Game: Battleground: Crossbows & Catapults War Chest Starter Set

Thread: Re: Crossbows and Catapults Musings

caradoc — 2008-08-25T08:19:10+00:00

Awesome article! This is a fun fun game, glad to see you and your friends enjoy it asmuch as me and my friends do!!

Cheers,

Giles.

Thread: Re: Crossbows and Catapults Musings

dbc- — 2008-08-25T07:26:02+00:00

fastbilly1 wrote:
Usually used as a last ditch weapon, the Castle Catapult is surprisingly a great weapon. It has a very long range, is very accurate, but your aiming options are almost non existent. You have a very slight, almost negligible amount of an arc you can fire on (based on how you pull back the catapult) so it is really a straight shot.
Just took a look at the FAQ.
You are actually allowed to turn the castle prior to firing.

Image

Jonesey — 2008-08-10T05:03:01+00:00

War Chest Starter Set and Towers - Knights Side

Thread: Re: Game on clearance at Target for $17.48

droberts441 — 2008-08-04T04:22:19+00:00

Duglis wrote:
$6.24 in Fullerton, California
Same in Sacramento....got one today.

Thread: Re: Game on clearance at Target for $17.48

Duglis — 2008-08-03T05:45:45+00:00

$6.24 in Fullerton, California

Thread: Re: Game on clearance at Target for $17.48

clockwirk — 2008-08-03T02:52:19+00:00

$6.24 in Lakeville, MN. I picked up two.

Thread: Re: Crossbows and Catapults Musings

fastbilly1 — 2008-07-31T11:50:38+00:00

Mr. Pederson, thank you for the correction. I guess I did not read the rules correctly for that expansion. However I still prefer the firing it back approach.

Thread: Re: Crossbows and Catapults Musings

dbc- — 2008-07-31T07:35:15+00:00

Didn't have time to read the whole article but one thing caught my attention:
fastbilly1 wrote:
The Knight Battering Ram... To even out the destructive edge that it has we have created two sets of house rules that we will use based on who is playing. Either it is only a two use weapon or, the one I prefer, the Orcs can send it back (and vice versa) but it can only be used after the 7th or 8th turn.
The Battering Ram is a two use weapon. No need for house ruling...
Otherwise, nice article.

Thread: Crossbows and Catapults Musings

fastbilly1 — 2008-07-31T02:02:31+00:00

After countless hours of play I have thought of a few bits I thought I would pass along, or atleast muse about and post so others can either learn from it or just laugh at it. I know a few of those who will read it are crusing the site looking for whatever they can about the game before they buy it, it might actually help them more than those who actually play the game…

First off I should mention that the vast majority of the games I have played were with people in the 18-34 age range, with most of them 23+. So most of are post college/university age and few have children. Out of my regular group of six, only two of us played it as a child and most of the people I have shown it to have never heard of it. The oldest was in his early 70s, the youngest was 10. I have yet to find someone who does not enjoy atleast one game of it. If you have read my review, you know I only owned the Tower expansion for six months and played it probably forty hours. Since I have bought the standard game I quit keeping track of time played even remotely. It is a simple game and well worth your time to play it. Is it worth the time I took to think and write all this up, no. But I did it on a couple lunch breaks when I would have been sleeping anyway. For the record, I do not have a child and own multiple sets of the game and most of the saga (if anyone wants to sell/trade for a red dragon let me know – I can fix them aslong as the outside is fine).

This is article is broken up in a couple parts:
Boards
Weapons
Gamestyles/Strategys
Ideas for expansion

Board:
There are three standard board types that you will most likely play the majority of your games on: Carpet, Wood, Cloth, and a plethora of types you will probably not play on: Brick, Plastic, Glass, Dirt, Sand, Tile, Rubber, Linoleum, Metal, etc.

I have found out the following about the different types:
Carpet:
Like you would imagine, catapults rule the carpet. Not only do they ignore the uneven terrain on there way to their target, they have mostly uncontrollable bounces after they land (thanks to the ridges and bumps on the caroms themselves). I have seen a misfired catapult shot, land and roll into an enemy infantry four feet away and behind a wall. Sure it is a very rare occurrence, more often than not they will just bounce in a random direction after they land, usually away from the action or at the opposing player. I prefer the carpet boards for this fact alone. Sure they make the crossbows fairly worthless, unless you have risers, but the sheer random aspect adds to the fun. However the buildings (most notably the prison towers from the expansion) like to fall on carpet, but I like to think it adds more obstacles to the game, also crushing an enemies unit with a building is just demeaning.

Wood:
Opposite than carpet, the crossbow rules the wood. Catapults are still fantastic, but on a good wood floor the stock crossbow can travel a long distance (roughly eight feet is our record). Catapults do have one awesome aspect though, they bounce really high. It is possible to misfire and have the shot bounce over the defenders walls into their base with relative ease. Wood is often the most played board and only has one problem that I can think of, it can be noisy. The caroms like to make a loud chinking noise when they bounce on the table. No more than a Crinkole board, but after a while it can be a little annoying. I have played most of my games on a wood board, mainly since we don’t put the tablecloth out any of the places I eat dinner until a few minutes prior, if we use a table cloth at all.

Cloth:
Cloth is neck and neck with wood for most common board type. A simple table cloth can alter the game quite a bit. With it the crossbow goes from being the killer weapon to even with the catapult. No longer do their caroms fly far and fast, just midrange. The catapults do not bounce in as random as a pattern as the carpet or as high as on the wood but it makes the game even for the weapons and makes you actually choose which one you need to use and when. If I ever run a tournament in the game it will be on a tablecloth or bed sheet with no ridges, it is the most balanced the board I have found.

