Game: Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization

Thread: Re: POLL: Have you received your TtA Fix Pack?

AbeLincoln — 2008-05-15T11:08:56+00:00

i received my fix pack but haven't stickered it up yet. your poll put me in quite the pickle.

Thread: Re: Through the Ages Card FAQ/Clarifications

Odinsday — 2008-05-15T11:01:25+00:00

DaviddesJ wrote:
Odinsday wrote:
I need to review the rules, but I thought any population loss was a move to the Pop bank. Losing a worker to the Unused worker pool doesn't lower your population, it merely removes the building.

Border Conflict says "lose one urban building, farm, or mine". It doesn't say anything about losing population. So why would it go to the bank? The token clearly goes to the unused worker pool.

To be clearer, I am querying the statement by Gamer_Dog:

Border Conflict is to unused worker pool as are all population or building losses

'all population losses'. I agree with the statement about Border Conflict, and building losses in general. I do not agree with the statement about 'population loss'.

Thread: Re: POLL: Have you received your TtA Fix Pack?

jearles — 2008-05-15T10:58:44+00:00

For the record I have not received my fix pack in the mail yet, but the owner of the online store I purchased the game from picked up some while at the GAMA Trade Show. I received one of those.

Thread: VASSAL Playtest

Dmart — 2008-05-15T10:49:11+00:00

To work out some final kinks (and to whet your appetite), a group of us is playing a VASSAL pbem of Through the Ages. The effort that Dave (Neumannium) has put into the module is incredible, as I am sure that Scott and Ray will confirm. Hopefully we'll have the module available for all to use very shortly. We want to showcase it to the designer and/or distributor to get the final seal of approval. Enough of the background, though. Follow below the story of our civilizations Through the Ages.

VASSAL Through the Ages (v1.32)
Player Order (determined randomly): Scott (qzhdad), Ray (valkray), Dave (Neumannium), Dale (Dmart)

Turn 1
* Aristotle, Moses, Ideal Building Site, Rich Land, Hanging Gardens
** Hammurabi, Revolutionary Idea, Frugality, Homer
*** Pyramids, Engineering Genius, Library of Alexandria, Frugality
Scott takes Aristotle (1).
Ray takes Ideal Building Site (1) and Rich Land (1).
Dave takes Hanging Gardens (1) and Homer (2).
Dale takes Moses (1) and Engineering Genius (3).

Turn 2 (Scott)
* Hammurabi, Revolutionary Idea, Frugality, Pyramids, Library of Alexandria
** Frugality, Patriotism, Work of Art, Alexander the Great
*** Ideal Building Site, Julius Caesar, Colossus, Rich Land
Political Action: None available.
Other Actions: Take Pyramids (1), build Mine- Bronze (1), increase population (1), take Frugality (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments:

Turn 2 (Ray)
* Revolutionary Idea, Library of Alexandria, Frugality, Patriotism, Work of Art
** Alexander the Great, Ideal Building Site, Julius Caesar, Colossus
*** Rich Land, Patriotism, Joan of Arc, Efficient Upgrade
Political Action: None available.
Other Actions: Take Library of Alexandria (1), play Rich Land (build Mine- Bronze; 1), increase population (1), construct stage of Library of Alexandria (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments:

Turn 2 (Dave)
* Frugality, Patriotism, Work of Art, Alexander the Great, Ideal Building Site
** Julius Caesar, Colossus, Rich Land, Patriotism
*** Joan of Arc, Efficient Upgrade, Christopher Columbus, Alchemy
Political Action: None available.
Other Actions: Play Homer (1), take Work of Art (1), build Mine- Bronze (1), increase population (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments:

Turn 2 (Dale)
* Patriotism, Alexander the Great, Ideal Building Site, Julius Caesar, Colossus
** Rich Land, Patriotism, Joan of Arc, Efficient Upgrade
*** Christopher Columbus, Alchemy, Masonry, Taj Mahal
Political Action: None available.
Other Actions: Play Moses (1), build Mine- Bronze (1), increase population (1), take Ideal Building Site (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments:

[IMG]http://dallmartin.weebly.com/uploads/7/3/0/2/730266/846116.png[/IMG]
Turn 3 (Scott)
* Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Colossus, Rich Land, Patriotism
** Joan of Arc, Efficient Upgrade, Christopher Columbus, Alchemy
*** Masonry, Taj Mahal, Printing Press, Breakthrough
Political Action: Reveal Development of Agriculture.
Other Actions: Increase population (1), play Frugality (1), build Mine- Bronze (1), take Rich Land (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments: No need to play Aristotle yet. Needed to keep corruption down, so I increased population twice. Hopefully, I can use the Ideal Building Site to increase infrastructure and still work on Pyramid.

Turn 3 (Ray)
* Julius Caesar, Colossus, Patriotism, Joan of Arc, Efficient Upgrade
** Christopher Columbus, Alchemy, Masonry, Taj Mahal
*** Printing Press, Breakthrough, Drama, Theology
Political Action: None.
Other Actions: Build Mine- Bronze (1), take Alchemy (2), increase population (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments: Needed to increase population to avoid revolt. Where is that free population event? Sigh.

