Game: New World: A Carcassonne Game

Thread: Re: Ability to complete farm southwest of Jamestown; Abilty to complete any farm

ColtsFan76 — 2008-11-29T05:09:48+00:00

You can build to the south but not back to the west. A farm in this location would never be completed and most likely the farmer would not survive the surveyors. The only time it would make sense if the game was drawing to a close and the surveyors couldn't move. You could pick up those points in final scoring.

Thread: Ability to complete farm southwest of Jamestown; Abilty to complete any farm

Palladin — 2008-11-29T03:56:48+00:00

In our game today, a player wanted to place a farm tile on the space to the south and west of Jamestown. I opined that since there were no "water" or "ocean" tiles, that the most value to the farm would be 8 points, and likely none, since the settler would be removed when the surveyer's moved past. In short, while a legal play, the space which would be two tiles due south from Jamestown (i.e. the first space just off the south edge of the game board) can't be filed. This is in contrast to the space just off the north edge of the game board.

However the person playing the farm tile disagreed with my opinion on the rules as to the ability to complete the farm, but did agree that it didn't make much sense to place a settler since it would be removed in fairly short order when the surveyors moved. We both agreed that it was a futile strategy to place a settler in hope of completing a farm since it was likely very difficult to do given the movement of surveyors when ever a feature is scored. Comments?

Thread: Re: Blank Tile Variant: Native American Resistance to Colonial Westward Expansion

ShreveportLAGamer — 2008-11-26T02:44:31+00:00

Keith Creighton (starwarsgolfer) wrote:
Thanks for the lesson. I really appreciated the history behind your mechanic. I personally like the second option better, but wonder if there would be any consequence since meeples get pulled off so fast in this game.
Yes, but consequences are fully intended. The catch is: How to make those consequences ratchet up accordingly in a balanced manner?

As as addendum to my original post, I propose that for the first run of the Native American Resistance (NAR) tile and meeple that any colonial meeples would be returned to the supply but not be removed entirely from the game.

For its second run, if the Native American Resistance meeple lands on a tile containing a colonial meeple which is located in the column north of the NAR tile, in the row west of the NAR tile, or in anywhere in the sector located northwest of the NAR tile, then the colonial meeple would be removed from that tile and from play altogether (not given back to its owner). If, however, the NAR meeple lands on any tile located anywhere else, its colonial meeple would simply be removed from the tile and given back to its owner to put in his/her supply.

For its third and subsequent runs, I would propose that if/when the NAR meeple lands on any tile containing a colonial meeple that the latter be removed from the tile and from play altogether and not be returned to its owner.

This incremental approach should ratchet up things accordingly and make it all the more challenging as well.

Thread: Re: Blank Tile Variant: Native American Resistance to Colonial Westward Expansion

starwarsgolfer — 2008-11-26T02:19:59+00:00

Thanks for the lesson. I really appreciated the history behind your mechanic. I personally like the second option better, but wonder if there would be any consequence since meeples get pulled off so fast in this game.

Thread: Blank Tile Variant: Native American Resistance to Colonial Westward Expansion

ShreveportLAGamer — 2008-11-25T23:51:20+00:00

To paraphrase Steve Martin, "History is NOT pretty," however, "New World Carcassonne" seemingly overlooked a bit of relevant history that otherwise might have been used to counterbalance its gameplay's east-to-west movement: Native American resistance to colonial westward expansion.

Native American resistance is a relevant historical factor that cannot be overlooked or excluded. After all, even though it doesn't play an integral part of the U.S. version of the game, the Plymouth, MA settlement up in the righthand corner provides not only an inspirational touchstone but also a haunting reminder of what transpired both before and after the Pilgrims and Puritans arrived.

In the decades preceeding the arrival of the Pilgrims in 1620, English traders and slavers had purposefully given small pox-infected blankets to the Wompanoag Indians (the survivors of whom later befriended the Pilgrims) and other tribes which vastly decimated the Native American populations and made them all the more vulnerable to capture, exploitation and enslavement. Lest we forget, during that time, Squanto of the Wompanoag Indians had been captured and sold into slavery, escaped, earned himself an English education in England, and returned home to his native tribesmen. And if ever there were a godsend for the Pilgrims, it was in the person of Squanto, for he was the perfect a go-to guy and go-between that could readily mediatate between Native Americans and Pilgrims alike. Moreover, the Wompanoag Indians taught the Pilgrims how to survive and plant crops in the New World.

