Game: Samurai Lords: The Wars of Feudal Japan

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

Gyges — 2008-11-20T21:01:50+00:00

I would definitely pre-order with all scenarios; I would only probably pre-order with a scaled-down scenario set. I would pay extra for mounted boards, but would not insist on it.

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

ScottH — 2008-11-20T20:49:05+00:00

I just subscribed to the thread, then I get a Geekmail everytime someone adds to it.
So, no, you are not the only one.
ScottH.

newuser wrote:
(Am I the only one crazy enough to check this thread and CSW every couple of hours just in case a further announcement is made? Guess I'm not quite over SL getting the ax the first time.)

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

newuser — 2008-11-20T18:33:01+00:00

(Am I the only one crazy enough to check this thread and CSW every couple of hours just in case a further announcement is made? Guess I'm not quite over SL getting the ax the first time.)

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

newuser — 2008-11-19T17:30:14+00:00

adamant wrote:
I am shying away from a cheap production now...

Probably a smart choice. Production quality here reflects back on the entire series of MMP (and more specifically, IGS) games.

adamant wrote:
Another option that I am leaning towards is cutting the game down a bit.

The variety (and flexibility) across various scenarios was a really big draw for this game IMO.

If the game gets cut down to 6 scenarios, what would be the focus? For me, smaller scenarios (1-4 people) are most likely to get played... but the negotiation and diplomacy from large multi-player scenarios seems to be the real draw of the game. Hopefully we'd get a few of both types?

If a slimmed down Samurai Lords is the best way to get the game on the market then I'd still preorder. It's very unlikely that I would buy an expansion, however.

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

tedhkim — 2008-11-19T17:19:49+00:00

I am all for Samurai Lords in English.

There are lots of non-historical games which use the period as background, but this seems to be the ONLY (well that I know about) strategic level treatment which is a comprehensive historical wargame of this period.

At least this is what I was thinking in this geeklist:
http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/34110

Losing the mounted map is okay, making the rules/play-aids B&W and not glossy is okay too, but I think I would want to know more about cutting the scenarios back. I guess I don't really understand the scope of the changes proposed there.

If it's just removing some alternate history scenarios or multi-player variants for more than 8 people, that does not sound too bad. But if it's cutting back on the history and making it not the comprehensive treatment that it is reputed to be, then I am not in favor it.

I have never played this game, but would it be ruined if counters were substituted for the cards? That might be a big cost savings. If cards are essential, so be it, and keep them. If cards are included, don't make them cheap quality so they wear out easily, though maybe you could use smaller cards to reduce cost? I don't know if that means that some text has to move off the cards and into the rulebook notes on the cards. But if it saves substantial money then it might be worth doing.

BTW, if it's hard to get the base game up to the pre-pub numbers, I think an expansion is even less likely to happen. Now on the other hand, maybe you should look at keeping all the counters/cards/etc. in the game and just publishing a downloadable rules supplement with expansion scenarios. I am not in favor of trying to push any expansion material into a OPS issue or into the SPECIAL ISSUE. OPS SI#1 pretty much turned out to be as expensive as a boxed game.

EDIT: discuss proposed cost/scope changes

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

djflippy — 2008-11-19T16:01:47+00:00

AWESOMESAWSE!

I have the Japanese version and it is outstanding. I would buy the new version, just to play it with your changes. I will pay whatever price it takes to get it shipped to me. Personally, I would prefer to have the best components possible, even though I own the original, but again whatever marketing strategy you think will make it hit the prepub numbers, I am in favor of. Since it didn't hit the number before, I think it makes sense to lower the number needed to publish, because the people who want it seem to be rabid fans, but there weren't enough of us to get it done before.

Thanks for considering this again,

.k

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

adamant — 2008-11-19T15:58:25+00:00

Another option that I am leaning towards is cutting the game down a bit. To just the Sengoku period for example...cuts the rules and counters way down and makes this Most Dangerous Time sized. If people like it, we can talk an expansion later...down from 30+ scenarios to maybe 6...

