Game: Mutant Chronicles Collectible Miniatures Game

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Dignan — 2008-09-05T12:54:42+00:00

Geosphere wrote:

I prefer making armies based on the limited selection, much like a general realizing the troops he has are not the crack team he requested.

I prefer buying 1 booster for the same cash and having the game group split the cost and contents by faction (even if sometimes someone gets shorted - its just more fun).

I prefer building armies on hand after going to the store, not before hand, and then limiting my selection based on cash.

I prefer the surprise of a rare rather than the choice.

I prefer getting a ton of common goons by accident and seeing if I can shape them into a reasonable force.

I prefer NOT being shown every choice and wanting them all, thereby spending more money, rather than admit I'll never get them all and only buy a few.

I prefer getting some off faction guys just to experiment with and not have to choose an army for them.

I have always preferred collecty blind purchase and have written about it repeatedly.

I still do.

You could have simply said "I prefer to have less choice". That would have been quicker.

You can still do most of the above mentioned statements with open blister purchases. For example, I am running a Heroscape tournament were there are very strict army build requirements (300 points, one hero between 50-150 points, at least 1 unit, etc). I've seen many events where people who have access to all the units limit their available choices artificially. One of my favorite Heroscape events was a draft tournament where each player brought figures only from 3 blister packs and made a draft pool with his opponent. It made for a very interesting event.

My point is, you should be able to have your cake and eat it to. Of course, there is no getting that rush of pulling an ultra rare out of a pack. So I guess you can't have everything.

Happy gaming.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Geosphere — 2008-09-05T11:44:28+00:00

avyssaleos wrote:
I really can't grasp is that someone would prefer to spend a huge amount of $ in blind-boosters instead of having the option to pick up exactly what he wants.

I prefer making armies based on the limited selection, much like a general realizing the troops he has are not the crack team he requested.

I prefer buying 1 booster for the same cash and having the game group split the cost and contents by faction (even if sometimes someone gets shorted - its just more fun).

I prefer building armies on hand after going to the store, not before hand, and then limiting my selection based on cash.

I prefer the surprise of a rare rather than the choice.

I prefer getting a ton of common goons by accident and seeing if I can shape them into a reasonable force.

I prefer NOT being shown every choice and wanting them all, thereby spending more money, rather than admit I'll never get them all and only buy a few.

I prefer getting some off faction guys just to experiment with and not have to choose an army for them.

I have always preferred collecty blind purchase and have written about it repeatedly.

I still do.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

avyssaleos — 2008-09-05T07:43:58+00:00

Thank you for all the background info Paul.

However, what I really can't grasp is that someone would prefer to spend a huge amount of $ in blind-boosters instead of having the option to pick up exactly what he wants. Even if they cost 20$ (which I agree is really high) it is much better than spending them on a booster and then realizing you got nothing out of it since all you got was a duplicate rare. I stopped playing CCGs mostly because of that reason.

And claiming that trading would solve this problem couldn't be more inaccurate. How many people are you gonna find in your area that play the same game and have enough miniatures to trade them for you? If it were Magic: The Gathering I could see it happening, but this game has a much more limited target group.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

MrSkeletor — 2008-09-05T04:23:45+00:00

How reliable is all of this 'background' stuff?

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Skiprydell — 2008-09-05T01:47:27+00:00

Actually, it is negative compared with your original examination of the starter game set. The crucial change being your comments about why only a small number of figures are being released with the starter set. I had noticed the odd fact that there are only 10 (or so) different figure castings total for the initial release. I hadn't considered why they would do that. If accurate, then it bodes ill for the future of the game. Still, I am planning on picking it up....should it ever actually materialize in Vegas.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Gyges — 2008-09-04T21:14:55+00:00

Geosphere wrote:
reapersaurus wrote:
Paul, you are one of the few guys with any insider information that doesn't BS, spin, and politicize/market out the wazoo.

Thanks.

BTW, I hear my latest game, Aapep will be used to forge world peace if enough copies are sold.

Shilling, like many other endeavours, is an art form when done well.
Ladies and gentleman, I present to you a true artist.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Guantanamo — 2008-09-04T20:21:05+00:00

Brother Gunn wrote:
It would be nice to have some posting and info flow from Erik Lind on the FFG Mutant Chronicles message boards. There have been no changes in the Figure of the Day for quite a while also.

I agree the game itself is fun with great mechanics, but MAN! who let that rulebook get through like that?

Oh well, I've got my proxies... As soon as some nice figures come out I'll be picking some up.

Hope they sell extra dice seperate also.

Brother Gunn

They wanted to recapture the feel of Warzone: Universe Under Siege

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Brother Gunn — 2008-09-04T19:26:22+00:00

It would be nice to have some posting and info flow from Erik Lind on the FFG Mutant Chronicles message boards. There have been no changes in the Figure of the Day for quite a while also.

I agree the game itself is fun with great mechanics, but MAN! who let that rulebook get through like that?

Oh well, I've got my proxies... As soon as some nice figures come out I'll be picking some up.

Hope they sell extra dice seperate also.

Brother Gunn

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Geosphere — 2008-09-04T19:15:53+00:00

reapersaurus wrote:
Paul, you are one of the few guys with any insider information that doesn't BS, spin, and politicize/market out the wazoo.

Thanks.

BTW, I hear my latest game, Aapep will be used to forge world peace if enough copies are sold.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

reapersaurus — 2008-09-04T19:10:35+00:00

Paul, you are one of the few guys with any insider information that doesn't BS, spin, and politicize/market out the wazoo.

It is incredibly refreshing.

Keep it up, please.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Geosphere — 2008-09-04T19:09:54+00:00

Dorque wrote:
And thanks for the official reveal.

I am in no way officially connected to FFG. Do not consider this any sort of notice by FFG. As with a reporter, I will not say anything revealing my sources. I have already received several PMs asking me who gave me all of the info. I will not respond positively or negatively.

This review is in no way officially endorsed by FFG and due to my respect for them as a company and all involved in the game, I will not divulge further.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Dorque — 2008-09-04T18:21:00+00:00

Geosphere wrote:
Skiprydell wrote:
If the negative reviews keep up,

I'm really not sure this is a negative review.

Perhaps a portentious warning.

As a non-collectible guy, I definitely read this as a positive review. I will buy the starter set on day one and do my foamboard-minis thing and get a full set of doods. I can see playing this game a lot. I love tactical squad games (like my cardstock Dreamblade triple set). Counters for doods solves the map markings concern too.

Selfishly, I hope that expansions get released as decks of cards and extra maps. The game shouldn't have to die just because the minis were stillborn.

And thanks for the official reveal. I really hope everybody comes through this okay too. (Well, the designers and artists at least. Marketing and producers can suck it.)

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Geosphere — 2008-09-04T17:08:10+00:00

Skiprydell wrote:
If the negative reviews keep up,

I'm really not sure this is a negative review.

Perhaps a portentious warning.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Geosphere — 2008-09-04T17:07:18+00:00

volnon wrote:
Thanks for the really excellent bit of writing, Paul. ... the same negative feel

Thanks.

