Game: World War II: Barbarossa to Berlin

Thread: Questions about Neutrals and "Achse"-Event

Berlin Bear — 2008-08-30T11:43:45+00:00

I have two questions about this wonderful game.

1.Neutrals:
In our last game the allied player declared war on Sweden in order to take the iron at Sundsval - Sweden now entered the war.
In rule No. 17.4 it says, that the other player is now allowed to operate with the swedish units (same thing happens with turkish units on a declaration of war against Turkey).
Now my questions:
a)Is Sweden from now on an ally of the axis player and do all the neutral spaces in Sweden change to axis control (including + 1VP for control of Stockholm) ? or……
b)If Sweden does not become a german ally (what I suppose is right, because there is nothing in the rules to it) do the Germans themselves have to declare war on Sweden in order to enter swedish territorry later in the game (including 1 VP penalty, if this happens before „Casablanca“) ?

But if this is the case then both sides could alternately use the swedish units (which seems rather strange)……

2."Achse"-Event
Card No. 31 says that German LCUs may now operate in Italy south of Bologna/La Spezia. Before playing this event is it allowed to combat from La Spezia to Rome and if successfull also advancing into Rome ?

Anyone can help ?

Tnx !

Thread: Re: Counters replacement.

dogmatix — 2008-08-29T02:22:31+00:00

Gedeone wrote:

My counters are too used so I would replace them with a new set.

Do you know if GMT sell counters set only?

Thanks

They do. Contact them directly through their website and ask about replacement counters. They may do it for free or they may charge you a few dollars per sheet [this policy seems to change depending on who you get in the office]

Thread: Re: 'Totaler Krieg' card

marconegrelli — 2008-08-17T18:25:42+00:00

Thank you Mark!

Thread: Re: 'Totaler Krieg' card

Minedog3 — 2008-08-17T08:42:50+00:00

marconegrelli wrote:
This is a card for the Axis player.
What does it mean ? ... If the Axis has got 11 or more VP with this card he won't have an Automatic victory .. but he'll receive 20 VP (11 + 20 = 31)!!!
For the Allied player maybe this is the end ... or not ?
Thank you !

not the end at all. The Allies have two chances to win.
Take all three depots in Germany, or it is in fact possible to wear the Axis down to 0 VP.

Thread: Re: 'Totaler Krieg' card

marconegrelli — 2008-08-17T08:02:16+00:00

Thank you Joel !
It will be so. I played only once the game and in 'solo'. With this card the Axis won easily ... but maybe is because I've to learn the mechanism of the play.

Thread: Re: 'Totaler Krieg' card

joel_m_toppen — 2008-08-16T22:00:44+00:00

Not quite. After play of Totaler Krieg, the Axis player can no longer win the Automatic Victory (See victory conditions--i think it's on the card too but don't have the game handy at the moment). The point here is that Germany is now shifting to a 'long-war' strategy. The goal at this point will be for the Germans to prevent the Allies from accomplishing their victory conditions.

Thread: 'Totaler Krieg' card

marconegrelli — 2008-08-16T21:27:05+00:00

This is a card for the Axis player.
What does it mean ? ... If the Axis has got 11 or more VP with this card he won't have an Automatic victory .. but he'll receive 20 VP (11 + 20 = 31)!!!
For the Allied player maybe this is the end ... or not ?
Thank you !

Thread: Re: Doubts...

marconegrelli — 2008-08-16T21:04:19+00:00

Thank you very much Dirk and John !!

Thread: Re: Doubts...

John St — 2008-08-16T17:52:46+00:00

marconegrelli wrote:
I played the game for the first time (solo).
I've some doubts:

1. REGULAR CONNECTIONS:
the spaces are connected by path (black lines), river (blue dots) and SR route. For the Movement and combat purpose the regular connection are only the black lines (path) ?

2. MULTISPACES COMBAT:
When I attack from 2 adjacent spaces I've to spend 2 activations point (one for each space) ?

3. ALLIED INVASION:
If in the first space they land they have to retreat, are they eliminated ?

For the moment .. is all.
Thank you very much !
Bye all !!

