Game: Double or Nothing

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

Wrevilo — 2008-07-01T04:09:17+00:00

I played a few games of both Diamant (the original) and Double or Nothing over the weekend, and the more I play them, the more I am convinced that DoN is the better game. Keep in mind that I'm saying this after having shelled out $45 or so for the Schmidt Spiele edition, whereas my DoN cost me ohhh $8.

What I've been finding in the last few games of Diamant is that as you get closer to the end of the game, (the 3rd cave and up) the tension of the first few cards completely disappears. At this point, pretty much no one backs out before the 5th card or so, completely ruining any level of tension there might have been. The reason for this (imo) is the hidden gems. This is great as you never really know how much you need to win (unless you have a REALLY good memory) but it also means that people tend to just risk it all more and more as the game goes on. And since a lot of the tension rides heavily on those fists that people put forward, if their body language tells you that they're pushing it to the end, the crux of the game is ruined. Maybe it's just the people I've been gaming with, but this has happened several times in a row now.

Otoh, DoN has no such failings. Every time you risk, it's on your head - and crucially, you KNOW how much you need. This makes that decision to stay in or out way more difficult to make, especially if you're way behind. In addition, the DoN mechanic ups the tension considerably when there's only two of you left - and neither of you wants to give the other a shot at doubling their points.

I really love it. This game is criminally underrated here and I think it's one of the most fun - and most cheap - games in my collection. Anyone want to buy a used copy of a Schmidt Spiele Diamant in good shape?

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

rgmnetid — 2008-06-11T01:52:35+00:00

Thanks for coming back and saying so!

Thread: Re: ∞R-The Push Your Luck Trilogy Vol. 3: What Happens in Vegas...

wmshub — 2008-05-02T20:10:54+00:00

I like this series, and how you loosely strung the reviews together.

I prefer Diamant by a hair because of the theme and components, but I've warmed to Double or Nothing to the point where I think it's gameplay is a bit better than Diamant. I like how the last person in is forced to take extra risk for extra reward, and I think it's nice that people can be forced out individually.

I am looking forward to the upcoming "Pickpocket" though - it looks like it may take Double or Nothing, improve the theme, and fix the problems with the cards to make it much clearer which "lines" are broken and which are still live. I already have double or nothing, but if Pickpocket is as good as I hope, I may have to get it anyway!

Thread: Re: ∞R-The Push Your Luck Trilogy Vol. 3: What Happens in Vegas...

Lou-Dawg — 2008-05-02T19:08:46+00:00

I don't know why this game intrigues me so, but I'd play this over Diamant any day. Never played Cloud 9 so I can't comment on that.

Thread: Re: ∞R-The Push Your Luck Trilogy Vol. 3: What Happens in Vegas...

rayito2702 — 2008-05-02T19:07:01+00:00

davido wrote:
now that the 'trilogy' is complete, I had you pegged for Magdar as the other 'push your luck game' (which I don't like btw). I agree that Double or Nothing is fun, accessible, and can easily join Perudo/Liar's Dice as a game that you can take to the bar or play while waiting for dinner to arrive. thanks for a good series of reviews.

btw, of the three, Incan Gold is my fave-to each their own.

Thanks for your interest. I'm glad I the dramatic conclusion was somewhat surprising.

I respect people liking Incan Gold better. It seems to be very popular. Whenever my goup ends up playing it, nobody is ever satisfied after just one game and we have to play it again.

Well...nobody exept me. Part of the reason I wrote these reviews was to express a dissenting opinion and discuss the problems I have with Incan Gold. But I'm glad so many people have fun playing it.

I would like to elevate peoples' perception of Double or Nothing though. It really deserves to be respected the way Incan Gold is rather than just another Knizia filler.

Thread: Re: ∞R-The Push Your Luck Trilogy Vol. 3: What Happens in Vegas...

davido — 2008-05-02T17:48:27+00:00

now that the 'trilogy' is complete, I had you pegged for Magdar as the other 'push your luck game' (which I don't like btw). I agree that Double or Nothing is fun, accessible, and can easily join Perudo/Liar's Dice as a game that you can take to the bar or play while waiting for dinner to arrive. thanks for a good series of reviews.

btw, of the three, Incan Gold is my fave-to each their own.

