Game: Katzenjammer Blues

Thread: Re: Joker card turned up = auction starts?

Xaykev — 2008-06-21T22:01:38+00:00

Thanks alot for the quick reply, Richard

Thread: Re: Joker card turned up = auction starts?

rplea — 2008-06-21T20:48:55+00:00

Both things happen when the joker is revealed.

Thread: Joker card turned up = auction starts?

Xaykev — 2008-06-21T19:42:45+00:00

When a card value is turned up a second time the auction starts.
Does the auction also start when a joker card is revealed?
Or do the players only draw a card each every time a joker shows up?

Thread: Joker Variant

Sprydle — 2008-05-19T18:19:32+00:00

We played at least 20 hands of this over the weekend using the following variant which works to add Joker pressure to every play with them. With the rules as written (which are fun mind you, this is truly just a variant, not a "fix") once someone has a couple jokers down, it frees everyone else to play 1 Joker effectively for free.

In this variant, you will be returning 1 mouse for every Joker in your stack at the end of the round (including those in your hand). This means there are no "free" jokers and you must always weigh the cost/benefit--a meld of 2s that use 1 Joker, will only net you 1 point. On the other hand, you also have to weight the use of the joker-meld (4 jokers) as rid-your-hand of them, or as a meld of 5 (which nets you 1 point) and uses up 5 mice--the 5 mice meld can be important in mutliplayer games where you are tracking total mice. In those games you may well be trying to seal a loss which loses you only a mouse or two and the 5-mice joker meld is good for running out the mouse total (though not so good if there are only 4 or fewer mice left in the pot).

It's a fun variant that changes play just slightly without upsetting Knizia's razor-edge balance.

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zefquaavius — 2007-12-09T18:06:40+00:00

Box back.

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zefquaavius — 2007-12-09T18:06:09+00:00

Better scan of the box front.

Thread: Re: Bidding with Jokers

fmoros — 2007-06-16T02:33:23+00:00

yes, you can use them

Thread: Re: Bidding with Jokers

RichardV — 2007-06-15T15:08:53+00:00

You can use the jokers to make up the bidding set.

Thread: Bidding with Jokers

flieger — 2007-06-15T13:37:03+00:00

Can jokers be part of a multiple-of-a-kind bid?
i.e. If I have two 3's and a joker in my hand, can i combine them to bid three 3's? Or, do multiple-of-a-kind bids have to be pure, i.e. no jokers involved?

Thread: Re: Six player, mediocre game.

Spielguy — 2006-11-03T20:20:56+00:00

Looks interesting. Thanks for the heads up.

Thread: Re: Six player, mediocre game.

Dave — 2006-11-03T18:55:17+00:00

Spielguy wrote:
I'll try to limit it to three or four players in the future.

Yeah, that's pretty much the established consensus.

Try my four-player partnership variant some time (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/5843). It's my group's favorite way to play it (and one of our favorite four-player card games, along with Die Sieben Siegel), and the simple rule addition adds more options and suspense to the game.

Thread: Six player, mediocre game.

Spielguy — 2006-11-03T17:46:55+00:00

We had six players so I brought out Katzenjammer Blues. I had played it three times previously, with two, three and four players. Everyone else was new to the game. I explained scoring, bidding and winning conditions and we were off.

The game lasted six bidding rounds. With six players that was very short. Basically everyone won a bid and a chance to meld. I was the last to meld and even though I melded fours there was only one mouse left.

We were all pretty uninspired. Two players tied for the most Jokers at 3 and had their score of five mice wiped out. I had one mouse and two jokers. The other thirteen mice were spread almost evenly among the other three players. The player with five mice won the game.

We had not even gone through half of the deck. Thirteen of the Jokers were in our hands or on the table. The game was extremely fast and disappointing. There were a few things that led to this:

1. The jokers came out quickly.
2. We probably underbid. It certainly didn't feel like it at the time but we made it easy for everyone to meld.
3. The auction cards were plentiful. We had one auction with two cards and all the others were 3-5 cards out.
4. We played with six players. I'm unlikely to do that again.

The game is certainly enjoyable but with the frequency I play it I'm going to be careful when pulling it out. I'll try to limit it to three or four players in the future.