1. You can move along river connections as well

2. Yes, and there must also be an attacking mechanized unit in the other spaces (not including the original space) for a multi space attack.

3. Not sure what you mean here. If an invading unit is attacking and loses the combat, it would simply stay on the beach head (attackers don't retreat). If on the beach head and was attacked, it can cancel the retreat by losing a step (like forests, trenches, etc)

Thread: Re: Doubts...

Bloody Gauntlet — 2008-08-16T15:47:12+00:00

marconegrelli wrote:
I played the game for the first time (solo).
I've some doubts:

1. REGULAR CONNECTIONS:
the spaces are connected by path (black lines), river (blue dots) and SR route. For the Movement and combat purpose the regular connection are only the black lines (path) ?

River, too.

2. MULTISPACES COMBAT:
When I attack from 2 adjacent spaces I've to spend 2 activations point (one for each space) ?

At least two, depending on nationalities in the activated spaces there might be more, of course.

3. ALLIED INVASION:
If in the first space they land they have to retreat, are they eliminated ?

Since Beach heads aren't 'spaces' - and only those can be entered - I suppose that yes, they are eliminated. But I'm not absolutely sure about that...

Thread: Doubts...

marconegrelli — 2008-08-15T16:20:10+00:00

I played the game for the first time (solo).
I've some doubts:

1. REGULAR CONNECTIONS:
the spaces are connected by path (black lines), river (blue dots) and SR route. For the Movement and combat purpose the regular connection are only the black lines (path) ?

2. MULTISPACES COMBAT:
When I attack from 2 adjacent spaces I've to spend 2 activations point (one for each space) ?

3. ALLIED INVASION:
If in the first space they land they have to retreat, are they eliminated ?

For the moment .. is all.
Thank you very much !
Bye all !!

Thread: Re: Leningrad - corridor of death

anemaat — 2008-07-04T12:29:00+00:00

The Corridor of Death is a historical novelty in this game that works quite nice.

If the Germans wants to isolate Leningrad they only have to occupy Luga and Novgorod, when their frontline is further east. Otherwise Tikhvin Volkhov or Zahore needs to be occupied as well, with the risk of being isolated, when Novgorod becomes under attack.

Thread: Re: Leningrad - corridor of death

Minedog3 — 2008-07-04T09:28:58+00:00

domus_ludorum wrote:

- Enables SR into Leningrad (?)

Yes, and this can be exceptionally useful to SR in new Shock armies to bolster the Defending Front.

domus_ludorum wrote:

- Allows you to replace step losses on units in Leningrad with RP's (?)

Actually the fortress limited supply allows this I believe, the Corridor of Death has nothing to do with this. Even if the Corridor of Death is cut, Leningrad can replace step losses, but not place new LCUs (or Shock Armies or Tank Armies for those card plays).

Thread: Leningrad - corridor of death

domus_ludorum — 2008-07-03T13:00:19+00:00

What benefit, if any, does holding the space from which the 'corridor of death' runs to Leningrad.

Assuming that the Russians still hold Leningrad but the Germans hold all of the other spaces except for that linked by the 'corridor of death'. As Leningrad is a fort it acts as a 'limited supply' source for the units inside anyway. As the 'corridor of death' is just a dotted line that still only allows limited supply so that is not really a benefit. As it doesn't allow full supply you can't place reinforcements in Leningrad, so what can you do extra as oppossed to just be sitting there totally surrounded. Posibilities:-

- Enables SR into Leningrad (?)
- Allows you to replace step losses on units in Leningrad with RP's (?)

Can anyone confirm?

Thanks.

Thread: Re: 1941 - A Soviet Nightmare Scenario

Minedog3 — 2008-07-02T12:30:08+00:00

I've lived this nightmare, Stalin was killed in Moscow, and the Russian Front ran from Rostov to Stalingrad. The Red Army dwelt mostly in the destroyed box.

