Game: Twilight Imperium

Thread: Second attempt

whats your game? — 2008-03-22T15:16:13+00:00

4 of us played Twilight IMperium last night, Dan who played last time, and 2 newbies. I had emailed FF having read on here what a good company they were for customer service asking aobut whether its possible to get the OOP ARmada upgrades or not, and they very kindly sent me the plasic pieces for nothing. Although there wasn't enoguh to cover everything, it was nice to have some 3d pieces, iun both games I've played so far there doesn't seem to be enoguh groundforces to cover the game, in plastic only had 4 flags. We assume there isn't a limit on amount of planets you can conquer so improvise, in this case going back to the cardboard pieces.

First complaint was it was an hour and half gone by the time we had the board set up and everyone's starting positions done, and explained the rules.

I had decided after last time that my strategyt would be to do a route of planets from my homeworlds to Metacol Rex and set of for their straight away, colonising as i went, this didn't work quite as planned when we built the map, just had one planet on the way. Thought if I can get there, put a spacedock there, then its an even distance to anywhere on the board to colonise, just build a carrier and groundforces and have fun. I had also installed a wormhole from my side of the board to the other for colonisation purposes, as the lad next to me had a hell of a lot fo planets to get through. ANd installed a supernova between me and dan on the other side, becuase I know he is an aggressive player.

Got to Metacol Rex ok, but just like last time I wondered how Dan had managed to expand his Empire so quickly, him and Joel had loads of planets, me and Nick only a couple. Turns out they've been playing it, move onto a Hex one movement, thne you immediately get all the planets on that Hex, even thoguh I had explained to them at the beginning its one movement from one planet to the next on the hex. Both lads who had doen this didn't want to change it, said its too late, now we are too far into the game, to have to change all this and strip it all away and work out where we were. SO we carried on all though I was annoyed, I couldn't win this game or the previosu one because for each planet I had colonised they had done 2, so 2 turns or so in I had 3 planets, Nick something similar, and they both had 5-6 planets each. No wonder they were wiping the floor with us.

Me and Dan both got an action card at the same time that let us go through the whole deck and pick the card we wanted. SO we split the deck in half and went through half each. Everyone seemed unhappy with this because of the amount of time it takes to go through all the cards and decide what you want, talk about downtime!

I played a card on Dan that meant he only collected half his income for a turn (wasn't the card I picked but one I drew). This was because I was annoyed that he had a massive Empire just because he was playing by different rules than me for the first hlaf of the game, and there was nothing I could do about it, and I thought he was going to win. This drew his wrath which meant next turn he destroyed Metacol Rex and all of my pieces on it with his action card, which left me severly crippled.

I then went and did some hot cross buns for them. When I got back was Told Joel had won (the other player with a big empire). Fair enough, how did he win exactly? We got to market place phase and Dan swapped him some stuff for influence. I reminded thme you can only trade coins and action cards (that kept miffing NIck saying 'what are you gonig to swap money for? here's my five can i have your five now?', kpet having to remind him you could offer credits for action cards). AS they were moaning it had been three and a half hours and they'd had enoguh, I said I didn't mind if they just wanted to say JOel won and wrap it up there, even if it was an illegal move. Joel said no I want to carry on a bit, he'd built an Empire and wanted the chance to use it. So it was political phase next, and I played a card that let me go through the political cards and choose one to activate, I picked one which meant everyone had to go down to 2 dreadnoughts (which is all I had). A bit of confusion other this card, do you still have to vote on it, or does it mean the rule on the card is law? I had shown dan my action card earlier and he had decided that the action meant it was automatically bought in and not voted on. SO when he questioned it I reminded him of this. SO he said fair enoguh. But as soon as he and Joel realised their big Empires would be downscaled through the loss of Dreadnoughts to the same size as the rest of us, they decided they had had enough of the game, so Joel was again declared winner and the game was over.

The outcome is I don't think any of them fancy it again, they feel it takes too long. The length was never an issue for me, it takes time to conquer planets and build empires and would like to play a proper game, which I feel I haven't because both times I've played mistakes have been made which I feel havew left me without a chacne of winning, bvecuase I have being developing at a slower rate than others, interpreting the rules as I saw them. The problem with the game is that there is too much bookkeeping, so you have to rely on others to work out there resources and influence correctly, because you haven't got enoguh time to double check everyone's, becuase the game takes so long as it is. SO its so easy for the game to be won by mismanagement.

I would like to play again , but its looking unlikely at this point.

Thread: Making an upgrade pack for TI 1st ed.

larienna — 2008-03-03T00:52:06+00:00

Long story made short: I have TI1, I want to make a mod for TI if possible compatible with all TI version. So I want to upgrade my TI game to TI 3, for example the planet values, but I still want to keep the game play like the original game. I also want it to be possible to play both TI1 and my mod with the same game.

So what I am thinking of is an upgrade pack for twillight imperium 1 that integrate some components of the third game while keeping the game play of the first game. There are interesting ideas in TI3 which makes the game more convenient to play (ex: planet cards) but I don't want the ressource management system in TI3. I don't want to make a new game either, that will be something else. Here is what I have tought so far and I want your comments.

--- Components ---
- Change the stats and configuration of all planets to TI3 with some systems from the expansion. Add nebulas and ion storms and new homeworlds.

- Add destroyer and war sun ships tokens for each color

- Planet cards for all the planets.

- Speaker token

- Race sheet: This will be new sheet using the production values and starting units of TI3. The races special abilities will be redefined since there is no more command/strategy/fleet counters. The technology track will be integrated on the race card. All 14 races will be available.