Some 54 years after that original Thanksgiving feast of 1621, King Philip's War erupted. "King Philip" was the English name given to Chief Metacom, son of the original Wompanoag Chief Massasoit who'd attended that first Thanksgiving feast of 1621. However, over the years and decades since then, many new Pilgrims, Puritans and other settlers had arrived in Massachusetts and continued westward expansion of their settlements, encroaching on lands that by prior treaties weren't supposed to have been tresspassed on or used for colonial settlement and exploitation. With each new broken treaty, Native Americans sensed they were slowly being marginalized and driven from their ancestral homelands. Finally, they resisted more ardently and King Philip's War commenced. (Ironically, the leader of the Pilgrims at that time was the son of Edward Winslow of the original colony founders. Needless to say, he was of a somewhat different mindset than his father.)

> Excerpt from "1621: A New Look at Thanksgiving" by Catherine O'Neill Grace and Margaret M. Buchac (2001, Children's Division of National Geographic Books):

For three days in 1621, Chief Massasoit, William Bradford and the people they led celebrated that first harvest together. They felt safe in the assurance of the agreement between them. But Chief Massasoit's alliance with the Plymouth colonies would only last for a single generation. By 1640, the population of Plymouth Colony was 300. By the end of the decade, it was close to 2,000. Demand for land led to disputes among the colonists themselves and between colonists and Native people. Tensions arose that lasted for decades and still linger today.

After the 1637 massacre of Pequot Indians at Mystic Fort, New England's Native American people began to form broader alliances. In 1675, Massasoit's son, Metacom, alled called Philip, rallied people from many Native American nations in an attempt to drive the English out of Native American homelands. During "King's Philip's War," many English and Wampanoag Indians died. English settlements were burned. Native American captives were sold into slavery in the West Indies (Cuba, Jamaica, Haiti, etc.). By the war's end in 1676, Metacom had been killed and his 9-year-old son was enslaved. The Wampanoag Indians had lost their political independence and much of their homeland. The town of Plymouth declared a special day of thanksgiving for the English victory....

Back in the 19th century, one paragraph of only 115 words mentioning that first Thanksgiving feast in a letter written in 1621 inspired the growth of an American tradition that eventually became the national holiday. A number of today's assumptions about that event are based more on fiction than on fact. Many Americans still think that the Pilgrims took over emplty land from roving Native American wanderers who had no fixed settlement. They are unaware of the continued existence of the descendants of those Native American people. Unquestioning acceptance of biased interpretations can affect the way we treat one another even today.

Considering this history and what came in later centuries, Native American people do not share in the popular reverence for the traditional New England "Thanksgiving." To the Wampanoag Indians, the holiday is a reminder of the arrival of the English in their homeland, a presence that brought betrayal and bloodshed. Since 1970, many Native American people have gathered at the statue of Chief Massasoit in Plymouth, Massachusetts each Thanksgiving Day. They keep a vigil in the memory of the struggles of their ancestors and the strength of Wompanoag persistance.

In the 20th century, people have began to re-examine American History. Effots have been made to think in new ways about how we became the nation we are today. This means that many untold stories are coming to light. One of these is the story of the harvest at Plymouth in 1621.

In 1947, the founders of the living Plimoth Plantation created a living museum, a restoration of the original Plymouth village, to honor the 17th-century English colonists who would come to be known to the world as the Pilgrims. In doing so, the founders left out the perspective of the Wampanoag people who had lived on the land for thousands of years.

In October 2000, several hundred people gathered at the modern-day living Plimoth Plantation village and museum to re-enact the 1621 harvest gathering. For three days, photographers, advisers, Plimoth Planation staff, and members of the Wampanoag Nation and other Native American communities came together to depict the events of that time. This event, a first in the history of the museum, turned out to be a powerful gathering for all involved.* . . .

In preparation for the weekend, six Native American artisans worked with deerskin, furs, beads, bone, shell, feathers and other natural materials to handcraft traditional garments for the Native American participants to wear. Many local Wampanoag people proudly wore these garments in memory of their ancestors and in honor of all their relatives who are still here living in Wampanoag territory. In the end, more than a hundred Wampanoag and other Native American people participated in the event. . . . The Wampanoag people and those from other Native American nations felt an enormous pride in seeing their community acknowledged, celebrated and portrayed so respectfully and so beautifully in the historical re-enactment.

The Wampanoag Indian Program at Plimoth Plantation has become a gathering place where Wampanoag artisans, scholars, performers and educators actively work to recover and interpret the history and culture of their ancestors. . . . Historians re-interpret the documents, artifacts and oral histories about the early days of the colony in an effort to replace popular myths with accurate history. A museum that started as a place to commemorate the Pilgrims has become a place where the understanding of history is being corrected to include all perspectives of the past.

