Game: Toledo

Thread: Re: Movement "ability" clarification

ColtsFan76 — 2008-11-26T21:44:14+00:00

In your example, the first number can be a 1 and then all subsquent are 6. Or you can play one (or mulitple) 1, then a 6, then revert back to 1 for all subsequent moves.

Thread: Movement "ability" clarification

Websteria — 2008-11-26T21:00:34+00:00

The rules don't state if the card that you play when using your "movement ability" skill is used as the same value as the previous card you had played or as it's own value.

My assumption is, I play a 1 and move to a space, I then use my movement ability and play a 6. I can move 1 piece 6 spaces. Then I can only use 1's the rest of the turn, or I can use it on my first card and make the second cards the "static" number of moves for that turn.

Is this correct?

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RacingHippo — 2008-10-30T23:16:22+00:00

Being played in the only available space at Essen 08

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Toynan — 2008-09-30T22:15:23+00:00

back of the cards

Thread: [Video Review] Toledo

TomVasel — 2008-09-16T21:46:26+00:00

Quick Summary: Putting swords together makes for a good theme; I found the game a bit boring - but new players really enjoyed it.

Youtube Video

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Toynan — 2008-09-14T15:20:29+00:00

Movement cards with uncolored Duels

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Toynan — 2008-09-14T15:19:34+00:00

Movement cards with brown Duels

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Toynan — 2008-09-14T15:19:11+00:00

Mouvement cards with orange Duels

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Toynan — 2008-09-14T14:59:58+00:00

Mouvement cards with purple Duels

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Toynan — 2008-09-14T14:15:59+00:00

The 23 steel counters and gems

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Toynan — 2008-09-14T14:14:59+00:00

All the skill tiles

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Toynan — 2008-09-14T14:14:48+00:00

Back of all business tiles

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Toynan — 2008-09-14T14:08:49+00:00

Front of the box (Mayfair edition)

Thread: Any Solo Possibilities?

matthiske — 2008-09-01T19:41:49+00:00

Want to hear from the solo player masterminds if there is Solo possibilities here?

Thread: Re: Race for the Buildings

luchau — 2008-08-21T11:09:22+00:00

We've played five 4-player games, and status is, that we allways play all our buildings first, before doing anything else. And to boot, we allways play only 2-circle buildings in the 1-street.

Is there any good reason to play a one-circle building instead of a two-circle building (if you've got one)?

So my answer for Doobermite is: No, I don't see getting behind on shops can earn you anything - but I'm interested to know if anyone disagrees.

I looked here today to find some strategic comments, because it seems that there could be other ways to play - going for three quick iron-swords and end the game for example.
But I don't see how it's possible to move that far so quickly, with only five cards in the starting hand. All it takes is for someone to complete one decent gem-sword, and then you've lost.

Are the possible strategies different in 2 or 3 player games?

Thread: Re: Toledo review

mikoyan — 2008-07-17T14:23:49+00:00

I thought it was a pretty fun game, not sure I'd want to play more than a few times though doesn't seem like there is enough substance there. The duelling is fun though, gives a little bit of take that to the game.

Thread: Re: Toledo review

SusanRoz — 2008-07-17T13:44:43+00:00

Oops! Fixed it. Thanks!

Thread: Re: Toledo review

richtoosoon — 2008-07-17T13:34:27+00:00

The map depicts the city of Toledo with a linear trail of business locations starting in the Cathedral and winding its way up to the Alcatraz ...

Or the Alcazar, as you stated elsewhere. Unless we're talking about that old Burt Lancaster movie, "The Swordsman of Alcatraz".

Nice review, by the way.

Thread: Toledo review

SusanRoz — 2008-07-17T05:07:48+00:00

Toledo is a game by Martin Wallace and published by Mayfair Games that has players as Spaniards in the city of Toledo, gathering the necessary resources to craft fine swords to present to Emperor of the Spanish Empire.

Components

Wooden pawns, 5 in each of the 4 player colors
32 business tiles
90 cards
16 skill tiles
19 sword tiles
23 steel counters
20 colorful plastic gems
Game board
Rules - four pages in color illustrated with examples. They are clear and easy to understand.

The components are all of good quality with thick tiles and board, although the cards could have been a little sturdier. My biggest gripe is that I found the artwork on the board to be a little busy for my tastes.

Game play

Players start with their five pawns in the Cathedral on the board, their sets of business tiles off to the side and a starting hand of five movement cards. All other components are place in designated locations on the board.

The map depicts the city of Toledo with a linear trail of business locations starting in the Cathedral and winding its way up to the Alcazar in the top right corner. The businesses include a steel merchant, a gem merchant, a swordsmith, and a fencing master. Each player starts the game with two of each of theses businesses to place, each with either one or two spots for a pawn. In addition to these types, there are a few fixed on the board. These include an artist selling paintings worth victory points and a tavern where you can discard a card to draw three new ones.

The game is a sort of race and resource collection game. Players are trying to get gems and steel from those merchants and then take them to a swordsmith to craft a sword to present to the Emperor. When he does this, the player discards the resources and claims the appropriate sword tile. The swords differ in value depending on how many resources are necessary to make them and there are a limited number to make. There are only a very few of the higher valued swords and you feel under pressure to claim them first. To present a sword, the player must move a pawn into Alcazar.

