Game: Power Grid - Benelux/Central Europe

Thread: Re: Weirdest Power Grid game ever

gokiburijin — 2008-10-01T07:43:25+00:00

Barticus88 wrote:

Awesome report, love those odd games. This was weirder than when I forgot the step 3 card!

That made me lol!

Thread: Fast 5p game in Central Europe; Timing is the key

gamezendo.com — 2008-08-29T17:50:51+00:00

At Ralph A's regular Thursday night gaming session in Norwalk, CT,
Mark, Tom, John P, Donna, and I set up a 5 player game of Power Grid on the Central Europe board, using the expansion Power Plant Deck by itself. We eliminated Western Poland from the map.

I was excited to try the Central Europe map, becuase my heritage is Slovak!

Mark took the 01 plant, went first in the building phase and built in Wien (which let him by trash at -1). Tom with plant 02 built nearby in Bratislava and Trnava (stealing my main Slovak cities!). With the 03 plant, I built in the two Polish cities with the "free" connection cost, Sosnowiec and Katowice, even though I could only power one plant. Donna followed up building in Budapest and a neighbor to the East, while John P built in Kosice and Risov on the Eastern map edge (which proved to be a tough choice).

On turn 2, Mark spread East and South to cut off Tom from easy pickings. Tom stood pat. Donna went north to Banska. I looked to move west into the ignored Czech reppublic and took Ostrava, and John P headed north into Krakow, as he was getting shut off down south.

During turn 3, Tom was powering with nuclear energy and a hybrid. John P had mainly oil plants. Donna had trash and nuclear. Mark had a small coal plant and a 5 production trash plant to take advantage of his Wien bonus. I had a small (1) hybrid, a small (1) wind, and an oil plant. A cut off Mark moved south and west into Austria more. Tom spent for 2 connections to bypass Mark to get to Necsneme in Hungary. I moved to Brno in the Czech Republic, and John continued moving up north into Poland.

Subsequent turns were tales of timing, resource costs, and flexibility.

As for flexibility, Mark always had the most flexible position on the board, never being blocked off. Tom had paid up once to cut across to Necsneme, but other than that had ample space to expand. John expanded through expensive, isolated Northern Poland. Donna was cut off early, and paid big to cut over into the Czech republic some. I had early cheap connections and great access to cheap 2nd stage connections, as I was near everyone else's cheap connections (in Wien Bratislava area, in Western Czech Republic, and in Poland)

As for resource costs, Tom competed with Donna early in the game for nuclear power, but had some hybrids and wind most of the rest of the way, so he fared OK, though he got caught paying up for coal/oil at some junctures. Mark competed with Donna, and at times others for trash, but his discount helped. He did well in his oil/coal purchasing.
John was all about oil most of the game, at times driving up prices for all and at times paying through the nose. Donna had trash and nuclear going most of the game, and had to compete with Tom and Mark for these at all points. I concentrated on getting low input or wind plants if possible. I got nuclear late in the game with only Tom having one nuke plant, so little competition there. I had a 5 production coal plant with 3 input for much of the game, but I judiciously bought up 2 turns worth when buying coal first and didn't have to buy when purchasing last. My last plant was a 6 wind plant, so basically my resource costs were the lowest.

The timing is really what won the game though. I had the most cities at six and went last in building/purchasing that next turn (which was OK since I didn't build or purchase!). Thus everyone passed me moving into 7, 8, or 9 cities pushing us into Stage 2. Thus I was first buying and building in Stage 2, loading up on cheap resources while connecting 5 cities with the money I had saved from the previous turn of not buying anything. At 11 cities, I was last in most phases the following turn-- Stage 3 came up, so Stage 2 had only lasted one turn. I once again stood pat while everyone else passed my 11 cities rushing toward a fast approaching game end. Once again I went from last to first in buying and building order, with all my money saved up from the previous turn of not building. On that last turn, I made 5 relatively cheap connections to get up to 16 cities.

I bought that 6 wind plant to go along with my 5 coal plant and 5 nuke plant to power 16 cities. Mark and Tom got to 15 cities each, with Tom winning the tiebreaker with 25 Euros to Mark's 2. Donna had the capacity to power 16 cities, but only had connections to 14. John powered 13 cities, as his money supply just wasn't enough to make connections.

In my mind, even though I did well in flexibility and resource management, it all boiled down to timing. I was lucky that Mark and Tom had enough competition to prevent them from taking advantage of their excellent board positions. I was lucky Donna's resource costs and connection costs kept her from connecting more. I was also lucky John expanded northward, keeping me from being tempted to do so. My access to other's cheap connection markets in stages 2 and 3 helped.

I like this Central Europe map. It had been a LONG time since I had played Power Grid, and the strategies seemed clearer upon reintroduction to the game. There are times when it pays to let the game flow to you without worrying what others do, and there are times when you have to set yourself up to make huge leaps. Also, as in all games, being cost conscious regarding input costs helps.

Mark and Tom seem convinced the new Power Plant deck is superior to the original, so I am going to take their word for it and play with it exclusively going forward. I value their opinions immensely. The new deck seemed good in this game (I would say the same even if I hadn't won). I have not purchased this mapboard yet, but am definitely going to soon.

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

stayman — 2008-08-19T04:26:04+00:00

As a final note. We decided to play with a 5 maximum availabale power plant marketplace after my son (at 6 years of age) won a game after this happened. (despite one of the players have at least 200 plays). It appears to potentially unbalance the game.

Thread: Re: Benelux for Two

mvettemagred — 2008-08-18T00:29:09+00:00

Thanks for posting this report. My wife really wants to learn Power Grid, and I want to try the Benelux map, so now I have no excuse but to teach her two player! (once we find the time)

Thread: Benelux for Two

amberaleman — 2008-08-17T22:46:31+00:00

My wife chose this map to play a two player game of Power Grid and I'm glad she did.

With oil cheap it seemed we both snapped up oil plants when they became available. She took a garbage plant early, though, and I took a couple of coal plants, so there was some competition for resources but not all the time.