Thread: Re: Katz Blues: Underrated, Misunderstood...and very, very good

Sexy Amy — 2006-10-10T14:44:17+00:00

Wow ! I totally agree that this is an underrated, misunderstood game. And it's so good to realize that I am not alone in the world. Thanks for letting everyone know (again) about this wonderful game.

Thread: Katz Blues: Underrated, Misunderstood...and very, very good

Larry Levy — 2006-10-10T03:11:40+00:00

(NOTE: This is one of the first reviews I ever wrote. Subsequent to my writing it, it became obvious that many people did not share my enthusiasm for Katzenjammer Blues and I feel the principal reason is that they were playing with too many. Unlike what I wrote back then, today I would never play this game with more than four people and would prefer three or less. I think it's marvelous with two and all indications are it's just as good with three. I think the fact that this is usually played with too many explains its criminally low Geek rating. Anyway, here's my review as originally written.)

Like a child with his nose pressed against the candy store window, I have enviously read the accounts of Reiner Knizia's many game creations. As glowing review piled upon glowing review, I yearned to sample from the master's handiwork myself. Alas, the tastes of my gaming group are strictly American: any game that doesn't involve some epic objective, such as taking over the world either by force or by credit card, might as well be Candyland. And any contest that takes less than two hours is automatically derided as a beer and pretzels pastime. So there has been much resistance to the ideas of Herr Knizia. Even my copy of the highly acclaimed Modern Art lies languishing on the shelf.

Thankfully, I have finally breached this iron wall. I have introduced one of Knizia's latest efforts, Katzenjammer Blues, to my hidebound group. The experiment was successful and I can only hope that more of the gentlemen's titles will find their way to our gaming table. But before I go any further, I should probably acquaint you with the rules to the game in question.

Katzenjammer Blues (which I will cleverly refer to hereafter as KB) is a card game in which the players attempt to assemble quartets of blues-playing pussycats. These musical troupes are awarded mice for their playing skill. This bizarre theme has no real bearing on the game, which is fine with me. The game comes with 24 mice, which must be separated prior to play, and a deck of 90 cards. The deck consists of Ones, Twos, Threes, Fours, Fives, and Jokers, 15 of each type. Each card displays a feline musician. There are no suits.

The object is to have the most mice at game's end. All 24 mice are used in the five and six player games; only 20 mice are used with four or fewer players. Each player is dealt six cards. One of the players is chosen to be the first "bandleader".

Every turn of the game plays in the same fashion. The bandleader exposes cards from the stock until he gets two cards of the same rank or until he turns a Joker. Thus, if he turned a 3, 1, 4, and 3, he would stop. If a Joker is turned, every player draws a new card from the stock.

The players now bid for the exposed cards. Players can only bid cards in their hands. Bids have the following rank: the lowest bid is one 1, followed by one 2, one 3, one 4, one 5, two different cards (for example, a 3 and a 5), two 1s, two 2s, two 3s, two 4s, two 5s, three different, three 1s, three 2s, and so on. The auction begins with the player to the bandleader's left and continues clockwise. Each player must either make a higher bid or pass, which eliminates him from the auction. After all the players but one have passed, the remaining player shows the bid cards from his hand, discards them, and takes the exposed cards into his hand.

After a player wins an auction, he has the option of melding. Melds consist of exactly four cards of the same rank. The player shows the meld, discards them, and takes as many mice from the pot as the rank of the cards. A player can make as many melds as he wishes. Whether or not the player melds, he becomes the next bandleader and starts another auction by exposing more cards from the stock. The game ends when either all the mice are taken or when the stock is exhausted.

I haven't mentioned Jokers so far and they're a key element of the game. Jokers can be substituted for a card of any rank, in either bids or melds. However, when a Joker is played, it is not discarded but placed in a dead pile in front of the player. At the end of the game, the players take any Jokers remaining in their hands and add them to their Joker stack. Each player counts up the Jokers in his stack and (wait for it, here comes the famous Knizia twist) the player or players with the most Jokers must subtract five mice from their score. To help avoid that fate, a player winning an auction during the game may discard a group of four Jokers from his hand. These Jokers yield him no mice, but they are not counted against his Joker total either. The player with the most mice wins the game.