On a player’s turn, he chooses one of the following actions:

- Draw two movement cards
- Place one of his businesses on the board
- Play cards to move one or more pawns
- Send one of his pawns back to the Cathedral.

Planning out a movement turn is my favorite part of the game. To move, you play a numbered movement card and move a pawn that many spaces. You can play multiple cards of the same number to keep moving the same pawn or move another. Anytime a pawn lands on a business it can transact there as long as there is an open spot. Otherwise, you may play another card to keep moving or challenge the occupying pawn to a duel. (Duels are explained below). So, if you manage to collect cards of the same number, you might be able to pull off a killer move in which you do multiple transactions.

In most of my games, placing businesses dominated the early turns until all the spaces were filled. This is because doing transactions at your own business is free. It costs a movement card to use another player’s business. The further the business is along the path, the higher the cost to do business there, still paid with a single movement card but with a higher number on it. There are not enough spaces for everyone’s businesses so you want to put out as many of yours as you can. It can also be a good strategy to place them the same distance apart so you can hit a string of your own businesses on a single turn with the right cards

If you land on a business blocked by a player, you can challenge him to a duel. To duel, players randomly flip movement cards from the deck. Besides a number, movement cards also depict two swordsman dueling - a defender and an attacker, with one being highlighted as the winner of the duel. These also match by color, one of three different training tiles that you can buy from a fencing master. To win the duel, you must win two out of three matches either by having the training tile depicted or, if neither player has the training tile, by being the winner shown – attacker or defender. The loser has to place his pawn back in the Cathedral. Sometimes losing is actually a good thing if you need to re-visit some of the early businesses.

Challenging a player to a duel is probably my least favorite part of the game. I’m sure that there is a good reason for this mechanism. Perhaps it is to prevent somebody from blocking a key business for too long. However, it felt a little tacked-on to me and too lucky. Obviously, you can mitigate the luck by getting training, but with the pressure on to get resources to claim swords, I usually didn’t want to bother. In fact, in most of my games, there were only a few fencing master businesses placed on the board. However, there is one other training tile you can get from the fencing master and it seems to be much more valuable. This is a tile that allows you break the movement rule and play a card that is a different number from the ones you are playing that turn. The downside is that it is worth a minus two points if you have it at the end of the game. There is a way to get rid of it. You can only hold three different training tiles at a time so it you collect the other three you can discard the movement one.

Once a player has three pawns in Alcazar, each other player gets one more turn and the game is over. Points are totaled and the player with the most is the winner. Swords that have been presented earn their full value and swords that are still en route earn half their value. Gems earn one point for every two and paintings earn victory points as shown on the card.

Conclusion:

This is not your typical Martin Wallace game. If you go into your first game of Toledo expecting a heavy game of conflict and/or tight economics, you will be sorely disappointed. It actually feels to me like some of the older, German family games that were often some sort of race game with a mix of luck, tactics and a little bit of “take that.” While I wouldn’t call it a spectacular game, it is a fairly solid design and one that would be good to pull out with casual gamers and family.

Thread: My thoughts on Toledo

pezpimp — 2008-07-06T15:19:55+00:00

Toledo (2008)
Designer: Martin Wallace
Publisher: Mayfair Games
Players: 2-4
Time: 60-90 minutes

Intro

A Martin Wallace game, but with only four pages of instructions, how rare!

Gameplay

The goal of Toledo is to collect gems and metal in order to make swords that are to be presented to the Emperor. To do this, you have 5 player pieces that you move on the board, visiting businesses placed by you and your opponents as you make your way to the Emperor's castle (Alcazar) at the top of the road.

To move, you must play the cards that are in your hand. The cards are used not only to move, but used also as currency to pay to use other peoples businesses (using your own business is always free). To move, you simply play a card and move any one of your pieces that amount. You must always land on a business and if you chose to stop there, there must be an open space or you must duel someone for that space. You may continue moving as often as you like, as long as you keep playing the same value of card. You may move as many pieces as you like and may also trade with each business as you move. To use the action provided by the business you simply pay the player the required amount and take the action. The amount to pay depends on where it is on the road. In the first row, it costs 1 or more (one movement card of 1 or more), in the second row it cost 3 or more and in the third row it costs 5 or more. The money is paid to the owner of the business, with the exception of the three businesses already on the board, in this case, it is simply discarded.

On your turn you must perform one the the following actions:

- Take 2 movement cards from the top of the deck
- Place a business tile
- Move a piece(s) and trade
- Return one piece to the cathedral (return a piece to the start of the road)

When playing a business you can place it anywhere you want, as long as it is in an empty space. Businesses can never be moved or replaced. Also, you have 4 types of businesses, each with a single space and double space (allows two people to stop there at the same time without having to duel). The businesses you own have the following actions when traded with:

- Steel Merchant: Take one piece of steel
- Gem merchant: take one gem
- Swordsmith: Trade in steel and gems for a sword
- Fencing Master: take a skill

There are also two businesses that are on the board and payment goes to the bank when used:

Tavern: Take three movement cards (still costs one to use the action)
Artist: Take the top painting (worth 3, 2, 2, 1, 1 and 1 point, in that order)

The amount of steel and gems needed for a sword varies, but the more steel and gems it uses, the more points it is worth. A sword must then be presented to the Emperor to receive its full point value, otherwise it is worth only half.

When taking a skill, there are four different skills: a movement skills (worth -2 points if still in hand at the end of the game) and three dueling skills. The movement skill allows you to play one movement card each turn that does not match the others, while the dueling skills give you an advantage when dueling.

