Game: Palastgeflüster

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manolovila — 2008-08-10T21:11:47+00:00

Palast Cartas Resumen y marcadores en Español by Manol Vila

Thread: Re: When it's your turn and you have no cards

Liumas — 2008-08-04T02:08:47+00:00

I'm just glad we over here now have this cleared up! How we got there doesn't matter, and this thread will be valuable in the future for anyone else having the same problem. Thanks.

Thread: Re: When it's your turn and you have no cards

Psauberer — 2008-08-03T14:21:13+00:00

Well, at least that reply reminded me to apologize for being so pissy in my post. I guess that I have encountered too many cases here on the Geek where someone had an erroneous interpretation stuck in their head and refused to acknowledge they were wrong unless they got a hand delivered note from teh designer, publisher, and printer (in triplicate) confirming that their own interpretation was incorrect.

Thread: Re: When it's your turn and you have no cards

Liumas — 2008-08-03T08:43:27+00:00

Starsunsky wrote:
Hi Chris,
This was already decided 3 or 4 days ago. Paul got it right (you're right, too), and I showed the rules translation which proved it. The english rules are wrong.

Nothing to see here, move on, go back to your home, your place of business...

Thread: Re: When it's your turn and you have no cards

Starsunsky — 2008-08-03T07:55:15+00:00

Hi Chris,

The rule is very clear to me, a foreign English speaker. So, I don't understand why it would happen as you mentioned for the Cup-bearer function.

A player may thus have a display which contains 2 of the same character.

It's clearly stated in GB-4,
If you play this card you exchange in each case one card of your choice in 2 different displays without provoking dark whispering (2 identical cards in one display)!.

This is a common construct, as least for me, that something cannot be done / caused / triggered for the sth in "without (sth)".

I would only play the game, per your logic, if the rule is written as " .... A display with 2 identical cards are allowed with this exchange and it does not cause a dark whispering.".

Thread: Re: When it's your turn and you have no cards

Liumas — 2008-07-30T12:46:21+00:00

Hi Paul,

By the way, it was your friend Anthony who discovered this situation.

Psauberer wrote:
I think this is one of the problems in English similar to the old SNL sketch with the phrase "You can never add too much water to a nuclear reactor."
Adlung-Spiele lately has better translations into English, but it is still a relaxed sort of English.

I found the Italian and German rules do not answer this question either.

Turns out the French rules get this across best:

"Si on joue cette carte, on doit echanger une carte quelconque de deux cours differentes sans provoquer d'intrigue dans le palais."

"If you play this card, you must exchange a card of two different displays without causing intrigue in the palace."

And the bolding here makes sense more than in the other translations.

We played the game as written in English. The Cup-bearer action as written makes sense at first glance, and seems so clear, but not in play. The funny thing was that when this situation *might* have occurred, we all played in such a way so as to avoid it (even after someone had duplicate cards in their display!). We knew there was something wrong with either the Cup-bearer action rules text or the end-of-round rules text (End Of Round *could* have been intended to occur with *any* 6 characters, as long as any played character did not itself provoke Dark Whisperings).

The French rules text for the Cup-bearer clears this up, and they agree with your thinking, Paul.

Psauberer wrote:
Every player will always have a total of six cards between what they have on display plus what is in hand.
No one disputed that!

Thread: Re: When it's your turn and you have no cards

Psauberer — 2008-07-30T02:00:44+00:00

Liumas wrote:
I *knew* I would have to explain this. (shrugs)

Starsunsky wrote:
Is it possible that a player has no cards to play?

If he has no cards left, he should have already won the round with 6 different cards.
The Mundschenk / Cup-bearer action allows you to exchange 1 card in the displays of 2 different players. Further, this action will not provoke Dark Whispering if the exchange causes 2 identical cards to exist within a display.

A player may thus have a display which contains 2 of the same character. When that player plays the 6th card to their display they have not won the round because they do not have 6 unique characters (they have 5 unique characters among 6 cards). On their next turn they have no card to play because their hand is empty.

The rules don't specifically address this situation.

