Game: Saint Petersburg Expansion

Thread: Re: Debtor's Prison

DaveD — 2008-12-02T14:15:46+00:00

GeoMan wrote:
djnesq wrote:
This card allows a player to search through the discards, select a card, and then either pay to play it or keep it in hand. The rules add, "discard if hand is full." Does that mean i) discard the selected card or ii) discard another card from your hand and keep the selected card?

Discard the selected card.

This does not seem clear from the rules. If the phrase means to discard the selected card, then there is obviously no point in taking a card if you aren't going to play it and have a full hand, so the phrase about discarding seems redundant unless it means that you can discard any card, but that makes the card more powerful than it already is.

MurWiz wrote:
The interaction of this card and the purple cards (especially the Donkey) seemed overpowering to us. Accordingly, my house rule is that this can be used only on a non-purple card.

This seems a sensible rule. The Debtor's Prison has essentially the same effect as the Black Market and the rules for that card specifically exclude the use of it to take a special card.

Thread: Re: Debtor's Prison

MurWiz — 2008-12-02T13:45:15+00:00

The interaction of this card and the purple cards (especially the Donkey) seemed overpowering to us. Accordingly, my house rule is that this can be used only on a non-purple card.

Thread: Re: Debtor's Prison

GeoMan — 2008-12-02T10:29:05+00:00

djnesq wrote:
This card allows a player to search through the discards, select a card, and then either pay to play it or keep it in hand. The rules add, "discard if hand is full." Does that mean i) discard the selected card or ii) discard another card from your hand and keep the selected card?

Discard the selected card.

Thread: Re: Debtor's Prison

Gamegrunt — 2008-12-02T05:50:41+00:00

As my group has played it, you don't pick up a card unless you have room in your hand for it -- you are not allowed to exceed your hand limit even briefly.

Gg

Thread: Debtor's Prison

djnesq — 2008-12-02T04:19:08+00:00

This card allows a player to search through the discards, select a card, and then either pay to play it or keep it in hand. The rules add, "discard if hand is full." Does that mean i) discard the selected card or ii) discard another card from your hand and keep the selected card?

Thread: Re: Recommend Cards for Two-Player Game

Kiboko Hippo — 2008-11-26T22:19:22+00:00

Thanks for starting this thread. I'd also like to know if anyone has left out a subset of cards for the two-player game. I'm referring to the New Society expansion in particular. I haven't tried the Banquet yet.

In my first game the scores were high (in the 200s) but close (a 9-point difference). However, the second game was a blowout which I won with 350 points (and larger than a 50 point differential) because the game dragged out until the Worker and Building simultaneously ran out during the same turn (and the Aristocrat deck was rather low at that point). There seemed to be too much money in the last part of that game and the balance felt completely out of whack. I ended the game with 160 rubles and my opponent had 120. We've both played Saint Petersburg many times (prior to any expansions) and the games have generally been close and we have a good feel of each other's strategies.

After this last game we felt like some cards should be taken out to keep the game tight and money lower. I don't know if this was just one odd game. In any case I'd like to hear the collective wisdom from others who have played two-player New Society much more than I have.

Thread: Re: Recommend Cards for Two-Player Game

puck71 — 2008-11-24T17:33:57+00:00

Any way higher scores! Our first game with the full expansion finished 225-223. Or was it 245-243? Either way, crazily high scores, but still just as tight as ever.

Thread: Re: Recommend Cards for Two-Player Game

dbmite — 2008-11-24T16:34:06+00:00

We like it waaaaaay long.

I wouldn't dream of taking any cards out of the game. Keep playing with all the cards, and you'll soon get used to the playing time. The game is longer now, but the expansion adds more excitement and depth.

Thread: Recommend Cards for Two-Player Game

Gamegrunt — 2008-11-24T13:04:29+00:00

In spite of leaving out several cards, a two-player game with my wife played waaaaaay long. Has anyone came up with a mix of old and new cards that makes for an ideal game for only two?