When dueling another player, you turn over the first movement card in the draw deck. The winner of the duel is the one who has the indicated skill color on the card. Should no one have it or if both players have that skill, the winner is the person indicated on the card. The card will always show either the attacker or defender as the winner. The more skills you have, the better your chance of winning. The individual who wins two rounds wins the battle and stays on the card, the loser returns to the starting point (the Cathedral).

To note is that you can trade a skill if you already have three, since the limit for each player is three skills, so you can get rid of the movement skill and hence avoid the -2 points if you can get rid of it before the end of the game.

Once a player lands on one of the Alcazar points at the end of the road, that piece may present a sword to the Emperor and it will be worth the full amount of points. If the player has no swords to present, they still enter the castle and that piece can no longer be moved. Once a player has three pieces in the castle, each player gets one more turn and then the game ends.

Swords presented to the Emperor are worth their indicated value, swords not presented are worth half (rounded down), every 2 gems in hand are worth 1 point and the movement skill is worth -2 if still in hand.

Strategy/Comments

This is in no way a bad game, but it also does not run to the top of the play ladder. There are several things that will help you gain the lead in your race and I must say that I do like the end game turn in which once someone triggers the end, the other players each get a turn. This takes away the factor that you can win by one or two points just by triggering the ending requirement and makes it so that you must actually out play the others to win.

In addition, the fact that the swords you have when the game ends that are not brought to the Emperor are still worth some points, as well as the gems. This means that each play is important and not simply that the lucky player or fastest player will have a huge advantage.

As the game starts, there is a lot of card collecting and placing of buildings. Of course, you must either chose to focus on one of the two or have a little of each. With the right cards, you can always avoid other players businesses and jump between yours and the ones already on the board that only pay the bank. When placing your businesses you can set them up so that they are the same number of spaces apart. For example, if you have a lot of 3 cards, you can place your building on every three. This has two results: you can jump from one of your businesses to another and get a lot of free stuff, but also, others can do the same to avoid them. Lining them up with the Tavern is also a great way to get resources and extra cards all in one turn and since you can use the cards you get right away, it really adds up.

Another thing that I both like and do not like, it that there is only one of each of the swords worth 15 and 12. The good thing is that it does make the beginning important, since the first player to get there will have the largest reward, however, it also means that the start of the game is somewhat like a race. The thing that stops it form being a race is that the businesses are placed by the players and to get what you need fast, you will have to use other peoples businesses, costing you money and also helping them along.

It must be noticed that you can get the smaller value swords much faster and cause the game to end before the other player gets the really high value swords and brings them to the Emperor. In general, each item is worth around 2 points, with the larger swords being worth a little less. So it is more a battle of who can get them there faster then really who gets the sword with the largest value first (which is good).

The rules also state that the pieces collected (skills, swords, metals and gems) must be placed in front of you, so the game is played with open pieces except for the movement card. This lets you decide who to help out (when paying to use another players business, you may avoid the player who is clearly in the lead) and keeps the game close and balanced.

Obtaining skills is also a decision that must be made, but generally further along in the game (for the dueling skills), but may also be a good choice early on for those who have played before. Since this can help you push others out of your way, I found that if you do not have any, you are often blocked and the dueling skills can not only unblock you, but move the opponents back to the start. This would help since even if you are losing in the race for the best sword, you may get more swords in. With five pieces however, this is a very risky option, since it would be hard to knock back one player, let alone two or three. The movement skill is however a must, since if your opponent has it for the whole game and you do not, you are at a large disadvantage. I find that the -2 points does not represent its worth and maybe it should be harder to get or more costly, but it seems to be a must since it takes the luck of drawing the right cards less of a variant.

Finally, blocking an opponent is also a good move, especially if you have a lot of dueling skills, but this is also risky since the movement cards are numbered 1 to 6, it is very hard to properly block. The best way to do it is to focus on the business you want to block, especially since there is not enough space for all the businesses in a three or four player game, there may be a certain business that is rare and blocking it would slow everyone else down.

The thing I did not like about the game is more of the feel. Although there is clearly strategic points and the game is nice with quality pieces, it just feels like you are simply going through the motions, especially on the first play. After a few plays, you see the game better and know where to place your businesses. Also, sending a piece back to the start is not a bad idea. Since only 3 must make it to the end, using the early businesses over and over is an easy way to get resources and then use your other men to bring the complete swords to the Emperor. This also makes it so that the low card values are just as valuable as the high ones. They let you go from one business to the other quickly and then you can use the large movement cards to jump ahead and present a sword.

Overall, the game is good, but not great. It seems to be missing something, like more interaction between the players. The only real interaction is the paying to other players to use their businesses and the dueling / blocking aspect. It does depend however on how the players are playing, since you can play a mind your own business type of game or a fight it out game. The problem is that if two people are fighting it out, it leaves it open for the third player to get ahead, so the decisions are often held till later in the game. You do not want to spend all your time collecting skills, when everyone else is racing to get to the top and end the game. The one skill that is very worthwhile however is the movement skill, especially if gotten early. It is possible to get rid of it before the end of the game, yet it would be very time consuming, so this should not be your goal. The added advantage should be enough to move you to the top if you are the only one who has it and play it right.