Sand and Dirt:
Similar to carpet, the catapult is the only weapon of use and it does not bounce. I have only toyed around with these two and plan to actually play some real games when I go to the beach. However playing on these boards you have one very interesting element to factor in, wind. Wind can make the catapult useless in that now it fires twenty feet with no effort, ok that was exaggerated but it got the point across. Dirt can be heavily compacted then it plays in between the wood and cloth – low bounce and decent for crossbows.

Brick:
Brick plays a lot like carpet, except the fact that the mortar joist usually cause the carom to fly. It is an interesting playing field but most tactics that apply to carpet work well here.

Plastic, Glass, Linoleum, Tile, and Metal:
All play similar to wood. They become very crossbow heavy due to the accuracy and distance they travel. Metal is a mixed bag, but most of the time it plays like wood. Do be careful when playing on these though, metal does heat up and melts plastic fairly quickly. Tile has the grout grooves that brick has while being smooth like glass it is one of my favorite boards.

Rubber:
Rubber is a tough one to crack. Your crossbow can be absolutely worthless and your catapults can be crap in the same game, or it can play like carpet with wood’s bounce. On hard rubber, crossbow shots usually travel a short distance and catapults cause caroms to bounce fairly high. While on a softer rubber it is usually the reverse. On some types of rubber, nothing you try works. However odds are you will not be playing on a rubber board so none of this really matters. I only did it because we played on an inflatable mattress and some rubber tiles.

Weapons:
Crossbows:
Pros:
Supremely accurate at short – midrange, decently accurate at long range.
Perfect for sniping off individual units
Easy to aim and use

Cons:
Efficiency is heavily dependent on the board type
Low power - Can only be used to push bricks at enemies hidden behind them (which can kill them outright)
You only get one?

The crossbow plays a lot more like the one from Weapons and Warriors than the original Crossbows and Catapults. While it does have some heft to its shots, in my games it often is used primarily to knock out stragglers and infantry. If someone is good with the crossbow they can take out the entire force with it in short time, but most people end up using it just for what I just described. It is heavily affected by the board type, from supreme to useless, but if you allow risers it can change the game some. With risers (I use black risers from Lowes used when you are putting in a Pergo floor – they are like short doorstops and are only about a quarter of an inch high, covered in ducktape for a slick surface) you have alittle bit of a arc, not enough to get over two brick walls but enough to travel a couple feet. Some people consider this cheating, but that is why you get both sides to agree on it beforehand. Overall I really like the crossbow – that explains why the list is alittle onesided. Even on carpet it can be a hoot, especially when you shoot and it bounces back and kills one of your own men.

Catapults:
Pros:
Great for getting over those pesky walls
Initial shot is not affected by terrain, the after shot is however
Good power for taking out walls from the top down

Cons:
Learning curve to properly use (not a bad one but it is there)

The learning curve is not bad, a few games or about thirty minutes (whichever comes first) and you will have most of the intricacies figured out. With practice it becomes the best weapon, since it can negates walls and terrain, but it has a small arc of fire (we need a trebuchet with similar power to the Weapons and Warriors one). It has enough power to knock buildings over on all types of board while still being good enough to knock down a single man. However it does have wheels, so one well placed shot from an enemy and it can roll over your men. Mastering the catapult is critical to your success if you play on a variety of surfaces, however the game is a lot more fun if you just start firing it blindly while on carpet.

Cannons:
We do not use the cannons very often, atleast not enough for me to weigh in on them, though I do really like the style of them. It just does not make sense to me to play Crossbows and Catapults with a cannon, even though it worked so well with Weapons and Warriors. I have found with a doubled up rubber band on each side the Cannon is just a ballista and can decimate forces from some distance away – elevated crossbow is the best description I have seen. To be honest I have never actually used one in a game, all of my experience comes from shooting at my and my friends cats from six feet away.

Castle Catapult:
Pros:
Long range

Cons:
Not aimable

Usually used as a last ditch weapon, the Castle Catapult is surprisingly a great weapon. It has a very long range, is very accurate, but your aiming options are almost non existent. You have a very slight, almost negligible amount of an arc you can fire on (based on how you pull back the catapult) so it is really a straight shot. Where it does become powerful is when your castle is directly infront of your enemies. If that is the case you can take out the castle in the first shot of the game – I have done it more than once. Overall it is only a soso weapon, since it is stuck with a straight line of fire, but it can be very powerful with proper timing and aiming.

Expansion Weapons (Knight’s first, Orc’s second):
Battering Ram:
Pros:
Broken

Cons:
Broken

The Knight Battering Ram is the single most devastating weapon on the battlefield. It is a windup car that can easily run through walls of any sort. The actual battering ram part is a hit or miss affair, but the car does more than enough damage to make up for it. To give you an example of how broken this weapon is the fifth game I used it I took out three infantry, seven blocks, and set the castle on fire, this was on the second turn. To even out the destructive edge that it has we have created two sets of house rules that we will use based on who is playing. Either it is only a two use weapon or, the one I prefer, the Orcs can send it back (and vice versa) but it can only be used after the 7th or 8th turn. The former makes sense for tactical reasons, the latter makes the game quicker in that the “nuke,” as we have affectionally started to call it, is very useful in cleaning up those enemies who are well fortified thus shortening those long stalemates.

*As Mr. Pedersen pointed out below, the Battering Ram is a two use weapon. Though I still favor the idea that the Orcs get to send it back. Thank you again Mr. Pedersen.

Trebuchet:
Pros:
Two projectiles for one Action
Decently accurate

Cons:
Awful construction quality

I am a big fan of Trebuchets, so much so that I have owned several decent sized ones in the past. Throwing payloads high above the enemy so they come raining down on them from a far greater distance than a standard catapult may be brilliant, however how they function is infinity more interesting. The Trebuchet that we have for Crossbows and Catapults is a sham. It is a double catapult with a little flick at the end of its throw. When playing with standard rules it is alittle better than a standard catapult but falls flat when you have to repair it after a few shots – the flicking part likes to fly off if you use two rubberbands (atleast mine likes to).