The Western Allies pulled out all the stops, and used Roundup to invade France, Shingle & Husky to invade Italy. The key turning point was playing Casablanca, because that gave me enough VP locations to not lose, and surprisingly the Allies won in 1944 with a US sweep through Bavaria (Total Krieg was never played).

Thread: Re: 1941 - A Soviet Nightmare Scenario

John St — 2008-07-01T16:45:15+00:00

I believe it's in the setup rules that if you don't draw either Soviet reinforcement card after the first card draw and discarding, you may treat any 3 or higher value card as card 24

Thread: 1941 - A Soviet Nightmare Scenario

anemaat — 2008-07-01T15:39:45+00:00

1941 - A Soviet Nightmare Scenario

I have played BtB many times since the release of the game, both face-to-face as by ACTS. However when playing with the Allies I always had an very uncomfortable feeling: there is no absolute garantee that you survive the first year simply by good play. Even if your opponent is a beginner!

Recently I have found out what it exactly is. Here is a Nightmare Scenario from the Soviet point of view.

General Soviet Strategy
The best general strategy is to hold Moscow, so concentrate most of your troops along the way to Moscow and around in order to maintain a supplyline. The loss of Leningrad and the Ukraine can be survived, but you need Stalin later in the game. The 1 RP loss per Replacement Card played is a heavy toll to pay.
Sometimes it is usefull to use the No Retreat Option in order to delay the German advance, which is something you should do all the time along the whole front. Try to make stacks of at least 5 Combat Factors, which is one full strength Army stacked with one full strength Front. Then one German Army involved in an attack on such stacks will certainly lose one step too. Keep in mind that every destroyed German Army will have to be rebuild in Warsaw and it is a long walk to the front.

Turn 1: June 1941
You draw all high OPS Cards but no reinforcement cards, especially the 7 fronts and 7 armies from cards 2 and 24. You are now forced to discard all or all but one in order to apply to the last paragraph of rule 4.4. You absolutely need cards 2 or 24 on Turn 2 to delay the German advance or an encirclement of Moscow.

Turn 2: Summer 1941
You don't draw cards 2 or 24 and only low OPS cards. This means you can't do much to delay the German advance while saving your Fronts and Armies. The fall of Moscow is possible and the evacuation of Stalin to Kuibishev on the first Action Round is necessary now the Germans are out of reach of Kuibishev. Use a 2-OPS card and strategically move one Army with him. You can then evacuate him from the third Action Round on out of reach of the Germans.
If you don't draw cards 2 or 24, but have a considerable number of high OPS cards, you might leave Stalin in Moscow. But entrenchements are needed in Moscow and don't forget Tula. Play a 3-OPS or higher card and apply the last paragraph of rule 4.4 or play your Soviet Reinforcement card 24.

Turn 3: Fall 1941
This will be a crucial turn. If card - 2 Soviet Reinforcements still didn't show up and you only draw 2- and 3-OPS Cards you might lose the game. From turn 3 the evacuation of Stalin is no longer an option, because Kuibishev is within German reach. What may save you is that the German player don't hold card 4 - Taifun. If you failed to entrench Moscow you may face a disaster!
If the advance of the Germans goes too fast in the Ukraine make sure Maikop, Armavir and Stalingrad are occupied. The German player needs now to play card 9 - Hitler takes Command and card 14 - Fall Blau in order to gain 4 VPs in the Caucasus. If one of both cards have already passed as an OPS, you are safe for a number of turns.

Turn 4: Winter 1942
If the German player goes for the Caucasus or Leningrad or if the German advance lost its' momentum - many of his armies have been flipped - you have survived. Rebuild your Armies and Fronts and on to Berlin now!!

Nightmare Scenario in Short
* All high OPS-cards on Turn 1 and no Reinforcement Cards, which you all have to discard or discard all but one.
* All low OPS-Cards on Turn 3.
* Card 2 - Soviet Reinforments shows up in Turn 4, which is late.
* You failed to entrench Moscow and Stalin is still there.
* The German player plays card 4 - Taifun or he encircles Moscow which you were unable to break.
... you will certainly lose!

