Game: Greentown

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

GeoMan — 2008-11-10T01:13:04+00:00

If you use the variant you may hold the 2X marker if you wish. Without the variant you must pass it to your righthand player.

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

Sprydle — 2008-11-09T07:02:28+00:00

GeoMan wrote:

Now the round is over and George can use his 2x marker to start the next round.

Wait, so this is optional? I thought from reading the above that George must use the 2X marker to start the next round.

We were playing this wrong last night, and I thought I understood it after reading the designer's posts above, but, if you're not using the variant, it sounds like you *must* use the 2X, passing it to the right?

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duchamp — 2008-05-10T18:58:00+00:00

The bits each player starts with

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duchamp — 2008-05-10T18:57:25+00:00

All visitors` cards determining the tours

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duchamp — 2008-05-10T18:56:44+00:00

All components - much stuff for a small publisher!

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duchamp — 2008-05-10T18:54:04+00:00

Suggested setup according to the rules

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duchamp — 2008-05-10T18:53:33+00:00

All tiles in the game, with 2 - 6 connections. The different types with 3 or 4 marked with cow, tree or flower

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duchamp — 2008-05-10T18:51:38+00:00

Box back

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duchamp — 2008-05-10T18:51:16+00:00

Actual box cover (not the pure graphics)

Thread: Bored Tourists and Interested Gamers

Orthodork — 2008-03-14T04:54:40+00:00

So what is Greentown?
Greentown is a pleasant little game about planning bus routes for tourists. Players lay tiles and build buildings which tourists visit on their bus tours. Players are paid money when tourists visit buildings that they own. Since players can exercise a certain amount of control over the routes by placing tiles, the object of the game is ultimately to build routes that force other players to pass by buildings you own, while being able to pass by your own buildings when you lead a tour. In addition to all of that, tourists will want to see certain things on their tours.

These things are dictated by some cards, which dictate the length of the routes as well. As the game progresses, the routes grow longer.

If the tourists don't see everything they want to, you'll lose money. Losing money is bad. The winner is the person who has the most money at the end of the game.

What's fun about it?
Lots of things, depending on what you like in a game. The opportunity to watch someone else sweat as they attempt to plan a profitable route, only to discover at some point they are going to pay you money if they want to visit a 'Nature'' site (represented by trees) is quite delightful. The strategic replacement of tiles to give yourself the most profitable routes later in the game.

What's not to like?
It's thinky, and probably more than it lets on. I've seen comparisons to 'route planning in 18xx'. Since I've never played any 18xx games, I don't know if that's true, but I hear 18xx games are not noted for their lightweight nature. If you don't like brain melty games, this isn't the one that's going to change your mind about them.

It's tough to recover from a disadvantaged position-- early bad placement, or placement of buildings in areas which only you are going to be interested in visiting means you're going to be last, and there isn't much you can do about it.

I'm a total bits junkie! What are they like?
Serviceable. The tile art is whimsical and amusing, with cows and flowers and things. The buildings are wooden cubes, discs and houses. The cards and other components are in German, but they are single words, and you'll remember what "Bauen" and "Reisen" are after a minute or two. This is a limited edition game, and the rules are a simple xerox.

What do you think of it? Will I like it?
I like it a great deal. It's surface charms give way to a game of surprising depth and strategy. There's a lot of possibility at the beginning of the game, and it packs a lot of thinking into roughly an hour. It's not a nice game, despite the pleasant pastoral feel of the tiles. You're attempting to screw other people out of profitable routes while getting them to help you make money. If you don't like that sort of game, then Greentown isn't for you. It's also not a great game to play with people who suffer from analysis paralysis; there's a constant nagging feeling that you somehow 'could have' made another buck by planning something better-- it may be true, but you'll die of old age waiting for someone to take a turn.

Greentown is a pleasant surprise, a light goofy theme fronting a solid, thoughtful design with plenty of open-ended possibility with each play. There are even alternate 'set ups' for you to try if you feel the initial one is becoming played out. Each group of people I have taught it to seemed to have enjoyed it as well. A real gem.

Thread: Re: Any experience with two players?

Orthodork — 2008-03-14T01:10:12+00:00

Well, I ended up giving it a shot; it ends up being quite a different game, more about optimizing and less about getting people to use your buildings-- though that's still there. As in more player, trees are cruicial to victory. It's better with 3, for sure.

