Game: Serenissima

Thread: Re: No more flags of a certain faction...

Asur — 2008-09-26T18:09:29+00:00

Lol.
Actually the player who, in my last game, would need more flags, was ranked on third in the end.

Thread: Re: No more flags of a certain faction...

Mr.Baggins — 2008-09-26T14:41:50+00:00

I agree there is no limit.

On the other hand, if one player has used up all of his flags, I'd recommend the others concede. That game is already spoken for...

Thread: Re: No more flags of a certain faction...

Seth_Logan — 2008-09-26T05:41:12+00:00

There is no limit to the number of flags you can use. Try coins, or something else to determine ownership.

Thread: Re: How much time does this game take?

Asur — 2008-09-26T00:20:28+00:00

For the record: I tried out this game for the first time, with other 3 newbies. The game+explanation took us two hours and a half.

Thread: No more flags of a certain faction...

Asur — 2008-09-26T00:18:42+00:00

Now what? You can't build any more boats or conquer new ports? Thank you

Thread: Re: Non-military Economic Variant

Rock Photo Star — 2008-09-11T00:59:12+00:00

Has anybody come up with and economic only variant or should people just play but not allow any combat?

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DaMarsh — 2008-08-28T02:03:50+00:00

Golly - look at the galleys!

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DaMarsh — 2008-08-28T02:02:33+00:00

Mid-game of a four player game

Thread: Re: Serenissima - Sea Tactics and Trading Strategy

Choubi — 2008-08-20T19:33:12+00:00

Great post!
I've been a long time player of "méditerranée" (the french name) and this has been my first real gamer-game.
When I discovered Trictrac (french bgg) and bgg, i was amazed that i couldn't find a decent strategy guide on this game, but that was before i found your post.
I wanted to write one but i see now that you have written all i could've said.
The only thing missing, perhaps, is the pros and cons of every starting capital.

I particularly loved the first turn collusion between genoa and valencia, being one of my favorite moves.

Thread: Re: Question re: Retaining Ownership of a Port

talrich — 2008-08-13T19:40:06+00:00

punkzter wrote:
The rules are very clear about this happening after an attack, but what happens if you decide to move all sailors off of the location. Does it still remain in control of the previous owner until someone else takes it over?

I think there are two answers consistent with the rules.
1. You can't abandon a port. The last sailor can't leave.
2. Your sailors can abandon a port, and you retain your flag.

I dismiss the idea that you can abandon a port and it would revert to neutral due to p11, "Control of a port only changes when sailors disembark to form a new garrison."

I infer from the rules that you can leave no sailors in a port. Why? It's weak logic, but the rules (p7 - Transfer of Sailors) specify consequences for leaving a boat with no sailors, but don't specify consequences of leaving a port without sailors.

I must add that I've played a fair bit, and I can't recall a time I have seen this done. I want a garrison on my ports!

-Greg

Thread: Re: Starting Capital Question

pethulhu — 2008-08-13T10:57:14+00:00

Simple Answer: yes
(Anything else would not make sense.)

Thread: Re: Question re: Retaining Ownership of a Port

punkzter — 2008-08-12T03:54:06+00:00

The rules are very clear about this happening after an attack, but what happens if you decide to move all sailors off of the location. Does it still remain in control of the previous owner until someone else takes it over?

Thread: Starting Capital Question

punkzter — 2008-08-11T23:08:44+00:00

Hi, I have a question about the setup phase of the game. If, at the beginning of the game, a player does not place one of his sailors into his starting capital, would he or she still place a flag on that location, and thus gain control of that location?

Thanks,
Brad

Thread: Re: Adding Players

OtisBFilthy — 2008-08-09T19:20:57+00:00

Where is the variant board? Is there actually rules for this 5th player variant or are you just throwing another player in willy nilly? I haven't actually played this game yet, it's in the mail. Just checking out rules tweaks and variants till it arrives

Oh and how does adding a 5th player affect playing time? With and without the lowered to no income selling at owned ports variant?

Thread: Re: Prevention of Unrealistic Blockade Action

OtisBFilthy — 2008-08-09T19:16:08+00:00

Has anyone else tried this variant?

Do you still play with this Harro and does it still work out great for you all?

I don't have this game yet, just won it in a math trade. Looks like fun but the 3-4 hour games don't come out too often to getting to try out different variants and see what works best is kinda tough. I generally like to play the stock rules once and then throw in variants that the majority of people say improve gameplay.

Thread: Re: Alternative rule for selling really improves game

OtisBFilthy — 2008-08-09T19:09:49+00:00

does this rule affect the time it takes to play the game?

Thread: Re: Is serenissima still in print?