Gg

Thread: Re: Orange and Green color mismatch

Brummy — 2008-11-20T00:47:25+00:00

We have a house rule where you take the bottom card when using the Observatory.

Thread: Re: Orange and Green color mismatch

Salt-Man Z — 2008-11-19T19:41:28+00:00

This is an issue with the original Spielbox cards, too. I was kinda hoping they'd fix it for the new release.

The idea to draw the second card is a good one, though.

Thread: Re: Orange and Green color mismatch

puck71 — 2008-11-19T15:58:43+00:00

kevinb9n wrote:
fix: when using the observatory, cut the deck first.
Not a bad idea - or just take the second card, which will always work since you can't take the last card in a stack with the observatory.

I was also thinking of trying to find sleeves for the cards, but this seems like a cheaper fix!

Thread: Re: Orange and Green color mismatch

kevinb9n — 2008-11-19T06:57:41+00:00

fix: when using the observatory, cut the deck first.

Thread: Re: Orange and Green color mismatch

houjix — 2008-11-19T05:19:38+00:00

Observatory is definitely the big implication. I saw near the end of the game a player digging for the last Mistress in a small deck (the replacement card) and the shade of orange was a big hint.

Thread: Re: Orange and Green color mismatch

dtolman — 2008-11-19T04:00:11+00:00

Noticed the same thing - biggest gameplay difference is a reluctance to pickup greens with the observatory based off a 7-1 (or so) shot it'll be czar vs a new farmer.

Thread: Orange and Green color mismatch

puck71 — 2008-11-19T03:33:41+00:00

I just got the expansion delivered today, and the only issue I'm seeing so far is that the color on the backs of the orange (aristocrat) and green (worker) cards don't quite match the base game. The blue (building) cards look OK.

Has anyone else noticed this in their copy? My expansion aristocrats look more salmon than orange, and the workers look more sea green than forest green. These differences extend to the trading cards as well, and to both the Banquet and New Society sets.

I'm not sure how much it will affect gameplay, since the only time it's relevant is when using the observatory, but I definitely think the color is different enough where you'll be able to tell if the card on the top is from the base game or expansion.

I'm not really look for anything at this point, other than to see if other people have noticed it or if mine are extremely light (or my base game cards were extremely dark).

Thread: Re: Potjemkin's Village

kevinb9n — 2008-11-18T20:23:33+00:00

Interesting. I've played with the banquet several times but this (unsurprisingly) never came up. I can see the sense behind either ruling on this one.

Thread: Re: Potjemkin's Village

Salt-Man Z — 2008-11-18T18:14:02+00:00

We've always played that, since they are not identical cards, you don't get a discount.

Thread: Re: Potjemkin's Village

DaveD — 2008-11-18T17:29:15+00:00

Interesting question which I hadn't thought of. I would say you are right, since I can't see anything in the expansion rules that says you do get a discount.

Thread: Potjemkin's Village

Mike Mayer — 2008-11-18T17:11:23+00:00

If you buy a second Potjemkin's Village, I assume you don't get the $1 discount (since all the P-Villages have different numerical values, and thus not the "same" card).

Correct?

Thread: Re: First round

ange noir — 2008-11-16T21:28:24+00:00

Well
a big thank you for such explanations.

Thread: Re: First round

dtolman — 2008-11-16T18:41:51+00:00

Hi -You can never go last more than one phase in a round. That is because who is last is determined by seating position. If you sit to the right of the player with the starting token for a phase, you go last that phase. So the player with the disc can end up going 2nd or 3rd in a phase. Here is an example

Lets say there are 5 players:
Adam has the worker token
Bart has the building token
Carl has the noble token
Daniel has the upgrade/bonus token
Elaine has the 5th player token

sitting in this order:E-D-C-B-A. Play always goes clockwise (to the left)

Adam would start the worker phase. Elaine would go last. 10 cards are put out, so everyone gets 2. In addition Elaine gets 2 additional rubles and 2 additional victory points

Bart starts the building phase. Adam would go last - remember, you go around in a circle, so you can never be last more than one phase in a round. Elaine gets no bonus - the 5th player only get a bonus the worker phase, but goes 4th do to the seating position

Carl starts the noble phase, Bart would go last.

