Game: Race the Wind

Thread: Re: Moving puffs and lulls

npcomplete — 2008-07-08T15:14:38+00:00

Tradewinds Ted wrote:
npcomplete wrote:
By the way, we are also working on a variant to make when the wind changes might happen a bit less predictable. Any suggestions are welcome.

Have you had any progress on making the wind shift timing less predictable?

One possibility is to roll a D6 every time the lead boat is about to move, in order to determine IF the wind shifs. Rolls of 1-5 would mean no changes, but if the roll is a 6 then there is a wind shift, and the other die is rolled to determine HOW the wind shifts: clockwise, counter-clockwise, or if the wind direction stays the same but the puffs and lulls are reversed.

Rolling prior to the each player would be too often. Rolling once per turn before the same player each time would change the balance for that player, since the same player would always react first to the changes. Rolling just before the lead player moves changes which player rolls the die and reacts first to wind shifts whenever the lead changed.

This might seem like a lot of dice rolling, but remember that most of the time you don't have to do anything. Rolling the wind die every turn wasn't realy a problem in the comparable 3M and AH game Regatta

Of course you need to be able to determine the lead boat. Often it will be obvious, but if there is any dispute:
1) On a windward leg, the boat farthest to windward (based on the current wind direction) is in the lead.
2) Similarly, on a leeward leg the boat farthest to leeward is in the lead.
3) Note that the lead boat is not necessarily the boat that is closest to the next rounding mark or the finish line. Instead, it is the boat closest to a line extending from the mark, perpendicular to the wind. If there are two marks, to round, or for the two ends of the finish line, just consider the closest mark, or the closest end of the finish line.
4) If the boats have completed a race leg and moved beyond a rounding mark, but have not yet fully rounded the mark and begun the next leg of the race, then the boat that is closest to the rounding mark is in the lead.
5) If two or more boats are equal by all of the above criteria, then the boat to starboard is in the lead.
6) No wind shifts during the start sequence (until after the first boat clears the start line)

I would assume that just before each player moves, they would check to see if they have the lead boat at that moment, and if so, roll to determine if the wind shift occurs. It is possible that in a very close race the each player might move into the lead as they move. If so, the lead position would rotate with each move so that it would be rare for the player that is about to move to be in the lead at that moment. But that might be OK, as it would mean that the wind would shift less often in a closely contested race, and more often if one player is way ahead, which is when you want the wind shifts to spoil the lead boats advantage anyway.

Edit: Note I haven't acually tried this yet, but I hope it makes some sense.

Unfortunatly the group I play this game with hasn't gotten together for a while, and I've been too busy with work to think much about this varient. Next time we get together to play we'll give this a shot. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thread: Re: Moving puffs and lulls

Tradewinds Ted — 2008-07-07T22:54:11+00:00

npcomplete wrote:
By the way, we are also working on a variant to make when the wind changes might happen a bit less predictable. Any suggestions are welcome.

Have you had any progress on making the wind shift timing less predictable?

One possibility is to roll a D6 every time the lead boat is about to move, in order to determine IF the wind shifs. Rolls of 1-5 would mean no changes, but if the roll is a 6 then there is a wind shift, and the other die is rolled to determine HOW the wind shifts: clockwise, counter-clockwise, or if the wind direction stays the same but the puffs and lulls are reversed.

Rolling prior to the each player would be too often. Rolling once per turn before the same player each time would change the balance for that player, since the same player would always react first to the changes. Rolling just before the lead player moves changes which player rolls the die and reacts first to wind shifts whenever the lead changed.

This might seem like a lot of dice rolling, but remember that most of the time you don't have to do anything. Rolling the wind die every turn wasn't realy a problem in the comparable 3M and AH game Regatta

Of course you need to be able to determine the lead boat. Often it will be obvious, but if there is any dispute:
1) On a windward leg, the boat farthest to windward (based on the current wind direction) is in the lead.
2) Similarly, on a leeward leg the boat farthest to leeward is in the lead.
3) Note that the lead boat is not necessarily the boat that is closest to the next rounding mark or the finish line. Instead, it is the boat closest to a line extending from the mark, perpendicular to the wind. If there are two marks, to round, or for the two ends of the finish line, just consider the closest mark, or the closest end of the finish line.
4) If the boats have completed a race leg and moved beyond a rounding mark, but have not yet fully rounded the mark and begun the next leg of the race, then the boat that is closest to the rounding mark is in the lead.
5) If two or more boats are equal by all of the above criteria, then the boat to starboard is in the lead.
6) No wind shifts during the start sequence (until after the first boat clears the start line)

I would assume that just before each player moves, they would check to see if they have the lead boat at that moment, and if so, roll to determine if the wind shift occurs. It is possible that in a very close race the each player might move into the lead as they move. If so, the lead position would rotate with each move so that it would be rare for the player that is about to move to be in the lead at that moment. But that might be OK, as it would mean that the wind would shift less often in a closely contested race, and more often if one player is way ahead, which is when you want the wind shifts to spoil the lead boats advantage anyway.

Edit: Note I haven't acually tried this yet, but I hope it makes some sense.

Image

Cornbread46 — 2008-06-30T17:00:20+00:00

Middle of a game played at origins 2008.

Image

Cornbread46 — 2008-06-30T16:44:55+00:00

Mid-game. (from Origins 2008)

Thread: Re: Add a Spinnaker!

Tradewinds Ted — 2008-06-24T18:59:58+00:00

Thanks for checking this out with the designer.