Now the actual cost of the full game would be higher (since you have to buy both to get what you would have gotten with one) and to be frank, I think its comprehensiveness is the best part of the game....but you have to do what you have to do...

I am shying away from a cheap production now...getting it through prepub is only half the battle. It has to sell afterwards and an el cheapo production is great until you get the final result in your hands and have to play using it. Doubt MMP would be willing to suffer a general product quality decline anyway.

Losing the hard maps is an easy thing to lose (although it doesn't add as much as you might think)...

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

chansen2794 — 2008-11-19T15:12:45+00:00

I did not preorder this before and always regretted it. So I would gladly preorder this time.

Personally, mounted map boards mean nothing to me and I actually prefer paper. Warriors of God looks great and plays great on a paper map. If it helps drop the cost, by all means, lose the mounted map board.

I think that the color rulebook and color charts would be nice to keep. Again, using Warriors of God as a reference, the beautiful charts and rulebook added a lot to that game.

Cost is a bit of a sticky point. I certainly understand why this one costs more and am willing to pay, but for people who aren't already excited for this, $75 or $100 makes it harder to pull the trigger. I think the slow (or at least much slower than I'd like to see) growth of Kingdom of Heaven: The Crusader States 1097-1291 AD (prepub priced at $60) is an example of this. Tide at Sunrise: The Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905, Panzerblitz: Hill of Death, and A Victory Denied are all at prepub prices of $30 or less. It's a lot easier to commit to that than to something 2x or 3x as much, especially for casual wargamers.

That being said, this game did achieve at least 434 preorders before at the $75 price tag so obviously a fair amount of people were willing to pay. Still, if the price could be lowered a bit (by losing the mounted map or... I hesitate to say this... the color rulebook, that might help push it over the edge.

Anyway, as I said before, I did not preorder the first time but will gladly do so now given the chance so you've got at least +1 that you didn't have before.

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

newuser — 2008-11-19T15:02:31+00:00

wwscrispin wrote:
... Having said that, unless something changes I am not sure that the number of fence sitters who would now preorder is enough to get it over the top in a short period of time.

I'm kind of torn on that point.

I think that a lot of people still really want the game in English and would be willing to preorder. Additionally, much of the shilling and publicity to make people aware of the game has already taken place - didn't it have almost 500 preorders before being removed?

The trick will be getting word out that preorders are available again, and then hoping that not too many people have hard feelings about it getting pulled last time.

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

wwscrispin — 2008-11-19T14:51:35+00:00

Do you think putting it up after A most Dangerous Time has been out a few months would help it?

I preordered and would do so again. I also am sure that this game would have made the cut if it had been left on the list long enough. Having said that, unless something changes I am not sure that the number of fence sitters who would now preorder is enough to get it over the top in a short period of time.

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

newuser — 2008-11-19T14:35:57+00:00

I would preorder.

Like many people, I am more price sensitve now than a year ago... $100 would be my absolute maximum price, and keeping it at $90 (or under) would be appreciated.

I agree with Mateusz Wilk - Warriors of God had wonderful production values and would be a nice ideal to shoot for. But just seeing the game printed in English is the most important factor for me.

Two silly questions, since I'm dreaming now:

(1) If you raise the price and drop the required number of preorders, would it be possible to reinstate features like color printing and/or mounted board depending on how many preorders are reached? Sort of a sliding scale where (for example) 400 orders gets the game published, 450 would upgrade to color printing, and 530 would mean mounted boards. Or do those decisions need to be made up front?

(2) If forced to cut back on quality, is it possible to include black & white printing in the game but offer color PDFs online to reduce MMP's printing costs? This might not be worth the time and effort, if it would require more work to redesign the rulebook and player aids.

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

malloc — 2008-11-19T14:00:06+00:00

Get it back and I will do what I can. At the very least this is 1 pre-order, but expect a full pimping on fortressat.