_________________________________________

*This endeavor, a first in the history of the museum, is captured in "1621: A New Look at Thanksgiving" by Catherine O'Neill Grace and Margaret M. Buchac (2001, Children's Division of National Geographic Books) illustrated with photographs from that event. For more information, be sure to check out: http://www.plimothplantation.org/

So, with all that aforementioned history above provided as a preface, I propose the Native American Resistance to Colonial Westward Expansion tile as a variant for the blank tile.

As of this writing, I envision two ways it could be utilized (and please keep in mind, although the following is a revised version of my original idea, I'm still open to new ideas and suggestions to enhance it):

Native American Resistance to Colonial Westward Expansion Tile Variant
Revised Version

During its first run when played, one lays the Native American Resistance tile and places a stand-alone meeple on it to represent Native American resistance. Thereafter, when it's the turn of the player who placed the Native American Resistance tile, after his regular turn, he will throw a eight-sided directional dice (with all eight cardinal directions on it: N, S, E, W, NE, SE, NW, SW) and based on the result, move the Native American Resistance meeple in the proscribed direction one tile. Any colonial meeples of any sort located on any tile upon which the Native American Resistance meeple comes to rest are then removed from play and returned to their owners to return to their supply.

If/when the Native American Resistance meeple ever exits land areas altogether to either come to rest in the Atlantic Ocean or go off the board/tiles altogether, then it's removed from play along with the Native American Resistance tile as well, and the tile itself it placed back into the mix of still-undrawn tiles to possibly be redrawn yet again.

For its second run, if the Native American Resistance meeple lands on a tile containing a colonial meeple which is located in the column north of the NAR tile, in the row west of the NAR tile, or in anywhere in the sector lying northwest of the NAR tile, then the colonial meeple would be removed from that tile and from play altogether (not given back to its owner). If, however, the NAR meeple lands on any tile located anywhere else, the colonial meeple it wipes out would simply be removed from the tile and given back to its owner to return to his/her supply.

For its third and subsequent runs, if/when the NAR meeple lands on any tile containing a colonial meeple on any tile anywhere, the colonial meeple be would then be removed from that tile and from play altogether and not be returned to its owner.

(Alternate Variant: When placed anywhere in the tile grid, the Native American Resistance tile would serve as a cornerstone of sorts: that is, the point value of every tile in the column north and row west of it and all tiles enclosed within that entire sector to the northwest of it would either be halved or reduced to one point and any meeples on those tiles would be similarly affected. No meeples would be removed from the game for being in that zone though.)

Suggested Imagery for the Native American Resistance Tile: Go to www.plimothplantation.org and click on their website until you see the Plimoth Plantation logo of the Wompanoag Indian facing left and the Pilgrim guy facing right (as if back to back). Copy and flip the image of the Native American so that he's facing toward the right (East). The profile of the Wompanoag Indian should then be fairly simple enough to follow for a suitable tile design.

I'm open to any other ideas or suggestions to flesh out this variant, espeically ideas about what to draw and paint on the Native American Resistance Tile that's true to history but wouldn't be stereotypical.

(Revised on 11/26/2008)

Thread: Re: Broke Rules

Dragonmage — 2008-11-17T01:38:42+00:00

The Official, printed rules, not only state that you can claim and score an empty feature on the tile you placed, they also go on to use examples, in the Description of Scoring section, which do just that. I'm sure that there are variants and house rules which can be added to improve play, but IMHO if the Official rules as printed don't work, they're broke. If Rio Grande agree's with the designers changes as you suggest, they should correct and post new "Official Rules".

Thread: Re: What is the purpose of Plymouth or the blank tile?

Palladin — 2008-11-11T02:08:59+00:00

Because of the "historical" nature of the game, I think they wanted to include Plymouth.

This might be a good rationalization if the German version wasn't called "Mayflower". Having 95 tiles I can live with, but why put the Plymouth settlement on the board if it was meaningless? It really, really bothers me.

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

hurricanej — 2008-11-10T23:46:03+00:00

JeffyJeff wrote:
It's very rare to have a component problem with an RGG title, but it's nice to know again when there is, Jay is great at fixing it!

I completely agree with both of your points. I own some 50 Rio Grande Games and this is the first time that I can remember having any issues.

Jay and I had an email exchange and I am now watching the mailbox for new tiles. I look forward to playing this game -- just in time for the Thanksgiving/November season!

As I told Jay in our email correspondence -- Rio Grande Games is my favorite publisher!