If you was not able to play card 6 - FDR Declares War as an event and your opponent didn't play his card 8 - Hitler Declares War, it can take a while before the Total War starts. And you really need those mechanized fronts in order to reach Berlin. If it takes too long before they show up, you might lose the game because of that!

In spite of above I always have enjoyed BtB a lot and I regard it as a very clever and sophisticated wargame. Though somewhat scripted and the card knowledge required beforehand I don't regard this as a design flaw. Bad card draws and bad die rolls simply can happen!

Regards,

Henri

Thread: Re: Panzergruppe Guderian Question

dellchili — 2008-06-28T02:09:06+00:00

Well...just found clarification in the Clarifications..on p.19

Very first sentence under cards outlaws a 2nd attack without a
first attack...
thx for responding...

Thread: Re: should I buy BtB or EE?

anemaat — 2008-06-19T22:34:33+00:00

My answers to your questions:

1. To a certain extent BtB is more suitable for solitary play. Play with both hands of cards but never - I repeat never - try to recollect what is in the opponents hand.
2. No, BtB places the European Theatre of WWII in the right perspective from operation Barbarossa onwards. The westfront becomes more and more important later in the war.
3. Air and naval war is depicted in an abstract way by cards in BtB.
4. EE is more than double the size of BtB. BtB can be played in 8 to 12 hours. Complexity of BtB is high but fair. It is a game with depth.
5. I own BtB from the beginning and I'm still not bored with it. Both games have a certain level of scripting. In BtB it makes sense in a satisfactory level.
6. BtB is the more serious game. You should buy the game you feel the most attracted to!

Stalin's War will be the successor of BtB.

Thread: Re: Panzergruppe Guderian Question

Minedog3 — 2008-06-19T10:01:51+00:00

dellchili wrote:
Does the 2nd PZ have to make a 1st attack to be able to make the
second attack given by the card...

Or can the 2nd Pz just move across the board...and after all other
combats are done...then make an attack (which could be devastating)??

One has to think that you cannot make a "second" attack without making a "first" attack.

I think your second suggestion would be expressed as "an attack subsequent to all others".

The updated Card Text

PANZERGRUPPE GUDERIAN: May not be
played after Hitler Takes Command. 2nd Pz Army
may make a second attack this round after all combats
have been completed. It may advance only one
space after this second combat. May not play during
Spring Thaw.

also see
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@699.lyz8dySD9BQ.27@.ee6e...

Thread: Panzergruppe Guderian Question

dellchili — 2008-06-19T05:47:42+00:00

Does the 2nd PZ have to make a 1st attack to be able to make the
second attack given by the card...

Or can the 2nd Pz just move across the board...and after all other
combats are done...then make an attack (which could be devastating)??

Thread: Counters replacement.

Gedeone — 2008-06-17T10:56:22+00:00

My counters are too used so I would replace them with a new set.

Do you know if GMT sell counters set only?

Thanks

Thread: Re: IRON rule question

richfam — 2008-06-14T09:10:54+00:00

The rulebook is correct: the Allied player must control both Iron spaces to reduce the Axis hand size.

This rule was changed when the rulebook was updated, but the reference card was not updated and thus still reflects the original rule, which is no longer used.

Thread: Re: Yelow card.....Spring Thaw.....Taifun Questions

richfam — 2008-06-14T08:57:35+00:00

james zajicek wrote:
1. Can Krim be played as an event during the Spring Thaw.....rendering the axis with 3 OPs
Yes.

james zajicek wrote:
2. Can Krim be played at any time....even if there is no attack being made on Sevastopol
Yes.

james zajicek wrote:
3. Can Luftwaffe Supply be played as a yellow event if there are no Axis units that are OOS
Yes.

james zajicek wrote:
4. If 3 is yes..then can Luftwaffe Supply be played during the Spring Thaw as a yellow event.
Yes.

james zajicek wrote:
5. Can Taifun be played as event during Spring Thaw
Yes (as an Event only, of course).