This game should have been made and it is a shame it got canceled.

-M

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

ArikYa — 2008-11-19T13:06:24+00:00

I'll be very happy if this goes on preorder again. I'm still not sure about A Most Dangerous Time, but will get Samurai Lords.

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

wilk — 2008-11-19T12:55:13+00:00

Well, I personally have never cared much for mounted boards and I think that I'm not the only wargamer to be able to do without them. Other than that, I love the coloured rulebooks from MMP, so I would be inclined to keep it that way, but if dropping it could help getting the game published, I think the choice would be obvious. On the whole, as far as the components are concerned, I think that Warriors of God is a gorgeous game and if it were possible to keep up this editorial level it would be very cool.
As to the price/number of required orders ratio - I think that it would be reasonable to take into account just how close SamLords were to be published in the previous attempt and assume that it will be difficult to get many more orders than the final number before they were taken down.

Edited for spelling.

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

Rompcat — 2008-11-19T12:32:26+00:00

I cannot possibly overstate how happy it makes me that you are reaching back and pulling Samurai Lords -- at least mentally -- back to the front!

I was never more motivated to pre-order something, and even after it was cancelled I couldn't bring myself to take it off my wishlist.

I won't get my hopes up too much, but I'm willing to do my part!

KJ

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

adamant — 2008-11-19T11:56:21+00:00

Another thing I need to mull over - and this is if I can get the game back at all - is how to prepub it...

I can delete as much as I can to get the cost lower (lose the hard maps, color rulebook, color charts etc)...

Also can raise the price a bit to get a smaller prepub number...so instead of $70 for 550, $100 for 385 or something...I know no one wants to pay more but paying more might be better than never getting it at all? It is a "loaded" game with lots of stuff...

Opinions on this as well?

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

wilk — 2008-11-19T11:46:31+00:00

Adam, this is great news!

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

ScottH — 2008-11-19T11:43:01+00:00

I'll preorder, again.
Tell me where and when.

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

nnf1 — 2008-11-19T11:37:21+00:00

Go for it.

Thread: Re: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

ibn_ul_khattab — 2008-11-19T11:30:24+00:00

I think it is worth it Adam. I'd definitely pre-order, (shamefully I didn't last time). I'd also help pimp it on the podcast , it is definitely worth, resurrecting I think.

Thread: Maybe, maybe, maybe...is SamLords coming back?

adamant — 2008-11-19T11:20:42+00:00

Hey Guys,

I am working hard to get the rights back for this one as so many people have requested it. Please don't assume it is done as it is still a long shot - but I am working on it as this one is most often missed.

If I get it, it will be for a short period - say 6 months on prepub. It makes it or it doesn't. I will do a daily countdown on it to make sure this is as well known as possible. A grassroots effort by as many of you as possible would be great too to get the word out to those that may not frequent CSW or this specific folder.

Just floating the idea here - is it too much water under the bridge? Would you guys forgive and forget and order this wonderful game? I do want to make it clear that this isn't the same game. I have some streamlining work I have done and my version is a little different from the published Japanese version.

Anyway, would you order it now?

Looking for feedback on whether this is worth doing or not?

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

Shad — 2008-08-25T14:43:06+00:00

Dear Samurai Lords,

It's been almost a year since you stopped returning my calls. I guess you decided I wasn't good enough for you?

I do see other women now, I met a lady named Panzer Grenadier down at the pub and we've been out on a few dates... but I miss you.

I think about you less often now than I once did, but I doubt I'll ever be able to completely forget you.

Just wanted to say hi I suppose...

-Shad

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords to be played at KublaCon, San Francisco, Memorial Day Weekend, 2008

tomg — 2008-03-07T18:23:34+00:00

Actually the game is Feudal Lord by Sunset Games, using the English translation of the rules found here on BBG. In effect though this is what Samurai Lords would have been if then had been allowed to publish it.

I'll be taking up to 8 players. I ran it Dundracon this Feb. , 2008 and all had a good time.

