Game: 1832

Thread: Re: 1832 Quick Review

NeonElephant — 2008-04-07T20:20:09+00:00

There are two kinds of mergers: systems formation and takeovers.

A system is formed by joining two majors into a twenty-share company. All assets of the two are joined (duplicate tokens are discarded), and all but the president's share become 5% shares (the president's share is still 20%). The new par and share value becomes the average of the share values of the old companies. A system still retains its two "shell" companies, and thus has twice the train limit of a ten-share company. Furthermore, as the director you can play "shell games" in order to put yourself into emergency money raising and buy trains out of pocket without having to run backwards (!).

A takeover is just one company buying out all the shares of another, at current prices (IPO shares are purchased at par), using its treasury. The president of the purchasing company can contribute out of pocket if needed. All of the existing assets of the bought-out company become the property of the purchaser (unplaced tokens, however, are discarded). This also causes a drop in the share limit (as a company closure would).

Thread: Re: Orccon 2008 (Los Angeles CA) session report - 17 Feb 2008

jonflagg — 2008-03-12T06:29:53+00:00

I am not sure if I ever witheld dividends with COG that game. I doubt it mainly because the share value did reach 350. The only time I would withold with a lead company would be if I needed to spend the funds on a permanent train.

Witholding dividends with the only company I was running at that time puts a major crimp into the money I have available in stock round. The major maneuver I did was move the capital from the ACL into the COG after I believe I got to about 80% control of COG and then dumping the ACL stock virtually daring anyone to take it over. No one did and I was eventually able to merge it with N&W which I was not even sure I was going to get to make an effective plowhorse company.

Having the other players force the COG to float early did not negatively impact me. The company was able to achieve a strong final share value and ran two permanent trains in the late game. I felt no need to merge it since I owned too many shares and it would have reduced the share value. It appears to be stronger to go yellow with a merged company since you can hold more certificates and it can hold more capital if one of its components starts with good money and the other component is a company with very low share value.

Thread: Re: Orccon 2008 (Los Angeles CA) session report - 17 Feb 2008

Yuglooc — 2008-02-22T19:07:08+00:00

Thanks for the update.

At the end, Todd's income per round was $1066. This was by far the highest among us (Jonathan $788, Bill $665, Andrew $557, Chuck $461). However, Todd could not overcome the $2000 advantage in share price that I (as well as Jonathan and Chuck) had. In addition, I had built a significant cash advantage during the previous set of operating rounds (due to frequent withholding of dividends by three of the players - both to get 12-trains and to keep share prices in the yellow area so they wouldn't count against certificate limit). This was despite my having to spend over $500 out of hand for an 8-train.

The certificate limit (13 in a 5-player game) was certainly a major reason that two of the three networks did not see share value appreciation. In a four player game (certificate limit 16), one can easily build up two companies, form a network (ideally holding 55% of it), then start a third company. The 3rd company would be played as in 1870; keep withholding dividends until it gets into the yellow zone. Its funds would be used to acquire more trains for the network. Ideally, the network would have 3 (or 4, if it can be pulled off) trains while the other company would limp along with a 6-train at the end. Chuck had the right idea using the GM&O as a means of funding his network; he wasn't able to execute things as well as he would have liked though.

Thread: Re: Orccon 2008 (Los Angeles CA) session report - 17 Feb 2008

NeonElephant — 2008-02-22T02:45:43+00:00

For what it's worth, Todd had the cheap private and the Cotton company; Johnathan had the London investors and the CoG private, and Chuck got the shipping company (leaving you, of course, with the coal company).

Maybe if I play one of these titles more than once I'll figure out how not to make a hash of the 1830-style private auction

Also of note was Todd managing to buy the first two sixes, giving him 5,6,6 in that network (he later upgraded to 6,6,12).

Thread: Re: 1832 Quick Review

BFoy — 2008-02-20T21:56:25+00:00

Could you describe the merger rules in more detail since thats this game's claim to fame?

Thread: Orccon 2008 (Los Angeles CA) session report - 17 Feb 2008

Yuglooc — 2008-02-20T21:12:25+00:00

Five player game without the Southern Bank. Participants were (starting with the one who went first) Todd, Jonathan, Chuck, Bill (me), and Andrew.