Thread: ∞R-The Push Your Luck Trilogy Vol. 3: What Happens in Vegas...

rayito2702 — 2008-05-02T16:57:13+00:00

∞R-The Push Your Luck Trilogy Vol. 3: What Happens in Vegas...

See Also
∞R-The Push Your Luck Trilogy Vol. 1: The Earth Below
∞R-The Push Your Luck Trilogy Vol. 2: The Sky Above

There’s a Knizia freak in my game group. He often extolled the benefits of Double or Nothing. As a board gaming aesthete, I know enough to look down my nose at the ubiquitous doctor. He’s soooo 2001, Darling!

But Tanga was giving Double or Nothing away for the price of shipping in the Christmas of aught seven. Despite my usual rule of never buying a game I haven’t played, I got two copies. Best impulse buy ever.

Components

The components aren’t all that great. The cards are Poker sized but flimsy. Some even had tabs that had not been sheered off all the way during production. The board needs a good back bending to lie flat, but I’ve been afraid to do it. A friend has the game and when he did the back bend maneuver the board broke.

The pawns and In/Out tokens are fine. The Las Vegas gambling theme seems like a weak grab at Poker’s popularity. It could have easily been given a cool theme like Inca Gold/Diamant.

My biggest qualm with the game is the graphic design on the cards. The cards depict symbols of one to four different standard playing card suits. The symbols are arranged diagonally across the card which confuses the main issue of trying to line up the types of symbols from one card to another.

Game Play

On a player’s turn in Double or Nothing players he can either take points and go Out or stay In and turn over the next card in the deck.

As I said these cards depict one to four different standard card suit symbols. A card might have a Heart and a Diamond or a Heart, Diamond, Club and Spade. If a player turns over a card and it continues a chain of at least one symbol back to the first card turned over in the round, the player stays In. For example if all cards depict a Heart the player is still In. If there is no symbol that is on each card after a player has drawn a card, he discards that card and is forced to go Out for the rest of the round without taking any points.

Players get points based on the number of symbols in all continuous chains of symbols. So if there are five cards and all five have a Spade and a Heart on them that would be 10 points, one point for each Spade and Heart.

There are seven Bonus cards in the deck which depict a number rather than symbols. The first Bonus card drawn in a round merely adds its value to a player’s score when they choose to go Out rather than turn the next card. If a second Bonus card is pulled the round ends. Everyone still In is forced to go Out without getting any points. When the seventh Bonus card is turned up, the game is over immediately.

Why is it called Double or Nothing? If all players but one have passed, that last player has to draw two cards. If he is still In after both draws he gets double the points for each symbol. Whether he’s successful or not the round ends, all cards are discarded and the players start again with all players In.

For added fun, at the beginning of the game each player is dealt a hand of three cards and can choose to play a card from their hand rather than draw. But only one card can be played from a player’s hand when he has to play double or nothing.

My Take

First of all, let me tell you why Double or Nothing blows Inca Gold/Diamant and Cloud Nine out of the water. It has the catastrophic failure mode that forces every player Out of the round like those other games have. But in addition to that it has the “Russian Roulette” aspect of a player pulling a card that that harms only himself. The combination of both group failure and individual failure is a dynamic that those other two games just don’t have. In those other games if someone gets a bad roll or a bad card everyone goes down. In Double or Nothing there's more of a chance lots of points will be available before the catastrophic failure of two Bonus cards takes place.

Another point of delicious agony is that there is a better than 50% chance of pulling any one symbol. Just by the odds a player is more likely to stay In than go Out. This makes players want to keep pushing it, often to their eternal dismay.

From an interactive standpoint, there’s the excitement in trying to set oneself up for a double or nothing play. Ideally a player pushes until they are the only one still In and they have a card in their hand that will continue one of the chains. Much of the game revolves around maneuvering oneself into a huge double or nothing play. This requires nerves of steel and, of course, luck.
But unlike Inca Gold/Diamant where there are so few rounds that a single player getting a windfall is nigh unbeatable, in Double or Nothing there is typically quite a few rounds played before the final Bonus cards has its way. So if one player makes a huge play, the other players have numerous opportunities to get back in the game.