Thread: Samurai Lords to be played at KublaCon, San Francisco, Memorial Day Weekend, 2008

smeelbo — 2008-03-07T04:08:01+00:00

Tom Granvold, who hosted our game of Samurai Lords last DunDraCon, will apparently by hosting another game this coming KublaCon! Using the English Translation guide, we were able to play. Even though I got positively slaughtered, I look forward to the next time.

"Good Smeelbo always helps!

Thread: Re: translation for Feudal Lord available at CSW

Uesugi Kenshin — 2008-02-22T08:17:12+00:00

How about we just get the damn game made in English finally. Screw Multiman Publishing, I'll foot the bill myself...

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

Fulminata — 2008-02-16T18:56:13+00:00

izack wrote:
oh man here i was still wondering when it would be published. Why didn't MMP email us personally to let us know it was cancelled? I checked a few mins ago and my preorder info for Samurai Lords was still up.

I just checked as well because of a recent change in address. It would have been good form to email everyone who pre-ordered of the cancellation. I don't like to follow pre-release info on games because I don't want to get all excited about a game until I actually have a chance to play it.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

izack — 2008-01-17T07:11:46+00:00

oh man here i was still wondering when it would be published. Why didn't MMP email us personally to let us know it was cancelled? I checked a few mins ago and my preorder info for Samurai Lords was still up. AMDT hitting the mark is small consolation, it looks like a weaker game imo, plus its only 2 players

I too preordered the other games I have on my preorder only because Samurai Lords was on preorder. I wonder if there's still any chance for a English priniting. Do i really have to get the Japanese printing while i can? Getting anyone to play the English printing would have been difficult, Japanese print near impossible ...

To think I preordered MMP's 2 feudal japan themed games over GMT's Sekigahara, think i'll cancel my preorders with MMP.

Add this fiasco to Upfront 2000 (now Upfront 2XXX) and my opinion of MMP as a game company has diminished

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

cloudyday — 2007-12-05T19:06:38+00:00

I only just found out about this game through doing a geeklist search for samurai-themed games. It's a shame, because I would have immediately pre-ordered it if it were still avaliable to do so. I love games themed from the feudal Japan era and samurai themes. I'm mainly interested in ancient wargaming, and though the era of feudal Japan isn't ancient, I still group it in within that area of interest (feudal/ancient). The ratio of modern warfare to feudal/ancient warfare games seems very much askew to me (I am new to heavy wargaming, but I've already noticed this). Though it does seem MMP has a few to offer, this one appeals (or rather, would have appealed) to me most. Maybe Kingdom of Heaven and Warriors of God will be some decent feudal/ancient offerings.

A Most Dangerous Time seems interesting, but I really would have liked to see Samurai Lords released even more. And it doesn't seem there are any feudal/ancient games that are even currently in print by MMP, only a few sitting in the pre-order section. Is it really the case that there is never enough support for these games? GMT currently has several in print, waiting to print, and for pre-order (I've been considering Chandragupta).

It really is a shame.

Thread: Re: translation for Feudal Lord available at CSW

killerkatanas — 2007-11-14T02:44:44+00:00

Hi Matt,

It's a shame that the game was cancelled. I was really looking forward to being able to use the game as a campaign driver for my miniatures game Killer Katanas. I still have my old copy of Feudal Lord, but the English version would have been easier to use obviously.

Thanks for the rules translation. However, I can't seem to find the card translations you mentioned. Do you intend to post them?

Regards,

Brian Bradford

Image

West2 — 2007-10-24T17:10:25+00:00

475 samurai leaders...

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

martimer — 2007-10-20T11:03:07+00:00

Sunset Games (a Japanese game company) has reclaimed the rights.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

bulldozers — 2007-10-20T02:09:58+00:00

Would be great if another publisher could pick it up.

GMT?, Z-Man?, Valley?

*whisper: If you build it, they will come...*

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

Scoobysnacks — 2007-10-19T04:03:40+00:00

Why?