I don't recall exactly how the private companies split; I do know that Todd and Jonathan got two each, with Chuck and I getting the others (I had the mining company). Three companies started in the first round - the FEC ($68 - Chuck), L&N ($68 - Andrew) and CoG ($100 - Jonathan). With only $335 left after purchasing the mining company ($420 starting capital minus $85), I could not hope to start a public company. After Jonathan had committed his funds, I attempted to take over the CoG - this forced Jonathan to turn in his private company (#3) for a share of the CoG, thus ensuring control.

Not long afterwards, Todd started the Southern. I was still unable to start my own company, as I could not raise funds by selling stock (thanks largely to the CoG Director withholding revenue). In fact, I didn't start my first company until Chuck started his second (the Georgia Railroad - GRR). I elected to start the A&WP at $82 (holding on to my FEC shares). This gave the company just enough to connect to the mine, buy the private company, and acquire two trains (the last 3 and the first 4). I believe the ACL was also started that stock round (by Jonathan).

At the end of the first subsequent stock round, Chuck elected to form the first of three networks that would be created. The FEC and GRR thus became Network A.

The big surprise came in a later stock round. Chuck, holding the Priority Deal marker, sold shares of Network A down to 60% to start the GM&O (which the A&WP had built to, with a station in Mobile). I had hoped to start the GM&O with the intention of forming my own network. I was now faced with the choice of starting one of the two remaining two companies (N&W and SAL), both in the northeast. As neither one looked interesting to me, I opted instead to start investing in Network A. The other two companies were quickly started (Todd took the SAL, while Jonathan started the N&W). It was during the next set of operating rounds that the first 6 train was purchased. Todd and Jonathan immediately formed networks (Todd's SOU/SAL became Network B, while Jonathan's ACL/N&W became Network C). Both of these networks' share prices stayed in the yellow area for much of the rest of the game, as their Directors tried to get more trains into them (and hold more certificates of their own).

I was ultimately forced to buy an 8-train after the A&WP's 3 and 4 trains rusted. My out of pocket cost was a little over $500. Andrew bought the last 8-train for his L&N, paying around $700 out of pocket.

Todd thought that his cash position would ensure the win (his Network B had three trains including a 12, and was pulling in $1120 in revenue per round). Alas, the final results surprised everyone (especially me):

5th place: Andrew ($2569 stock value + $3146 cash = $5715)
4th place: Todd ($2247 stock value + $4090 cash = $6337)
3rd place: Chuck ($4372 stock value + $2583 cash = $6955)
2nd place: Jonathan ($4316 stock value + $3138 cash = $7454)
1st place: Bill ($4376 stock price + $3385 cash = $7761)

I certainly wasn't expecting to win, given how things were going for me.

Final stock prices and Directors:
--- Network A (FEC/GRR - Chuck): $400
--- CoG (Jonathan): $350
--- A&WP (Bill): $275
--- L&N (Andrew): $180
--- GM&O (Chuck): $90
--- Network B (SOU/SAL - Todd): $72
--- Network C (ACL/N&W - Jonathan): $72

Shares of top three valued companies held: Bill 12, Chuck 11, Jonathan 8, Todd 3, Andrew 2, CoG 1, Network A 3

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Knut Krummnacker — 2007-10-15T22:25:53+00:00

4 player game in progress

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kirkusmaximus — 2006-10-15T07:16:23+00:00

Public Company Charters and Certificate Packs

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kirkusmaximus — 2006-10-15T07:06:20+00:00

1832 Box - 2 Part

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kirkusmaximus — 2006-10-15T07:00:44+00:00

Foamcore Mapboard

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FredhoT — 2006-08-21T21:56:43+00:00

1832 (Deep Thought Games) - gamebox

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FredhoT — 2006-08-21T21:54:36+00:00

1832 (Deep Thought Games) - map

Thread: Re: 1832 Quick Review

tdewey — 2006-08-17T17:27:59+00:00

Turns out the KC 80-grey was a map typo (fixed on all future maps and Deep Thought Games sent out a sticky to fix current maps). This change probably requires me to modify some of my comments. I still feel that the 20-yellow, while historically correct, does limit early options with respect to Atlanta. However, with the KC 80 gone, the brown 60 Atlanta and WVCF are now the best endgame spots meaning that you will want to run through Atlanta if you can.

That being said:

We liked the 80 KC (Sorry Bill D.). It equalized the L&N v. the Southern (the Southern is now pretty clearly the railroad for 1832. It should start first in every standard game--i.e. think LPS/MoPac). Additionally, the 80KC made it worth it for the GM&O to head north and deal with the bunch of fiddly small cities right outside KC that can really kick down the return on a run--which we liked, since the GM&O otherwise doesn't have a lot of good options.