Daniel starts the upgrade/bonus phase, Carl goes last.

At this point, tokens get passed TWO to the left. So now the tokens holders are:
Bart has the 5th player token (two down from Elaine)
Carl has the worker phase token (two from Adam)
Daniel has the building phase token (two from Bart)
Elaine has the noble phase token (two from Carl)
Adam has the upgrade phase token (two from Daniel)

E-D-C-B-A

This time Carl starts the worker phase, Bart goes last and has the 5th player token, so gets two additional victory points (but not the two rubles - that is start of game only).

The fact that Bart goes last is ENTIRELY do to position. You could adjust the initial distribution so that the "5th player" could go 2nd or 3rd in a worker phase, but still get the bonus.

Thread: Re: First round

ange noir — 2008-11-16T13:55:11+00:00

I think I have not understood the rule to five players.
this is what I understood.
In the first round, the player who received the card with a gold disk receives 2 rubles and more and 2 points of victory.
I understood 10 green cards ares cutted instead of 8 normal then the normal rules are applied
Now what I did not understand:
Does the player with the gold disc who earning 2 points does he wait for the end of a round to play or participate in phase Craftman, Building, Noble and Exchange as the last player?
I did not understand if a round to 5 players, only 4 players playing and knowing awaits the fifth until 5 fifth player changes each round.
The rule said that the English player with the disc does not play.
Can you explain in detail a round ? i'm a little lost
Sincerely

Thread: Re: First round

dtolman — 2008-11-15T21:33:37+00:00

Hi,
The first round, whoever has the disk gets 2 victory points and 2 rubles during the worker (green) phase.

The next round, it is passed two players to the left, and that player receives two victory points at the start of the worker phase. The 2 rubles are only for the first round. Whoever has the disk does not get first pick of any phase.

Thread: First round

ange noir — 2008-11-15T20:39:46+00:00

Well, the player with the disc starting player receives 2 money more and 2 points of victory, is it true ?
and second question :

the player with the starting disc at every round , don't play and receive 2 points, is it exact ?

Best regards

Thread: Re: Purple cards

Gamegrunt — 2008-11-15T01:53:41+00:00

mikey384 wrote:
How do you play a purple card when chosen with the Observatory card but your HAND IS FULL?

From what the expansion rules imply:

"He may not play the card immediately."

and

"...if a player does not have room to add a special card to his hand, he may not take it."

my take is that you have to DISCARD the purple card?

In this regard a purple card would have to be discarded whether it could be played and the action taken (Golden Donkey) or simply discarded (Pick Pocket.) With the Observatory, you pays yer money and takes yer chances.

Gg

Thread: Re: Purple cards

mikey384 — 2008-11-15T01:45:30+00:00

How do you play a purple card when chosen with the Observatory card but your HAND IS FULL?

From what the expansion rules imply:

"He may not play the card immediately."

and

"...if a player does not have room to add a special card to his hand, he may not take it."

my take is that you have to DISCARD the purple card?

Thread: Re: Disc Starting Player (Used for 5 Player Game) - Points on Turn 1?

Tom Lehmann — 2008-11-14T02:10:29+00:00

Correct -- on the first turn, the Disk player receives 2 VPs.

Thread: Disc Starting Player (Used for 5 Player Game) - Points on Turn 1?

D Erasmus — 2008-11-14T01:39:55+00:00

Just cracked this game open and have a question about the rules for the fifth player. The rules state:

The player taking the disc starting player card gets 2 extra rubles (27 total) to start the game and takes the Disk for the first round. There is no Disk phase. Instead, at the start of each round (before worker phase), the player with the Disk scores 2 victory points (the Disk player gets 2 extra rubles only at the start of the game, not on later rounds).