Thread: Re: Any experience with two players?

clearclaw — 2008-01-22T21:11:13+00:00

I've played many 3 and 4 player games. I like 3 slightly better than 4 but have not tries the 2 player variant.

Thread: Any experience with two players?

Orthodork — 2008-01-22T20:58:57+00:00

Has anyone tried a two player game? I've played only once, with a group of four, and was wondering if the two player version in the rules was somehow unbalanced/odd.

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

GeoMan — 2007-11-21T18:22:50+00:00

clearclaw wrote:
Which means that in a 4 player game the start player will always have the first action when all their action tiles are face up.

Yes, unless you use the variant that allows the player holding the 2x tile to decide when to play it.

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

clearclaw — 2007-11-21T17:37:14+00:00

Which means that in a 4 player game the start player will always have the first action when all their action tiles are face up.

Thread: Re: Ends, length, loss of VPs or income, and partial tours

clearclaw — 2007-11-21T17:35:47+00:00

Thanks.

Thread: Re: GreenTown cards

GeoMan — 2007-11-21T10:52:51+00:00

clearclaw wrote:
I suspect that some of the disquiet over the game is that while Greentown allows for and even rewards considerable analysis, the short length of the game (not many actions) combined with the large effect of the order of the tour cards (which is mostly random) is disconcerting: a game which suggests deep thought but has a large random element.

The top card of the deck is always face-up so you know what to expect when you fulfill your current tour card.

But you can always play with the first 3 cards visible for example, as a variant.

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

GeoMan — 2007-11-21T10:43:23+00:00

No...

1) I'm the first player in a three player game. To my left is Bubba and to my right is George.

2) George starts with the 2X marker.

3) I do an action, Bubba does an action, George does an action.

Now the round is over and George can use his 2x marker to start the next round. He gives his 2x marker to Bubba and plays the first turn of the new round.

The 2x marker doesn't mean that a player gets more turns - he simply ends the previous turn and immediately starts the next turn.

Thread: Re: Ends, length, loss of VPs or income, and partial tours

GeoMan — 2007-11-21T10:35:35+00:00

1. It can end at the same or different hotels.

2. Passing from a hotel always counts as a stop. So if you pass again from the same hotel (using another road) it counts as another stop. You don't count the starting hotel but you count the ending hotel, so in your example you can't pass through three buildings and two trees in a 5 stop tour (the hotel at the end of your tour counts as a 6th stop).

3. You must make the exact number of stops. For each category that you don't fulfill you lose a Greenie, and players don't get Greenies in that case if you pass in front of their buildings:

e.x. you have to visit 1-2 Sporting centers. If you pass from 0 or from 3 or more Sporting centers you lose this category, you lose a Greenie and no player gets Greenies if you passed in front of their Sporting Centers.

You are not forced to fulfill each category - even if there is a way to pass in front of the required buildings you may choose a different path and lose the category (so you don't give more money to others).

4. If you fulfill the specific category (e.x. Shopping centers) the others also gain 1 Greenie for each of their specific buildings that you visit (note that if you pass twice from the same building they only get paid once and you can't use the same road twice even in the opposite direction).

Thread: Ends, length, loss of VPs or income, and partial tours

clearclaw — 2007-11-21T08:19:57+00:00

1) Does a tour have to begin and end at different hotels or can it begin and end at the same hotel?

2) Can a hotel count as one of the stops along a tour? Must a hotel count as one of the stops along a tour? Can I make a five tour which goes through three buildings and two trees before it reaches the other hotel?

3) If a player can't make the full set for a tour, does he lose Greenies from his income for the partial tour, or does he get nothing for the partial tour and lose Greenies that he gained from previous tours? ie Can a player lose VPs that they earned on previous turns?

4) Do other players earn Greenies if a partial tour passes through their buildings?

Thread: Re: GreenTown cards

clearclaw — 2007-11-21T07:48:19+00:00

GeoMan wrote:
I think that the problem is that the English rules aren't very clear (as someone else also mentioned in his ratings) and possibly some people play it wrong.

I suspect that some of the disquiet over the game is that while Greentown allows for and even rewards considerable analysis, the short length of the game (not many actions) combined with the large effect of the order of the tour cards (which is mostly random) is disconcerting: a game which suggests deep thought but has a large random element.

