Game: Dust

Thread: Re: A Review of Dust AKA How Boobs Conquer the World in 1-3 hours.

ckirkman — 2008-11-20T03:22:43+00:00

God, this game looks fun as hell.

Thread: Re: No Factions?

drpetrov — 2008-11-15T17:13:36+00:00

The background in the rules of DUST state that the coalitions of the world had been "turned on their heads" thanks to the discovery of VK. So theoretically there is no need to assume that any of the original politcal boundaries of the Earth have any meaning.

Of course, this is partly to justify the relatively random starting positions of the game. Essentially the game setup includes a risk-like mechanic of everyone taking turns taking a space. So the start of the game will make no sense historically. The background of the game means that this chaos shouldn't bother anyone.

However, this is not true in the comic book DUST. Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and The USA all still exist and are still fighting. I don't know if the Japanese or British are ever mentioned, but the Chinese are said to be in alliance with the Russians (under Chairman Mao I guess).

Under this logic you could say that the European capitals represent Germany and Russia, the Asian capitals represent China and Japan, and the North American capitals represent the USA and Britain (fighting from their exiled home in Canada after England was invaded by Germany).

Colours? I'd use black for Germany, red for Russia, and green for the USA (it's common in wargames such as A&A and Fortress America to use that "camo" colour for US units). In keeping with A&A colours you could also make Britain yellow and Japan orange, leaving blue for the Chinese. Or you could make blue Britain and make yellow China, or whatever.

Peet

Thread: Re: A Review of Dust AKA How Boobs Conquer the World in 1-3 hours.

Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-13T13:36:19+00:00

Fabio, I do believe this game is playable by 8 and 9 year olds. Its not over complicated in my opinion and has about the same number of rules as Risk does.

Thread: Re: A Review of Dust AKA How Boobs Conquer the World in 1-3 hours.

parduz — 2008-11-13T13:16:59+00:00

Question:
my son asked for the "Classic Risk" as a Christmas gift.
He's trained at boardgame, and i think he will be not so satisfied when he will have a full session of Risk (and not some half match), 'cause the high "lucky factor" (both in objectives and dice results).
Anyway, Risk is a game that his friends (not so trained in gaming) can handle and sometime owns.
I was thinking to Dust as an option (there's an italian version, and the price is the same). I just don't know if this game is harder than Risk.

So, do you think that Dust can be played by a group of 8-9 years old kids?

Thanks in advance.

Thread: Re: Dust or "How I Stopped Worrying and loved Nexus Ops"

Goldyn Gryphon — 2008-11-12T07:20:16+00:00

Sorry I should have stated i was referencing page 1 of the errata which says PP=(3x production centers*)+(6x capitals)+ card value.

Thread: Re: Dust or "How I Stopped Worrying and loved Nexus Ops"

Rliyen — 2008-11-11T23:33:38+00:00

Goldyn Gryphon wrote:
Good review. I do enjoy the game but I like Risk and bought it to introduce the guys I play Risk with to something different. It does that very well. You did get one thing wrong the 6 production points you get every turn are from controlling a capital no capital no points and if you are in that situation you probably will be eliminated soon.

Page 13 in the Premium Rules says otherwise. If you have no capital and territories that give you less than six PP, you get 6 PP.

Thread: Re: Dust or "How I Stopped Worrying and loved Nexus Ops"

Goldyn Gryphon — 2008-11-11T16:11:10+00:00

Good review. I do enjoy the game but I like Risk and bought it to introduce the guys I play Risk with to something different. It does that very well. You did get one thing wrong the 6 production points you get every turn are from controlling a capital no capital no points and if you are in that situation you probably will be eliminated soon.

Thread: Re: A Review of Dust AKA How Boobs Conquer the World in 1-3 hours.

Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-11T15:32:55+00:00

Goldyn Gryphon wrote:
I just got this to the table this past sunday with two risk converts. We loved it. In reading your review I found something I did wrong and something you did wrong. I did tactical supremacy for sea battles like land battles defender has it if no one has it. The other thing was sea majority you wrote "most sea units" it should be most sea territories. Good review can't wait to get this to the table again.

Goldyn, thank you very much for pointing this out! You are correct and I misread that! Glad you enjoyed it!

Ive edited my review to reflect the PROPER majority award as pointed out by Goldyn.

Thread: Re: A Review of Dust AKA How Boobs Conquer the World in 1-3 hours.

Goldyn Gryphon — 2008-11-11T15:19:02+00:00

I just got this to the table this past sunday with two risk converts. We loved it. In reading your review I found something I did wrong and something you did wrong. I did tactical supremacy for sea battles like land battles defender has it if no one has it. The other thing was sea majority you wrote "most sea units" it should be most sea territories. Good review can't wait to get this to the table again.

Thread: Re: This is a GREAT game!

Indygnome — 2008-11-10T09:21:05+00:00

I am like you. we played our first game last week and thought it was good fun. One of the group even tried to buy the game from me there and then.. Cant get a better recommend than that really.

I am also a major fan of Descent, so Yeah.. Big thumbs up to FFG. Keep the fun stuff coming.

Thread: Re: A Review of Dust AKA How Boobs Conquer the World in 1-3 hours.