***

The following list was posted on ConsimWorld. These are the only cards that CAN be played as both Event/OPS in Spring Thaw:

For the Allies:
Casablanca
Romania Defects
Bulgaria Defects
IX Tac-Air
The Big Three
Yalta
Patton

For the Axis:
OKH Conference
Krim
Luftwaffe Supply
Skorzeny
Achse
Manstein

And designer Ted Raicer's comments (also from CSW):

Ted Raicer wrote:
"Always" Yellow cards can be played as dual ops/event cards during the Spring Thaw unless specifically prohibited, and provided all other prerequisites to play are satisfied.

"Provisional" Yellow cards can never be as dual ops/event cards during the Spring Thaw. They may be played as simple events at any time, provided such play is otherwise allowed.

Thread: Re: Devil's Gardens.....can be pitched??

richfam — 2008-06-14T08:25:39+00:00

No. It can only be played as a Combat Card card when the Axis player is defending in a Desert space.

Thread: Re: Winter 42 Rules--regarding Romanian Units

richfam — 2008-06-14T08:03:21+00:00

After checking on CSW, it appears that the presence of even just one German unit in the stack means that all of the Winter penalties would apply, both the 1L shift *and* the no terrain benefit on defense. In other words, a Romanian unit cannot help the German unit avoid the Winter penalties it would suffer if it was by itself.

So I think this battle would be a 9L vs 5L.

Thread: Re: US 7th Army....where does he come from??

John St — 2008-06-13T16:47:04+00:00

Yes for the 7th army. I believe the British 8th must come in to replace the Desert army first

Psst...the U.S 5th army only comes in under one of the invasions as well (this is to prevent another thread)

Thread: US 7th Army....where does he come from??

dellchili — 2008-06-13T07:26:46+00:00

I am confused....i see where the British 8th Army enters the game by replacing the Desert Army..card #21

But I cannot find such a card for US 7th...

And rule 7.63 states that to take part in an invasion they (US 7 and
BR8) must currently be in the Allied Reserve.....so playing Anvil-
Dragoon (card 52) is impossible until US7 is in the RB

From what i can see....only cards 53(Anvil-Dragoon) and #34 (Husky)
mention the US 7th

I guess my question could be this....can the allied player play
Husky...to bring in (BR8) and (US7) for the first time ??

Thread: Re: IRON rule question

John St — 2008-06-11T17:05:40+00:00

I would ignore the reference card and go by what the rulebook says

Thread: IRON rule question

dellchili — 2008-06-10T12:25:28+00:00

Rule 18.2 seems pretty clear that the Allied player must control both
iron spaces to hurt the Axis...
Thus..it seems that if Casablanca has not been played...and Sweden is
neutral (most likely) ...that the IRON space in Sundsvall is not
under Allied control... and no penalty to Axis

However..the player reference card indicates that the Axis loses a
card each turn if he/she controls 0 IRON spaces...

So which is it?? Can the Allied player hurt the Axis by playing
Sledgehammer..taking Trondheim....or must he also take Sundsvall???

Thread: Re: Yelow card.....Spring Thaw.....Taifun Questions

John St — 2008-06-05T17:02:48+00:00

If a yellow card can't be played during spring thaw, it will say so specifically at the bottom of the card

Thread: Devil's Gardens.....can be pitched??

dellchili — 2008-06-05T14:06:01+00:00

Can this card be played during any combat just to get rid of it, even
if the only attack is in Russia....??

Can this card be played during an Axis attack on an allied defender in
a desert space..just to get rid of it.?

Thread: Yelow card.....Spring Thaw.....Taifun Questions

dellchili — 2008-06-02T14:17:37+00:00

I have several specific questions

1. Can Krim be played as an event during the Spring Thaw.....rendering
the axis with 3 OPs (which can be a deadly boon)

2. Can Krim be played at any time....even if there is no attack being
made on Sevastopol (I am thinking as in Magic...where Krim targets
Sevastopol in a way...)