My assumption is that you take points during round 1 along with the money bonus, but want to make sure. Otherwise, I think it would read: "at the start of every other round".

Sound right?

Thread: Re: First two player game with the New Society

Gamegrunt — 2008-11-13T03:02:43+00:00

It's over-priced and over-boxed, but at least it's over-here.

Gg

Thread: Re: First two player game with the New Society

ColMustard — 2008-11-13T02:14:45+00:00

Thanks for the report. Great to hear that this has finally been released...after all the promises we were hearing for so very long.

Thread: Re: First two player game with the New Society

kevinb9n — 2008-11-12T19:55:09+00:00

I'm still in shock that it really, actually, for real got released!

Thanks for the report.

Thread: First two player game with the New Society

dtolman — 2008-11-12T17:47:44+00:00

Lynne and I eagerly opened up the expansion box last night - part 2 of her 31st birthday gift only coming 358 days late. The box was small, but the content was smaller - it could all fit in one small plastic baggy (now snuggly in my regular St Pete box). Still - the cards were the same high quality as our original edition - with very slight color differences on the greens and oranges. The blues were spot on.

I have to say, that I liked the New Society expansion. It certainly added a few more turns to the two player game - but it felt like the old game - but more. More money. More points. More $/VP choices. More Blue VP push/Orange collection choices.

Right away, as the game started, the expansion made a difference - two New Farmers (9$, 3$/1pt payout) came out on the initial draw, along with a 5$ weaver and 7$ ship builder. Since I got first choice and selected the weaver - Lynne decided to go for both the New Farmers and the early vps.

The early turns were tight, as usual, and several good cards were discarded for lack of cash (or desire to bank such expensive cards). By midgame though, it was apparent that playing with the extra cards were making a difference - our cash flow and vp gains we were seeing were typical of the last turn, and it was apparent that there was a while to go (30$ on the worker phase, 18 pts in the building phase).

The New Society cards continued to make our decisions harder. I had to decide between the warehouse, and the new debtors prison (observatory, but for the discard pile) - and went for the warehouse. It was a good thing too - as the next turn I ended up having to decide between a Judge (16$, 5$/2vp payout) and the new Mistress (18$, 3$/4vp payout). I decided on the Mistress - but man - it was a tough call - money or vp?!

By end game, we had settled on our typical strategies - I went with a strong blue push and with both inns and coffee house (2 vps for 3$) was able to get almost 70 pts that round to her still impressive 40. Lynne went with the Orange rush - she ended up with 13 aristocrats to my 10, and with the new scoring rules (10 pts for each aristocrat past the 10th), closed the gap on my 40 point lead. In the end, it came down to money - and I managed to squeak out a 2 point victory.

A lot of fun - and looking forward to trying it 5 player this weekend!

Just wanted to add - our final scores were 215 to 213 - possibly the highest scores we've ever had in a game!

Thread: Re: Musings on what's in the expansion

Gamegrunt — 2008-11-11T21:41:02+00:00

Wow! About 23 bucks for a small deck of cards and 3 wooden bits. If I didn't love Saint Pete so much...

Pound for pound, This is my most expensive game purchase.

Gg

Thread: Re: Pickpocket

Gamegrunt — 2008-11-09T14:34:08+00:00

Neat card! Really looking forward to getting my copy this week.

Gg

Thread: Re: Pickpocket

jtakagi — 2008-11-09T01:38:48+00:00

You're right, it is played at the beginning of only one phase, allowing you to go first just that once.

Thread: Pickpocket

Andrew Parks — 2008-11-09T00:50:21+00:00

Just picked up the expansion and read the rules. I have a question about Pickpocket. It says that it is played at the start of the "round". Should it instead say at the start of a "phase"? Or can it only be played right before the Worker Phase?