Darth Headbutt — 2008-11-09T17:36:29+00:00

Luftwaffe Flak wrote:
Thanks Neil! Ive not played Nexus yet but its on my wishlist LOL . However, I know theres another review that said they preferred Nexus to this, so as always its a matter of personal taste and what they have time for. Personally I think this is a great stop gap to an Axis and Allies itch when you dont have time to set it up or play a full game of it. I also think though the Science Fiction setting is a turn off to a great many people who love Axis and Allies, but this is only a guess on my part.

I was checking out your profile and you must must must get a hold of Nexus Ops. I can guarantee with 99.50% accuracy you'll absolutely love it. Trust me, after looking at the games you like, make this the top priority to get Nexus Ops next. Here's 10 reasons why you'll love it.

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Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T17:07:55+00:00

Board spaces detail, sea, land, power sources and capitals. Please read reply for legend.

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Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T17:07:04+00:00

Storage solution for jigsaw board, $10 frame.

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Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T17:03:09+00:00

Land Majority

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Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T17:02:50+00:00

Sea Majority

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Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T17:02:24+00:00

Production Center Majority

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Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T16:39:50+00:00

British Forces and their Capital

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Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T16:38:42+00:00

American Forces and their Capital

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Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T16:38:14+00:00

Russian Forces and their Capital

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Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T16:37:38+00:00

Spanish Forces and their Capital

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Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T16:37:02+00:00

Italian Forces and their Capital

Thread: Re: A Review of Dust AKA How Boobs Conquer the World in 1-3 hours.

Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T15:25:15+00:00

Thanks Neil! Ive not played Nexus yet but its on my wishlist LOL . However, I know theres another review that said they preferred Nexus to this, so as always its a matter of personal taste and what they have time for. Personally I think this is a great stop gap to an Axis and Allies itch when you dont have time to set it up or play a full game of it. I also think though the Science Fiction setting is a turn off to a great many people who love Axis and Allies, but this is only a guess on my part.

Thread: Re: A Review of Dust AKA How Boobs Conquer the World in 1-3 hours.

Neil Thomson — 2008-11-09T09:02:29+00:00

Top review thanks.

My mate asked me to learn this for him 2 months ago so I could then learn him on it.

I think we'll get this to the table just prior to Christmas. Looks like fun and sounds like Nexus Ops in that it promotes aggression.

Thread: A Review of Dust AKA How Boobs Conquer the World in 1-3 hours.

Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T06:49:50+00:00

*Disclaimer* This review is for the Premium rules set.

Face it, men are motivated by sight, theres no question about it and this is why Im a bitz whore. And I'll level with you guys, the first thing that popped into my head when I saw this game high atop a game shelf was...MMM MECHS...actually my eyes were drawn to the two busty ladies on the front, then down to the FF Games symbol and that did it for me. I asked for assistance and looked over the back of it. Seemed interesting, Tannhauser on a world view if you will. WWII was forever changed by the discovery of alien technology. Anyway lets get on to the game without totally leaving the bosoms behind...

Components (The boobs themselves):
Great pieces, typical Fantasy Flight quality as far as the minis were concerned. The cards seem slightly thicker than Risk series cards. The board itself in terms of art is excellent. However in terms of its build I dont like it, its thin cardboard and because its puzzle pieces I just went ahead and framed the sucker so I wouldnt have to worry about warping etc. The dice are brown D6's but instead of numbers they have 4 spaces and 2 cross hairs. There are over 800 minis with this game!
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Set Up Time AKA Getting someone else to convince you that you need a boob job:
Set up time takes less than 5 minutes with 2 people, not sure about higher but presumably it would be fairly small unless you have Mr. A.P. (Analysis Paralysis) in your game group. Its definitely shorter than Axis and Allies R.E. Anyways each player selects their capital then places 1 tank unit until each land space is taken up.

Player Turn Order AKA Who gets to see the Doc first:
Player turn order is determined by which cards you'd like to play, these cards have a combat value in the top left, if these tie, you then move down to the movement phase and so on until the tie is broken.

Gather Resource Points AKA Save money for said boob job:
Resources are determined by how many capitals you own and how many Production Centers you control. You however must control enough power sources to power your Resource Centers, if you dont then you can only get 3 times the amount of Power Sources you control. You also get an additional point bonus from the Resource section of the card in play.
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Build Units AKA GET NEW BOOBZ:
Units, cards, and Production Centers may then be purchased by these points. Units may be placed up to 5 per Production Center you have, Subs are placed in the sea area adjacent to the Production Center.