No, a player may not play the cup bearer in such a way as to cause two of the same card to be in one player's display. I think this is one of the problems in English similar to the old SNL sketch with the phrase "You can never add too much water to a nuclear reactor."(The exact wording in the English version of the rules is, "If you play this card, you exchange in each case one card of your choice in 2 different displays without provoking dark whispering (2 identical cards in one display.)") It's not a case of swapping cards in such as way that two of the same don't provoke a dark whispering, but that you can't swap two cards in such a way that a dark whispering (defined as having two identical cards in the same display) happens. No, I don't have an official ruling handy to "prove" that this is the correct way, but I would challenge those who interpret it differently as to why, with two possible interpretations, the correct way would be one that creates ambiguities and broken situations while the other easily comprehended interpretation that avoids such situations would be incorrect.

Every player will always have a total of six cards between what they have on display plus what is in hand.

Thread: Re: When it's your turn and you have no cards

Liumas — 2008-07-29T22:04:01+00:00

I *knew* I would have to explain this. (shrugs)

Starsunsky wrote:
Is it possible that a player has no cards to play?

If he has no cards left, he should have already won the round with 6 different cards.
The Mundschenk / Cup-bearer action allows you to exchange 1 card in the displays of 2 different players. Further, this action will not provoke Dark Whispering if the exchange causes 2 identical cards to exist within a display.

A player may thus have a display which contains 2 of the same character. When that player plays the 6th card to their display they have not won the round because they do not have 6 unique characters (they have 5 unique characters among 6 cards). On their next turn they have no card to play because their hand is empty.

The rules don't specifically address this situation.

Thread: Re: When it's your turn and you have no cards

pijll — 2008-07-27T10:09:49+00:00

Starsunsky wrote:
In all, a player should always have 6 cards to play...
That's right: a player should always have 6 cards (counting both the cards in hand and the cards on the table). If he has no cards left in his hand, he has 6 on the table, so he has just won or lost the round.

Thread: Re: When it's your turn and you have no cards

Starsunsky — 2008-07-27T09:05:27+00:00

Is it possible that a player has no cards to play?

If he has no cards left, he should have already won the round with 6 different cards.

A player should always only play a single card in this turn. And, even if his cards got exchanged, he always has the same amount of cards exchanged.

In all, a player should always have 6 cards to play...

Thread: When it's your turn and you have no cards

Liumas — 2008-07-27T08:02:20+00:00

...is the round over? Is there Dark Whisperings?

We almost had this occur tonight in a 3 player game, twice.

We decided that it *would* cause Dark Whisperings for the player who could not play a card, because you must play a card on your turn (about the only word bolded in the rules).

Thread: Re: 3-player game

fs1973 — 2008-05-07T08:09:04+00:00

Thanks patrick

Thread: Re: 3-player game

trapeze — 2008-05-06T19:05:15+00:00

It plays very well with 3.

Thread: 3-player game

fs1973 — 2008-05-06T12:45:22+00:00

Does this game play well with 3 players?

bye,
costa

Thread: Re: Palastgeflüster - about the technical side of insidious intrigues

Waldemar — 2008-04-22T21:49:49+00:00

Castef wrote:
I totally disagree with your considerations about the player interaction in Palastgefluster.

The game is ALL about the player interaction and every single choice you take should be made carefully thinking at its interaction with the other players.

Well, I guess we are more of the same mind than it seems. I should have explained the term "player-interaction" more closely. While there is much, much interaction on a basis of "hey, play a blue card so it will be XX's turn again. He's got no more cards to play, I know it!", I always loosely defined player-interaction in my book as diplomacy in the purest sense.

But you are totally right, if you are taking things like tabletalk, shortest-term-pacts and gang-up-on-one-victim as defining parts of player-interaction, then Palastgeflüster is a veeery interactive game. We just don't play games that have none of the above mentioned, and so reserve the term "player-interaction" for clear-cut diplomacy.

Thread: Re: Palastgeflüster - about the technical side of insidious intrigues

Castef — 2008-04-21T15:12:08+00:00

I totally disagree with your considerations about the player interaction in Palastgefluster.

