Game: Shadow Hunters

Thread: Re: FAQ/ERRATA

Buster Brown — 2008-11-27T19:58:32+00:00

In regards to the first-aid kit, we are playing according to our house rule that the first-aid kit can only be used to harm someone if they are a shadow character whose identity has been revealed (their role card now face-up on the table). It helps to level the playing field somewhat, as the werewolf and the vampire's special abilities and high hit points are tough to overcome.

Thread: Re: discard?

raviv — 2008-11-23T08:24:00+00:00

You are forced to keep it, and use its effects everytime they are applicable.
Otherwise, the "cursed" items would have no meaning.
I think it's in the "official FAQ" for the game.

Thread: discard?

mtpoll — 2008-11-23T07:56:37+00:00

can you discard equipment, or are you forced to keep it? a literal interpretation of the rules seems to suggest that it is bound to you, like it or not.

Thread: Re: Yet Another Hermit Question

Grimwold — 2008-11-22T14:27:47+00:00

If you are a hunter and receive such a card, you would reply (something like) "That does not apply to me"...
The 'take one damage' only apples if you are neutral AND on full health.

Charles can only use his ability once per turn, as far as I am aware.

Thread: Yet Another Hermit Question

Revelade — 2008-11-22T12:56:46+00:00

Okay so let's say you are a hunter and you get a a card:

"I bet you are NEUTRAL. If you are heal 1 damage! (If fully healed, take a damage!)"

Would you say nothing happens? Or would the extended wording give you a damage anyway?

ALSO PLEASE ANSWER THIS ONE...

Can Charles use his ability more than once per turn?

Thread: Re: Emi's Teleport

Eeeville — 2008-11-20T16:34:15+00:00

raviv wrote:
You are wrong.
See Q6 in the Q&A section in the last page of the rules.
Emi can move to 2 different places : the other area in the same range, and the closest area in the adjacent range.

also, you are mixing the terms "area" with "range". Each card is an "area", while each pair is a "range".

from the rulebook :
Q6: When I use “Emi’s” special ability “Teleport”,
can I choose to move to an Area Card in a
different range than I’m in now?
A6: Yes you can. If “Emi” uses her special ability
“Teleport”, she can move to either the Area Card
paired to the one she’s currently occupying, or the closest
Area Card on the opposite side in the adjacent pair.

Thanks, I forgot about the FAQ in the rulebook!

Thread: Re: Emi's Teleport

locusshifter — 2008-11-20T14:45:10+00:00

You can move to an adjacent card in the same box/area. That's it.

Thread: Re: Emi's Teleport

raviv — 2008-11-20T14:42:23+00:00

You are wrong.
See Q6 in the Q&A section in the last page of the rules.
Emi can move to 2 different places : the other area in the same range, and the closest area in the adjacent range.

also, you are mixing the terms "area" with "range". Each card is an "area", while each pair is a "range".

from the rulebook :
Q6: When I use “Emi’s” special ability “Teleport”,
can I choose to move to an Area Card in a
different range than I’m in now?
A6: Yes you can. If “Emi” uses her special ability
“Teleport”, she can move to either the Area Card
paired to the one she’s currently occupying, or the closest
Area Card on the opposite side in the adjacent pair.

Thread: Emi's Teleport

Eeeville — 2008-11-20T14:20:21+00:00

Emi's Teleport states:

When you move, you choose either to roll the dice normally OR move to an adjacent Area Card without rolling the dice

I'm assuming the rules mean that Emi can opt to move to an adjacent area card within her area rather than doing the following:

You have Weird Woods on the top left area space on the area above the upside down triangle. For the area to the left of the upside down triangle you have the Church on the top half and a Cemetery on the bottom half. If Emi is on the Church and reveals herself to Teleport. My interpretation is that she can only move to the Cemetery card, since I believe it's meant to be adjacent card within your given area. My friend interpreted that she could Teleport to either the Weird Woods or the Cemetery since the cards are adjacent to one another despite them being in different areas.

We house ruled that it was adjacent card within the same area unless we find out otherwise, which is why I am asking

Thread: Re: movement?

mtpoll — 2008-11-18T20:06:15+00:00

OOOOOhhh.. I see.