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

JeffyJeff — 2008-11-10T21:43:33+00:00

Jay's great customer service still rules! I just got in the mail extremely clean cut replacements for the ones that had a bad die cut on my copy (which sounds like may vary from copy to copy of the game).

It's very rare to have a component problem with an RGG title, but it's nice to know again when there is, Jay is great at fixing it!

Thread: Re: What is the purpose of Plymouth or the blank tile?

JeffyJeff — 2008-11-10T21:40:30+00:00

You can use the blank tile to create your own variant tile

Thread: Re: What is the purpose of Plymouth or the blank tile?

ColtsFan76 — 2008-11-10T04:23:41+00:00

Because of the "historical" nature of the game, I think they wanted to include Plymouth.

As for the blank tile, it probably wasn't used since there isn't a start tile. Though Carcassonne has 72 which is divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6, they took the start tile out of the mix and left everyone with 71 tiles, which is a prime number. So go figure.

Thread: What is the purpose of Plymouth or the blank tile?

Palladin — 2008-11-10T03:25:13+00:00

Why is the New England settlement of Plymouth even pictured? It appears to be already completed and has a single road, leading south to a crossroads, so neither the settlement nor the road can be extended or scored.

Another point, why not include an additonal tile with features on it, and make it a 2, 3, or 4 person game? This would provide 96 tiles, which is divisible by 2,3 and 4, so each player has an equal number of draws/turns. Instead, we get 95 tiles, which is only evenly divisible by 5 players.

I was really looking forward to this game, but with a board and a rule set which is confusing, incomplete or just not well thought out, it makes me wish I hadn't spent the money or purchased Colovini's Discovery version instead.

Thread: Re: trapping territory and Surveyor movements

Aldaron — 2008-11-09T23:37:05+00:00

sala33 wrote:
2. Do surveyors always stay in the same row you're put them in the beginning. Do they always move horizontally west, or can they move south-west and north-west? if there is no tiles directly to the west of the surveyors. if they can move SW or NW do they have to stay in an adjacent row?
Surveyors can move to any row, as long as they move one column westward. In fact, if there's no tile in a surveyor's current row in the column to which it needs to move, it has to move to a different row.

Thread: Re: trapping territory and Surveyor movements

starwarsgolfer — 2008-11-09T14:07:10+00:00

In addition to the above comment, the two surveyors can even be on the same tile if you want/need to. For example, if there is only tile in the next column and there is a surveryor on it, you can move the other surveyor whena scoring is made.

Thread: Re: trapping territory and Surveyor movements

ColtsFan76 — 2008-11-09T11:11:21+00:00

1. If you see any green between the features, it continues.

2. No, they just need to advance column by column. They do not need to follow a contiguous path. They can be in Row "1" Column "1" and jump to Row "5" Column "2" if need be.

Thread: trapping territory and Surveyor movements

sala33 — 2008-11-09T06:10:37+00:00

two questions i had in my first new world carcassonne game:

1. trapping territories don't seem that clear. in the pieces where the trails are very close to the town walls, do the plains continue? There are a few tiles like this and we were unclear as to whether or not the plains continue.

2. Do surveyors always stay in the same row you're put them in the beginning. Do they always move horizontally west, or can they move south-west and north-west? if there is no tiles directly to the west of the surveyors. if they can move SW or NW do they have to stay in an adjacent row?

thanks! sals.

Thread: Re: First two plays

yogjoshoth — 2008-11-08T19:02:05+00:00

Since it feels so different due to the surveyors, would it break the game if you just omit them...as a house rule?

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

hurricanej — 2008-11-07T04:42:54+00:00

JeffyJeff wrote:
Ok, I went through my tiles and found the ones that didn't come out of the die cut sheets cleanly... the one in the image in the upper left corner is the tile that came out the worse...

There is an insert in the game labeled "B1" that identifies all the tiles used in the game. Check my work, but your damaged tiles map to:
D, P, O, AT
AG, P, N

My worst damaged tiles were:
AH, AT, B, C, D, G, H, K, L (times 2), M, Q, R

My less damaged tiles were:
AK, AU, B, C, D, F, H (times 2), I, K (times 2), N (times 2), O, P (times 2), Q, X

We match on:
D, P, O, AT, N

Of particular interest is tile P because we both had two damaged P tiles.

I might be able to salvage my less damaged tiles if I can delicately scratch or peel off jagged edges left on the tiles. Any recommendations?

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

hurricanej — 2008-11-07T03:30:29+00:00

I trust 'em. Gotta give 'em time to figure out what to do.