- Credits will be used as trade goods

- Victory conditions cards: Not like in the ti3 game, probably something similar to settlers of catan "largest army" and "longest road" system.

--- Rules to change ---

- Some technologies will be readapted to fit in the game. Will also need to fix a new price and determine how tech specialities would be applied. (like TI2(variable) or TI3(fixed)

- Dreadnought and war sun would not be able to take 2 hits. (because cannot flip tokens. Or still allow tokens flipping)

- During the combat phase only, each player make 1 move one after another like in the TI3 game but all the other phase are done simultaneously like in the original game.

- ressource spending will be done by exhausting cards, so there is no ressource collection

- First player determined by bidding influence at the end of the turn.

- I am stuck with the old action/politic cards. I hope it will be compatible with the few changes. One thing for sure is that the action cards that requires a race skill will not apply.

- Maybe add a drawback when people vote against political cards since there is absolutely no cards which has an "against" outcome.

- Victory conditions: Since the planet values has changed, I cannot use the galactic progression chart anymore. Maybe have 10 cards with a victory condition like setters of catan. Ex: "If you have 5 planets and you are the player with the highest amount of planets you can hold this victory card". You would need to hold a cartain amount of victory cards to win. The more players you are the less cards you need to hold in order to win. I was thinking something like:

6 players : 5 cards
5 players : 6 cards
4 players : 7 cards
3 players : 8 cards
2 players : 9 cards

There will probably be a few other details to adjust but that's it for now. What do you think? Does it make sense? does it keep the same TI1 spirit. Should I add additional stuff from ti3

Thread: First attempt

whats your game? — 2008-02-18T15:03:44+00:00

Bought TI 1 on ebay for £8.50 last week, this weekend a couple of mates came round and we had a go at it. Not too bad, not to difficult to understand. on the map layout though, wehad space all around and jsut a cluster of planets around each of our homeworlds, we then spent the game (3 of us) claiming our local planets. Once that was done I then realised Metacol Rex for its 9 influence, becasue our mate Dan had been thrashing us with influence since the beginning of the game (he started with 10) and every political round had been decided by him. Also around this time he pointed out that the rule book says that you don't get your new purchases straight away but at the end of the round (i thought you got your troops straight away to mark the planet as yours, and also thought you got space docks straight away as they aren't shipped there). There was a fracas over Metacol Rex because Dan let me go first, I immediately went for it, he then played a card stopping a persons fleet from moving, I pointed out this has to be played before a persons movement. He apologised, I let him off as its our first go. Now realise I sohuldn't have and suspect that he knew what it said all along but thought he'd try it the wrong way (I had similar card which cancels a political phase before its played). So I let him off, but he thought that dreadnoughts coudl still move (i thought they count as part of the fleet but he thought different) so i moved my dreadnought in instead of my carrier. He went in to fight it. Told him he coudln't because two rounds ago a political card banned fighting unless he paid a 35 credit waiver. He didn't want ot pay that, so withdrew, then reread the rulebook realised it was part of the fleet so I coudln't move in there. So he moved in and declared he had won the game.

All in all the game took 2 hours, not bad, but I'm guessing so quick because we were putting certain resources out as soon as we built them. Is there a good reason why you are not allowed to do this as people on here normally complain the game takes too long and never gets completed whereas our newbie one was finished in 2 hours.

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itchyrichy — 2007-02-10T10:48:37+00:00

Ships Sheet 2 of 2

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itchyrichy — 2007-02-10T10:48:24+00:00

Ships Sheet 1 of 2

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itchyrichy — 2007-02-10T10:48:03+00:00

Race cards and progress cards

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itchyrichy — 2007-02-10T10:46:23+00:00

Hex Sheet 1 of 4

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itchyrichy — 2007-02-10T10:44:55+00:00

Hex Sheet 3 of 4

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itchyrichy — 2007-02-10T10:44:37+00:00

Hex Sheet 2 of 4

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itchyrichy — 2007-02-10T10:43:54+00:00

Hex Sheet 1 of 4

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

Funestus — 2006-09-28T09:54:26+00:00

Neal, thanks for posting this. It looks very interesting!

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

nburghardt — 2006-09-28T05:20:57+00:00

I posted it in the Variants forum of TI3. Let me know if you prefer something else.

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

jspoto — 2006-09-27T20:34:52+00:00

Neal:

If you get the time, it would be great if you could post your variant in the files section for TI3, here on BGG. Definitely interested...

Thanks!

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

nburghardt — 2006-09-27T19:45:31+00:00

Svein,

I've never played TI2, but we have TI3 and LOVE it! We can't get enough of it. But I agree with your remarks, something is just not as exciting about the rules out-of-the-box. It tends to promote a cold war scenario. We've solved this with a few variants.

The main thing was did was adjust the cards in the objective deck. The Stage 1 objectives are achievable with little to no interaction, so we've swapped out the second Stage 1 with a Secret objective treating it like a public and the fourth and sixth cards in the stack with Stage 2 objectives. This means only three points are scorable from the easy ones in the objective deck and creates more scoring opportunities for players being more aggressive.

We also didn't like a player winning while weak. You know how a player will get a lead and then the others pound him/her down. Yet they could still win even with few pieces and planets remaining under their control by getting that last needed point via a Stage 1 objective. So our solution was make a rule that says to win while claiming an objective, our group requires it to occur on a two pt or better card. Imperium Rex is still in our last four cards, so we still have the timer to end the game if nobody is scoring sufficiently.

That's how we make the game more interesting and like I said we are completely addicted now. If you want a more detailed description of our variations, I'd gladly send/post them.