We stayed close to each other, reaching Step 2 with me at 11 cities and Cindy at 10. In fact at that point it had been a relatively friendly game. I had driven the price up on oil once by buying as much as I could but we had built connections with very little conflict.

The game changed, however, as we closed in on 21 cities. Cindy jumped ahead to 18 cities to my 16. She could power 20 and I could only power 17.

On the next turn I knew I had lost but I gamely bought an oil plant that would leave me enough money to build the 5 connections I had remaining. All Cindy needed to do was buy a cheap garbage plant to increase her ouput by 1. I thought she certainly had enough money to build her last 3 connections. She chose another oil plant instead.

A flicker of hope flared and I bought as much oil as I could in order to force her to deplete her money. I could always hope for a tie.

Amazingly, I had purchased enough that she could not power all her cities. She was 1 barrel of oil short. 1 barrel!

Sometimes all it takes is a little luck. It certainly wasn't good management.

Of course, in the post-game recap we always like to do, she was kicking herself over buying the wrong plant at the end. But a close finish like this is always a good reason to play again.

So far, this was probably the most tense game of Power Grid we have had so I hope the Benelux map plays this well for two all the time.

Image

felo — 2008-07-21T13:37:03+00:00

Close up of our first game under the sun of Central Europe.

Thread: Re: Step 5 in Benelux?

ColtsFan76 — 2008-07-20T11:12:21+00:00

From the FAQ:

Question: In Step 1 and 2 during phase 5 (Bureaucracy) the smallest Power Plant is removed additionally from the Power Plant Market. Exactly when is this Power Plant removed (before or after the biggest Power Plant is placed below the Draw Pile regarding the Basic Rules)?

Answer: The smallest Power Plant is simultaneously removed from the Power Plant Market together with the biggest Power Plant. The smallest Power Plant is removed from the game, the biggest is placed below the Draw Pile. Not until then the empty spaces are refilled with new Power Plants from the Draw Pile and all Power Plants are rearranged regarding their size.

Thread: Re: Step 5 in Benelux?

freduk — 2008-07-20T10:58:23+00:00

We remove both cards, then draw replacements. That seems to make more sense to us.

Thread: Re: Step 5 in Benelux?

wmshub — 2008-07-20T05:24:54+00:00

DSHStratRat2 wrote:
It doesn't matter, since the two cards which will replace them are put into the markets in numerical order. Nothing happens between removing the lowest and highest plants from your market, so it doesn't matter which one you remove first.If I understand the question, it does matter. If you remove the lowest, and draw a card higher than the (current) highest, then the card you draw gets put under the deck.

If you remove the lowest and highest at the same time, then the card you draw will take another turn before it gets under the deck (and might not get there at all if, for example, step 3 hits soon).

Thread: Re: Step 5 in Benelux?

DSHStratRat2 — 2008-07-20T03:59:51+00:00

It doesn't matter, since the two cards which will replace them are put into the markets in numerical order. Nothing happens between removing the lowest and highest plants from your market, so it doesn't matter which one you remove first.

Thread: Re: Step 5 in Benelux?

cagriggs — 2008-07-20T03:53:25+00:00

At the same time is how we've always played it, then you draw two new power plants. I really like this board because it speeds the play up.

Thread: Step 5 in Benelux?

jas72 — 2008-07-20T03:31:38+00:00

In the expansion rules it says during step 5 you remove the lowest numbered power plant in the game. My question is, does this come before, after, or simultaneously with putting the highest numbered plant under the draw stack?

Thanks.

Thread: Re: bureaucracy for the Benelux map

Barking Iguana — 2008-07-09T22:11:54+00:00

Well, it's not extra in Stage 3, but you still remove it, just as you do even without the new rule.

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

Zhab — 2008-06-24T04:12:42+00:00

stayman wrote:
Why else would one include the FUSION plant as an ECO?
Well that is certainly weird since no matter what plant you draw, the 50 will always remain the most expensive plant of the market. The only way for this plant to be the "lowest" plant of the future market is to be the ONLY plant in the future market.

I guess you could say that they only specified what plant count as an eco plant. But if you are playing with the alternative deck and the "+ plant" variant, it is possible for a fusion plant such as the number 44 plant to be the lowest plant of the future market. So I guess it was not completly useless to mention.
Barticus88 wrote:
The rule is not recursive; it only applies to the fifth plant.
Well, I'm not so sure about that myself. Afterall, the exact word of the rules does begin by "whenever" or "Every time" depending on the version. Now this does seem to implie that the rule might be indeed recursive. Also, the wording of the rule never speak of "the 5th plant". They say "smallest power plant". The only use of the number 5 is in the description of an exemple and not even the rule itself.

In the end, if you are literal and really go by the word, the rules does seem to implie that you actualy enlarge the market multiple times if the right conditions meet. But All that said, common sense (mine anyways) does lead me to think the rule was badly worded and only intended to apply to the 5th plant. It would not be the first time in mankind gamming history. I actualy always tought it worked that way until I read this.

Thread: Re: Weirdest Power Grid game ever

unixrevolution — 2008-05-30T16:35:56+00:00

Barticus88 wrote:
Well maybe wasn't actually the weirdest Power Grid game of all time, but I've played 300 times, and I have never seen a game go like this.

Mike, Victor, and I sat down to play on the Central Europe map. The areas we chose were Austria, Czech, and Slovakia. With only one "no nuke" zone, the special nuke rule never had an effect.

Victor took Plant 03, I took Plant 04, Mike took Plant 05. Mike built three cities, Wien, Bratislava, and Trnava. His logic was that this was the cheapest part of the board, and he wanted to save money. In a three player game, losing turn order on the second round isn't a bad idea, because you know no plant higher than 13 can come up. Mike took Prague and I took some city in Slovakia. Second round, Victor took 09, Mike took 10, and I took 08. I chose the 08 because I like to be last in the turn order until I get a good plant. But there were no good plants. 12 and 17 and 19 had already come up. Plant 27 had gone off to Step 3 (where a three city plant is thoroughly useless).