3. Can Luftwaffe Supply be played as a yellow event if there are no
Axis units that are OOS (again..this card seems to target OOS units)

4. If 3 is yes..then can Luftwaffe Supply be played during the Spring
Thaw as a yellow event.

5. Can Taifun be played as event during Spring Thaw

The answers seemingly (to me) are:
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes..this one seems especially obvious but deadliest as it can
also be used in Africa!

similarly....Panzer Refit can be played even if there aren't 3 reduced
strength Panzer units....

Oddly...Nordlicht (a 3-Yellow event) is specifically excluded from play
in Spring Thaw

Thread: Re: US 7th Army and British 8th Army in invasions

dougadamsau — 2008-05-30T01:16:03+00:00

John St wrote:
All of Doug's answers are correct, except for the last one. The US 7th and British 8th armies may only come out of the reserve box by invasion.
Thanks John - I couldn't spot that in the rules. Edit: but now I can, under 7.63.

Thread: Re: should I buy BtB or EE?

dellchili — 2008-05-29T22:56:13+00:00

I would recommend WWII:Barbarossa to Berlin by far ...solely
because of the playability on ACTS...

Nothing compares to your first few games...after a while the fun lessens
but only slightly

Thread: Winter 42 Rules--regarding Romanian Units

dellchili — 2008-05-29T22:21:26+00:00

I think that rule 15.2 is pretty clear that only the German units
in Russia are affected

But what happens if I have a german unit and a romanian unit
stacked in Rostov...being attacked from Russians in turn 4
Lets say 3 RU fronts attack RO4 and GE2 in Rostov..

I think the answer is 6L vs. 5L

Attackers lose one for the city....romanian gets that benefit
defenders lose one for the germans winter suffering...

Is this right?

Thread: Re: US 7th Army and British 8th Army in invasions

John St — 2008-05-29T17:16:52+00:00

All of Doug's answers are correct, except for the last one. The US 7th and British 8th armies may only come out of the reserve box by invasion.

Thread: Re: Cyberboard Vassal Wargameroom Opponents wanted thread 4 BtB

Tom Van Sant — 2008-05-27T16:58:45+00:00

Just finished a really great fast game of HIS and I want to play BTB next. Anyone out there want to teach me a lesson? I am good for a couple of card plays a day. I have no preference as to side. I like Cyberboard for card managemnet and ACTS for die rolls, but I am flexible. Shoot me an e-mail if interested.

Thread: Re: US 7th Army and British 8th Army in invasions

dougadamsau — 2008-05-26T06:50:03+00:00

I'm not that familiar with the game, but recently read the rules... take this with a grain of salt.

Jaels wrote:
Husky lets you invaded beaches N-S or U, with a reduced 7th and 8th Armies. Must the 8th Army be in the Reserve Box and the 7th Army still out of the game or in the Reserve Box for it to happen?
I believe the 7th can come from the reinforcements, but if it's on the map via an earlier invasion, it has to be in the reserve box for Husky. The 8th has to be on the map earlier, and moved to the reserve box (when Africa is cleared, I think).

Can the 8th Army invade if it wasn't brought into play yet (leading to the simultaneous existence of the Desert Army and the 8th Army)?
No, the 8th replaces the Desert Army.

Anvil-Dragoon is the other card that brings the 7th Army in the game, right? If it was brought through Husky, then the 7th Army must be in the Reserve box for Anvil-Dragoon to happen?
Yes.

Rule 7.63 mention that the 7th and 8th Armies may be involved in invasions after they have already entered the game. Does that mean only that they can participate in Husky and Anvil-Dragoon, or can they join other invasions as extra invaders?
Not if they aren't listed on the invasion card.

Finally, Avalanche and Shingle require the 7th Army not to be on the map. If the 7th Army already went through Husky and Anvil-Dragoon, to play those two invasions you need to put the Army in the Reserve Box. If you do so, is there any way to bring the 7th Army back on the map afterward?
If the US 7th is in the reserve box, and you want it on the map, you can SR it out onto a beachhead. You can't SR large units into the reserve box, but there is no restrictions on SR'ing them out.