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

Aarontu — 2006-09-26T17:30:10+00:00

I like both TI2 and TI3.
Now that I have TI3, though, we usually play it instead of 2.
Back when I used to play TI2, we took care of the book keeping by using the production chart from Axis&Allies. We put our race marker on it to show resources, and a cruiser or GF to keep track of influence. It worked.

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

jedik77 — 2006-09-20T11:50:16+00:00

Thanks folks! I'm glad that TI2 is still "alive"...

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

kuhrusty — 2006-09-19T13:03:45+00:00

We play TI2; we never got around to trying TI3. We just use a little whiteboard with everyone's resources, influence, and ...uh, I forget what the other thing was. But at the point in the turn when you figure out turn order, you just write it on the whiteboard too, and then if influence/resources change during the turn, you've still got the turn order.

The bookkeeping isn't that big of a deal; when a planet changes hands (etc.), you just adjust the total on the whiteboard. And if at any point someone thinks there's been a mistake, you can re-calculate the total...

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

Funestus — 2006-09-19T12:51:51+00:00

We tried TI3 and it was a disappointment. On the surface it has many improvements, but the core game is IMO flawed. I dont want to go into great depth here. But the biggest problem in my view is that attacking is not encouraged. Having a good starting position (ie: luck) and then playing defensively while grabbing the Imperial strategy card is the way to go. The whole strategy card mechanism that was lifted straight from Puerto Rico works much less well here IMO. Both trade and politics works less well than it did in TI2.

The sad part is, TI3 DOES improve on TI2 in some ways. Mainly with book keeping and less downtime. The objective cards is a nice idea but the objectives themselves seem badly thought out. But to be honest I would rather play TI2 than TI3. Since TI3 came out and flopped for us we have played neither, but Im seriously considering getting TI2 out of the basement.

I also hope the expansion for TI3 will fix the problems. Also Ive been meaning to browse the forums to see if there is any nice sounding "fixes" that we could try..

That being said, quite a few people seem to enjoy TI3 just fine.. my advice is try before you buy

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

jedik77 — 2006-09-19T05:55:28+00:00

If you dont have a laptop, my advice is that you make a track on paper to track influence and resources (and possibly credits). Then use markers from the players to signify their position. Whenever someone takes a planet or gets a tech, adjust the markers.

I plan to do something like that!

Svein, did you try TI3, and if you did how would you compare it to 2nd edition?

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

Funestus — 2006-09-18T18:50:38+00:00

Our TI2 games used to be quite long when playing by the standard rules, in fact I think we maybe only ever finished one game using that.

We often played with a variant that made sure the game ended, I think by rolling a D10 at the end of every round and adding the numbers until the total was a certain number. Then the game ended if noone else had won it in the meantime. This worked quite well for making sure we finished the game in one evening while also preventing the last round kamikaze rush that would happen if people knew it was the last round.

If you dont have a laptop, my advice is that you make a track on paper to track influence and resources (and possibly credits). Then use markers from the players to signify their position. Whenever someone takes a planet or gets a tech, adjust the markers. This should be almost as good as having a laptop.

Good luck!

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

jedik77 — 2006-09-18T13:51:54+00:00

Thanks for the advice Svein, but I don't have a laptop... I'm prepared for some counting - when I get TI2 on the table, it will be a small "sacrifice"! Plus, I have Hope's end deed cards for some additional help.

Did you "break" the game in two or more sessions or there's no need to do it? How long were your average plays?

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

Funestus — 2006-09-18T08:27:06+00:00

If at all possible, try to use a laptop and run the TI2 manager program to help with book-keeping. This is almost required unless you are prepared to do a lot of counting. Especially if you only play the base game without the deed cards to help. Ideally it should be hooked up to a tv or projector so everyone has a good view of the situation.

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

jedik77 — 2006-09-17T19:36:18+00:00

Yep, it still sits, not on the shelf, but on the floor... I'm still going through the rules and clearing all confusing things, and then I'll attack: "come on guys, it's great, you'll see..."

Well, I was thinking, like when we play "Axis & Allies", to "break" the game in few sessions, if it will take too long to finish in one evening. Yes, it requires a lot of writing and storing, but... Is that possible with 3rd edition ( to "brake" it )...?

And, about book-keeping, I plan to write down, on one paper, two important things that need to be carefully tracked: resources and influence, and, if necessary, number of planets and techs which are easy to track. Plus keeping in mind race's abilities and tech-advantages... It shouldn't be too hard. I hope!

I hope to play it this year! Few days ago friend invited me to play "War of the Rings" with some new folks, and then I'll try to "guide" all of them to TI2...

I would probably like TI3 too, and one day it may be mine... I'll see what will be reactions on 2nd edition!

I wish you many great TI moments!

Thread: Re: Still playing TI2...?

GaryP — 2006-09-17T18:37:40+00:00

I have not played TI2, but I was very interested in the game. I found out about it about a year after it was out of print. I loved the concept, but was quite certain my usual gaming group would never play it.

When TI3 was announced, I was excited and held off buying a copy of TI2. I liked what I was reading about the changes from TI2. I ended up buying a copy of TI3 shortly after it was released.

Unfortunately, it was still too long and involved to get much table time with my typical opponents. I have only played twice, although we all wanted to play more. (I am currently trying to get a game of it going in a couple weeks.) Thus, you may very well be correct that TI3 is too much for your group.