We're currently experimenting with keeping the 80 KC (no stickies on my map) and improved Atlanta (40/60/80 -- and a grey 100, but we'll probably drop that--in our 2 plays with it, seems overpowered) to see how that changes things.

Thread: Additional Thoughts Re: 1832 Quick Review

tdewey — 2006-07-19T15:24:06+00:00

Having played 1832 a few more times a few flaws have emerged. Make no mistake -- I still like this game and it's probably my #2 or 3 favorite 18xx game but it is not going to topple 1856 as the best 18xx game.

Issues:

Atlanta & the VCF
(1) Atlanta. Atlanta starts as a 20 (yellow) and goes to 60 (Brown). Most red off board areas start at 30. The restult is that the companies around the northern and southern edges of the map (L&N, Southern, N&W, Seaboard, FCL, GM&O and GC) start first. The last two or three companies to start are the two companies that start in Atlanta. The short and long term money to be made from Atlanta pales compares to the offboard (e.g. the Kansas City offboard at 80 during phase 8+ is the highest "dot" on the board).

(2) The general unworthiness of Atlanta is accentuated by the West Virigina Coal Fields (minor company that for $80 lets you into a 40 at yellow and 60 at green). The Southern/Seaboard/L&N/N&W all compete to get as many runs as possible into the VCF and ignore Atlanta and the South.

(3) Multiple runs into Atlanta are difficult due to minor cities surrounding Atlanta (cities that start as 10 dot towns but can be upgraded to a regular yellow city) making 1856 style Toronto to Toronto runs essentially impossible.

Recommendation: Atlanta should, at the least have a grey upgrade to 80 so it rivals KC as the best spot on the board. This provides enough incentive for companies to get there early to get a token in for the endgame runs.

Florida/Miami
(1) The other map issue is the Miami area. The FCL gets a +50 token for Miami until phase 8 and runs for 70 (yellow) to 80 (brown) (more if it has the port). Under ideal conditions, the placement of Tampa and Jacksonville permits at least 2 trains hitting this dot and 3 trains can hit if it goes through the double-whistle stop just north of Miami. And therin lies the problem. The FCL is the WR all over again - can run for tremendous amounts early (more even than the WR in 56) _if_ (big if) the other players let the owner get the right tiles and let the owner run his 2-trains for awhile. This does not happen in my group (but must--we are convinced--in Dixon's). The double-whistle stop and the loss of the +50 token late in the game kills Miami and thus the FCL for the late-game. What actually needs to be there is a double-O.

Just so I'm not killed by other posts -- I think the second issue (Miami) is much less important than the first. Groups who rust trains slower than my group (and view the WR as one of the top 56 companies) will likely not have the problem we do with the FCL. Atlanta on the other hand I checked the tile manifest three-times to make sure there wasn't a grey - it just doesn't make sense and I'm hoping John or Bill will come out with a greay Atlanta variant.

Still a very solid game -- and one that any self-respecting 18xx needs to buy -- perhaps if we all harangue Bill we can get our grey 80-dot Atlanta?

Thread: 1832 Quick Review

tdewey — 2006-06-26T21:09:27+00:00

Rating of 8.5 on two plays - a complicated 18xx game which is only appropriate for experienced 18xx players. I would suggest having both 1856 and 1870 under your belt as the game combines elements of both.

There are are several unique features of 1832 (not counting a bizarre random civil war variant which I can't recommend). The primary focus are mergers which can occur at the end of any phase 4 or phase 5 stock round as well as when the first 6 is bought (a la 1856). Mergers, for all practical purposes, operate like destinations in 1856 - you can only merge with a company that you're connected with - and you want to merge your old and busted company with the new hotness of a 100-par value 1k capital company.

Dixon's position as king of the 18xx designer world is a solid as ever with this game. It rivals 1856 as the best 18xx game out there.

Our only quibbles:
The Key West token should have remained - history gets in the way of gameplay here. The Southern Bank should not be a variant - it's main use is to ensure that one of your companies gets a 5 or 6 if you've failed to plan properly or get hosed in the stock round before 5's come out - it is neither very difficult or very overpowering.

And where is the Dixon 18xx game with the 1856 company start and stock pool mechanisms and 1870 redemption mechanisms.