Game: San Quentin Kings

Thread: Re: VITALLY IMPORTANT often missed RULES

Jorune — 2008-07-31T14:20:32+00:00

Ah, number 2. We actually played it that EVERYONE got one commissary cube, but players with the 6 gang members got an extra 2 cubes, not one. The rules make it look like you get an extra 2.

Anthony

Thread: Re: A couple questions, and an inquiry for the designer?

denverarch — 2008-07-19T12:56:49+00:00

Great idea tying the game into some larger event per year.Looking forward to the exansion

Thread: Re: A couple questions, and an inquiry for the designer?

dragonblaster — 2008-07-13T21:08:47+00:00

Thanks a lot Will. I'll try to answer everything the best I can

frogmind wrote:
Is the number of shanks limited? If so how do you resolve who doesn't get one? Maybe having seven of each card like you mentioned would aid in this.

7 cards work best definitely email me your address so I can send you the few more. At one point 6 of each was fine, but I had made the cards before the playtesting was completely done and had added a tiny rule that can effect the amount of cards.

frogmind wrote:
Secondly, the bonuses only happen at the beginning of years two and three, but not before the riot?
This is correct. Also no solitary bonus after riot either.

frogmind wrote:
Not sure how this would play out, maybe a respect or goods bonus, or even a unique action at the end of a year for being the best to achieve the years' agenda (event). I just feel with this game taking place in San Quentin, there needs to be some sort of Johnny Cash and Charles Manson event somewhere. So are you still considering this?

Man that's a great idea. I was thinking of a very small expansion with a couple more situation oriented cards and a hospital that I took out of the original design. Something to sell at conventions if I can afford it. A pure event as something more to generate points is a fantastic idea..

Thanks Will you rule!

Thread: A couple questions, and an inquiry for the designer?

frogmind — 2008-07-13T02:20:40+00:00

Is the number of shanks limited? We reached a couple moments in the game where we ran out of shank cards, so it made it impossible for everyone to receive one at the beginning of a year. If so how do you resolve who doesn't get one? Maybe having seven of each card like you mentioned would aid in this.

Secondly, the bonuses only happen at the beginning of years two and three, but not before the riot?

The third question is more in line with the idea of a possible expansion you mentioned in another thread. I feel there may be room for an event card each year. Not sure how this would play out, maybe a respect or goods bonus, or even a unique action at the end of a year for being the best to achieve the years' agenda (event). I just feel with this game taking place in San Quentin, there needs to be some sort of Johnny Cash and Charles Manson event somewhere. So are you still considering this?

Thanks for a wonderful game. This is easily the best marriage of pure laugh-out-loud fun, and strong game play I have experienced in a long while.

Thread: Re: VITALLY IMPORTANT often missed RULES

Kalidor — 2008-07-06T21:16:42+00:00

Aha! That #2 rule was a big help! For some reason, in trying to commit these excellent rules to memory, to facilitate teaching it, I keep leaving that End Of Year process out!
#1 I recall well enough, and all of the other tidbits (there are not a lot and the rulebook is EXCELLENT) I'm good with...but that #2 reminder was a great call!!!
Thanks!

Thread: Opera Singer, Pregnant Mom fight it out in jail

denverarch — 2008-05-26T15:42:54+00:00

So after receiving San Quentin Kings from the designer I’ve been keen to see its reaction among gamers and non gamers alike. SQK is a self produced euro game set in an American prison where players fight, lift weights, and bribe to earn the most respect (victory points). I’ve demoed it twice at my normal game group and had mixed reviews; strangely enough the medium weigh gamers seem to like it more as the deeper gamers are put off by the luck in the “fight deck”. Since I don’t like to give up on game, and since I admire someone for self publishing a game, I wanted to give this game another try and see how if went over with a different gaming group: my wife and her opera singer friend! Honestly, the game has a unique theme and some nice mechanics and I wanted to see if this game was going to get play in my collection or if it was just a strange homebrew relegated to the back of the shelf.

It was a perfect day to try our SQK, as my wife’s friend was staying over after our 2 year old b-day party. Nothing is more wholesome than a prison. drug trade. smack down after a toddlers b-day party!