Yeah, its really a negative feel about the game more than the game itself at this point.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

Skiprydell — 2008-09-04T16:52:20+00:00

Another cloudburst like this and the clowns and the band are going to quit my parade.

I think you are right about the background. And I think it raises an interesting point about just where "collectible" starts being more "efficient" than non-collectible. So far, I'm still on the side of non-collectible, but I can see there is price point where that would change.

I'm just frustrated about not being able to actually get my hands on a playing copy (I've seen the flgs display copy). Right now it looks like it will be another week at least. If the negative reviews keep up, I might not end up buying it at all.

FFG really screwed this one up. I predict it will not be the only one.

Thread: Re: A look behind the scenes.

volnon — 2008-09-04T16:16:52+00:00

I kept looking at this game, put in in and then out of my cart at Thought Hammer, then in and out. I put it in and out again just a few days ago...

I just have a bad feeling about this game. Maybe it is because of the comparison with the old Mutant Chronicles game. Maybe it was all the delays. Maybe it was the weird scale of the figures. Maybe I have ESP.

I don't know. I mean, I love plastic figures in games, but this whole thing has bugged me.

Thanks for the really excellent bit of writing, Paul. It did, as you stated, allow me to get a glimpse behind the scenes.

Sadly, I am getting the same negative feel with the Tannhauser Expansion. How long has THAT been delayed as well?

Thread: A look behind the scenes.

Geosphere — 2008-09-04T15:28:04+00:00

I reviewed the components here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/333177

The verdict on components: usable, if overall unimpressive, especially for a game so strongly based in bits.

First, lets get a few things out of the way, to clear things up.

The launch of this game is botched. Badly. Perhaps beyond repair.

Among the problems is the way the game was changed from a blind booster format to prepackaged army units.

If anyone out there thinks this is due to market pressure or research or a change of heart by FFG, well ... no.

Mounting production problems of three stooges proportions resulted in a sudden scramble after the game had been delayed an absurd number of times. People got fired.

After an astounding number of delays and months, the product was unusable. Raise your hand if you truly think that they ordered blind boosters, passed the drop dead release date and THEN decided to repackage them and change the format. OK, if you raised that hand, please smack yourself with it. The solution was to do an emergency repackaging of the units that were 'acceptable'. As I mentioned in my component review, even those components are not what I would classify as acceptable, so you can imagine the quality of the units they are holding back to make more acceptable.

The staggered release of factions is not by design, but by production necessity. This renders much of the game unplayable at release except by proxy. You simply cannot play al the factions right now. The way units are packaged - absurd. You pay $20 to get what was a rare and 2 guys. Often the same two guys from the starter. And often the same two guys from one prepack to the next. The units were produced for the original ratio of commons to rares, and they still have truckloads of commons to get rid of. Therefore, rather than you blind purchase and get the duplicate commons, you will get them knowing full well you paid $20 fo a single figure and 2 you will not use and cannot trade because everyone else has the same guys. The increase in the per unit cost (3 guys instead of 4) makes up for the new packaging, and ends up being quite expensive to field the army you want, where originally a few trades from boosters would have done nicely. You want ONE more of a specific dude for your army build? $20. There will be some weird trading as certain units lose value just because how they got packaged with a guy everyone wants.

FFG has done the best they can to keep this game from imploding under its own production problems.

And the really, truly unfortunate thing is that underneath all of the absurd logistical crap that went on, there's a nice game here.

I will repeat this.

Production problems and pricing and the horror of putting together a usable army aside -

the game is good.

The real problem here is whether or not the production problems will overshadow the gameplay.

I have no idea.

The Mutant Chronicles is a rich dark world of technology and magic. I don't care. Whatever. There's dudes with tentacles, hover bikes and fanatical priests. That's cool enough for me.

I was prepared to hate the game. After all of the problems, how could it be good? Hell, there are ERRORS in the rule book, and after this many years of delay, NO ONE bothered to read it?

Again, I'm slipping into production problems, and I really want to get on to game play.

Army building is interesting. There are 3 grades. Let's call the brown, white and yellow, because that's what they are. If a game is 5/5/5, you get 5 brown things, 5 white and 5 yellow. Those things can be either minis, cards or order tokens to let you actually move and fight. If you don't want any cards on your team, go right ahead and take a bigger army. Its theoretically balanced. Theoretically.

On any turn, you activate 2 dudes, then the other guy does and so on until you each run out of dudes or order tokens. With a level 1 order token a dude can do one thing. Like move, or fight, or use a card, or guard. Level 2 allows 2 things, as long as they aren't the same. You can guess what a level 3 does.

Orders can also 'buy back' used cards.

I'm... iffy... on the cards. You use one of your army slots to maybe increase a guys speed. If you want to use it again, you have to buy it back. While the cards are neat and have coolo effects and such, some of them just aren't worth the guy you could have fielded instead. See, that guy is there at least as a meat shield every turn, even if he does nothing. On the other hand, a card may simply never get used. And if it does, it might only be once.

On the other hand, when a card is used to full effect, its very nice. Right now, I'm leaning towards them being 80% fluff and flavor.

Combat is a bastardization of Doom/Descent. Roll some colorful dice as shown on your guys unit card. Take the HIGHEST number only (and man, there aren't many), don't add them up. IF your target is in that range, do damage equal to the little boom icons. The short range simulates the literal fog of war, confusion and such. The range might be too short in some cases, being you can never shoot clear across the fairly small map.

Reroll skills are POWERFUL. Armor is POWERFUL. Special actions on characters are usually interesting, and sometimes, like the cards, useless. Reroll and armor, and to some degree, accuracy (add to a die roll), are the things you want your team to have.

One hugely interesting thing about the starter set is that it comes with stat cards for what was supposed to be the first release block. This means proxy away.

The map is not huge, but movement is only 4 spaces for most units, and it works fairly well. The markings on the map are terrible. Its hard to see if someone is in cover because their base obscures the markings that were hard to read in the first place.

Again, that's a component/production problem. When properly used, cover and guarding and moving from barrier to barrier and having your flying guys screw up the other teams plan work really well.

It feels like really tight forced combat firefighting. It plays super fast. Once an army is constructed, a 3/3/3 skirmish is 15 minutes.

Going up to 10/10/10 fights adds a ton of units. The map gets small and way crowded. You can't so much as choose your opponents as be forced to funnel into certain situations. A double sized map is really needed once you get 10 guys per team out there. You could reasonably run a 10/10/10 team of 15 minis, several of which are double based.

Thank god in this future grenades seem to be a rare technology, or your clumped horde would be taking massive casualties.

Larger armies add victory zones which give bonuses an abilities of various sorts when held, making the game a bit more than beat the snot out of the other guy.

In practical play, we found snot beating more fun and an easier way to win. Victory zones basically become focal points for fights.

So far, games seem fairly well balanced. I would lean more in figs and tokens than cards, but that may change.

Absurd problems aside, I wish FFG all the best in keeping this beast alive. Some big maps, some nice new units (Karak - originally planned as a later expansion has already been released at cons MONTHS before the primary units are to be released now, so who knows what's coming).

If this were a new company, I have very little doubt that this would be the last game they produced.

Will this become a viable game or will it be selling in clearance after Christmas? Especially facing the approaching juggernaut of WoW Minis?