Turn 3 (Dave)
* Colossus, Patriotism, Joan of Arc, Efficient Upgrade, Christopher Columbus
** Masonry, Taj Mahal, Printing Press, Breakthrough
*** Drama, Theology, Bountiful Harvest, Frederick Barbarossa
Political Action: Reveal Development of Settlement (Dave, Dale, Scott, Ray)
Other Actions: Play Work of Art (1), take Christopher Columbus (1), complete stage of Hanging Gardens (1), increase population (1), conscript Infantry- Warrior (M).
Comments:

Turn 3 (Dale)
* Patriotism, Joan of Arc, Efficient Upgrade, Masonry, Taj Mahal
** Printing Press, Breakthrough, Drama, Theology
*** Bountiful Harvest, Frederick Barbarossa, Monarchy, Alchemy
Political Action: Reveal Development of Markets.
Other Actions: Play Ideal Building Site (build temple- Religion; 1), build lab- Philosophy (1), increase population (1), take Masonry; draw two Military cards.
Comments: Trying to take advantage of Moses’ benefits for as long as possible.

[IMG]http://dallmartin.weebly.com/uploads/7/3/0/2/730266/6648350.png[/IMG]
Turn 4 (Scott)
* Joan of Arc, Efficient Upgrade, Taj Mahal, Printing Press, Breakthrough
** Drama, Theology, Bountiful Harvest, Frederick Barbarossa
*** Monarchy, Alchemy, Irrigation, St. Peter’s Basilica
Political Action: Reveal Development of Crafts.
Other Actions: Construct stage of Pyramids (1), construct stage of Pyramids (1), complete Pyramids (1), play Rich Land (build Farm- Agriculture; 1), build Mine- Bronze (1).
Comments: Still holding Aristotle because I’ve not seen a Tech that I “needed” for the price. He may never hit the table.

Turn 4 (Ray)
* Efficient Upgrade, Taj Mahal, Printing Press, Breakthrough, Drama
** Theology, Bountiful Harvest, Frederick Barbarossa, Monarchy
*** Alchemy, Irrigation, St. Peter’s Basilica, Work of Art
Political Action: Reveal Development of Religion (Ray, Dave, Dale, Scott)
Other Actions: Construct stage of Library of Alexandria (1), construct stage of Library of Alexandria (1), complete Library of Alexandria (1), play Ideal Building Site (build lab- Philosophy; 1), conscript Infantry- Warrior (M); draw one Military card.
Comments: Resource heaven! Create a Warrior to expend some resources. Hope the extra card capacity will give a little flexibility.

Turn 4 (Dave)
* Taj Mahal, Printing Press, Breakthrough, Drama, Theology
** Bountiful Harvest, Frederick Barbarossa, Monarchy, Alchemy
*** Irrigation, St. Peter’s Basilica, Work of Art, Mineral Deposits
Political Action: None.
Other Actions: Construct stage of Hanging Gardens (1), complete Hanging Gardens (1), take Printing Press (1), build lab- Philosophy (1), play Fighting Band (M); draw one Military card.
Comments: I need to build a farm!

Turn 4 (Dale)
* Breakthrough, Drama, Theology, Bountiful Harvest, Frederick Barbarossa
** Monarchy, Alchemy, Irrigation, St. Peter’s Basilica
*** Work of Art, Mineral Deposits, Printing Press, Warfare
Political Action: Reveal No Event.
Other Actions: Increase population (1), conscript an Infantry- Warrior (M), take Theology (1), take Alchemy (2); draw one Military card.
Comments: Difficult decision between Monarchy and Alchemy, but I think the additional science will be more beneficial at this point.

[IMG]http://dallmartin.weebly.com/uploads/7/3/0/2/730266/2620091.png[/IMG]
Turn 5 (Scott)
* Drama, Bountiful Harvest, Frederick Barbarossa, Monarchy, Irrigation
** St. Peter’s Basilica, Work of Art, Mineral Deposits, Printing Press
*** Warfare, Alchemy, Irrigation, Monarchy
Political Action: Reveal Immigration (Dave benefits).
Other Actions: Play Aristotle (1), take Irrigation (1), increase population (1), play Irrigation (1), build lab- Philosophy (1); take two Military cards.
Comments: Aristotle made the board finally. I can’t believe that the first tech that I picked up didn’t happen until the fifth turn. I wouldn’t have predicted Irrigation to be the first one either. I’ll keep pumping out the pop to see how that works and Irrigation will help with that.

Turn 5 (Ray)
* Bountiful Harvest, Frederick Barbarossa, Monarchy, St. Peter’s Basilica, Work of Art
** Mineral Deposits, Printing Press, Warfare, Alchemy
*** Irrigation, Monarchy, Theocracy, Code of Laws
Political Action: Reveal Barbarians (no effect)
Other Actions: Increase population (1), take St. Peter’s Basilica (2), construct a stage of St. Peter’s Basilica (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments: No secondary production yet. Cycling blue tokens. Trying a second Wonder, not something I’ve done in the past.