This game session coincided with the final realization that my wife and her friends are just as clever gamers as I am or any of my die hard game friends, except that tend to gravitate toward more social games with interaction regardless of whether they are “deep” games or not. If its interactive, and they like the theme they will grasp any “deep” game in seconds.

With that I explained the game as if they were die hard BGG geeks and it worked as both women quickly grasped the concept chuckling as I explain the gang members and fight mechanic.

Right out of the gate I was sent to parole, out of the game, and sent back a commissary cube care package. This got some laughs and I lost the fight. Ceiligh, the opera singer, caught on quick although she was sent to solitary first. Despite being frustrated this turned out to be a strategy all of its own.

SQK is low scoring till near the end, and Ceiligh’s solitary crazy gang strategy was working well. I was trying to increase my gang size and get a lot of commissary cubes. I was burned b the drug trade last game so I avoided the same mistake. Both ladies caught on quick and were laughing during brawl after brawl. My poor wife lost some hommies early, and her and Ceiligh had some “nerd smackdowns” as the smallest cube is a nerd gang members. We had some healthy 5 on 6 fights with out trusted nerds.

As the third year rolled around I had managed to win a number of fights and was well in the fight lead. The game ending brawl ensued and Ceiligh masterfully had arranged to have the biggest and toughest gang, earning the 2 final fight points. I still finished first in fights, but I could not compete with Ceiligh’s drug running empire, as she scored 2 drug bonuses and 2 gang size bonuses. She also had the craziest gang all three years for a whopping 6 respect points!

Final score
Ceiligh 45
Wade: 36
Hannah 20

All in all the game was a blast and only about an hour and 15 minutes. SQK earned a place of “respect” next to regular wife games like Ra, and Red Planet. She said she’s recommend it and that she had a great time. The set collection, push your luck, and resource management of gang members makes for an interesting mix with lots of laughter, frustration, and yes strategy. Now, playing the rules right, I find the luck much less a problem, and a strong strategy should reap rewards. My only advice” watch out for pregnant wives and opera singers: they’re dangerous.

Thread: VITALLY IMPORTANT often missed RULES

dragonblaster — 2008-05-23T19:29:55+00:00

Here's a couple rules I often hear from players that they missed in the rule book or overlooked when playing. These couple rules I find to be very important for the enjoyment and balance of the game.

1. Take 2 Guard Cards out of the fight deck for game set up. This assures the fight deck will only have 10 bad cards rather than 12 which makes a difference. The 2 extra cards are for a variant and possible expansion.

2. Always, at the beginning of every year (except the first year), players earn 1 Shank Card and 1 Commissary Cube. If a player has 6 scorpions (medium cubes) at this time he earns an a second shank card, and if a player has 6 tarantulas (small cubes) he earns a second commissary cube. This is a vital rule for year two and three. If not done it creates fun issues and makes it very hard to fight.

Thread: Re: When Good Cubes Go Bad, or Shank You Very Much for the Unique Game

dragonblaster — 2008-05-17T21:21:43+00:00

Thanks a million Wade for the review and Sean for the support. Now let's get crackin' on making some more kick ass games.

Thread: Re: When Good Cubes Go Bad, or Shank You Very Much for the Unique Game

onekccs — 2008-05-17T17:00:20+00:00

This is a great write-up, of a great game!

Good luck with this Nate, I am sure someone will pick this up eventually!

Sean

Thread: When Good Cubes Go Bad, or Shank You Very Much for the Unique Game

denverarch — 2008-05-17T14:57:24+00:00

San Quentin Kings
Designed, produced, marketed and sold by Nate Hayden
Players: 3-5, Blast City Games
Time: 90-120 minutes (usually around the 90 minute mark)

What's scarier than being in the American medical system for Europeans: being in our prison system! San Quentin Kings is a resource management and set collecting game located in an American prison. Now your first expectation is this is some type of Ameritrash game, dice, gore, “take that cards” but you would be wrong since it’s an innovative, entertaining and uniquely themed game. The bits and mechanics will be familiar to any seasoned eurogamer, even if the theme in not. If that wasn’t interesting enough, the game was designed, produced and developed by one person. It’s the first self produced game I’ve owned, and I must say I’m impressed. San Quentin Kings is a clever game that resists Ameritrash subject matter and delivers the theme in a rousing, entertaining, and engaging euro style game with a unique theme and interesting game play.
San Quentin Kings is an medium weight economic ands set collecting euro where players fight for items, and earn Respect (I.e. victory) points.

