Game: Khet 3D: Tower of Kadesh

Thread: Re: Worth buying with class 1 (EU-version) lasers?

masdero — 2008-08-28T08:22:18+00:00

Did anybody replace the laser with more powerful ones, even of fidderent color???

Can this geek publish a tutorial???

Thread: Re: Worth buying with class 1 (EU-version) lasers?

zurround — 2008-08-28T06:44:37+00:00

yes but you have to look carefully its pretty weak. i wish the game had the more powerful GREEN laser (I have seen green laser pointers advertised they are much brighter than red ones)

Thread: Re: Worth buying with class 1 (EU-version) lasers?

Yokiboy — 2008-08-27T13:08:44+00:00

Good question, I'd like to know the answer as well.

Thread: Worth buying with class 1 (EU-version) lasers?

masdero — 2008-08-26T20:58:11+00:00

Given the fact that in EU the class 2 lasers in the khetboard are replaced with class 1 lasers, is the beam effect noticeable after the laser beam goes up and possibly down the tower?

Thread: Re: General review of Tower of Kadesh.

zurround — 2008-06-30T21:55:44+00:00

I have a few comments:

1. There needs to be a rule against ROTATING the board if the board has no pieces on it at all, to do so is a de facto passing of one's turn which is NOT supposed to be legal.

2. I need to know whether or not the tower can cover "personal" spaces of the player, meaning the firing lines and the four colored corner spaces. seems a little wrong that you could use the tower to block someone's firing line.

3. There should be a rule similar to "ko" in go. My idea is this: If a player moves or rotates the tower without destroying at least one piece on that turn than his opponent may not immediately reverse the previous turn's tower movement unless in doing so they can destroy at least one piece. Such a rule would prevent one player from just continually reversing the other

4. The tower will effectively be a MUCH better game once the next expansion the SPHINX comes out. the added firepower of the SPHINX will counterbalance the extra "safety" provided by the tower.

5. Anyone want to try to calculate the total number of positions possible when playing with the tower? standard chess has approximately ten to the fiftieth power possible positions. Khet 3d has 112 spaces compared to the 64 of chess and unlike chess certain pieces can rotate or have 2 occupying a space at once. But the biggest difference is that an entire BOARD can change position!! I read that there are an estimated ten to the eighty first power ATOMS in the ENTIRE universe! if chess has ten to the fiftieth power positions possible it makes me wonder if maybe Khet 3d could have MORE than ten to the eighty first power positions possible? If so it would be a larger number than the number of atoms in the entire universe!!

Thread: Re: Tower of Kadesh Released!

zurround — 2008-06-28T02:04:45+00:00

something I am wondering is this: Can a player place the tower on a "colored" space? that is the firing lines and the four spaces not on the firing lines that are restricted to one of the 2 players? to me it seems that the tower should only be allowed on the neutral black spaces. Blocking a player's firing line with the tower seems very unfair to me. What exactly is the rule on that?

Thread: Re: A big concern I have...

zurround — 2008-06-22T07:09:06+00:00

that sucks someone should not be allowed to use the tower to block an opponents firing line.

Thread: Re: A big concern I have...

sdonohue — 2008-06-16T11:23:44+00:00

There are no restrictions on moving the tower beyond not being able to move onto another piece, so I think the answer is yes.

Thread: Re: A big concern I have...

zurround — 2008-06-16T09:42:53+00:00

Can the tower go onto a "colored" space? which is either the firing lines or the four non firing line colored spaces? I have not been able to get the game yet but it seems to me that the tower should not be able to go onto the "colored" spaces.

Thread: General review of Tower of Kadesh.

dotttyditty — 2008-06-07T18:02:12+00:00

Ever wondered what 3D Chess would be like in the Star Trek Series?
Did you think it would be harder to play than 2D chess? Well I don't
know the answer but what I can tell you is that the new Tower Of
Kadesh is brilliant to play and can extend your game. It is fast to
set up your tower and the rules make it easy to understand, so you can
start playing within five minutes or ten at the most. You have three
set ups that you can use, one of which is new (Hetepheres 3D), plus
the Classic and Imhotep 3D versions. The tower goes into the middle
of the board before the game starts and then you take your move as in
a normal Khet game. You can either move your piece (as in a normal
game) or move it onto or off the tower. You can move the tower one
place in any direction that is not occupied by a piece or turn it a
quarter (like the Djed piece) before firing your laser to end your
go. On the top tier, you can not move your Pharaoh into the corner
but otherwise you can move it anywhere on the top level or second
level. Each set up has some good tactics that can improve your game
but if you make a mistake, it can be over a lot quicker. Moving the
tower makes it a better game to play as you could find yourself
getting out of trouble where you would lose in the 2D set up. Moving
pieces on to the tower and then off to make a good killing is a bonus
but you have to watch where the laser will go or you can find yourself
in trouble. It is also good to see the top board moving all over the
bottom board as pieces are picked up and put down on different parts
of the playing field. It is also worth mentioning that you will have
to keep looking around the bottom board, or turning it to see behind
the column, opposite of where you are playing, or you might forget
where the pharaoh or other pieces are. Once you get used to the 3D
board, it is really fun and is harder to work out a strategy. All in
all it is great fun and well worth buying.