I didn't have my rules with me when I responded yesterday. I don't know that we actually ever had anyone blocked by a buoy in a game, as you can see what is likely to happen and avoid a stationary object if you plan ahead. Edit: I suppose if the wind shifts just as you approach a buoy you might be caught in a broad reach when you thought you would be on some other point of sail.

I am happy to change and have the blocked boat simply miss the turn (while lowering sails) and then only maneuver on the next turn if still blocked.

By the way, I know the designer uses the term "unfurl the sails" to mean let the wind out of the sails and stop the boat, but to furl the sails means to roll them up, so to unfurl the sails should mean the opposite! Pesky English language!

Thread: Re: Add a Spinnaker!

taraba — 2008-06-24T13:12:17+00:00

Here's the response I got from the designer this morning about how to resolve the broad reach situation: "The rule is that you must unfurl your sails and so skip a turn, and in the next turn you will just manouver. Yes broad reach is the only sailing point that does not give you the option to manouver first."

It goes along with your rule for making players take down the sails. He didn't say anything about getting a penalty from a buoy though.

Thread: Re: a collection of answers i got from the designer.

taraba — 2008-06-24T13:03:40+00:00

I had a question that I asked the designer, so I'll put it here for informational purposes.

Blocked broad reach The situation is that my boat is pointing at a buoy one intersection away and at broad reach. The rules for broad reach are "1 movement then a maneuver". How does this situation get resolved?

The rule is that you must unfurl your sails and so skip a turn, and in the next turn you will just manouver. Yes broad reach is the only sailing point that does not give you the option to manouver first.

Thread: Re: Starting position clarification

Tradewinds Ted — 2008-06-24T00:24:49+00:00

I agree this isn't clear.

My best understanding is that the boat must be positioned AT LEAST three points OUTSIDE of the buoy (East/West)and to also be either Even with the start line or any distance upwind of the start (North)

Example: Three points West and 1 point NOrth of the westward start buoy

The other alternative starting position would be for the boat to be downwind (South) of the start at least seven(?) points, and at any lateral (East/West) position. (I don't have the rules with me to checked the exact distance required)

As I understand it, this effectively means that the boats can be placed anywhere outside a rectangle that extends 3 points East and West of the start line, and 7 points South of the line.

Thread: Re: Add a Spinnaker!

Tradewinds Ted — 2008-06-24T00:17:32+00:00

taraba wrote:

With the forced moves, how are you handling it if there is another boat or buoy in your way?
....
It basically comes down to how to handle a move that doesn't give you the option to maneuver first.

This situation comes up even with the standard rules. When on a Broad Reach the actions are a Movement followed by an optional Maneuver, so if there is an obstacle directly in front of you, then you can't make the required initial move.

I don't have the rules with me for reference. I believe we have played this that the blocked boat does not make the initial move forward (as if the sails have been furled, or more likely just let loose and allowed to flog briefly), but after the skipped movement, the boat may make the maneuver. If the obstacle in front of the blocked boat is a buoy, then a penalty is assigned to that boat, while if the obstacle is another boat then any penalty is assigned based on right of way rules.

I'm not sure how we have played the Broad reach with a Spinnaker on the blocked boat, but I think that we did require the Spinnaker to be brought down, during the blocked forward motion action, since otherwise the Spinnaker would drive the boat forward.

Thread: Re: Moving puffs and lulls

Tradewinds Ted — 2008-06-23T23:48:10+00:00

I like this idea!

I have also thought the the puffs and lulls should move during the game as they would on the water, but hadn't gotten past the impracticality of shifting all the markers every turn, so I abandoned the idea.

This is a way to bring that aspect back into the game!

Now I want to make a new Wind die to indicate "Clockwise", "Counter-Clockwise", or "Puff/Lull" change.

I can't wait to try it out!

Thread: Re: Wind Shadow Questions

Tradewinds Ted — 2008-06-23T23:30:51+00:00

First question:
I'm not sure of the ruling on your first question, about windshadow from a boat crossing on an opposite tack. We have played it that the wind shadow token is placed, and must be avoided, but I agree with your logic that the windshadow effect would be only momentary. I can tell you though, that in a real sailboat, when someone crosses upwind of your boat, you definitely feel a brief but dramatic loss of wind pressure on your sails, which causes a change in speed, direction, or both.

Second question:
The Windshadow token OVER-RIDES the Gust token. I suppose it doesn't matter how strong the wind is, if the wind is blocked.

Thread: Re: Add a Spinnaker!

taraba — 2008-06-20T15:16:54+00:00

c) When running with the Spinnaker, first move forward one space, then either move forward again, or manuever. (Essentially the same as the normal Broad reach without the Spinnaker)
d) When on a Broad reach with the Spinnaker, move forward TWO spaces, then manuever if desired. (Essentially a faster version of the Broad reach without the Spinnaker)

With the forced moves, how are you handling it if there is another boat or buoy in your way? In the boat situation, I guess you can unfurl your sails, give them a penalty and wait for them to move. But if it's a buoy, then do you sit until a wind change? For example, lets say I'm running and I'm two away from a buoy. I plan to move then maneuver in to a broad reach to avoid the buoy. Before my turn, there's a wind change and it puts me in broad reach. So now I have a move 2 then maneuver. So I can unfurl sails and skip my move while still taking the maneuver? I guess I can be forced to take down my spinnaker according to the rules, but then let's put me in the situation where I'm one away from the buoy. All the rules for taking down the sails say to move then take down the sails.