Components
Out of the box you will find your typical euro game fanfare of small, medium cubes chunky discs and some cardboard chits. The artwork may be a bit busy for me, and too amateurish for some, but the homegrown work done by Nate is a fantastic setting for the rough theme of gangland warfare and prison economics. Nate even interviewed an ex convict for his game allowing him to understand the subtle and violent economic system of an American prison. The rules are well done with lots of illustration and examples. The game ins not complex, but there are seven actions to understand. We learned the game from the designer and then thought it quickly from the rules, and had no problem finding information.

As I mentioned earlier those cubes are not for you turn marker or your worker placement actions: they are your hommies / gangmembers/ peepes! You have a small cube for you wimpy nerd gang member and he’s good with money and items, you have a medium cube who is good with item/shanks, and a chunky disc who is your tough goon gang member. You can even send your members to the weight room and pump them up for more respect or different sizes! This is just brilliant and adds to the humorous and entertaining theme.

The game board is a thin sheet of cardboard with a yard, and various “action” areas, sort of like Pillars of the Earth.

Game play
There are four “fight” actions for commissary cubes, shank cards, new gang members, and drugs, and three purchase” action involving the gym, Guard Station, and Cafeteria. Now Nate used euphemisms for drugs so you get white stallions or green monkeys, instead of heroine or cocaine. This was a nice choice to make the game more accessible to players who miught be bothered by obvious drugs in a game.

There is the gym where cubes can be pumped up to the next level, and big gang members earn one respect point. You can also buy guard bribes which allow you to redraw cards or beat down opponent’s gang pieces in fights. Finally, there is the cafeteria where you can use commissary cash to buy respect, shank cards, or drugs. Play rotates in a clockwise order, each new player choosing an area. When your gang members finish a fight or action they go into “the yard”, a nice touch. At the end of round three there is a prison wide brawl with all of the pieces for two fight points. Nothing ends a prison euro like a prison wide brawl!

Fights
Of course with this title fighting needs its own section. This is probably the most entertaining and controversial section of the game. Same people love it and other people get very frustrated. I read the game notes and Nate states that fighting in prison is obviously risky and so he reflected that situation in a fight deck. When one of the four fight actions in chosen players decided secretly how many gang members to send to the fight. They then can either pass, draw a card, or play a shank card. The player with the most gang members of any type wins 1st., 2nd 3rd etc. All three take some items, everyone else is left bruised and bloody.

I was very impressed with the interesting euro mechanic of the fights. The trick is to avoid drawing from the deck too much, however if you opponents gain a lead you are forced to draw if you want to win the fight, fight points, and glory. Placing is good but the player with the most fight points win a considerable bonus. In the fight deck there are matching small, medium, and large gang member cards, plus solitary confinement, parole cards, stealing drugs or shanks, and a death card. Yep, your boys can die, be sent away for parole (in which case they send back a care package commissary cube), or sent to solitary.

So after three rounds of fighting the brawl resolves, there are tie breakers printed on the game board so the small gang type wins ties for commissary, the medium wins shanks etc. It’s a nice system, however luck driven it may be. Again, as I am learning with euro games with luck, the strategy is in avoiding being placed in the situation where drawing cards makes or breaks your position. Instead you must watch the card distribution. There are 8 solitary cards, 1 death, and 1 parole. If you’ve seen 6 solitary cards, it’s probably time to draw that toothbrush knife and step in!