Or is it more powerful than I'm thinking and allow you to go first during every phase of the round?

Thanks,

Andrew

Thread: Re: Shipped yesterday from ThoughtHammer =)

Mease19 — 2008-11-07T18:22:28+00:00

Yay, all my Essen releases finally in the truck....

Thread: Re: Shipped yesterday from ThoughtHammer =)

dtolman — 2008-11-07T15:59:31+00:00

My 15 month old pre-order from Funagain is shipping as well (with a bonus what the heck Agricola thrown in as well)! One more week and I can... um... play it 2 player with my wife

Thread: Shipped yesterday from ThoughtHammer =)

ConnectiCon — 2008-11-07T15:53:19+00:00

Woot my pre-order finally came in and was released with my China/Korea PG map!

Image

jsper — 2008-11-07T14:21:25+00:00

Two sides of expansion box, large and short (x2)

Thread: Re: Do Rio Grande proof read their game boxes?

Smoky McAshtray — 2008-11-05T22:45:50+00:00

Gotta love translation errors. My personal favorite was on a box for a remote control car that a friend of mine bought while we were in Korea. He bought it pretty much because of the bad translation all over the box. But the good one was:

"With installation used for change the driving motor!"

To this day we still can't figure out what that is supposed to mean!

Thread: Re: A crackdown on the new cards

Tom Lehmann — 2008-11-05T00:12:03+00:00

The New Farmers are designed to make decisions between the 5-7 cost workers versus New Farmers a lot tighter. Further, note that there are 6 New Farmers, so a second or third New Farmer can be quite a nice deal; part of what you are buying with the first New Farmer is a discount on later ones...

Thread: Do Rio Grande proof read their game boxes?

woodnoggin — 2008-11-04T23:55:39+00:00

I hereby offer my services as an English-language proof reader for the back of Rio Grande game boxes. The back of this expansion reads: "Of course, creative players may choose to use some, but not all of each to make their own game and play in their own way.than 50 points."

How does something like that slip through? OK, it's not that big a deal, but it doesn't make a good impression if someone picks up the box in a shop and reads the back. It's not the first time, either:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/306723

Rio Grande, please put my pedantry to good use.

Thread: Available at Boulder Games

frogmind — 2008-11-04T22:36:42+00:00

This is in stock at Boulder Games.

Thread: Re: Release Date?

jschlickbernd — 2008-11-04T21:29:11+00:00

The release date is this Thursday, November 6th.

Thread: Re: A crackdown on the new cards

carlsbad — 2008-11-01T16:42:26+00:00

"7.The new green and green upgrades
This is the most problematic part. The New Farmer is not necessary. As others have said, an early purchase of it will strain your hand of cash"

Actually, I think the New Farmer adds an interesting dimension to the green round because it at least adds some sort of decision making in round 1. Shipbuilder for 7, or New Farmer for 9? New Farmer is an attractive deal vs the shipbuilder... For 2 bucks more in round 1, you're purchasing an eventual 6 points or so. That's a very good deal, but at the cost of having 2 fewer bucks for the rest of the round... so it's not an automatic choice, some decision making required. Of course, purchasing a new farmer quickly loses value the further along the game goes.

Your second part, it straining your hand of cash in round 1 is not necessarily that big of a problem. Just sit out the first blue round and plan accordingly for round 2's green round.

To make up the one point you have cranking because of the round 1 new farmer, a good base case is to look at the scenario of someone buying a market in round 1. That's a cost of 5. Let's reasonably assume each player takes 2 greens.... on average you'll get maybe a 4 + 6, or a 3 + 6 as first player, or 5 + 7 as third player. So, the average cost of players not taking new farmer greens is 9 to 12. For them to get the market, their total cost is 14 to 17.

So as long as the player who gets the new farmer (9) pays less than ~7 for his second green, he will have, on average, an identical situation to a player who buys 2 average greens and a market (except the new farmer player has upgrade potential of the farmer instead of the market).