Since Überplay appears to have gone belly up, I highly recommend picking up a copy of Double or Nothing while you can. It’s small, plays up to six players and the play is fast and exciting. Inca Gold/Diamant has it beat for maximum number of players and theme while Cloud Nine has the bluffing element but the game play is much better in Double or Nothing.

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

wmshub — 2008-04-26T07:09:13+00:00

UPDATE: Lately I've played a few more games of this. I'm starting to reconsider my review - each game, I like it more. It's a silly little game, but once you get used to the themelessness and the weird "lines of dots that aren't really lines", it all fits together and makes a pretty decent game. And the tension of succeeding or failing at the double or nothing stage is great! I find myself looking forward to my next play and hoping I can get it to the table again soon.

So I'm upping my rating to a 7 ("good game, usually willing to play.") If I can get more plays and still like it as much, I may up it again. I don't think it will go higher than 8 ("very good game. I like to play. Probably I'll suggest it and will never turn down a game"), but that's where I put Diamant, which means that once you get used to it, the theme may not be so important.

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

Beowulf — 2008-01-22T17:53:15+00:00

Excellent comparison, and I agree in almost every regard.

wmshub wrote:
If you like gambling and pressing your luck, you'll find it fun and it has lots of opportunities to decide how lucky you feel.
I could argue that any "press your luck" game is a form of gambling. I think Double or Nothing does have a theme, and it is gambling. The Poker suits, the In/Out chips (which look like the "On/Off" puck from Craps), and even the terminology of "cashing out" all support this impression. It is a very bland theme, and one that mostly goes unnoticed because...well, because press your luck games are a form of gambling!

wmshub wrote:
Like all Knizia games, it is well balanced, and it ends just at the right time, before it overstays its welcome. I rate it a BGG 6, "Will play sporadically if in the right mood." But if you compare it to Diamant, there's no doubt which is the better game.
Agreed, all the way down to your rating. In comparison, I give Diamant an "8." Its theme and supporting components make a difference.

joewyka wrote:
And you could argue that Double or Nothing has a casino theme using the card suit symbols (could have used basic squares, circles, triangles and stars, right?) and the In/Out chips.
I agree with this as well!

davido wrote:
OT: is it me, or are the examples in the rules wrong? e.g. mixup of spades and clubs in the first example, and I find the second example unclear...
You are correct. The example in the rules has its suits reversed: the Clubs were broken with the third card, and the Spades were broken with the 1st card.

Thread: Re: Order of cards during double or nothing

GaryP — 2008-01-10T14:52:32+00:00

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. Do you mean, can you place the first-drawn card in the last position, and the second card (drawn or from the hand) in the first position? If so, it absolutely does not matter. If either card interrupts a row of symbols, that row does not count. It does not matter where the break occurs.

If you mean, can you draw two cards from the deck and then decide whether or not to play a different one from your hand, then no. Cards drawn from the deck are played immediately. They never go into your hand. The three cards in your hand at the start of the game are the only cards that will ever be in your hand for that game.

As mentioned, if you draw (and play) one card from the deck, you can then decide whether or not to play the second one from your hand or the deck.

Thread: Re: Order of cards during double or nothing

InfoCynic — 2008-01-10T13:35:03+00:00

Thanks, but that doesn't clarify "can I see 2 cards at once and place them in whatever order I want, so long as at most one is from my hand?"

Thread: Re: Order of cards during double or nothing

wmshub — 2008-01-10T06:27:41+00:00

Either order.

Really, it only makes sense to draw first, then add your own. That way, if the draw kills you, you won't waste one of your in-hand cards. But if you wanted to, you could still do it the "bad" way.

Thread: Order of cards during double or nothing

InfoCynic — 2008-01-10T04:00:34+00:00

Is a player allowed to draw both cards and place them in either order, or draw a card from the deck and add one from his hand in either position, or is he or she forced to draw 1 and place it, then add another from the deck or hand if still alive?

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

Morganza — 2007-12-25T19:53:49+00:00

Tanga does flat-rate shipping (5.99 for all but the heaviest items), so someone who speculates on 10 copies at $2 each actually has a lower unit price than someone who takes 2 copies for free. Probably still worth it for either price, though.