Scoring
Another nice design aspect is that you score points for most everything in SQK. Whether its drug king pin, commissary king, or fight lords, you will score VP for most everything you collect or should I say “are left with” when the gas clears. Not sure about you but I tend to enjoy games where I feel like I’m able to “get stuff” often even if I don’t win, it ties me to the theme, and gives me choices since numerous actions cost commissary or items: prison cash!
At the end of the game points are awarded for:

Fight Kings (most fight points) 14,11,7,4,1 (ties drop down a level)
Drug King Most white brown and green drugs score points
Crew King: Most small, medium, and large gang members earn respect
Most commissary earns 3 respect,
Most shanks earn 3
And each bribe chip is 2 respect.
Round Three Prison riot: winner gets 2 fight points
Each round: most men in solitary get 2 respect (craziest gang!)

Most Respect wins!

Conclusion
The mechanics will be familiar to any euro gamer as the theme will not. The mechanics are so well integrated into the theme and game play that you can't help but enjoy this homemade gem. Fights are common and based on a push your luck system with a heaping of luck. However, where and when you fight is up to you, and wagering how many hommies to risk and which fights are important to other people is a strategic skill all under your control. Plus, the fights are just plain fun! They could have been done in a dice fest, Ameritrash manner, but the simultaneous action selection and push your luck fight deck make it much more interesting.

The three sizes of gang members are just hilarious and actually very strategic. Plus you can "pump up" your scrawny cubes into muscle men discs for more "respect"= more points. Honestly, this is a great game for a medium weight, strategic, set-collecting euro with a unique theme that is well integrated into the mechanics. It not for everyone, but many will enjoy it as a change of pace, and entertaining evening closer or opener. Some might hate the push your luck and random draw fight mechanic, others will despise the fact that you can steal things from other players but hey, guess what, it’s a game about prison economics, so of course there’s going to be some competition and backstabbing.

If things always went the way you expected: guess what, you wouldn’t be in prison!

Final Verdict
During both outings some said the game was better than Utopia, Medieval Merchants, and El Captain all professionally produced games. I tend to agree that it’s at least good as many of the average professional euros I encounter these days. The length may be a bit long for what it is but a group of five of us sped along nicely. I’d rate it a 7 because I’m not sure I’d always have the right group of people for this one, but some may rate it as an 8 for the fun and unique theme. Plus it’s just fun if you can embed yourself in the theme and just enjoy yourself. After my last game I was left thinking about different strategies and moves, so it’s not your beer and pretzel (or shanks and cigarette?) games like the theme might suggest.

I received game number 140 and he only produced 200, so I recommend everyone get one now while he still has some remaining. With exchange rate of the euro, I think Nate will have to pay you to take his game. Otherwise for Americans it's a great deal for 25$ Finally, the nice thing is that the game comes in a small, thin, cardboard box: easy enough to smuggle into any prison.

Thread: Re: General Q&A

denverarch — 2008-05-06T22:02:19+00:00

Wow, with questions like these this game is going to have to be fun!

Thread: Re: Attending Genghis Con 2008

dragonblaster — 2008-02-13T19:53:40+00:00

Double checked the website. I start a 5pm not 7pm. Now I too can hopefully play Starcraft.

Thread: Re: Attending Genghis Con 2008

bravhart007 — 2008-02-12T21:13:13+00:00

WhiteKong wrote:
dragonblaster wrote:
I'll be demoing San Quentin Kings this Friday February 15 in Denver at Genghis Con. I'll start at 7pm. I love this convention. It's relaxing and filled with great people, and of course great games. Hope to see you there.

Bummer. I actually pre-registered to try this game out at 5:00 PM. At 7:00 that overlaps with Starcraft, so I guess I am out.

I will be the one running Starcraft but I will wander over and check it out!!! Sound fun!!!

-Matt

Thread: Re: Attending Genghis Con 2008

WhiteKong — 2008-02-12T21:01:15+00:00

dragonblaster wrote:
I'll be demoing San Quentin Kings this Friday February 15 in Denver at Genghis Con. I'll start at 7pm. I love this convention. It's relaxing and filled with great people, and of course great games. Hope to see you there.

Bummer. I actually pre-registered to try this game out at 5:00 PM. At 7:00 that overlaps with Starcraft, so I guess I am out.