Turn 5 (Dave)
* Frederick Barbarossa, Monarchy, Work of Art, Mineral Deposits, Printing Press
** Warfare, Alchemy, Irrigation, Monarchy
*** Theocracy, Code of Laws, Rich Land, Universitas Carolina
Political Action: None
Other Actions: Take Work of Art (1), take Monarchy (1), build Farm- Agriculture (1), increase population (1), conscript Infantry- Warrior (M); draw one Military card.
Comments: Not sure about my play this turn, but trying to capitalize and build my current Strength and Culture lead.

Turn 5 (Dale)
* Mineral Deposits, Printing Press, Warfare, Alchemy, Irrigation
** Monarchy, Theocracy, Code of Laws, Rich Land
*** Universitas Carolina, Genghis Khan, Code of Laws, Bread and Circuses
Political Action: Reveal Rebellion (no effect).
Other Actions: Play Alchemy (1), increase population (1), upgrade lab- Philosophy to Alchemy (1), build Farm- Agriculture (1); draw two Military cards
Comments: My supply of resources forced me to build to avoid corruption, which precluded my ability to draw any cards from the Card Row (I also had to play a card to drop below the maximum hand limit).

[IMG]http://dallmartin.weebly.com/uploads/7/3/0/2/730266/6685583.png[/IMG]
Turn 6 (Scott)
* Printing Press, Warfare, Alchemy, Irrigation, Monarchy,
** Theocracy, Code of Laws, Rich Land, Universitas Carolina
*** Genghis Khan, Code of Laws, Bread and Circuses, Efficient Upgrade
Political Action: Reveal Wealthy Territory (Scott: 1; Ray, 2; Dave, 3; Dale, pass)
Other Actions: Take Warfare (1), take Alchemy (1), play Alchemy (1), upgrade lab- Philosophy to Alchemy (1), upgrade lab- Philosophy to Alchemy (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments: I should have upgraded a farm, probably, but opted for two upgraded labs instead. Still had two corruption.

Turn 6 (Ray)
* Irrigation, Monarchy, Theocracy, Code of Laws, Rich Land
** Universitas Carolina, Genghis Khan, Code of Laws, Bread and Circuses
*** Efficient Upgrade, Great Wall, Knights, Cartography
Political Action: Reveal Scientific Breakthrough.
Other Actions: Take Code of Laws (1), play Code of Laws (1), take Irrigation (1), play Irrigation (1), complete St. Peter’s Basilica (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments: Will wait on a government change, opting for Code instead for the moment. Seems Iron was waiting in the wings forever, but finally makes an appearance.

Turn 6 (Dave)
* Monarchy, Theocracy, Rich Land, Universitas Carolina, Genghis Khan
** Code of Laws, Bread and Circuses, Efficient Upgrade, Great Wall
*** Knights, Cartography, Frugality, Iron
Political Action: None
Other Actions: Declare peaceful revolution to Monarchy (1), take Universitas Carolina (1), complete stage of Universitas Carolina (1), destroy Temple- Religion (1), conscript Infantry- Warrior (M); draw one Military card.
Comments: Need a science bonus, so I grabbed Universitas. Running into corruption issues, however, due to lack of unused workers. Need to do something about my farms!

Turn 6 (Dale)
* Theocracy, Rich Land, Genghis Khan, Code of Laws, Bread and Circuses
** Efficient Upgrade, Great Wall, Knights, Cartography
*** Frugality, Iron, Swordsmen, Michelangelo
Political Action: Propose Trade Routes Agreement with Dave (A: Dale; B: Dave; accepted)
Other Actions: Take Code of Laws (1), play Code of Laws (1), increase population (1), upgrade lab- Philosophy to Alchemy (1), take Rich Land (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments: I was hoping to snag Universitas, but Dave got it: looks like I won’t have any Wonders going into Age II.

[IMG]http://dallmartin.weebly.com/uploads/7/3/0/2/730266/4414572.png[/IMG]
Turn 7 (Scott)
* Genghis Khan, Bread and Circuses, Efficient Upgrade, Great Wall, Knights
** Cartography, Frugality, Iron, Swordsmen
*** Michelangelo, Swordsmen, Knights, Revolutionary Idea
Political Action: Cultural Influence (not as much fun as Scientific Breakthough)
Other Actions: Increase population (1), upgrade Farm- Agriculture to Irrigation (1), take Iron (2), play Warfare (1); draw two Military cards.
Comments: Due to corruption last time, I couldn’t afford a temple, so had to make a discontent worker. Fortunately, that event is gone already. Since I couldn’t upgrade a mine, I decided to play Warfare instead of Iron to grab an extra military card and use the military as some defense. I really would have liked to take Cartography, but decided the extra military card was worth passing on it. Maybe I can get Navigation instead.