Then the plant market clogged worse than I have ever seen it clog before. Over the next four rounds we each took one plant total. We had three plant phases where one person bought a plant, and one that was completely passed out. After six plant rounds, my friend Mike in California called me on my cell phone. I told him we were into the sixth round and I had 04, 08, and 16 (six cities worth). Worse, I was only going to power three cities that turn. He thought I was losing, but I explained that I wasn't. Victor had 03, 09, and 11 (four cities worth); Mike in Washington had 05, 10, and 12 (five cities worth). I had powered five cities the turn before, but I was powering only three cites that turn because by the time I got to buy fuel, three coal would have cost me €21 to collect only €20. In Central Europe, where you get one more coal per turn than the regular maps, coal was running short in Step 1! With Victor burning three oil and Mike running two hybrids, oil was at €7 also.

Victor bought Plant 14. That's normally crazy this deep into the game, but garbage was the cheapest commodity, plus he had Vienna. I just stood pat waiting for a plant. Victor triggered Step 2, building more cities than he could power, and this time it was a mistake. I just sat back waiting, and eventually I landed Plant 25. Coal was expensive, but powering five cites was worth it. Victor got Plants 21 & 31 and built to 12 cities. Big mistake. He collected a lot of money for two turns, but the Step 3 coal squeeze hit while Victor was leading. Mike and I bought out all the coal and oil, and Victor was screwed. I just stayed at ten cities, forgoing a little cash each turn, but maintaining position. Victor bought two plants to get out of the coal squeeze, but that cost him his cash advantage and more. I built seven cities to end the game.

I like fuel depletion games. The Central Europe map is expensive, so players are usually slower to build cities, and this keeps so much fuel from being burned. Normally I associate such fuel depletion with the cheap maps (Benelux, Northern Italy, and Eastern USA), but it can happen in Central Europe too.

Awesome report, love those odd games. This was weirder than when I forgot the step 3 card!

Thread: Weirdest Power Grid game ever

Barticus88 — 2008-05-30T06:42:11+00:00

Well maybe wasn't actually the weirdest Power Grid game of all time, but I've played 300 times, and I have never seen a game go like this.

Mike, Victor, and I sat down to play on the Central Europe map. The areas we chose were Austria, Czech, and Slovakia. With only one "no nuke" zone, the special nuke rule never had an effect.

Victor took Plant 03, I took Plant 04, Mike took Plant 05. Mike built three cities, Wien, Bratislava, and Trnava. His logic was that this was the cheapest part of the board, and he wanted to save money. In a three player game, losing turn order on the second round isn't a bad idea, because you know no plant higher than 13 can come up. Mike took Prague and I took some city in Slovakia. Second round, Victor took 09, Mike took 10, and I took 08. I chose the 08 because I like to be last in the turn order until I get a good plant. But there were no good plants. 12 and 17 and 19 had already come up. Plant 27 had gone off to Step 3 (where a three city plant is thoroughly useless).

Then the plant market clogged worse than I have ever seen it clog before. Over the next four rounds we each took one plant total. We had three plant phases where one person bought a plant, and one that was completely passed out. After six plant rounds, my friend Mike in California called me on my cell phone. I told him we were into the sixth round and I had 04, 08, and 16 (six cities worth). Worse, I was only going to power three cities that turn. He thought I was losing, but I explained that I wasn't. Victor had 03, 09, and 11 (four cities worth); Mike in Washington had 05, 10, and 12 (five cities worth). I had powered five cities the turn before, but I was powering only three cites that turn because by the time I got to buy fuel, three coal would have cost me €21 to collect only €20. In Central Europe, where you get one more coal per turn than the regular maps, coal was running short in Step 1! With Victor burning three oil and Mike running two hybrids, oil was at €7 also.

Victor bought Plant 14. That's normally crazy this deep into the game, but garbage was the cheapest commodity, plus he had Vienna. I just stood pat waiting for a plant. Victor triggered Step 2, building more cities than he could power, and this time it was a mistake. I just sat back waiting, and eventually I landed Plant 25. Coal was expensive, but powering five cites was worth it. Victor got Plants 21 & 31 and built to 12 cities. Big mistake. He collected a lot of money for two turns, but the Step 3 coal squeeze hit while Victor was leading. Mike and I bought out all the coal and oil, and Victor was screwed. I just stayed at ten cities, forgoing a little cash each turn, but maintaining position. Victor bought two plants to get out of the coal squeeze, but that cost him his cash advantage and more. I built seven cities to end the game.

I like fuel depletion games. The Central Europe map is expensive, so players are usually slower to build cities, and this keeps so much fuel from being burned. Normally I associate such fuel depletion with the cheap maps (Benelux, Northern Italy, and Eastern USA), but it can happen in Central Europe too.

Image

tommynomad — 2008-05-28T00:32:39+00:00

The BGGnome sits in on a game of PG Benelux while in Auckland

Thread: 4-player Central Europe game

GamingWench — 2008-05-22T19:28:26+00:00

It's always hard for us to find enough people for a meaningful game of PowerGrid, but last night we had 4 so we decided for a new experience, trying out the Central Europe board for the first time.

Here's the background info:

Henry and Robert had only played the Germany map once, so we did a brief rules explanation. QBert owns the game so he'd played a lot but never on the Central Europe map. I'd played quite a bit but also never on this map.

Unfortunately, since it was getting late and we'd just played a game of Catan, Henry, Robert, and I were all feeling a bit tired and I know at least I didn't pay enough attention to the differences between this map and some others I'd played. We had blocked off the Western Poland section and the section below that on the map.

In the first auction QBert bid quite high to get the 4 power plant (2 coal for 1 city), leaving Henry with the 7 (3 oil to 2 cities), me with the 8 (3 coal to 2 cities), and Robert with the lowest-numbered garbage city. QBert was now in position to drive up the price of coal, which made it a bit more difficult for me. Henry was in a tight spot because oil is so expensive in Central Europe, but buying up 6 oils made it nearly impossible for anyone else to buy any. Robert was the only one dealing in garbage but QBert preempted him from getting the Wien spot in Stage 1.