We played a 3 player game for the first time tonight. All enjoyed it.

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

clearclaw — 2007-11-21T07:37:22+00:00

Just to make this brutally clear:

1) I'm the first player in a three player game. To my left is Bubba and to my right is George.

2) George starts with the 2X marker.

3) I do an action, Bubba does an action, George does an action.

4) I do an action, Bubba does an action, George does an action.

5) I do an action, Bubba does an action, George does an action.

6) I do my last action, Bubba does his last action, George does his last action.

7) George gives the 2X marker to Bubb.

8) George does an action, I do an action, Bubba does an action.

...etc

9) George does his last action, I do my last action, Bubba does his last action.

10) George gives the 2X marker to Bubba.

11) Bubba does an action...etc

Thread: Re: Mini Review: GreentownXX A Pleasant Surprise

acetate3 — 2007-07-18T11:52:01+00:00

Hi Geo,

Just checked out the card files today... they are great! Thanks again for uploading them.

Cheers,

Simon

Thread: Re: Mini Review: GreentownXX A Pleasant Surprise

GeoMan — 2007-07-08T22:17:46+00:00

acetate3 wrote:
Hi GeoMan,

I would love to use your new English cards to help out with teaching the game. Would you be able to upload the set?

Thanks,

Simon

I uploaded the Illustrator files and a Player Aid. I guess that they will be available in a couple of days.

Thread: Re: Mini Review: GreentownXX A Pleasant Surprise

acetate3 — 2007-07-08T17:34:42+00:00

Hi GeoMan,

I would love to use your new English cards to help out with teaching the game. Would you be able to upload the set?

Thanks,

Simon

Thread: Re: Replacing tiles with buildings/trees clarification

Guenter.Cornett — 2007-07-08T16:12:20+00:00

Yes, that's right.

Thread: Replacing tiles with buildings/trees clarification

GeoMan — 2007-07-08T15:35:01+00:00

The English rules say that when you replace a tile containing an opponent's building, you can't cut off any of its existing paths.

If the building is yours or if there is a tree i assume that you are allowed to cut off a max of one path. Am i right?

Thread: Re: GreenTown cards

GeoMan — 2007-07-07T21:26:05+00:00

Guenter.Cornett wrote:
I see most gamers rate it 7 but same number rate it 4 or less.

I think that the problem is that the English rules aren't very clear (as someone else also mentioned in his ratings) and possibly some people play it wrong.

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

Guenter.Cornett — 2007-07-07T21:25:50+00:00

GeoMan wrote:

The way the English rules are written it is easy to assume that a round ends when all players use all their markers, so each player plays 4 times. Now it is clear!

Ah, I see what you mean. Although there is correct described what a round is ('after four rounds all of the action markers ...') the order of the sentences may irritate by reading. What happend last in a round is described after four rounds finished.

'After four rounds ...' should have been written a bit later. It's my fault. I wrote that in the German rules.

Thread: Re: GreenTown cards

Guenter.Cornett — 2007-07-07T21:19:38+00:00

Thanks for kind words. I see most gamers rate it 7 but same number rate it 4 or less. It's not a game for everybody, but I'm happy that it has a target group who like it much. My own recommendation is: try it before buy it.

I'm not sure about reference to 18xx, because the system is different. But of course it's influenced by that great games.

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

GeoMan — 2007-07-07T21:09:13+00:00

Guenter.Cornett wrote:
No, the last player does it after his first turn.
The last player in the first round becomes the first player in the second round. The last player in the second round becomes the first player in the third round a.s.o.

Aha! Now it is clear! Thanks!

Guenter.Cornett wrote:
upps, this is wrong: a round ends if each player had done 1 turn.

The way the English rules are written it is easy to assume that a round ends when all players use all their markers, so each player plays 4 times. Now it is clear!

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

Guenter.Cornett — 2007-07-07T21:07:07+00:00

Guenter.Cornett wrote:
Hi Geoman,

thanks for request,

GeoMan wrote:
How the last player with the 2x Turn Marker can use it?

Flip it and repeat his just played Marker?

no

GeoMan wrote:

Choose another of his still unused Markers?

yes

GeoMan wrote:

What if 2X is his last marker remaining face up?