They are the only makers of official ASL. 4 of the 9 are on that list and all are in production. This is a flame war topic on most sites dealing with games not including this one.

Three more are Gamers, where else do you get those? Case Blue hit its number a couple months ago after about a week on the list, so no company would turn around that fast.

The others, MMP is just slow, probably part of why they have issues hitting numbers in the first place on some games. They produce good wargames, so most fans of MMP fall into one of the first two reasons. IGS is new and slowly branching out, the IGS line is the exception to the slow turnaround though.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

comat0se — 2007-10-18T01:10:49+00:00

RPardoe wrote:
comat0se wrote:
BTW, we should get together and translate the rules into english as a group project.

Why?
They have already been released.

Ok... Then nevermind.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

RPardoe — 2007-10-18T01:06:44+00:00

comat0se wrote:
BTW, we should get together and translate the rules into english as a group project.

Why?

They have already been released.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

comat0se — 2007-10-18T00:48:09+00:00

I might as well throw my 2 cents in. I had been following this game and reading about it for awhile... It seemed to have a massive scope, and I'd learn about a lot of historical figures along the way. I was getting ready to place the preorder and started looking around the MMP website and reading more about the preorder process. I noticed all kinds of games that were WAY (Two times or more) over the preorder number and still not printed. That didn't exactly instill faith in the process, and so I held off and debated a while more.

Now with the sudden removal of the game altogether... I'll never preorder a game from MMP. Why should I? I give you the guarantee that I'll buy a game from you, and then nothing happens even when it reaches the magic number. What guarantees do I have from MMP... the game might suck for all I know. That is if it even gets published ever. All we get is third hand reviews of a beta-test of a preproduction game, some computer generated images, and a vague sense of the rules. Then MMP pulls it without warning... No timelines = FAIL. This preorder business is lame. Why do you guys put up with it?

Devil's Cauldron
Retail Price: $175.00 Pre-Order Price: $131.25
Total Pre-Orders: 1043 Pre-Orders Needed: 490

Valor of the Guards
Retail Price: $65.00 Pre-Order Price: $48.75
Total Pre-Orders: 2533 Pre-Orders Needed: 1000

BLOOD REEF TARAWA Gamers Guide
Retail Price: $16.00 Pre-Order Price: $12.00
Total Pre-Orders: 1061 Pre-Orders Needed: 1000

Doomed Battalions (reprint)
Retail Price: $72.00 Pre-Order Price: $54.00
Total Pre-Orders: 855 Pre-Orders Needed: 560

Burma (OCS)
Retail Price: $55.00 Pre-Order Price: $41.25
Total Pre-Orders: 465 Pre-Orders Needed: 440

ASL Map Bundle (Starter Kit Style)
Retail Price: $240.00 Pre-Order Price: $180.00
Total Pre-Orders: 535 Pre-Orders Needed: 450

Panzerblitz: Hill of Death
Retail Price: $36.00 Pre-Order Price: $27.00
Total Pre-Orders: 769 Pre-Orders Needed: 575

South Mountain (RSS)
Retail Price: $36.00 Pre-Order Price: $27.00
Total Pre-Orders: 769 Pre-Orders Needed: 575

(OCS) Case Blue
Retail Price: $220.00 Pre-Order Price: $165.00
Total Pre-Orders: 815 Pre-Orders Needed: 425

BTW, we should get together and translate the rules into english as a group project. I would be willing to help.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

bulldozers — 2007-10-17T02:11:21+00:00

Personally I'm a little bummed SL won't come out, I was on the MMP 500 list. I find Yenkee's comments exploratory and to have the spirit of polite inquiry. I find Dieroll's comments to be somewhat rude. I find that the real postulation and musings from the other various geeks has indeed helped me to understand some of the differing, possible reasons for canceling the p500.