QBert placed in Wien and Robert placed next door, while Henry and I placed more towards the East in the middle of the board. Henry was running low on money so I built 3 connections off the bat to try to block him out of the blue area in the north east, or at least make it more expensive than it already was. Henry was only able to build one connection and QBert and Robert sat behind at 2 and 1 respectively.

So I was first in the 2nd turn and stupidly put the 9 plant up for auction (1 oil to 1 city), forgetting that oil is restocked at a much reduced rate in Central Europe compared to other maps. QBert kept acquiring efficient coal plants, Robert concentrated on garbage, and Henry went for the 13 green plant as soon as it came up.

QBert was able to get really efficient coal plants totalling 15 capacity early in the game, while I was at 7 capacity due to my unfortnate oil purchase, Robert was at 11, and Henry was around 5 or 6. This was partly because there was practically no competition for coal. This was disastrous for us because it forced us to put up undesirable plants for auction or not be able to increase our capacity. By consequence I ended up with the 18 green plant and a 1 uranium-4 cities plant, replacing my useless oil plant.

Henry managed to pick up another green plant and a decent coal plant near the end and Robert could almost have matched QBert's capacity with his garbage plants had he had enough money to build connections in the end. The best I was able to do given the terrible plant selection was acquire 3 uranium plants totalling 13 capacity, but this couldn't be enough to beat QBert. He was going to connect to his 17th city and be able to power 15.

Indeed this is what happened, with Robert not able to afford the 5 connections he'd need to compete. Even if he had been able to, he probably would've lost a money-based tie breaker.

End score was QBert with 15 cities, me with 13, Robert with 11, and Henry with 10.

Everyone enjoyed themselves but it seemed to brain burn a few of us who were getting tired when we started. My biggest regret was not having taken a closer look at the restocking differences for Central Europe vs. Germany. This game also really showed the edge you gain from really knowing the plant deck, as QBert does.

I guess we just need a few more plays to level the playing field!

Thread: The Invisible Arton and Luxemborg Defeat Me

Reish Galuta — 2008-05-08T17:58:37+00:00

We played on the Benelux board with the North-East cut out.

Players: PZ, Avri, Mory, Gavriel

We played a "fast" 2.5 hour game where we forgot to take out the 4 random plants, so step 3 came a turn late. I'm not sure it would have made any tremendous effect other than hurting the resources market a little. In Benelux, the market cycles faster, connections are cheap, oil is cheap, coal is expensive, and green plants are available more often. This usually makes for a quickly expanding game where you are limited only by your plants and how much you paid for them. It also meant that since the plants cycle more, PZ was able to end up with decent plants instead of waiting forever and falling behind (as he tends to do).

I was more aggressive with my plant purchasing and expansions and broke step two as fast as possible expanding to 8 while everyone else was on 6 or 5 cities. When it got to building at the end of the next turn I was still ahead as nobody was able to expand up to 8 yet, at that point I decided to just stay in first and attempt to push the game as fast as possible. This hurt Gavriel as he had hung back on cities after being briefly in first after the second or third turn. He was never able to catch up on the lost income, and when he purchased the 50 plant on the second last turn for 68 to prevent me from getting it, there was no way to catch up the city defecit in time. Mory had also been hanging back in cities slightly and his plants were heavy coal which ate into his income further, putting him in a similar situation. PZ and I were clearly in contention for the win, and I was ahead in cash as I didn't buy a plant in the last turn, but PZ was ahead in capacity. I was hoping he didn't have enough cash to build to 16 and have more money than me, as I was going to build to 17 to end the game. I got to build ahead of him since I sat an extra turn at 12, letting him go ahead of me to 13.

I calculated it out from what PZ had the turn before that he shouldn't have enough to beat me even in the worst case scenario, but I wasn't sure. Unfortunately I missed the existence of entirely unoccupied Arton and Luxemberg in the South, missing the cheapness of these connections, and allowing PZ to get them. PZ managed to build to 17 with exactly $1 left with the cheaper costs. I had around $17 left after building to 17 more expensively.

Final Scores: PZ 17, Avri 16, Mory 14, Gavriel 13

Thread: Short of Coal, and Suicide By Buying a Plant in Benelux

Reish Galuta — 2008-05-08T17:17:17+00:00

We played in Benelux with the South cut off.

Players: Avri (me), Eli, Tuvia, Mory

We played on the Benelux board for the first time where oil is cheap and coal is expensive. Additionally the lower plant in the market is thrown out every turn so the plants are cycled through faster. The third special rule is that if the lowest plant in the futures market is a green plant (wind) then it is considered part of the current market and is available to auction. The board also has very cheap connections. All of this makes for a bit of a faster paced game. I believe we forgot to take out the 4 random plants for playing with 4 players.

Mory won the 3 plant (OO->1), which was phenominal on this board, for 10. He placed at the cheapest connection which was in the North for 1. Eli took the 5 plant (HH->1) and blocked off a huge section of land in the South West with a single placement. Tuvia had the 7 plant (OOO->2) and placed to the East of Eli, and I had the 8 (CCC->2) and took to the South of Mory.

There was a fairly quick progression towards step 2. I kept up being the only one with coal plants while oil was being devoured. (Eventually the hybrid plants bought some coal too). One of the reasons to break step two so quickly was that the resources market was getting demolished b/c of all the quick expansion that was possible. Eli broke step two and built to connections. It was the first turn that breaking step two was possible, so there wasn't really any lost opportunity for Eli, especially considering his position on the board. He was not going to be cut off. The next turn we all built to 8 or 9, except for Mory who stayed behind I think. At this point I had a green plant, Tuvia had a garbage, and Eli had a nuclear plant, so the coil and oil were starting to do a little better... but not much.

We were all building towards better capacity. The 31 plant (CCC->6) was auctioned off by Mory and he got it at cost as nobody else wanted the 3 coal using plant. I ended up getting the 32 plant (OOO->6) for 60. Step three broke during plant cycling at the end of the turn. This made it very likely that this would be the last turn. Tuvia bought the 42 plant (CC->6) to bring him to 16 capacity, this was a terrible mistake though since Eli was able to pick up the 37 (CCC->7) plant to get him to 15 capacity but allowed him to short the coal market.

