Game: Knockabout

Thread: Re: Knockabout Opening Moves

Kaelistus — 2008-02-14T04:57:20+00:00

I've been playing against a significantly weaker opponent lately (AKA she's new to the game), and I've been trying out a different one than these:

6. Move the middle D6 diagonal left (or right) up. The threat here is knocking the same D6 up 2 for a high number near the middle. Later moving the left D8 left sets up a more central attack.

I haven't really tried this move with a more experienced player yet, but I like the flank threat as a nice variety to my usual #1 or #2 openers. I personally don't like #4 - it gives up too much center space for my game, or #5 since it either sets up a high D4 or a potential D6 counter.

Image

tonyfung1205 — 2007-12-11T08:26:29+00:00

Setup

Image

tonyfung1205 — 2007-12-11T08:25:47+00:00

Game mat of my copy is a white thin cloth with black printing

Image

tonyfung1205 — 2007-12-11T08:23:45+00:00

My copy comes in a transparent plastic pizza box.

Thread: Re: [Review] Knockabout

mkgray — 2006-03-23T15:52:29+00:00

I've got to echo Aaron's comments here. There is not a ton of luck in Knockabout. Against equally matched players, clearly luck plays a role, but there is a much greater variety of tactical play which allows you to almost totally mitigate that luck.

I know it may sound harsh, and I mean no insult, but I'd say if you're seeing randomness dominate the games, you're playing too randomly. Of the 15+ people I've played this game with, it's essentially never been an issue. Sometimes it takes a game or two to learn to avoid the "hail mary" kind of plays, but most seem to catch on pretty quick: Hold the center, establish forks, avoid bumping your opponent more than you might initially tend to.

And, in terms of comparison to Warp 6, while I enjoy Warp 6, I enjoy Knockabout far more. I'd strongly encourage anyone interested in this game not to be deterred by any concern over randomness/luck. If you like 2-player abstracts, it's very worth a look. I find Knockabout as compelling as the best of the Kris Burm games.

Thread: Re: [Review] Knockabout

slam74 — 2006-03-22T20:59:23+00:00

I like the game just fine. I just fear I'm not very good at it....

Althought, admittedly, I like Warp 6 more.

Thread: Re: [Review] Knockabout

aarondf@bu.edu — 2006-03-22T19:29:52+00:00

I posted this reply to Spielfrieks but am reposting here. I would also note that it was pointed out to me that Tom's rating for this game (5) is the lowest of ALL the ratings on BGG and the average rating is 7.45. I would suggest to you that it is Tom, and not me, that is missing something. I also personally know many of the people rating the game and basically none of them are fans of luck-fests.

Tom Vasel wrote:
> After my very positive impressions of Pair-of-Dice games Marvin
> Marvel's Marvelous Marble Machine and Warp 6, I had high impressions
> of games made by the company. The next one from this company that I
> then tried was Knockabout (Pair-of-Dice Games, 2001 - Greg Lam). As
> with Warp 6, the game uses several different types of dice; as with
> MMMMM, it simulates marbles rolling around.
>
> Recently, I reviewed Warp 6, and I talked about how all the dice in
> the game didn't add as much luck as I thought - that the game revolved
> around strategy. In Knockabout, I'm afraid to say that the opposite
> is true. Yes, there are tactical decisions to be made in the game,
> but they are overwhelmed by the rolls of the dice. In the games that
> I've played the games have been won by the persons who have rolled
> better numbers on the dice. Rolling the dice I don't have a problem
> with, but I'm not sure I like how much high rolls affected the game.

I have to _strongly_ disagree with this. Yes, it is an advantage
in general to roll high but there is quite a lot of skill in this game. In
fact, Knockabout is probably in my top 25 games of all-time and top-5
two-player games and I am NOT a fan of mostly luck games. Greg Lam has
achieved with this game the amazing feat of creating an interesting 2P abstract
game with randomness. I can think of NO other game that succeeds nearly as
well at this. This game is by far my favorite of the Pair-of-Dice games!