Khet Players UK

Thread: Re: Great expansion to an already fun game!

zurround — 2008-06-02T10:56:35+00:00

Actually I have been thinking and a good rule would be you can only reverse a tower move if: The player who had just moved the tower on that turn destroyed at least one piece with their laser shot. Or if not then only if you are going on your turn to destroy at least one piece. that prevents repeat of board position.

Thread: Re: Great expansion to an already fun game!

zurround — 2008-05-29T22:08:36+00:00

True without the tower even if I reverse MY previous move we will likely not have the exact same position because it does not mean my opponent is also doing so. but the tower is neutral either player can move it. A "ko like" rule would be very fair, it would apply only to the VERY NEXT MOVE, and players could still move or rotate the tower on the next turn as long as they did so in a non reversing way. Such a rule would prevent problems like if a player is moving the tower towards a killing point and opponent just keeps moving it back to avoid the attack. I plan to suggest this as a "house rule" for my friends. I suspect that the rule will be added someday as this game becomes a part of our culture especially for tournament play.

Thread: Re: Great expansion to an already fun game!

sdonohue — 2008-05-29T12:56:29+00:00

I think until the tower there was no way for an opponent to undo a move and get back to the same position on the next turn.

That rule doesn't exist.

Thread: Re: Great expansion to an already fun game!

Yokiboy — 2008-05-29T12:47:52+00:00

zurround wrote:
Oh good! In GO there is a "ko" rule that makes it illegal to repeat last turns game position. There needs to be such a rule in this too. If a player moves or rotates the tower his opponent should not (on the very next turn) be allowed to reverse the movement, on their NEXT turn its ok just not the very next turn as it would instantly negate the previous turn. Other games like KUBA have rules inspired by "ko" too.
Good call, this should be a rule in Khet in general. Actually so much so that I will check to see if it's not in there already...

Thread: Re: Great expansion to an already fun game!

zurround — 2008-05-29T10:50:49+00:00

Oh good! In GO there is a "ko" rule that makes it illegal to repeat last turns game position. There needs to be such a rule in this too. If a player moves or rotates the tower his opponent should not (on the very next turn) be allowed to reverse the movement, on their NEXT turn its ok just not the very next turn as it would instantly negate the previous turn. Other games like KUBA have rules inspired by "ko" too.

Thread: Re: Great expansion to an already fun game!

sdonohue — 2008-05-27T08:15:18+00:00

It does. As mentioned in the review, the published rules include that rule even though the rules shown here do not include that. In the pdf, the rules are numbered 1-4, but the published rules go 1-5 and 5 says you can't put the Pharoah into a corner.

I've sent Luke Hooper a note and asked him to consider uploading the revised rules.

Thread: Re: Great expansion to an already fun game!

zurround — 2008-05-27T06:57:13+00:00

As far as missing completely is concerned I have discovered that the beamsplitters cause that to happen even more than regular mirrors.

Also, A concern I have with the tower is that a player can gain full invulnerability by putting his pharaoh in the corner of the tower and using 2 djeds properly angled to give him a perfect shield. The tower should have taken that into consideration and made it illegal to put a pharaoh in the corner.

Image

sdonohue — 2008-05-26T22:06:49+00:00

This is the board set up for the 'Classic' version in 3D.

Image

sdonohue — 2008-05-26T22:00:16+00:00

The assembled board, with no pieces in play.

Image

sdonohue — 2008-05-26T21:58:47+00:00

Bottom of the cap, note the mirrors to bounce light back onto the surface after coming up the column.

Image

sdonohue — 2008-05-26T21:50:45+00:00

A look at the playing surface of the board.

Thread: Re: Great expansion to an already fun game!

sdonohue — 2008-05-24T23:32:04+00:00

The good news is that you don't need to buy the expansion to have a good time with Khet. Did you pick up the Eye of Horus Beamsplitter expansion? I think that one would probably be more to your liking as it is much less intrusive and the splitter really adds to the game play with little downside.