See, page one of the rule book has a diagram on which the "Area Card" spaces are numbered 1-6, so I assumed that those were the numbers referenced by the die rolls... I hadn't even noticed the numbers on the actual cards.

thanks

Thread: Re: movement?

Toasty — 2008-11-18T16:04:27+00:00

You can't roll a 1 with two dice, numbers are 2-10 (d6+d4). Some boxes use two numbers, so 2&3, 4&5 are used by two of the boxes. A 7 means you can go anywhere you like.

Thread: Re: movement?

raviv — 2008-11-18T16:02:12+00:00

Each of the area cards have 1 or 2 numbers on it, ranging from 2 to 10, so all the results are covered.
7 is the exception. If you roll 7, you get to choose where to go.

Thread: movement?

mtpoll — 2008-11-18T15:45:48+00:00

I haven't gotten that far into reading the rules, and already I'm confused...

to move, the rules say "Roll both dice at the same time. Add the two numbers and move your player piece to the area card of the same number."

(shouldn't the board be numbered then?)

In any case, there are only six "area card" spaces, and only six possible places to move? Why so I roll two dice for this? doesn't it make rolling a 1 impossible? why not just roll the six-sided die?

What am I missing here?

Thread: Charles Q

Revelade — 2008-11-18T08:58:41+00:00

Can charles use his ability more than once per turn?

Thread: Re: Sometimes a sloppy reading of the rules adds an interesting element...

locusshifter — 2008-11-14T18:06:56+00:00

Here's the thing on Hunters:

It's really down to people not being afraid to reveal themselves so they can use their powers; then their allies can know more easily who to help and/or use their powers.

People tend to be afraid of revealing their identity, and truly it's all about the timing of it; still, Zev was shocked when we were half way through a game with no characters revealed at all.

Thread: Re: Sometimes a sloppy reading of the rules adds an interesting element...

HiveGod — 2008-11-14T18:01:13+00:00

We had a similar experience with Arkham Horror where we neglected to remove monsters with like symbols when we closed a gate and played monsters in the sky wrong -- we had all monsters in the sky swoop down on anyone ending their move in the streets. Playing by the real rules was much, much easier. Easy to the point of boredom for us. (At least until the expansions started coming out!)

Thread: Re: Sometimes a sloppy reading of the rules adds an interesting element...

tempus42 — 2008-11-14T17:42:35+00:00

Just an anecdote, apropos of nothing: A friend of mine played Hamburgum for the first time at last year's bgg.con and said it was the hit of the con for him. On his recommendation, I bought it. When we played it for the first time together at my house, he realized he had played a fairly significant rule incorrectly. (Unfortunately, I forget what the misunderstanding was now.) Playing it correctly (as far as we could tell), we both disliked the game.

I'm not sure what the moral is, but I would suggest that you remember exactly what rules you played wrong, because the serendipity may be something you want to re-achieve someday...

Thread: Sometimes a sloppy reading of the rules adds an interesting element...

HiveGod — 2008-11-14T17:28:03+00:00

Got this for my birthday (thanks, Torin!) and set it loose on my RPG group last night. It was a perfect fit & absolute hit. We did, however, play it wrong...

We stupidly assumed that you needed a weapon (or ability) to attack. This probably made the three games we played much longer than they would have been otherwise, and it did lead to one player being frustrated for most of one of those games. On the other hand, it made us fight over the weapons that were out and use them with impunity once we had them.

We also screwed up the Hermit Cards -- we played that the person drawing one had to satisfy the conditions (if possible) before passing it off. This actually turned out to be the interesting element... it tended to give both parties some information about each other, rather than just being a one-way deal.

Even played wrong, the game is great and will take its place as a standard fixture in future gamedays & nights. If it was so good wrong, I can't wait to play it correctly!

Thread: Re: numbers in the 4 side dice (pyramid)

Duc de Masons — 2008-11-13T12:55:39+00:00

I was puzzled by that, too. It seems the dice has been replaced in the recent editions of the game, but the rules have not been updated. I did some research and came to the conclusion that you count the numbers in the uppermost point of the triangle.