Gatling Gun:
Pros:
Two projectiles for one Action
Looks cool

Cons:
Everything else

Ascribing to the school of thought of “it looks good on paper” we have the Gatling Gun. While it is not utterly worthless, with one rubberband there is no reason to use it except as cover for your catapults. After stacking five caroms into it, you get to spin the wheel and hope for the best. Usually they just fall out, or only travel a few inches. Even with six rubberbands on it your results will be mixed. I figure a spring may fix this but have yet to find one of the right size. While it looks great and sounds great, it is a disappointment. Many consider it a sequel to the base game cannon. While it may look that way, just use the standard cannon.

Now I do plan on outfitting mine with a spring, I think that might fix the power issue.

Triple Catapult:
Pros:
Three projectiles for one Action
Rolling shots

Cons:
Low Accuracy
Shots may roll past target

One of my personal favorite weapons in the game, the Triple Catapult gives the spontaneous and frantic sense of the game a new whirl. Instead of the flat position that the caroms sit on the normal catapult, the Triple Catapult has a bucket which holds them vertically. So when you fire it, instead of plopping like a standard shot, they roll. And boy how do they roll. Since the caroms like to turn to the side the divots protrude from they are woefully inaccurate at first glance. Though with some tweaking and practice it can become a very powerful weapon for your long distance shots. I am still waiting to see someone who is good enough with it to take out three separate infantry with the rollers.

Double Crossbow:
I rarely see the Double Crossbow used so it is hard for me to make a fair assessment of its merit in battle

Pros:
Elevated Crossbow (not effected by terrain as much)
Two projectiles for one action
Accurate

Cons:
Low power

Even with the extra leverage and the ability to angle it skyward, the double crossbow just falls short. Its accuracy is top notch, however its power is only soso. I believe this stems from the fact that it has less than an inch of space before it is airborne. But like I said before, I rarely see this one on the field.

Mortar Cannon:
Pros:
Unpredictable
Devastating when used properly

Cons:
Accuracy…
Unpredictable
Specialized ammunition

Now this is what I call an expansion weapon. Not only does it look awesome, it has specialized ammunition and is nigh unpredictable. Firing rubber rocks in an upward angle, the Mortar is completely unpredictable past direction of the first shot. The ammunition is a set of rubber boulders/rocks that are molded out of the same material as bouncy balls. Meaning they will strike the ground and then bounce at random for a distance. This random factor makes the weapon a wild card, which is why I love it. Several times I have had a pretty shot fly into my enemies infantry only to bounce back and take out my own. We usually limit the amount of boulders one can fire due to these factors – take note that an upside down carom fires out of the mortar just fine.

To me this is what the game is about. It is a weapon that usually causes you as much damage as it does to the enemy. It is stylized and simply fun to fire. If only I could buy just the mortar and some more boulders separately.

Gamestyles:
I have found that with my group there are usually three rulesets we play with:
Standard rules
Lite/Skirmish rules
Roleplay rules

Of those the Lite/Skirmish rules are often the most played since beer is involved or because we just do not want to think. But once we figure out a working Roleplay set it will probably take over. Oddly we do not play with either the original Crossbows and Catapults ruleset or Little Wars rules often, even though they both make for fantastic games.

Standard:
Standard rules are what you can imagine, the rules that come with the game. They are simple and work, but they are not as fluid as we hoped. Typically the two strategies that come into play are rushing with the crossbow and your hero or turtling. If you are unaware of the term “turtling” it is simply playing a full defensive game. It applies more to strategy games (ie a turtle tactic in Risk would be to take Australia and stack your armies in Indonesia or Guam), but in Crossbows and Catapults it means you do not send your infantry out in the field. They are safely hidden in your base(s) and always are on hand to operate your siege engines. I have found that the people who are experts with the catapults usually turtle the catapult behind a double height wall in the front of the castle, with the crossbow nearby for picking off advances. It does mean the majority of their force is in one place, but the last game I saw when the player used this strategy was over in seven turns.

Lite/Skirmish:
The ruleset we use for skirmish is simply build your base with a handful of blocks and maybe the castle or tower and place your men. On your turn you can fire your weapon from behind your castle/tower/arbitrary line, and you get two shots a turn (or one D3 if you like dice). Whoever has the last man standing wins. Sure it takes out the majority of in game strategy but it is more like the game we used to play as children and makes the game an extremely light wargame. When we just had the tower pack to play with, we mainly played this style and it was a hoot every time. The games were quick enough that we could play our fill then move on, but engaging enough that I found myself doodling on a napkin at a restaurant the best defense I could make with five blocks to hide four men. Granted playing it this way we also discovered a beer bottlecap is the right size to be fired from a catapult, but we moved on after we discovered that they really really hurt when you get hit with them (I promise you we were not drunk when we thought of and tried this – we actually rarely drink).

Roleplay:
Mixing in elements of Fantasy Wargames, Roleplaying games, and the original Crossbows and Catapults we started experimenting with a roleplaying gamestyle. Sure it is more of a light Fantasy Wargame, but it is easier to explain to none gamers as a roleplaying game. I will type up the rules for this soon, just want to get some more playtime in with it to make it flow atleast as good as the base game (I am also looking for more suitable minis to make images with – right now I am using a lot of 25mm armymen). You would be surprised how difficult it is to add in more rules while keeping the game easy and not just frantic. Most of this came from a quick conversation we had and my frantic handwriting is about as easy to read as the language of the birds. But I will say a few things:

1. Several unit types that are both carom and figure based.
2. Traditional unit types will be first to be perfected – melee infantry, bowyers, siege, cavalry, wizard, basic monsters, etc. More advanced/specific ones will be figured out as time goes on.
3. There will be an optional level up system for the commander so a “campaign” of sorts will be possible.
4. Scenario play
5. I am trying to figure out both point base and draw base systems for drafting an army (so both camps are happy).