The tower is fun, but as they say on The Spiele, it's mostly about goober - it is not as practical as it could be, but I don't think a game made with lasers is really all about practical

Thread: Re: Great expansion to an already fun game!

twixter — 2008-05-24T22:07:53+00:00

I liked the review, and found it informative. But I can tell from the photo, never having played it, that I despise this expansion. I pretty much despise all expansions, but especially expansions for perfectly good abstracts. I'll be the first to admit that this is due to my curmudgeonly nature and limited budget. I'm glad to hear others enjoy this game. So I hope you don't mind if I rain on your parade a little. I'd rather post here than take geek gold for a "review" just based on a photo.

sdonohue wrote:
...
The tower comes in three pieces. A large 8 x 8 playing surface, a column that holds it up, and a cap which sits on top. The column and cap both have mirrors to allow the laser to reach and interact with and capture pieces on top.
What a beast. How am I supposed to see the whole position? Move my head around a lot is how. That column is 2x2 with a separate mirror for each square. I would imagine you need lots of indirect lighting to mitigate any shadow.

... This is a minor concern though. Everything is constructed with the precise engineering of Khet and so the pieces come together nicely and fit perfectly.
I have a Khet set. "The precise engineering of Khet" doesn't exactly fill me with confidence. More than about 8 or 9 reflections and the beam completely misses. Yes I know that enough precision, quality mirrors, and laser power to keep the beam on track and useful for twice as many reflections would have cost maybe an order of magnitude more. That doesn't make it any less irritating.

Instead of his move a player may:
1) move the tower 1 space in any direction as long as the landing spaces are clear (ie, he can’t land on anything)
2) Rotate the tower 1 /4 turn in either direction
This reminds me of Star Trek 3D Chess, which I loathe. I pretty much just don't like anything do I?

Actually the increased options for play do sound somewhat interesting, and I appreciate your observations. But the way I see it, there is plenty of undiscovered territory in the basic game. Chess masters are still discovering new aspects of chess after hundreds of years, and I don't just mean openings. Expansions may provide a cash cow for the publisher, but in the long run they make the original game even more obscure than it already was.

Any game is only as deep as you and your opponents make it. Deep is good.

Thread: Re: Great expansion to an already fun game!

Yokiboy — 2008-05-24T11:34:37+00:00

Nice review Steve.

Thread: Great expansion to an already fun game!

sdonohue — 2008-05-24T02:35:03+00:00

The Khet 3D: Tower of Kadesh expansion is an interesting addition to an already fun game. The tower fits on top of your normal board creating a feeling much like 3d chess. The tower has hieroglyphics on the outside so the edge looks more like Khet, but it is definitely compatible with Deflexion too.

Components
The tower comes in three pieces. A large 8 x 8 playing surface, a column that holds it up, and a cap which sits on top. The column and cap both have mirrors to allow the laser to reach and interact with and capture pieces on top.

It is of good construction. It might have been nice if the tower could have been less opaque, but I imagine safety concerns with the lasers might have made that impossible. As it is, it is sometimes hard to see what’s going on the normal board on the other side of the tower. This is a minor concern though. Everything is constructed with the precise engineering of Khet and so the pieces come together nicely and fit perfectly.

Setting/Theme
Khet remains mostly an abstract game and I think the tower reinforces that. It does have Egyptian-themed decorations, but beyond that it is much more cool than it is thematic.

Rules
The rules are pretty simple. The tower is placed on the board in a starting location. There are three setups in the rules all of which had it staring in the center. The setups also show where pieces should be placed to start, much like the original game.
The rules are pretty simple and add to a players options for moment each turn.

Instead of his move a player may:
1) move the tower 1 space in any direction as long as the landing spaces are clear (ie, he can’t land on anything)
2) Rotate the tower 1 /4 turn in either direction
3) Move a piece from the tower to the square below, or move a piece on the normal board directly to the tower square above. The Djed and Eye of Horus may swap places with another piece normally during this move.

The only other rule is that players may not move pharaohs into any corner of the tower (this was not in the pdf of the rules posted in January, but is in the printed version).

Observations
The tower adds quite a few different strategic options. It does tend to make the game a little longer since players often have more space to hide and more options for movement. I’ve played three games so far and in every case the tower was used strategically in a different way.
One easy way to use it is to get your pharaoh up there. Since the light can only enter from 1 of of 4 spaces and only be redirected from two, it can take a while for your opponent to get enough pieces up there to threaten you. You can then jump down and make him start over.

Another strategy used by my opponent was to use the tower as a blocker. He got it closer to his pharaoh and used some of his other pieces to lock it in place. Since the tower must have an open space to move to, this is fairly effective.