I wish Knockabout were available online so that I could challenge you,
Tom, to a game or three of it. My records (which admittedly may not be quite
complete) say that I've played this game 8 times and never lost and I can tell
you in at least a couple of those games I was much LESS lucky than my opponent.
I actually like this game enough that I wish that 8 plays number were way
higher but I pretty rarely play 2P games AND I found some of my opponents not
wanting to play me again after the first game cause they felt they were way
outclassed. This issue is its own problem but is OPPOSITE of the complaint
that the game is all about luck.

> 4.) Luck: When one of your dice knocks the opponent's dice backwards,
> almost to the gutter, and then he rolls an "8" with it, hitting you
> back into your own gutter, it can be rather annoying. Yes, one should
> take into account the different possibilities, but it's just a little
> too random for me. In Warp 6, the different numbers on the die often
> had many good benefits, because smaller numbers could be used to
> "warp" down a level. In Knockabout, there's really no benefit to a
> "1", and it really stinks when that's what you roll.

First off, its not true that 1s are always bad. You even mention
the reason in your previous paragraph. High numbers are powerful but
limited because if there is nothing (or only your own dice in the way) they
push too far and can not just get out of the way of a threat like low
numbers can. Yes, high numbers are certainly generally better but not
just plain better and the dice start out at low values for this reason - a
large part of the game is looking for opportunities to increase the values
of your dice, particularly the 6s and 8s.

On your specific example, this move is almost certainly a very bad one
on your part and should have only been done if you had no choice. Rolling your
opponent's 8-sideds (assuming currently set for a low number) is just about the
worst move you can make in the game and particularly if there is a chance that
it could immediately kill one of your dice. Even if it doesn't kill your die,
he can almost always reverse the attack you made and since he is using the
highest value die in the game, you have at best an even chance (with your 8) to
win such a war. You should not have hit this die unless you could have put it
into the gutter or had no choice for defensive reasons or such. Basically,
knocking a die _near_ the gutter has limited value as most of the time he can
get away. Either put it into the gutter or set up another attack.

I think Tom is JUST PLAIN WRONG in this review and really hope he
doesn't dissuade people from trying this great game or make them think this
game is the opposite of what it is, an intense skillful abstract with a
random element livening it up but NOT dominating, unless the players are of
very equal skill level.

Aaron

ps. Yes, I might be the biggest fan of this game on the planet actually. I
actually have the feeling I like it even better than Greg (the designer) does.

Thread: [Review] Knockabout

TomVasel — 2006-03-21T10:22:44+00:00

After my very positive impressions of Pair-of-Dice games Marvin Marvel's Marvelous Marble Machine and Warp 6, I had high impressions of games made by the company. The next one from this company that I then tried was Knockabout (Pair-of-Dice Games, 2001 - Greg Lam). As with Warp 6, the game uses several different types of dice; as with MMMMM, it simulates marbles rolling around.

Recently, I reviewed Warp 6, and I talked about how all the dice in the game didn't add as much luck as I thought - that the game revolved around strategy. In Knockabout, I'm afraid to say that the opposite is true. Yes, there are tactical decisions to be made in the game, but they are overwhelmed by the rolls of the dice. In the games that I've played the games have been won by the persons who have rolled better numbers on the dice. Rolling the dice I don't have a problem with, but I'm not sure I like how much high rolls affected the game.

The board is in the shape of a giant hexagon, made up of a grid of smaller connecting hexagons. The outer ring of hexes is the "gutter", and each player sets up four four-sided dice, three six-sided dice, and two eight-sided dice on the board, as shown per a diagram in the rules. Each die is placed with a certain number face up - "1", "2", and "3" respectively, and one of the two players is chosen to go first.

On a player's turn, they move one of their dice in a straight line, moving the exact amount of spaces equal to the number showing on the die. The die will continue to move the full amount unless it bumps into another die. When hitting another die, the die that is hit is moved in the same direction as the colliding die, using the remainder of the movement points. It's possible for more than one die to be hit in a move. The last die that is moved in such a collision is re-rolled, gaining new movement capabilities.