Movement Phase AKA Recover from the boob job:
Movement is handled rather well in this game, the card you play to determine your initiative has a number of movement points your allowed to spend. Movement points are used up for each time you move units from an origin point to another. However, you can follow the lines on the board from your starting point to your end point for as many spaces in between as long as they are friendly or unoccupied. This provides from some pretty wide sweeping strategies.
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Combat AKA How to slug the new implants out of your opponent:
The game gives an initiative number to each unit, just because your the attacker doesnt mean you'll get the chance to fire first. This is very important throughout the game. Combat is simple and straight forward, you have units: Tanks, Mechs, Fighters, Bombers, and Subs. These units all have combat values which determine how many die you roll at once.
The only land unit that can attack subs is the Bomber and the only sea unit is the sub so its the only one that cant attack an adjacent land hex. Overall the combat is simpler than Axis and Allies, yet will ultimately end up in being a dice fest at some points. Casulty removal is done in order of precedence, tanks must be removed before Mechs, Fighters before Bombers. Sea combat is abit more hectic, both sides have NO initiative and roll at the same time removing casualties simultaneously. Considering there is only 1 sea unit, I think this works rather well.
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Using your cards special ability AKA Missile boobs:
All of the cards you have in your hand have special abilities which are explained in the rule book, some are Ballistic Missiles which allow you to strike anywhere on the board removing any units of your choice, some allow you to drop your mechs anywhere, some allow you to gain free units and so on.
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Count Victory Points AKA Compare bra sizes and determine if you need a 2nd operation:
Victory points are handed out as follows:
1 point per capital you control
1 point per power source token you have
1 point per majority token you own*

*Majority Tokens AKA Having the biggest ones of all:
There are 3 majority tokens one can earn in the points phase:
Controlling the most land territories will give you Land Domination
Controlling the most Production Centers
Controlling the most Sea Areas
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Final Verdict AKA Was having to buy a whole new wardrobe really worth it?:
Personally I love this game, its quicker than Axis and Allies, promotes AND rewards for attacking when its right AND defending in its right. Theres no player elimination, and did I mention it doesnt take 18 hours to finish? A two player game finished in 2 hours and that was with two inexperienced players and teaching.

On a parental note, the boob titles in this were a joke, theres nothing more inside of this game rather than a few pictures in the rulebook that have pokies but NO nudity what so ever. As far as the game itself goes and the cards theres nothing to worry about bringing this to your table if you have some young ones that are interested.

8 's out of 10 from me.

Thread: This is a GREAT game!

Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-11-09T02:19:21+00:00

Just wanted to say I finished up my first Premium game of this and plan on playing it again tomorrow. I love it! I like most things FFG puts out (could you tell? LOL) but some things of theirs I dont like. This on the other hand seems underrated in my opinion. The set up time is alot quicker than Axis and Allies as is the play time! The cards add an interesting twist to it as well. The bitz are outstanding and the difficulty isnt too hard. Anyways just wanted to give my kudos to the designers etc!

Thread: Re: Secret Weapon ability against Capitals?

Indygnome — 2008-11-07T09:35:21+00:00

Please accept my thanks as well, we played our first game last night had exactly the same issue. We did roll the dice for the Capitals defence, but realised there was something of a problem. Having this question top of the list saved a lot of searching for me.

Thread: Re: Secret Weapon ability against Capitals?

John_Q_Law — 2008-11-04T11:31:55+00:00

Thanks Peet, hadn't realised that the defence dice would still have been applied: I suppose the "infinity" symbol on the reference card really does take precedence over everything.

M.

Thread: Re: Observations on DUST, and a variant

drpetrov — 2008-11-03T13:46:29+00:00

Posted a new unit reference card for use with this variant here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/392336

Peet

Thread: Re: Secret Weapon ability against Capitals?

drpetrov — 2008-11-03T13:21:27+00:00

In the Italian version of the game the secret weapon card cannot be used when attacking a capital.

While the FFG FAQ does not mention this, it is certainly a valid way to play to say that the Secret Weapon card can't be used against capitals - just make sure you establish this at the start of the game. I suspect that FFG may eventually update their FAQ to include this revision.

Even if you allow the card to be used in an attack on a capital, the capital will still roll its defense dice before the opponent marches in.

BTW, if you look at the reference card you'll see that capitals roll 5 dice in combat, not 6.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/278907

Peet

Thread: Secret Weapon ability against Capitals?

John_Q_Law — 2008-11-03T11:34:21+00:00

Hi all,

Played 4 player Dust (Premium rules) at the weekend and came across what seemed to be a very unbalanced use of the "Secret Weapon" card. As you'll know, it forces all opposing units at the start of any one battle to retreat.

Now, I had a giant force protecting my capital after 20 VPs had been scored, which means they can now be atacked. My neighbour (you'll remember that all capitals have an immediate neightbour) did attack me, however he played the Secret Weapon card and forced all my units (some 12 or so, including a load of bombers) to retreat and then simply sauntered in.

Now, considering that capitals are meant to be tough things to beat, with a +6 dice defence and always win on initiative, the use of this card to attack them seems extremely unbalanced to me. Certainly if there is no caveat against this particular use, it seems to me quite justified to spend a load of resources at the start of the game searching for this card/s so that you can use it later, as it is most definitely a game winner, or at the very least, enough to eliminate another player from the end-game.

Any thoughts?

M.

Thread: Re: Observations on DUST, and a variant

drpetrov — 2008-10-31T19:35:32+00:00

Oh, one more addition:

8. Straits
If you control either Panama or the Celebes (see map below), your submarines may move and attack as if the sea areas on either side were connected directly.