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

anubis9 — 2007-12-25T19:30:54+00:00

I picked up a free copy from Tanga on Christmas. Can't beat that price!

Image

greggm1 — 2007-12-17T05:33:44+00:00

"6 markers in different colors" (my green is slightly deformed)

Thread: Re: When is the track cleared?

tritone — 2007-12-03T23:46:35+00:00

wmshub wrote:
After two games, I can say that the player who pushes their luck isn't always the loser...
(snip)

William, thanks for the analysis. I wish I had read your reply earlier... it would have saved me time. I spent a little while thinking more about the 2p game, and came to similar conclusions. Cashing out seems best when there are the fewest points on the table, giving your opponent less to double if she's the lucky one. But if there are multiple lines still on the table, seems like the odds favor you drawing another card to reduce the lines. As you point out, it's best to either cash out with a few points, or draw successfully and let your opponent make the decision "for you" and then hope for a double.

I'm anxious to try the game some more. We tried playing 2p with 4 "hands" and it was just unwieldy and probably unnecessary. We'll try it with just one hand apiece, and your suggestions, and I'm sure we'll have more fun.

Thread: Re: When is the track cleared?

wmshub — 2007-12-03T22:07:17+00:00

After two games, I can say that the player who pushes their luck isn't always the loser.

In 2 player, when you drop out, your opponent is forced to double or nothing. If you drop out with 2 or more live lines, there is a good chance that your opponent will survive the double or nothing, which means they'll get double points, which means they'll usually beat you. So in that case, it's in your best interests to draw instead of dropping out, giving your opponent the decision instead.

Sometimes you get a lot of cards down, and you're down to one line, so it's dangerous to be the last one in...but in that case, if you survive the double or nothing, you'll get a *LOT* of points!

I said in my review that this game really does have good balance, and from my meager two plays I think that is true. It's often a tricky decision on whether you should cash out or press on. Doing either automatically means you won't be playing well.

Thread: Re: When is the track cleared?

tritone — 2007-12-03T21:50:57+00:00

joewyka wrote:
Good idea! Why don't you go OUT on the first opportunity every time and let the others "press their luck". Just see how many games you win...

I forgot to mention that we are playing 2-player (my wife and I). We tried playing with 2 tokens/hands apiece, but that wasn't rewarding. I suppose next we'll try with just 1 token/hand apiece, but with the extra starting card as someone suggested, and hope for a better experience.

Unlike other press-your-luck games we have tried (that work!) for 2-players (Ra, Can't Stop, No Thanks!) this one is "different" in that you don't take a card/tile first and THEN decide whether to press your luck. You have to decide first whether you're going out, or will draw a card. If you draw a card, you won't receive its benefit. With only 2 players, the guy that "pushes his luck" is usually the loser. Anyway, maybe we'll stumble on a variant for two that works better?

Thread: Re: When is the track cleared?

joewyka — 2007-12-03T07:27:15+00:00

tritone wrote:
Here's another question... it almost seems like the only "logical" move to make in this game is to cash out, doesn't it? The odds are heavily against you gaining anything from drawing a card. If you bust, you're out. If you draw, you get no points, but you've increased the score for the next guy(s). Their logical move now is to cash out, and more than likely you are now the last man, and will be forced to play double-or-nothing, and probably lose. Does that just about sum it up?

Good idea! Why don't you go OUT on the first opportunity every time and let the others "press their luck". Just see how many games you win...

Thread: Re: When is the track cleared?

wmshub — 2007-12-03T06:58:35+00:00

tritone wrote:
The term "press your luck" doesn't really seem to quite be the right term for this game, but I've seen it used several times. "Can't Stop" is press your luck. "Lost Cities" is press your luck.Lost Cities is not much of a "press your luck" game, there's a little of that, but it is mostly hand management.

Double or Nothing is completely "press your luck" because each turn you have the option of taking your reward, or risking your current reward while trying for a bigger one. Any game that has that option presented to the players is "press your luck."

Thread: Re: When is the track cleared?

tritone — 2007-12-03T06:43:38+00:00

wmshub wrote:
If a player cashes out, do not clear. Other players keep playing.