The game is ALL about the player interaction and every single choice you take should be made carefully thinking at its interaction with the other players.

Thread: Palastgeflüster - about the technical side of insidious intrigues

Waldemar — 2008-04-20T18:42:20+00:00

Disclaimer: This is my first try at reviewing a game. Please be kind to me...

So, you came to hear about Palastgeflüster, a light card game from the Adlung line? Then chances are high that you have some experience with Adlung games such as Die Kutschfahrt zur Teufelsburg, Verräter or Meuterer and want to play a fresh game familiar with some of those mentioned. Let's see how the game works out and compares to the other ones mentioned above.

Palastgeflüster is a game situated at a royal court, with each player representing a certain faction vieing with others to gain influence on the king. The means by which to obtain power are the ways of intrigue and blackmailing, disgracing other interest groups. The thematic setting translates into simple card plays with very little elements of diplomacy (if at all).

While it looks to have a fairly simply pasted-on theme at first and second look, the cabals become somehow thematic later on, when you have learned the game a bit. The smallest current nominator is a certain screw-you-by-subtle-means-feeling you obtain when being a bit familiar with the flow of the game. Also, it is more rewarding to screw others than to try to advance constructively for yourselves.

1. Game mechanics

The rules for Palastgeflüster are quite simple and forward. Your goal is to score points by either getting six different characters laying out in front of you or by bringing another player to play a character he already has in front of him for a second time. In both cases, the round is over immediately.

The game consists of different suits, each of which contains the same seven different characters. Each round, every player gets six cards with which he has to manage to win. The key to the game is to manage your six cards well by trying to avoid to be forced to play a character you already have in front of you, and by possibly playing six different characters on the table. That's all. Really. The game will end as soon as someone manages to score a certain number of wins, usually 4-6.

However, to reach this aim, you have to be aware of the implications of some very nifty game mechanics. First of all, there is no real turn order. The next player is always the one whose colour the just played character card matches. All character cards exist exactly once in every colour. So the played card determines the next player. The result is that the frequency in which you are to play a card is, to a certain degree, determined by clever play. There are also two suits of brown cards, which turn over play to the player with the fewest cards in front of him currently, some sort of "equalizer".

Secondly, every character card has a special ability which must be used when played. These special abilities range from some decently helpful to some very nasty, forcing trades of cards with other players or turning over a new king card.

What, a king card? Yes, indeed. The king, towering over the pit of snakes which is his court, has a fickle distaste for a changing certain character, whose special ability may not be used while the character is disgraced before the king. So, as the game flows, you can never be sure of what your hand is worth, since you will constantly be forced to trade cards from your hand, exchange already played characters with other players, and be entirely unsure when your next turn will be. And then, if it's your turn, it might as well be that your well-thought-out plan is ruined since the king's disgrace robbs your card play of it's special ability. The realms of power are made of thin air, indeed.

Overview over the character cards (in the red suit):

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2. Feeling of the game

Palastgeflüster plays very smoothly. After some time you will notice that no round is like any round before, but an entirely different experience. This is not to say that luck has a very big influence on the game; besides the initial distribtion of cards, you are dependent from clever tactical play. But, since the possibilities to interfere with one another are so numerous, the flow of the game will invariably be determined by a certain amount of chaos.

This chaos hinders a player to plan far ahead, but instead forces everybody to always adapt to the momentary situation - and to read the other players' body language. Yes, there is a decent amount of "Poker" in this game, and you'll always have to try to put yourself in the other players' shoes to be successful. After quite some plays, it seems to me that rather than figuring out some optimal moves and to learn to use the games' mechanics to the maximum, constantly paying attention to what happens around the table and trying to read your opponents is the key to winning.

However, there is something I find quite discomforting with this game, and that is the way it plays out in most cases. After a few plays, everybody realizes that it is much, much harder to try to get six different characters out in front of you, thereby scoring a point for your own, than it is to try to force someone else to play some character twice, thereby gaining a point for everybody else. So, ofttimes the game revolves around staying in cover for as long as possible, but forcing other players to make bad moves and possibly screwing them, if the chance arises. Yet, this "knife in the back"-style has some intriguing feeling on it's own. And do you remember the theme? Insidious intrigues, backstabbing galore - everybody who, at times, likes to play mean games might as well have a look at this one.