I had double bought for my 20 plant the turn before so I had fuel, Mory's 31 got shorted so he could only power 10, and Tuvia's 42 got shorted so he could also only power ten. I was building last this turn, and I'm pretty sure it was possible for everybody to conspire against me and take up my connections so I couldn't end the game. I needed to build 4 connections to end the game and win, and I managed to do with with $10 to spare. If they had worked at stopping me it surely would have succeeded. Neither Mory or Tuvia wanted to build to be ahead of the other though b/c they needed to stay behind in turn order if they wanted a shot at getting coal the next turn, so neither stopped me.

Final Scores: Avri 16, Eli 15, Tuvia 10+, Mory 10-

Image

Malachi — 2008-04-15T04:51:36+00:00

homemade player marker replacements in action

Image

Malachi — 2008-04-15T03:54:02+00:00

Homemade resource replacements in play

Thread: Re: Nuclear Power and City Count

dr.mrow — 2008-04-03T23:35:37+00:00

Susan,

I think you're supposed to assume that as long as you have a presence in Hungary or Czechoslovakia, you have a place to build your nuclear plant. Poles and Austrians aren't concerned that their electricity is contaminated with Uranium, just that their kids don't glow at night.

Thread: Re: Dan seeks glory with trash in Eastern Europe

nexttothemoon — 2008-03-26T21:18:52+00:00

Great detailed session report. If I didn't already own this expansion I'd certainly be tempted to buy after reading this.

Thread: Battle of Nations – or how the French won the Low Countries

Sorp222 — 2008-03-26T14:46:34+00:00

Not quite a repeat of 1815. I don’t think Napoleon would have shouted across the field to Wellington or Blucher

“I bid 60 on that power station!”

“I bid 61 and get out of my farmhouse…..”

The battle was held at London on Board, at the red Herring Pub on Gresham Street. I should stop the Napoleonic stuff now as I am going to upset the war gamers by my atrociously inappropriate comparisons and ignorance of history (What? Surely Leipzig is near Belgium…).

Having just picked up the Benelux expansion I was keen to give it a go and managed to rope in enough for a 6 player. The representatives: - me (50 or 62.5% England depending on which Grandparent you believe, the rest Welsh), Paul A (Australia), Steffan and Daniella (Germany), Mark (America –European ancestors), Vincent (French).

Only Mark and I had played Power Grid before, and thanks and big prop to Mark who not only has played the Benelux map but has also read the rules! If I had read the rules I would not have chosen plant four as my first choice but I was too busy smirking at Paul’s choice of Garbage to notice that starting Coal and Oil are reversed on this map.

The newcomers grasped the strategic principles very quickly, bidding and blocking as if born to it. I, having played the game nearly thirty times, played like a novice. The Low Countries map has a very different rhythm to the game to the ‘vanilla’ maps. I have previously compared Power Grid to a middle distance race; this game felt more like a sprint. Mark commented that “Here your Power Plant capacity quickly exceeds your cities, on other maps it’s the other way round”

The result? Vincent’s policy of taking the plants no one else wanted and not being afraid to build out and accrue extra income helped him to power 15 cities with some cash to spare. Everyone else dipped for the line at the same time (14 or 15 cities with no cash). I have a feeling that Mark would have won but for him being distracted by having to administrate and act as general advisor. Me? I was lucky with second.

Thread: Re: Trash in Vienna

russ — 2008-03-21T16:53:42+00:00

I think Legal Counsel misunderstood that the OP meant "Is the price of the entire set of pieces purchased reduced by 1, or is the price of each piece reduced by one", not "Is the purchase cost changed to simply be 1" which is the question Legal Counsel seemed to be answering...

In any case, yeah, the price of each piece is reduced by 1, since "a discount of 1 Electro per piece" is pretty darned clear indeed.

Thread: Re: Nuclear Power and City Count

russ — 2008-03-21T16:40:10+00:00

Rusty567 wrote:
Is my interpretation reasonable or am I rules lawyering?
I think you are doing the opposite of rules lawyering - you are imposing your own idea of what the rule "should" be and adding in additional rules concepts instead of simply reading what is literally written in the rules. The rule as written is clear and unambiguous.
A player may only bid on (and buy) a nuclear power plant when his network has at least one city in Hungary, Czech Republic, or Slovakia. A player whose network has cities in only Poland and Austria may not select a nuclear power plant to begin an auction nor bid on one if a nuclear plant is being auctioned.
There's nothing about which plant is supplying power to which city, in the basic rules or in the expansion rules.

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

russ — 2008-03-21T16:35:18+00:00

pilight wrote:
The rule does say...
Karlsen wrote:
Thus, in this case, there are five plants available for auction instead of four .
...which implies that there are other cases which could result in other numbers of available plants.
I believe the other case would be four plants...

I agree the English wording is terrible (and arguably literally suggests that you keep adding eco plants as long as they keep being the lowest future plant), but the intent seems somewhat clear especially looking at the example illustration, where one eco plant was added to the 4, making 5, and the next in line is also an eco plant, but it is remaining in the future set, rather than also being in the available set.

Thread: Re: Much Like The Spanish Inquisition... (In Central Europe)

perfalbion — 2008-03-10T12:54:51+00:00

Got it. I withdraw my critique.

Crappy position to take over.

Thread: Re: Much Like The Spanish Inquisition... (In Central Europe)

Reish Galuta — 2008-03-10T12:28:08+00:00

perfalbion wrote:
Please note that I'm not trying to be a jerk. "Simple Text" makes questions/comments often look more biting or critical than they are. My first reply might make it seem like I'm more interested in slamming the player than discussing the play, and that's not the case.

Now granted the player isn't the strongest player in the group, all the same I'm just trying to defend the play, b/c I think I agreed that he could not have won... though I do think he just wanted to end the game and not bother trying.

perfalbion wrote:

If 12 is the total to trigger a win, he's a 6 cap away from being able to do so, so I guess I'm missing your point. Build no cities this turn so that you're sure to have early access to resources and you're first to build next turn. Bid up the auctions as high as you can without winning any but the one you want to drive up the other player's prices, then buy resources leaving just enough cash to get to 12 total cities, and take your shot. Even if you lose, it's a pretty dramatic comeback.