Out of all the units we are playing with right now the only one you may not be able to guess how it works is the Wizard:

Wizards are put in play the same way as in the Dragon expansion – you fire the carom from your home catapult and can then use the wizard from that location. They move 3 inches instead of the standard 6 and can walk through rubble left on the battlefield (if you do not play with rubble rules this is not important) aswell as any terrain they can pass completely through (if you are playing with terrain). He/She instantly looses in melee combat but can destroy enemy figurines at range of 8 inches. They cannot move and attack on the same turn. If the wizard carom lands within 6 inches of an enemy unit, castle, or tower, they are captured. Your wizard is a carom and not a figure so it is not possible to knock them over, but if you do hit the wizard carom with another carom the wizard is considered defeated.

Generic Strategy:
There are only a handful of things that you “need” know about Crossbows and Catapults:
Mastering the catapult will mean you almost always will win.
Rushing the hero forward with a crossbow is risky but can be a game winner.
Even the best built fortification will be destroyed by the battering ram.

Ideas for expansion:
New siege engines – Any spring powered toy where there is atleast a 90degree arc forwards is viable. Look at the original Giants/Titans expansions for a similar idea.
Four army play – Meaning painting tips to make the other armies look like the baseset ones.
More Scenarios – The two we are given on the site are ok, but not enough.

Ok so my friends and I have put way to much thought into a game designed for six year olds. And I am sure that many of you who have read this far think that I am really crazy or just have to much free time. But atleast it is keeping me from buying more arcade games…Your thoughts?

Thread: User Review

fastbilly1 — 2008-07-31T01:40:34+00:00

Alittle prescript – If there is a rule conflict in my review, please tell me. As much as I like to think I and my group can understand any game put in front of us, we do make mistakes. When dealing with games, often these mistakes last for several months before I finally get a rules correction. Which explains why my gaming group started out hating some of the games we now love. Also, this will be updated as time goes on for grammar, content, and ofcourse updates. That out of the way:

Crossbows and Catapults is one of those few iconic boardgames from the late 70s early 80s for America children. Like Heroquest many of us growing up in the 70s and 80s have fond memories of countless hours of dungeon diving and laying siege to each others castles. However the game eventually fell to the wayside and appeared lost. There was an resurgence with Weapons and Warriors, but the marble mechanic did not have the same feel. It was great, do not get me wrong, many days of highschool revolved around firing marbles at my little brother and friends, but it really did not click. I think the best way to explain this feeling is with a Lego metaphor: The older sets had very few specialized pieces while the newer ones have very few standard. It also could be explained as Weapons and Warriors felt specialized while Crossbows and Catapults felt open. However I enjoy both very much so let’s get back to talking about the new version.

I had known the game had been re-released for sometime but had not brought myself to buy it until I had dinner with a friend. He was telling me about an old game he played with his brother when they were younger. Something about firing disc at flesh coloured army men and sure enough it was Crossbows and Catapults. A few days later I ended up at a Target and found the game. $45 was a bit steep for the baseset (granted those new Heroscape mastersets kept screaming at me) so I decided to grab the Tower expansion instead – which rang up at $5 instead of the advertised $15. We just wanted to try the game and the Tower expansion came with two catapults and eight men. Later that day I arrived at that friends’ house and we had a chance to play. The field was only three feet long but it was enough to tell us we needed more.

Since that time I have kept the expansion in my trunk of my car just in case. I have brought it out ten or twenty times for random gatherings of people. From older members of my church to ten year olds, anime fans to tournament video game players, and ofcourse the same set of friends I bought it for, always to a good reception. Playing with standard and lite/skirmish rules, the simple 4 man teams have defended bases all over the Southeast US and have not let me down yet. So if you are squeamish to plunk down the $30+ on the base set, try to get a copy of the expansion. It is missing a lot of components, namely flags and crossbows, but it will give you a taste for the game. The strategies and tactics needed for the “skirmish” expansion version and the full game are vast, mainly due to more options, but if you enjoy the taste in the expansion, then you have a good base to expand on.

If you are a fan of HG Wells Little Wars you already have a jump on the rules. A move and shoot mechanic is in play along with an action point system. Simply put, every turn you have two action points to do with as you please. Be it fire a siege engine, move an infantry, or move a siege engine, the choice is yours. To fire a siege engine you must have infantry within two inches and each one can be fired only once per turn. There is also a hero unit that is your last to die and can move at double pace and flags that can be knocked down so you can revive a character. But the entire concept of the game is this: You have a castle, you assemble the walls and place your troops, then attempt to take out the enemies forces before they take yours out.

Complex? No.
A nominee for Mensa Select? No.
A whole mess of fun? Yes.

The rules are functional and leave room for expansion if you so choose, nothing more nothing less.

Component-wise the bricks and caroms feel lighter than the original, while the catapults feel alittle more rugged. The catapults actually have different levels of tension based on built in teeth grips, how effective they are is another question all together. Just as a heads up the crossbow will bow with a bigger rubberband/to many rubberbands, and while they have rubber stoppers (unlike the originals) they can still break quite spectacularly, however they work and that is all that matters. The units are of a cheesy sculpts but are quite usable and fit the game, while the blocks bring us back to our initial problem. They seem to be quite strong but they are fairly lightweight. While that is a good thing for storage and transportation, it means mixing in older weapons may be a bad idea. Now I felt the lighter caroms were a mixed blessing, no more bruises from playing a boardgame, but they did lack the punch to really blow through the block walls – which is always a beautiful thing. With the lighter bricks it makes sense that the caroms are lighter, so like I said it is a mixed blessing. Personally I find the lighter materials great, less weight with little lost is always a plus to me.