Thread: Two separate rulebooks - how FFG dropped the ball

drpetrov — 2008-10-31T14:52:57+00:00

It's not a major criticism, but did we really need two entire rulebooks for this game, considering that the differences between the two versions could fit on a single page?

I would have much preferred that the publishers print a single rulebook with one extra page outlining the differences between the games, and then spend the savings on a card reference sheet, like this one:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/390987

Peet

Thread: Carriers?

drpetrov — 2008-10-30T22:08:54+00:00

There's a couple of pictures in the gallery that show aircraft carriers as if they are part of this game:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/330409
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/204671

Is this a unit that's available in a foreign edition but not the American one?

Peet

Thread: Variant for DUST: New unit types

drpetrov — 2008-10-30T22:03:34+00:00

It's pretty unlikely that any new units will ever be made for this game, but if you happen to be good at sculpting in fimo or some other kind of hobby clay you could make extra units for the game.

Here's my ideas for some new units:

1. Missile Battery
Basically take the tank chassis and put the mech's missile racks on it instead of the turret. They represent a middle unit between mechs and tanks, and are removed after tanks but before mechs.

Production Cost: 3
Combat Strength: 2
Tactical Superiority: 0

2. Scout Plane
A more regular-looking airplane, used to scout enemy positions but not for combat. They are removed before fighters.

Production Cost: 2
Combat Strength: 0*
Tactical Superiority: 1

* Note that the "Ace of the Skies" card does give this unit a combat strength of 1.

3. Hovercraft
A hovercraft with jet engines and turrets. The hovercraft is able to occupy a sea space or a coastal space. When moving or attacking from a land space to a sea space (or vice-versa), the hovercraft's move/attack cannot be combined with any non-amphibious unit. When at sea, submarines are removed before hovercraft. On land, mechs are removed before hovercraft.

Production Cost: 6
Combat Strength: 2
Tactical Superiority: 0

4. Airship
Basically a big zeppelin with guns. Since the airship can hover, it can occupy a sea zone or a land zone. It's pretty slow compared to normal planes, so it doesn't give tactical superiority. It can perform a special "airship move," which allows airships to move along any line of connected friendly land zones AND sea zones. Each airship may also carry a single tank during an airship move and drop it off at its destination. They may also make special bomber attacks. In combat they are removed after bombers. They may fight at sea, but as air units they are vulnerable as there will be no other air units to screen them.

Production Cost: 7
Combat Strength: 3
Tactical Superiority: 0

5. Rocket
Essentially a large expendable missile. A rocket only gets used once and then is gone. Rockets may participate in special bomber attacks, or conventional land combat. Rockets may also grant bonus dice for special ballistic missile attacks. If the target of the ballistic missile attack is adjacent to the rocket, the rocket adds two dice; otherwise it adds one die. Rockets can take hits like other air units, but as soon as they roll their combat dice they are removed from the board.

Production Cost: 2
Combat Strength: 2
Tactical Superiority: 1

Peet

Thread: Re: Premium or Epic

drpetrov — 2008-10-30T21:22:14+00:00

There is a bit of a strategic difference between the two.

In the premium game, each VK resource spot is worth a point per turn, so competition for these will be fierce. In the epic game, each VK spot is worth 1/3rd of a point per turn, so there should be less competition for them than in a premium game.

Meanwhile, the majorities are worth 2 in the epic game and only 1 in the premium game. So in an epic game people will be fighting for the lead in these fields more than in the premium game, and the losers will get further behind than they did in the premium game.

You can always play an epic game with the premium victory point totals for winning, i.e. if you have 5 or 6 players, only play to 30 points, and allow attacking capitals at 15 points.

Peet

Thread: Re: Premium or Epic

Tygo — 2008-10-30T15:11:04+00:00

The main difference is in the setup. Mechanically the games are the same. Personally I feel you get just as much game out of the shorter version in half the time.

Thread: Premium or Epic

darkskies — 2008-10-30T14:28:58+00:00

I have just got a copy of Dust at Essen this year. Which is better to learn first, Epic or Premium? Is there a big difference between the 2?

Thread: Observations on DUST, and a variant

drpetrov — 2008-10-29T18:17:02+00:00

Played my first game of DUST on Saturday, and I admit I enjoyed it, though the reactions to the game were mixed. I did notice some things which seemed like flaws to me.

1. In every land battle (except battles at capitals), the attacker had tactical superiority. This is because all the attacker needs to do is count how much tactical superiority the defender has and bring one extra fighter. Achieving tactical superiority is easy and therefore favors the attacker in this game.

2. Not a major issue, but the fact that capitals always grant tactical superiority means that the best strategy to defend a capital is to load it up with only tanks. Likewise, when attacking the same applies; you only want to bring in tanks when attacking a capital. While defending a capital should give a big advantage, I would prefer to see a system where using combined arms still has value.

3. The balance of unit costs seems a bit out of whack, in that bombers and mechs seem overpriced. Consider: one mech faces off against a fighter and a tank. Both sides score 1 hit. The mech is killed, as is the fighter, but the tank survives and wins. Yet both sides have an equal production cost. As a rule, if unit x has double the attack power but the same defensive power as unit y, it is not worth double the value of y but rather roughly the square root of 2 times y, or about 1.4 of y. The mech dropper cards do give mechs a bonus but not enough to warrant the high cost. The same argument can be made about bombers, since a bomber is certainly not as powerful as 2 fighters, and the Air Ace card gives two fighters more dice than it gives one bomber. Bombers do have some special powers but these are very rarely used, partly because of their cost.