Conclusion

The game has some interesting points, but seems to be missing something and the play is not that much fun. It is worth a try and cannot be judged on just one play, since it can seem like a race at first but then when you figure out how to place your businesses to best take advantage of your cards and how the most expensive swords should not always be chased, the game does improve.

Rating: (6.5 / 10)

Thread: Re: Sword Fighting from Martin Wallace

AlexYeager — 2008-06-17T21:46:27+00:00

Nope, Seth (Skokie IL for the offices and warehouse). I work out of my home up in Ypsilanti MI ("Ann Arbor on a budget" as we like to call it), but grew up in Toledo and moved back for about 5 years until moving up here last year.

I still am down there frequently, between gaming and my announcing gig with the UT Marching Band (GO ROCKETS!). I always liked Toledo, if for no other reason than it was a pleasant, inexpensive place to live that was centrally located to so many other, cooler places (Detroit/Windsor, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton/Cincinnati, Chicago).... I love the art museum, had symphony tickets back in the day, and have my favorite coffeeshops, record store and book store haunts. No bad-mouthing Toledo by me!

Alex Yeager
Mayfair Games

Thread: Re: Sword Fighting from Martin Wallace

sedjtroll — 2008-06-17T21:37:32+00:00

AlexYeager wrote:
As a Toledo Ohio resident for over 3 decades
While I haven't lived in Toledo, Ohio since almost 30 years ago, I was born there...

I'd be more proud of that if they did make swords...

Is Mayfair based in Toledo?

Thread: Re: Race for the Buildings

mevans444 — 2008-06-17T21:18:41+00:00

We just played two 4-pl games this past Monday at the Comic Warehouse gameclub.
The first game was very much a learning session, so we were all tentatively placing our buildings over several rounds.
My friend Dave jumped ahead of us by managing to place 3 of his buildings on the first 3 spaces of the 5 street, which helped him get a quick win.

So, of course, in the second game, after the first round or so, we all started placing our buildings until the board was completely filled up.
I remember thinking "Well, at least that's out of the way. So now we can concentrate on the other aspects of the game."

I'll be interested to see how our gameplay evolves as we play some further games of this title.

Thread: Re: Sword Fighting from Martin Wallace

Hendal — 2008-06-17T17:57:16+00:00

Hey ALex,
I am a Canton boy myself, I know about Toledo Glass, went to Kent State for a Glass Arts Degree, was not aware of the hotdogs, thanks for the links.

I will end up getting this game just for the name alone I think, plus I like the theme and it spounds like a fun game.

I had not seen the Illuminati Microbadge, I may just get that one.

Thread: Re: Sword Fighting from Martin Wallace

AlexYeager — 2008-06-17T17:33:04+00:00

As a Toledo Ohio resident for over 3 decades, I can tell you that sword-making doesn't work so well when applied to the Glass City. Toledo Scales (http://us.mt.com/mt/ed/history/history.jsp), check; Toledo glass (http://www.libbey.com/), check; Toledo hot dogs (http://www.tonypackos.com/index.php), check; Toledo swords...not so much.

The two Toledos are sister cities, and reputed to be the first official designation of its kind:
http://www.laprensa1.com/Stories/2005/Sept%2014,%202005/A%20...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo%2C_Ohio

The game's good, too!

Alex Yeager
Mayfair Games

Thread: Duels reminder

skeletodoc — 2008-06-17T14:04:54+00:00

We played several two and three player games and forgot the duel rule that you have to win 2 out of 3 cards drawn NOT just the first card drawn. Oh well, back to the drawing, I mean, game board.

Thread: Re: Race for the Buildings

crobledo — 2008-06-17T13:01:47+00:00

We found out we usually play 2-3 buildings each before the first move. Early taverns and materials are very nice.

Thread: Re: Race for the Buildings

SteveK2 — 2008-06-17T11:10:27+00:00

Buildings don't actually do anything for you directly. All they do is allow anyone to stop on a space, allow the owner to earn a card when someone else uses the building and allow you to use your own buildings for free.

Essentially, then, buildings are an investment for the future, but how much investment is necessary - especially when the game could end quite quickly?

There's a lot to be said for leaving road construction to everyone else while you accumulate a fistful of cards, some of which can be used to pay the tolls to use everyone else's tiles.

Thread: Race for the Buildings

dbmite — 2008-06-17T10:59:22+00:00

I haven't played the game with a group yet, but it seems that there would be a race to build as many buildings as possible in the beginning of the game, so that all of the spaces are filled before players start moving.

For those that have played, do you find that most all of the buildings get built in the first few turns, especially with 4 players? Is it ever worth it to get behind on buildings?

Thread: Re: Movement

Great Dane — 2008-06-17T10:07:50+00:00

Tygo wrote:
This may seem obvious but after going through the rules...twice, this was not covered.

Of course it is covered:

- you place Business tiles on empty SPACES.
- you play a money card and move the exact number of SPACES.

Further clarified by these rules:
- Although the figure can be moved over empty spaces without businesses, the movement must end on a business tile or on one of the taverns.

- if there are no empty circles on a Business tile you must either move on, or fight a duel.

Thread: Re: Movement

Ambrose — 2008-06-17T04:32:15+00:00

Three.

Thread: Movement

Tygo — 2008-06-17T04:27:58+00:00

This may seem obvious but after going through the rules...twice, this was not covered.

When moving the rules are pretty ambiguous over whether or not "spaces" when you move are the business tiles, or the circles on them.

