Game: Tulipmania 1637

Thread: JKLM Interactive is down

DavidNorman99 — 2008-07-22T14:44:21+00:00

Hi All,

JKLM Interactive is currently down, due to a server failure. I'm currently sourcing a replacement computer, and hope to have it up by the middle of next week (30th or 31st July).

www.jklminteractive.co.uk will shortly be redirected to a different server, and will have news of progress on.

David.

Thread: Re: On-Line vs. Face-to-Face play

duchamp — 2008-04-30T08:53:18+00:00

Since "88" is a well-known code in the Neo-(and not so neo)Nazi-scene, a name like "88Victory" without any further information about the user (no country or whatever), makes me, sorry to say that, suspiciously.

From Wikipedia:
"88 (number)
As a Neo-Nazi symbol
Eighty-eight is used as code among white supremacists to identify each other. H is the 8th letter of the alphabet, so 88 is taken to stand for HH which in turn means "Heil Hitler". [2] For example, the number is used in the song "88 rock`n`roll band" by the neo-Nazi group Landser. ... This form of the number has inspired the naming of the groups Column 88, Unit 88 and White Legion 88."
Of course, there are much more possible meanings of this number, and it could refer to some sportsman with that number or whatever, and I also realize, that all combinations of numbers are seen often in usernames: there are a lot of "xy88ab" here, and a lot of "xy66yb" and so on, but being a bit sensitized, I still think, one should be aware of connotations linked to his/her name and don`t think, this name is a very good idea.

Sorry, Scott, for stuff like that going on.

And, to quote "88Victory" from one of his rare thread replies:
"If you can't debate rationally, don't enter the arena."
Well said.

Back to the OP:
For me, ANY game suffers a lot from the lack of the personal presence of humans! That`s, why I just tried it a couple of times, but didn`t like it at all. And that`s why this site is called "BoardGameGeek - Gaming unplugged since 2000".

The only games that work a bit, are 2P-abstracts like Go or Chess, where the pure analysis of the situation is much stronger in the foreground than in games with more interaction - such as multi-player games, etc.

Thread: Re: On-Line vs. Face-to-Face play

Rastak — 2008-04-19T16:25:41+00:00

88Victory wrote:
Sorry to say, your game really sucks. Online is absolutely terrible and highlight the major problems with it (which you seem to have already mentioned).

Your attempt to obfuscate the weaknesses about the game by saying things like, "Adding in witty banter, a little taunting, and some subtle (or not-so-subtle) attempts at manipulation and you have a very different game," really shows how weak the actual mechanics are.

For someone who has strong opinions about games and who does decent game reviews, I was certainly expecting something a lot better.

In all, this game is lacking and isn't fun. In addition, it didn't need to get made. I'm going to steer people away from this any chance I get.

Yes, a much better idea than letting people decide for themselves. Do you have any other ongoing crusades?

Thread: Re: On-Line vs. Face-to-Face play

clearclaw — 2008-04-19T16:13:59+00:00

88Victory wrote:
Fanboy much?

Oh yes, absolutely. You should see my game ratings and other forum posts.

Thread: Re: On-Line vs. Face-to-Face play

clearclaw — 2008-04-19T07:15:59+00:00

88Victory wrote:
Sorry to say...

Nice to see opinions backed up with facts.

Thread: Re: On-Line vs. Face-to-Face play

r3gamer — 2008-04-14T01:58:56+00:00

I just finished my first game online. Yes, I was shocked at how fast it ended. But on the other hand, it was enough to make me feel more comfortable with the 'flow' of the game....a better feel for the rules. Count me in as interested in trying out the actual F2F version in the near future.

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available on JKLM Interactive

DavidNorman99 — 2008-04-02T22:31:37+00:00

JKLM Interactive now supports Turn Based play as well as Real Time play. Sign up for a game, and when it's your turn, the server will e-mail you. Fire up the client and play your turn.

David.

Thread: Re: On-Line vs. Face-to-Face play

zefquaavius — 2008-03-26T16:03:39+00:00

Thanks for that disclaimer. I'll still have to give it a go. I'm sure Moderne Zeiten would suffer from the same effect, were it implemented online.