If a player goes bust, ONLY discard the card that they busted on (in other words, the card that they just flipped). The rest of the track stays in place.

Thanks. That clears it up for me.

Although... I still can't quite get this whole mechanism to make sense. The term "press your luck" doesn't really seem to quite be the right term for this game, but I've seen it used several times. "Can't Stop" is press your luck. "Lost Cities" is press your luck. I would say this game is more like "pass your luck" directly to your opponent. I like Knizia games, which is mainly why I bought it (and the $2 price at Tanga) but this one seems to be about 99% luck. You might as well flip a coin instead of flipping cards.

Thread: Re: When is the track cleared?

wmshub — 2007-12-03T06:14:49+00:00

If a player cashes out, do not clear. Other players keep playing.

If a player goes bust, ONLY discard the card that they busted on (in other words, the card that they just flipped). The rest of the track stays in place.

Only clear when:
- A second bonus appears
- The last player left goes bust or cashes out (after one or more double or nothing plays, the last player is required to try double or nothing at least once before cashing out)

I think that's right...

Thread: When is the track cleared?

tritone — 2007-12-03T04:58:18+00:00

Is the track ever cleared when a player goes OUT? either from cashing-out, or busting on a draw? I may have overlooked something in the rules. I believe the rules say that you clear the track when a 2nd bonus card shows up, when the 7th bonus card shows up, and after a double-or-nothing. But wasn't sure what to do when an individual player goes OUT.

Here's another question... it almost seems like the only "logical" move to make in this game is to cash out, doesn't it? The odds are heavily against you gaining anything from drawing a card. If you bust, you're out. If you draw, you get no points, but you've increased the score for the next guy(s). Their logical move now is to cash out, and more than likely you are now the last man, and will be forced to play double-or-nothing, and probably lose. Does that just about sum it up?

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing

bigchief — 2007-12-03T01:57:23+00:00

I picked this one up on Tanga for $1.99 as well and was pleasantly surprised. I completely agree with you about both it's game weight and price. I wouldn't pay more than $10 for it, and it won't get to the table a lot, but it is a nice change of pace between heavier games. It has also been fun to play with kids.

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

tritone — 2007-12-03T00:10:26+00:00

davido wrote:
OT: is it me, or are the examples in the rules wrong? e.g. mixup of spades and clubs in the first example, and I find the second example unclear...

I had the same reaction... I believe the first example was a mix-up. I don't have the rules in front of me so I don't recall the 2nd example.

Thread: Double or Nothing

tuneloon — 2007-12-02T22:16:08+00:00

After seeing this title offered on Tanga several times over the past few months, I finally pulled the trigger when they had copies for 2$ plus shipping. I ended up picking up 6 copies for $18, as I thought this might be a decent game for my non gaming friends. Here's what I found.

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Components - The game comes in a very sturdy small box and contains a small rulebook, a deck of cards, a small scoring track board, 6 scoring markers and 6 matching in/out tokens. The cards feel a little thin, but are adequate, and everything else works well for the game. The deck consists of 66 cards that are a mix and match of 4 different suits (clubs, diamonds, hearts and spades) as well as 7 bonus cards. The suit cards can have any combination of suits. Some cards show all 4 suits, while others only have 1.

Setup - Each player selects a scoring marker and matching in/out token. The 7 bonus cards are removed, the cards are shuffled, and each player is dealt 3 cards for their hand. The bonus cards are then shuffled back into the remaining deck and a start player is chosen.

Gameplay - The start player flips over a single card. Play then passes to the next player clockwise. Each player then has 2 options on their turn until only 1 player remains in.
1. Play a card - A player may flip a card from the deck or play one from their hand. If the card extends any suit from start to finish, then they remain in and play passes to the next player. If their card does not extend at least one suit from start to finish, then the card is discarded and the player goes out
2. Cash out - A player may flip thier token from in to out and score points
This process continues until there is only one player left in. This player then plays double or nothing. He must turn over 2 cards (only 1 can be from his hand), and will score double the points of all suits that extend from the start of the flipped cards thru to the end.