However, based on my reading, I do not believe TI2 is really any simpler. In fact, there is a great deal more bookkeeping in TI2. There are programs out there to simplify it, but the resource management was greatly cleaned up in TI3. Without the strategy cards, TI2 is likely easier to teach, but overall, my sense was that TI3 plays more smoothly with much less downtime between players' actions. Someone who has played both would be able to make more meaningful comparisons, but I thought my impressions may be of worth, since I faced a similar decision a while ago. I very much enjoy TI3 and want to play it more often, but the reality is that unless your group really enjoys longer, involved games, any version of Twilight Imperium is likely to spend too much time on the shelf.

Thread: Still playing TI2...?

jedik77 — 2006-09-17T14:31:59+00:00

Hello there!

I'm wondering is someone still playing TI2 after release of TI3? I bought TI2 rather than latest version for several reasons ( most important is that 3rd editon looks maybe too complex for my "causal gaming" friends ).

If you own both copies, do you like TI2 like you did before, or you forgot about it?

Peace!

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friedricetheman — 2006-09-06T14:37:49+00:00

The first edition box (back) of Twilight Imperium.

Thread: Re: Cards for Twilight Imperium First Edition

MasterPlayer — 2006-07-04T14:13:10+00:00

Hi - I have a site for my own boardgame design and on this site there is a page which has a downloadable file analysing TI1&2 (& partlyTI3).
This file should contain what you are looking for.
http://rebelmage0.tripod.com/galacticdomination/id11.html

Thread: Cards for Twilight Imperium First Edition

JDDudrey — 2006-07-03T22:57:15+00:00

I recently purchased a copy of Twilight Imperium first edition here on the geek. The game came with all the expansions and for the last day and a half or so I have been busy seperating everything into sets and storing them in shoe boxes so that I don't have to force the entire game on anyone at one time. My question is, does a list exist somewhere that says what card's come with what expansion and maybe how many? Any help on this subject would be appreciated.

Thread: I am the most bad-ass dude in the galaxy.

kuhrusty — 2006-04-29T13:50:19+00:00

5-player game: me, Alf, Dan, Ray, and Will. Fun facts:
- I was the only person who fought with Alf.
- I was the only person who fought with Dan.
- I was the only person who fought with Will.
- Ray didn't fight with anyone the whole game (!!), but I'm pretty sure I'm the only person he attacked indirectly with a card. (I think it was a Sabotage card which cost me 50 credits--ouch!)
- In other words, in a 5-player game, I was in every fight in the entire game.
- Despite all that, I won!! (That is, when we called the game because people had to go home, I was the only one at Empire; there were a couple people at Republic, and a couple farther back.)
- If the game had gone one or two turns longer, I would have been wiped off the map. (I'm still calling it a win, though, ha ha.)

So the week before, I had been sitting next to Alf, and what started off as a minor incident (one of my cruisers sort of crashed into one of his, and they blew each other up--an honest navigational error which he insisted on calling "an unprovoked attack") escalated through Secret Industrial Agents and Stellar Criminals into all-out war, so that we spent the entire game beating on each other. ("No, now we're even!" etc.) By the end, I owned all the planets in his home system, and had built a spacedock on one of them. (I tied for first in that game.)

Alf's a nice guy, and I felt bad about destroying his civilization, so this week, before the game, we agreed: "limited warfare" was the concept for the evening.

To save time (and so that we can set up without waiting for the latecomers to show up), we deal out the tiles at random, keeping Mecatol Rex and the home systems in the normal places. I drew Letnev, the guys who start off with two dreadnaughts and tough ground forces. On my left was Alf again (oops); empty space separated us from Dan on Alf's left and Will on my right, with Ray on the other side of the galaxy. It looked like Alf & I were going to be fighting over the few planets near us, Dan and Ray were going to be fighting over a considerably larger set of planets riddled with wormholes (maybe half the board), and Will had a nice area of his own to expand into.

(It mostly went like that, except that Dan and Ray didn't fight! Their half of the galaxy was so rich that they just split it up without any violence at all. Oooh I hate it when your opponents don't grind each other down!)

Early on, Alf bypassed the systems closest to him and grabbed the only system which connected the two of us to the rest of the galaxy. (It was the best system in our little cluster, too: Abyz and Fria, 5/1 and 3/1.) Although it was two hexes from each of our home worlds, any reasonable person looking at the arrangement of planets around us would agree that that system was meant to belong to me!

I was pretty sure I was dooming the two of us to spending the entire game strangling each other over this one stupid system while everyone else grew strong, but the alternative didn't look any better--if I headed off towards Will, Alf was pretty quickly going to run out of planets to grab, at which point he'd be faced with crossing empty space to fight a tough-looking Dan, or just hopping next door and beating up a weak-looking me. So I attacked him.

I managed to take the system, and I built a spacedock there the next turn. (We might have had another battle or two there, I don't remember.) Shortly after that, Dan sailed past the unclaimed Mecatol Rex (part of his deal with Ray) to grab a system two hexes from my home. This was clearly unacceptable, so I attacked him.

Somewhere in here, I was trying to make peace with Alf; I even offered to vacate the system we'd been fighting over, leaving it for him & sacrificing my spacedock, if we would be best buddies for the rest of the game. He couldn't commit to that (vengeful and honest--that's a tough mix!), but somehow we wound up agreeing that he wouldn't attack me for three turns. (Well, I wanted to go fight with Dan some more, and Alf was happy to build up to stomp me.)

The fight with Dan didn't get serious until the very end of the game; he kept massing his forces but not using them. (Everyone was doing that. Maddening I tell you! I had to start making fun of everyone else for not attacking each other--I really needed someone else to attack Dan--but it didn't help.) Alf kept his word and didn't attack for those three turns, which I spent running around grabbing planets (and maybe lightly attacking Dan and/or Will, I don't remember).