Turn 7 (Ray)
* Bread and Circuses, Efficient Upgrade, Great Wall, Knights, Cartography
** Frugality, Swordsmen, Michelangelo, Swordsmen,
*** Knights, Revolutionary Idea, Mineral Deposits, Warfare
Political Action: None.
Other Actions: Take Cartography (1), take Cavalry- Knights (1), play Cavalry- Knights (1), conscript Cavalry- Knights (M), play Phalanx (M), take Infantry- Swordsmen (1).
Comments: Almost entirely a Military build-up turn. Gruelling to see Scott’s one card draw being Iron…

Turn 7 (Dave)
* Efficient Upgrade, Great Wall, Frugality, Michelangelo, Swordsmen
** Knights, Revolutionary Idea, Mineral Deposits, Warfare
*** Drama, Theology, Knights, Bread and Circuses
Political Action: Reveal Uncertain Borders: Scott loses a yellow token; Ray gains one.
Other Actions: Complete stage of Universitas Carolina (1), increase population (1), take Efficient Upgrade (1), take Infantry- Swordsmen (1), played Work of Art (1); draw three Military cards.
Comments: Gah….really need to grab some upgrades to buildings…particularly Alchemy, Iron, or Irrigation, but my luck on getting these while affordable hasn’t been good so far. Need to finish Wonder next turn so I can focus on getting my science up.

Turn 7 (Dale)
* Great Wall, Frugality, Michelangelo, Knights, Revolutionary Idea
** Mineral Deposits, Warfare, Drama, Theology
*** Knights, Bread and Circuses, Iron, Ideal Building Site
Political Action: Reveal Good Harvest.
Other Actions: Take Cavalry- Knights (1), play Cavalry- Knights (1), conscript a Cavalry- Knights (M), play Phalanx (M), take Great Wall (1), complete stage of Great Wall (1), increase population (1).
Comments: Moses will be gone by my next turn: I think he served me well. Had to get the military respectable.

[IMG]http://dallmartin.weebly.com/uploads/7/3/0/2/730266/2617014.png[/IMG]
Turn 8 (Scott)
* Frugality, Michelangelo, Revolutionary Idea, Mineral Deposits, Warfare
** Drama, Theology, Knights, Bread and Circuses
*** Iron, Ideal Building Site, Irrigation, Leonardo da Vinci
Political Action: Reveal Reign of Terror (Scott loses one population).
Other Actions: Play Mine- Iron (1), build Temple- Religion (1), upgrade Mine- Bronze to Iron (1), take Michelangelo (1), play Fighting Band (M); draw two Military cards.
Comments: BGG is really high on Michelangelo, but I took him because I had an action left. I am really not appreciating the extra action from the Pyramids like I usually do. It seems like I have often not had a burning need for that extra action. I had to build the temple to keep the happiness up, but I’d rather have had a soldier. Unfortunately, the two events that cost me pop and a token made both impractical.

Turn 8 (Ray)
* Revolutionary Idea, Mineral Deposits, Warfare, Drama, Theology
** Knights, Bread and Circuses, Iron, Ideal Building Site
*** Irrigation, Leonardo da Vinci, Iron, Swordsmen
Age I ends.
Political Actions: None.
Other Actions: Take Iron (2), take Leonardo daVinci (3)
Comments: Opted to grab Iron and Leonardo. Expensive in actions with no resources used. Resources low, but ok due to no consumption/corruption from Good Harvest

Turn 8 (Dave)
* Mineral Deposits, Warfare, Drama, Theology, Knights
** Bread and Circuses, Ideal Building Site, Irrigation, Iron
*** Swordsmen, Engineering Genius, Organized Religion, Navigation
Political Actions: Reveal Developed Territory (Dave, pass; Dale, 2; Scott, pass; Ray, pass)
Other Actions: Homer lost due to end of Age I; complete Universitas Carolinas (1), increase population (1), take Irrigation (2), play Swordsmen (1), upgrade Infantry- Warrior to Swordsmen (M), Infantry- Warrior to Swordsmen (M); draw one Military card.
Comments: Do I take Iron or Irrigation??? Well, I’m thinking that if I get Irrigation and can just get enough food going, I can consistently increase my population. I should be able to pick up Coal soon now that Age II is here…of course, if I don’t get Coal, I may be screwed.

Turn 8 (Dale)
* Warfare, Drama, Theology, Knights, Bread and Circuses
** Ideal Building Site, Iron, Swordsmen, Engineering Genius
*** Organized Religion, Navigation, Cavalrymen, Napoleon Bonaparte
Political Action: None.
Other Actions: Moses lost due to end of Age I; conscript Cavalry- Knight (M), take Warfare (1), play Warfare (1), construct stage of Great Wall (1), take Iron (2); draw two Military cards.
Comments: Winning the colony with only a bid of two surprised me. I still need to upgrade my farms and mines, though. I also need to get some more Culture produced.

[IMG]http://dallmartin.weebly.com/uploads/7/3/0/2/730266/6005291.png[/IMG]
So ends a full round of turns and the end of Age I. What will Age II bring? Stay tuned for the next chapter...

Thread: POLL: Have you received your TtA Fix Pack?

jearles — 2008-05-15T10:34:05+00:00

Oh look, it's another poll. :D

[poll=435]

Thread: Re: Optional Rule - No Consecutive Attacks

HuckmanT — 2008-05-15T09:59:58+00:00

DarrellKH wrote:
I would rather see the weakest player get punished out of the realities of war, than the strongest player get protected by the fantasies of a rule.

Very nice. I like this quote and I might just steal it someday... thanks!