Thread: Re: should I buy BtB or EE?

nhojput — 2008-05-23T03:39:47+00:00

i haven't play BTB but i'm very pleased with EE both face to face and solo.
there are air units to support land attacks and defense. strategic air and subs and anti-sub warfare is somewhat abstracted but works very well. fleet point markers are used for sea movement and sea battles and the mechanics of those also works very well. my friend also loves the game and it is well supported by the designers. i only get to play it solo between the games we finish and don't start back up again the same night. the size of the map space is about 34" by 44" and fits very well into two 24" by 36" poster frames although the 2 maps are thick enough to lay flat on their own. the game does very credible job of the feel of the whole western front with a good historical feel while not putting you in a straight jacket. as far as the time to play, it's a game you need to be able to leave set up as it takes several sessions to finish the campaign game.

Thread: Re: should I buy BtB or EE?

sherron — 2008-05-23T03:11:30+00:00

I have only played BtB and it seems to work ok. There is no naval action just naval invasion cards (ie D-Day). I feel your number 2 question is true mostly Eastfront. I think I would go with EE since with BtB starts with the war going on and you don't get the feel for the whole war. The air & sea roles are represented by certain cards in BtB. However BtB I would think would play quicker than EE. If you want the feel for the whole war go with EE.

Thread: should I buy BtB or EE?

Scurvodsky — 2008-05-23T02:51:59+00:00

I'm interested in both WWII:Barbarossa to Berlin and Europe Engulfed and can't decide which one to get. These are the criteria which are important to me:
1. It should be reasonably suitable for solitaire.
2. It should give me the feel of the whole European theatre (I get the sense from some that perhaps BtB is a glorifed Eastern Front game with the Western Front and Africa being mere sideshows; is that correct?)
3. I would like air and sea to play a role in the game. How are these elements represented in BtB and EE?
4. Which game is more playable in terms of time and complexity (and even table space required ....)?
5. Which game will have more replay value? Which game is less scripted?
6. Anything else that players of both games would like to point out which I wouldn't know since I haven't played the games.
Thanks!

Thread: US 7th Army and British 8th Army in invasions

Jaels — 2008-05-16T14:00:19+00:00

faqtotum and I finally got around to play this great game two weeks ago (ending in a quick defeat for the German as he wasn't aggressive enough and the numerous Russian reinforcements prove to be too much to break through).

We are planning to play again tonight, and rechecking the rules we still are unclear about how the US 7th and British 8th Army work with invasions. We know that the 8th is created by playing card 21 (British Reinforcement), replacing the Desert Army. The 7th Army enters play through Husky or Anvil-Dragoon.

- Husky lets you invaded beaches N-S or U, with a reduced 7th and 8th Armies. Must the 8th Army be in the Reserve Box and the 7th Army still out of the game or in the Reserve Box for it to happen? Can the 8th Army invade if it wasn't brought into play yet (leading to the simultaneous existence of the Desert Army and the 8th Army)?

- Anvil-Dragoon is the other card that brings the 7th Army in the game, right? If it was brought through Husky, then the 7th Army must be in the Reserve box for Anvil-Dragoon to happen?

Rule 7.63 mention that the 7th and 8th Armies may be involved in invasions after they have already entered the game. Does that mean only that they can participate in Husky and Anvil-Dragoon, or can they join other invasions as extra invaders?

Finally, Avalanche and Shingle require the 7th Army not to be on the map. If the 7th Army already went through Husky and Anvil-Dragoon, to play those two invasions you need to put the Army in the Reserve Box. If you do so, is there any way to bring the 7th Army back on the map afterward?

Thread: Re: Hitler declare war

m3tan — 2008-05-14T02:40:54+00:00

Interesting thread for me because I'm actually working on Event Cards for my own WWII design as I read this. I'm handling it more in the manner that is suggested here. The Axis side can play a card called "US Isolationism" that delays the entry into the war by one season (Spring 41). Otherwise the US automatically enters the war at the start of 1941. The Allied player can negate the effect of the US Isolationism card by first playing the "Japan Embargo" card. This creates a little interplay where the side that plays their event first dictates when the US enters the war.