Hmmm... well, I gave RGG a week and they sent no reply. I've submitted another request for replacements on their customer service page.

I have a sneaking suspicion Jay is tired out from Essen... I know I would be!

Thread: Re: New World - A Carcassonne Game - Review

Great_Mazinga — 2008-11-06T22:24:02+00:00

Actually that "missing" yellow explorer in the photo you referrence in the review is there. It's just very, very tiny. Seriously, I looked, befuddled at the picture trying to line it up with the example, before I realized it was a mistake. He's in there, just about the size of a pinhead right in the middle. Makes me wonder who proof-read the manual.

I'll also throw out, that while not a bad looking game, I am disappointed in the computer generated art and dark tones. Also I don't like that the similar tiles are now identical cut and paste jobs. I liked the personality of Gatherers and Vanilla, as little details are drawn differently. It makes it more enjoyable for an already good game.

I still recommend the game to players, I just wish it didn't have a short cut feel to me. It's the least attractive laid out on the table.

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

JeffyJeff — 2008-11-04T19:08:31+00:00

Ok, I went through my tiles and found the ones that didn't come out of the die cut sheets cleanly... the one in the image in the upper left corner is the tile that came out the worse...

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Thread: Re: Concise rules

Aldaron — 2008-11-03T17:08:44+00:00

The new version is now online.

Thread: Re: New World - A Carcassonne Game - Review

euklid — 2008-11-03T11:54:17+00:00

Rule clarification, cited from the official carcassonne-site http://www.carcassonne.de (which is in german). There is a small forum on the relevant Carcassonne-Mayflower page http://www.carcassonne.de/88.0.html (Mayflower is the german title of the game) where the Hans-im-Glueck Team (which surely gets in contact with the game author) answers the questions.

*) You can build north and south of the ten-tile width given by the starting position. However it is not allowed to build first north, then to the east and thus reach positions east of the coast line.

*) If both surveyors are on the westernmost column (this can be a single tile which takes both surveyors) and a city, street,... is finished then the surveyors don't move AND the settlers east of the surveyors are NOT removed.

That the eastern settlers are not removed in this situation is absolutely unclear from the rules in my opinion. In the rule book it says that eastern settlers are removed after the surveyors move to the west (this strenghens the above rule clarification of HiG, since no surveyors move). But in the rule book it also is noted that placing settlers east of the surveyors is risky because they are removed after the city, street or farm is finished FOR SURE.

Now you can choose if you want to play these rules which should be the ones intended by the author or you make up other rules that you like more...

Have fun,
Stefan

Thread: Re: Broke Rules

THORBOY — 2008-11-03T01:03:57+00:00

Sir Loin o Beef wrote:

Has anyone tried this without the Surveyors? Is it just Carcassonne then?

i played it this way with my fifth grade class and it worked out just like a regular carc game. another change that i made was that we didn't score incomplete roads or towns. i dont' know how much i like the idea of scoring something that isn't completed. after i play it with adults, using the correct rules, i may change my mind...who knows.

Thread: Re: Concise rules

Aldaron — 2008-11-01T22:40:14+00:00

Liumas wrote:
It's possible to 'complete' a feature without it 'scoring'?
Yes, but the point you make is correct: if no points are scored, the the surveyor doesn't move.

I've made the necessary change and have uploaded an update to the PDF.

Thread: Re: Concise rules

Liumas — 2008-11-01T19:19:39+00:00

[ all emphasis below is mine ]

It's possible to 'complete' a feature without it 'scoring'.

Aldaron wrote:
3. If the just placed tile completed any features, then for each feature, in an order determined by the player:
(a) Points (see table) are awarded to the player(s) with the most followers on each completed feature. All settlers in scored features are returned to their owners’ hands.
(b) If possible, a surveyor is moved one column to the west, moving the easternmost if they are in different columns.
(c) If a surveyor moved, non-trapper settlers to the east of the easternmost surveyor are returned to their owners’ hands.
If a feature is completed, but no points are scored for it, does a surveyor move?

RGG rules say

"After each feature is scored (there may be more than one in a turn), the player whose turn it is moves one surveyor one column to the west ..."

Elsewhere in the RGG rules the term 'completed' is explicitly used.

HiG Rules also use the term 'scoring' (as far as I can tell), rather than 'completed'.

Your (excellent) reference is the only such which uses the term 'completed' rather than 'scored', as far as I can tell.

I realize that it is possible to suggest that in this case the completed feature scores zero.

