lengthy? (c) No longer in print, so harder to get a large lot of used cards cheap?

4. REDEMPTION
Advantages: As a Christian, the theme appeals to me, especially the Bible texts and ideas behind the game.
Disadvantages: (a) Some of the thematic elements seem tacky or cheesy; (b) Game play doesn't seem to have the depth that Magic TG and other CCGs have, eg there is no tapping, and much of the game play seems to consist merely of increasing your player's strength or damage ability while combatting two cards.

Any recommendation or thoughts on how the above four compare? Would you recommend Redemption CCG to a newbie like me? If so, where should I start? Or would the game play make one of the other three a better choice?

Thanks in advance for any advice or comments!

Thread: Re:I'll trade for a

Covenant_Games — 2005-03-23T07:12:32+00:00

go to my website www.covenantgames.com and email me your address and I will send you a John and Lydia card for free.

in Him
Chris
www.covenantgames.com

Thread: Re:I'll trade for a

tempus42 — 2004-11-22T19:37:23+00:00

You have a son named "John the Baptist"??