It basically comes down to how to handle a move that doesn't give you the option to maneuver first.

Thread: Moving puffs and lulls

npcomplete — 2008-06-19T15:43:10+00:00

I've played this a few times with some of the folks that I regularly sail with (weekly races and occasional weekend regattas) and it's gone over quite well. However, everyone thinks it would be better if the puffs and lulls moved during the race. Since it is a little impractable to reposition all of the puff/lull counters in the middle of the race we came up with the following variant.

We use Tradewinds Ted's "Tame the Windshifts" varient with a slight modification. If the die roll for the windshift indicates no change then the puffs and lulls are "flipped", i.e. all the puffs become lulls and vice versa. To help keep track of which is which we place a counter matching the current puff counter onto (or near) the wind gauge.

This seems to work pretty well and can cause havoc with your nicely planed run along a series of puffs. Lots of fun!

By the way, we are also working on a variant to make when the wind changes might happen a bit less predictable. Any suggestions are welcome.

Thread: Wind Shadow Questions

taraba — 2008-06-16T16:59:52+00:00

First
Ok, here's the situation I'm not sure of. I have two boats traveling in port and starboard beam reach that pass near each other. Does the leeward boat get a wind shadow token even after the other boat has moved?

Why this is confusing is because the rules say:
Here the wind is blanketed, and all opponents who come up to this intersection are forced to put a yellow token on their course, 2 intersections ahead.
Which supports that the leeward boat would get one.

But then the next part in the rules says:
This token represents a kind of penalty, which will be applied if the boat remains in its opponent’s wind shadow.
Bold is my doing. That part makes it seem like I need to be moving in the same direction as my wind shadower. That point is never clarified if it is or isn't.

But then the very next sentence says:
The token can only be removed when the boat reaches it, or when the boat decides to manoeuvre in order to avoid it.
If I look at the board and what's happening in play, I see the leeward boat moves in next to the other boat, and puts down a wind shadow token. The other boat moves two locations away. Now the leeward boat can't do a move + move or it will hit this spot, but this penalty would be paid for a boat that's now 4 intersections away that it only briefly encountered. If I would get two whole moves running Bowline before I would have a penalty, then I'm guessing there's some momentum involved here and after I'm past the other boat my sails would fill and the token should be removed.

Second
What if I put a wind shadow token on a blue gust token? Do they cancel? So in the same situation as above and assuming that the token should remain. If I put this on a location two spots away that has a blue token and then reach it, I would think that my sails would certainly fill from the gust and cancel out the wind shadow to give me a normal move.

Thread: Re: Interesting game; bad components

taraba — 2008-06-13T18:00:55+00:00

Tradewinds Ted wrote:
I simply cut out a piece of thin clear plastic SMALLER than the length of the boats, but EQUAL in diameter to the side of one of the squares,

I happened to have translucent blue bingo spotters that were 7/8" diameter. So not as big as I could possibly go (the squares are 1 1/8") but the translucent blue (looks like a shadow) and the perfect circle already cut were a big plus. Even at this smaller diameter they do a lot to keep the boats upright. I sanded the bottoms of the boat and a boat sized width on the chips and used superglue.

Thanks for the tip Ted.

Thread: Starting position clarification

taraba — 2008-06-12T15:47:50+00:00

Can someone (maybe who knows real sailing rules) summarize the starting position restrictions? When the rules say "3 intersections from the buoy" does that mean only east/west distance or any direction? Could I set up 3 intersections north and one to the west of the buoy? Could the positions a few spots below boat B in figure 7 be used to start? Is this distance counted only in one direction or in both? Basically, does this draw arcs from the buoys or planes or corners?

Thread: Re: Tame the Windshifts

Tradewinds Ted — 2008-04-10T05:56:31+00:00

I like the idea of the fudge dice.

What I have actually done, is made a d6 with clockwise arrows (in green) on two sides, counterclockwise (in red) on two side, and two sides without arrows. I could make three more of these, and use them just like your fudge dice.

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

unixrevolution — 2008-04-09T01:16:42+00:00

Thanks for the advice, guys. I've been interested in sailing, but never took the plunge...so to speak.

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

Tradewinds Ted — 2008-04-09T01:05:29+00:00

unixrevolution wrote:

First, because i'm a victim of a consumerist society, and MUST have a boat.

Second, because I really don't like beer.

Sag has it right, if you just want to try out sailing you don't need to buy a boat.

(Of course my boat is different! My boat was a very wise investment!)

If you don't like beer (I don't either) just list "will grind for pizza" or "will grind for free" or whatever. (if you say "for beer" you will probably be picked up faster than "for free" though, as it suggests you are a typical sailor, and trust me: Everyone will be glad if you leave more beer for them!)

Seriously though, sail on other people's boats for a while before you ever buy one of your own. There is a tremendous difference between one boat and another, and none of the important stuff is obvious until you know what the various types are like to sail on. I don't know if you already know how to sail or not. If not then take a good intro to sailing class. It might cost, but good instruction is well worth it. And most classes are associated with sailing clubs too, so you will either meet people, or at least be able to rent a boat a few times. Don't rush out and buy a boat right after taking a class either. That isn't nearly long enough to get to know what you really want in a boat.

Learn about different types of boats, and think about what you want a boat to do, and whatever you do, don't buy a boat that doesn't fit what you want, or you won't be satisfied. I know, this isn't the first boat I bought. (One other tip, if you ever do buy a boat, buy something big enough that you can comfortably take a friend or too, but don't even consider anything that you are not comfortable sailing alone, or you will hardly ever use it.)