Thread: Re: Is saying "nothing happens" a choice in some cards?

locusshifter — 2008-11-10T18:41:54+00:00

If the hermit card does not apply to you you say "Nothing Happens" and discard it face down.

Thread: Is saying "nothing happens" a choice in some cards?

Revelade — 2008-11-10T18:28:46+00:00

I read over one thread about "must either" being a choice or a mandatory condition.

However, in the case of,

"If you are a hunter, discard an equipment card or take 1 damage."

Does that mean non-hunters who get this have nothing happen to them? Or would they take 1 damage?

Does it also mean that if you are a hunter you have a choice of discarding an equipment OR taking 1 damage yes?

Thread: Re: First Plays and Impressions

Jim Marshall — 2008-11-04T00:52:34+00:00

Some quick just-before-I-hit-the-sack thoughts...

I've played 10 games of this now (I think), and it's gone down very well with everyone I've played it with. Each time it's been played the players wanted to go again, and a number of players have been in several sessions.

I think it's at its best with 7 or 8 players. Yes there is luck, although it often evens out over the game (it's a team game, so individual luck comes into it less than purely individual games using dice).

The dark characters seem to have the best special abilities at first, but I think it's hard for them to win as they tend to be victimised when their identities are revealed.

The Hunters are relatively easy to pay. Stay hidden until the Shadows are known, then hit them with Franklin and George's special attacks. Daniel often becomes a 4th hunter, which can give them an edge over the Shadow team.

When playing for either of the 'teams' (Shadow or Hunter), I find it best to concentrate on one member of the opposing team and take them down. More than anything your team having more turns in a round counts, so if you can take out one or two of the opposing team's characters it will reduce their effectiveness dramatically. Just be careful Charles doesn't creep up on the inside for the win while your back's turned...

The neutrals (especially Charles the psycho and 'death-wish' Daniel) are perhaps the most fun to play. They need to keep their identities hidden for as long as possible, to avoid being killed (Charles) and not being allowed to die (Daniel)!

Best of luck if you draw Allie - Mother's Love often isn't enough to save you when you're revealed (as you often are early in the game) as killing you prevents a Daniel win while (not being on a team) you have no real friends. Hope that others are revealed first or a Shadow/Hunter turf war erupts early on.

Werewolf or Shadow Hunters? I'll happily play either. With 8 or less Shadow Hunters, with 9 or more Werewolf. I think there's probably a bit more 'game' to Shadow Hunters, Werewolf being solely about negotiaton and bluffing (to me at least). Both good games, and in the genre probably preferable to Bang IMHO. Saboteur's fun too, though.

Thread: Re: FAQ/ERRATA

Alexfrog — 2008-11-02T19:54:37+00:00

That First Aid ruling is probably the dumbest game ruling Ive ever heard, no way am I going to follow that. (Not blaming Zman, since that was what he was told).

Thread: Re: FAQ/ERRATA

dramstud — 2008-11-02T07:04:08+00:00

I have to say I'm disappointed by the "official" ruling on the first aid card. I was "Unknown" in a game today and the first aid was used to deal great damage to me early on (unless we misinterpreted, the card MUST be used; throwing it away (due to not knowing who should be attacked) is not an option). After that, the Shadow team was dominated pretty easily. I would think this sort of scenario would have come up in playtesting.

It would be great to hear directly from the designer on this one. It just seems really counter-intuitive to me to allow a "first-aid kit" to deal 7 points of damage.

Thread: Re: Quicker than Bang!

Karmic_devil — 2008-10-28T06:30:06+00:00

Tygo wrote:
I'm taking my freshly delivered copy to Games Fest South this weekend, so I should have a good report back next week on how it does with lots of people.

. . . and he was never heard from again.

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Davestar2 — 2008-10-27T08:28:23+00:00

ready to play!

Thread: Re: werewolf counter attack vs. pistol

Lou-Dawg — 2008-10-23T00:35:14+00:00

Official FAQ:
http://bgame.jp/english/sh/faq.html

Q06. When "werewolf" is attacked by the character who has the black card "handgun(equipment)", can he use his special ability "counterattack"?
A06. Yes.
"Counterattack" is a special ability to "attack who came attacking you" and therefore can be used regardless of the range. Likewise, "counterattack" can be used when "werewolf" has a "handgun".