Thread: Re: Designer-intended Scoring Restriction

Liumas — 2008-11-01T18:27:49+00:00

Skull One wrote:
Instead of allowing the explorers to start moving west at the beginning of the game, start them at New York. They move like normal north on the score board, until they both reach Plymouth. Then they can head west.
Interesting idea! Nice thinking.

Thread: Re: Broke Rules

ColtsFan76 — 2008-11-01T16:21:23+00:00

Sir Loin o Beef wrote:
Much better. Thanks!

Would this keep someone from playing (finishing) on the unfinished roads/towns on the setup board?
If the next tile would complete them, yes. But if you placed a tile such that it wouldn't complete it, then you could place a meeple this turn and complete the feature on a later turn.

What does the designer say about playing North and South of the scoreboard? The picture I saw from Essen showed no tiles being played above/below these lines.
Yes, you may play North and south of the board, just not back to the east of the board.

Has anyone tried this without the Surveyors? Is it just Carcassonne then?
I would have to imagine without the Surveyors, it is just another Carc game. Probably more like Ark of the Covenant with how the "fields" are treated.

Thread: Re: Broke Rules

Sir Loin o Beef — 2008-11-01T14:18:53+00:00

Much better. Thanks!

Would this keep someone from playing (finishing) on the unfinished roads/towns on the setup board?

What does the designer say about playing North and South of the scoreboard? The picture I saw from Essen showed no tiles being played above/below these lines.

Has anyone tried this without the Surveyors? Is it just Carcassonne then?

Thread: Re: Broke Rules

ColtsFan76 — 2008-11-01T10:42:09+00:00

Sir Loin o Beef wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
P;ay the designer intened rules that didn't make it in either "official" version of the rules. No "quick scoring" is allowed.

If the tile you place would close an empty feature, you are not allowed to claim that feature. This will slow down the scoring and let your settlers get ahead of the surveyors.

Could you explain this simpler, for those of us to 'thick' to understand "empty feature". Thanks.
Say you have a road that is open at one end but has no meeples on it. The feature is "emoty" or better stated "unoccupied." You draw a tile that will complete this road. In mostof the other games (except Carc: City), you can place the tile, complete the feature, place your meeple, and then score immediately.

New World does not allow you to do this, according to the designer. If your tile completes a feature, you cannot place a meeple. The only way you can score that feature is if you or someone else had placed a meeple on a previous turn.

This reduces the number of scorings, which reduces the amount of Surveyor movement, which reduces the number of meeples that get cleared off. This allows you to work to complete more of the early features that were started so that when a Surveyor does happen to move, there is less for him to clear off the board. This also reduces the number of plump juicy unfinished features in the East. And if someone wants them bad enough, they have to commit 2 turns to it at least (one turn placing a tile and meeple, leaving the feature unfinished, and then a subsequent turn when they can complete the feature).

Thread: Re: Broke Rules

Sir Loin o Beef — 2008-11-01T08:38:05+00:00

ColtsFan76 wrote:
P;ay the designer intened rules that didn't make it in either "official" version of the rules. No "quick scoring" is allowed.

If the tile you place would close an empty feature, you are not allowed to claim that feature. This will slow down the scoring and let your settlers get ahead of the surveyors.

Could you explain this simpler, for those of us to 'thick' to understand "empty feature". Thanks.

Thread: Re: Broke Rules

ColtsFan76 — 2008-11-01T04:03:27+00:00

P;ay the designer intened rules that didn't make it in either "official" version of the rules. No "quick scoring" is allowed.

If the tile you place would close an empty feature, you are not allowed to claim that feature. This will slow down the scoring and let your settlers get ahead of the surveyors.

If you choose to stick with the rules as written, then you need to realize that if the Surveyors make it to the western-most tile, they don't move. And if they don't move, mno one gets pulled off. So some strategy can come into play by not giving the Surveyors a path to take.

The game isn't broken, it's just different. Which means your tactics in the other Carc games won't necessarily work here.

Thread: Broke Rules

Dragonmage — 2008-11-01T01:48:33+00:00

As a long time Carcassonne fan, I was really looking forward to this game. But after playing it, I’m convinced the rules are fatally broke. How is this game getting a 6+ rating? It’s been my experience that the surveyors always outrun followers and live on the western-most edge of the board. This of course, precludes anyone from placing followers as anything but a Trader, who are immune to “death by surveyor”. I’ve played with 3, 4, and 5 players, and it’s always the same. A follower never lives long enough to score. This removes all game strategy, and reduces the game to a pure “luck of the draw” game. If you can draw a tile which can score immediately, you score. If not, you don’t.