And of course you may find that you get all the sailing you want without ever buying, just as Sag has said!

That said, if you know what you are looking at, and you do find the boat that is just right for you, don't let any excuses keep you from buying it!

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

unixrevolution — 2008-04-08T22:26:32+00:00

Sagrilarus wrote:
unixrevolution wrote:
Tradewinds Ted wrote:
unixrevolution wrote:
I haven't gotten it to the table yet...my game group is put off by the "boaty language".

Ah, but the "boaty language" is part of the fun of learning to sail!
Knowing what you are talking about, and how to refer to things properly helps distinguish yourself as a true sailor, not just an idiot who just "drives" a boat around

.....

Note: I do sail my own sailboat, and have participated in some low-key local informal dingy races in several different types of small boats, BUT I have never participated in any type of official yacht race.

Ted,

Thanks for that very informative and insightful reply. That's probably the most useful thing anyone's said about this game

makes me want to buy a sailboat. Like i need another hobby.

Stand on the Chart House dock in Eastport on a Wednesday night with a cardboard sign that says "Will Grind For Beer." Why pay for a boat when someone else has done it for you?

Sag.

First, because i'm a victim of a consumerist society, and MUST have a boat.

Second, because I really don't like beer.

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

Sagrilarus — 2008-04-08T14:28:46+00:00

unixrevolution wrote:
Tradewinds Ted wrote:
unixrevolution wrote:
I haven't gotten it to the table yet...my game group is put off by the "boaty language".

Ah, but the "boaty language" is part of the fun of learning to sail!
Knowing what you are talking about, and how to refer to things properly helps distinguish yourself as a true sailor, not just an idiot who just "drives" a boat around

.....

Note: I do sail my own sailboat, and have participated in some low-key local informal dingy races in several different types of small boats, BUT I have never participated in any type of official yacht race.

Ted,

Thanks for that very informative and insightful reply. That's probably the most useful thing anyone's said about this game

makes me want to buy a sailboat. Like i need another hobby.

Stand on the Chart House dock in Eastport on a Wednesday night with a cardboard sign that says "Will Grind For Beer." Why pay for a boat when someone else has done it for you?

Sag.

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

unixrevolution — 2008-04-08T13:53:18+00:00

Tradewinds Ted wrote:
unixrevolution wrote:
I haven't gotten it to the table yet...my game group is put off by the "boaty language".

Ah, but the "boaty language" is part of the fun of learning to sail!
Knowing what you are talking about, and how to refer to things properly helps distinguish yourself as a true sailor, not just an idiot who just "drives" a boat around

.....

Note: I do sail my own sailboat, and have participated in some low-key local informal dingy races in several different types of small boats, BUT I have never participated in any type of official yacht race.

Ted,

Thanks for that very informative and insightful reply. That's probably the most useful thing anyone's said about this game

makes me want to buy a sailboat. Like i need another hobby.

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

Sagrilarus — 2008-04-08T01:49:27+00:00

Thank you all.

Sag.

Thread: Re: And Here I Thought Bowline was a Knot

Sagrilarus — 2008-04-08T01:45:51+00:00

What the game appears to be called a bow line is commonly called a lay-line on the race course, or close-hauled when not racing.

Sag.

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

Tradewinds Ted — 2008-04-07T22:16:34+00:00

unixrevolution wrote:
I haven't gotten it to the table yet...my game group is put off by the "boaty language".

Ah, but the "boaty language" is part of the fun of learning to sail!
Knowing what you are talking about, and how to refer to things properly helps distinguish yourself as a true sailor, not just an idiot who just "drives" a boat around.

Strictly speaking, I was a little put off by the atypical use of some of the nautical terms in the English translation of the rules. In particular, the point of sail that I know as "close-hauled" is described in the rules as travelling "on a bow-line."

On the original question, I like the game, although I haven't had the chance to play very many times yet. I suppose that other people in my game group are actually put off by the "boaty language" too. The rules can seem pretty confusing unless you are familiar with sailing, but they are actually pretty simple in practice. There are some confusing details about how to play right of way, but these can generally be reasoned through with a little common sense about how sailing rules actually work. (Besides, the niggling details about right of way cause many of the complaints in real sailing races, too!)

As Clearclaw noted, players often feel that they have little choice but to hold to their obvious optimum course throughout the longer legs, except when the wind shifts. Most of the action happens at the turns around the buoys. But this is fairly representative of real sailing.

Details worth noting about that:
1) Real wind shifts are generally more gradual. Sudden sustained shifts of wind direction of over 90 degrees are fairly rare on open water, even though they can happen. This is easily overcome by using a game variant where wnd shifts are limited to 45 degrees at a time toward the direction indicated by the die, rather than simply shifting the wind immediately to the direction indicated by the die.
2) I like that you can read the puffs and lulls in the wind by looking at the markers on the water, much like reading the wavelets on the water surface when sailing. The problem is that the static puffs and lulls indicated by the markers make it possible to calculate exactly what is your optimum path for the leg, until the wind shifts. in reality, these the puffs and lulls should gradually move, disappear, and form again over time. That really isn't practical in a board game though, and this works well enough.
3) I thought that the square grid board would be a problem, since the diagonal movements are longer than the orthogonal movements, but it didn't bother me as much as I though it would. I though about what a hex grid would do to the game; It would make the movements even, but the manuevers would become too coarse, with too few points of sail available.