4. In the game we played on Saturday, two players out of six were virtually knocked out of the game by the end of turn 2. And even though it is difficult to eliminate players completely, once a player has been seriously weakened it is virtually impossible for him to get back in the game. This means the game will suck for that player, since he just has to sit back and settle for being a minor nuisance to people for the rest of the game.

5. Under normal military doctrine, it is considered sensible to bombard an enemy position before assaulting it, as you can inflict some casualties and 'soften up' the enemy position before your troops engage. However, in DUST, your special submarine attack, special bomber attack, or ballistic missile attack can be TOO effective, because if it empties the space of units that space can no longer be attacked - entering an empty space is a move, not an attack.

6. Disallowing special submarine attacks against capitals seems rather arbitrary; rather it seems that capitals ought to be attackable but also have some kind of defense.

7. I would also like to see bombers be able to make special attacks against land targets.

-------------------------------

* My Variant addresses these issues one by one:

1. To determine who fires first, both players roll a die, plus one die for each point of tactical superiority. Whoever scores the most hits fires first; ties make combat simultaneous, like a sea battle. This would result in the attacker not being certain of tactical superiority, though he can still stack the odds in his favor.

2. Instead of granting an infinite tactical superiority, a capital gives a tactical superiority of 5. Still a big deal, but not insurmountable, and it makes it sometimes worthwhile for the defender to put more expensive units in his capital.

3. Mechs now have a cost of 4 instead of 5. Bombers now have a cost of 5 instead of 6.

4. The minimum production a player recieves *before* counting the production bonus of his card is six. This way, a player can always gain extra production points from card play, regardless of how many power sources, production centers, and capitals he holds.

5. You may make land, sea, or amphibious attacks against spaces that you have emptied with special attacks - you just move in your units.

6. Submarines can make special attacks against capitals, but the capital can return fire with its normal combat strength of five dice.

7. The special bomber attack is replaced with the special "Air Raid" attack (see below).

Air Raids
---------
Any group of air units in an area that includes at least one bomber may make a Special Air Raid attack. The player controlling the air units announces the attack, spends a combat point, and moves the air units forward to make the attack. An Air Raid may be made against an adjacent land area or sea area.

Step A: First, the defender may choose to scramble his fighters, or he may leave them on the ground. The defender rolls the combat strength of any fighters he scrambled, plus the combat strength of any production centers or capitals in the space. Skip this step if the defender has no fighters and you are not attacking a capital or production center.

Step B: Once casualties have been removed, the attacker rolls the combat strength of any fighters he is attacking with. Casualties from these dice are removed from defending fighters ONLY. Fighters the defender did not scramble are not eligible to be hit. Skip this step if the defender did not scamble any fighters.

Step C: Finally, the attacker rolls dice equal to the combat strength of the bombers he is attacking with. Hits from these dice may be applied to defending land units or defending air units, but may not include any fighters which were scrambled. Once these hits are removed, all attacking air units return to the area they attacked from.

Note that the Air Ace card ability may be used by either the attacker or the defender in a Special Air Raid attack. Also, if attacking a sea area the Air Raid functions just like the original special bomber attack.

---------

If anyone tries out this variant I'd love to hear how it went.

Drpetrov

Thread: Re: [Review] Dust

goldenboat — 2008-09-02T08:15:32+00:00

TomVasel wrote:
... the artwork is ridiculous (the soldiers look like European models) ...

Which is pretty much the whole point of the property this game is based upon.

Just sayin'.

Thread: Re: Combat - Keep Rolling Until Elimination or Retreat?

Rock Photo Star — 2008-08-17T01:21:03+00:00

GSReis wrote:
I don't have the game anymore, but if I recall it correctly, the cease-fire occurs whenever there is a sequence of three rolls with no hits, not necessarily the first three.

Okay, that would make sense. I thought it was the first three rolls but any time it happens would be a good mechanic.

Thread: Re: Combat - Keep Rolling Until Elimination or Retreat?

GSReis — 2008-08-16T23:13:10+00:00

I don't have the game anymore, but if I recall it correctly, the cease-fire occurs whenever there is a sequence of three rolls with no hits, not necessarily the first three.

Thread: Combat - Keep Rolling Until Elimination or Retreat?

Rock Photo Star — 2008-08-16T19:45:53+00:00

It is not really clear to me (maybe it's me) in the rules, more implied than clearly expressed.

Presuming no cease fire (1st three rolls - 2 by attacker, 1 by defender - with no hit), do each side continue to roll until the other side is either eliminated or retreats (or they retreat).

Seems like battles could go on forever, which doesn't sound fun.

Thread: Re: Am I wrong to say...

Rock Photo Star — 2008-08-09T06:02:01+00:00

Yes, I believe it's even asked about in another thread and Spartaco answers "Yes," but it does not have to be the capital you started with.