Image

Aldaron — 2008-10-31T23:44:37+00:00

Trapper left alone on on the board after surveyors have moved on

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

Skull One — 2008-10-31T15:41:47+00:00

I agree 100% with the Bag idea. They should always include one. So far only Traders & Builders (due to the tile backs being to light in the original production run) and Carcassonne: The City have had them. The City bags are actually a tad nicer due to being bigger.

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

THORBOY — 2008-10-31T02:31:10+00:00

i had issues as well with every sheet. there were 2 or 3 on each sheet that didn't come out cleanly. i also wish they would have included a bag for the tiles like they did with one of the expansions i have.

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

hurricanej — 2008-10-31T01:54:01+00:00

Whoops! Let me rephrase that, then. I've never had an RGG problem... till now. I trust 'em. Gotta give 'em time to figure out what to do.

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

JeffyJeff — 2008-10-31T01:49:39+00:00

hurricanej wrote:
Out of all my RGG games in the past, I've only ever had problems with one other (the rockets in Starfarers of Catan) ...
That one (like most Catan games) is from Mayfair, not RGG

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

hurricanej — 2008-10-31T01:38:50+00:00

Which tiles did you ask for replacements for?

All of them. Every sheet was problematic. Am afraid this will disqualify me for replacements, but I figured it was worth a try.

I want to play the game -- especially during the Fall season. As it stands, it is unplayable (too many jagged edges). I do not want to re-purchase the game in the faint hope that I get lucky in the die-cut lottery.

I'll report back with RGG's response and actions. Out of all my RGG games in the past, I've only ever had problems with one other (the rockets in Starfarers of Catan) and they took care of that one.

[Edit: Clarification]

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

JeffyJeff — 2008-10-31T01:22:21+00:00

hurricanej wrote:
Worst die cut I've ever seen. Every sheet was problematic. Lots of rips, jaggies, and tears. Don't know what happened - I am a big fan of the Carcassonne line and own plenty of RGG and other games... but this one was just bad. I've emailed RGG and hope to get replacements.
Which tiles did you ask for replacements for? They are probably the same ones I need as I'm guessing it was the die cutter cut them all the same way

Thread: Re: Anyone else have die cut issues (tiles not coming out of the die cut sheets cleanly)?

hurricanej — 2008-10-31T01:16:15+00:00

Worst die cut I've ever seen. Every sheet was problematic. Lots of rips, jaggies, and tears. Don't know what happened - I am a big fan of the Carcassonne line and own plenty of RGG and other games... but this one was just bad. I've emailed RGG and hope to get replacements.

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druid4k — 2008-10-30T09:27:34+00:00

game play in essen

Thread: Re: New World - A Carcassonne Game - Review

eldrwyrm — 2008-10-29T18:46:25+00:00

Just wanted to say that I liked this review. I just played the game last night for the first time, and having read your review in retrospect I thought you made very solid points.

Thread: Re: Carcassonne Goes Cutthroat

SVan — 2008-10-28T13:46:41+00:00

If you think the normal Carcassonne isn't very cutthroat, then you haven't played it with my friends and family. Carcassonne is easily one of the most cutthroat games I've ever played. The Tower expansion is almost overkill. If the New World game is on that level, I might not like it as much as I hoped I would.

Thread: Re: Surveyor bonus per meeple in scored feature... does this include when same player has two meeples in same column on the same feature?

Skull One — 2008-10-27T20:49:33+00:00

aramis wrote:
Skull One wrote:
Straight from the RGG PDF:
So unless you can show a rule that says "You may score each settler individually", as in the rules for Carcassonne Discovery, then you pick up all the non-scoring settlers that were used to determine control first, then score the one remaining settler second and collect the bonus for that one settler.

Rulebook, Bottom of page three wrote:
NOTE: if a player has more than one settler on a scored feature, each scores the surveyor bonus separately. Each is checked for surveyor(s) in its column and scores the surveyor bonus when the surveyors are there.

It really helps to read the entirety of the rules.

William you missed a key piece of my post. I was quoting from the new PDF that was posted by RGG around Oct 8th by Jay (which is why I said "Straight from the RGG PDF"). Your comment is based on the original printed rules that were superseded by this PDF (per RGG). Your quote containing the word "surveyor" proves this because the new rules from RGG only use the word "explorer". And the quoted "NOTE: ..." you referenced was removed from the new PDF based rules completely.

So I did read the rules and I found that between the three we had at the time (original printed English, English PDF and original printed German) there was a huge unresolved issued. I was making the point that it could be resolved using only the new PDF. But as Brian and Aldaron pointed out over several conversations, that HiG is considered the final word for all things Carcassonne. Once Aldaron got his questions answered by HiG and they were posted here, I have been using the English PDF with foot notes from Aldaron's current FAQ. And after 50+ matches, I have to say the rules and FAQ work really well.