Thread: Attending Genghis Con 2008

dragonblaster — 2008-02-12T20:19:21+00:00

I'll be demoing San Quentin Kings this Friday February 15 in Denver at Genghis Con. I'll start at 7pm. I love this convention. It's relaxing and filled with great people, and of course great games. Hope to see you there.

EDIT: LOOKED ON WEBSITE. I BEGIN A 5pm NOT 7pm.

Thread: General rules Q&A

dragonblaster — 2007-11-15T22:32:01+00:00

People ask questions through email and I'll post them here for everybody. I'll update as I get more questions.

If only two players choose to take part in a certain fight, will one of the non-fighters get the third place by sitting close to the initiator? (We guessed no)

You are correct. A player must have a member represented in the fight.

If a player´s guys are wiped out during a fight, can he still get 2nd or 3rd place if only 2 or 3 players were fighting? (We guessed yes)

Answer is NO. Same as above, players must have a member represented in the fight. The guards or other players have successfully knocked this player out of the fight.

If a player´s guys are wiped out during a fight, can that player still draw Fight Cards and throw those nasty Bribe Chips for the remaining rounds?

No they can't. This player has been destroyed in the fight and can not play bribe chips or fight cards.

A question about the gym: Is the maximum number of gang members in the gym 3 in total, or 3 for each player?

Each player may dedicate 3 gang members of their choice to the gym.

Let's say we have a fight, and I bribe one of your gang members to fight one my side. Then I draw the "gravestone" fight card, meaning that one of my guys dies permanently. Can I then have the guy I bribed from you killed, instead of one of my original guys?

You can kill just you own guys, BUT you can kill a bribed piece if it's the only remaining piece(s) left fighting that is representing you.

Thread: Re: Pumping Iron

dragonblaster — 2007-10-30T18:20:40+00:00

Although difficult, it's actually possible to win the entire lot of goods and a victory with one gang member. It's smart in a 3-player game to put at least one gang member in every fight. But putting one gang member in a fight is very risky though, especially if you're drawing cards. If a bad card is drawn and you have only one guy in there you will lose everything unless you have some guard influence. Also a player can earn nothing if he has one guy in the fight and someone uses guard influence to bribe the gang member or kill him. But in a three player game most of the time if you put at least one gang member into a fight you will earn at least one item.

The Broncos game was pretty embarassing last night. Usually Denver has good teams. Strange.

Thread: Re: Pumping Iron

Stagg999 — 2007-10-30T00:05:40+00:00

Played again tonight with a couple for the first time, who were both very impressed. Sadly they have no BGG accounts so can't rate it, but good feedback. One question arose. We felt that in a three player, you should only get the minimum one 'prize' in a fight if you committed at least one cube to a fight. We did this to avoid someone stacking heavily in other fights because they knew that they would still get one min. bonus even without committing to a later fight.

It seemed to work well as we had no fights with only two players in (which are a little more boring) and people were more likely to try in a fight and maybe get lucky.

The points were quite spread out and i came second. Paid too much attention to the fight point bonus and not enough to drugs which i see as higher value now due to you get all the points and others get nothing. One girl (who's initial motivation for collecting drugs was she owns a horse) won two of the drugs and thus had a huge difference over us, compared to the three or four point bonus of the fight points.

As for the baseball, yes I watched the collapse. It looked like the Rockies were just happy to be there. Sadly another money team wins it all. We had a little football fever in the UK this weekend as the Dolphins and Giants hit town (I live in Germany but am back in England for a few days). Not a great game, but it was a 90,000 sell out and they are already talking about another game next year.

Hope all is well, and thanks for replying to the question,
Shaun

Thread: Re: Pumping Iron

dragonblaster — 2007-10-28T20:28:21+00:00

This is correct. Only members not in the yard, and also a maximum of 3 pieces can be dedicated to the Gym action.

Small cubes pump into medium cubes, medium cubes pump into large cylinders, and each large cylinder used in the action earns 1 respect.

This world series has been a mess, hopefully the Broncos can do something, but they too have been pretty terrible this year.