Besides, also losing the 6ppts for the next round, you also lose its contribution to victory ps.

Thread: Dust Premium Victory Points Needed to Win

BSynnott — 2008-08-05T14:46:07+00:00

The premium rulebook states that the posted # of needed victory points needs to be exceeded. Does this mean 31 in a 6 player game or is this a misprint?
Thanks,
Bob

Thread: Re: [Review] Dust

Spartaco — 2008-08-01T21:38:59+00:00

Well, what can I say? Thank you very much for your review.

I'm really happy you enjoyed the game.

Spartaco Albertarelli

Thread: Re: [Review] Dust

Tygo — 2008-07-31T14:22:15+00:00

Tom, I agree and second your review.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/207674

Thread: Re: [Review] Dust

volnon — 2008-07-31T12:52:29+00:00

I am glad to see this game get a solid review- good choice!- and am a bit shocked the game gets so little exposure here on BGG. Well, maybe not. After all, it has no meeples...

I made a recent trip north where I would have no computer and very limited TV, and DUST was one of the games I took with me to entertain myself.

I really enjoyed the game, and unlike some people, found the game over far faster than I wished for it to be. I wanted it to go just a few more rounds to really kick some butt. We played it 2 or 3 times and I enjoyed each game more than the last.

This game is best played with as many players as you can round up. I played one 2-player game and found it dry, but still enjoyable.

Thread: Re: [Review] Dust

ooogene — 2008-07-31T02:03:14+00:00

A good review, but I couldn't disagree with you more. My one experience lasted WAY TOO long and I doubt I'll ever try it again. I don't say that about many games. Again though, informative review.

Thread: Re: [Review] Dust

Zadok13 — 2008-07-31T00:35:52+00:00

Great review Tom, I honestly couldn't agree with you more. I think Dust is a bit underrated and more people should certainly give it a chance.

Thread: [Review] Dust

TomVasel — 2008-07-30T23:27:51+00:00

I am not a fan of Risk; I know that there are legions of folks who enjoy the game, but I simply find the luck too annoying, the length never-ending, and the player elimination not fun at all. I've played a lot of Risk "upgrades"; and while they add some enjoyment to the game, I still have been attracted to only a few of them. When I saw the box of Dust (Fantasy Flight Games, 2007 - Spartaco Albertarelli and Angelo Zucca), I was slightly interested but assumed that yet another Risk clone had been created.

I was completely surprised at how much I enjoyed the game and wanted to play it again and again. The game comes with two settings, "Premium" and "Epic"; and while the Epic game may satisfy those who want long marathon type games, the Premium allows all the fun ideas of Risk to occur in a shorter time frame. The game encourages diversity in units, fast attacking, the formation of and broken alliances, and simply has a sense of fun! With terrific pieces and an easy-to-learn system, Dust is a campy sort of game that is my first choice when wanting to play a game of world domination.

The board depicts a map of the world, made up of several land and sea areas (circles on the map) that are connected by various lines. Six of the land areas are capitals, and sixteen of the total areas are power source areas. Each player takes a pile of pieces in their color (tanks, mechs, fighters, bombers, and submarines) as well as six cards from a deck. Players use one of the cards to determine their turn order, and then take turns to claim one of the capitals and a fair share of all the land areas on the board, by placing tanks there. Players also get to put out some extra reinforcements, production centers, and take one power source token for each power source area they control. A pile of dice (with hit markings on two sides, and blanks on the other four) and the rest of the cards are placed near the board. The first round is ready to begin.

In each round, each player selects a card from their hand, revealing them simultaneously. Cards have five elements on them:
- Combat number - which determines the number of attacks the player may make this turn.
- Movement number - which determines how many non-combat movements the player may make.
- Production number - this number is added to the production points of a player each turn.
- Star(s) - these are used as a final tie-breaker when comparing cards.
- Illustration - giving the player a special ability they can use that round.
The player who has played the highest combat number takes their turn, with each other player following in decreasing order. (Ties are broken using the other numbers, then using stars. No two cards are identical.)

First a player determines their production value, adding their production centers, their capital, and their card value. However, a player's production centers mean nothing if they do not have a matching power source token for each. The different units have various costs for a player (and a player can also purchase more production centers and cards). Players can place these units purchased with their production value in any friendly area that contains or is adjacent to a production center. After this, players may make non-combat movements with their forces. Each movement takes movement points, and a few units have unique movement (such as the bombers). Finally, the player can make combat moves, based on their combat number. When attacking, each player totals up the combat value of their units. The player with the highest tactical supremacy attacks first. Some units, such as fighters, have a tactical supremacy number, making them useful in combat for just this purpose. Players roll dice equal to the total combat value of their units, with the defender given some bonus dice for production centers and capitals. There are some rules as to which units must be removed first, and how players can retreat; but mostly a unit is eliminated for each hit rolled. There are special rules for sea battles, amphibious attacks, bomber runs, submarine attacks, and missile attacks.

At the end of each turn, players score one point for each capital and power source they control, as well as one point for having the most land areas, or the most sea areas, or the most production centers. If a player has reached a certain amount of points (depends on the number of players), the round ends - with the player having the most points winning the game!