Tough question. If it can be resurrected from its terrible birth, FFG and new line coordinator Erik Lind (of Confrontation et al) are probably the better suited to the task than anyone out there. Only the market will hold the answer, but I'm afraid it won't be good news for the continuation of the product. I hope my hunch is wrong.

Thread: Re: Mutant Chronicles Review

Vydar — 2008-09-04T12:41:10+00:00

Yes, FFG is planning on organized play tournaments, but they do not have anything set up yet. They even have a forum devoted entirely to "Organized Play" on the MC website.

Here is a thread where they were discussing ideas for tournament formats with the fan-base:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/mcforums/posts/list/6736.p...

The line coordinator was recently replaced, so it's hard to say where things stand at this point.

Thread: Re: Mutant Chronicles Review

greasy_granny — 2008-09-04T06:06:17+00:00

Hi I'm new here and this is actually my first post.
I picked up the MC starter at Dragon Con because it looked pretty awesome. I just moved to this town and hope I can get some of these guys to play it. Heroclix seems to be the only thing they play around here and it's irritating to lose all the time because I didn't spend several hundred dollars fishing through boosters.
Does fantasy flight intend on sponsoring tournaments or anything like that? Does anyone know?

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uiek — 2008-09-03T21:01:09+00:00

Capitol vs. Algeroth - 10/10/10 game

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Skiprydell — 2008-08-29T16:57:42+00:00

According to the owner, they will ship next week....so theoretically arriving at the end of next week or the week after (Sept 10ish?).

But I know what you mean.....

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Geosphere — 2008-08-28T19:11:58+00:00

Skiprydell wrote:
I ordered a starter set based on what I saw.

Good luck on that since ANOTHER release date just whistled past us and the game is still not available.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Skiprydell — 2008-08-27T23:03:50+00:00

Just my 2 cents: I stopped at my flgs today and took a look at their sample starter set. I have to say that I was fairly impressed. I would give the map a B (it was decently attractive and sturdy for an unmounted map) and the cards/dice/counters an A-/B+ (typical FFG quality).

Regarding the figures: I've read a lot of criticism of the figures on the Geek so I was very interested in seeing them in person. Frankly, I was impressed. I did not see any significant painting problems (other than some of the colors chosen were a bit dull- grays, greens, browns, etc). There was little overpainting. I thought they looked good. They are very nice figures, and not as rubbery as I expected based on several comments. They are, of course, 54mm, which I would not have chosen myself (I would have preferred 35mm like Tannhauser). However, they did not strike me as "huge". Just larger than my Tannhauser and my AT-43 stuff (but when you factor in the vehicles and armored suits, AT-43 sometimes doesn't feel all that small either). I would give the figures a solid B, perhaps a B+.

I ordered a starter set based on what I saw.

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nullstate — 2008-08-25T14:43:59+00:00

GenCon 2008 - First Corporate Wars tourney - winners

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nullstate — 2008-08-25T14:40:27+00:00

Ezoghoul vs. Rangers

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nullstate — 2008-08-25T14:39:52+00:00

Karak the Keeper close-up

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nullstate — 2008-08-25T14:38:46+00:00

Gomorrian Emasculator

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nullstate — 2008-08-25T14:38:14+00:00

Alakhai the Cunning

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nullstate — 2008-08-25T14:37:40+00:00

Golem of Ice

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nullstate — 2008-08-25T14:36:03+00:00

Gomorrian Emasculator close-up

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nullstate — 2008-08-25T14:34:11+00:00

Karak the Keeper

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nullstate — 2008-08-25T14:33:45+00:00

Ezoghoul close-up

Thread: Re: Mutant Chronicles Review

KennKong — 2008-08-22T02:02:34+00:00

It would probably be easier for me to list the things I didn’t like about this game, than to list all the things I like about it….but frankly, I’m not sure what I don’t alike about it. The map, maybe. It’s a nice map, don’t get me wrong, but flat. I love playing on 3-D terrain. That’s not the map’s fault. As maps go, these are good….maybe too many walls……

Anyway. The short review: Mutant Chronicles is fantastically fun to play, easy to learn, beautiful to look at, and going to be hard to master!

For a long, rambling fan-fest, see below:

Let me begin my school-girl gush by attempting to formulate my thoughts into a semi-coherent assemblage of continuity.

Figures

Wow. Mega-wow. They are big. Even the ‘normals’ are big. And the freak-mutants…they’re even Bigger. KANkaKEE these are gy-normous figures. Monstrous. Big. Did I mention they are big?

I love ‘em. I love the fact that I’ll be able to find dollhouse bits to create 3-D scenery to throw them against, not to mention 1:32/1:35 scale stuff will probably look just fine on the table with them, which means Tamiya sandbag and oil drum sets I’ve had for three decades will finally find a use.

The figs are soft plastic, which means they ain’t gonna break on you for the most part. It also means conversions are going to be a piece of cake. I’m already thinking ahead to butchering some of these fellows to re-position hands, heads, gear, etc., to make they distinct from their neighbors of the same unit-type.

The paint jobs are not terrible on any of them and on the bigger pieces, they’re down right good. With some quick touch up in the drybrushing and inking department, they’ll easily be customized on paintjob, which will distinguish between figs and add variety, if so desired. I’m guessing one could easily prime these fellows, too, and start from scratch on the paint job with little trouble, if so inclined.*

Box Set

The starter comes with a ton of stuff for the price, packaged in a see-through box, so you can view the figs (awesome feature) and it’s a sturdy package, reminiscent of FFG’s DOOM box sets.

You get all the punch out stuff – command counters, wound counters, victory counters (points on the map you can fight for control of). You get all unit cards (even though all the figs aren’t yet available) and a bunch of command cards. You get the special dice that make the game a bit unique and refreshing in terms of game play. You get a two-sided hex map, as well. All typical great quality stuff you’re used to with FFG boardgames.

For me, for the price, this is very impressive. The fact that all the unit cards are there alone is a great boon, as it allows you to proxy figures in – from your own collection of whatever, to try out units before you decide to buy them. Love it.

Gameplay

I’ll assume the rules as-read are known to folks here, since you can download the rules for free and read how they are supposed to work.

My good buddy, we’ll call him Gunthyr, picked up a starter set and two supplemental packs – Kuarak the Cursed (sp?) and the Ice Golem. He grabbed up just about one of everything available for the most part, for his own collection, so on my first foray into The Zone, I put together a skirmish group from his figures.

I put together a group of Capitol Rangers. They work well together – giving each other movement bonuses, or enabling units to move after command cards are played, etc.

I did a straight up 3/3/3 set up to get a feel for the game, but one of the coolest elements of this game’s mechanic is the customization of the options available to you: Take more troops, less command tokens; take more command cards, less troops, etc. Very ingenious and slightly maddening, as you fret over the manifold avenues to destruction (your opponent’s, you hope).

But for my first fight, I went Gold-Silver-Bronze down the line with units, cards, tokens.

General Gushing

One thing that is very enjoyable about this game is the innovated mechanics. I like this command card/token set up. There’s not a lot of resource management going on to slow the game down.