If all four markers are face down you turn all markers face up.
So he has free choice.

Note: if his last action marker is 'Bauen und Reisen' he can use it two times ( = 4 turns at one time: Building - Guiding - Building - Guiding)

The double turn marker only shows the end of a round (each player has done his 4 / 8 turns):

upps, this is wrong: a round ends if each player had done 1 turn. Sorry. I described a special situation (using 'Bauen und reisen' two times) what is only possible after 4/8 rounds. But it's not true as general rule.

Guenter.Cornett wrote:

If it's the turn of the player with the double turn marker, he
1. does his turn (ending a round)
2. gives the double turn marker to the right neighbour
3. he does his turn (starting a round)

This is correct.

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

Guenter.Cornett — 2007-07-07T20:58:30+00:00

GeoMan wrote:
Thanks for the info. Still it is not very clear from the English rules how the "2x Marker" is used.

If i understand it correctly the "2x Marker" is in reality a "Start Player" marker:

When you execute your last (4th) action, you pass the "2x Marker" to your right-hand player and you start the next round. So in practice you play two times in a row. Right? That's the only use of the "2x Marker"?

No, the last player does it after his first turn.
The last player in the first round becomes the first player in the second round. The last player in the second round becomes the first player in the third round a.s.o.

GeoMan wrote:

or

Can you use the "2x Marker" at any other time to play twice during your turn?

In standard rule you must use it, but in the variant the last player has the choice if he want to use it or save it for a later turn of him.

GeoMan wrote:

For example: The game starts, 1st player chooses his action, 2nd player chooses his action, 3rd player chooses his action, and now it is my turn and i have the "2x Marker". Can i play twice immediately using the "2x Marker"? If so what happens then? How the round proceeds and who is the starting player for the next round?

Using the "2x marker" = starting the next round.
The player using this marker has not more turns than other players;
he just changes from the last position to the position.

I guess in general free choice to change the position or not is a good rule for changing start player (especially if there is an advantage for start player).
But for Greentown it's not so good, because it increases the time to think. I came to this conclusion after printing the tiles but before writing the rules. So I mentioned it just as a variant.

Thread: Re: Mini Review: GreentownXX A Pleasant Surprise

GeoMan — 2007-07-07T19:08:18+00:00

JasonMatthews wrote:
I am concerned about replayability without lots of new setups and cards.

I redesigned the cards in Illustrator CS2 (and changed the few German words into English) so it is very easy to create new cards.

If people need my Illustrator files for editing, let me know and i'll upload them here.

NOTE: You need a program that reads Illustrator files to edit these.

Thread: Re: GreenTown cards

GeoMan — 2007-07-07T18:55:59+00:00

Guenter.Cornett wrote:
Moreover I allow to contradict a little bit: Bambus is/was know for 'individual' handmade versions.

The Arabana-Ikibiti-story is a legend:
1997: The people waited line up at our booth when we arrived at 10.30 Uhr at the fair (Morning? - never heard before this vocable). The cards where black copies on blue paper ('please cut your self'). The people got individual material: too big sticks of color they wished, markers of glass or wood. We had a well done graphic but a very simple production. As beeing game designer I just sold the immaterial game with a bit stuff around I just picked up from other games I just buyed at the second hand market in Essen (Wolfgang Kramers Erdgas was sold out there).

I don't own Arabana-Ikibiti so my judgment is based on games like Flaschenteufel, Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, Chinagold with its nice roll-up board and Autoscooter with the nice wooden cars.

Guenter.Cornett wrote:
In this case I couldn't do more than send you the files.

Thanks a lot. I am really grateful that you sent me the files as i'll be able to create some nice looking and sturdy cards.

Guenter.Cornett wrote:
Hope you'll have good fun with Greentown.

It is a very good game and highly recommended to those who like shorter 18xx variants.

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

GeoMan — 2007-07-07T18:37:41+00:00

Thanks for the info. Still it is not very clear from the English rules how the "2x Marker" is used.

If i understand it correctly the "2x Marker" is in reality a "Start Player" marker:

When you execute your last (4th) action, you pass the "2x Marker" to your right-hand player and you start the next round. So in practice you play two times in a row. Right? That's the only use of the "2x Marker"?

or

Can you use the "2x Marker" at any other time to play twice during your turn?