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Bonus Cards - There are 7 bonus cards in the deck. When one of these cards is flipped, it adds a bonus to any player that scores (the bonus is never doubled in the double or nothing round). If a second bonus card is flipped during a round, there is no further scoring, all exposed cards are discarded and a new round begins. Keep all flipped bonus cards from previous rounds exposed when they come out so that you know when all bonus cards have been exposed.

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Scoring Players can score one time per round. In the above photo, the point total would be 3 in hearts, as hearts is the only suit that extends from beginning to end. Scoring for each player is usually stated prior to their turn so there is no confusion. In the few games that I have played the scoring can vary greatly. I've seen players win in the 20's as well as in the 50's.

Game End - New rounds continue until all 7 of the bonus cards have been flipped. When the 7th bonus card is flipped the game ends immediately and the player with the most points wins.

Overview - In my opinion, Double or Nothing is a decent press your luck card game that can be enjoyed by gamers and non gamers alike. A game typically takes 20 minutes and is easy to learn, so it can be a very nice filler. It's not going to appeal to a heavy gamer much, and I don't think it will hit the table too often, but it can be a nice break between meatier games. I don't think the game is worthy of its $20 retail price tag, but if you can pick this up for under $5 as I did, I think it's well worth it.

Thread: Re: Is a player forced to do a Double Or Nothing?

frankinla — 2007-12-01T19:31:57+00:00

Yes, you have to go double-or-nothing when you're last. You may play the first card from your hand and draw the second, though I don't see the point of that as you could end up playing a useful card then have the card from the deck break you anyway, wasting your hand card. I always draw the first card then (hopefully!) fill the winner from my hand. Worst case is you have no card from your hand that would help and you have to draw two.

Thread: Re: Is a player forced to do a Double Or Nothing?

wmshub — 2007-12-01T19:10:39+00:00

The forced double or nothing is important. Otherwise, if there are two left, the player in the lead never wants to go out alone - they can always just go out right after their opponent, never taking a higher risk!

With the forced double or nothing, being the last one in becomes dangerous.

Thread: Re: Is a player forced to do a Double Or Nothing?

pschwar — 2007-12-01T15:05:57+00:00

Gola wrote:
No cashing out—if you're the last man standing, you go double or nothing, baby!

Thanks for that!

Thread: Re: Is a player forced to do a Double Or Nothing?

pschwar — 2007-12-01T15:05:30+00:00

johnweldy wrote:

If the card from your hand has to be the first card, that's a lot more risk (as you're risking your hand card, too). If it's the second, you can just wait to decide until you see the flip.

We just got done playing and wondered the same thing.

Thread: Re: Is a player forced to do a Double Or Nothing?

johnweldy — 2007-12-01T14:13:01+00:00

Similar question we came up with. The rules say one of the cards from the Double or Nothing can be from your hand, but doesn't say if it's the first or second card.

If the card from your hand has to be the first card, that's a lot more risk (as you're risking your hand card, too). If it's the second, you can just wait to decide until you see the flip.

Thread: Re: Is a player forced to do a Double Or Nothing?

Gola — 2007-12-01T12:29:13+00:00

No cashing out—if you're the last man standing, you go double or nothing, baby!

Thread: Is a player forced to do a Double Or Nothing?

pschwar — 2007-12-01T11:50:26+00:00

When there's just one player left in the round, is he forced to do a "Double or Nothing", or can he cash out?

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

ixnay66 — 2007-11-30T23:29:55+00:00

I like Double or nothing. Tanga was seklling these for $2 a piece so I loaded up for X-mas.

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

davido — 2007-11-30T21:23:49+00:00

OT: is it me, or are the examples in the rules wrong? e.g. mixup of spades and clubs in the first example, and I find the second example unclear...

back to our regularly scehduled review.

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

joewyka — 2007-11-30T17:42:40+00:00

It's a matter of taste and has little to do with "quality". My wife loves Double or Nothing and finds most adventure type themes to be silly. And you could argue that Double or Nothing has a casino theme using the card suit symbols (could have used basic squares, circles, triangles and stars, right?) and the In/Out chips. This gambling theme makes a lot more sense to me for a push-your-luck game than "run into a snake and drop all of your goodies."

I don't think Double or Nothing is themeless, but neither game is really about theme anyway.