I like that, instead of abilities being assigned to a unit (though some do have special abilities, of course) there’s the element of the unknown that the command cards bring to the table, that keeps you guessing about what your opponent has up his sleeve. One round you’re bashing it out with a Ranger with fixed stats and the next turn you give him the ability to make three attacks, instead of one, and he’s hammering your Kuarak the Cursed into oblivion. Sweet. (your actual Ranger vs. Kuarak encounter may vary).

I ended up losing the first skirmish by a tiny bit, but that was because we misinterpreted the rule regarding the Communications Station (we weren’t playing for victory points, but we did use the victory tokens to spice up the game). Had I been able to use the free Gold Command Token granted by the ComStat (had we bothered to read the FAQ, that is), I’d have won most likely. Very close game, either way.

Who cares, though – it was big fun.

Others arrived and set up a bigger game 6/6/6 on a side for four players and winged a multi-player game. The Capital troops managed to drop both Kuarak the Cursed and his Ice Golem (who is wikked ahsum as the kids say), but ultimately fell to the might of Alakai the Cunning and the Technomutants (they never even really got the Immasculator into the mix….our troopers were, indeed, doomed).

Our biggest mistake in this game was not attempting to capture the reserves victory token. Not sure of the name of this token, but I believe if you hold it, you can bring defeated units back into play, which would have given us a chance to whittle the demons down.

I’m guessing there will be cries of lopsidedness early on regarding the might of the Algeroth versus the puny Captial forces…Let me tell you this: I know it can be done. The humans have to work for it, but it can be done.

I have to say, I really enjoyed this game and look forward to playing it again and again. There’s a uniqueness to it that is functional, not frivolous. It’s refreshing to not have a to-hit/to-wound/to-save dynamic in play. The way the dice work to set the range and the way the damage works – along with the way the cards and abilities can affect those outcomes – is pretty novel and fluid.

I like the cards’ influence in the game – it takes away the all-knowing aspect of a set game piece. Sure, you know that a figure may have X life and Y dice, but your opponent has cards that might shift those values in ways you couldn’t have predicted, which can turn the game around in one fell swoop. Very cool.

Disclaimer

*Just as a matter the sake of argument or full disclosure or point of clarification: I’ve been in the gaming hobby as it relates to miniatures and wargaming since 1977 (Metagaming Melee with Heritage Lord of the Rings figures). I love the hobby and its many aspects. I love painting figures. I love constructing terrain. I love converting figures. I love playing the games. I love home ruling games. In 1994, I won first place at GenCon for a diorama I entered with a figure I sculpted. Why do you care? You probably don’t: I only mention it because as a life-long hobbyist I LOVE pre-painted figures in general, and really like these MC figures. I see all sorts of potential in customizing them, but think they’re more than ready for table play.

Sure, there was a time in the past when the hobby end of the gaming hobby wasn’t an issue. That was before a real job, family, life in general got more complex. I love that I can pop open MC and hit the ground running. It’s friggin’ awesome. The fact it works so well and looks so good is icing on the cake.

So, well done. FFG! Keep up the good work! Sorry for the long post.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Almalik — 2008-08-21T18:59:10+00:00

I might have been tempted by this, but was luckily saved by the re-using of sculpts as bronze, silver, gold power levels. It was enough to stop me from getting into hero clicks, and will also apply here. For the costs involved in getting into this I'd need some combination of better figures and more unique sculpts, no matter what the rules are like (I'm superficial like that).

Thread: Re: Good Customer Service from FFG

CovertDad — 2008-08-20T21:05:48+00:00

Yep... This is definitely one case where "par for the course" is exceptional!

Thread: Good Customer Service from FFG

Gamethyme — 2008-08-20T20:19:41+00:00

I purchased the Mutant Chronicles starter at GenCon, and was supposed to receive a promo card with it - unfortunately, I somehow didn't receive the card. So I went to FFG's website, and submitted a customer service request.

Less than 24 hours later, I received an e-mail to let me know it was being taken care of.

Here we are - three days after GenCon - and they're already hard at work making sure customers like me are taken care of.

Thanks, FFG. Your customer service is one of the reasons I buy your products.

Eric

Thread: Re: Mutant Chronicles Review

stormseeker75 — 2008-08-20T15:20:11+00:00

Well okay then. Thats not so bad. Sorry for getting on my "Jump to Conclusions" mat.

Thread: Re: Mutant Chronicles Review

Vydar — 2008-08-20T14:30:53+00:00

stormseeker75 wrote:
Its a big bummer that this doesn't play well out of the starter. That makes a starter almost worthless. How am I supposed to get a feel for the game then without dropping big cash on it?

FFG gives you all of the cards for the set in the starter. Since figures are basically just nice looking place holders, you can proxy in for any of the figures you don't have. Need more rangers? Use the HeroScape Airborne Elite. Need more Necromutants? Use some meeples from Carcassonne. I actually was really impressed with what you got in the starter since you can literally play the "full" game right out of the box just by using a few proxies (something I have a lot of since I bought into HeroScape).

Thread: Re: Mutant Chronicles Review

stormseeker75 — 2008-08-20T13:25:25+00:00

Its a big bummer that this doesn't play well out of the starter. That makes a starter almost worthless. How am I supposed to get a feel for the game then without dropping big cash on it?

It may not be collectible per se, but thats not a good start as far as my money is concerned.

Thread: Mutant Chronicles Review

Vydar — 2008-08-20T05:38:08+00:00

First, some background on me. I love miniatures games, but I hate to paint, so I always have my eyes out for good pre-painted miniatures games. I've had significant game time with Classic BattleTech, MechWarrior (WizKids), WarMachine, and HeroScape. I love games where you can immerse yourself in a universe and where there is enough tactical depth that you can play it every week without getting bored. I've had my eye on Mutant Chronicles (MC) for over a year and was excited to give it a whirl!

Before we dive in, let's get this out of the way: This game is no longer blind purchase! I know that was a big concern for many, but Fantasy Flight Games (FFG) actually opened up all their randomly packed boosters and redistributed them into set booster packs that they will be releasing in waves. The packs look like they will contain between 2-4 figures (depending on figure size) and have an MSRP of $20. Being a HeroScape player, the price seemed a little steep, but it looks to be a slightly better value than the AT-43 and Confrontation prices I've seen.

Starter Box Components:
General:
Suffice it to say that the components are very nice. I doubt anyone will be disappointed with the quality of the cards, tokens, or dice. The weakest component is the double sided map, which might wear out after a significant amount of play. One very cool thing about the starter box is that it contains all of the cards for every figure in the set. This means that when you get the starter, you have all the information you need to proxy any/all of the figures and then decide what you want to buy…or don't buy any boosters at all and play the complete game without the official miniatures.

Rulebook:
The rulebook is an easy read and the game mechanics are not difficult, however, there are two glaring problems. First, the book should have come with an index section that could be referenced to locate specific rules quickly. Second, the pre-constructed skirmish armies do not work! (More on this below.) I've heard complaints about other errors in the rulebook, but I didn't find anything that hindered my understanding. Plus, there is a FAQ on the FFG website with all the necessary corrections. (The FAQ can be found here.)