When Alf's hourglass-of-doom ran out, he stepped into my space and vaporized half my fleet. Dan also finally showed up and vaporized the other half. However, Alf hadn't brought any ground forces, so he didn't take the planets from me! And I was going last that turn (the last turn in the game), so I was able to zip around with my few remaining cruisers with Stasis Capsules and grab enough planets back from Dan and Will to advance to Empire.

Phew! A nail-biter for me at the end there, but I'm not sure everyone else was looking at the victory conditions and what I was trying to do; I think their focus was more on the more satisfying goal of stomping me.

(Despite being in all the fights, I did really well with trade agreements; when I drew the card which gives you a huge bonus if you have trade agreements with everyone else in the game, I had three in play, and a turn or two later I drew another one... so at the start of my next movement phase, I offered the trade agreement, which was accepted; played the bonus card, which Ray sabotaged; and then attacked someone, breaking our trade agreement. It might have even been the one I'd just played...)

Anyway, the thing which was surprising to me was how well I did even though I was in, you know, all the fights. Normally, it seems like the players who bash each other don't do as well as the ones who sit back and wait to pick up the pieces. (Well, that certainly would have been true in this case if the game had gone on another turn or two, so I was lucky there.)

Another thing this underscored was the importance of buying technologies. Even when you'd really like more units, if you fall behind in technologies, it's tough to catch up. These guys had these huge fleets which they weren't even using, and some of them ended the game with only four or so technologies. (Now, it's true, a fleet and no technologies will get you technologies a heck of a lot easier than technologies and no fleet will get you a fleet... so this may just be another case where I got really lucky on the timing of the end of the game.)

Oh, and Ray not fighting anyone the entire game... he was tied for second, and probably would have gone on to win if we'd played longer, but still--he's normally a vicious bastard who will attack you for no reason at all, so I intend to never let him live that down.

And everyone else can expect to be reminded that I fought everyone... and won!

Thread: Re: TI3- decisions, decisions...

antiussentiment — 2006-04-03T12:23:29+00:00

Sky Knight X wrote:
a)

e) We play ISC = 1 VP. That simple tweak seems to fix all of the problems associated with the 2VP ISC. .

the more players you have the less of a problem the 2vp ISC is, and it is less of a problem still if you play to 14 points, because some juicy public objectives come up in latter turns. i enjoy this game with three players as it is not that long with three but you must play to 14 vp or follow the sugestion above.

and realy aprox AU$150 for this much fun is great value.

a.

Thread: Re: TI3- decisions, decisions...

Sky Knight X — 2006-04-02T23:05:10+00:00

a) I guess we play quicker than others, but 4 hours seems typical. Downtime isn't a big deal, especially compared to Shogun.

b) All the stuff actually helps keeping track of things easier. TI2 was incredibly fiddly with endless accounting every turn or tracking everything on paper. Now, the game does it all for you.

c) It takes a few minutes to explain it, then a turn to get the hang of it. I just played with a couple of newbies last weekend and they were up to speed in no time.

d) I actually like the game with three players. It has a diffent feel. It gives the players more time to build up and expand, where with six players, combat plays a major role faster. Five players works just fine.

e) We play ISC = 1 VP. That simple tweak seems to fix all of the problems associated with the 2VP ISC. After 20+ games of the 3rd edition, I still have mixed feelings on turtling. Mostly, there is enough variety in victory point conditions that it isn't a problem, but in a few games it has reared its ugly head.

It all depends on how much weight you put on perceived negatives. For some players, a certain negative really ruins the experience. I am very forgiving on traditional negatives, if the overall experience and gameplay outweigh the niggly problems. TI3 does so magnificently.

Thread: Re: TI3- decisions, decisions...

MrSkeletor — 2006-04-02T22:58:25+00:00

Here is my 5 cents..

fixpix wrote:
I love the theme...a space exploration/negociation/conquest game with beautiful componets is something I always dreamed of owning/playing. Unfortunately I'm not sure the others will be just as enthusiastic about it as I would. But owning 20 games and explaining those 20 games to my group, studying their non-gamer reactions to various game types gave me a bit of understanding about what they would like/dislike in a game so I'd like to ask your help into clearing some questions for me and help me decide whether I should purchase this game or not.

BAH, live your dream and just get it. If you can't find anyone to play, play online. You're the one buying the games, so cater to yourself, not your friends. If they want 'non-gamer stuff' let them buy it.

a) One of the most comon observation about the game was it's lenght. Everybody says playing TI3 is like preparing for a crusade. My group is used to playing longer games (A&A, Shogun, Descent). We usually play in the weekend and have about 6 h Friday night and maybe 8 h Saturday so we could split the game in two sessions. What we don't like about longer games are downtime and lack of player interaction. We could live with a solitaire type of game, but 30-45 minutes downtime per player as it happens when we play Shogun...that is a big minus.

Its a long game, but downtime is not an issue due to the purto rico style of play. There also is certainly not a lack of player interaction, so I wouldn't worry about that. I find it one of those games that feels shorter than it is.

b) Another thing that struck me was the plethora of markers, symbols, charts and other info spread before the players. While we're not dumb-1-page-manual-or-else-I-get-headache players we don't like needlessly intricated mechanics also. My question is how many things are you keeping track of at one given moment and how many rules will we get wrong at our first play? How many decisions are favoured by remembering as much as you can about everything every player has in front of him?