Iceberg1 — 2008-07-29T21:39:42+00:00

Will this game ever be reprinted? It looks like a great trading/economic game!

--James

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henk.rolleman — 2008-07-28T19:49:00+00:00

Overview

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Emperor JD — 2008-07-11T19:35:50+00:00

The ships actually float!

Thread: Re: Serenissima - modifying the scoring rules to lessen the importance of the last-turn free-for-all

DavidM — 2008-07-09T11:19:50+00:00

I agree. We always play 1 point per galley at the end. It is just enough to stop people making wild attacks on the last move since the unecessary loss of 2 or 3 galleys could often be enough to lose a game. The game usually depends on ~2 points and one cannot be sure how much money other players have, so you would not take the chance in attacking a port on the last turn without a reasonable chance of success.

Thread: Re: Serenissima - modifying the scoring rules to lessen the importance of the last-turn free-for-all

jbameer — 2008-06-21T06:59:48+00:00

I have played this game numerous times and we have all felt like something should be done to change the scoring. We decided to add a victory point for each ship a player controls at game's end. This took a liitle edge off the total warfare that can result and was a simple solution. What do you all think?

Thread: Re: About the wharehouses

ipgyst — 2008-06-07T05:17:57+00:00

It's been a while since I've read the rules, but a "good" in a warehouse signifies an established trade route for that "good", and not just one "good" sitting in the warehouse. That helps explain why "goods" are never used up - trade routes mean whole bunches of that "good" are being exchanged in that port/warehouse.

Thread: Re: About the wharehouses

Asur — 2008-06-06T12:36:16+00:00

Ok. Thank you.

Thread: Re: About the wharehouses

Emile — 2008-06-06T12:00:08+00:00

Once a good is in the warehouse, it stays in the warehouse for the whole game. Once you have gold and wood or iron and wood (either two cubes or one cube and the intrinsic local commodity), then that port can produce forts or galleys for the rest of the game and never loses any cubes.

Filling up another player's warehouse with other goods before they can get wood, iron, or gold there themselves is a very valid and useful strategy.

Thread: About the wharehouses

Asur — 2008-06-06T11:48:22+00:00

I'm a bit confused about the wharehouses

If you have in say, Valencia's wharehouse, a piece of iron, you basically can build a ship each turn, only having to pay the price? You don't spend the iron?

And if you sell spices, clothes or whatever good that isn't used to buy stuff, that port's wharehouse will be full forever?

Thank you

Thread: Re: How much time does this game take?

Zimeon — 2008-06-04T15:17:56+00:00

How the heck to you play this game with 5 players?

Thread: Re: How much time does this game take?

davedanger — 2008-06-03T20:36:11+00:00

We played 5 players, most new, IIRC, in under 2 hours on a weekday meetup group. With the DO NOT PAY YOURSELF rule. 5 is as fun as 4.

Thread: Re: How much time does this game take?

ipgyst — 2008-06-03T14:58:51+00:00

You should pretty much play Serenissima only with 4 players. The numbers so far are about right at 4 hours for n00bs and 3 hours for veterans.

Thread: Re: How much time does this game take?

Seth_Logan — 2008-06-03T14:27:32+00:00

It's about four'ish. Probably 5 with newbies

Thread: Re: How much time does this game take?

pitris — 2008-06-03T13:42:05+00:00

I've only played it once and it took us around 3 hours, including rules explanation.

Thread: Re: From shrink-wrap to victory! 2 players explore Serenissima

TermiGator — 2008-06-03T12:24:18+00:00

Nice Report - cool with the pictures.

But if I crushed my girlfriend that badly in a new game, I could probably directly sell it afterwards, because she'd never play it with me again!

Thread: Re: How much time does this game take?

Zimeon — 2008-06-03T11:01:49+00:00

The play time is largely underestimated. I'd say have at least a 4 hours window if it's the first time you play. Even now when we'ere used to the game, it takes at least 3 hours.

And warn players to try to avoid analysis paralysis, as it can be a factor: "Oh, I'd really like to go there, but what if that player goes THERE, then he'll beat me to the trading, and I can't… maybe I should go there instead… but then THAT player could go THERE and that'll lose me." etcetera.

If the game's new, add an hour for assembly if you're alone. Takes ages to put those flags to the masts.

Great game, though.

Thread: How much time does this game take?

Asur — 2008-06-03T10:41:31+00:00

I've seen some complains about the time this game takes. The official time is 120 minutes, so that means it takes what? 3 hours?

Thank you

Thread: Re: Limits for Sailors and Gallery blockade

fstrzala — 2008-05-31T23:43:23+00:00

thanks a lot

Thread: Re: Limits for Sailors and Gallery blockade

ipgyst — 2008-05-31T18:33:57+00:00

Based on the questions as I understand them, those are the correct answers!