Thread: Re: Third Surveyor

aramis — 2008-10-27T19:41:01+00:00

havent' had much chance to try it yet. The wife and kid are unwilling to try!

But consider this: only half of the scores we had got points for surveyors anyway, and the rest got 8 anyway. I need to run more than a few turns this way.

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bmayer — 2008-10-27T18:27:51+00:00

Tough living conditions in early New York were brought about by overcrowing

Thread: Re: Third Surveyor

starwarsgolfer — 2008-10-27T11:58:01+00:00

With a third surveyor I would be concerned that the runaway problems I have had with the game would become even more apparent. Instead of just scoring 8 extra points for a lucky tile draw, a person could now gain 12 if all of the surveyors were lined up. Have you had any runaway problems?

Thread: Re: Carcassonne Goes Cutthroat

aramis — 2008-10-27T05:24:14+00:00

I feel its too cutthroat for me, and it's not going to get as much play as Travel Carc or Carc The Discovery.

A 6.5 is a game I'll play without complaint, but will seldom ask for, and won't play twice in a day.

For comparison, Std Carc I rate 8, same for Discovery... I need to go back. Castle also gets an 8, City a 7.5.

It's a good game, but it's not my favorite kind of Carcassonne. It's important to realize when a game isn't your speed. Looking at the bottom line, it's probably an 8+ for you... and a good review tells it like it is. That includes being honest about why you rate it the way you do.

Thread: Re: Designer-intended Scoring Restriction

Bobby4th — 2008-10-27T03:32:01+00:00

aramis wrote:
Playtesting is probably why... the designer's intent makes it bloody hard to score.
Nope. We played it this way with four players and I still scored a little a over 100 points and was the winner.

The Surveyors never reached the furthest westward tiles, but we still had one played have tremendously bad luck and end up way behind. I think it might be best with three players, though I suspect it might not ever get pulled out again, unless I want to use the blank to create a start tile and play it like regular Carcassonne without the surveyors.

Thread: Re: Designer-intended Scoring Restriction

ColtsFan76 — 2008-10-27T03:24:26+00:00

aramis wrote:
Playtesting is probably why... the designer's intent makes it bloody hard to score.
I found the opposite. I think I actually like the no quick scoring in thise one. I don't have enough plays in with different player counts to know for sure though. But our 2-player game was good with no fast scoring and our 4-player sucked with fast scoring. Too many people were getting wiped out and the surveyors were clogged on the western frontier almost the entire game.

Thread: Re: Surveyor bonus per meeple in scored feature... does this include when same player has two meeples in same column on the same feature?

Aldaron — 2008-10-27T03:15:53+00:00

aramis wrote:
It really helps to read the entirety of the rules.
I think everyone on this thread has read the rules. The issue is that there were several conflicting sources of information, including one claiming to contradict the RGG rules (and no experienced Carcassonne player trusts RGG rules as written):

Aldaron wrote:
Basically there are (so far!) ~~three~~ four sources of answers to this question:
(1) English rules (explicitly): Per settler, for each surveyor in the same column
(2) German rules (ambiguously): Per settler, for each surveyor in the same column
(3) According the Tom Hilgert: For each surveyor in same column as any scoring settlers
(4) HiG's response to my questions: Per settler, for each surveyor in the same column.
Now since 1, which you cite, 2, and 4 (which is as unambiguous as it gets) all agree, I'd say this issue is resolved. But the initial confusion did not come from not reading the rules.

Thread: Re: Carcassonne Goes Cutthroat

papahoth — 2008-10-27T03:11:22+00:00

You gave it such a good review and only gave it a 6.5? You are tough. Every time you said it was cutthroat raised it up in my eyes. Can't wait.

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aquarian — 2008-10-11T08:35:30+00:00

Finnish Carcassonne Uusi Maailma

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hrc333 — 2008-10-01T00:42:41+00:00

Unpunched Tile Sheet

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hrc333 — 2008-10-01T00:42:17+00:00

Unpunched Tile Sheet

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hrc333 — 2008-10-01T00:37:38+00:00

Unpunched Tile Sheet

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hrc333 — 2008-10-01T00:37:18+00:00

Unpunched Tile Sheet

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hrc333 — 2008-10-01T00:34:05+00:00

Unpunched Tile Sheet

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hrc333 — 2008-10-01T00:33:47+00:00

Unpunched Tile Sheet