Q07. A "werewolf" who has the black card "machine gun(equipment)" has used his special ability "counterattack". In this case, when there is another character in the same range, does he get the same attack together due to the effect of "machine gun"?
A07. No.
Because "counterattack" is a special ability to "attack who came attacking you", you can only attack who came attacking you even if you have a "machine gun".

Enjoy the broken engrish in the FAQ.

Thread: Re: Bob's win condition is a misprint

Lou-Dawg — 2008-10-23T00:31:01+00:00

UPDATE: This misprint has been confirmed by Zev directly through the publisher.

Thread: Re: FAQ/ERRATA

Lou-Dawg — 2008-10-23T00:25:50+00:00

Basically the answers emailed to Zev are how my group plays already. Allie does not need any help to win this game. Allie wins probably 80% to 90% of the time.

So if you are dealt Allie, be happy in knowing that you A) probably will win and B) use your healing power before you get attacked.

Thread: Re: werewolf counter attack vs. pistol

ekted — 2008-10-22T16:12:33+00:00

Where is the official FAQ?

Thread: Re: FAQ/ERRATA

Nessmk2 — 2008-10-21T18:51:24+00:00

I see doing damage with the First Aid kit like this: it likely has scissors in it (for cutting bandages/gauze), so if you opt to do damage with the kit, your character stabs your target with the scissors.

Or bashing them with the box, or ODing them on painkillers... there's a lot of in-theme things you can say.
As for the 'gamey' ness of Allie? You just say that you have a small pause before you attack. I mean, it's just being nice. You do it on a case-by-case basis. If someone rushes and purposefully goes "I move and nowI'mgonnaattack" to try to bypass that, then you call them on it. Likewise, if Allie has enough time to heal and then doesn't, you call her on that. Games shouldn't have to rule-in nice manners and the like. I mean, the game never says that you can't physically steal another person's cards, but you assume you can't, right? I guess I just assmed that a small pause between moves was normal.

Thread: Re: werewolf counter attack vs. pistol

Nessmk2 — 2008-10-21T18:43:04+00:00

I'm pretty sure that the weapons (minus guns) have effect. The entire 'no machine gun' thing is there, I imagine, to stop an uber-powerful combo where someone purposefully attacks the werewolf so the WW gets a hit-everyone counter.

Thread: Re: Board Mod to reduce the "random" move factor...

Nessmk2 — 2008-10-21T18:39:21+00:00

So you roll to move as normal, but can hit a total of 3 areas? Cool, that works.

Thread: Re: Healing Kit

Nessmk2 — 2008-10-19T03:03:15+00:00

We play as written too. We say you either inject the guy with something nasty in the kit (like an overdose of painkillers) or whack 'em over the head with the thing. It has to be pretty heavy...

Thread: Re: Use of Special Powers

Nessmk2 — 2008-10-19T03:01:11+00:00

Definately what the above 2 posters said. The werewolf and Vampire would be severely underpowered if their abilities only worked once. Emi would be useless.

Also, for George, Allie and Franklin, I do believe you can activate your ability anytime AFTER you are revealed... though this happens extremely rarely. The only times you see it happen is to use the Spear and perhaps to stop someone else on your team from offing you.

Thread: Re: Shadow Hunters - "A Gamer's Bang+Werewolf" 9/10

Nessmk2 — 2008-10-19T02:58:35+00:00

Quick question. You roll a D4 and a D6 when attacking, right?

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Grimwold — 2008-10-18T17:45:31+00:00

Box Dimensions - 30.9cm x 22.5cm x 4.4cm

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Grimwold — 2008-10-16T11:09:07+00:00

Character Death Zones... Hit Points 8 through 14

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Grimwold — 2008-10-15T20:27:27+00:00

The 8 Shadow Hunter Characters meet at the start of the game

Thread: Re: werewolf counter attack vs. pistol

kounabi22 — 2008-10-11T22:00:30+00:00

i think counter attack is a special ability so you cant benefit from the equipments.the equipments can be used when you attack!not counter attack.

you cant counter attack all players when you have tommy gun
or only ranged character if you have the gun
or roll a 4 die if you have the masasume sword
or do plus dmg via chainsaw or other weapons that give extra dmg in attack

Thread: Re: Cursed Sword Masamune

kounabi22 — 2008-10-06T13:45:12+00:00

of course you must attack if someone is in your area,and if you have the gun then you must attack if someone is in the other areas except your area.