3. Evaluation

Player interaction:
Malice:
Screw-you-factor:
Entertainment:
Analysis-Paralysis:

Keep in mind: It will be a common appearance that two or three players win at the same time, since in most cases everybody but one at the table will score points. Be pleased with the results, though - the king's heart for contumacious, conniving conspirators is big, as long as they keep entertaining him...

Thread: Re: Should be Palast von Flüchen

David Vander Ark — 2008-04-14T00:04:23+00:00

Note that there are only six king cards. There is no King card that cancels out the action of the Hofmarschall, or once that King card was turned up you'd never be able to change the king for the rest of the game.

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jsper — 2008-02-22T18:02:46+00:00

Cover of multulengual rulebook

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jsper — 2008-02-22T17:54:38+00:00

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jsper — 2008-02-22T17:53:24+00:00

Resume card

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jsper — 2008-02-22T17:41:26+00:00

Side of the box

Thread: Re: Can the Guard close a round?

tejmo — 2008-02-16T22:54:24+00:00

Castef wrote:
Second question: at the end of a round do you remove the active King card?

No. You leave it active. I don't see how else to interpret the rules. To begin the game there is no king card. After that you leave the king cards as they are between rounds.

Thread: Re: Can the Guard close a round?

Castef — 2008-02-12T00:43:06+00:00

Second question: at the end of a round do you remove the active King card?

The instruction booklet says that "the king cards remain on the table for the next round". This means I do not remove the active king card?

Thread: Re: Can the Guard close a round?

trapeze — 2008-02-11T21:34:56+00:00

Anthony is correct.

Thread: Re: Can the Guard close a round?

LemonyFresh — 2008-02-11T16:04:21+00:00

I don't have it in front of me, but I believe it's in the rules that you never activate the character that causes you to end the round.

- Anthony

Thread: Can the Guard close a round?

Castef — 2008-02-11T14:48:54+00:00

I've got a pair of doubts about the rules.

First: the Guard requires you to pick back one of the characters in the court: does this means that if you play it as the sixth character you can't complete the serie?

Thread: This king gets angry very quickly!

Castef — 2008-02-11T13:17:06+00:00

Pre-review statement: Adlung's recent lineup of card games have been somewhat blessed. Overall quantity has risen considerably, plus they also hired some very good artists, while keeping the price low as usual. So, now we have three games in a row, Die Kutschfahrt zur Teufelsburg, Im Bann der Pyramide and this Palastgefluster, which are well worth the purchase. Well done, Adlung.

And now, the review.

Learning how to play Palastgefluster is easier than learning how to pronunce its name. It is a very straight-forward card game, base on slick mechanics. Each player is assigned to a color (or vice-versa, as you prefer...) and each player is dealt with six random card from a deck containing sets of seven character cards in five different colors (plus two complete sets in a neutral color).

Players have to play a character card on each turn, trying to deploy 6 different characters at the end of the round and absolutely avoiding of playing 2 identical characters.

When a player manages to play 6 different characters (regardless of their color), then he scores 1 point and the round ends. When a player is forced to play a character identical to one he already played in his "court" he makes the king angry and the round ends, with all the other players gaining 1 point.

The game ends as soon as a certain amount of points is reached (4 points for a 5 players game, 5 for a 4 players game and so on...).

There are two interesting gimmicks in the gameplay. First, the color of the played character card designs the next player who will play. So, if the red player plays a green character, then the green player goes next. It is allowed to play cards of his own color in order to take consecutive rounds. When a neutral card is played, then the next turn goes to the player with less cards in his court (in case of a tie he who played the card chooses).

The other interesting gameplay twist is related to the characters: each of them has his own special ability that have to be used as soon as the character is played. For instance, the Mage requires two players to exchange a given number of cards from their hands, while the waitress forces the player to discard a card from his hand and draw a new one. There are also negative effects on the characters, such as the treasureer who forces the player to show his entire hand to the other players.