One thing this game does surprisingly well is simulate a tacking duel, where you try to get to clear air whenever your opponent is upwind of your boat, and at the same time get right of way to manuever around them, or away from them.

The start can be a little uneven, which can be a turnoff in a match race, but with five boats it can be interesting!

I would like to make a plug for you to take a look at my suggested rule variant where you add a spinnaker. It seems to work well for me, although again I haven't had very many plays with it yet since my game group doesn't really know sailing, and therefor stayed with the basic game for now.

Note: I do sail my own sailboat, and have participated in some low-key local informal dingy races in several different types of small boats, BUT I have never participated in any type of official yacht race.

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

clearclaw — 2008-04-02T17:18:53+00:00

Sagrilarus wrote:
That appears to be an exact definition of match-racing...

True.

How about the start?

Also a dance, but not quite as interesting as the bout dance. Time it perfectly and you can get an insurmountable advantage.

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

Sagrilarus — 2008-04-02T13:56:51+00:00

clearclaw wrote:
As a sailing game it works well enough. The long legs tend to be rather programmatic: set a course and hew to it fairly obviously and optimally. Much of the game interest for me was in the right-of-way dances around the bouys. Those could be clever and interesting. One around the bouys the wind shifts are occasionally game-determining, which is annoying but probably unpreventable.

That appears to be an exact definition of match-racing, so I may be able to play this without wincing. How about the start?

Sag.

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

unixrevolution — 2008-04-02T13:12:32+00:00

I haven't gotten it to the table yet...my game group is put off by the "boaty language".

Thread: Re: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

clearclaw — 2008-04-02T07:24:38+00:00

As a sailing game it works well enough. The long legs tend to be rather programmatic: set a course and hew to it fairly obviously and optimally. Much of the game interest for me was in the right-of-way dances around the bouys. Those could be clever and interesting. One around the bouys the wind shifts are occasionally game-determining, which is annoying but probably unpreventable.

Thread: Yacht Racers on BGG -- is this any good?

Sagrilarus — 2008-04-02T03:04:52+00:00

Can anyone that races give me an impression on how well this plays? I'm a bit leery about buying it until I've heard from someone with sailing experience.

Sag.

Thread: Re: Tame the Windshifts

SabreRedleg — 2008-02-01T22:24:25+00:00

Another option - roll some Fudge dice (which have +, -, and blank sides). Each + means the wind shifts one point clockwise, - shifts counterclockwise. Anywhere from 1-4 dice would work; more dice will tend to typically collapse on the mean, but produce occasional large shifts in the wind.

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Odoren — 2008-01-04T10:45:26+00:00

Race the Wind (Essen 2007)

Thread: download rules pdf

chadgr — 2007-11-12T08:12:21+00:00

The Ghenos website has rules in several languages (including English) available for download as pdfs.

Try: http://www.ghenosgames.com/race/rules.html

Image

rdenning — 2007-10-22T15:24:51+00:00

Race the Wind at Essen

Thread: 2 player team race

mag74b — 2007-10-21T16:21:44+00:00

One of the best things about race the wind is that you can get into some serious overlap situations. However if you play with 2 players these situations occur less often. For this I find it is also possible to play a team race.

In a team race the rules stay the same, however each player has 2 boats instead of 1 and the player with the boat that finishes last looses the game.

Team races also exist in real sailing, and these races usually have more overlap situations than single boat races, because you can help your last boat by creating overlap situations and thus delaying your opponent

For example if you have one boat that is getting close to the finish line but your second boat is far behind the, instead of finishing, you will want to turn the first boat around to create an overlap situation with your opponents boat(s) to delay him, so your other boat has a chance to catch up.

Marcel

Thread: And Here I Thought Bowline was a Knot

ccarlet1 — 2007-09-26T02:08:18+00:00

I have never sailed, and don't know anything about it (where I live in Canada it is a long way from the ocean or the Great Lakes). I always thought it would be cool to sail, or at least learn something about it, so what better way to do that than with a boardgame--any excuse to buy a game.

There were a few terms to learn, but the game's rules were quite simple, and we really enjoy this very different kind of racing game.

The board is quite large, and we randomly set out blue counters (representing gusts of wind), and yellow counters (representing calms).
These add a lot to how you navigate as they give you extra movement, or cause you to lose a turn.

We decided to make a triangular course this time, with a single upwind buoy at the north end of the board and one on the east side of the board.

Start:

Wind: North

You have seven moves before you actually cross the starting line, which is between the committee boat and a buoy. My wife started above the start line, and I started in line with it. By the end of the seventh turn we were both poised to cross the line in bowline (45 degrees to the wind).

Lap 1:

Wind: North

The race consists of rounding the upwind buoy, at the far end of the board, three times, but in this case there was also an extra buoy midway. Four times on each trip round the buoy there is a wind direction change (triggered when the first boat passes a wind change flag), for at least 12 in total (see below for other wind changes).

I don't have a clear idea on what the best stategy is, but when the wind is coming from the north, you can only move forward at a slow pace, or move laterally at a much faster pace. We both manouevered out far to the west before my wife hit the first wind change marker.

Wind: North-West

I was now in beam-reach (wind at 90 degrees to the boat) and moved rapidly toward the first buoy. Penny was caught facing the wind, so I pulled ahead while she manouevered into beam-reach. I found myself headed into a calm, so I too had to change tack before triggereing another wind change.

Wind: West

Now we both headed toward the upwind buoy at high speed in beam reach. Penny pulled ahead when she caught a wind gust and gained the inside track around the buoy. Being the first to round it, she triggered a wind change (this occurs if the wind is blowing from the east or west when rounding the upwind buoy).