Thread: Re: Cursed Sword Masamune

opticode — 2008-10-04T20:06:55+00:00

That is how I understand it, and how we played it last night.

Thread: Cursed Sword Masamune

m_r_tyler — 2008-10-04T18:59:29+00:00

The card says "You must attack another character on your turn."

I assume if no character is within range, the sword has no effect. Correct?

Thread: Re: First Plays and Impressions

Luthien — 2008-10-02T02:22:06+00:00

bwt2q wrote:

Game 3 I was the Unknown again. Everyone started attacking early, with a great deal of damage done before any Green cards were drawn. One player was ganged up on, almost arbitrarily. When he died, he turned out to be Daniel, the player who wins if he dies first. Game over.

Haha... yep, played this game for the first time Saturday. And, interestingly enough, that is exactly what happened in our 1st game. I was Emi that game as well and had revealed and was kicking glass!

Second game I was George, and we ended up winning as well.

That was our initial impression as well, a cross between WW and Bang. This game can be improved upon for sure. I still enjoyed it though. But, I was very disappointed with the green cards. I felt like within the first 2 turns no one needed the green cards anymore. I liked that deduction mechanic, but, they just didn't seem to come out a lot. Too bad. Of course, that's the WW'r in me!

In our games everyone just came out blazing regardless of who you were or were not. I guess everyone figured there was no incentive not to come out blazing.

Thread: Re: First Plays and Impressions

MikeyMike79 — 2008-09-30T21:20:04+00:00

Plus, you can play 2 or 3 games of Shadow Hunters in the time it take to play Werewolf. Having said that, Werewolf is a deeper game, but Shadow Hunters is great for what it is..

Thread: Re: First Plays and Impressions

Nessmk2 — 2008-09-30T18:06:34+00:00

I've played this game with my group going on ten times now, and we all happen to love it. We personally find the combat aspect refreshing because everyone is important and anyone can make a difference. One of the major complaints a lot of people I play werewolf with has is that if you are a 'normal' villager, you can't do a thing unless other people listen to you.
While there is luck in the game, I think it adds a lot. One fully-outfitted character has at least SOME chance against the others, even if they are the only member of their team left. The cards ensure that no game is the same twice, and the random movement means that there can't be a 'discover and instantly kill' thing going on through most of the game. The neutrals add a lot to the game, with their varied winning conditions, especially Charles and Daniel. Daniel stops the game from devolving into a mass melee, as does the thought that Charles MIGHT be in the game. It's amazing how much fear these two characters can inspire by their mere presence, and how it makes everyone think before they act.

Accusations fly, blades are drawn, blood is shed, and a good time is had by all.

Thread: Re: Player Piece Color Issue

Lardarse — 2008-09-30T00:41:29+00:00

Yeah, it is horrible. In the first game we played tonight (7 players, 1 showed up just as we were about to start), the 7th player used the red player card but the pink pieces. Was slightly confusing, but a number of people have commented on the colours. Red is the main one that I would just want to paint, but as it's not mine, and I don't carry my paints with me.

Orange seems to be the hardest colour to use, which is why a lot of things use purple before orange (you may want to google the Munsell colour system). Orange is in a bit of a no mans land between red and yellow - you're either too close to one or too close to the other.

One game I played at ManorCon (I don't remember the name, but it was a 2-5 player abstract involving coloured disks, and the object of the game was to get 3 in a row) had an orange that was so bad that it was nearly identical to the yellow. After some complaining to the owner of the game (a friend, otherwise I likely wouldn't have argued tso much), she agreed to paint the oranges better, but she suggested we grab a pen and mark the oranges (which was done once we found a pen). The dice was much easier to read (enough so that it doesn't need painting), although it didn't match the exact shades of the disks.