For example: The game starts, 1st player chooses his action, 2nd player chooses his action, 3rd player chooses his action, and now it is my turn and i have the "2x Marker". Can i play twice immediately using the "2x Marker"? If so what happens then? How the round proceeds and who is the starting player for the next round?

Thread: Re: 2x Turn Marker use?

Guenter.Cornett — 2007-07-07T10:47:53+00:00

Hi Geoman,

thanks for request,

GeoMan wrote:
How the last player with the 2x Turn Marker can use it?

Flip it and repeat his just played Marker?

no

GeoMan wrote:

Choose another of his still unused Markers?

yes

GeoMan wrote:

What if 2X is his last marker remaining face up?

If all four markers are face down you turn all markers face up.
So he has free choice.

Note: if his last action marker is 'Bauen und Reisen' he can use it two times ( = 4 turns at one time: Building - Guiding - Building - Guiding)

The double turn marker only shows the end of a round (each player has done ~~his 4 / 8 turns~~ same number of turns [edited by G.C.] ):

If it's the turn of the player with the double turn marker, he
1. does his turn (ending a round)
2. gives the double turn marker to the right neighbour
3. he does his turn (starting a round)

There is a variant, that allows to use the double turn marker or not. Therefor it's called double turn marker and not start player marker.

This variant was official rule, but the people thought long about to use it or not. So I changed this rule after printing the pieces.

best, Guenter

Thread: Re: GreenTown cards

Guenter.Cornett — 2007-07-07T10:34:25+00:00

GeoMan wrote:
If you buy GreenTown from an online shop, you don't know which version you are going to get.

So if you get one of the numbered copies between 351 and 400 (2nd edition),

Hi Geoman,

you're right. If it's important to you, you should ask before, which number you'll get. But, of course, a customer first has to know that he has to ask ...

GeoMan wrote:

You will discover that the 16 cards in the game are not only "a bit lower quality" as described in the Bambusspiele site, but they are printed on plain paper

it's 160g paper. It's a bit thinner than in the first 350 games (I guess something between 200g and 240g - three stacks of the thin paper cards are higher than two stacks of the thick paper cards). I'm sure you would have been disappointed from the material of the thick cards, too.

GeoMan wrote:

on a cheap printer (they look more like photocopies)

both were photocopies, different copyshops.
I get a big discount if I print at least 275. Printing 50 copies costs more than double price each.
The other copyshop prints small runs for low price but cannot take thick paper.

GeoMan wrote:

and are very badly cut...

That's me, sorry.

GeoMan wrote:

Not what i expected from Bambusspiele...

Thanks for confidence and sorry that I 'm not worth this 100%.
My handmade versions always depend from my two left hands

Moreover I allow to contradict a little bit: Bambus is/was know for 'individual' handmade versions.

The Arabana-Ikibiti-story is a legend:
1997: The people waited line up at our booth when we arrived at 10.30 Uhr at the fair (Morning? - never heard before this vocable). The cards where black copies on blue paper ('please cut your self'). The people got individual material: too big sticks of color they wished, markers of glass or wood. We had a well done graphic but a very simple production. As beeing game designer I just sold the immaterial game with a bit stuff around I just picked up from other games I just buyed at the second hand market in Essen (Wolfgang Kramers Erdgas was sold out there).

But of course later Volker Schaefer joined Bambus and gamers who know Bambus only later than 2000 don't knew such stories. I never want to go back to the time before Volker, but sometimes things happen ...

In this case I couldn't do more than send you the files.
Hope you'll have good fun with Greentown.

best, Guenter

Image

GeoMan — 2007-07-07T01:41:08+00:00

Image

GeoMan — 2007-07-07T01:38:33+00:00

Culture and Shopping Center (and Tree)

Image

GeoMan — 2007-07-07T01:36:42+00:00

Tour starts at the Hotel

Thread: 2x Turn Marker use?

GeoMan — 2007-07-06T16:42:03+00:00

How the last player with the 2x Turn Marker can use it?

Flip it and repeat his just played Marker?

Choose another of his still unused Markers?

What if 2X is his last marker remaining face up?