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

GamesOnTheBrain — 2007-11-30T16:42:57+00:00

Kingdoms (and Beowulf: The Movie Boardgame) is similar. While playing the other night, I told my wife how easy it would have been to make my own copy of this game, and she said something to the effect of, "If the pieces were just numbers, I wouldn't like it. I really like playing games with nice artwork, even if it doesn't make much sense."

Thread: Re: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

Rliyen — 2007-11-30T11:56:01+00:00

Excellent review and captures my sentiment about the game perfectly. It plays well with my non-gamer in-laws, but that's not saying much.

Thread: Double or Nothing vs. Diamant: Abstract vs. Themed

wmshub — 2007-11-30T05:42:05+00:00

Double or nothing is a light press your luck game. Players take turns deciding whether to flip a card face up, or to cash out. When you cash out, you get points based on the cards showing (more cards usually means more points); when you flip, if your card has a suit marker that is also on all the already-flipped cards (as hearts are in the example below), then you stay in and the turn passes to the next player. If your card doesn't have any suit markers that match, then you go bust and get no points for this round. In other words, the longer you stay in, the more points you are likely to get when you finally cash out, but it also becomes more likely that you'll end up empty handed. Rounds are played until all seven special bonus cards have been flipped, then the game ends and the player with the most points wins.]]>

As you can see, it is a very simple press your luck game. People who have played Diamant will notice the similarity. In both games, you decide whether you stay in or not; flip a card; the longer you stay in, the greater your reward, but also the greater the risk that you go home empty handed.

Since the games are so similar, they should be equally as fun, right? Well, here's the funny thing. Diamant/Incan Gold has a theme which, while pretty much pasted on, fits perfectly: In Diamant, you are Indiana Jones-style archaeologists exploring a cave (or an incan ruin for the Incan Gold release). The theme really makes no sense when you look at the details: Why do you drop all your treasure when you see a second snake, if the first didn't bother you? When your friend turns back, why not ask them to carry your treasure out for you? Etc. But despite its thinness, the theme and the components really makes the game great: It's exciting to see the cave in cards, the snake cards, and the other hazards. It's fun to collect plastic gemstones. It's exciting to decide whether you dare to go on.

Double or Nothing has no theme, it's an abstract card game. Knizia (the designer) is famous for his pasted on themes, but this time the game has none. The two games really show how a theme, no matter how many holes in its plot, can make a game more fun.

Honestly, Double or Nothing isn't a bad game. If you like gambling and pressing your luck, you'll find it fun and it has lots of opportunities to decide how lucky you feel. Like all Knizia games, it is well balanced, and it ends just at the right time, before it overstays its welcome. I rate it a BGG 6, "Will play sporadically if in the right mood." But if you compare it to Diamant, there's no doubt which is the better game.

Thread: Another two-player

frankinla — 2007-09-16T15:13:03+00:00

My wife & I play this game playing two "players" each, with our lower marker being our final score at the end. This works well with many games, including this one.

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Apparatus — 2007-07-13T14:49:14+00:00

Bonus Cards

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Apparatus — 2007-07-13T14:48:49+00:00

Double or Nothing (Hearts)

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Apparatus — 2007-07-13T14:31:09+00:00

In/Out Indicators (Back Side)

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Apparatus — 2007-07-13T14:30:37+00:00

In/Out Indicators (Front Side)

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cdefrisco — 2007-07-03T19:54:25+00:00

Double or Nothing Board

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Duane Abrames — 2007-06-29T21:54:44+00:00

Side of box, showing age, players, and time.

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Duane Abrames — 2007-06-29T21:53:55+00:00

Clear picture of the back of box

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Duane Abrames — 2007-06-29T21:52:50+00:00

Clear picture of the front of box

Thread: 2 Player

Liumas — 2007-05-19T07:27:55+00:00

On a test run we found that this works well enough for 2.

For a simple 2 player variant that turns this into a 15 minute game:

Add an extra card at the beginning of each race, then the players start placing their cards as normal, in order.

Thread: Double or Nothing Review

mpetty31 — 2006-03-05T17:56:11+00:00

Game Information

Designed by Reiner Knizia, published by Uberplay in 2006.
For 3 to 6 players, ages 10 and up.
Playing time is 20 minutes.