Thread: Re: Shadow Characters Too Strong?

Lardarse — 2008-09-30T00:22:34+00:00

KingPut wrote:
One other thing that balances out the Shadow players ability is if Daniel isn't the 1st player to die he will become a hunter.
More correctly, he wins with the hunters. The cards still see him as neutral; most notably the spear.

Thread: Re: First Aid card

Lardarse — 2008-09-30T00:05:57+00:00

Lou-Dawg wrote:
Used early in the game it can have a devastating effect on Unknown, but no one SHOULD know you are Unknown that early.
Unless they have to show someone their card via the hermit card that does this (as happened in one of the games I played tonight). I then managed to hit him for 5 which was pretty good.

The group that I started going to again last week likes this game. And yes, they find the first aid kit funny as well. I think it's just more fun as written than as fixed, although I did hear a proposal of changing the 7 to a 1.

Thread: Re: Vampire and machine gun

Lardarse — 2008-09-29T23:46:16+00:00

We had this question come up tonight, and we eventually decided that he only heals once. Good to know that someone else agrees with us.

Thread: Re: First Plays and Impressions

baditude — 2008-09-29T20:55:03+00:00

bwt2q wrote:
Daniel, for instance, might provide the counterbalance to random attacking that he is supposed to. But I'd still rather just play Werewolf.

Daniel is the most interesting character for sure. In another thread someone asked if they could use the "Wierd Woods" to damage their own character.

The response was, "sure but than everyone will know you are Daniel and they won't attack you ever". To which I responded, "that sounds like a good strategy than to play when your NOT daniel"

On the other side of the fence for me is the Alli (I think that's her name) neutral. Alli wins by being alive when the game ends. So her role is to basically BOLSTER the side of who ever is winning...tipping the balance to the side who is already stronger. If Daniel is revealed, and the Shadows are already loosing, you've got a situation where it's 4 players to 1 (or maybe 2). :P

-E

Thread: Re: First Plays and Impressions

bwt2q — 2008-09-29T20:39:54+00:00

baditude wrote:
That said, there seems to be something to this game and I'm wondering if experienced players...ones who are more familiar with all the characters...will make this one more worth while.

I will freely admit that my circumstances were non-ideal. The group was all strangers to me, and most of them were new to the game as well. Some picked it up quickly, some did not. The younger players just wanted to roll dice to "see what their new chainsaw/Axe/gun would do", while some of the older players were too conservative because they didn't know what they were supposed to do - or maybe thought they ought to have more control than they did.

If you had an experienced group to play this who all knew each other, I think it would be a more satisfying experience - Daniel, for instance, might provide the counterbalance to random attacking that he is supposed to. But I'd still rather just play Werewolf.

Thread: Re: First Plays and Impressions

baditude — 2008-09-29T20:23:36+00:00

I've played Shadow Hunters a few times and had fun each time but my doubts about the game still lingered and I think this review echos my own fears about this one.

It's a good concept and there's something fun underneath it all...but it seems like it might take what's fun about Werewolf and obscures it with aspects that don't actually add much to the experience.

That said, there seems to be something to this game and I'm wondering if experienced players...ones who are more familiar with all the characters...will make this one more worth while.

-E

Thread: Re: First Plays and Impressions

TimMierz — 2008-09-29T20:16:27+00:00

That's interesting to hear. I like Bang! but wish there were more role deduction than "Person X did/didn't shoot the Sheriff"; my initial views of Shadow Hunter made me think that it would be a much better variation on the theme allowing more deduction. It's sad that it seems to come down to chance and there's so little deduction; I was considering going for it at some point down the line.

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Scout762 — 2008-09-21T12:04:00+00:00

Board Mod, Large.jpg

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Rainforhar — 2008-09-15T09:36:48+00:00

Vampire Card

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Rainforhar — 2008-09-15T09:35:09+00:00

Franklin Card

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Rainforhar — 2008-09-15T09:34:02+00:00

Allie Card

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silvanus321 — 2008-09-07T19:09:47+00:00

Cards about revealing identity

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silvanus321 — 2008-09-07T19:03:07+00:00

Shadow characters