12 wasn't enough to trigger a win. The game ends when somebody builds 14 cities. I thought that I was the only one with enough cash on hand to end the game that turn, and that I'd have another turn afterwards to take the win. The winning capacity was going to be at least 15. The reason that 12 won it was b/c the game ended a turn early. The next turn I would have bought at least a 6-cap, or a 7-cap if it was available to bring my capacity to 15 or 16, and I would have easily made all those connections

perfalbion wrote:

How'd you arrive at the 108 figure? If he's going last and the other players are dropping out, then the bigger plants should be his at list price.

108 was the amount that the only 6-cap plant available in the auction went for that turn. Eliezer also wasn't last that turn, but somewhere in the middle I think. The next highest cap auctioned off in that round was a 4.

Without that 6-cap, he had no chance to win at all. And if he had paid to win it, he'd still have no chance to win.

Thread: Re: Much Like The Spanish Inquisition... (In Central Europe)

perfalbion — 2008-03-10T12:13:17+00:00

Please note that I'm not trying to be a jerk. "Simple Text" makes questions/comments often look more biting or critical than they are. My first reply might make it seem like I'm more interested in slamming the player than discussing the play, and that's not the case.

Reish Galuta wrote:
He was stuck with two 3 cap plants and a 2 cap plant.

If 12 is the total to trigger a win, he's a 6 cap away from being able to do so, so I guess I'm missing your point. Build no cities this turn so that you're sure to have early access to resources and you're first to build next turn. Bid up the auctions as high as you can without winning any but the one you want to drive up the other player's prices, then buy resources leaving just enough cash to get to 12 total cities, and take your shot. Even if you lose, it's a pretty dramatic comeback.

Even if he had spent the cash for the one high cap plant that was available for auction that turn, it would have required over $108 to do it.

How'd you arrive at the 108 figure? If he's going last and the other players are dropping out, then the bigger plants should be his at list price.

Please note: I've not played this expansion board, so it may be a rule that I'm unaware of that increases the cost significantly.

It was.

I could see that, then.

Thread: Re: Much Like The Spanish Inquisition... (In Central Europe)

Reish Galuta — 2008-03-10T12:03:57+00:00

perfalbion wrote:

If the player before him never engaged in expanding capacity, OK - you took over a position from someone that didn't play well. But if he's sitting on 150 elektro and had a few turns to fix that, then this play is just silly. Hand me 150, and I'm gonna win the auction I want to win and get the biggest, baddest plant I can afford. Particularly with two green plants, I'm grabbing a 5-6 capacity and fueling it.

He was stuck with two 3 cap plants and a 2 cap plant. There was no way he could upgrade to sufficient capacity to compete in the time left. There was going to be one more turn or so after the current one. Even if he had spent the cash for the one high cap plant that was available for auction that turn, it would have required over $108 to do it. He wouldn't have had the cash left to buy another big plant the next turn and expand, which he would have to do.

perfalbion wrote:

Coming in dead last to speed things along strikes me as silly unless this was the very first turn he played with that budget.

It was.

Thread: Re: Much Like The Spanish Inquisition... (In Central Europe)

perfalbion — 2008-03-10T11:53:37+00:00

Reish Galuta wrote:
Since he had never really bought any big plants he had a whole pile of cash saved up.

If the player before him never engaged in expanding capacity, OK - you took over a position from someone that didn't play well. But if he's sitting on 150 elektro and had a few turns to fix that, then this play is just silly. Hand me 150, and I'm gonna win the auction I want to win and get the biggest, baddest plant I can afford. Particularly with two green plants, I'm grabbing a 5-6 capacity and fueling it.

Coming in dead last to speed things along strikes me as silly unless this was the very first turn he played with that budget.

He came in dead last of course, but it didn't look like playing any longer was going to change that prospect, so he just ended it.

With that budget in hand, I can't agree with this conclusion. Needing only one other plant to get to a winning total to at least be in the race, this was definitely not a good choice.

Thread: Re: Much Like The Spanish Inquisition... (In Central Europe)

Reish Galuta — 2008-03-10T07:34:50+00:00

Kubigaruma wrote:
Was this Eliezer's first game? If not, and he knew he was actually ending the game and playing kingmaker, I would avoid playing Power Grid with him in the future. That kind of attitude is silly and seems like they are just being pissy.

We didn't see it as being a kingmaker. Eliezer inherited an unwinnable position in the game and if he let the game last another turn it would have taken at least another half hour. Nobody thought he could have finished anywhere other than last, so it's not like he hurt himself to help somebody else.

Somebody in last place ending the game to stop the suffering is not kingmaking imho. It may be irritating to the people jockeying for first, but it's something they should take into consideration might happen. I should have been watching for it when I saw him pass up plants. It was my fault for letting it happen.

Thread: Re: Much Like The Spanish Inquisition... (In Central Europe)

Kubigaruma — 2008-03-10T00:20:01+00:00

Was this Eliezer's first game? If not, and he knew he was actually ending the game and playing kingmaker, I would avoid playing Power Grid with him in the future. That kind of attitude is silly and seems like they are just being pissy.

Thread: Re: Much Like The Spanish Inquisition... (In Central Europe)

Profesor Mora — 2008-03-09T22:55:52+00:00

Nobody expects the...!! um...the spanish...um...

Thread: Much Like The Spanish Inquisition... (In Central Europe)

Reish Galuta — 2008-03-09T21:41:48+00:00

Players:
Marc, Avri, Mory/Meir, Richie, Gavriel, Eliezer/PZ

I won't ruin the ending, but yes... it was very unexpected.