IE if you move across 3 business tiles with 2 circle-business-spots on each one, is that 3 movement points or six?

Thread: Re: Sword Fighting from Martin Wallace

Hendal — 2008-06-17T02:48:17+00:00

Holy Toledo - why isn´t this about Toledo Ohio .

Sounds like a fun game. How long did the game take?

Game On'

Thread: Sword Fighting from Martin Wallace

wkusau — 2008-06-16T23:54:10+00:00

TOLEDO by Martin Wallace

DESCRIPTION
Toledo is a new 4 player game from Kosmos and just published in English by Mayfair. Design credit goes to Martin Wallace. This is not a typical Martin Wallace game. It is a light eurogame. In the game, you try to collect gems and steel to be turned into wonderful swords and then take these swords to the fortress of Alcazar in the city of Toledo. Each player has 5 workers that must travel along a path through Spain to collect the materials and take them to the sword smith. Once the sword is made, one of the workers must continue on to Alcazar and deliver the sword.

COMPONENTS
Components include a rule book, a colorful mounted board, 5 meeples of each color, a deck of cards (used for movement and cash), 5 art cards, 8 business tiles of each color, 2 tavern tiles, 1 El Greco tile, a number of sword tiles (4 vp to 15 vp), some movement tiles, and some sword master tiles.

SETUP
Each player begins the game with 5 helpers at the cathedral (start space), 6 cards in their hand, and their 8 business tiles off the board. The 2 taverns and 1 El Greco tile are placed on the designated spots on the board. The Art cards are placed with the highest victory point (3) painting on top then 2, 1, 1, and 1. There is a place for the cards, discards, sword tiles, sword master tiles, movement tiles, gems, and steel ingots on the board. A first player is chosen.

GAMEPLAY
Each turn a player may take 1 of 4 options. Play continue clockwise after the first player.

1.Draw 2 cards from the deck. That's it.
2.Move one or more helpers. Play a card. The number on the card is the number of movement points you must use to move one helper. That helper can stop on a business tile. If the business is open (has a spot open for a helper), you must pay one card to the owner (free if you own the tile) and immediately gain the item (gem, steel, sword master tile, sword). The art business sells the top art card and the tavern sells 3 cards from the top of the deck. You pay a card to the discard pile for the tavern and art dealer. If you want to play another identical number card, you can move another helper or the same one again. If there is not an open spot on the business, you can play another identical card and continue moving or challenge one of the players on the tile to a duel. You cannot challenge yourself. It is a best 2 out of 3 duel. There are pictures on the bottom of the cards showing a sword fight. The attacker or the defender is highlighted. As cards are turned over this identifies who wins that round. The sword master tiles can adjust some battles. The loser goes back to the Cathedral. The current player can continue their turn if they want to.
3.Place a business. Put one of your businesses on any open spot on the board. You may place a business with 2 or 1 opening.
4.Return a helper to the cathedral (start spot). This is even stated in the rules as a rare choice. The reason you might want to go back is that you have the right cards to pick up a lot of stuff on one turn, if you are at the start.

END GAME
The game ends when one player has 3 helpers in Alcazar. Each of the other players gets one more turn. Swords that reach Alcazar are worth their printed value. Other swords are half value and gems not used are exchanged at 2 gems = 1 VP.

CONCLUSION
Toledo is a quick game. The card movement system and the cards as cash keeps the game close. A player may use several cards one turn but will need to refresh their hand to do this again. There is no hand limit so hording a few cards may be a good idea. My first game ended 21, 20, 19, 14. I moved my 3rd helper to the fortress to end the game with 19 points so I got beat by 2 others. One turn made the difference. This is a good game with an interesting theme. Families could play this. There is some strategy about when to play some cards and even losing duels to get back to the start has its place. Most will find a fun, quick game that is worth owning.

Review originally written for the CharCon Game Convention site. www.charcon.org

Thread: Re: A good game of trade and swords!

the1jugg — 2008-06-16T14:55:58+00:00

crobledo wrote:
It becomes kind of analogous to kingsburg 2-player. Interaction goes down, but its still fun. Feels more "race-y".

Well, we (and by we I mean SHE) really do love 2 player Kingsburg. We also prefer less cut-throat games (shes not a fan of confrontation). So, this sounds like it might actually work better as a 2-player game for us.

thanks for the unput

Jugg

Thread: Re: Landing on a business

Great Dane — 2008-06-15T09:31:17+00:00

You may stay in a circle on a Business without doing Business.

Thread: Re: Landing on a business

SteveK2 — 2008-06-14T17:58:36+00:00

From the English rules on bgg (bottom of page 2):

If there is an unoccupied circle there, you must move your figure on to it. You can then make use of the business (see ‘The Businesses’) but you do not have to (for example, if you do not have enough money).

Using a business is optional.

The only thing you have to look out for is if the circles are occupied - in that case you must immediately move on, or duel to occupy a circle. You can only finish movement on a business tile if you can move into a circle.

Thread: Landing on a business

skeletodoc — 2008-06-14T16:27:24+00:00

Must you trade at a business or can you land there and sit without using the business action. From the rules it's hard to find this out. What if I move my piece to a business and do not have the cards to pay for the action? Must I have the cards to pay if I just want to move there only?