When a die lands in the gutter, it no longer moves in a straight line but can simply only move around the outside of the gutter. Dice in the gutter can be maneuvered in such a way as to block other dice from entering the gutter but are otherwise useless. The game continues until one player has knocked five of their opponent's dice into the gutter - at which point they win!

Some comments on the game…

1.) Components: As with the other Pair-of-Dice games, the components are inexpensive and of lower quality but functional enough to utilize the game. The board is on a vinyl mat, which works better than the boards in the other games - and wipes off as well - although it looks a little drab. The dice are functional, although they don't really roll as well as I'd like. Everything comes in a plastic snap container, and the entire package is rather cheap to buy online.

2.) Rules: The rules are quite simple and short - only one side of one page, and that's including several diagrams illustrating setup and movement. Teaching the game to others isn't difficult, I simply use the idea of marbles moving around, knocking each other off the board, into the gutter. The theme works fairly well as a teaching tool, although for some it's hard to imagine the dice as marbles.

3.) Tactics: Sometimes it's worth hitting your own die, simply to change the number to a higher one, giving you more maneuverability. Of course, too high of a number, and your die may be stuck, because all of the available moves might cause it to end up in the gutter. There is also a bit of tactical movement in the gutter itself, as you can use pieces to block your own dice from hitting the gutter; but it's not as much as you might think, since you're at the mercy of the number on the die.

4.) Luck: When one of your dice knocks the opponent's dice backwards, almost to the gutter, and then he rolls an "8" with it, hitting you back into your own gutter, it can be rather annoying. Yes, one should take into account the different possibilities, but it's just a little too random for me. In Warp 6, the different numbers on the die often had many good benefits, because smaller numbers could be used to "warp" down a level. In Knockabout, there's really no benefit to a "1", and it really stinks when that's what you roll.

5.) Fun Factor: I won't deny that I enjoyed certain aspects of the game; it's an interesting two player game that plays fairly quickly, and I like knocking the opponent's pieces into the gutter. But every time that I've played so far, we've really had no general strategy (not after the first couple of moves, anyway); it's more like one simply needs move their high numbered pieces to knock the opponent's into the gutter. It's a neat, fun idea, but doesn't hold much water after the novelty wears off.

There will probably be some who enjoy the game - the theme is interesting, and I've always enjoyed using dice as playing pieces. It's simply too random for me; and while this is fortunately mitigated to a degree by how short the game is, it's enough to keep me from frequently playing the game. Moving dice around is satisfied by Warp 6, and the theme is better represented in other abstract games; so this is one that I can pass. An interesting game, but too much luck.

Tom Vasel
"Real men play board games"
www.tomvasel.com

Image

slam74 — 2005-12-12T22:16:16+00:00

Knockabout: Midgame position

Image

slam74 — 2005-12-12T22:16:16+00:00

Knockabout: starting positions

Thread: Knockabout Three Player Variant

slam74 — 2005-12-11T20:37:25+00:00

A Knockabout three player variant is described here:

http://www.pair-of-dice.com/games/knockabout/knockthreeplaye...

Quite frankly, I'm not sure how well it works as a game. I'd be interested in hearing comments about it.

Thread: User Review

Taxers — 2003-07-03T13:15:55+00:00

This is my first user review. As it has been specially requested by the game designer, let me first say that I enjoy the game, but have not yet given it sufficient thought to add to the lore and gravity of the game. The game is somewhere between sumo and chess - with a great defensive component that I have failed in my playings to explore fully.

Knockabout is a two player game where the player has nine pieces (4 d4, 3 d6 and 2 d8) at his disposal. Each of the pieces is arranged in a formation sumo style, and the object of the game is to push five of the other player's pieces into the trench (also in the manner of sumo or abalone). The board is hexagonal. Each of the pieces may move the number of spaces that is showing on its face. Every time a die is bumped, or "knocked" by another - and it is the last die in the line - it will be rerolled to a new number. The higher the number, the more damage a die can do.