Now I know that basing ones opinion of a game solely on an expansion is silly. However the game has become a must have for my group of non gamer friends, which is astounding at that. It is simple, fun, and challenging. For an “every once and a while games” it is perfect. A beer and pretzels game that will get everyone hooting and hollering for a couple hours, one that you can play with your children then a couple hours later play with your buddies. The only downsides are it can be expensive and the game itself takes up a fair amount of space (a 3 foot by 5 foot playfield is recommended). I view this series just like Loopin Louie; it was created to be a child’s game, but it has universal appeal.

So in short:
If you are a fan of shooting things at other things, buy this game.
If you are interested in the concept of shooting things at other things, play a friends copy or buy the tower expansion and see if you like the game.
If you are a fan of HG Wells Little Wars, buy this game - it is close to a modern recreation.
If you have cats and like to pepper them with projectiles, buy this game.
If you have children or teenagers who think boardgaming is beneath them while they plug away at the latest first person shooter, buy this game and teach them how we had to frag each other before we had Doom and Wolf 3d.
If you think these comments have little to do with everything else posted above, you are right, buy the game.

However if you are hellbent on hating all games under the moniker “Ameritrash” maybe you should skip this one. It involves luck, especially if you are playing on a carpet, and is a dexterity game. However, I cannot stress this enough, it is a lot of fun. It provides everyone with an experience and it may take you back to the days where you thought the best gift ever was that tub of armymen and those lost childhood days where the most complex decision you had to make in your daily life was move or shoot.

-----

Since originally writing this review I have purchased all of the expansions, two base sets, and two dragons from the original series. Overall my opinions have not changed. Even though some of the new weapons are mostly useless, and one is vastly overpowered, the game still provides a similar level of fun and excitement. Even if you only play by shooting the caroms at each other until you run out, I still think it is a great game and worth atleast a play from most anyone.

Thread: Re: Game on clearance at Target for $17.48

AnakinOU — 2008-07-20T18:49:11+00:00

Kimo_LeFey wrote:
$12.48 in Chico CA.

I picked one up.

Same in OKC.

Thread: Re: Game on clearance at Target for $17.48

Kimo_LeFey — 2008-07-20T18:41:42+00:00

$12.48 in Chico CA.

I picked one up.

Thread: Re: Game on clearance at Target for $17.48

alfredhw — 2008-07-14T05:28:15+00:00

I just noticed it today...scored a copy, along with Cinq-O and My Word!, which were also on clearance.

Thread: Game on clearance at Target for $17.48

johnbrah — 2008-07-09T20:40:30+00:00

Noticed the base set was on clearance today for $17.48 at a Target store in Waukesha, WI. I didn't see any of the expansions available.

Thread: Introducing the game to some potential new players

claymore_57 — 2008-07-09T18:11:11+00:00

Recently my church had another of their quarterly Family Games Nights. Mostly they play “family” games like Operation, Life, Chutes and Ladders (no Eels and Escalators?), Chickenfoot, and so forth. I decided to shake things up a bit and brought my set of Battleground, which now has all the expansions.

Yeah, I know it seems incongruous to take a “wargame” to a church, but our pastor and Education Minister are relatively open to new things. Besides, if Battleground had been vetoed, I had some back-ups: Castle Keep, Landlocked, and Loot.

My son (age 7) and I had played it at home a bit, but I was anxious to see if anyone else liked it. The event was held in the gym, so I picked an area not far from a wall, got out my 1-foot rule and measured the ‘battlefield’, and began setting things up. We have the full set: Basic set, both Weapon Expansions, and the Tower Expansion.

Well, as soon as I got the first tower up and set a cannon next to it, all the “bigger” boys (8-12 years) came over to look, so I divided the group into teams of three on a side, and assigned each kid to one or two weapons depending on age. I explained how the different bits worked, and let them go to town on building walls and placing their weapons.

The oldest boy on the Knights side (I had two of the smaller kids with me on the Orcs) came up with a method of stacking the bricks -- and with all the expansions you have a lot of them -- so that their wall wasn’t easy to knock down. They had made a double-thick wall, interlocking the two rows, and leaned more bricks against the back for extra bracing. That was one sturdy wall.

We didn’t use much of the standard set of rules, and I borrowed some of the ideas from the threads on Alternative Rules for the game: I counted a reload of a weapon as an “action”, no matter how many disks it took. Firing a weapon was an action, as was moving a man. You could move a weapon (and its man) six inches for an action, but you couldn’t fire the same turn you moved. If you knocked down the enemy’s Hero, they lost one total action for their side; and if you released your guy from prison, you got an extra action. Knocking down three of the enemy’s flags allowed you to resurrect one of your men, and the flags were reset as soon as the third one went down. This way I made sure that there were enough actions on each side so that every boy got to either move or load and fire his weapon each turn.

Once everyone seemed to grasp the essentials, we started. I’m glad I took the advice of some other player/owners of this game and doubled up on the elastics, otherwise some of the weapons wouldn’t even have reached over to the other side. After adding the extra elastics, all the weapons had no trouble hitting their target.

The knights managed to knock down our wall in fairly short order, but we couldn’t seem to budge theirs. All our disks did was move the wall back a little bit, with none of the bricks coming loose to knock down their own guys. (I swear that oldest boy is going to be a civil engineer when he grows up.) Because their wall was so thick, it couldn’t be really high or wide, so we were able to move our weapons to the sides of the battle area and shoot at an angle behind it, or to lob disks over the top of the wall and hope for ricochets.

After a few rounds, a couple of the younger boys lost interest and went off to play other games, but my son and the older boys stuck with it. I discovered the downside to being able to resurrect men so easily: there are always too many to knock down and it’s almost impossible to get them all so you can shoot down the Hero.

I also discovered that crawling around a gym floor on 50-year-old knees makes for an uncomfortable evening. Next time I’ll scrounge a pair of carpet-layer’s kneepads.

When the pizzas arrived, we had a dinner break. Afterwards, most everyone wanted to play something where they could sit at a table (and so did I!), so they scattered and I got everything packed up. We had probably spent ¾ of an hour on the game, total, and were only about half done. If I hadn't had to keep reminding the younger boys of certain rules, we might have moved faster.