It was our first time on the Central Europe board, which has a few quirks on it (making it a bit odd for Marc's first time, but he walked in as we were about to start). In Central Europe the coal restock is a bit higher than usual, and the oil is a bit slower. Garbage gets a huge boost in steps 2 and 3, and uranium is about the same. If you are in Vienna (Wien) then you can buy garbage for $1 cheaper (which is ironic since the two people that were in Vienna did not get any garbage plants). The last quirk is that if you only own cities in Poland or Austria then you cannot bid on a nuclear plant (due to anti-nuclear policies in those countries).

With coal at a high refresh the coal plants were in high demand, most people ended up with a coal plant of some sort, except for Marc who got the 7 plant. The board is fairly expensive and we all spread out. I bought two cities where I probably should have only bought one, but I didn't want to get cornered in. PZ did get locked into the center of the board and was stuck until step two broke. Gavriel and I were in the south. Richie was in the West, and Marc was in the North picking up the no-connection cost double city for his 2 capacity plant. Meir started in the East.

I jumped out in front with 3 cities on turn two and powering them all after buying the 12 plant, but Marc had bought the 20 plant for a wad of cash, and Meir had bought the 24. The next turn some more high capacity plants came out and I got the 25, Richie got the 28 I believe, and Gavriel got ... er some decent plant... the 32? PZ still hung back as usual, content with 2 and 3 capacity plants. There were a decent number of mistakes made this game in general. PZ double bought fuel one turn which prevented him from expanding, people ducked out of bidding when they should have pushed on... and the biggest mistake of the game was the next turn when I fell back in turn order for what was the first and only time that game and was handed the 26 on a silver platter bidding last... and I passed it up so I could expand that turn and earn more income. I don't know what came over me, it almost definitely lost me the game. Instead Marc got it the next turn for some ungodly sum, and I ended up with the 29 plant. The highest amount paid for a plant though was for the 30 the next turn which went to Richie for about 108 I believe. Marc got the 33 for 40.

At this point the capacities were 14 for Marc (33 Free->4, 26 (OO->5), 20 (CCC->5), 11 for me (25 (CC->5), 29 (H->4), 12(HH->2)), 10 for Gavriel I believe (with the 32 (OOO->6), the 11 (N->2), and the 8 (CCC->2)), and 14 for Richie as well (with the 30 (GGG->6), the 28 (N->4), and the 21 (HH->4)). Mory, who had taken over for Meir had 10 capacity (24 GG->4, 16 (CC->3), something with 3 cap), and Eliezer who took over for PZ had only 8 (27 (Free->3), 23 (N->3), 22 (Free->2) capacity plants.

I thought I'd be fine to sit back a turn and buy a bigger plant the next turn since step 3 would definitely start so I let the 30 and the 33 go by, confident that I was the only one with enough money to end the game that turn, having built up to 11 the turn before and earning the most income (with everybody else sitting at 8 cities).

Then in the most sudden ending of a game I've ever seen, Eliezer throws 6 cities down on the board and pays ~$150 to end the game. Since he had never really bought any big plants he had a whole pile of cash saved up. He came in dead last of course, but it didn't look like playing any longer was going to change that prospect, so he just ended it. We never saw it coming.

The promised turn of step 3 auctioning never arrived and the game came to a crashing halt. Marc had a clear victory having built up to 12 cities and powering them all. I was still stuck at my 11 capacity and had plenty of cash, but no reason to build more than the 11 I already had. Gavriel had a pile of cash left, but since he didn't buy any coal (not indending to expand this turn), he was stuck only powering 8, instead of powering 10 for third place. Richie was cash poor and though he had a capacity of 14 he could only afford to build to 10 after spending so much cash on the 30. He didn't have fuel for all his plants, but he wouldn't have been able to build to 11 anyways.

Final Scores:
Marc 12, Avri 11, Mory/Meir 10+, Richie 10-, Gavriel 8+, Eliezer/PZ 8- (14 cities)

Image

sajimenez — 2008-03-05T05:07:01+00:00

hmmm, should i bid higher?

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sajimenez — 2008-03-05T05:05:29+00:00

Image

-=Dani=- — 2008-02-28T14:35:34+00:00

New Years Eve game night

Thread: Re: bureaucracy for the Benelux map

tromed2 — 2008-02-18T16:32:04+00:00

Laner wrote:
We had a problem here. 4 players did as the post over suggest, but we ran out of plants. So there where only one plant in the market when the game was over. Did we do anything wrong?

Probably not, but just remember that you only take out the extra plant during steps 1 and 2, not step 3.

Thread: Re: No rules with Board?

dcorban — 2008-02-15T12:42:29+00:00

Weird considering the rulebook is also the cover of the package. I wonder how the store handled selling the item to you.

Thread: Re: No rules with Board?

ColtsFan76 — 2008-02-15T06:07:56+00:00

Contact RGG.
http://riograndegames.com/contact.html

And you can use this in the meantime:
http://riograndegames.com/uploads/Game/Game_157_gameRules.pd...

Thread: No rules with Board?

FlyNRyan — 2008-02-15T02:56:12+00:00

I did not get the new rules with my board. Any one else have this problem?

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

stayman — 2007-12-04T18:20:50+00:00

I agree this would have been a much better way of saying it.
Barticus88 wrote:
stayman wrote:
The American rules specifically are:

Whenever the smallest power plant in the future market is an ecological power plant, it is added to the market of available power plants. Thus, in this case, there are five plants available for auction instead of four .

This seems to indicate that the market should be expanded to Six, Seven, or even Eight if the "right" conditions persist.

It took me a while to figure out how you are misreading this. If the fifth plant is wind, it is part of the available plant market. You are saying that the sixth plant is now the lowest in the future market and you are applying the rule again. Don't. The rule is not recursive; it only applies to the fifth plant.

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

pilight — 2007-12-04T18:18:07+00:00

Karlsen wrote:
It says it is available for auction, but doesn't say that the future market is reduced to three or that you add another plant to the future market or various other interpretations that could theoretically be made

It does say that the present market is expanded. Unless you're suggesting a plant can be in both the present and future at the same time, it's not unreasonable to think the rule could apply to multiple plants at once.

The rule does say...

Thus, in this case, there are five plants available for auction instead of four .

...which implies that there are other cases which could result in other numbers of available plants.