Thread: On-Line vs. Face-to-Face play

snicholson — 2008-03-21T20:30:54+00:00

I've played some online games of this, and was really surprised at how it felt. The game has a very different feel when you play it face-to-face. Here were some of the things I've noticed:

1 - Pace of game. It flies by online in about 10-15 minutes. F2F, it's more of a 30-45 minute game. Because of the speed of the game, I felt a pressure to just go with my gut and not think through what might happen. There are a lot of implications to some of your choices, and not thinking through what's going on made it feel pretty chaotic. I much prefer the more deliberate pace where you can really consider your choices at each decision point. This pace could occur on an online game, but probably won't (from my similar experiences at BSW with other games). I felt under pressure to "just push the buttons" for some reason, much more so than the pressure to "select a card" in the face-to-face game.

2 - Different interactions. In the face-to-face game, there's a lot of social interaction that can go on. The game has a lot of open information and just a little hidden information (like Texas Hold'em), so part of the game is reading the other players and bluffing. This level of social interaction doesn't occur in the online game, as people are moving through the game quickly. Again, it could happen through chat to some level, but it's a very different game when you see the people around the table. Adding in witty banter, a little taunting, and some subtle (or not-so-subtle) attempts at manipulation and you have a very different game.

I've said to others that the game is really about the players around the table more than the chart. Paying attention to the holdings, actions, and tells of the other players is important in doing well. You need to ally with people for parts of the game, but in the end, one of you will have to make the move to cause a crash.

So, while the online game will certainly help you learn the game and understand the ruleset, know that it is a very different feel than the in-person game, where you can think more about your actions and interact with the other players more directly.

All of that said, JKLM did a good job in making the online version, and it's very easy to interact with the game.. almost too easy!

Thread: Re: Speculate through proxy - why?

r3gamer — 2008-03-21T17:14:10+00:00

I think I saw you there. I watched a 4 player game last night. (I'm 'robram' on JKLM). I'm usually on late at night.

Thread: Re: Speculate through proxy - why?

jaaronson — 2008-03-21T16:34:35+00:00

I was online playing last night and will also be on tonight, playing this and Phoenicia; around 8-12 Eastern. We had a 3 and 4 player game last night.

Thread: Re: Speculate through proxy - why?

r3gamer — 2008-03-21T02:28:18+00:00

Excellent read Scott. It helps clear up a few things in my head about the game.

Heard your plug on the OBG podcast. Now I have the online game, and have read the rules.

I'm always intrigued by games that have simple rules, yet are deep enough to make it almost impossible to get a good sense as to how the game actually plays (just based on the rules). It simply makes me more interested to try out the game. Tulipmania is a perfect example.

Now, on to find players online....

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available for pre-order

DavidNorman99 — 2008-03-20T12:41:54+00:00

armed-medic wrote:
It's probably me but I went the the UK company pre-order page and was a little confused by the ordering process. I ended up just backing out slowly.

Hmm, it's not meant to be difficult! But of course, we know what we're trying to tell you to do...

Tell me where you got to, and I'll try and (a) talk you through it from there, and (b) improve the instructions...

David.

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available for pre-order

armed-medic — 2008-03-20T05:33:19+00:00

It's probably me but I went the the UK company pre-order page and was a little confused by the ordering process. I ended up just backing out slowly.

Thread: Re: Speculate through proxy - why?

wmshub — 2008-03-18T23:35:22+00:00

Thanks Scott! That makes sense, it does seem reasonable that if you have 3 or 4 buyers of one color, losing two and eliminating one from everybody else could be a good move.

Have to wait until Fall to know for sure, though!

Thread: Re: Speculate through proxy - why?

snicholson — 2008-03-18T22:51:10+00:00

wmshub wrote:

Now, speculating through proxy pushes the price of a tulip up without you shelling you your money. But it costs you two buyers! So you're driving up a tulip price, making it crash sooner, but at the same time you're giving away a huge amount of your valuable "save me from the crash" cards for that same tulip color!