The third choice was to use the tower to trap the pharaoh. I tried this in our third game and it worked reasonably well. Starting from the Hetepheres layout, I moved the tower towards his side of the board and followed up with one of my pieces each time. It effectively split the board and trapped his pharaoh in a much smaller section making capture inevitable. I think a more skilled player could have used this against me, but it worked in this case.

Recommendation
I liked it. I enjoyed all three games with the expansion and it played an important role all three times. It did make the game slightly longer, but I felt like the additional strategy made it worth it. Even with more choices, we played three games in just over an hour. My opponent had only played perhaps a half-dozen times before, so he was a little prone to A-P. I think experienced players would find the tower a lot of fun and a great addition to an already interesting game.

Thread: Re: A big concern I have...

sdonohue — 2008-05-24T00:46:40+00:00

zurround wrote:
According to my calculations a player could gain absolute invulnerability by placing his pharaoh in the corner of the tower and angling 2 djeds as shields to protect himself and make a tie, a big problem, I hope there are special rules to prevent this. This problem on the main board is why there are 2 colored spaces next to each players firing line.

Just managed to play three games with the tower tonight. I loved it. The good news is there is a rule 5 in the published rulebook which says no player move move a pharoah into a corner of the tower.

(And yes, the rules here are not the final ones - they don't show rule 5. I didn't notice any other changes).

Thread: Re: Tower of Kadesh Released!

sdonohue — 2008-05-22T12:15:36+00:00

I got my tower yesterday but haven't had a chance to play it yet. I'm hoping to give it a test-drive tonight.

Thread: Re: Tower of Kadesh Released!

zurround — 2008-05-22T10:11:36+00:00

I am still worried that the tower will give to much safety to the pharaoh, seems like establishing a "checkmate" would be almost impossible and the only way to win will be to rely on your opponent to make an absentminded mistake. Maybe I am wrong and I am still going to get and try the game.

Thread: Re: Tower of Kadesh Released!

roadrunner4141 — 2008-05-16T00:29:51+00:00

Yes, both the Khet and Deflexion board are identical sizes so the tower works with both versions.

Thread: Re: Tower of Kadesh Released!

sdonohue — 2008-05-16T00:17:14+00:00

This is great news! I just placed my order and can't wait.

Is this also compatible with Deflexion?

Thread: Tower of Kadesh Released!

roadrunner4141 — 2008-05-16T00:03:25+00:00

The Tower of Kadesh is finally here and shipping!!! For more info check out:

http://www.khet.com/store/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=...

Thread: Re: A big concern I have...

masdero — 2008-05-04T10:07:19+00:00

zurround wrote:
This problem on the main board is why there are 2 colored spaces next to each players firing line.

Yes but the tower itself can rotate...

Thread: Re: A big concern I have...

masdero — 2008-05-04T09:59:17+00:00

Suppose your only pieces left are the Faraoh with the 2 Djeds.

would you really keep on passing your turn rotating the Djed as your only option, instead of ackwoledging you have lost?

Thread: Re: Pictures of Tower of Kadesh

kduke — 2008-05-03T05:29:17+00:00

I pass.

Thread: Re: A big concern I have...

dotttyditty — 2008-04-28T16:42:23+00:00

I think all the set ups would have the Pharaoh on the bottom but can be moved up to the next level during play. The Djeds depend on the set up and I think in the rules, they are on the second platform. Being aware of the move though, you could change the tower around to make it hard to play with the item mentioned above.

Yours in Khet

Bryan

www.khetplayers.org.uk

Thread: Re: A big concern I have...

Yokiboy — 2008-04-26T19:39:11+00:00

Would the Pharaoh and the Djeds have to start on the tower for this to happen, or can they move from the main board up onto the tower?

Thread: A big concern I have...

zurround — 2008-04-26T02:30:38+00:00

According to my calculations a player could gain absolute invulnerability by placing his pharaoh in the corner of the tower and angling 2 djeds as shields to protect himself and make a tie, a big problem, I hope there are special rules to prevent this. This problem on the main board is why there are 2 colored spaces next to each players firing line.

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

zurround — 2008-04-19T03:53:39+00:00

I have been doing research and I think it won't be shipping till JUNE. Man that sucks donkey balls.

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

P_J_Keller — 2008-04-18T00:06:12+00:00

We're past the midpoint in April, any news on the Tower's release?

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

zurround — 2008-04-10T07:23:39+00:00

I am still worried about the tower giving the pharaoh too much safety and it taking too long to kill him or a tie resulting.

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

rogue461 — 2008-03-26T18:57:44+00:00

I just got feedback from Innovention that it is enroute and is expected to begin shipping in the US sometime in April.