When the pieces are in the start position, the d4s (or pawns, as we call them) are alligned nose to nose and are rolled to show the number 1. This means they can move one space at the outset. The d6s (or bishops) have the number 2 on top. The d8s (or queens) have the number 3 on top.

The game is begun by knocking your own pieces to get higher numbers on them. This creates opportunities by forcing your opponent to react to the strength and reach of your pieces. A summary of the opportunities that we face and our slang terms for them are as follows:

1. Shoving match. Two dice can be in the same path. If one pushes the other, causing a reroll, the other will get to push back with the new number. Two d8's can cause a big shoving match - and other dice on the board will not be safe. And d6's and d4s are not recommended for a shoving match with a d8. That can spell disaster.

2. Pushing into traffic. When a d8 reaches a high number (7 or 8) it becomes relatively immoble (the board is only so big). You can use your d4s and d6s to nudge opponents dice into the vortex (the six paths that the angry queen can march down). The opponent rerolls, then must decide: knock the queen (possible death), get off the road (also possible death), get into a shoving match with the pesky piece that pushed you out in the first place. All unpleasant choices.

3. Blocked piece. When you can move a die in between two opponent's dice (a checkers move), your die is safe (from those two dice). This can give you the power to push at the right time.

4. Safe piece. If you can use the trench to block your exit, you can get into a shoving match with whoever you want.

The key to this game is to get into a position where you have the power to knock two opponents off the board at the end of your move. Your opponent can only save one and must lose the other. It is a lot like checkers in that way.

My final synopsis: good game. Reminiscient of the greats, checkers, chess - with an element of luck from a clever die roll. However, dice rolling will not save you in this game. Only board awareness and excellent placement can make you a knockabout champion.

Thread: Session Report

Taxers — 2003-07-03T13:14:06+00:00

Even though this is the first session report, I guaranty that some people out there are playing Knockabout. I know that I am. I suppose I should just write a review and get to the game session in this report.

Al and I decided to turn to Knockabout, an interesting, dice driven game. I began the game by knocking my pawn with a d6, then knocking a d6 with my pawn. That gave me the head of steam necessary to start to knock Al off the board. I had some early success knocking Al's pawns off the board with my d6's. However, I made a grave miscalculation and left two d8's in line with one of Al's d8s - which gave him the momentum to knock my d8 out. With one d8 gone, I had to go into prevent mode - protecting a lot of my dice with trench stoppers.

We found that the d8s rolled to a 7 or 8 could suffer from immobility. There is nowhere on the board you can move a die that moves 7 or 8 at a time, and no one will move into your vortex. This rendered Al's d8's useless for a time and allowed me to get back into the game.

We called the game a draw as we both struggled to send the deciding piece home. All in all, a good time and a good game.

Thread: Knockabout Opening Moves

slam74 — 2002-09-03T18:18:27+00:00

I believe that this game will have a few openings which will become the standard opening moves. None are foolproof, of course, but here are the opening moves I think will be the most common among experienced players:

1. Move an 8 sided die (D8) diagonally forward towards the middle forward to knock a 6 sided die (D6). If the D6 lands on a 4 or above, you get an immediate scoring threat. A 6 will get you a double threat. The D8 is in position to get knocked as well.

2. Move the middle D6 up two. A shoving match between your middle D6 and the opponent's middle D6 is risky, but could result in a very dangerous placement for the first mover. Your opponent may choose to ignore that one, thinking that as long as the digit remains at two it will be a limited threat.

3. Move the middle D6 back two. It is now in position to knock both D8s into potentially threatening numbers. Quick offense, since each D8 would have a 5/8 chance of being an immediate threat. Perhaps vulnerable to counterattack.

4. Move one of the middle D4's back one. It is now in position to knock two of the D6's into higher numbers. A little conservative.

5. Move one of the D8's straight up, knocking into a D4. Carve out positional space in the middle. The second move can have your D4 knock the D8, possibly creating a dangerous number.

That's what I've come up with. I'd love to hear cases for other openings.

Image

slam74 — 2002-07-22T12:36:32+00:00