Thread: GreenTown cards

GeoMan — 2007-07-04T20:26:04+00:00

If you buy GreenTown from an online shop, you don't know which version you are going to get.

So if you get one of the numbered copies between 351 and 400 (2nd edition), you will discover that the 16 cards in the game are not only "a bit lower quality" as described in the Bambusspiele site, but they are printed on plain paper on a cheap printer (they look more like photocopies) and are very badly cut...

Not what i expected from Bambusspiele...

So i made new cards that match the game graphics and uploaded them here as hires pdf files. Print them out on heavier cardstock or labels, put them in sleeves (they fit Yu-Gi-Oh sleeves if printed without any scaling) and replace the paper "cards" from the game.

Thread: Re: Leading a tour rules check

garyj — 2006-12-27T19:55:37+00:00

Thanks very much for the clarification, and for the quick reply!

Gary

Thread: Re: Leading a tour rules check

Guenter.Cornett — 2006-12-27T13:47:44+00:00

Hi, thanks for request.

garyj wrote:
The rules seem reasonably clear on leading a tour, but I wanted to check on some interpretations.

1. If you just have a Tour token left then you must play it? Even if most of the points might go to the other players - ie there is no pass action (seems clear but wanted to check).

Yes, that's right.
I presume that there is always a possible way to go the demanded numbers of stations.

garyj wrote:

2. There is an explicit mention of a situation where you can't reach the minimum of a type and take a penalty. Can you deliberately do this even if a complete route would be possible - eg to avoid paying an opponent 2 greenies by taking a minus 1 yourself?

Yes, this can be a tactic, especially if you see yourself in the second range and you would give the leader more points. But this is very rare situation because you loose a oint if you don't reach the minimum.

garyj wrote:

3. As a corollary to 2, even if you had an alternative to choosing a Tour token for your turn can you still choose a Tour and run it incompletely? (not sure why you would want to do this particularly..) ie the selction of the token is independent of the actions that derive from it.

The number of stops at the top of the card is demanded. The player has no choice to make more or less steps.
But he is allowed to do a bad job, f.e miss all trees and get minus point for not fullfilling a wish. Maybe it's more lucrative for him to do so than to give points to his opponents.
garyj wrote:

4. While one can fail to meet the minimum for a type and take a penalty there is no corresponding rule for exceeding a maximum. We took that to mean you could never exceed a maximum? (one of the players wanted to take a -1 cost for that type rather give 2 points to an opponent)

The rule is about fullfilling or not fullfilling a wish. The wish includes minimum and maximum. Too much trees, shopping centres, culture or too much sport is as bad as too less. You can exceed the maximum but the consequence is the same as if you don't reach the minimum: instead of Greenies for visiting the site you loose one Greene for not fullfilling a wish.

I didn't thought that this rule could be understood in another way, but it seems that several players did. Sorry.

Günter

Thread: Leading a tour rules check

garyj — 2006-12-26T20:30:03+00:00

The rules seem reasonably clear on leading a tour, but I wanted to check on some interpretations.

1. If you just have a Tour token left then you must play it? Even if most of the points might go to the other players - ie there is no pass action (seems clear but wanted to check).

2. There is an explicit mention of a situation where you can't reach the minimum of a type and take a penalty. Can you deliberately do this even if a complete route would be possible - eg to avoid paying an opponent 2 greenies by taking a minus 1 yourself?

3. As a corollary to 2, even if you had an alternative to choosing a Tour token for your turn can you still choose a Tour and run it incompletely? (not sure why you would want to do this particularly..) ie the selction of the token is independent of the actions that derive from it.

4. While one can fail to meet the minimum for a type and take a penalty there is no corresponding rule for exceeding a maximum. We took that to mean you could never exceed a maximum? (one of the players wanted to take a -1 cost for that type rather give 2 points to an opponent)

Thanks
Gary

Thread: Re: Mini Review: GreentownXX A Pleasant Surprise

Peerchen — 2006-11-01T11:03:39+00:00

I belong to Günters Playtest group, so im naturally a bit biased.
I have to agree with Jason: Its basiccly a train game and it tends towards a riddle sometimes (That was even more true in the prototypes, with cards ranging from 6-9 instead of 5-8).
He planned to give it a train theme and I was surprised that he didnt do it in the end, because I agree with you: As train game, the target audiance would have been clearer. I dont know why he didnt pursuit his original plan - Maybe it was the cute graphics delivered from Ro Sato, maybe it was lack of time in the end (I know he always is lacking time to do what he plans to do )
The low ratings comes in some degree from the two dutch players whoe were wondering, that you couldnt do much. Like the game or not, but that statement is simply wrong. There are tons of ways of screwing the other player, especially in a two-player game. I know that at least one group of people didnt see that you can change tiles, with someone standing on them, so probably that was the problem here as well.