All of the games of KB we've played were with two or three players. This is a little unfortunate, since the game is likely aimed at a larger crowd. However, our games played just fine. The luck element is present, but not abnormally so. It's more of a case of arranging your hand to handle as many possible outcomes as possible. I have little doubt that skilled players would win the vast majority of games over average opponents.

The first thing we discovered after playing KB is that it isn't just another bidding game. The cards you hold affect the way that you bid. This adds flavor to the auction process. It also means you can avoid that most dreaded of creatures, the Minimal Raiser. (Example: "I bid $25" "$26!" "Okay, $50" "$51!", with homicide as the inevitable result.) It's only a little more painful to bid an extra dollar, but it can be a lot more painful to bid "Three 1s" rather than "Three Different". This means it's important to get that Three Different bid in early, lest someone else bid it and put you in a bind.

In addition to such tactical considerations, strategic decisions must also be made. There are a number of possible routes to a win. The most obvious is to grab enough mice that your opponents can't beat you even if you used the most Jokers. (In the 20 mice game, the magic number is 13 mice--do the math.) Another strategy is to get a couple of quick melds down using very few Jokers and hope whoever comes in higher gets stuck with the Joker penalty. In a game with a lot of players you can go for an early strike and hope it holds up, but this is risky, since melding greatly reduces your ability to bid.

As we grew more experienced, nuances of play began to emerge--just like they're supposed to in a Knizia design. Using a few Jokers early in the game can make your opponents more aggressive with their Joker play, so that must be taken into consideration. Battle tested players tend to be more patient, often waiting until the last few turns to make their melds. You think less in terms of immediate melds than in the long term goal. You probably won't meld those four 2s in your hand but will try to use them to garner more valuable cards. And all this is tempered by the uncertainty of what cards will appear next.

The last game we played, a two-player affair, was a tense, grueling struggle. We were immediately making the highest possible non-painful bid for cards. Our evaluation skills had increased to the point that the gains from a winning auction were incremental at best. It was like climbing a mountain one inch at a time. The game approached its end with no melds having been made, each player unable to pull the trigger for fear of letting his opponent grab the remaining cards cheaply for an easy win. The melding decisions were agonizingly close, you were only a card away, but the bidding was so tight that you just couldn't gain enough of an advantage from an auction. Finally, it came down to the last auction. I had the first bid. If I could win the auction with six 4s (a very high bid), I could meld six mice, take the Joker penalty, and win 1-0. I could bid as much as six 5s, but the meld would only be five, and that would mean a draw. Since I dislike kissing Vince Lombardi's sister, I went for the gold and bid my 4s. After some frantic calculation, my opponent came up with a six 5 bid and still had enough for a win. You can't get much closer to the wire than that. A great game!

Another attraction of KB is that it should appeal to a wide variety of players. The rules are simple enough for older kids, making this a fine family game. Beer and pretzel gamers should enjoy it as a fluffy bidding contest, while serious gamers can use it as a cerebral filler. The English translation of the rules is clear and straightforward, thanks to the usual fine efforts of Herr Knizia and Kevin Jacklin. Unlike some Knizia designs, it is quite affordable, which is appropriate since we are essentially dealing with a card game. I believe the game can be picked up for considerably less in Europe.

I had to wait a long time to finally sample a Reiner Knizia game, but I wasn't disappointed. I don't think you'll be either. Recommended.

Thread: Re: General Comment

fmoros — 2006-09-14T00:45:38+00:00

just an idea: (I am not trying to say the game is better like we played it, but you can try it)

We started playing the game yesterday for first time (3-player), and in order to simplify things and get us to learn the mechanics of the game, we decided to ignore the rule of scoring -5 for jokers. So joker were always good, and we had a clear and single target on the game.

It worked great and we really liked (I loved) it.

(Yes, having no -5 for jokers, the winner may be known half way of the game , then you can declare that player the winner)

happy games!!

fer

Thread: Re: More bidding questions...

fmoros — 2006-09-11T03:33:00+00:00

"I had to think for a while to figure out what you meant. If you're at a real action, and bid $5, then someone bids $6, and you finally win with $7... you don't give up $12, now do you? The winning bid is simply the final one, which must be greater than the one before it."