Keeping track of things is not very hard at all. The only thing that gets hard to remember are the Tech cards cause there is so many of them, but they are laid out in front of players so you can read them at any time.

c) While we're at intricated games...How hard is it for this game to be learned by something who doesn't really have patience for 1 h explanations and generally interrupt me every minute with the "let's play already, I'll learn it as we go" line?:P

I find this game an utter pain in the ass to teach. It's just way too open to be able to explain it in a structured way. The rules are available online - get players to read it!

d) Usually I play boardgames with 2 other people and on occasions I can convince another 2 to join, so I'll be looking at either 3 or 5 players games. Is there a significant difference between those two groups and if there is, which one is better?

Not sure, but I hear the best number is 6. 4 is different 'cause all roles will get selected. 3 might not be as good because there are not enough players to negaotiate and hold votes, since 2 will end up teaming up. Then again it will probably make for a quicker game.

e) Many people have expressed their concern with some "broken" aspects of the game, mainly the ISC and the turtle strategy. The ISC can be easily tweaked but with the conflict aspect of the game I have some doubts. While I do respect the fact that war should not always be the best path and it's nice to have other ways of winning the game, making sure it's not the luckiest player but also the most skillful one who wins the game, we like to get rough every once in a while . And if the rules prevent that by making defensive tactics more viable, I have the feeling we'll get bored soon. Now I never played the game so that's why I'm asking...but if with sizable fleets all you gain are phyrric victories then that's also a big minus.

What you have to realise is that different races have different ways of winning the game. The war races must threaten and attack and approch the game like an evil empire to win. The weaker combat races must use negotiation, politics and subtlety to win. Basically you need to play up to your races strength. If you want a more combat heavy game, just pull out the combat monster races and play with them.

Thread: Re: TI3- decisions, decisions...

robartin — 2006-04-02T21:08:23+00:00

fixpix wrote:
a) One of the most comon observation about the game was it's lenght. Everybody says playing TI3 is like preparing for a crusade. My group is used to playing longer games (A&A, Shogun, Descent). We usually play in the weekend and have about 6 h Friday night and maybe 8 h Saturday so we could split the game in two sessions. What we don't like about longer games are downtime and lack of player interaction. We could live with a solitaire type of game, but 30-45 minutes downtime per player as it happens when we play Shogun...that is a big minus.

The game runs about 1 to 1.5 hours per player. You shouldn't expect it to take longer than that. Downtime is fairly low due to the "threaded turns" mechanism, where each player's turn is split into many small pieces instead of one longer turn.

b) Another thing that struck me was the plethora of markers, symbols, charts and other info spread before the players. While we're not dumb-1-page-manual-or-else-I-get-headache players we don't like needlessly intricated mechanics also. My question is how many things are you keeping track of at one given moment and how many rules will we get wrong at our first play? How many decisions are favoured by remembering as much as you can about everything every player has in front of him?

The markers largely exist in support of threaded turns. This can be a bit difficult to get used to at first, but once you get the hang of it it's not bad at all. There are actually only about 6 kinds of markers (command counters, trade goods, fighters, ground forces, bonus counters, influence markers). There appear to be a lot because each player has his own color coded set.

c) While we're at intricated games...How hard is it for this game to be learned by something who doesn't really have patience for 1 h explanations and generally interrupt me every minute with the "let's play already, I'll learn it as we go" line?:P

Once you get used to the threaded turns, the way that turn order works, and the way that ship movement works, the rest of the game is pretty easy. Your first game will definitely be a learning game. The first several rounds may be a bit painful.

d) Usually I play boardgames with 2 other people and on occasions I can convince another 2 to join, so I'll be looking at either 3 or 5 players games. Is there a significant difference between those two groups and if there is, which one is better?

They should both be fine. 5 players is the least balanced board setup, but probably not enough to throw the game out. There is an alternate board setup which purports to be more balanced, but TI3 is one of those "self balancing" games. Players need to always be looking for who is holding the advantage and apply appropriate pressure to that player.

e) Many people have expressed their concern with some "broken" aspects of the game, mainly the ISC and the turtle strategy. The ISC can be easily tweaked but with the conflict aspect of the game I have some doubts. While I do respect the fact that war should not always be the best path and it's nice to have other ways of winning the game, making sure it's not the luckiest player but also the most skillful one who wins the game, we like to get rough every once in a while . And if the rules prevent that by making defensive tactics more viable, I have the feeling we'll get bored soon. Now I never played the game so that's why I'm asking...but if with sizable fleets all you gain are phyrric victories then that's also a big minus.

I'm still playing with the original ISC and it seems OK overall. It probably could be better. Turtling has not been a problem in our games. There are numerous suggested ways to tune this if your group finds it to be a problem.

Ok, that's about all I can think of, sorry for the long post and hope to hear as many oppinions as possible. Thanks for helping me out.

I've only played the game a few times, but it's surprisingly enjoyable. I recommend picking it up and giving it a try. If you don't like it, I doubt you'd have problems finding someone to buy it used.

Thread: TI3- decisions, decisions...

fixpix — 2006-04-02T14:20:07+00:00

Hi

I read many things about this game, saw a lot of pictures, weigh arguments back and forth to the result of.... If it weren't for the price tag and the probability that nobody would want to play it with me I would have bought this game long ago...