Thread: Toledo Microbadges

vekoma — 2008-06-14T11:46:22+00:00

Two lovely microbadges available for the fans:

[INLINEIMG]http://files.boardgamegeek.com/images/microbadges/toledo1.gi...[/INLINEIMG] [INLINEIMG]http://files.boardgamegeek.com/images/microbadges/toledo2.gi...[/INLINEIMG]

Thread: Re: A good game of trade and swords!

crobledo — 2008-06-13T12:00:46+00:00

We only played once 2-player. It was not bad at all, but it does become much less cutthroat. Players almost always have spaces free to lay tiles down, and duels are quite rare unless you are actively trying to duel.

It becomes kind of analogous to kingsburg 2-player. Interaction goes down, but its still fun. Feels more "race-y".

Thread: Re: A good game of trade and swords!

the1jugg — 2008-06-12T22:01:39+00:00

Thanks for the review. I've been very curious about this one. Do you have input about how well it plays with 2 players?

Jugg

Thread: A good game of trade and swords!

crobledo — 2008-06-12T19:11:54+00:00

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Overview

Toledo, by Martin Wallace and from Mayfair Games, is a game about trading and swordsmithing in Toledo, Spain. I read about this game a few months ago and was instantly intrigued. My family is from Spain, and I have actually been to Toledo before. It is a great city and a lot of fun to visit. A few weeks later, I stumbled upon the rules. I read through them and seems fairly simple. Typical eurogame, trade for goods, build goods, deliver said goods.

Last week, while shopping for something else I saw that they had Toledo in stock. Recently I have been really good about not buying a game without ever playing it first. I got burned a few times doing it, and I try to keep my cool when putting orders in. Let someone else pay for it first, try it out THEN buy. Keeps significant others happy. I unfortunately couldn't resist and had to buy it. For some reason the theme, though 'tacked on' as most Eurogames are, still appealed to me enough to get it.

Martin Wallace, as most of you know, produces some great games like Age of Steam and Brass. I knew it had a reputable designer behind it, I liked the theme, mechanics seemed solid, plays in 90 minutes (I was skeptical taking into account Martin Wallace's track record)... time to bend my rule some and just get it.

What you get in the box

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Alright, lets talk about what you get. Nice color board, vibrant colors. 5 pawns in 4 colors for players. A baggie full of gems (acrylic stones), two decks of cards and some cardboard to punch out. I really liked all the components. The gems are a very nice touch and the metal bars are actually shaped like metal bars. All the cardboard tiles are very sturdy, as well as the board. Also, the box insert is actually useful and has slots for all the stuff you need when you put it away, very much like the insert for Pillars of the Earth.

No major complaints with any of it. Ok... maybe only one. The movement card deck is of a lighter card stock than I like. They are not bad quality or anything, they are great, but they are just a bit thinner than usual and they are easy to get bent if you are not careful. The reason they are this thin is probably because the deck is quite big and cards being thicker would just make it hard to shuffle.

The rulebook is actually just a rules sheet, 2 pages front and back.

Setup and Gameplay

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You setup the game by placing the board down and then all players place their pawns in the cathedral space. Set the metal bars and gems on their spots, as with the sword tiles and fencing tiles. Both decks are also placed on their respective places on the board. Players then take 5 movement cards each and a set of business tiles matching their color. Youngest player starts.

A player can select ONE action per turn:

1. Draw 2 movement cards - self explanatory

2. Place a business tile on the board - take one business tile from the ones you have remaining and place it on the board, in any empty spot you would like.

3. Move one or more pawns by playing movement cards - Move pawns around the board, following the pre-printed directions on the board. Toledo is basically 3 rows of businesses ending at the 'Alcazar' at the top. Movement rules are a bit tricky and I will get to them below. You also get to use any building you end your movement on with a pawn when taking this action.

4. Return a pawn to the cathedral - You can voluntarily return a pawn back to the cathedral. No-one ever picked this in our games.

Play continues clockwise until the game is over. The end of the game is triggered when one player reaches one of the two 'Alcazar' spots at the end of the track with 3 or more pawns. Each other player then takes a turn and final scoring begins.

Dueling
Whenever there is not enough room in a building for you to place your pawn in, you may duel a pawn already there (another player's pawn only) in order to attempt to take the current occupant's space.
If you choose to do so then follow these steps.

1. Turn over the top movement card and look at the symbol on the bottom. If either player has a dueling tile (see "Fencing master" under businesses below) of the same color as the revealed card, they get a point.
2. If neither player or both players have the color specified (or the card does not specify a color) then the point is won by the depicted person. If the attacker's icon is highlighted, then the attacker gets the point. If the defender's icon is highlighted, then the defender gets a point.
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 until one player has 2 points. That player is the victor and the loosing pawn is placed at the cathedral. Play then continues as normal

Movement rules
When doing the "move one or more pawns" actions, you are allowed to play movement cards in order to move your pawns and visit the businesses in the city. You play a card and move any pawn EXACTLY the indicated amount of spaces (cards come in values 1-6). If there is an empty spot in the space you land on, you can occupy it and visit that business. If the tile has no free spaces, you can either move on or duel another player and try to force them out.

You may then play ANOTHER card of the exact same value, and move again with the same pawn or a different one. You can therefore keep playing cards and moving as long as all the cards are the same value.

When you use a business, you must pay the owner to use it. If the building is yours, you pay nothing. If it is another player's building, you must give the owner exactly ONE card of the value of the row the business is on or HIGHER, but you don't get any change. The first row is 1, the second is 3 and the third is 5. If you visit the artist (last space of row 2) or the taverns (there is one in row 1 and one in row 2) then you just discard one card of the required value or greater.