I can see why you are surprised at my lack of know-how....I interpreted the whole bid wrongly, I was putting the cards down instead calling the bid. That is why I did not understand if you were adding cards or setting a new bid.
Thanks to your explanation, now it is all clear to me, and the game is neater.

was I the only one who did not get the bidding system right?
fer

Thread: Re: More bidding questions...

orangeblood — 2006-09-10T04:47:46+00:00

fmoros wrote:

It is strange that this game has very good reviews along with very low reviews, even some players suggest the game is broken.
It appears to me that some people are playing the game in a different way than others.

I think it's more that people don't understand/appreciate the intricacies rather than playing by different rules.

From the rules, it is clear that a player can re-bid.
What is not clear at all, is if your re-bid is a raising bid (you add cards to your previous bid) or a total different bid (independent from your first bid)

I had to think for a while to figure out what you meant. If you're at a real auction, and bid $5, then someone bids $6, and you finally win with $7... you don't give up $12, now do you? The winning bid is simply the final one, which must be greater than the one before it.

I bid one "2"
My opponent bids two "2's"

If i have another two "2's" in my hand, I put them down raising my bid to three "2's" ? (that is my previous bid of one card + my last bid of two cards)

Yes. Also, you don't actually have to put down cards until you win the auction, you just speak your bid.

This is actually an excellent two-player game, and of course works well with more. Enjoy, and feel free to ask more questions!

Thread: More bidding questions...

fmoros — 2006-09-07T04:43:31+00:00

It is strange that this game has very good reviews along with very low reviews, even some players suggest the game is broken.
It appears to me that some people are playing the game in a different way than others.

The English translation leaves some parts unclear. Specially the bidding process.

I just had a play test yesterday. 2 players.

Bidding process:

From the rules, it is clear that a player can re-bid.
What is not clear at all, is if your re-bid is a raising bid (you add cards to your previous bid) or a total different bid (independent from your first bid)

Example:

I bid one "2"
My opponent bids two "2's"

If i have another two "2's" in my hand, I put them down raising my bid to three "2's" ? (that is my previous bid of one card + my last bid of two cards)

--------

If the answer is YES (you actually raise the previous bid)
then it is logical that you pay out all your cards for the lot being auctioned.

But if the anser is NO, (you dont raise bid, you do a new bid)
and you win the lot, what do you pay for the lot?
only the last bid or both the last bid and the previous bid?
It seems strange to me that you discard both bids, because the first one was not a winning bid but only the second one.

Any experienced players can help?
Thanks for your insight and happy games

fer
skorea

Thread: Re: what happens with the bid cards?

fmoros — 2006-09-01T03:09:56+00:00

ssmooth wrote:
Only the winning bidder pays!

Hard to imagine trying to make the game work otherwise.

This was a big favorite of ours for three players about five years ago, but a big mess when we tried it for five or six players! Consider yourself warned.

Why a game that works so well with 3 can turn into so bad with 6?
(i have not played the game yet)

thanks for your insight
fer
sk

Thread: Re: what happens with the bid cards?

fmoros — 2006-08-31T09:45:23+00:00

thanks for the tip,

it is very good then, because sometimes no other gamers turn up to the session and only the 2 hardcore gamers stay...
So -according to your comments and others- it seems we just found a good alternative to the MAMMA MIA, or the TOO MANY COOKS for two players

cheers
fer
sk

Thread: Re: what happens with the bid cards?

ssmooth — 2006-08-31T06:53:28+00:00

Only the winning bidder pays!

Hard to imagine trying to make the game work otherwise.

This was a big favorite of ours for three players about five years ago, but a big mess when we tried it for five or six players! Consider yourself warned.

Thread: what happens with the bid cards?

fmoros — 2006-08-31T06:36:51+00:00

The winner loose the bid cards, that is clear.
What about the other no-winning bidders? do they keep the cards they bid or do they discard them?

thanks and happy games
fer
sk

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shawn_low — 2006-03-24T02:33:07+00:00

Scan of the Mice Tokens (Unpunched).