Miniatures:
The miniatures have been a source of criticism for the game due to their large 54mm size (rather than the more standard 28mm). Many miniatures gamers want to be able to use their figures from one game in another without them looking out of place. This won't be happening with the MC human figures, though some of the big monsters still might work. (It is particularly frustrating for those who have Mutant Chronicles: Siege of the Citadel or other previous MC games that use the 28mm scale.) My main complaint, however, is that larger figures means a pricier product. Increasing the sized of the figures increases the cost out of my wallet while not increasing the in-game value because one figure is still only one playable unit in the game no matter what size it is. I would rather get smaller figures at a reduced price so I can expand my army for less. Even so, the size of the figures does make them look quite impressive and (to my untrained eye) the sculpts and paint jobs look very good. I would put them a step up from HeroScape and on par with AT-43. At a demo I just ran, the conversation went something like this:
"Wow! Those minis look awesome!"--Guy at demo
"Yes, they do, but there have been complaints about them being too large."--Me
"Who cares about that if they make them look that good!"--Guy at demo

Personally, my biggest tiff with the figures is that they reuse the same sculpt for all three ranks (gold/silver/bronze). In a (now) non-collectible format, this makes no sense. I don't mind the reuse of sculpts, but I really think they should enable figures to be used for any rank by having some sort of plastic or rubber marker that can go around the base to change the color from bronze to silver to gold. I seriously hope they consider this for future sets.

For a more detailed review of the components, see this thread, though he doesn't seem to like the minis as much as me.

Before You Play:
Before you start to play, note that the pre-constructed skirmish armies do not work! Not only do some of the recommended cards not make sense, the Capitol army just doesn't have enough firepower. I spent some time tweaking the armies and when I demo the game I use these armies instead:

Algeroth
Necromutant Defiler (gold unit)
Ezoghoul (silver unit)
Technomancer (bronze unit)
Gold order token
Silver order token
Bronze order token
Dark Aura (gold command card) (or Invoke Frenzy if you prefer)
Black Technology (silver command card)
Beastial Speed (bronze command card)

Capitol
Free Marine Hero (Gold)
Martian Banshee Sergeant (Silver)
Ranger Elite (Silver)
Gold Order Token
Silver Order Token
Bronze Order Token
Bait & Switch (Gold)
Fire at Will (Bronze)
Lethal Coordination (Bronze)

Note: I replaced the Bronze Free Marine Soldier with the Gold Free Marine Hero. These are the same sculpts, but the rank is different. If this bothers you, simply use the Free Marine Soldier, replace Lethal Coordination with Radio Target Coordinates, and upgrade the Silver order marker to Gold. If you keep the Free Marine Soldier at his bronze rank, I highly recommend you automatically make Capitol the first player.

If you play the game with the recommended armies in the rulebook (or even the updated ones in the FAQ), you will quickly learn that the Algeroth army is significantly easier to play and will win most matches between two inexperienced players. (My wife, who generally is not very good at miniatures games, kicked my butt 4 out of 5 times when she was playing Algeroth.) The match-up is bad enough to turn people off of the game, which is a shame since the game actually has a lot to offer.

Building an Army:
One of the cool aspects of Mutant Chronicles is your ability to customize and build your own army. Although this has become a standard for miniature games, I've never seen anyone do it quite like MC. Rather than having point values, each army consists of an equal number of Gold, Silver, and Bronze components. The armies I presented above are for a Skirmish where each army gets 3 Gold, 3 Silver, and 3 Bronze selections (3/3/3 for short). Each figure, action card, and order marker has a rank of Gold, Silver, or Bronze and takes up one slot in your army. This means that you must balance your selections wisely. You must carefully consider which figures to bring to the fight, how many order markers it will take to run your army, and how many action cards you will have to surprise your opponent with. (Note: There is no exchange rate between the different ranks. You cannot replace a Gold component with a Silver component.)

For my part, I really like the simplicity of building an army by Gold/Silver/Bronze ranks rather than having to add up points. (My wife felt that this made it easier for her to participate and build her own force.) I also love the depth it gives to army construction as you try to balance the right number of order markers and cards with the figures in your army. In spite of this, I have my reservations about how well the system will function as the game expands. Having only three ranks gives the designers less ability to differentiate between figures. In point based systems, if a figure is slightly better than a 100 point figure, you assign it a value of 110 points. If it is slightly worse, you make it worth 90 points. It seems to me a Herculean task to try to make every figure of equal rank perform equally well. Especially in a tournament atmosphere where only certain figures from a particular rank might be considered viable due to their advantages over the other figures of the same rank.

That said, my reservations at this point are only concerns and are not quantified by any evidence. To the contrary:
1) I have been assured by a FFG representative that the game has been thoroughly play-tested and the ranking system balances out quite well when figures, order tokens, and action cards are all taken into account.
2) No miniature game has ever gotten the point costs exactly right. There are always the "viable" and the "unusable" tournament figures in any miniature game, so having only 3 ranks might produce the same quality game with less to do about nothing.
3) Collectible Card Games do not generally have point values, but rather you construct a deck of a set number of cards and certain limitations on how many of a particular type of card you can play. When viewed from that angle, if Mutant Chronicles gets the figure abilities right, the ranking system used for army construction doesn't seem so far out there!

Game Play:
I found the game play to be quick paced, full of decisions, and quite enjoyable. You can download the entire rule book here, but I want to discuss some of the rules that really make the game tick.

Battlefield & Terrain:
The battlefield is hex based. In my opinion, this is the best way to go as it is faster and more precise than measuring and avoids the unnatural angles that square boards create. The map contains walls that block line of sight (LOS), hindering terrain that stops movement, cover that stops movement and provides protection, and victory zones. Overall, movement and LOS are fairly intuitive. One thing that frustrated me at first is that you can't "sneak up behind" cover or gain a bonus from the cover between you and your enemy. You have to be directly on the hex providing cover to benefit from it. On the other hand, other figures on the battlefield block LOS, so with some creative maneuvering you can use front runners to shield your forces advancing in the rear. Another odd rule is that you can sight and fire directly down a line between two figures standing shoulder to shoulder. This provides for the interesting situation where someone willing to maneuver their figure (possibly into harms way) might be able to get LOS and shoot a figure in the second row.

One final part of the battlefield is victory zones. There are 7 victory zone locations on a map that are each assigned one of ten random victory zone tokens. When a victory zone is controlled by one player, they receive a victory point. In addition, each victory token has a special bonus, such as giving an extra order or healing a wound on a figure. In a 3 on 3 battle out of the starter box, there generally aren't enough figures to play with victory zones or points (though I sometimes throw one in the center of the map for fun). In tournament (10/10/10) games, however, victory is actually determined by victory points, which are based on how many figures you destroy and their ranks as well as controlling victory zones.

Giving Orders:
Under "Building an Army," I mentioned that gold, silver, and bronze order markers actually take up space in your army build. Gold order markers allow a figure 3 actions, silver 2 actions, and bronze 1 action. The actions that can be performed are:
-Move
-Attack
-Guard
-A Special Action defined on your figure's card
Figures can do these actions in any order, but can only perform at most one of each action (eg. you can't attack twice in a turn). On each of your turns, you may activate two figures by assigning an order to each of them in turn and performing the desired actions. At the end of the round, order markers are generally retrieved and reused on the next round.