The only reason I can see for this is if you don't own the tulips, but you have the buyers, and you want the tulips to crash now to harm opponents. But that seems a pretty unlikely circumstance - or is it? Having not played the game, I can't say for sure, but it seems pretty unlikely.

What am I missing here?

The most common use of that is to make the market crash when it's best for you; it can be really hard to push it to the highest levels with your own cash early on. The speculate prices are pretty high on that top level, but if you don't speculate it up to the top, and the price goes up normally, then nobody discards buyers. If you have fewer buyers than other players, this is what you want to happen.

It's best used if you can get 3 or more of the same color, which is not usually hard to do if you get 2 of a match off the start. Then, you drain one from everyone else when they aren't ready for it. If you end up with 4 or more buyers of one color, those last few aren't going to pay off much at all, and you end up better off forcing everyone else to take a hit as well.

The winner of the game is usually determined by who can get themselves in the right position for the big final sales, and that option lets you control the timing of that event.

Rarely would it be good to play if you only have 2 buyers of a color.
It could be used to end the game if you think you are in good shape to win by pushing the penultimate color to the top (causing the last one to crash, perhaps at a very low level).

Mainly, it's there to help the "focus on one color" player and to make up for the fact that the value of buyers decreases sharply as you get multiples. Usually, someone ends up with strong holdings in one color (which means other players won't have many cards in a color); a speculate by proxy that takes out the lone buyer in someone's hand (or multiple player's hands) can really pay off for someone with strong one-color holdings. If you knock out someone's only buyer card in a color and you have 2 remaining, that really reduces the money they can get for their holdings compared to what you will get.

It's dangerous if someone else is also strong in the color, as they will benefit from that move more than you will.

Forcing an aggressive crash at a low price point also can help if you aren't in the color, as it puts some money in the player's hands, which they are then more likely to help you speculate a color that have many cards for up to the top. If you can force a crash in the 2000 row, that gives others some cash who then help you get a big payout in the 6000 row, then it's worth it.

Later in the game, there's enough cash for people to cause the crashes, so it doesn't come out. It's more of an early game choice to get money flowing into the game. Then you just have to figure out how to get the money flowing to you.

Part of this game is avoiding the emotional greed-fear-greed that a bubble market causes and making sane choices; the by-proxy plays are very tempting to play with, but come with a steep cost, so they are best used when part of a plan.

At least that's my theory.

Thread: Speculate through proxy - why?

wmshub — 2008-03-18T22:04:13+00:00

So I'm probably getting ahead of myself since the publication is 6+ months away, but I read through the rules, and I think I must be misunderstanding something because I can't see why you would ever want to speculate through proxy.

Here's my reasoning: You get only 6 buyers through the whole game (3 at the start, 3 over the first three turns). These buyers are valuable, because when the tulip prices crash, each buyer lets you sell your tulips earlier than you would be able to otherwise - and when prices crash, they crash hard, so selling even a little bit earlier can mean a signficant amount of money! So you only want to lose buyers if you don't have tulips in the colors those buyers want.

Now, speculating through proxy pushes the price of a tulip up without you shelling you your money. But it costs you two buyers! So you're driving up a tulip price, making it crash sooner, but at the same time you're giving away a huge amount of your valuable "save me from the crash" cards for that same tulip color!

The only reason I can see for this is if you don't own the tulips, but you have the buyers, and you want the tulips to crash now to harm opponents. But that seems a pretty unlikely circumstance - or is it? Having not played the game, I can't say for sure, but it seems pretty unlikely.

What am I missing here?

Thread: Re: Rules now available

ekted — 2008-03-06T06:47:58+00:00

An RSS reader, like Google Reader or Bloglines.

Thread: Re: Rules now available

clearclaw — 2008-03-06T06:24:59+00:00

ekted wrote:
If you subscribed to this page...

How would one subscribe to that page?