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

ASFalcon13 — 2008-03-22T17:54:36+00:00

So, March 20 has come and gone. Any word on the Tower release?

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

masdero — 2008-03-22T00:48:03+00:00

There is a huge banner in the main page of the website.

Anyway write an email to Silvia, the shopowner! info@giochidi.it

I mean just to ask for an information

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

STARTREK — 2008-03-21T16:27:26+00:00

Are you sure ?? They don't propose it af far as I read teh Italian

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

masdero — 2008-03-17T15:27:34+00:00

http://www.giochidi.it/ is the italian dealer for khet, located in Siena, Tuscany.
France is not that far

Thread: Re: Pictures of Tower of Kadesh

zurround — 2008-03-17T01:56:14+00:00

I sure hope the tower does not make the game take forever, seems like it would be fairly easy for an about to be killed pharaoh to just jump to relative safety on the tower (I know the tower still has some danger and the laser can get up there that is why I said RELATIVE safety). Also, I hope they color the corners of the tower similarly to how the regular board is colored to prevent Pharaohs from going in the corners since in a corner a Pharaoh can use 2 djeds to have effective invincibility.

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

STARTREK — 2008-03-04T12:53:43+00:00

Just a question please... Where can we buy Tower of Kadesh ?? Do you know at what price ???

Tanks for your responses !

Thread: Re: Pictures of Tower of Kadesh

zurround — 2008-02-29T06:16:53+00:00

I actually suggested a new piece to the game's creator that I called the "sky blaster". it was a piece that was almost as vulnerable as the pharaoh (opaque on 3 sides) but on the fourth side it had an upward pointing mirror similar to the ones inside the tower. If a laser hit the "sky blaster" it would go straight up and if it hit the base of the tower would DESTROY any piece occupying the space directly above where it had hit even an "indestructable" piece like a pharaoh or djed and if hitting an obilisk stack would destroy both. so although vulnerable and with a laser that can only hit one space on that one space it has absolute power. The other new piece i suggested was a "bomb" a piece that had no mirrors (similar to the obilisk) but if hit would be destroyed and any piece bordering it would be destroyed too, of course a player's own bomb could become his enemy! For the record I looked at those pieces and they look funny because the picture is taken at an angle but they are just beam splitters.

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

toku42 — 2008-02-18T04:02:31+00:00

Thanks for the information! Having a "hoped for" release date slip by just one month is pretty good

Thread: Re: Shipping in February!

Henry Rhombus — 2008-02-18T02:03:55+00:00

The keyword above is "hoped" -- I met Luke Hooper at NY Toy Fair on Feb. 17, and he said the shipping date is now March 20. Soon!

Eric
Editor, http://www.BoardgameNews.com

Image

Randall Silver — 2008-01-04T07:53:47+00:00

The Tower of Kadesh

Thread: Re: Pictures of Tower of Kadesh

Beowulf — 2007-12-25T06:51:33+00:00

Wow...that thing looks cool, but unwieldy. I was expecting some sort of "periscope" piece, that would allow you to jump the beam over other pieces. Each side would need two, to bring the beam back down to the "ground" level on the other side.

Maybe give the periscope have a rotating top, which would require a move to rotate 90° without rotating the base. I digress: obviously that type of piece is not what is being pictured here.

Thread: Re: Pictures of Tower of Kadesh

toku42 — 2007-12-08T13:12:53+00:00

rossum wrote:
toku42 wrote:
It looks like there's some weird piece inside an eye of Horus package at the bottom right of both photos, though it's more visible in the second. Kind of looks like a tall Pharaoh.

Any insights?
Looks like a beamsplitter viewed edge-on to me.

It is. I don't know why it looked so weird to me at the time

Thread: Re: Pictures of Tower of Kadesh

rossum — 2007-12-08T09:46:40+00:00

toku42 wrote:
It looks like there's some weird piece inside an eye of Horus package at the bottom right of both photos, though it's more visible in the second. Kind of looks like a tall Pharaoh.

Any insights?
Looks like a beamsplitter viewed edge-on to me.

Thread: Shipping in February!

toku42 — 2007-11-27T05:08:01+00:00

I just received an email from Luke Hooper at Innovention saying that they hoped to have the Tower of Kadesh ready to ship by February. Hopefully that release date can be met, as the photos of it seem to show a fairly refined product, not a prototype mock-up. Translating that model to mass production may be tricky with all the optics involved, but here's hoping.

Mention was also made of a light-sensitive Pharaoh and "a few other expansions" they're hoping to work on. Sounds like fun to me