I've just summarized the "Premium" rules, which take about two or three hours. The "Epic" rules are very similar, with a few changes - mostly concerning scoring and production. Since players get fewer points in the Epic game, it takes about four to six hours.

Some comments on the game...

1.) Components: There's quite a bit packed in the large box of Dust. The board is quite large and is made up of six puzzle pieces that fit together fairly well, although I had to bend some of them slightly to get them to lay completely flat. The plastic armies are incredible - each player has 130 units that they can use (I can't imagine even coming close to that number), and molds are nice, giving the game a futuristic appearance. I do love plastic! Some nice reference cards are included that give the stats for each unit, and everything fits snugly inside a plastic insert. The dice, which are brown with target symbols on two sides, are useful if bland; and the cards are of high quality. I only have two small problems with production. One is that the artwork is ridiculous (the soldiers look like European models), and the other is that the card artwork, which is supposed to be indicative of the special ability it rewards, is not obvious. There is chart in the rulebook, and I find myself passing this around constantly. Fantasy Flight should have put the meaning of each special ability on the flipside of the reference sheets; it really would have helped game play.

2.) Rules: Other than the special ability snafu, the rules are actually quite well done. Each of the two rulebooks has the complete rules written in them; and when the rules diverge from the other rule set, they are printed in blue, helping one to quickly differentiate between the two. I can teach the game in about ten minutes; once players understand what the numbers on the cards do, the rest is fairly simple. I did have to explain the several types of attacks, but combat itself is simple.

3.) Epic vs. Premium: I wonder if the only reason Epic was included was so that the people who MUST have a longer game would be happy. I think the Premium game is far superior, as it highly encourages players to attack one another, since the power source areas are so important for scoring. Epic seems to do nothing special other than bringing the game to a slow craw. Premium allows players to start with a good deal of forces, and a lot of fighting is going to occur, which is the point of the game, anyway. I'm not a big fan of "turtling", something that occurs in many war games - in which players simply tend to build up large forces and sit on their properties defensively. (I do think that this "turtling" factor is something that happens more often in the Epic game, since it takes much longer.)

4.) Players and Time: The amount of players in the game certainly affects the length of the game. A full six-player game (which is the most fun, in my opinion), will take a full three hours, but a four players can likely knock out a game in two. Still, the more armies on the board, the more exciting the game is; and attacks will be made every turn.

5.) Combat: The combat system is very enjoyable, because it's quick and easy yet allows players some interesting choices when building their armies. For example, a tank costs two production points and gives a player a single die in combat, while a fighter cost three production points, and gives a tactical supremacy of "1", along with the single die in combat. So when spending fifteen production points, should I buy seven tanks or five fighters? One gives me more dice with which to attack, while the other allows me to roll first - possibly a huge advantage! The diversity of armies is simple (there are only five basic units), but it does give the game a more unique feel - mech units feel different than a bomber. Combat is still highly luck-based; but it does work smoothly and allows players to roll lots of dice.

6.) Cards: The card system is the best part of the game - it really works well, allowing a player to sort of customize their turn. You can play a card with a high production value but with few attacks and moves. On the flipside, a player may be able to make a pile of attacks but have very little maneuvering power and low reinforcements. But all of this might pale beside the special abilities a card gives. There are eleven of these, which include:
- Diplomat: Force another player to become your ally for one round
- Ballistic Missiles: Make one missile attack this turn
- Mech Dropper: The player may place mech units in one target area on the board
- Sigrid: The player may reroll all blank dice in one battle.
Some of the special abilities certainly seem better than others, but all of them are useful and often decide which card a player will use. However, it can be a bit of a choice to use a card that does something you really want, but that has low numbers on it. Another interesting feature of the game is the fact that you can buy cards. Buying lots of cards gives a player a plethora of choices on their turn, but at the same time, will lower their overall production.

7.) Power Centers: The power supply areas keep this game moving and also help to differentiate it from other games in the same genre. Because it's so important to control these areas, both for production and point purposes, players are constantly fighting over them. They are scattered throughout the world, including the sea areas; and therefore, there is no "sweet spot" on the board, although North America seems the easiest place to defend. The importance of these spots also decreases the need to consolidate one's forces, although you can still do this effectively. I found that having two powerful, yet smaller army groups on the board was fairly effective; and fighting on three or more fronts was not impossible. But most of all, I was just happy that attacks occur on every turn, keeping the game moving and exciting.

8.) Risk and Fun Factor: Because of the rules, it is difficult, yet not impossible, to eliminate another player. At the same time, a player can all but be eliminated if they are reduced to a sniveling force on the board. That and the fact that the game is about world domination will certainly give credence to the accusation that the game is merely a "Risk" clone. But while the game has the same feel as Risk and will also likely highly appeal to fans of that game, it's incredibly better. Dust is by far the most enjoyable game of this genre that I've played - better than Risk (or any version thereof), Attack!, Axis and Allies, and more! It's fun, involving, and while it still keeps the classic line "Why are you attacking me? He's winning!" in the game, I don't mind.