Good discussion line=)

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

Scoobysnacks — 2007-10-15T18:49:59+00:00

Just to add my $.02 on a couple of things. SL was an IGS game, to be made by MMP. MMP did not lose much (if anything) in the way of time and money from working on SL. Adam did yes, but that is no different then if a designer spent 100+ hours on a design and the game company said NO from day one. The costs are in time for the designer, but in this case MMP was not the designer, their portion is once the game hits its number.
I don't see the point of pulling a game very close and on track to its number just because its slowed down over the past 6 months or so. The cost to post on the preorder page is really irrelevant, and no production costs are involved so I don't see any cost savings or "cutting their losses" by doing so. The desire of the owner of the game rights is the most logical explanation to the killing of this game.
It would be ironic though if the game company that has become notoriously slow at releasing P# positive games, and poor at missing intended or wishful release dates would pull a game because its P# rate has slowed and it has missed its desired hit date.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

zeotter — 2007-10-15T16:18:50+00:00

Ok, hang on a minute. I wanted to see this game as much as anyone else, but what I am seeing here is what sounds like to me like blame on the fans for not stepping up and pre-ordering the game.

You know how many times I have be burned by buying a game I had never played, A LOT! And while I understand the pre-order system and I am not opposed to it I can't pre-order everything I want or I would be broke. In fact I have stopped most of my in store / online purchases so that I can afford pre-orders. Which is much more difficult because you are never really sure when they are going to hit you. So I have a lot of $$$ sitting in the bank waiting for the pre-orders I do have, because I don’t want to have dig myself out of debt like I did the last time I had 4 pre-orders with various companies that hit all at once and I didn’t have the $$$.

From what I have seen is usually a small group of games all break their required minimum at roughly the same time. I think the companies getting a little flush with $$$ and bump more than just the games that have made their pre-order minimum. Case in point GMT, who bumped up their Combat Commander supplements even though they had a little ways to go (but everyone knew they were going to get there anyway).

I was going to pre-order this game as soon as some other games had cleared and I felt like I could fit it in my budget. I had no idea there was a time limit on these games, and to be honest had I known it wouldn’t have done much. Games get announced all the time and the companies try to get the word out to get on the pre-order list quick. I am at my pre-order limit now, just because other games got my attention before Samurai Lords did. I am a huge fan of Feudal Japan war games, but I didn’t want to have to go through and cancel other pre-orders for this one (GMT just made this possible) I thought I would just get it later.

Yes I sometimes rely on others to get on the pre-order list for me, again I have been burned many, many times by games I have picked in stores and pre-orders and my budget just can’t handle all the games I want. I have to draw the line somewhere. I am forcing myself to try more games out before I buy, and to be honest it is really hard, I would rather just buy the game.

I hate to say this but this is where GMT is way ahead, they don't cancel games in their list like this (at least not that I have heard of yet).

I really don’t like it when I feel my hand is being forced on an issue. And I really don’t like it when everyone points fingers at “fence sitters” when they do not know their circumstances.

There I have said my peace, I am cool now.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

BeatPosse — 2007-10-15T16:09:49+00:00

I understand being disappointed by the loss of what looks like a great design, but seriously people this is a freaking p500/750/1000 we are talking about. No customers paid one red cent or spent one hour developing the damned thing. We are saying "IF you make this I will buy it". What has MMP taken from you?

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

Emile — 2007-10-15T14:58:56+00:00

Not to be too conspiratorial, but I'm starting to come to the opinion that SamLords got killed over a rights issue or because MMP made a determination that it would be too expensive to produce and wanted out before they were committed to finish the game. As others have suggested, it just doesn't seem to make much sense to drop a product that had about 400 orders and had a fair amount of development work already invested.

The way that this cancellation has been used as a explicit threat about other games in pre-order makes me think that MMP had to kill it, but wanted to use this as a chance to get some extra interest in their other games. If so, it's worked well, with some free third-party efforts made to bump other games up. That's my uneducated theory anyway.