All-in-all it was a good session. Several of the dads came over while we were playing and thought the game looked like fun, and a couple of the kids began asking to get one for home. I told them that Toys R Us was running a sale on the game and expansions, and that they could order everything on-line, even the expansions our store didn’t stock.

So, now that I’ve introduced a miniatures game, I might try them on something stronger: perhaps Carcassonne, Settlers of Catan, and maybe even Agricola (once my copy arrives).

Thread: Re: Before Attacktix was C&C. It's back & better than ever!

Great_Mazinga — 2008-07-02T16:12:04+00:00

Ignore the fanboy...get your kid what he enjoys.

Thread: Re: Any difference between Battleground and Weapons & Warriors?

Great_Mazinga — 2008-07-02T15:31:36+00:00

Battlemasters is a table top wargame with combat resolved by dice, tactics, etc, not launching marbles and disks to physically smash opponents pieces as per the other two you mentioned.

Thread: Re: Battleground: Crossbows & Catapults War Chest Starter Set

Common_Hero — 2008-07-01T20:40:14+00:00

amishburrito wrote:
This game, as well as all of the expansions, I found at TRU on clearance (approximately 40-45% off on each)

I just got back from TRU, picked up all 5 sets for 35 dollars. Not a bad deal at all.

Thread: Re: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

gregor1863 — 2008-06-21T14:29:01+00:00

Toys R Us here in Columbus, OH has sets all marked 50% off...picked up the starter set and all 4 expansions for just over $50.

Thread: Crosslore & Battlepults!

Beholm — 2008-06-12T01:47:17+00:00

Just had a thought while looking over my C&C game as it sits under my Battlelore and Memoir '44 games.... Make a big board to play with the C&C pieces, but play with a variation on the Battlelore rules (cards move sections) and use a variety of the magic system. When the siege weapons fire (only if they have a "person" in the hex with them), they actually fire per C&C rules. If they knock a piece out of it's hex it is a route. If it knocks it over it is a kill. Normal rules apply for battle between "people". To have MORE fun, use "monsters" from D&D mini's or a comparable figure, but the monster(s) are neutral and can be used by EITHER side if they have enough lore to pay.

If anyone else has ideas (or links to ideas) along this thinking, please post back here. I would LOVE to play this!

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Thread: Re: Any difference between Battleground and Weapons & Warriors?

Beholm — 2008-06-12T01:46:23+00:00

First off, disk's vs marbles ... disks win! No chasing rolling balls all over the house!
second, stacking blocks make game MUCH more fun. actual destructable terrain!
Third, Disk's double as "hit points" for figures while making them bigger targets.
Fourth, C&C pieces are just made sturdier than W&W pieces! Other than that, the games are simular.

Thread: Re: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

Stu Skywalker — 2008-06-06T03:37:11+00:00

Walmart (here in Calgary) has the starter sets for $19.94.

I didn't see any expansion items, but a good deal for the starter set.

Thread: Re: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

claymore_57 — 2008-06-05T15:06:18+00:00

Just wanted to give the rest of you a heads-up that the “Battleground” Starter Set, Tower Expansion, and extra weapons sets are all still available (as of 05-JUN-08) from Toys R Us on-line, and all of them are at the discount price (about 45% off).

I checked the TRU website on a whim and was surprised to find they still had all of it in stock, and not in the “Clearance” section. I immediately ordered all the sets I was missing.

If you want any extra weapons or need spare parts, or just want to try the game cheap, now is the time to pick them up -- while they are still available new -- and the cost is comparable to what you’d pay on eBay for used games (if you could find the ones you want). At these prices, if your family plays your set a lot, it’s probably worth buying a whole set now as a ‘backup’ version once the first one has too many broken bits.

Hope this helps!

Thread: Re: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

claymore_57 — 2008-05-31T22:20:41+00:00

Thanks for the heads-up!

I read your message and ran down to my local TRU. They only had 6 copies (now 5!) of the War Chest set, and only two of the expansions: Gatling Gun/Twin Crossbow and Battering Ram/Triple Catapult. The War Chest was only $19.98 and the two expansions were $5.98 each, so I bought one of everything. After tax I paid only $34.81 for the three items, and the original price on just the War Chest was $34.99.

Fairplay Games doesn't have it, and Amazon wants $36.95 (+ $9.36 S&H) for the War Chest and $9.49 (+ $5.45 S&H) for each expansion.

On the whole, I feel like I made out like a bandit!

Thread: Any difference between Battleground and Weapons & Warriors?

claymore_57 — 2008-05-31T20:09:21+00:00

I have a couple of sets of Weapons & Warriors (and two of Battlemasters), and was curious whether Battleground is significantly different from either of those games? If it is, then I'll pick up a copy; but if not, then I'll stick with what I've got.

Thread: Re: Warriors on tower?

caradoc — 2008-05-31T09:21:22+00:00

I would play that the Castle/Catapult becomes useless when the portcullis is hit hard enough to 'pop' up (and shows the flames), when this occurs any warriors on the battlements perish in the flames.

Beware the Ballista on a smooth surface - especially when they are loaded with several elastic bands - as mine are!

Cheers,

Giles.

Thread: Re: Warriors on tower?

kembial — 2008-05-31T09:14:00+00:00

Part of our setup is committing one warrior to the castle, then placing the "ground" troops. On the odd chance that guy falls but the gate is not opened, someone must re-man it. An activated gate kills the warrior by fire, regardless if he falls off his feet.

Castles and cage-towers (from expansion) are removed once "broken". This allows the 5 year old opponent more room to shoot, without constantly knocking his own smaller components over (which ruins my trial-by-error aiming attempts, when those bits are replaced 1/2" from where they started...)

On further thought... any warriors on the balcony aren't arming any weapons on the field and are useless (if relatively safe) in a broken castle.