I enjoy Dust because it's a very fluid game. Attacking and defending is simple, yet encouraged by the rules. The game has a set time limit (due to the victory point track), so it doesn't bog down much. The cards are clever, and the whole thing feels like a grown up version of Risk - yet still loads of fun. While the theme is a bit wonky, I don't mind; it's simply a world domination game. And it's currently the best one available on the market.

Tom Vasel
"Real men play board games"
www.thedicetower.com

Thread: Re: No Factions?

vappel — 2008-07-29T20:57:25+00:00

There are no factions, none of the armies have special rules. What nation you represent is decided when you place your capital. We tend to have fun with our faction colors and give ourselves faction names based on the color. I always play the Red Death faction and my friend always plays the Black Plague faction. The rest of the group gets stuck with the colors that are left. There is nothing better than seeing Nation Gangrene overcome by the Army of the Baby Blue Bombers...

-v

Thread: Re: Dust or "How I Stopped Worrying and loved Nexus Ops"

hogscape — 2008-07-27T07:50:57+00:00

Outstanding review - thank you very much. That really helped me make a buying choice - much appreciated.

Thread: No Factions?

Luftwaffe Flak — 2008-07-08T12:20:56+00:00

I understand that the pieces are different colors but is there any guide as to what colors are who? TIA and all the best, Jonathan

Thread: Re: Retreating units to different zones allowed?

Nelud — 2008-06-23T04:42:06+00:00

But as far as I understand, you may retreat half of you units in one area, then before your next attack you may retreat half of your remainting units in the different area.

Thread: Re: Dust or "How I Stopped Worrying and loved Nexus Ops"

Rliyen — 2008-06-18T22:18:36+00:00

JesterKnot wrote:
Good review - stating exactly what you do and don't like and why. I've had reviews that state what they don't like and it's something I do, so I go buy the game. Other reviews on Dust haven't given me a feel either way. With this one, I'm aligned on what you do and don't like, so I can look to other games - thanks.

You're very much welcome.

Thread: Re: Dust or "How I Stopped Worrying and loved Nexus Ops"

JesterKnot — 2008-06-18T15:09:55+00:00

Good review - stating exactly what you do and don't like and why. I've had reviews that state what they don't like and it's something I do, so I go buy the game. Other reviews on Dust haven't given me a feel either way. With this one, I'm aligned on what you do and don't like, so I can look to other games - thanks.

Thread: Re: Dust or "How I Stopped Worrying and loved Nexus Ops"

falloutfan — 2008-06-17T01:59:55+00:00

Rliyen wrote:

You see, that's just it, FF. THERE ARE NO FACTIONS IN THE GAME. The only difference between the armies is the color. I kid you not.....

Now, what would I do to spice it up? Use more of the background from the damn comic, for starters. The only thing they use from the series, it appears, is the backdrop and the artwork. That's it. In order for this game to get better marks from me is that it needs factions in order to be interesting. It also needs player elimination.

I really dig unique factions and player elimination. The bloodier the better. I think I'll pass on this game. Thanks for saving me the money!

I look forward to your next review.

Respectfully

Falloutfan.

Thread: Re: Dust or "How I Stopped Worrying and loved Nexus Ops"

Rliyen — 2008-06-17T01:31:00+00:00

falloutfan wrote:
Interesting. You don't seem to be the only one saying that it was rather bland.

Just curious - what would you say they could've done to spice it up?

Are the various factions too similar? That's an issue with Risk and A&A, but at least A&A has the backdrop of WW2.

Great review!

Respectfully

Falloutfan.

You see, that's just it, FF. THERE ARE NO FACTIONS IN THE GAME. The only difference between the armies is the color. I kid you not.

This game is more like Risk and less like A&A. Hell, I don't even begin to understand that comparison, other than the fact that the game's set in World War II.

Now, what would I do to spice it up? Use more of the background from the damn comic, for starters. The only thing they use from the series, it appears, is the backdrop and the artwork. That's it. In order for this game to get better marks from me is that it needs factions in order to be interesting. It also needs player elimination.

Yes, I said it.

It needs player elimination. As it stands now, there is none. If you're in a losing position, you will have to stick it out to the bitter end, because even if you're down to a handful of territories and no capital, you get at least 6 production points a turn. However, if you're actually in that position, you'd be wishing for the sweet release that is PE because you can't do jack with 6 PP a turn, other than build a few tanks to get stomped by a tactically superior opponent. Hell, Nexus Ops has player elimination and if someone actually is knocked out, the game ends then and there.

Thread: Re: Dust or "How I Stopped Worrying and loved Nexus Ops"

falloutfan — 2008-06-17T00:36:31+00:00

Interesting. You don't seem to be the only one saying that it was rather bland.

Just curious - what would you say they could've done to spice it up?

Are the various factions too similar? That's an issue with Risk and A&A, but at least A&A has the backdrop of WW2.

Great review!

Respectfully

Falloutfan.

Thread: Re: Dust or "How I Stopped Worrying and loved Nexus Ops"

Rliyen — 2008-06-15T18:51:05+00:00

Sphere wrote:
I like the game more than you do, but gave you a for the well written review.

Thank you. Not to worry, the game is going to be finding a new home shortly, somewhere where it can be appreciated.