Double or Nothing is a push-your-luck game with graphics based on the standard four suits—spades, hearts, diamonds and clubs.

Overview
My guess is Uberplay was hoping this game would catch the attention of non-gamers and card players. If so, I think they succeeded by providing a quick diversion that keeps everyone involved.

The game is extremely simple to learn. Make sure one or two experienced players get a turn before the newbies take theirs and everyone can learn how to play just by watching. Knizia, being a man of numbers, can always be trusted to make some tricky decisions based on probabilities. So, the simple rules and tense decisions will likely appeal to a wide range of players, at least for a few times through the game.

Complaints? The graphics are quite dull and the cards are really thin. I’m curious to know the production story behind this one, since this is not the usual fare for Uberplay.

Rule Summary
It's all about having the most points at the end of the game. Most of a player's points will come from the symbols (the familiar four card suits) that show up on a row of face up cards. Any suit that appears an each card, from the leftmost card to the very end of the row, forms a “line” that can score points for a player. Each symbol in the lines counts as one point. A card that is added to the end of the row may break a line, meaning it doesn’t have that line’s symbol on it. That means that line won’t score points for anyone for the rest of the round. Furthermore, when a player chooses to reveal a card, then he finds it doesn’t continue any existing lines, that player is out of the round. And that brings us to the main choice of the game.

On a turn, a player will decide if he’ll reveal one more card and add it to the line, thus staying in the round, or if he’ll stop and take the points currently showing in the line. If he flips a card over and no current lines are extended, he’s out. Likewise, if he takes the points he’s out. Each player has a chip in front of him with “In” and “Out” printed on it, so with a flip of the chip each player’s status can be clearly indicated.

The game builds to a nice climax each round because the last player in has to go “double or nothing”. In this case, it means he must flip two cards over and the points will be doubled if both cards continue at least one line. In our games, this usually results in “nothing”, but when the double’s happen, it can really get a player a lot of points.

There are a couple other twists well worth mentioning. Most notably, players receive three cards (yes, just three for the whole game) at the before play starts. Anytime a player would normally choose to reveal a card and add it to a row, he can play one of these cards from his hand instead. If you find yourself in the “double or nothing” situation, you can play one card from your hand, but not both. (At least one must be revealed randomly.) As you can see, though, these cards add a touch of control—but never quite as much as you’d like!

Lastly, there are seven bonus cards in the deck. These have numbers on them from three to seven. When a bonus card turns up, it adds that many points to the current value of the row. Bonuses aren’t doubled, though. Also, if two bonus cards come up the round ends immediately, offering no players who are still in a chance to get points. When the seventh bonus card turns up the game is over immediately. If it’s not immediately apparent, these twists add to the tension, making some decisions of staying in or taking the points all the harder.

Components
In the box you’ll find six wooden pawns, a score track, a short rule book and a deck of cards. The pawns are fine. The track is durable, but you’ll probably have to bend it backwards a little to get it to lie flat. The rules are simple and very clearly illustrated.

I’m not normally one to care much about graphics, but I have to say this game looks dull. I’ve seen it entertain non-gamers and cause some excitement, so they don’t completely destroy its charm.

What really shocked me, though, was how thin the cards are in this game. They have a durable linen finish, so they look to be high quality cards. In handling them and shuffling them, though, you’ll quickly find their quality to be less than the usual that we’ve seen from Uberplay. With this thin material, I question the wisdom of printing the card backs right to the edge of the cards. My deck already shows some wear and if the nicks and marks become too apparent on some cards, particularly the bonus cards, it can definitely impact the game.

Final Thoughts
All things considered, I like Double or Nothing. It plays very quickly and casual or non-gamers can learn it easily. I suspect I’ll play it with many different groups, especially with the folks I meet at our regular coffee shop game days. Though I’ve criticized its drab look, I can see the familiar symbols were chosen to make the game feel accessible, and that it does.

Regular groups of gamers will probably enjoy the first few romps through this latest Knizia release. We all like something new as a filler or a closer. I don’t see this game having much staying power for any single group, however, as there are so many stronger designs demanding time on the table.

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BeyondMonopoly — 2006-02-16T02:14:54+00:00

Cards