Thread: Re: FIX KITS for TtA

cornjob — 2008-05-15T09:53:01+00:00

I got the nice email back letting me know I'd been added to the list. I'm still waiting for my fix pack, but haven't tried contacting them again. I'll try patience a bit longer, and then see if a reminder is needed.

Thread: Re: FIX KITS for TtA

sshawmd — 2008-05-15T09:44:08+00:00

Emailed Keith personally (here, after being "on the list" since the dreaded thread) and didnt receive anything for about 2 weeks. So I emailed the company and proceeded to receive two fix packs in as many days.

Thread: Re: FIX KITS for TtA

BodhiWolff — 2008-05-15T09:26:15+00:00

Sent him a geekmail ages ago, when the idea of a fix-kit was first raised. He responded promptly. My fix-kit quietly arrived in the mail weeks ago.

I suggest you send him a geekmail and request a response, if you didn't get any actual response to your original inquiry.

Thread: Re: FIX KITS for TtA

flyinghogfish — 2008-05-15T09:15:53+00:00

PM'd Keith here, waited a couple or three weeks, fix pack arrived. No problem - I was impressed with it getting to the UK so quickly. Very pleased with the customer service - stick with it folks, I'm sure it'll get sorted OK.

Thread: Re: FIX KITS for TtA

sefton — 2008-05-15T09:09:00+00:00

Try here:
[url]http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/308931[/url]

Thread: Re: FIX KITS for TtA

Palpatine — 2008-05-15T08:58:15+00:00

I haven't heard from him yet, and have yet to receive the fix kit that I am on the list for. Hopefully soon.

Thread: Re: New Printing?

ExcitingJeff — 2008-05-15T08:49:46+00:00

Anybody?

Thread: Re: FIX KITS for TtA

qzhdad — 2008-05-15T08:17:50+00:00

Reedo wrote:
Anyone get a fix kit?

How?

I sent an email to Keithblume2 on April 23rd (and a follow-up today), but have heard and seen nothing.

Advice?

Thanks,

Jeremy

I sent him a note here, requesting four (I was the area orderer), he confirmed, then I received one. No answer to my request for the other three.

Thread: FIX KITS for TtA

Reedo — 2008-05-15T08:11:42+00:00

Anyone get a fix kit?

How?

I sent an email to Keithblume2 on April 23rd (and a follow-up today), but have heard and seen nothing.

Advice?

Thanks,

Jeremy

Thread: Re: Through the Ages Card FAQ/Clarifications

DaviddesJ — 2008-05-15T07:53:01+00:00

Odinsday wrote:
I need to review the rules, but I thought any population loss was a move to the Pop bank. Losing a worker to the Unused worker pool doesn't lower your population, it merely removes the building.

Border Conflict says "lose one urban building, farm, or mine". It doesn't say anything about losing population. So why would it go to the bank? The token clearly goes to the unused worker pool.

Thread: Re: Through the Ages Card FAQ/Clarifications

Odinsday — 2008-05-15T07:49:27+00:00

Border Conflict is to unused worker pool as are all population or building losses, Sacrificing causes units to go back to the population bank.

I need to review the rules, but I thought any population loss was a move to the Pop bank. Losing a worker to the Unused worker pool doesn't lower your population, it merely removes the building.

(edited to make it clear what was my content).

Thread: Re: Hanging Gardens, St. Peter's Basilica and Michelangelo combined

KompaNanzi — 2008-05-15T06:49:56+00:00

jdludlow wrote:

This is covered on the back of the rulebook. The Basilica doubles the effect of Michelangelo. The Hanging Gardens counts for 4 happy faces in this case.

Yep, now I see it, thanks. Somehow we couldn't find that last Monday.

Thread: Re: Through the Ages Card FAQ/Clarifications

Gamer_Dog — 2008-05-15T04:18:20+00:00

Yes, it's good to have them all in one place.

Border Conflict is to unused worker pool as are all population or building losses. Sacrificing causes units to go back to the population bank.

Robespierre's ability, which reverses civil/military actions for revolution, can be used with breakthrough.

Raid's destroy buildings, so yellow tokens go to the unused worker box.

The "if and only if" when losing population is correct --this is explicit in the rules.

Thread: Re: Hanging Gardens, St. Peter's Basilica and Michelangelo combined

EvanMinn — 2008-05-15T03:47:48+00:00

jdludlow wrote:

This is covered on the back of the rulebook. The Basilica doubles the effect of Michelangelo. The Hanging Gardens counts for 4 happy faces in this case.

As seen here:

[ImageID=333053 original]

Thread: Re: Optional Rule - No Consecutive Attacks

JGRno5 — 2008-05-15T03:37:19+00:00

Other thoughts...

Some players do not like games where war is a possibility. Frankly, I find these games not to my liking, but to each his own. However, rules that protect a player who has neglected his military are likely to turn the game into a "run for victory points". If that is how you like to play, see suggestion #2 below.

I would offer these recommendations as a way to tone down the military flavor of the game without totalling eliminating the military element.

1 - Do NOT impose an artificial "one attack per round" rule.

2 - Reduce the number of aggression / war cards in the decks (ie, reduce the probability of drawing an attack card.) In the extreme case, all attack cards could be removed (STRONGLY DISCOURAGED).