Thread: Re: Limits for Sailors and Gallery blockade

cornelanner — 2008-05-31T12:46:23+00:00

1) As you said, on your turn you can only buy/hire as many new sailors as there are goods in the warehouse. However, there is no limit to the overall number of sailors stationed in a port.

2)On your turn you can move your galleys according to the rules. It doesn't matter if you blocked another player, i.e. didn't let another player pass who moved his/her galleys before you. I hope this answers your second question.

Thread: Limits for Sailors and Gallery blockade

fstrzala — 2008-05-31T11:31:00+00:00

Hi, I've got 2 questions:
1) is there any limits to have a sailors in port? There's a limit to bay news.
2)Can I move my gallery whena I have just the another blocked?

Thanks a lot for answers
Franz

Thread: Re: Serenissima - modifying the scoring rules to lessen the importance of the last-turn free-for-all

Sphere — 2008-05-30T17:14:55+00:00

That's the problem that led me to stop playing the game. I'm not sure what the best remedy is, but it certainly needs something.

Thread: Re: Serenissima - modifying the scoring rules to lessen the importance of the last-turn free-for-all

ipgyst — 2008-05-30T15:39:00+00:00

Zimeon wrote:
You're right about the last turn being an interesting turning point. It's just my sense of order that is a bit disturbed that "all of a sudden, everyone marches to war".
I'd never thought of it like this, and this is a good point. But then again I think I have always felt this way, but never put it into words. You're playing the first 7 turns of the game one way, then BOOM on turn 8 the scoring kicks in, scant few boats are delivering goods, and everybody gets bellicose trying to take your ports away that you've controlled for the first 7 turns.

Thread: Re: Serenissima - modifying the scoring rules to lessen the importance of the last-turn free-for-all

Zimeon — 2008-05-29T20:04:24+00:00

You're right about the last turn being an interesting turning point. It's just my sense of order that is a bit disturbed that "all of a sudden, everyone marches to war".

Thread: Re: Serenissima - modifying the scoring rules to lessen the importance of the last-turn free-for-all

DavidM — 2008-05-29T16:13:54+00:00

Scoring after each turn is an interesting idea, and it turns up in many games but it would change the character of this game. With money hidden and the possibility of port capture on the last turn, it is rarely certain who is winning at any time. I like this uncertainty, and the idea that everyone is in with a chance at the end.

I agree that going last on the final turn is often important, it can produce a 10point turn around as the last player hits a full-medium port. Sometimes, it can be game-losing. I have seen the first players on the last turn blockade the Med at Tunis and Sicily (or elsewhere), stopping the last player from doing anything useful. So there is a genuine choice in move position on the last turn.

Since the choice of move position depends on having enough money to outbid the other players, you could argue that the current rules allow someone to convert a winning position into a win.

Do try the modifications you suggest. I would be interested to hear the result, However the only rule modifications I really advocate are scoring 1pt for each galley (to prevent sink-everything suicide attacks on the last turn) and 1pt for each fort (because they are just a bit underpowered) at the end of the game.

Thread: Re: Serenissima - modifying the scoring rules to lessen the importance of the last-turn free-for-all

Zimeon — 2008-05-24T06:24:59+00:00

It goes off very well with me. Sometimes it seems all the trade during the game is there only to gear up for the final round, where like 1500 ducats go for the turn order.

However, as the game is long, having VPs during the game might cause a "eh… I'm losing and there's no crap I can do about it". Then again, that is true for the game as it is now anyway, so it wuold probably only improve.

i'd like to see some sort of mitigation not giving the last guy in the turn such a HUGE advantage when it comes to moving ships. Like, having to ask permission to LEAVE a space (apart from "pass through").

So do brainstorm.

Thread: Serenissima - modifying the scoring rules to lessen the importance of the last-turn free-for-all

ipgyst — 2008-05-24T04:59:28+00:00

Firstly, Serenissima is an awesome game. It is one of the first euros I owned, and it's also one of the best-looking games I own. For an early euro, it contains a lot player-conflict, screwage, and antagonism (Imagine going last on the first turn and building a pirate ship - yeah!). The gems in Cyrena always make my games interesting.

Unfortunately, Serenissima is also a comparatively long game. Good play is generally rewarded with a strong finish, which is what the winning conditions boil down to. All scoring is based on who controls which ports after the last turn has ended, and that's it. Turn order on the last turn is HUGE. If you go first on the last turn, you have almost no chance of winning unless you have valuable ports full of defenders and more ships than everybody else combined, because if you're winning, they're coming after YOU, and if you're not winning, good luck catching up if you have to go first!