Wind: North

I managed to pull a head slightly as I headed further east than Penny to round the second buoy, and triggered another wind change.

Wind: South-East

We were both caught on bowline initially, but being the first to round the buoy, I gained on Penny and turned 90 degrees to the wind.

Wind: West

Penny was now catching up again. I opted to go around the committee boat (counterclockwise), reasoning that I might have a better line on the next trip to the upwind buoy. Penny rounded on the opposite side.

Lap 2:

I now had a good lead, and was the first to reach the change of wind direction flag.

Wind: East

I still had to head further west in order to round the first bouy, while my wife was now able to take a more direct line, and she gained on me.

Wind: South-West

The wind change caught us both on broad reach (135 degrees to the wind). Penny had managed to get a better line again and was making big gains, although I still managed to be the first to round the buoy.

Wind: South-West

Heading to the second buoy, I went quite far east, whereas Penny caught a few wind gusts, and very briefly took the lead. It seemed that things had been proceeding pretty slowly, until we had another wind change.

Wind North-West

It was easy sailing in beam reach for both us, but I lost the lead when I had to navigate around a series of calms. Penny rounded the committee boat, while I chose the buoy.

Lap 3:

Penny took advantage of beam reach after rounding the boat and headed very far east. I took a more direct route, but Penny gained on me, although she was headed to the wrong side of the board. But when he wind changed . . .

Wind: North

She was able to move rapidly to the west side and maintain her lead, while I struggled along in bowline.

Wind: West

This was much better for me than Penny, as I now headed forward in beam reach. I managed to round the upwind buoy first, triggering an extra wind change.

Wind: North

It was all coming down to how we manouevered around the second buoy, and it a very close race. The next wind change was no change at all.

Wind: North

I had headed further out (east) than Penny, and that allowed me to extend my lead when I rounded the second buoy.

Wind: Northeast

Penny caught up some, but as we neared the finish line, my victory was a mathematical certainty.

This is a very interesting racing game. You have a lot of choices about how you want to run the course, and the best route is not always obvious: it's all in the angles.

I also like that there are no dice. With only two of us racing we only had two instances where we had to discuss right of way, but in other races we have had more--especially rounding buoys. We've only played this game about six times, and all but one of our races was very close.

Thread: Re: Add a Spinnaker!

Tradewinds Ted — 2007-09-17T20:43:42+00:00

Thanks Xavier!

I agree that limiting movement to 45 degrees would be good. The way I wrote the rules there really wasn't any cost in speed to gybe directly from a Broad Reach on one tack to a Broad Reach on the opposite tack every turn if you wanted to.

As for thinking up the rules: I was inspired by the old 3M game Regatta, which allowed the use of spinnaker when sailing downwind. Raising and lower this sail was indicated by a card which could be flipped over, at the cost of one movement/manuever. When the Spinnaker was up, it would allow the boat to travel an extra space on each downwind movement leg. I think that Race the Wind gives a better feel for a close tacking duel than Regatta though, so I wanted to bring this missing piece over into the new game. Your suggestion about limiting to 45 degree turns adds the other missing piece, of a speed cost for frequent gybing.

I still haven't gotten around to making the Clip-on Spinnakers I mentioned previously, that is why there are no pictures yet. I've been too busy sailing!

My boat is a beautiful little 4.5 meter long wooden daysailer, but she is wide, with a 1.8 meter beam, and therefore slow. She has an old style sprit-sloop rig. which handles well, but doesn't point as high into the wind as a more modern rig. Comfortable and stable for an afternoon or evening sail, or possibly even sleeping (camping) overnight. Definitely NOT a racing boat - I joined in an informal Dinghy race Saturday and was lucky to finish in time to get last place! It would be silly to put a Spinnaker on her.

Thread: Re: How does this game differ from Regatta?

Tradewinds Ted — 2007-09-17T07:16:41+00:00

It isn't very different, but it isn't the same either.
The two games do have much the same feel. Should you get both? I also wondered whether to buy the newer game as well, but I do like it now that I have it. I feel that with the variant rules I have added for reduced wind shifts and adding in Spinnakers, Race the Wind does a better job of simulating sailing races, because it emphasizes the tacking duels. Without these variant rules each game has its own strengths and weaknesses.

It is actually pretty easy to use Race the Wind rules with the Regatta pieces, you just have to get a supply of chits in two colors to indicate the puffs and lulls. But the boats in Race the wind are certainly prettier.

Similarities:
1)Allowable movement and manuevers determined by the wind, with reasonable simulation of the movement abilities of sailboats.
2)Movement on a square grid, without regard to the difference in distance along the diagonal !!!!
3)Right of way rules that reasonably simulate real sailboat race rules.
4)The race course is open to be set up anyway the players agree, but generally "Upwind-Downwind three times around" is standard, or maybe a triangle course.