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

stayman — 2007-12-04T18:03:29+00:00

Just so you know, the American Rules have a pictograph showing that the plant should be moved from the "future market" to the "available market". The picture shows the "Future market" with three power plants and the "available market" with 5.

Karlsen wrote:
stayman wrote:

The American rules specifically are:

Whenever the smallest power plant in the future market is an ecological power plant, it is added to the market of available power plants. Thus, in this case, there are five plants available for auction instead of four .

It says it is available for auction, but doesn't say that the future market is reduced to three or that you add another plant to the future market or various other interpretations that could theoretically be made

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

Karlsen — 2007-11-25T09:49:32+00:00

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

Barticus88 — 2007-11-25T07:23:37+00:00

stayman wrote:
The American rules specifically are:

Whenever the smallest power plant in the future market is an ecological power plant, it is added to the market of available power plants. Thus, in this case, there are five plants available for auction instead of four .

This seems to indicate that the market should be expanded to Six, Seven, or even Eight if the "right" conditions persist.

It took me a while to figure out how you are misreading this. If the fifth plant is wind, it is part of the available plant market. You are saying that the sixth plant is now the lowest in the future market and you are applying the rule again. Don't. The rule is not recursive; it only applies to the fifth plant.

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

stayman — 2007-11-19T23:58:45+00:00

Here is the rule from the BGG file.

Every time the smallest power plant in the future market is an ecological plant (wind/solar power or fusion power), the present market is enlarged and that plant may equally be acquired from the players. In that case, there are 5 plants available for purchase.

Example:
Actual market: Plant 9 (Oil), Plant 10 (Coal), Plant 11 (Uranium), Plant 12 (Hybrid) Future market: Plant 13 (Eco), Plant 14 (Trash), Plant 15 (Coal), Plant 16 (Oil) The plant 13 is moved to the actual market; plants 9 through 13 are available for purchase

The American rules specifically are:

Whenever the smallest power plant in the future market is an ecological power plant, it is added to the market of available power plants. Thus, in this case, there are five plants available for auction instead of four .

This seems to indicate that the market should be expanded to Six, Seven, or even Eight if the "right" conditions persist.

Example:
Actual market: Plant 9 (Oil), Plant 10 (Coal), Plant 11 (Uranium), Plant 12 (Hybrid) Future market: Plant 13 (Eco), Plant 18 (Eco), Plant 44 (Eco), Plant 50 (Fusion) ALL plants are moved to the actual market????????? Why else would one include the FUSION plant as an ECO? The American rules even has a picture of moving the plant from the future market and adding it to the market of available power plants without replacement.

That ALL SAID, the introduction to Benelux does say "the rules change to allow an extra ecological power plant" In the end I would say, the word AN extra, does limit the number to one. It happened in a game I was not involved with, but thought I would ask here for some sort of "official" answer.

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

TermiGator — 2007-11-19T09:11:09+00:00

solove wrote:
Off the top of my head, only the next power plant is available if it is a wind/hydro power plant.

So there can only be at most 5 power plants available. Even if the entire future market is full of them.
Thats right.
You'll usually only get the "normal" 4 Plants in the upper row. Only if the 5th plant (first left in second row) is a "green" powerplant you can auction it off.

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

JeVo — 2007-11-19T08:23:33+00:00

as far as i remember that's the situation:
you can auction the first en only the first plant from the future market if it is a blue/green plant.

Thread: Re: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

solove — 2007-11-17T23:24:36+00:00

Off the top of my head, only the next power plant is available if it is a wind/hydro power plant.

So there can only be at most 5 power plants available. Even if the entire future market is full of them.

Thread: Most power plants in the market for auctions.

stayman — 2007-11-17T21:33:21+00:00

As I read it, there is no limit to the number of power plants available for auction. Therefore if the upper row of power plants (freakishly) consists of mostly wind power and a very high # power plants, is it possible to have 6 (or even seven) power plants available in the market for sale at one given moment?

Image

Urtur — 2007-09-06T22:42:52+00:00

Polish version (by Lacerta)

Thread: Re: bureaucracy for the Benelux map

Ponton — 2007-08-28T19:40:56+00:00

violplayer wrote:
Hi,
is there anyone knowing about what to do first, either remove the smallest plant or to put the biggest one under the pile? Or do you have to do those two actions at once? There are several situations that may cause different piles depending on the order you do these things....

Best regards, vioplayer.

See the FAQ on 2f-spiele.de - it says, you remove both plants at once.

Thread: Re: Does Benelux map play faster?

Ponton — 2007-08-28T19:37:24+00:00

Karlsen wrote:
We played a four player game tonight and it definitely went faster. The removal of the lowest plant in addition to putting the highest plant under the deck speeds the whole process up, the Step 3 card appears much faster.

I'm going to have to scout around to see if there are any additional special rules - we played four player (as mentioned above) using only the bottom four provinces which means we exlcuded the brown (or off-orange) and green regions. When you add it up there are only twenty-one cities, which means a total of 63 connections can be made. Technically this means 16-16-16-15 is possible for the four players which means the end game of 17 cities cannot be triggered. We ended up with 17-16-16-14 so the end game was triggered, we figured that we would just have to call it if the last connection was built, but perhaps the standard rules for excluding regions should be modified for this map? There is nothing in the German original or the English translation from BGG to cover this.

You got the rules wrong - the rules do not say you have to exclude 2 regions, but that you use 4 regions if played 4-player (3 regions for 2-3 players, 5 regions for 5-6 players), so you remove 2 regions on the other maps, but as the Benelux map has only 5, you remove just 1 to get the required 4.

Thread: Re: Does Benelux map play faster?

Kheldar — 2007-08-28T10:34:46+00:00

played it for the first time last night.

and it certainly seemed to fly by compared to the other maps.

for 2 players we enjoyed it.

Image

phibbi — 2007-07-17T18:29:26+00:00

What a suicidal power plants strategy!

Image

Verkisto — 2007-04-17T03:10:22+00:00

... and Natural is off to an early lead in Central Europe! (A/K/A a simpler way of dividing the playing areas of the board)