I love the theme...a space exploration/negociation/conquest game with beautiful componets is something I always dreamed of owning/playing. Unfortunately I'm not sure the others will be just as enthusiastic about it as I would. But owning 20 games and explaining those 20 games to my group, studying their non-gamer reactions to various game types gave me a bit of understanding about what they would like/dislike in a game so I'd like to ask your help into clearing some questions for me and help me decide whether I should purchase this game or not.

a) One of the most comon observation about the game was it's lenght. Everybody says playing TI3 is like preparing for a crusade. My group is used to playing longer games (A&A, Shogun, Descent). We usually play in the weekend and have about 6 h Friday night and maybe 8 h Saturday so we could split the game in two sessions. What we don't like about longer games are downtime and lack of player interaction. We could live with a solitaire type of game, but 30-45 minutes downtime per player as it happens when we play Shogun...that is a big minus.

b) Another thing that struck me was the plethora of markers, symbols, charts and other info spread before the players. While we're not dumb-1-page-manual-or-else-I-get-headache players we don't like needlessly intricated mechanics also. My question is how many things are you keeping track of at one given moment and how many rules will we get wrong at our first play? How many decisions are favoured by remembering as much as you can about everything every player has in front of him?

c) While we're at intricated games...How hard is it for this game to be learned by something who doesn't really have patience for 1 h explanations and generally interrupt me every minute with the "let's play already, I'll learn it as we go" line?:P

d) Usually I play boardgames with 2 other people and on occasions I can convince another 2 to join, so I'll be looking at either 3 or 5 players games. Is there a significant difference between those two groups and if there is, which one is better?

e) Many people have expressed their concern with some "broken" aspects of the game, mainly the ISC and the turtle strategy. The ISC can be easily tweaked but with the conflict aspect of the game I have some doubts. While I do respect the fact that war should not always be the best path and it's nice to have other ways of winning the game, making sure it's not the luckiest player but also the most skillful one who wins the game, we like to get rough every once in a while . And if the rules prevent that by making defensive tactics more viable, I have the feeling we'll get bored soon. Now I never played the game so that's why I'm asking...but if with sizable fleets all you gain are phyrric victories then that's also a big minus.

Ok, that's about all I can think of, sorry for the long post and hope to hear as many oppinions as possible. Thanks for helping me out.

Thread: Re: Rules pdf: ti2rules.pdf

Chris__M — 2006-02-21T20:01:05+00:00

Excellent

Jim was also very quick to reply to my initial enquiry. Sound like a great bunch of people.

Chris

Thread: Re: Rules pdf: ti2rules.pdf

Lindsey — 2006-02-20T20:22:55+00:00

That was a quick response! Jim Ripka from Fantasy Flight responded, and said that they’re fine with having the rules posted, here. So I’ve uploaded the rules, and they should show up here reasonably soon.

Thread: Re: Rules pdf: ti2rules.pdf

Lindsey — 2006-02-19T21:56:28+00:00

I’ve sent a note to Fantasy Flight — I’d feel a bit weird submitting someone else’s file to the site without their permission.

Thread: Re: Rules pdf: ti2rules.pdf

Chris__M — 2006-02-19T20:49:43+00:00

BTW, have now had a couple of responses by mail, so thanks to those people for offering to send me the file.

Chris

Thread: Re: Rules pdf: ti2rules.pdf

Chris__M — 2006-02-19T20:46:42+00:00

Lindsey wrote:
Did they say whether they were okay with the file being posted here on BoardGameGeek? I could submit it to the site.

They didn't specifically say that they were ok about it. However, it was their suggestion that I look here for it, which suggests they assumed it would be already here, and that they aren't too worried about that.

Chris

Thread: Re: Rules pdf: ti2rules.pdf

cloudstalkerian — 2006-02-19T19:45:03+00:00

It was on public domain for a long time available on their website. So i see no technical reason for why it would be wrong for it to be posted online

Thread: Re: Rules pdf: ti2rules.pdf

Lindsey — 2006-02-19T18:52:10+00:00

Did they say whether they were okay with the file being posted here on BoardGameGeek? I could submit it to the site.

Thread: Rules pdf: ti2rules.pdf

Chris__M — 2006-02-19T11:33:07+00:00

There was, at one point, a link to the ti2rules.pdf - the rules to Twilight Imperium 2 - at http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/, but both the link and (more importantly) the file have now gone.

I wrote to Fantasy Flight, asking if they could send me the file, and got a pleasant reply saying they no longer had it, but suggesting I ask here - "They have many pdfs that we do not have.".

I realise that it is not normal practice to share copyright information on the geek (hence the use of links), but given that Fantasy Flight themselves have pointed me back here, it would appear that they wouldn't mind too much.

Can anyone who has this file and is willing to email them to me, please get in touch.

Many thanks

Chris

Thread: Re: First game played: Old School empire builder!

oetan — 2006-01-23T08:11:02+00:00

I've never played the first edition, but I like 3th edition very much. The roles actually make the game very doable, they function as a kind of player aid sheets. One role is the imperial role, that functions as a clock since the owner gets 2 VP's that turn. Some people don't like this mechanism, but I think it's fine, since the secondary action with that role is a free building phase for the other players. So you can get two VP's, at the cost of everyone else building and most likely targeting you.

But if you own the first edition and you like it as it is, why buy the third?

Thread: TI second edition influence/income tracker program

Alan_De_Smet — 2005-12-21T22:00:26+00:00

For anyone still playing second edition, you might be interested in my calcutor program. It tracks planet ownership and the state of several important laws (given that you have to tell it when one of those laws passes or fails or when a planet changes ownership). From that it tells you how much income and how many votes you get. it also tells you how much technologies cost (give discounts for planet ownership) and the turn order based on influence.

It's free and should work in any modern browser. You can save a copy to your local computer to use it offline.

Get it here: http://www.highprogrammer.com/alan/games/ti2/t/

Thread: First game played: Old School empire builder!