Differences:
1) Wind speed:
a) In Regatta, the wind strength varies from one to three, depending on a die roll, and you may also add in a "puff" card a few (three?) times whenever you choose.
b) in Race the Wind the wind strength remains the same, but the game board is covered with a numbe of small blue and yellow markers that represent "puffs" and "lulls" available to everyone. These might symbolize the ripples or calm areas one looks for on the surface of the water when sailing to determine where the wind might be stronger.
2)Wind direction:
a) In Regatta, the wind direction changes frequently, based on the die roll, but only changes 45 degrees at a time.
b) In Race the Wind, the wind direction changes whenever the leading boat reaches each of several fixed points in the race. Then a die is rolled and the wind could shift to ANY direction. NOTE: many have suggested that restricting this to 45 degrees of movement makes more sense, and this is what I do myself.
3)Port vs Starboard Tack position:
a) in Regatta, the heeling (leaning) caused by the angled bottom of the boat indicates whether the boat is on port or starboard tack, and it costs one movement point to change tacks.
b) In Race the Wind the boat bottoms are flat. There is not really a penalty for changing tacks, but is does cost one manuever to turn. Determining Port or Starboard tack for the purpose of right-of-way requires reference to the current wind direction. Note also that the boats fall over too easily, but that can be fixed by taping/gluing a small thin disk of clear plastic to the base of each boat. (I cut mine out of the packaging of a dress shirt.) Make the disks the same diameter as the length of one side of the squares on the board, and they will never interfere with each other.
4) Boat speed:
a) in Regatta the boats can travel quite a distance in a single turn, if the wind speed is high.
b) In Race the Wind, there is less movement each turn, often just one space, but this keeps the tacking duels tight and realistic, a detail that is largely lost in Regatta.
5) Wind Shadow:
a) in Regatta, if you are 1 space directly downwind of another boat you lose one movement, period. This can create some odd results depending on turn order.
b) in Race the wind, a chit is placed two spaces ahead of any boat that is one space downwind of another. they must turn before they reach that chit, or they get their own personal wind lull. This makes wind blanketing independent of turn order, as it should be, by giving you a chance to try and reach clear air.
6)Spinnakers:
a)Regatta has them.
b)Race the wind doesn't. But I wrote up variant rules to add Spinnakers to Race the wind, which aren't very complicated to use. Have a look! (I haven't seen anyone comment on them yet)
7)Islands:
a) Regatta (3M) had islands pieces to break up the course, and shoreline shapes printed on the edges.
B) Race the Wind doesn't. Again, it wouldn't be hard to make something.

Thread: Re: How a penalty is paid?

Tradewinds Ted — 2007-09-17T05:40:00+00:00

If you incur a penalty then you must do the following at some time to clear the penalty before you complete the race:
1. Declare that you are clearing the penalty. (This isn't a turn in itself, you just say what you are doing as you start the first manuever.)
2. Manuever your boat a full 360 degrees. Note that this does not necesarily mean turning in place. On each turn you must make a leagal move/manuever based on your current direction. From some positions, such as a broad reach, you MUST move prior to turning, so there may be some forward movement during some of the turns you take as you maneuver around the full 360 degrees.

You will find that turning 360 degrees takes at least 4 turns, no matter what position you start from. (Occasionally a wind shift may make it easier or more difficult.)

Penalties are cleared one at a time, so if you manage to get more than one penalty, then you will have to make more than one turn. Each one is independent, and each one is 360 degrees.

By the way, if you are in the middle of a penalty turn you do not have priority of movement over other boats, even if you would normally have priority due to starboard, or leeward position etc., and the penalty turn must not be within the 2 space zone around a turning buoy either. That is part of the reason you have to declare that you are making a penalty turn.

Not sure how clearly any of this is written in the rules, but these are all common rules in sailboat racing.

I have found that it is useful to print out some simple cards with red penalty flags on them. When you incur a penalty you take one of the flag cards, and later when you clear the penalty you dicard that card. This help to keep track of how many penalties each boat has, and whether they have been cleared yet.

Thread: Re: Add a Spinnaker!

gzavatwar — 2007-09-16T15:40:39+00:00

Your rules seem quite fine! I wish I would have imagined them first ;-)

That said, I have an enhancement idea: I think that limiting maneuvering to 45° while sailing with the Spinnaker up is both realistic and an interesting limitation to using the Spinnaker compared to its benefits in speed.

Cheers,
Xavier

Thread: Re: Rules?

fnord23 — 2007-09-13T01:15:54+00:00

The rules are actually remarkably simple. The complexity of the game comes from the interactions of the players with each other, and with the game conditions.

That said, I don't know where you can see them online.

You can, however, get a pretty good idea of what the rules convey from looking at the player aids that have been posted.

Thread: Re: How does this game differ from Regatta?

Kara31 — 2007-09-11T03:56:59+00:00

I had the same question. My dad love's Regatta. We played it all the time growing up. Board seems prettier. I was wondering if it is worth buying for dad's Christmas present or is it the same as regatta?

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Eric Haas — 2007-09-08T17:49:28+00:00

John, Stan, and I play Race the Wind.

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Eric Haas — 2007-09-08T17:48:56+00:00

John, Stan, and I play Race the Wind.

Thread: How does this game differ from Regatta?

nvrsaynvr — 2007-09-08T16:21:48+00:00

Regatta seemed a pretty clever game, with fixed moves against a (slowly) changing wind direction, and it had spinnacker rules... How is this game different, better, worse?

Thread: Rules?

GeoMan — 2007-09-07T10:58:06+00:00

The rules are not available at the official site (although the site has links to them, they are dead).

Since it is not a simple game, i'd like to take a look at the rules to decide if it is worth buying. Anyone knows where i can get the English rules or can email them?

Thanks!

Thread: How a penalty is paid?

kastel — 2007-09-07T09:58:03+00:00

What exactly does "The penalty is paid in 4 moves, swivelling round by 360 deg." mean? What about for more than one penalty?