3 - Increase the number of military actions required to use an attack card. For example, attack cards cost one extra military action to employ.

4 - All Defense cards are +1. Thus, Age I defense cards go from +2 to +3.

5 - Give the defender a +1 per Age against aggressions. Thus, in Age II, all defenders get +2 vs. aggressions. A similar bonus could be awarded to the defender if he LOSES a war (reducing his losses, but not turning a loss in to a victory).

Thread: Re: Hanging Gardens, St. Peter's Basilica and Michelangelo combined

tirelli — 2008-05-15T03:30:13+00:00

I don't have the rules/faq with me, but I remember we had the same question when we played, we read the FAQ (I think) but may have been the rules, and it was stated there this exactly scenario. The answer was 4.

Look at the Hanging Gardens, Basilica and Michelangelo cards description in the rules and/or FAQ and you will find.

Thread: Re: Hanging Gardens, St. Peter's Basilica and Michelangelo combined

Capoeirista — 2008-05-15T03:25:54+00:00

4

Each of the Hanging Gardens faces counts twice. Notice there is not restriction on when they count twice, for example, it doesn't say "counts twice for the purpose of x". So when you count the faces for Mic, you count each face on the Hanging Gardens twice.

Thread: Re: Hanging Gardens, St. Peter's Basilica and Michelangelo combined

jdludlow — 2008-05-15T03:25:40+00:00

KompaNanzi wrote:
I don't seem to find a definite and official answer to this in the threads:

- Hanging Gardens has 2 happy faces,
- Basilica says "each of your happy faces counts twice",
- Michelangelo says "your ... and wonders produce an extra CP for each of their happy faces.

Now how many CP do you get for this combination if you have no temples or theaters?

4, because Hanging Gardens happy faces are doubled by Basilica before Michelangelo kicks in, or 2 because Hanging Gardens has only 2 happy faces and they only count twice for keeping your population from uprising?
I thought 4, but my [-]oppo[/-] fellow players ruled only 2.

This is covered on the back of the rulebook. The Basilica doubles the effect of Michelangelo. The Hanging Gardens counts for 4 happy faces in this case.

Thread: Re: Hanging Gardens, St. Peter's Basilica and Michelangelo combined

JGRno5 — 2008-05-15T03:24:19+00:00

4 has to be the correct answer.

Otherwise, what is the point of the Basilica? If it doubles happy faces for purposes of keeping your people in-line, it doubles the happy faces. Period.

The Basilica combines with Joan of Arc in like fashion.

Thread: Re: Hanging Gardens, St. Peter's Basilica and Michelangelo combined

hobnob — 2008-05-15T03:15:21+00:00

I don't really know, but spontaneously, I'd say two.

Thread: Re: Hanging Gardens, St. Peter's Basilica and Michelangelo combined

qzhdad — 2008-05-15T03:13:45+00:00

I think 4, two for Hanging Gardens, two for Basilica.

Thread: Hanging Gardens, St. Peter's Basilica and Michelangelo combined

KompaNanzi — 2008-05-15T01:35:21+00:00

I don't seem to find a definite and official answer to this in the threads:

- Hanging Gardens has 2 happy faces,
- Basilica says "each of your happy faces counts twice",
- Michelangelo says "your ... and wonders produce an extra CP for each of their happy faces.

Now how many CP do you get for this combination if you have no temples or theaters?

4, because Hanging Gardens happy faces are doubled by Basilica before Michelangelo kicks in, or 2 because Hanging Gardens has only 2 happy faces and they only count twice for keeping your population from uprising?
I thought 4, but my [-]oppo[/-] fellow players ruled only 2.

Thread: Re: Optional Rule - No Consecutive Attacks

DarrellKH — 2008-05-15T11:01:57+00:00

I would rather see the weakest player get punished out of the realities of war, than the strongest player get protected by the fantasies of a rule.

Thread: 3player game with exciting finish

Lord Orpon — 2008-05-15T10:44:12+00:00

Hi. I've never posted here before but I felt compelled to share my triumph of last night with you fine people.

Yesterday we played a 3 player game for the first time, full version. I started the game dead last in culture as I had caesar as my leader and my friends chose Homer and Aristotle respectively. In my last game I ran out of techpoints really early so I decided to avoid this by drawing ideal building site and building a lab first thing in turn 2.

This turned out to be a brilliant move as it meant I could later change to theocracy without sacrificing a turn. During age I i fell farther and farther behind the culture leader as she netted 4 per turn, whilst I kept constant at 2. My economy was growing faster than the other two though so I wasn't worried.

In age 2 I found that I was no longer last in culture as my strong military, backed by a Napoleon-led conquistador army, meant that I had asolid advantage in seeding events, practically netting me 1-2 culture extra per turn. The real killer was when I built the Eiffel tower though. I built it in 2 turns, without using masonry or architechture, and now I was ahead in culture by mid age III.

The game wasn't decided until the last two turns though. In the scond to last round Annie, our starting player upgraded and built up to three computer labs, more than doubling her culture in conjuction with game designer. Suddenly she was ahead again, and pulling away! I was desperate and so I, moving second, launched a raid to burn her labs and restore my lead. My awesome army, led by Napoleon, launched itself and sacrificed every unit and still I couldn't burn them down. She had 3(!) defense cards and didn't even lose a single unit.