The movement tile (how to get it below under "Fencing master") allows a player to play ONE extra card during every turn of a different value than the rest of the others. This card can be played before the "first card" of the player's turn, or after it has been played. For example, you can play 2,2,2,5,2 or 5,2,2,2,2 or 2,5,2,2,2.

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Businesses
There are 4 different business tiles, of which each player has two of, one with one space for pawns, and the other has 2. There are also 2 more businesses pre-printed on the board. These all are:

Metal trader - You take one metal bar from supply.

Gem trader - You take one gem from supply.

Swordsmith - You pick one sword tile and pay the listed resources, then take the tile.

Fencing master - You take one of the colored fencing tiles OR the movement tile. You may never have more than one of each color, and you may never have more than 3 total. If you ever pick up a fourth, you need to discard another.

Tavern - (pinted on board) Draw 3 movement cards.

Artist - (printed on board) You take the top card from the paintings deck. The first card is worth 3, then 2, then 2 and the last three cards are worth 1.

Game end
Whenever a pawn reaches one of the Alcazar spaces, remove that pawn from the board and put one of your forged swords under him, if you have any. He has now presented it to the emperor. Whenever one player has 3 or more pawns in the Alcazar, each other player gets one more turn and then the game is over and scoring begins.

Final scoring is as follows:

1. Get the points listed on the swords presented to the emperor.
2. Get half of the points listed on any swords furged but not presented, rounded down.
3. Get 1 point for every two gems you have left over.
4. Get points equal to the printed value of any paintings collected.
5. Get -2 points if you still have a movement tile.

Add up the points and the highest total is the winner.

Impressions

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Toledo was at the end of the day a very good game with very varied and interesting decisions. It is definitely not as complex as other Martin Wallace games, but it is very enjoyable. There are still very many choices the players have to make, and it can be very strategic.

The whole game was really about what decision to make at the time. Do I put a business down now and try to get people to use it so I can get cards, or do I move now and try to get into that tavern early. Do I save up my materials for a better sword, or do I use them now and secure the tile. This happens all the time and it does present a difficult challenge as you play.

One thing I did not like is that it is very hard to predict when the game is close to ending. In our very first game, one player just sat gathering cards and materials for a little while. He smithed the 3-metal, 3-gem sword (worth 12 points) and another small metal sword. He just gathered more cards for a few more rounds, no paintings, no duel tiles. He then played about 6 5-point cards in the same turn, getting 3 pawns in the same turn and turning in his 2 swords. None of us were able to get any swords in before the game was over! Even the player who smithed the 16 point sword had no chance as it was only worth 8 points. Just seems like a little too sudden.

Still, we had a good time playing and it is definitely going to see play in our group. It was a very refreshing delivery game, and it is always nice to see polished games like these from Martin Wallace. With 4 players it takes about 90 minutes, but with less players it doesn't even take that long.

Thread: Re: Holy Toledo Batman! Martin Wallace is squeaky clean.

arkibet — 2008-06-09T20:25:48+00:00

Martin Wallace + Me = Whipping Boy. But the art and the concept greatly intrigued me. Your review reminded me of a funny simile: "The toy sailboat glided gently down the stream, just like a bowling ball wouldn't."

Not sure I'll like this one, but I'd play it if someone else had a copy

Thread: Re: I live in Toledo!

arkibet — 2008-06-09T20:18:08+00:00

mattriceten wrote:
I am writing this post from my study in the Old Town of Toledo, Spain!

(I just wanted to share this with everyone here on BoardGameGeek.... probably because I'm suffering from a s**t of a summer cold and I'm slightly hopped up on Bisolgrip, but such is life!)

Saludos,

Matt!

I have to say, looking at the board definitely evoked memories of walking through Toledo. It really is a wonderfully crazy place.

Thread: Player Aids Available for Download

tgbruiser — 2008-05-16T15:06:35+00:00

The player aids that I created were just approved so they are now available for download.

You need to print out two copies with two per page, double-sided to get a full set of four.

Please let me know of any changes needed or how they can be improved.

Thread: Re: Swords--for decoration only!

frankinla — 2008-05-10T00:11:13+00:00

Youtube Video

Warning: language; swords.

Thread: Swords--for decoration only!

Desiderata — 2008-05-09T04:27:49+00:00

Not a bad game for the short time it takes to learn and play.

Complexity: New players can learn this game in about ten minutes. The game doesn’t require a whole lot of thought, and there’s not much analysis paralysis. This game works for non-gamers, who shouldn’t have a difficult time playing quickly.

Setup: Setup takes less than five minutes, but can take longer if players put too much thought into the initial placement of their shops.

Bits: The board is mediocre, depicting the city of Toledo, but covered in spaces to be covered by tiles and cards. So, not much of the actual board shows following setup. The art cards are to be commended for their…well, art. Also of note is the nice cardboard tiles looking like steel bars and multicolored gemstones, all of which are materials of the swords. The bits are of great quality.

Gameplay: The game is played on a linear path (towards the fortress), with each player controlling several meeples. Players visit shops along the path to conduct various activities. Each shop has a limited amount of space, and if there is no room for entering the shop, a player may initiate combat with another player. Combat is very simple, and is resolved by drawing cards with the best two out of three winning. Players can “train” in order to improve their odds of winning. A losing player places his piece back at the start.