Thread: Re: Interesting game; bad components

frankinla — 2007-09-06T21:30:07+00:00

I'm sure you'll like it, Rob. I enjoy simulation games where you learn real-life information like the sailing right-of-way rules in this game. A sailing fan like you probably knows them already, so the game will come easily to you. Once I get around to tending to the boat problem, I'll read through the rules again and take it to my gaming group for a big race.

Thread: Re: Interesting game; bad components

Spacehulk — 2007-09-02T23:51:25+00:00

Thanks for the review. Even with knowing about the components I ordered anyway. I guess I'm just a sucker for the theme. My wife and I enjoy watching the America's Cup and I thought this game would be fun for us and I hope it still is.

Maybe I will have to do something about the boats before the first game so I don't turn off the oterh participants.

Thread: Re: Wind Shift Effect Query

frankinla — 2007-08-23T07:02:23+00:00

John Weber wrote:
Say the wind shift die creates a situation where a boat is sailing directly into the wind. What happens?

The boat gets one maneuver (turn) from that position (p. 18, 1st paragraph).

Frank in L.A.

Thread: Wind Shift Effect Query

John Weber — 2007-08-23T05:03:32+00:00

just got the game, trying to figure out, came up with a question I didn't see addressed anywhere in the rules or here on the Geek:

Say the wind shift die creates a situation where a boat is sailing directly into the wind. What happens?

Thread: Re: Figure 11 - a question And Figure 10

frankinla — 2007-08-17T07:18:14+00:00

Nanich wrote:
Figure 11: A and B have starboard tacks, are on the same wind line. A is faster, and therefore is entitled to the indicated intersection.

This is clear. It is 'A''s turn he can claim the space. Now if 'A' moves into the space, but also turns and puts himself on a port tack, could 'B' then claim a penalty against 'A' on 'B''s turn? 'A' will be on a starboard tack, while B is on a port tack. Starboard tack rules over Port tacks.

Figure 10: boat A is leeward and so has priority; therefore it is entitled to the indicated intersection.

But when A moves into the space, then both A and B are on the same tack and the distance downwind. 'B' is faster, then could claim piority?

- d

If I'm understanding the rules correctly, on your Fig. 11 question, there would be no penalty against 'A'. 'A' had priority back when his position was an "available intersection", so he owns it. Tough darts for 'B'. He'll have to turn or stop. As far as I can tell, the only time you would have to resolve a contest for an occupied intersection is when the boats are on the same course, one behind the other, which they are not in this case. (I find this all confusing myself also, but that's my guess and I'm sticking to it. )

I think it's the same situation for your Fig. 10 question. 'A' had priority over the available point, and takes it. 'B' is on broad reach and has to move forward, but he would ram 'A', so he must drop sails and stop. 'A' was entitled to the point so I don't think 'B' has any right to bitch about it.

Frank in L.A.

Thread: Re: Figure 11 - a question And Figure 10

Nanich — 2007-08-17T06:02:33+00:00

arruga wrote:
If A goes first and changes to port tack (STARBOARD TACK HAS THE PRIORITY), then B has the priority and may claim a penalty.

If B goes first and occupy the blue point, then A may claim a penalty (SAME TACK, FASTER BOAT). In this case, although B is leeward because she moved first, what counts is the position before B's turn.

To avoid rules conflicts you need to evaluate the conditions in the following order (strongest to weakest)

1/ STARBOARD TACK
2/ LEEWARD
3/ SPEED

(see recap on page 23)

This is pretty much the same as ISAF regatta rules, in an internet search you'll find plenty of references.

I hope my lack of English hasn't beleaguered you even more.

No sorry your answer does not help. I am not sure which figures you are discussing. I understand ISAF regatta rules; however, in real sailing there is not a turn order, everyone just sails at the same time.

You say"

To avoid rules conflicts you need to evaluate the conditions in the following order (strongest to weakest)

1/ STARBOARD TACK
2/ LEEWARD
3/ SPEED "

But when do you do this?

- n

Thread: Re: What's the spinning arrow for?

frankinla — 2007-08-11T01:00:31+00:00

It's just an indicator of which way the wind is currently blowing. I start out with it sitting on the compass rose thingy. During the game, I found myself picking it up and moving it closer to the action which made it easier for my pea brain to visualize just what angle it was hitting the little boats from.

Frank in L.A.

Thread: Re: What's the spinning arrow for?

jjloc — 2007-08-11T00:51:17+00:00

It is mentioned in the rules one time listed as the "vane", believe it is in the set up portion says to put it north of the starting line.

Kind of dumb that it is a spinner like thing but I believe it is only used to determine what direction the wind is blowing after you roll the die.

Thread: What's the spinning arrow for?

kennylibido — 2007-08-10T23:32:30+00:00

Just picked up Race the Wind. I see all of the other components listed but not the two-piece arrow-shaped spinner. It looks as if it is intended to mount through a hole in the cardboard game board and then have the arrow part snap into it in order to have a Twister-type directional arrow. However, there is no pre-drilled hole on the game board that I can find unless I'm not looking closely enough. It does not have a base of sufficient heft such that it is intended as a stand-alone spinner.

What is this damn thing, what's it for, and where does it go?

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Image

AbeLincoln — 2007-06-13T05:53:43+00:00

The boats in a Match Race round the buoy...

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AbeLincoln — 2007-06-13T05:50:28+00:00

Boat Parade!

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Alfredo Genovese — 2007-06-10T07:13:47+00:00

Race the Wind cover

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Alfredo Genovese — 2007-06-10T07:09:22+00:00

Race the Wind