I now had no army and decided to use my last resources to build a modern infantry, with bonuses I now had a pitiful 9 strenght...

When our last player had his turn I was ripe for the picking, but he made a critical error, he thought we had more turns left and so he launched a holy war against player 1 thinking she was due to fall since she couldn't possibly have any defense cards left. The war turned out to be almost moot since he won by 5 strength points, resulting a measly 3 point swing and 1 token lost.

After his turn age III ended and Napoleon died, as well as all of us losing 2 yellow tokens. This put player 1 in dire straits, she now had happiness issues and no unused workers so she disbanded most of her farms and built age A temples instead, this would later turn out to be significant...

I was now up and I knew that my military was shot but since I was desperate for points I seeded an event and hoped for the best. Disaster! Historic territory came up for 11 instant points and I had no military. Fotunately for me the other 2 players goaded each other and in the end player 1 sacrificed her entire army to get the colony, she now had 0 strenght.

In the end she was in the lead by these 11 points as we drew the bonus events. A warm glow spread in my belly as I saw first the impact of strenght card came up, netting 7 and her 0 points. Then I knew I had it when impact of farming, which I had seeded, came up and she had just disbanded her farms! In the end I won by 5 points. A most satisfying win.

Thread: Re: Corruption mentions on event cards.

DaviddesJ — 2008-05-15T07:14:12+00:00

curtc wrote:
This sure came across that way to me:
DaviddesJ wrote:
...you have to apply your own common sense. If you have any.

I intended the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_you]Generic you[/url]. I didn't mean to refer to any poster in this thread. I'm sorry for not making that clear.

Thread: Re: Corruption mentions on event cards.

curtc — 2008-05-15T06:54:33+00:00

DaviddesJ wrote:
I don't understand that attitude either. I hope I don't encounter it.
This sure came across that way to me:
DaviddesJ wrote:
...you have to apply your own common sense. If you have any.

Thread: Re: Corruption mentions on event cards.

DaviddesJ — 2008-05-15T06:46:10+00:00

curtc wrote:
I've never understood the attitude that when people are asking rules questions it's because they're either dumb or intentionally trying to stir the pot for argument's sake.

I don't understand that attitude either. I hope I don't encounter it.

Thread: Re: Kremlin subtract before or after limiting to eight?

RustanR — 2008-05-15T06:23:02+00:00

Eight, calculate the sum and put the marker on the correct spot. The marker is only for easy overview.

Thread: Re: Michelangelo bonus points question

jdludlow — 2008-05-15T03:26:04+00:00

qzhdad wrote:
Can Michelangelo score more than eight points per turn for happy faces?
I understand that only eight can be marked, but does Michelangelo score for the overage?

He can score more than 8. The chart stops at 8, but it also says "8+". This is one of those cases where the rulebook is vague enough in its definitions that you could rules-lawyer it to be capped at 8, but I really don't think that it was intended to be that way.

Does the Kremlin cancel happy faces for Michelangelo scoring?
Example
A civilization has seven happy faces and the Kremlin, does Michelangelo score seven or five?

We play that it's seven, but I haven't ever seen any official word on this. The closest that I've found to an answer is [url=http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1435982#1435982]here.[/url]

Thread: Re: Corruption mentions on event cards.

curtc — 2008-05-15T01:43:16+00:00

I've never understood the attitude that when people are asking rules questions it's because they're either dumb or intentionally trying to stir the pot for argument's sake. I've been accused of this before as well, and I gotta say it comes across as pretty irritating and closed-minded.

Thread: Kremlin subtract before or after limiting to eight?

qzhdad — 2008-05-14T09:45:28+00:00

If a player has ten or more happy faces and the Kremlin does he have eight happy faces or six?

Pretty sure it's the former, but would like confirmation.

Thread: Re: Michelangelo bonus points question

qzhdad — 2008-05-14T09:39:09+00:00

Can Michelangelo score more than eight points per turn for happy faces?
I understand that only eight can be marked, but does Michelangelo score for the overage?

Does the Kremlin cancel happy faces for Michelangelo scoring?
Example
A civilization has seven happy faces and the Kremlin, does Michelangelo score seven or five?

Thread: Re: Optional Rule - No Consecutive Attacks

cornjob — 2008-05-14T09:15:20+00:00

This rule is there to protect the weak. We've found that there is an incentive to gang up on the weaker player with successive aggressions, etc, as long as there is something to be plundered. It can be frustrating if that weakest player is you.

One could argue that its the consequences of poor choices, and that there is an infrastructure benefit by not paying adequate resources into military. I tend to agree with that. Still, the more we play, the more likely it becomes that a player is forced to withdraw before the game ends.

I think the game is better where that is the consequence, although it puts more pressure on military build-up....more than I'd like to see. But artificially trying to limit the attacks either benefits a leader that doesn't need benefits, or creates a bit of a gamey situation where the trailing player is protected despite poor development.

Thread: Re: Iron - the critical technology?