Thread: Re: Rules now available

ekted — 2008-03-06T06:13:45+00:00

If you subscribed to this page, you would already know:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Game_Rules

Thread: Rules now available

DavidNorman99 — 2008-03-05T23:32:48+00:00

The rules are now available as a PDF in the files section for this game.

These are (hopefully) the finished rules, ready to go to the printers. However, there is time to fix any problems, so if you spot anything that is unclear, ambiguous, or just plain wrong, please post and let me know, so we can get it fixed before it goes to print.

Thanks,

David.

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available for pre-order

joelbear — 2008-03-05T01:45:10+00:00

hi scott, i definitely want a signed copy. the first game by a bear. yay.

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available on JKLM Interactive

DavidNorman99 — 2008-03-02T18:00:22+00:00

If anybody has tried to register on JKLM Interactive in the last day or so, and been unable to get it to accept their registration, please try again - I've just found and fixed the problem I created with the latest update!

Sorry for the inconvenience,

David.

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available for pre-order

snicholson — 2008-03-02T13:08:02+00:00

Stony wrote:
Will Scott be present, so I can have my copy signed?

It's doubtful I'll be heading to Essen this year. Having two houses (and two New York property taxes) since May has done some pretty serious financial damage.

But I'm certainly available in Syracuse, NY!

Scott

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available for pre-order

Stony — 2008-02-29T20:06:32+00:00

Will Scott be present, so I can have my copy signed?

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available for pre-order

DavidNorman99 — 2008-02-28T17:19:38+00:00

manhattandoctor wrote:
When is it getting released?

The current plan is to release it at Essen in October.

David.

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available for pre-order

manhattandoctor — 2008-02-28T17:13:39+00:00

When is it getting released?

Thread: Tulipmania 1637 now available for pre-order

DavidNorman99 — 2008-02-28T16:25:23+00:00

Tulipmania 1637 is now available for pre-order. To do so, go to the JKLM Games site (http://www.jklmgames.co.uk), create an account (or login if you have one) - this is mainly so we know where to send it to! And then go to the Tulipmania 1637 page and click the PayPal button for the currency of your choice.

The RRP for Tulipmania 1637 is GBP 17.00. Pre-order it before production starts, and you get 20% off - that's just GBP 13.60. Furthermore, the first 10% of people to take advantage of this will get a GBP 3.00 voucher towards a future JKLM purchase. 11%-25% will get a GBP 2.00 voucher, and 26%-50% will get a GBP 1.00 voucher. See the FAQ on the JKLM games website for full details of the pre-order programme.

GBP 1.00 is about US$ 2.00 or Euro 1.33, but this may vary due to currency fluctuations.

David.

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available on JKLM Interactive

DavidNorman99 — 2008-02-27T19:32:04+00:00

tryytty wrote:
I tried to open client. It asked if I want to update now. I answered yes and system wrote next lines and then exit. Tried again and exactly same. I have Vista.

Server : You can now click the number of players to see who's connected.
Download of new version in progress
Received 1/2 files for Client Application engine

I have been having some problems with the upgrade process on Vista. It seems to lock the directory when you install stuff, so the upgrade routine can't update the files.

If all else fails, uninstall it and then download the latest version from the website and reinstall.

David.

Thread: Re: Tulipmania 1637 now available on JKLM Interactive

tryytty — 2008-02-27T18:53:36+00:00

I tried to open client. It asked if I want to update now. I answered yes and system wrote next lines and then exit. Tried again and exactly same. I have Vista.

Server : You can now click the number of players to see who's connected.
Download of new version in progress
Received 1/2 files for Client Application engine

Thread: Tulipmania 1637 now available on JKLM Interactive

DavidNorman99 — 2008-02-27T15:47:34+00:00

Tulipmania is now available on JKLM Interactive. To play, go to www.jklminteractive.co.uk, download and install the client and away you go...

A summary of the rules is also available on the JKLM Interactive website.

If you connect to the server and find that there is nobody there, just leave it open (and non-minimised), and other players will be along soon - and the client will jump into view when there is some activity.

David.

Image

DavidNorman99 — 2008-02-18T18:52:31+00:00

Revised Box Front