The game is quick and well structured, quite original too. Too bad it is afflicted by a clear king-making tendency: when a player is near the winning total, then he probably won't get the chance to play by other players. This is partially mitigated by the neutral-color cards, which will force him to play sooner or later (a very good idea).

The game works very well in all the players range (from 3 to 5), although it seems more balanced with 3 players.

I'd give it seven ninjas out of ten.

The Bottom Line: So, wrapping-up, for 5-6 dollars you get a nice card game, with good graphics, simple and quite original mechanics. It is not perfect, but it is well worth the money and plays as a really quick and entertaining filler in the flavour of Citadels and Hoax.

Thread: Should be Palast von Flüchen

Paul Mackie — 2008-01-08T03:00:48+00:00

For the Eighth card of Palastgeflüster my opponent gave to me:
Eight Mundschenks a-moving
Seven Schatzmeisters showing
Six zapping Zauberers
Five hairy Hofmarschalls
Four Wachters wachting
Three Zofes zerving
Two hopeless Hoffnarrs
And a quiet Konig in the corner…

Apparently this was the 2007 Essen release from Adlung. Although the literal translation is “Palace Whisperings” (or something like it), it seems the English version is called “Dark Whisperings”.
The object is to play your six cards in front of you without repeating a card in your tableau, and/or force an opponent to repeat one of theirs. Each player is assigned a colour, and one of each of seven character cards of those colours, along with a bunch of non-player characters, is shuffled into the deck. The playing of a character card also allows/requires a specific action to be played, and the colour of the played card indicates which player must play next. Non-player cards cause the least-active player for the round to play next.
There is also a central Konig deck, containing one of each of the seven character types to be ‘vetoed’. The uppermost character in the Konig deck is an indication that if this character is played by someone, the special effect of that character is not applied. If that character is the Hoffnar (jester), playing of this card causes the player to lose the round instantly.

Our game was kind of slow to get started, as we all got used to the various character effects - the first round took 23 minutes for five players. I imagine there will be similar experiences with other first-timers, as well as an early temptation to leave the game on the shelf after the first playing. But I’m glad this one came out again a few days later, as we’d learned better patterns of play and found it a better experience overall after a bit more practice. There are interesting balances of risk-taking, risk management (well, you’re somewhat limited in the latter), and whacky chaos once you get into the swing of it. The chaotic nature of plays like the swapping Zauberer means that you’ll never be in full control of your own destiny, but this makes for a wild ride, and usually much cursing of your opponents.
7 mins rules; 59 mins game time.
Results: Pat (blue): 4 (+5 cards played in last round). Paul (purple), Rick (yellow): 4 (+4). Lindsay (red): 3. Paula (green): 1.

(Originally posted in The Mine Shaft Gap.)

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garea37 — 2007-11-12T17:14:11+00:00

Playing in Ludic Bar Queimada - Barcelona - Spain

Thread: Re: English Rules Available?

potts_games — 2007-11-02T02:47:49+00:00

Thanks for the feedback.

Thread: Re: English Rules Available?

visard — 2007-11-01T07:55:17+00:00

The game comes with rules in German, English, French and Italian.

Thread: Re: English Rules Available?

jtakagi — 2007-11-01T04:07:20+00:00

Usually Adlung includes English rules in their games (even if it is often difficult to decipher). I assume that it would be the same here, but I don't own the game.

Thread: English Rules Available?

potts_games — 2007-11-01T03:18:49+00:00

Read a couple reviews for this game, and it sounds interesting. Are there any English rules (or translations) available?

Thanks!

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oskari — 2007-10-28T16:51:56+00:00

Box back

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garea37 — 2007-10-26T23:56:02+00:00

Playing in Ludic Bar Queimada - Barcelona - Spain.

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visard — 2007-10-23T06:59:31+00:00

Blue arrow card and favour marker

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visard — 2007-10-23T06:58:04+00:00

Red character cards