Gamer_Dog — 2008-05-14T08:47:38+00:00

DaviddesJ wrote:
Gamer_Dog wrote:
This is incorrect.

Your opinion is different from my opinion. That doesn't make my opinion "incorrect".

Seemed you made a claim which I refuted. If it's opinion, that's fine --reasonable players will differ.

Perhaps we should start smack-talking and see who's coming to Origins? Might be fun to have a friendly smackdown on our strategies since so many of us wonder if our local games have groupthink.

I registered a couple days ago so I'm starting to look forward to it.

Thread: Re: Optional Rule - No Consecutive Attacks

aschvey — 2008-05-14T07:46:21+00:00

On balance I agree. While I can imagine a scenario where such a rule would be good, I think in general it does substantially more harm than good.

Thread: Re: Iron - the critical technology?

DaviddesJ — 2008-05-14T07:23:57+00:00

Gamer_Dog wrote:
This is incorrect.

Your opinion is different from my opinion. That doesn't make my opinion "incorrect".

Thread: Re: My Fix Pack Arrived Today

flyinghogfish — 2008-05-14T07:17:00+00:00

Wahoo! My pack arrived today, and also featured a FRED Distribution sticker and a British stamp. Postmark says Greenford/Windsor.

Actually not too bothered what varied way it made its way here (though might be interested if it's a good story), just glad to have me extra bits.

Wowzah!

Actually, now I've got the stickers, don't know if I want to stick 'em on - kind of novel having a knackered version, and if they fix it with a re-print it might be worth hanging onto... no, KIDDING! I'd rather have a game that works - thanks to all involved in getting the Fix Pack to me - good job!

Thread: Re: Optional Rule - No Consecutive Attacks

JGRno5 — 2008-05-14T07:12:00+00:00

I agree--terrible rule, terrible idea.

After a few plays, it will be clear that military cannot be safely ignored. While it is not necessary to be the strongest, it is prudent to have a competitive strength.

Thread: Re: Iron - the critical technology?

Gamer_Dog — 2008-05-14T05:57:03+00:00

DaviddesJ wrote:
Iron or Coal is essential

This is incorrect.

DaviddesJ wrote:

If you really think you can win the whole game with three or four bronze mines and no other production, good luck with that.

Done it several times, thanks, and I'm sure others have won without Iron or Coal as well.

Not only that, about a third of games, SOMEONE is going to be in that position by the very nature of the available cards being less than the number of players (3 and 4 player games anyway, which I prefer, and assuming the others deny when the draw is unfavorable.)

Just so it's not missed again, my point is this: no one wants to stick with Age A tech, whether it's farms, government, mines, or anything else. However, in some games, for whatever reason, you'll be stuck with a basic tech and have to make do. The game isn't over simply because you didn't get iron or coal. TtA certainly wouldn't be top-10 here if such a common draw ended the game.

Just a simple example, take First Space Flight, a big, 16 resource, Age III wonder. If you pick up Age III Engineering Genius and Mineral Deposits, you only need 7 resources to complete it. And you're throwing in the towel? This is especially workable if you postpone building it, are not the first player, and get a final round of the game in Age IV.

Heck, with Ideal Building site, Engineering, and Efficient Upgrade, you could potentially build an 11 resource building without using any resources at all.

The great thing about this game IMO is the many ways to work around difficulties, and the relatively short time-frame you have in each age to get only the highest priority/opportunistic goals accomplished. That and kicking the crap out of someone when your military rocks.

Thread: Re: Optional Rule - No Consecutive Attacks

Larry Levy — 2008-05-14T05:44:58+00:00

Terrible rule. Often, the only way to bring down a leader IS to attack him on consecutive turns. He can usually defend against the first attack by sacrificing units, then rebuild them during his turn. Only by consecutive attacks can you actually bloody his nose. It sounds like that's what happened in your game, Aram.

Thread: Re: My Fix Pack Arrived Today

chomama — 2008-05-14T04:52:23+00:00

sauceybugger wrote:
Any one down under got their fix pack???
S.B.

Nope, not yet .. waiting waiting ...

Thread: Re: Optional Rule - No Consecutive Attacks

qzhdad — 2008-05-14T04:41:11+00:00

One concern that we had was that it meant that only one person could "harvest" from the weak player. While it will prevent the weak player from being continually hit, it potentially gives all the benefits to a single player instead of spreading the wealth.

Thread: Optional Rule - No Consecutive Attacks

aschvey — 2008-05-14T04:01:21+00:00

I'm wondering what kinds experiences people have had using the optional no consecutive attacks rule described in the rulebook. That's the rule that in 3- and 4-player games, two players cannot attack the same person before that person's had another turn. It's supposed to prevent pile-ons from occurring. I've played the normal way several times but played with the optional rule in my last game -- and the person who would have been attacked consecutively but for the rule ended up winning.

Thread: Re: Iron - the critical technology?

Armadi — 2008-05-14T03:37:29+00:00

The hardest things to upgrade in this game are your food and resource production (there are the fewest cards available for these- food is actually harder to find in game than ore). I believe you can get by with less food than less resources. As such, iron/coal tech are much more valuable than other upgrades.