Jpwoo — 2005-12-10T09:30:44+00:00

Gaming was canceled tonight. So instead of fighting a flying eyeball in a gully while trying to claim the old captains gold, the remenants of our rpg group decided to play some Pax Imperium.

Scott had played a long time ago with three, and remembered being iffy about it.

Tonight we had

Scott: Playing the cave dwelling mammals
April: Playing the Trader kitties
Jeff1 (me): Playing the Influence lizards
Jeff2: Playing the hate bugs

The first couple of turns took us a while to get going. Jeff2 and I had played a test game of 2 on 2 a couple of months back. We spent some time reading through the rules. Then we built the board slighlty wrong, and went back and redid the outer rim. The result was lots of planets on the outer ring, Lots of empty space in the middle, and then REX all alone.

Play order went as above. Scott had access to good planets but he shared access with April. There was also a single planet that Jeff2 could strike at as well. April shared with Scott but had a nice supernova/asteroid belt sheild between me and she. I was pretty well isolated with a good selection of planets to grab. Though mostly influence planets. Jeff2 was kind of penned in, with only a couple of low hanging fruit systems, then he would bump into me or Scott.

The game started up, and I remembered our little test game rushing REX seemed to work out. So I made sure I did that. April consolidated and kept to herself, though she did land a planet right beside Scotts homeworld! Scott and Jeff2 started out with a nice little turfwar in the begining.

One amusing moment came when the holy planet edict came up. This law turns a planets production to 0. Basically I carried enough votes to pick the planet, so Scott and Jeff got into a bidding war. I ended up making 11 bucks worth of bribe to make a nearly useless planet completely useless, so that Scott didn't loose production. The 11 bucks certainly paid off. (side note, poker chips worked very well for money rather than the cardboard chits.)

The middle of the game the wars settled down and everyone looked to establish themselves. Soon Everyone had a trade agreement with everyone else. I was making like 45 a turn just on trade, and I think everyone else was too. So peace reigned for a long time while armies grew and April and I bought techs. We passed the law that makes all units cost +2 bucks, further making the tech advance seem like a good idea. When April noticed that I was close to winning, she called me out and we moved into the more chaotic end game.

April sent a strike force to wrest the mighty REX from my grip. She blew up my navy, but I anilhilated hers. Leaving me with only a couple of ships, a dread and a crusier I think. While both Jeff and Scott lurked like vultures. Jeff came in and took REX from me. Thus starting my downfall. I should have bought a factory for REX early when I had it. So I could constantly be building a force there. Holding the seat of government is nice, but at the same time it makes you a big target.

With the raving insects in control of the capitol, Jeff turned his huge armada against what was left of my big stack. It was getting late, so I duked it out with him when I should have used my tactical retreat card. His superior quality and quantity blew me away and I was lucky to escape with two dreds. Scott being hemmed in between Jeff and April had built up a fighterheavy defensive force, and wasn't suited to planet busting.

While the first half of the game had big money from lots of trading, in the second half Scott played the card that eliminated all trade pacts. (We later figured out about skills and the fact that he couldn't do this with his race, but we didn't want to Retconn an hour) This started the more sparse trading. Mostly between Jeff2 and April, the games leaders.

So I had two stacks, one on my home planet and a big stack of cruisers on my base by the asteroid feild to protect myself from april's scary assault force. She Curiously enough, blew up all my crusiers with the alien artifact, and then slammed hard into REX taking it in force from Jeff's bug hoard. Jeff had taken another of my systems by then, and he picked off a third. So the once almost winning empire of lizards was now a tiny couple of systems. Struggling to repell anyone.

We pretty much called it a game at 3AM, but Scott launched an attack at Jeff's flank, anyway since he had never really gotten into the thick of the fight. He needed trade agreements to get his special powers, and by the end of the game there was little to no trade goign on.

So we ended the game there, I think April had 28 influence and the 11 techs she needed. So she was only 2 influence short of winning. Jeff2 was incredibly close just a turn before that with like 27 inflence and enough techs. Scott somehow never really got rolling i don't know what his best position was. I had 30 influence once but only 9 techs.... So no king for me, before I got anihilated. It was a good close game. Even when we called the game there was no clear person who was going to win it. April was exposed enough that she probably wouldn't be able to take enough to win the next turn. Jeff2's navies were scattered, and while still formidable he wasn't prepped for world crashing anymore. Scott had a huge navy, and likely was in a good place to make headway, as his fleet was the only one not crippled by heavy losses. All I could do at that point was spit out fighters and turtle until the tides turned again. I think we could have played another hour at least, unless something clever happened.

I really liked this game. It has all the flaws of games of its ilk, king making, and some clunky accounting, but it was still a lot of fun. I am glad I played the old edition before I have played the 3rd edition. I am not sure how I feel about them eurogaming it up. the big hexes and plastic bits are awesome, but there is a special feeling playing a game without the cute mechanics of a euro. It feels more like a simulation than a game. The role selecting mechanism from Peurto Rico that they ported in might make it feel more like a game and less like trying to weild the might of a nation. Haveing not played both I can't say. Can anyone out there comment?

I would never play with 3, but I would love to play it with 5 or 6. April liked the game a good deal, and not just cause she won. She had a good time, she is a more hardcore gamer than she thought! There was a lot of post mortum discussion in the car on the way home too. That is a good sign. I wouldn't want to make this my bread an butter, but that 5 hours really flew by, I could do this once or twice a year.

Thanks for reading my sleep deprived rambling.

Image

ecasco_online — 2005-07-28T20:41:38+00:00