The author's goal was to place importance on the last turn, so I don't want to completely change that, but I do think it should be mitigated. I imagine some sort of system where victory points are awarded for controlled ports (full ones definitely, not-full ones maybe?) after each turn, and then in some victory-point-multiple after the last turn. So let's say I control Creta all game, fill the port with goods, but somebody jacks it away from me on the last turn - I get zero points for my efforts, and I don't think that is fair. Let's say I was given one point for each turn I controlled it during the game, and the player who controls it at the end of the game gets 5 points. That's just an example off the top of my head, and obviously more thought and playtesting needs to go into it, but I wanted to post my ideas here first and see if I was way off base or if other people felt the same way and would have some interest in developing some alternate scoring methods. Fire away.

Thread: Re: How many of each commodity?

DavidM — 2008-05-20T16:14:07+00:00

Those commodities are available to buy

Thread: How many of each commodity?

kristopherjwolff — 2008-05-20T15:26:03+00:00

In the box, there are a certain amount of each commodity in each "bucket" in the insert, plus there's a little slot for each commodity near each "bucket" to "label" it. Is that one also available for play in the game? Or does that one stay in the box as a "label" forever?

Thread: Re: English Rules

Seth_Logan — 2008-05-10T13:06:07+00:00

Rokkr wrote:
ekted wrote:
http://www.globetrotter-games.com/index.htm?E&game/rules/eSe...
Yeah, I found that. It's not illustrated though and I'd still like to get a copy of the player aid card in English.

This game actually lends itself very easy for playing it with just the player aids alone. I believe all rules are on there (I lost my copy of the rules a long time ago...

Thread: Re: English Rules

Liumas — 2008-05-10T06:04:27+00:00

Here is the player aid card
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Thread: Re: English Rules

Rokkr — 2008-05-09T19:30:40+00:00

ekted wrote:
http://www.globetrotter-games.com/index.htm?E&game/rules/eSe...
Yeah, I found that. It's not illustrated though and I'd still like to get a copy of the player aid card in English.

Thread: Re: English Rules

ekted — 2008-05-09T19:10:55+00:00

http://www.globetrotter-games.com/index.htm?E&game/rules/eSe...

Thread: English Rules

Rokkr — 2008-05-09T18:46:57+00:00

I have a German copy of this. I looked in the files section and there is no copy of the English rules. Could anyone help me out please?
I also need the player aid card if possible please.

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dpc47 — 2008-04-16T22:22:53+00:00

Cover art

Thread: Non-military Economic Variant

EndersGame — 2008-03-24T16:57:11+00:00

One of the attractions of Serenissima is the interesting tension between economics and military conflict. But how about a variant that eliminated the military aspects of the game? i.e. no blockades, no attacking ports or ships, no warfare whatsoever. Sailors are still important because they'd affect the speed of ships.

I realize this would make the game less interesting for some. But it might be a good way to learn the basics of the game for newcomers, to help master the economic management of the game. And perhaps it might even work as a non-military economic variant in its own right (especially for those who don't like it as a war game, or the bloodbath of the endgame).

Would this work? It would make for a slightly simpler and different game, but would it still be a decent game?

]]> . ]]>

Thread: Re: Are sailors limited to supply?

talrich — 2008-01-15T13:25:03+00:00

Our interpretation of the rules brought us to the same conclusion (using five-sailor markers), but I'm not aware of anything official.

-Greg

Thread: Re: Another BROG Review

talrich — 2008-01-14T19:31:27+00:00

BROG wrote:
RENAISSANCE DEMOLITION DERBY

That's appropriate imagery for the last turn.

BROG wrote:
It would seem that, with the bidding for turn system, players would bid as little as possible. However, the level of bidding raises the price/worth of goods

The bid for turn has no effect on the purchase price of goods in a port, nor the sale of goods.

-Greg

Thread: Re: Are sailors limited to supply?

Zimeon — 2008-01-14T12:33:35+00:00

I have frequently run across the same problem. All players argued that there was no real sense in limiting the sailors to supply. It didn't add to the game, and it didn't make sense either. Limiting the ships has never been necessary, but there is a sense there.

So I'd say just use anything as a 5-sailor marker until further notice. Even if the official ruling would be that the supply is the limit, I doubt I would ever play that way. It would just be annoying.

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Soledade — 2007-10-01T22:28:20+00:00

4 player game

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Soledade — 2007-10-01T21:26:11+00:00

early game

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cvandyk — 2007-06-05T15:39:36+00:00

Board detail

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cvandyk — 2007-06-05T15:35:46+00:00

Example of a capital city

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cvandyk — 2007-06-05T15:29:53+00:00

As reviewers have noted the colours of the ports look very similar - try distinguish red, brown, and gray late at night!