Thread: Re: Age range

kembial — 2008-05-31T08:37:52+00:00

Easy, introduce it step-by-step. Start with a castle and a weapon for you and the kid (plus any components you're comfortable they can handle). Play that simplified game through: a x-bow vs. the castle = just pop the gate.

Step up the # of targets until you've got the whole set of bricks/warriors/heroes in. Work on breaking bricks and killing warriors. Explain the hero when he inevitably gets mowed down.

Add in flags (ignore the 3-flag rule; if you're clumping your flags, shame on you - if you're letting the kid do it, and then taking advantage of that... then shame on you!). Then add power disks.

Introduce "manning" your weapons. Weapon-use-per-round, and lastly put rules on the movement.

Stop at any level that confuses the child and simply play that version until they're ready for more.

Thread: Re: Quick play with son after getting home ...

kembial — 2008-05-31T08:09:50+00:00

I always find, with my cannon starting at the front line, popping the gate is simple. We play on the carpet, as well. A cannon shot from 3 1/2 feet is more than adequate for me. Perhaps your carpet is too thick to allow the gate to "release" when hit? Otherwise, do some band adjustments.

On the carpet, I've just not even introduced the x-bows to my 5-year-old opponent. I'd rather create a smooth play-field than rig up a ~~hassle~~ work-around.

The biggest issue, is the weapon expansions... The knights are going to end up with less usable armory on a carpet field than the orcs, if I recall correctly. Again, I'll wait until I have a smooth field before I'll pick these up.

Thread: Re: Is there any point to having more than one starter set?

kembial — 2008-05-31T07:42:03+00:00

The starter set + tower attack has made for a very crowded player's area (the 3'x1' described in the rules). Moving weaponry around would be quite difficult with all the bricks in place, if my main opponent -the 5 year old- could understand the 2" rule.

If you double up the starters, I'd suggest making the player territory deeper (3'x2') rather than wider (6'x1'). If you're going to have more castles, you might as well put more targets in their overpowered range.

Thread: Re: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

kembial — 2008-05-31T07:26:59+00:00

These are the clearance prices (your $5 off was likely from the now-expired 20% off clearance sale). Clearance prices usually only go down with time, at TRU, but have randomly been known to revert to retail price if it's still sitting around near X-mas.

Grab it now if you'd like it. It could run out with no restocks from the warehouse.

Thread: Re: The Rulebook is Awful...Help!

matt_wendling — 2008-05-27T16:23:39+00:00

Has anyone tried to adapt C&C to D&D minis? Any "house rules" that cover this adaptation? How many HP damage does a catapult do? How many HP does a hero vs regular knight have?

Thread: Re: Is there any point to having more than one starter set?

fastbilly1 — 2008-05-07T22:58:00+00:00

Four player games tend to last too long, however the extra bricks and caroms may be worth it (depending on the price ofcourse). I bought a second one with the intention of buying a third and painting two of them to have six player battles. But after playing two hour long four player battles I have given up on that idea.

Thread: Re: Is there any point to having more than one starter set?

Capitaine Grappin — 2008-05-07T15:17:32+00:00

Maybe to play with 4 players, otherwise I have personnally enough of one set.

Thread: Re: Is there any point to having more than one starter set?

DocStryder — 2008-05-07T13:58:40+00:00

There are no specific rules for an uber game that I know of but I would believe more is always better for this game. After I bought it (and all the expansions on sale) I went out and purchased a piece of corrugated plactic sheeting from Home Depot (8' x 4' which I trimmed down to 5' 4'). This has allowed me to play some large battles and I would think you could do similarily with another starter set.

Thread: Is there any point to having more than one starter set?

Verkisto — 2008-05-07T13:38:34+00:00

I picked up a copy of this on clearance last night, and now I'm wondering if I should go back and get the other one I saw there, too. Can you build up uber-forts for mega-battles, or is that just silly? Is this a case where more is better, or too much of a good thing?

Your input is appreciated.

Image

Capitaine Grappin — 2008-05-06T11:20:38+00:00

Orc projectile

Image

Capitaine Grappin — 2008-05-06T11:19:53+00:00

Human projectile

Image

Capitaine Grappin — 2008-05-05T11:56:46+00:00

Lifting a canon is no trouble for the average knight

Image

Capitaine Grappin — 2008-05-05T11:55:30+00:00

Orcs

Image

Capitaine Grappin — 2008-05-05T11:46:55+00:00

Human flag

Thread: Re: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

Snooze_uk — 2008-04-28T12:54:12+00:00

LOL - can't believe they're having to dump stock of this.

They distributed it to the wrong country! The only person selling it over here (in the UK) is shipping them in from the US and selling them for £35 (~$70USD) !!! Yep - that's SEVENTY dollars.

Image

Capitaine Grappin — 2008-04-26T15:34:49+00:00

Human King

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Capitaine Grappin — 2008-04-26T15:34:38+00:00

Orc chief

Image

Capitaine Grappin — 2008-04-26T15:31:39+00:00

Orc flag

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Capitaine Grappin — 2008-04-26T15:26:30+00:00

Orc on the castle

Thread: Re: Little wars

fastbilly1 — 2008-04-20T19:26:02+00:00

There are a handful of problems converting Little Wars over, but with alittle tinkering you can make it happen:
1. Missing calvary.
2. Crossbow is overpowered.
3. Terrain

So it is not impossible, I actually have a rule conversion I have been working on every once and a while during lunch since I got my first set back in January. But the amount of work that you need to do to make it work is decent.

The Calvary problem is fixed with other figurines or pawns - I use pieces from several chess sets to represent the extra infantry and what not (dollar store finds). But if you insist on having proper calvary, best of luck. The only ones I found that I liked were metal and had a hefty pricetag.

With the Crossbow you can easily take out anything in the battle. This is why you must use the Cannon or Catapult for balance. Unless ofcourse you are playing on carpet then it doesnt matter.