Moving:
Most games I have played assign varying movement for figures. MC, on the other hand, states that all figures have a base speed of 4. Certain factions are more mobile (particularly Capitol), but this comes from special abilities and action cards rather than an inherent speed enhancement. I will need a few more games under my belt before I can formulate my opinion about this approach.

Attacking:
Attacks are made by rolling special dice. There are four types of dice:
-Very Short Range, Very Heavy Damage
-Short Range, Moderate Damage
-Medium Range, Heavy Damage
-Long Range, Light Damage
Each die has numbers representing accuracy ranges and explosions representing damage. After declaring a target, you roll the dice based on the symbols in the upper corner of your figure's card. If the target is equal to or less distance than the highest accuracy valued rolled, you successfully hit the target. Next, count up all the explosions on each of the dice--that is the amount of damage you did to the target (subtract one if the target is in cover). I'm told this mechanism is just a more streamlined version of Doom or Descent, so most of the people at my demo caught on instantaneously. This is a very slick mechanism that I really enjoy because I feel it forces you to think not only about damage, but about the optimal range you need for various figures.

Action Cards:
As mentioned under "Building an Army," action cards make up a portion of your army build. On each turn, only one action card can be played. Each action card has a command requirement printed on the side. Only figures that meet or exceed the command requirements can use the abilities that the card endows. Abilities range from attack bonuses to canceling the effects of your opponent's action cards. Most cards can only be used once, however, some action cards have a buyback cost that enable you to immediately spend order markers to keep the card in your hand. Cards are generally associated with particular factions, so even though your opponent will not know exactly which cards you have in your hand, they will have some idea of what you might have in store for them.

Tactical Abilities:
There are two tactical abilities that add depth to the game. The first is the guard action. When a figure is placed on guard by using an action from an order, it can now make attacks during your opponent's turn. At any time when an opponent is moving a figure within LOS of your figure, you can request that they stop and use your guard action to fire upon them. Once used, your figure is no longer on guard. At the end of the turn, a player can opt to forgo retrieval of any order markers on figures that are still on guard. The difficulty is that the player must sacrifice his order marker (which usually is a gold or a silver marker) and that figure's activation for that turn. I understand that forcing people to reset or lose their guard ability helps to prevent "camping" that would lead to a boring, defensive game. I also like that players are forced into a tactical decision of whether to stay on guard or not. What I don't like is that you are not allowed to swap in a bronze guard token for a gold token if the figure that you have on guard used a gold token the prior turn. This is a huge penalty and seems to hamper the use of guard so much that it is rarely carried over to the next turn.

The second ability is that figures can combine their attacks on a target. Any figures that have not received an order and are within LOS of the target can become secondary attackers. Each attacker rolls its attack as normal, and for every accurate attack the damage is added together as a single attack. This costs you an order marker and the secondary figure(s) action(s) for the round, but it enables you to bypass cover and/or armor more effectively.

In spite of my complaints about guard, overall, both of these abilities seem to add just enough depth to the game while not complicating it with too many extraordinary circumstances.

Turn Order:
One "oddity" of MC is that the players roll for initiative at the beginning of the game and the first person never changes. Presumably, this turn order was implemented to prevent the "swingy" initiative roll where someone who moves second and then becomes the first player at a critical point in the game can leverage a win based on a single initiative roll. Unfortunately, at the Skirmish (3/3/3) level, the first player has a distinct advantage because he can take full advantage of the guard action on the two figures he moves first every turn. Additionally, if the first player manages to get the first kill, he has the ability to move last and then move again as the first player, which enables him to effectively remove risk from certain actions by moving a figure twice in a row. In the demo armies consisting of 3 figures each, this is a serious flaw in game play. However, as army sizes increase to tournament (10/10/10) or approach epic (90/90/90--supposedly), the advantage will become minimal. Additionally, once you reach the level where you are playing with victory zones, the second player should gain the advantage of getting the last chance to control a victory zone before the end of a round (assuming they have as many figures as their opponent). Hopefully, this will make up for the difference, but I have not played large enough games to be sure. (One thing I'd recommend trying is sticking the command tower in the center victory zone for every skirmish match. This produces the possibility that the second player can steal the first player position.)

Closing Remarks:
Mutant Chronicle is a very fun game. The game is not without its flaws and the starter set armies are bound to give you a bad taste for the game. However, I sincerely believe that once you move up to tournament (10/10/10) level, you'll see a drastic improvement in game play. If you're looking for a pre-painted miniatures game with a depth that is a definite step up from HeroScape, this game is for you. It is lacking some of the complexity and decisions of heavier miniatures games, but still offers many tactical decisions (i.e. guard, cover, combined fire, etc) for your consideration. Victory zones also add much to the game by adding bonuses, providing an alternate objective to simply "kill the other guy," and creating a variable map on every play. In my opinion, Mutant Chronicles is very close to the optimal balance between being simple enough to learn and play easily yet being complex enough to keep your interest for a long time. My wife picked up the mechanics of the game very quickly and I felt that there was enough depth that I'd be willing to play the game week in and week out. I'm very excited about the organized play that FFG is talking about implementing. I've had very good experiences with weekly tournaments in the past and I'm looking forward to seeing what FFG implements in this regard.

Overall, I give the game 4 out of 5 stars. As I play more games with more figures, the game has the possibility of becoming my favorite. If it doesn't rise to the occasion and starts to fall flat after a while, the score could definitely go down as well.

Thread: Re: When in the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks does this game come out?

leprejuan — 2008-08-20T01:19:03+00:00

Frank, you are a bad, bad man.

I've been waiting for this darn thing since fall of '06! Sigh.

Thread: Re: When in the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks does this game come out?

MrSkeletor — 2008-08-20T00:01:21+00:00

I heard they are changing it to another new model, where the whole game is now a con exclusive.

Thread: Re: When in the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks does this game come out?

Guantanamo — 2008-08-19T21:19:28+00:00

Heck, I'm a Warzone player who has been waiting for the release since the property owner pulled it from the last company and gave it to FFG. Granted an entirely different game, but I've still been waiting (what three years or so).

Thread: Re: When in the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks does this game come out?

Chrisgmay — 2008-08-19T15:58:25+00:00

Don't even get me started on this rant... I love ffg, they are absolutely my favorite bg company. However, there release dates suck.

I waited for marvel heroes well over a year past the original release date. I prebought it and it came out 15 months later....15 MONTHS later.

Crazy. End of rant.

Thread: Re: When in the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks does this game come out?

wytefang — 2008-08-19T15:36:58+00:00

Mutant Chronicles was available at GenCon (both Starters and the fixed-purchase boosters, as well as limited qualities of the forthcoming Ilian expansion set (Karak and the Ice Golem were there).

According to this very recent news item at FFG's site, it looks like 27th of August it's on store shelves:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/mutant-chronicles/article-...

As a sidenote, I'm confused about where you heard 5 different release dates announced since the original format-change announcement made on the weekend of the 26th of June? I ask because there appears to have been only one other major announcement (the one I've linked to above) about the release date since that first announcement.

Thread: Re: When in the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks does this game come out?