If you were wondering if Feudal Lord will now become a grail game - a copy for sale on ebay just broke $120 with many hours left to go. I read Matt's rules translation and found it very clear and well-written, so the Sunset game should be quite playable. There was another for sale as well that went up before the English rules were released with a buy it now price of $69.99, and whoever snagged that got a good deal indeed. I wonder if Wolf Games or someone else will make an effort to bring more of the Sunset edition to the US from Japan and see if they can keep getting these high prices.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

yankeezulu — 2007-10-15T09:16:02+00:00

Rompcat wrote:
Thank you yankeezulu and desertfox2004 for your excellent contributions. . . ! Very interesting.

Let's hope their insistence for the rights was due to their barely-contained excitement at the prospect of releasing a double-deluxe version of Samurai Lords replete with an all-you-can eat hot dog producer.

KJ

Hi KJ. Thanks for that.

An all-you-can eat hot dog producer? Now that sounds like an idea! Or maybe an all-you-can eat charbroiled burger producer for British customers (because the fast food burgers here are really, really terrible)?

Matt

Thread: Re: translation for Feudal Lord available at CSW

Matt Boehland — 2007-10-15T06:20:13+00:00

That's perfectly fine

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

garysax — 2007-10-15T04:59:57+00:00

Wait, what, CSW isn't pay to post?

Also, too bad about Samurai Lords.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

Rompcat — 2007-10-15T04:47:06+00:00

Thank you yankeezulu and desertfox2004 for your excellent contributions. . . ! Very interesting.

No thank you, Die Roll Honker, or whatever you call yourself. Your contributions were worthless and annoying, and, dare I say, trollish.

Anyhow, it would be great to hear anything about the future of Samurai Lords; one can easily imagine the rightholders trying to force MMPs hand and having it backfire.

Let's hope their insistence for the rights was due to their barely-contained excitement at the prospect of releasing a double-deluxe version of Samurai Lords replete with an all-you-can eat hot dog producer.

KJ

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

B52guy — 2007-10-14T21:34:54+00:00

Extremely disappointed.
Samurai Lords was for me the centerpiece of all my other preorders. Everything else was a "while I am at it". I ordered and received AVL only after it was going final as I wanted to see what Adam's work looked like while I was waiting on SL. Impressed, I preordered everything else with his name on it. Now, I am forced to cancel all the preorders. Again, SL was the one I was really after. All the rest were supporting bids.

And a comment on MMP. I am a former ASL player and I am a collector of games with much experience with both GMT, MMP and others. MMP is the best preorder company out there. They don't publish much, but they are real good at garnering preorders and stringing folks along for years on end. GMT has SIGNIFICANTLY better customer service. In stark contrast to MMP I have found GMT to be friendly on the phone and they respond to every email every time.

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

yankeezulu — 2007-10-14T19:51:12+00:00

desertfox2004 wrote:
I'm assuming dice roll honker is refering to the concept of "sunk costs" in his criticism of the point being made by yankeezulu:

In economics and in business decision-making, sunk costs are costs that have already been incurred and which cannot be recovered to any significant degree. Sunk costs are sometimes contrasted with variable costs, which are the costs that will change due to the proposed course of action. In microeconomic theory, only variable costs are relevant to a decision. Economics proposes that a rational actor does not let sunk costs influence one's decisions, because doing so would not be assessing a decision exclusively on its own merits.

While I agree with the economic argument that DRH makes, I think it could have been made without being rude to YZ. Whatever happened to being civil in our posts around here? C'mon, were all brothers and sisters in boardgames around here, let's show some consideration!

Hi Leo,

Thanks for that. In response to your comments about sunk costs, I was vaguely aware of the theory, but I didn't think that I was proposing that MMP subject themselves to the sunk cost fallacy.

I'm also not sure that the costs I mentioned are sunk costs: at the time the decision was being made to scrap the game the costs incurred at that point may not have been irrecoverable, i.e. successful completion of the project may have covered that expenditure.