Thread: Pumping Iron

Stagg999 — 2007-10-28T14:40:41+00:00

Hi Nate,

Met you at Essen, great game, hope it was a success. Quick question about building guys up in the gym. Presumably, you can only pump up cell members that you still have available in that round (not from the yard). Or have i misinterpreted this?

Best of luck, go Broncos!
Shaun

Thread: new cards 'peeling off'

dragonblaster — 2007-10-19T22:24:00+00:00

The cards have some sort of lamanation to them which has stuck to themselves when opening a new pack. Once flexed and flipped through they come apart okay but some have stuck so well they have peeled off. I apologize please email me to get replacement cards if this occurs. thanks.

nate
ngwttintl@earthlink.net

Thread: Components TYPO

dragonblaster — 2007-10-19T22:17:38+00:00

Someone pointed out a typo in the components section I overlooked. It says there are 7 of each type of shank card. Actually there are only 6 of each type. I typed the wrong number. Now that I think about it 7 would be good. 6 of each type should work out fine but if you think you need 7 of each email me at

ngwttintl@earthlink.net

Thread: Cell Public Knowledge

dragonblaster — 2007-10-16T16:53:30+00:00

A player's "cell" is public knowledge. Meaning the amount of every item a player own's including commissary, shanks, gang members, drugs and bribe chips is public knowledge. Obviously the type of drugs and shanks are always hidden face down, but the amount is public knowledge.

While preparing to fight players may hide gang member in hands while selecting. Otherwise knowledge is open.

Image

dragonblaster — 2007-10-02T21:51:40+00:00

inside the box (not all wood pieces shown)

Image

dragonblaster — 2007-10-02T21:36:43+00:00

box

Thread: Re: Essen Spiel '07

dragonblaster — 2007-09-25T21:16:46+00:00

Thanks guys. Paul Bryant thanks again for the cold testing. It helped greatly. You got a game coming your way. They won't be completely finished until I pick up my remaining game pieces in Germany. I'll mail one to you when I get home.

Paul Smith, thanks for the pointers. Skrall looks great. You guys did a great job at Gen Con. I've been hearing the buzz, and can't wait to play it.

Thread: Re: Essen Spiel '07

riledguy — 2007-09-25T20:49:55+00:00

I can attest to this game being a good time. I would suggest folks go give it a try. I know the theme may not be as exciting as planting crops or impressing royalty is to some folks but it is fun.

Thread: Re: Essen Spiel '07

Thabiti — 2007-09-25T20:30:45+00:00

Hey Nathan!

Your game looks pretty cool. A new face in the game design world. Welcome.

Good luck! If you can, you should take all the games. My partner and I rolled out our first game at GenCon this year. We sold out. If we had more, we would have sold more. The last day we were standing in front of an empty booth. It was crazy!

Don't forget to stay on your feet and keep the energy really high for everyone. That and lots and lots of water. Anthony and I drank 6 bottles a day, each.

The very best of luck, I look forward to your post-Essen post!

Thabiti, Skrall.

Thread: Essen Spiel '07

dragonblaster — 2007-09-25T20:15:27+00:00

Spiel '07 is fast approaching and I'm very excited. I'll be in Hall 4 Booth 70 if anyone is interested in playing San Quentin Kings.

San Quentin King is a hand made, home published game. I've made up 200 copies of the game to sell, but I am only bringing 100 to Essen. I will have copies to play at the entire convention.

The theme of the game may not be for everyone. But for those who have an opprtunity to play it I promise a fun and an educational experience. The game is medium heavy in weight. I've designed it to be more of a gamers game. You'll have to be the judge.

As a gamer I'm interested in heavier games that also are very thematic. Games that are not afraid to go the distance are my faves. I hope as a designer I can do the same.

See you all real soon.

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dragonblaster — 2007-09-05T22:34:51+00:00

contraband

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dragonblaster — 2007-09-05T22:14:55+00:00

unfortunate result fight cards

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dragonblaster — 2007-09-05T22:07:12+00:00

fight cards - gang member types

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dragonblaster — 2007-09-05T21:56:23+00:00

Fight Cards

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dragonblaster — 2007-09-04T22:56:30+00:00

game board

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dragonblaster — 2007-07-16T23:41:35+00:00