Bwian — 2008-08-19T15:10:51+00:00

Cardboard Carnage wrote:
Sorry for the rant, I had to vent and see if anyone else was in my same boat.
Absolutely not. I'm a Starship Troopers Evolution player. Or I would be, if the entire game line hadn't been ~~cancelled~~infinitely delayed... Keep in mind that there are worse things than release delays.

But yeah, it's gotten to the point that I just wait for the product to arrive at distributors before I get too excited. FFG is famous for delays, but it happens all over the industry, and I guess I've gotten jaded. Not that I don't look forward to some games more than others, but I've stopped trying to budget around release schedules at least.

Thread: When in the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks does this game come out?

Cardboard Carnage — 2008-08-19T14:46:11+00:00

Ok, first of all, let me start by saying that FFG is one of my favorite companies for board games. I am not sure if it is my number one favorite, but I can guarantee it is in my top three at least. I have probably purchased about 80% of their products over the years and have enjoyed most of them quite a bit.

With that being said, I have also been looking forward to Mutant Chronicles for quite some time as well, for awhile there when it was first announced, I was a little bit iffy on if I would be getting it or not because it was 'collectible', but then I convinced myself that isn't a 'bad' thing (I still have horror stories from MageKnight/MechWarrior/HeroClix), anyhow, all in all I have been really looking forward to getting this game for quite some time.

But what the heck is the deal with the game? When is it REALLY going to be released. For months and months now, every time I think I am going to be getting it, I am told (yet again) it is delayed a few weeks or a month or two. At first this was understandable, and I kind of just rolled with the punches on it, but now it just seems like it is getting ridiculous.

Back on the June release date (I think it was), they announced it was delayed until July and they were no longer making it collectible, ok... that sounds like a fair reason, that's no problem. Then July rolls around and I'm told it is another week or two off... so the middle of July rolls around and I am told it's now pushed back to the first week of August... the first week of August rolls around and I'm told it is pushed back to the weekend after Gencon... so I just went to my FLGS yesterday and they tell me they got an email from FFG to expect Mutant Chronicles in OCTOBER?!?! So that is now ANOTHER Month and a Half??

I'll be honest, I'd be a much happier customer if I was just told a realistic date to begin with, I'd rather wait longer and know the date, than having the game delayed time and time again when it was promised by a certain date. It is like taking a 5 year old kid and rolling back Christmas a few times, and not actually giving it to him until mid June.

As I said, I love FFG and I have been waiting for this game for some time now, I've got some money set aside specifically for this set's released, but I also have had my eye on World of Warcraft's miniature game, and that is something we only heard about fairly recently and they seem to be doing a much better job at getting the product ready and out when they say it will be. I intend to at least get a few boosters and a starter from that game, but if WoW actually is released BEFORE Mutant Chronicles, I'm afraid that I'll end up buying more WoW and putting that cash into that game instead and making MC the game I just get a couple of misc. things from here and there.

Please don't take this message as a negative slam towards FFG, I do understand that delays happen, but come on. How in June could they really think that they could have everything done in a couple of weeks? Why keep giving us dates a couple of weeks off to keep our interest in the game only long enough to announce it is being delayed again.

Had they announced in June something like this "We have decided it was in the best interest of the gaming community to make MC non-random, as a result we have a major repackaging that needs to occur before we can ship to retail, we are sorry, but the game will most likely not hit shelves until October, but well in time for the Holiday Season"... you know what, I would have been really happy to read that announcement and wait until October, but instead I have been told now 5 times since that announcement a date that has not been held true.

The funny thing about it, is when I was at my FLGS and asked, the owner rolled his eyes and let out a snicker, he said "you know how often I am asked about a FFG release date and it never holds true"... thats when he looked in his computer for the email from his rep at FFG saying to expect them in October.

Sorry for the rant, I had to vent and see if anyone else was in my same boat.

D.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

ngoike — 2008-08-18T02:50:05+00:00

20 bucks for 3 figures is a lot of money. The gameplay needs to be excellant.

Here's my concern. Most collectible games are designed to be relatively simple, but the complexity/choices expand based on the number of cards/miniatures you have. The individual cards or miniatures introduce so much of the game, that it almost requires a good amount of the figures to get a good representation.

Miniature battle games, including prepainted minis, normally lay out all the rules up front. With full knowledge, you can plan out your purchase. But it's a very different type of game.

They changed the packaging, but not the game type. I'm curious if the game itself will be great if you only have 5-6 figures per faction. Or will there be too few options or choices to make it worth while?

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Geosphere — 2008-08-17T02:02:42+00:00

I still think the Ezo is a cool design.

Just when I see the final craftsmanship, paintjob and price...

The pics were more promising.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

reapersaurus — 2008-08-16T20:56:13+00:00

Paul, it takes a big man to admit he was wrong.
I applaud your ability to render judgment solely on what you have in hand, instead of what you've said before.

So I take it you'd retract much of what you said in April in this thread?
Specifically:
Geosphere wrote:
reapersaurus wrote:
2) You didnt reply to the (IMO) well-made points/observations so far in this thread. Pointing out that the pics are larger than real scale is just dodging the serious observations made thus far.

I think the sculpts are wonderful. They feel plodding and ropy in their strength. Not fantasy hopping, but trudging under the weight of the war.

If someone doesn't like them and I do, I see no points to counter. Its opinion. The game isn't out. People are deriding a game based on some reviewers enthusiasm.

I think the new Ezoghoul and the NecroMutant are great.
Geosphere wrote:
UniversalHead wrote:
I'm beginning to think it is completely pointless saying anything on BGG, because there is always someone who has the exact opposite viewpoint, even if it seems hard to believe!

I'm pretty amazed that anyone could think these two static, lifeless, blobby, cartoony sculpts are great, and especially amazed that comes from Paul, whose opinion I respect - sorry Paul! They just look straight out of the early days of fantasy miniatures to me (I was there). The other sculpts I've seen are fine, but these two are just silly.

The reviewer goes on about the detail in the flesh painted individually, when it's just a rough drybrush. But I don't expect much from pre-painted jobs. I do expect a halfway decent, 'realistic' looking sculpt though, and these just look laughable to me - especially the Ezoghoul - like they were made in plasticine by a 4th grader.

But, they'll always be someone who thinks otherwise!

Understood.

But to me,
Old Ezoghoul: Fantasy CGI creature, prancing unrealistically. Cool, but kind of silly and over the top.
New Ezoghoul: Believable lumbering hulk using its massive weight to heave a weapon. It FEELS like a warrior and is easily relatable to real world beasts.

And by all means, a NecroMutant SHOULD be blobby and lifeless, not looking refined and vibrant. He should feel like something formless taking up space. A grunt in every sense. He should be awkward.

Having seen a bunch of the sculpts online, I have to say the characters have "feel", "realness" and "heft". There are humans in mid-jump with waving hair, and lumbering things that must creak as they move. There are hover bikes with riders crouched in speed. The sculpts convey motion or lack thereof.

I'll say nothing of detail until I hold one in my hand. Online pics show nothing, being mis-scaled, possibly prototype and who knows how poorly photoed.