One problem with economics theories is that they tend to ignore all but one or two variables, which is just not true to life. In the real world there may be tens or hundreds of factors affecting a decision. The rational actor is also not true to life, as no one can ever have all the information to hand.

The other issue is that, if these indeed were sunk costs (i.e. irrecoverable), what planning and risk assessment was undertaken prior to the project to mitigate the chances of project failure and incurring these costs? Because even if a company doesn't factor the sunk costs into their decision-making, the time/effort/money has still been lost (and small companies tend to be especially vulnerable to such losses)

I'm not having a go at MMP's decision (disappointing as it is); they will have made the best decision they could. Like some others on this thread, I'm simply interested in debating the ins and outs of the decision.

Cheers,

Matt

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

desertfox2004 — 2007-10-14T14:58:19+00:00

generalpf wrote:
dieroll honker wrote:
The point I was making is that MMP has already lost time (and therefore money) in developing a game that will not now see the light of day. Not publishing it seems to simply compound the problem.

Remind me not to hire you because you persist in making arguments based on ignorance.
That's okay, if you're the kind of employer that hires based on forum behaviour, he probably wouldn't like his co-workers anyway.

I'm assuming dice roll honker is refering to the concept of "sunk costs" in his criticism of the point being made by yankeezulu:

In economics and in business decision-making, sunk costs are costs that have already been incurred and which cannot be recovered to any significant degree. Sunk costs are sometimes contrasted with variable costs, which are the costs that will change due to the proposed course of action. In microeconomic theory, only variable costs are relevant to a decision. Economics proposes that a rational actor does not let sunk costs influence one's decisions, because doing so would not be assessing a decision exclusively on its own merits.

While I agree with the economic argument that DRH makes, I think it could have been made without being rude to YZ. Whatever happened to being civil in our posts around here? C'mon, were all brothers and sisters in boardgames around here, let's show some consideration!

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

generalpf — 2007-10-14T13:26:21+00:00

dieroll honker wrote:
The point I was making is that MMP has already lost time (and therefore money) in developing a game that will not now see the light of day. Not publishing it seems to simply compound the problem.

Remind me not to hire you because you persist in making arguments based on ignorance.
That's okay, if you're the kind of employer that hires based on forum behaviour, he probably wouldn't like his co-workers anyway.

Thread: Re: translation for Feudal Lord available at CSW

dude163 — 2007-10-14T13:20:36+00:00

Hope you ddnt mind me posting this here Matt

Thread: Re: Samurai Lords prepub has been canceled

yankeezulu — 2007-10-14T13:17:55+00:00

dieroll honker wrote:
The point I was making is that MMP has already lost time (and therefore money) in developing a game that will not now see the light of day. Not publishing it seems to simply compound the problem.

Remind me not to hire you because you persist in making arguments based on ignorance.

I'm not quite sure why you've picked my posts out to criticise, as many others have been posting 'in ignorance', but you're quite welcome to keep going if it makes you feel better. Like the other people who wanted to see the game published, I'm just trying to understand the decision.

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mgringo — 2007-09-10T15:58:12+00:00

This is an image of the board after Oda left and before Takeda and Uesugi truly locked horns - in Mino near the center of the board. The board is beautiful and I love the counter art.

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adamant — 2007-08-09T22:48:25+00:00

SamLords at WBC. Zen Blade is 2nd from the left.

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adamant — 2007-08-09T22:46:00+00:00

Game in play at WBC 2007

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Zen Blade — 2007-08-09T19:14:47+00:00

Samurai Lords map at the 2007 WBC

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mgringo — 2007-04-20T05:50:47+00:00

From Kenshin to the Capital (one of the 4 player scenarios), it can be seen that Oda starts very strong with plenty of room to expand in the west. The other three players face a difficult challenge of needing to cooperate with each other while eyeing eac

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West2 — 2007-02-10T21:23:11+00:00

Gameplay Sample

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West2 — 2007-02-10T19:48:11+00:00

Latest draft of the map