We could debate forever whether 2 greens + market, new farmer + green + no blues, or what other scenario is better, but I think the new farmer + green scenario certainly isn't that damaging.

Even if you start the orange round as a new farmer player (let's say you get unlucky and end up with a fur trapper as well), you will have had to pay a net 9 bucks, leaving you with 16. That's still enough for a first round judge if you have both good position and a lucky draw. That leaves it tight for the next green round, but since you played the judge, you're reasonably well set even if you happen to get unlucky and get no greens round 2.

Thread: Re: Purple cards

Socal Tim — 2008-11-01T09:48:49+00:00

You are correct. In fact, none of the purple cards are associated with any specific phase anyway. I think that's why the designer made them purple instead of one of the three other colors. They can be played in any phase as long as you're able to use their special ability.

Have fun!

Thread: Re: A crackdown on the new cards

tw252 — 2008-11-01T07:15:40+00:00

carlsbad wrote:

Nice work on the expansion!

Thanks!

Thread: Re: A crackdown on the new cards

carlsbad — 2008-10-31T21:25:32+00:00

We played the expansion a couple of times last night, and it was quite enjoyable. Game plays pretty much the same, but allows for a few new strategies.

The concensus of our group, however, was that the sycophant was fairly unbalanced.

Its problem is that it's almost like a lottery ticket in the last couple of rounds (requiring zero planning or strategic decision making). What balances orange/blue in the final rounds is the tradeoff between planning for the oranges/upgrades and the blue points that you give up due to setting aside money for those potential oranges.

A player does NOT have to plan ahead to be able to afford a sycophant, and if that player gets lucky and draws one and has a fair number of oranges, he effectively gets ~10 points for free. We will likely be playing with a house rule of sycophant costing 5 bucks or so to help fix that imbalance.

Apart from that nothing sticks out too much... the academy is certainly a bargain, but I don't think unbalancing... I managed to play it early in our second game and make a ton of points on it but still got out-aristocrated.

Judge is still somewhat unbalanced at 16 bucks, if obtained in the first round. We'll likely go back to our house rule of 17 or 18 on that one (we used to play the old mistress at 21).

Only other comment would be that observatories are now more important than ever it would seem. The combination of longer games (at least in 4 player) combined with the ability to score over 10 oranges makes them even more powerful than before. So, I suspect that even 8 bucks is still unbalancing. I'd almost prefer if the aristrocrats capped out at 10, so that players are forced to focus a little more on blues.

Another house rule we have played for a while now is that black markets can be used to take purple cards from the deck (but debtor prison not). This adds a new dimension to the game.

Nice work on the expansion!

Thread: Re: Purple cards

Sentieiro — 2008-10-31T11:58:09+00:00

The Rules say:

"Special cards can only be played when their function can be used as well. Afterwards they are put on the deposit stack. So they cannot simply be thrown aside but don’t gather minus points in the end of the game either. "

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DaveD — 2008-10-24T12:47:06+00:00

Size comparison, the original game box on the left, the (still large) expansion box on the right, with the expansion contents on top.

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DaveD — 2008-10-22T14:50:02+00:00

The expansion replaces some original cards (top row) with new versions (bottom row).

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DaveD — 2008-10-22T14:46:56+00:00

Some of the New Society cards

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DaveD — 2008-10-22T14:44:47+00:00

The Banquet cards

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DaveD — 2008-10-22T14:42:48+00:00

Additional bits for a 5th player.

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DaveD — 2008-10-22T14:41:35+00:00

English Box Back

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DaveD — 2008-10-22T14:38:14+00:00

English Box Front

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samoan_jo — 2008-10-18T06:40:45+00:00

Sankt Petersburg Erweiterung - German box back

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samoan_jo — 2008-10-18T06:18:41+00:00

Sankt Petersburg Erweiterung - In bester Gesellschaft - Das Bankett