Im not a huge fan of Greentown myself (I think the "Counting the route"-Aspect isnt really the best part of 18xx), but I do appreciate its design. And I do think the target audiance would enjoy the game more then it would see from the ratings here.

Thread: Re: Mini Review: GreentownXX A Pleasant Surprise

lorna — 2006-10-30T15:10:59+00:00

Thanks for the review and good to hear. I think if I present this in the manner you suggested my group will take to the game. I'm glad it's not a total wash as I like the Bambus games generally, huge fan of Kanaloa and China gold.

Thread: Re: Mini Review: GreentownXX A Pleasant Surprise

RDewsbery — 2006-10-30T14:35:02+00:00

If his stated aim was to make a game which captures the essence of 18xx route claculations (and particularly games like 1830, where routes are rarely linear), he's succeeded admirably.

Me, I hate the whole "explosion in a spaghetti factory" that 1830 usually becomes, and particularly loathe trying to make routes out of the results, so I passed on Greentown very, very quickly.

The only point of interest (because frankly the game itslef is of no interest to me) is that this Essen say TWO games drawing heavily on different asppects of 18xx for their gameplay - Greentown's routes, and Imperial's control of countries through shares & finances.

Thread: Mini Review: GreentownXX A Pleasant Surprise

JasonMatthews — 2006-10-30T03:55:38+00:00

I am concerned that much of the negative buzz surrounding Greentown comes from a lack of context. Gunter Cornett has endeavored to create an accessible, 18xx style network game. As a long time 18xx player, I believe he has done so admirably. Of course, the stock component is out the window, but the stock game is emphasized or de-emphasized depending on which 18xx you are playing. But the heart of the building system -- touch these locations for a payout, upgrade tiles trying to get longer routes, upgrade tiles to screw with your opponents plans -- all that stuff is still here in spades. Yet, it is also in a digestible, 60 to 90 minute package.

I love the 18xx games, but I just don't have time to play them. This game will satisfying that same itch without swallowing a whole Saturday's gaming.

However, those unfamiliar with 18xx gaming -- who might be drawn in by the title, and presumption that this will be a rather light networking game may be in for an unpleasant surprise. Greentown is not light. There is serious analysis that goes into it. However, like a good 18xx, you can also do much of your analysis and planning between turns. Yes, your opponent's can mess with you (primarily by taking your trees), but this should also be part of your planning.

So, if you are playing with people who refuse to think between their actual turns, you will see some analysis paralysis here. That said, for any 18xx player, the choices will be relatively clear, and even the general configuration of the tiles will seem familiar.

I am beginning to think that Gunter mis-marketed this game. Had he presented it graphically a bit more like a conventional 18xx game, I think he would have found his target audience more easily. Furthermore, those who avoid such games would have been instantly warded off. As it stands, I am not sure the Puffing Billy crowd is aware that Greentown is really for them, while on the other hand, Gunter's fans from "Hey! That's My Fish" may be totally mystified by their recent purchase.

Well, having chanced upon it, I think this is a superb adaptation of the general features of an 18xx game. I thoroughly enjoyed my playing. I am concerned about replayability without lots of new setups and cards, but not too many games are going to get played more than 4 times in our group anyway, so perhaps that's an exaggerated danger for our group. Nevertheless, it is something that more consistent gamers may want to consider.

However, the central point of this review is this. Viewed in a vacuum, Greentown might seem too dry and too subject to the kind of downtime that only a deep networking game can bring. However, viewed as a reworking of 18xx, you will encounter a very engaging, streamlined game that hits its mark nicely. Viewed from that perspective, Greentown does everything I would ask of it, and does so in a charming, little, inexpensive package. If you are looking for Hey That My Fish II, look elsewhere, but if its a manageable 18xx you are looking for, you have found it.