As for the Hitler Takes Command card, I also feel it is a bit too draconian to force the Axis side to play that card to win a long game. Rather than having one card that unlocks so many other cards, it would seem to make more sense to have multiple cards with less impact that simulate the frustration of the General Staff dealing with Hitler. But I'm also not too keen on the Allied player holding Hitler cards because it seems too "gamey" to have the opposing player dictating your side's actions...

Thread: Re: Hitler declare war

richfam — 2008-05-14T02:07:45+00:00

Daniel Blumentritt wrote:
I've always found it odd that in the game, it's good for the Germans to have Hitler declare war on the USA, which was a dumb move in real life.
Yes, I agree. It would make more sense for the Allies to be able to play "Hitler Declares War" to penalize the Axis by bringing the Americans into the war at an early date. And the FDR card would then be an Axis card that, if played first, forces a late American entry into the war (i.e., without Hitler's DOW, the Americans focus on Japan first because of Pearl Harbor).

But even worse, for me, is the "Hitler Takes Command" card. The Axis player *has* to play this card to have any hope of "winning" the long game, but as an Axis player I find this incredibly frustrating. One can argue with some merit that this frustration mimics what the German General Staff must have felt... but I find it incredibly annoying that the game system forces me to make such a colossal mistake!

Seeing the "Hitler Takes Command" card presented as a must-play, highly beneficial card for the Axis came quite close making me give up on this game altogether. I think this too should have been an Allied card that could be played as a penalty on the Axis player, although that would have involved a major reworking of the mechanism for switching the Axis effort from an auto-victory to the long war.

But this game is just so much fun to play that I can ignore its shortcomings as a historical simulation.

Thread: Re: Discarding.....who goes first??

richfam — 2008-05-14T00:17:38+00:00

Well, my CSW post received a grand total of one response, on 30 Apr 2008:

Andy Allison wrote:
During the Draw Strategy Cards Phase, which player must discard first?
We had a similar situation with Shifting Sands just last weekend (we couldn't find a ruling for this game either). It was a similar scenario in that involved a card that could cancelled by another card (Italian Fleet and Med Fleet). Also both sides knew what the other had as both had played the equivalent of Enigma. We thought about writing down the card(s) we were going to discard and reveal these simultaneously but in the end the axis went first on the basis they did everything else first.
Without an official clarification of the designer's intent, players will simply have to decide for themselves how to handle this situation.

Thread: Re: Hitler declare war

Statalyzer — 2008-05-13T20:17:11+00:00

I've always found it odd that in the game, it's good for the Germans to have Hitler declare war on the USA, which was a dumb move in real life.

Thread: Re: Allied Initial Hand...Which turn do you get the mulligan??

Statalyzer — 2008-05-13T20:12:14+00:00

Even with an FAQ, several things in Paths of Glory are still ambiguous.

I though the same, but one of my expert wargamer friend told me that this solution it's too advantageous because Allied player has the opportunity to choose his initial 7 cards among 14 cards drawn. For example, if Allied didn't draw both cards #2 and #24 and also Industrial Evacuation, it's obvious he will choose to discard all the cards.

This is hardly a huge advantage - except for having #2 and #24, the Allied player might have an otherwise good hand, and then have to dump it entirely. It's not like after the first turn where he can discard whichever ones he wants and keep the rest.

Thread: Re: Panzer Guderian question....attacking Stalin

Statalyzer — 2008-05-13T20:06:40+00:00

Seems odd to protect Stalin by leaving him undefended.

Thread: Re: Vassal module

Nick — 2008-05-05T17:10:48+00:00

seanmac wrote:
Does anyone know when this might show up? It's been pending official GMT approval for years now.

I was wondering the same thing! Also because I have a Mac.

If you discover anything, please let me know.

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bleakgeek — 2008-01-31T12:43:33+00:00

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