Collecting steel and gems and then subsequently visiting a blacksmith will allow a player to make a sword. Then, when a player’s meeple reaches the fortress, he plays the sword and earns victory points equal to its value, which is dependent on how many materials were used in its production. There is an art shop where a limited number of canvases may be purchased. These are presented at the fortress as well and earn the player victory points. Obviously, the player with the most vps at the end of the game is the winner.

Luck & Strategy: The movement and combat all revolve around drawing cards, so luck plays a factor. However, there is a lot of strategy involved. One must decide how soon to send meeples to the fortress, how quickly to work on making the rarer valuable swords, how much to focus on hindering other players, etc. I’d say the combat involves the most amount of luck, but losing in combat doesn’t seem to be too detrimental anyways. (Unfortunately, you cannot use the swords you made for the combat.) Movement is chosen by choosing among cards in your hand, so the luck is only there for what cards you draw for your hand.

Theme: Nice theme and unique, since it takes place in Toledo, Spain, and you’re making swords. The theme isn’t pasted-on, and it works well with the gameplay.

Overall: This game is a nice light-weight game that can make an excellent filler or warm-up game. Also good for a group of non-gamers. Serious gamers may not get much out of this though. I didn’t play it with only two players, but I’m guessing that it is better with 3 or 4.

Thread: Re: Holy Toledo Batman! Martin Wallace is squeaky clean.

unixrevolution — 2008-04-28T19:55:59+00:00

domcrap wrote:
Stephen Glenn wrote:
As I say, I thought the game was terrific. That was, until I saw the box cover. I don't like the way that guy's looking at me. Who does he think he is?

Be careful of what you say or your head will be the next thing pounded on that anvil...

He is quite obviously suprised to look up from his work and see a citizen (not even an apprentice blacksmith!) in his shop staring at him.

Thread: Re: I live in Toledo!

mattriceten — 2008-04-28T13:34:20+00:00

Good memories there, Dan!

Yeah, Toledo is a wonderfuly city... Living here, though, you sometimes forget what a wonderful place it is... It's amazing how easy 'life's little trials' can blind you as you go on your way....

(Mostly in the alleyways of the old town when you have to get to work and you're blocked in by hoards of tourists buying swords!)

Thread: Re: Holy Toledo Batman! Martin Wallace is squeaky clean.

victoryzine — 2008-04-28T08:25:38+00:00

Thread: Re: I live in Toledo!

allezpsg — 2008-04-28T03:08:00+00:00

Matt, I grew up in Toledo, Ohio and I had the opportunity to visit our sister city in Spain in 1998. That day trip out of Madrid is one of my fondest memories of my trip. What a neat "old-world" city! While I didn't purchase a sword there (I was concerned about customs, too) I did enjoy stopping in the various sword shops to admire the works.

Thread: Re: I live in Toledo!

mattriceten — 2008-04-27T18:02:05+00:00

Excellent! I'm sure it's a paper at the cutting edge of journalism! (Mmmm... a slightly cruddy joke there... I'm still suffering from that cold!... at least, that's the excuse I'm sticking with...)

They still make swords here in Toledo, Spain... Infact, un amigo of mine has a sword shop (although he himself doesn't make the things...)

They're popular with the tourists, though how the hell they get them through customs, God alone knows!

Thread: Re: I live in Toledo!

allezpsg — 2008-04-26T19:04:41+00:00

No swords (or at least not many), but the local newspaper is called The Blade.

Thread: Re: Holy Toledo Batman! Martin Wallace is squeaky clean.

domcrap — 2008-04-26T13:51:41+00:00

Stephen Glenn wrote:
As I say, I thought the game was terrific. That was, until I saw the box cover. I don't like the way that guy's looking at me. Who does he think he is?

Be careful of what you say or your head will be the next thing pounded on that anvil...

Thread: Re: I live in Toledo!

Mutombo — 2008-04-26T13:23:34+00:00

No it's definitely named after the nearby Toledo, Illinois! Population 1300!

Thread: Re: I live in Toledo!

Imago — 2008-04-26T12:19:50+00:00

Boss Happy wrote:
Since we're stating obvious facts...

Did you know that Toledo, Ohio was named after Toledo, Spain?

I thought it was named after Toledo, Iowa?

Thread: Re: I live in Toledo!

mattriceten — 2008-04-26T12:18:58+00:00

I did indeed!

But do they make swords in Toledo, Ohio, I wonder!?

Ciao!

Matt

Thread: Re: I live in Toledo!

Boss Happy — 2008-04-26T12:07:58+00:00

Since we're stating obvious facts...

Did you know that Toledo, Ohio was named after Toledo, Spain?

Thread: I live in Toledo!

mattriceten — 2008-04-26T11:52:56+00:00

I am writing this post from my study in the Old Town of Toledo, Spain!

(I just wanted to share this with everyone here on BoardGameGeek.... probably because I'm suffering from a s**t of a summer cold and I'm slightly hopped up on Bisolgrip, but such is life!)

Saludos,

Matt!

Thread: Re: Holy Toledo Batman! Martin Wallace is squeaky clean.

DarrellKH — 2008-04-25T18:46:19+00:00

Thanks for such a thorough review.

For those who think this depth of game is a first for Martin Wallace, I recommend you try to obtain a copy of Tyros. This game is easily explained in about 5 minutes, and playable in 90 minutes or less.