But I am absolutely intrigued by the army construction, which seems as innovatotive as BattleLore claimed it was going to be.Excellent review of the presentation of the game, Paul, as usual.
Rules and gameplay are important to a miniatures game, but when the competetion and pricepoint for miniature quality is the way it is currently, inferior mini quality is death for a miniatures game.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

petermc — 2008-08-16T19:23:28+00:00

Somewhat as I had feared...tons of folks cheered when the non-CMG announcement was made, and now we are hearing it is too expensive per figure. That's a big part of why companies go CMG in the first place.

Too bad about the sculpts and paint jobs though...regardless of gameplay issues I was convinced the figures would, at least, be outstanding. Without that I won't buy. Maybe it's only the starters that are that bad, and the expansion packs are better? Let's hope so.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Brother Gunn — 2008-08-16T02:07:22+00:00

I'll beg to differ slightly on the Starter Set. I'm an interested fan of Mutant Chronicles, and have actually played a couple of decent 7/7/7 (gold/silver/bronze)games. Brotherhood vs. Dark Legion, and Bauhaus vs. Capital.

Map - B (good for what it is, and Heroscape tiles work fine)

Dice - B (much more interesting than "Doom" dice and a really neat mechanic, being etched is a definite plus, although Heavy Melee should have been red, not yellow... 8^)

Rule Book - C - (nice presentation, but far too many mistakes)

Cards - A (good mix of tactics and options, and having a nice sampling of the starting factions was very appreciated to get a feel for different style armies)

Components - A - (some of them didn't punch out as cleanly as I'd like)

Minis - C (while the sculpts are much more interesting than the old MC figures, I would have liked to have seen some more intriguing (albiet subjective) detailing. The painting was servicable for game pieces, but the lack of consistency of quality hurts the overall product. The double-hex figures are tricky to manuever though. Plan ahead on your movements and attacks)

Gameplay - B+ (the army building aspect is very unique with great variable opportunities, the battlefield is lethal [particuarly burst fire] and you can get in the mix quite quickly. I'm looking forward to a lot more games.)

I'm sure Fantasy Flight is working very hard on this, and the fact that it is no longer blind purchase is very appreciated. Cost is a bit steep, but such as it is.

Hope all are enjoying Gen Con. Lock and Load, Brother Gunn

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Geosphere — 2008-08-15T23:28:16+00:00

Cardboard Carnage wrote:
When is this officially out?

You can check various discussion at the FFG boards. The date changes constantly. The problems at launch are absurd.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Geosphere — 2008-08-15T23:23:57+00:00

UniversalHead wrote:
Anyway, unfortunately, by the time this reaches Australia it will be ridiculously unaffordable.

Its not exactly cheap here.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Cardboard Carnage — 2008-08-15T23:21:07+00:00

When is this officially out? I went to my 'not-so-local' gaming store yesterday and asked, they told me they were now being told it was again pushed back to OCTOBER by Fantasy Flight. Is this accurate?

By the way, thanks for the review, it seems to be pretty much what I was expecting, which isn't bad, but isn't super great either.

D.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

UniversalHead — 2008-08-15T23:19:51+00:00

Anyway, unfortunately, by the time this reaches Australia it will be ridiculously unaffordable.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Geosphere — 2008-08-15T23:14:18+00:00

They aren't terrible. Its not like chunks of flash. But on my Ezoghoul, its pretty 1970s action figure quality. The other guys hide it pretty well. Since the EG is organic, it does stand out.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

UniversalHead — 2008-08-15T22:05:56+00:00

Argh! I can forgive anything but obvious mould lines. Repainting I can do, but I at least expect the figures to be clean first.

Thread: Re: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Geosphere — 2008-08-15T14:45:27+00:00

The box is real nice. B+.

Thread: Component Review: Quickly looking through a starter set

Geosphere — 2008-08-15T14:39:34+00:00

OK, I have a starter set now. I haven't played yet, and I'm not sure if I'll have time this weekend.

Here's the quick look.

Map: Slightly heavier than poster stock. Nice, if somewhat monotone, art. Difficult to see the hex markings for various terrain. It won't do well in play without markers on the board. The colored lines to denote terrain types are just too thin and among muddled artwork.
Grade: C+

Dice: The dice are actual impressed dice, not just inked. This is a good thing. They are fairly rounded at the edges. These have blank faces that have paint smears on them, kind of not clean. The numbers and icons aren't 'crisp', but they'll do. They are of average quality at best.
Grade: B-

Rule book: Nice and easy to read, good stock.
Grade: B+

Cards: Pretty linen finish. Rounded corners, high quality print, easy to read.
Grade: A

Components: (Tiles, counters) Very thick, linen finish, clear graphics.
Grade: A-

Minis: They're nice and chunky. The poses are kind of OK. The detail is OK. None of it is "very good" or better. The paint ranges from moments of "very good" to "what the hell is this crap", even on a single figure. Spots like the teeth and horns of the EzoGhoul are impressive. The "shading" done by painting a line on the inner crook of an elbow, for example, are embarassing. The shade colors are absurd (human flesh shaded with burnt umber, no transition), painted with no skill, a brush that's too big, and simply thick paint, no effort to wash or shade. The inner arm of the technomancer is grey, with basically a huge, poorly painted dark green plus sign painted bisecting the arm (the crook of the elbow, and the indent between bi/tricep and the forearm muscles), thick and clumsy. It ruins the look of the figure, since the arm is extended and pretty much a focal point.

Now, once these guys are on the table, they look OK. But they don't stand up to scrutiny in the slightest. They show casting lines, and some of the color schemes are just muddy and painted in such a way that if my 9 year old son had done it, I would make him redo it. As game pieces, they're OK. As display pieces... They need work. The colors are fairly mute, which is OK for warriors on the field, but looks like random drippings at some points. The EzoGhoul is almost gaudy. I really wish they kept the original purple for the upcoming Brotherhood release, at least it would show that humans haven't somehow lost the technology for colorful textiles. If a Star Wars or D&D mini were blown up, that's the quality, complete with the little specks that are mispainted a bit, but now blown up. It's similar to the larger HeroScape minis, which have that glaze wash at least to fake shading. Nothing remotely near the quality of AT-43 or Confrontation. AT-43 looks Golden Demon quality in comparison. If you're making a mini this big, for one, I would expect the sculpts to show detail that you can't in smaller minis. This would require a harder plastic to hold the detail. For two, I would expect a paint job that was scaled to the larger figure beyond the drybrushed teeth. These are kid toy quality. Not even good kid toy quality.
Grade: C+

I have been looking forward to this game for years. To hold the Algeroth team in your hand and call it $20 if it were a warband is a travesty. That makes a regular dude about $5 ($10 for a large), and the quality is not there. When they were $4/$8 due to the more figs in a random booster, it may have been reasonable. Or if they didn't appear to be painted by a third grader with his dad helping him on a few tight spots it might be reasonable. The 20% price increase and problems with putting specific teams together with a crippled trading and secondary market is painful.

If it plays like the greatest thing since the D20, then it might still be reasonable. I'll get a review up as soon as I get 5 games under my belt. Great play may make this game, because the minis certainly do not. Of course, the errors in the rulebook don't make me hugely confident, but we'll see.