Terrain is fixed by proxy or railroad crafts. In my experiences with Little Wars, terrain makes tactics. Both Carbine and Rubberband cannons are not perfectly accurate, so even simple trees can drastically change the game. Granted you must be careful with railroad crafts, those styrofoam hills will be pitted or broken very quickly. Proxying in books for hills, disposable cups for trees, etc, is the easy fix and while not pretty, it works. Some of my favorite games of Little Wars have involved hiding artillery behind red solo cups.

Despite what it may sound like I just said, it is a good idea, it just involves alittle work. The actual rulesets are surprisingly similar. One involves more weapons, while the other has melee and more unit types.

Thread: Re: Just for kids?

mean_liar — 2008-04-16T20:08:30+00:00

My wife and I love playing this. I would love it more but I lose often.

We started talking about it with some of our friends (Puerto Rico- and Caylus-lovers, all) and the guys got all excited and bought it the next day. The other women, well... they'll come around once they see it in action. PEWPEWPEW

Thread: Re: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

fastbilly1 — 2008-04-15T22:48:31+00:00

I am glad it could be of help to others.

Thread: Re: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

pusherman42 — 2008-04-15T17:04:15+00:00

I can confirm the clearance. After reading this I went by the locak Toys R Us and found the Base Game, the Trebuchet expansion, and the Tower expansion. They didn't have the other 2 weapon expansions. Total price of all three things I bought, after tax, was 31.53. Stopped by Target on the way home to see if they had the other 2 expansions. They didn't, but I did notice that they had the base game. It's price? Before tax? $35.00

Good tip, and thanks for it!

Thread: Re: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

kenntak — 2008-04-15T12:56:34+00:00

Sounds cool, thanks!

Thread: Re: Target Practice Mode

JVKhoury — 2008-04-15T05:09:59+00:00

roman2440 wrote:
We tried another variant yesterday that also seemed to play well - target practice.

We each setup just the main castle, all of the bricks, and the flags (no warriors, no jail). Each player selected 3 weapons to bring to the field. Players fired 2 shots at a time until all the flags were down and the castle was "popped".

It went over well, was much quicker than the basic game and a whole lot of fun.

That's exactly how I play with my 4-year old daughter. [Except for the 2 shots at a time. We just both shoot until we're out of our respective discs, reclaim them and clear away fallen men/bricks, repeat.] She loves it.

Thread: Re: Rubber bands

JVKhoury — 2008-04-15T05:04:50+00:00

titanteer wrote:
By "doubling-up" do you mean using two bands, or doubling over a single band to make it tighter? I have done the latter on some weapons and it has a significant effect. It seems adding another band would not do as much as far as increasing the firepower, though I haven't tried it. Has anyone tried both, and if so, which is a better solution?

One other quick question. Does anyone else find the triple catapult to have a short range? I doubled the band over on it and it helped, but everything still bounces right in front of the enemy's lines and then up and over the castle. To make it effective it needs to be moved forward about 6 inches.

Yeah? More firepower is offset by shorter range.

Problem solved.

Thread: Re: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

Nevin — 2008-04-15T04:45:14+00:00

Thanks for the hot tip!

Thread: On sale at US Toysrus stores right now

fastbilly1 — 2008-04-15T03:56:37+00:00

I went in to a Toysrus today and noticed that the starter set was priced at $20 while the weapon expansions were priced at $5.49, tower at $10.49. When I got to the register the starter set rang up at $15. The cashier stated it was the price for the time being and that it is nationwide, I do not know about the extra $5 off at the register so your experience may differ on that part. But the game is $15 less than most other retail outlets I have been in recently.

I picked up another starter and all of the weapon expansions. Now I will have to wait until after some more playtime to post my review. I just thought some of my fellow board game enthusiast may want to know, especially those of you on the fence about buying the game.

Thread: Re: Before Attacktix was C&C. It's back & better than ever!

Oprea1010 — 2008-04-01T00:29:59+00:00

Well, Heroscape is an epic strategy game with tons of expansion sets and
new landscape peices. Battlegrounds is just some game where you point your weapon at something, pull back, let go and hope it hits. Very little strateg, lots of luck, and ver childish. I am an avid collecter of Heroscape. to. Your eleven year old son is very smart, C and C is for young kids [6 and up], while Heroscape truly needs a smart mind. HEROSCAPE RULES!

Thread: Re: Battleground: Crossbows & Catapults War Chest Starter Set

amishburrito — 2008-03-29T20:12:44+00:00

This game, as well as all of the expansions, I found at TRU on clearance (approximately 40-45% off on each)

Thread: Little wars

mrtof — 2008-03-17T02:05:07+00:00

Played with the Little Wars rules, this game could be awesome.

Thread: Re: Multiverse war!

titanteer — 2008-02-05T15:43:04+00:00

This is an awesome idea! I am now dying to try this myself. I have all the expansions and two full sets of the W&W Castle Combat in addition to all of its expansions. Plus my brother-in-law (age 12) has tons of SW Attactix we could throw in there. We could have the ultimate mega-battle with every projectile-firing toy we can get out hands on. If I ever pull this off, I will try to post some photos.

The W&W weapons are deadly accurate, but I agree with you the C&C disks pack more of a punch. I'm interested to see how they mix, though.

Thread: Re: Rubber bands

titanteer — 2008-02-05T15:34:04+00:00

By "doubling-up" do you mean using two bands, or doubling over a single band to make it tighter? I have done the latter on some weapons and it has a significant effect. It seems adding another band would not do as much as far as increasing the firepower, though I haven't tried it. Has anyone tried both, and if so, which is a better solution?

One other quick question. Does anyone else find the triple catapult to have a short range? I doubled the band over on it and it helped, but everything still bounces right in front of the enemy's lines and then up and over the castle. To make it effective it needs to be moved forward about 6 inches.