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itiswon — 2006-02-17T13:48:14+00:00

blues cards

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itiswon — 2006-02-17T13:44:54+00:00

joker singer

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itiswon — 2006-02-17T13:41:37+00:00

various cats artists

Thread: Re: A superb card game.

Larry Levy — 2006-01-30T21:34:48+00:00

I agree, Robert, KB is an excellent game. You ought to try it with just two players. You'll find it's a very different game than the one you describe. Once the players become familiar with the strategy, bids tend to be very close in value to the offering, so that an incremental, step-by-step approach is necessary. This makes the game extraordinarily tense. Scoring is also delayed, since it decreases your bidding ability so much. I find it to be a very intense, very challenging two-player game. I highly recommend it!

Thread: A superb card game.

Kobra1 — 2006-01-29T16:53:06+00:00

Katzenjammer Blues

The Components (Bits):
For a basic card game, this is a class act. Like typical Rio Grande imports, the cards are extremely high quality, and the mouse chits are thick and well illustrated. The box is very compact, and uses the normal opening system of most games rather than the cheap card flap of most American card games.

The Setup and Rules:
The rules are printed on decent semi-gloss paper in full colour, and are concise and easily understood with no translation errors that I can find other than a ambiguously worded sentence. But given this is only one sentence, I can’t fault it much for that. Setup is rather simple, each person is dealt a six card hand, a draw pile is placed face down on the table, and cards are turned over until the same number comes up twice, or a joker shows up.

The Theme:
I have to admit I love the theme of this game. Despite Knizia’s reputation for pasted on and weak themes, I actually think this game has a fun and interesting theme that carries it. Each card has a unique illustration of a cat playing an instrument or singing, and some parody words of a famous song. Something important to note here is that each card has a different illustration, quite impressive when you consider most games use the same overused illustrations for most of the same suits. For example the person that won the previous bid becomes the “Band Leader” and presents the next batch of cards for bidding. When you “Meld”, you meld “Quartets”, which fit into the musical theme of the game. All very fitting, and well done in my opinion!

The Gameplay:
This is a bidding and melding game, or a Rummy variant with bidding. When the game begins, cards are turning face up from the draw pile until the same card is drawn twice, or a joker is drawn. If a joker is drawn each player immediately takes one card from the draw pile and puts it in his hand. Bidding them commences on the cards on display, and you must use existing cards in your hand to bid on the cards on the table. All bids must either beat the number of cards of the previous players bid, or match the number of cards but beat the number. For example someone can say “One Card”, which could be any number card they want, the next person could say “Two Cards” and would now control the bid. The following player could either say “Three Cards” or “Two 1’s” which would beat the previous bidder. This goes around the table until all players pass, at which point the winner places his bidding cards in the face up discard pile, and retrieves the cards he won. For the next round that player is no the band leader, and flips the next cards for bidding, and bids first. A winning bidder has the option to meld four of the same number cards into a “Quartet”, and claim the number of mice equal to the number on his cards. For example if he melds four 4’s, then he would claim 4 mice, and lay the meld on the table infront of him. Jokers may be used in melds OR for bidding, but the person with the most jokers at the end of the game loses 5 mice. The only way to discard jokers is to meld them into a quartet, and declare them as “Junk” and they are tossed out. However if you use jokers for bidding, then they are left infront of you on the table and will count against your final tally. Hence, the person relying too much on jokers will likely be burned at the end. This continues around the table until the mice are depleted, at which point the winner is established after the jokers are factored and the game is over.

The Depth and Tactics:
With many Knizia games, on the surface they appear fairly basic, but after a few sessions the agonizing decisions and deep gameplay always become evident. Katzenjammers certainly doesn’t break that trend. The gameplay in this game is deceptively simple but as previously mentioned, offers the typical Knizia agonizing decisions at every turn! Do you rely on jokers hoping someone has more at the end, or do you purge them giving up your post powerful tools? Do you use a particular set of cards for bidding, or do you save them for melds? These are difficult decisions that must be carefully considered during a game. Do you bluff, and bid up on cards you don’t want to help deplete the other player’s cards, risking that they might pass and you’d be stuck with them? Do you meld early, losing valuable bidding cards, or do you try and hold out, hoping it won’t be too late? Katzenjammer Blues is loaded with these types of decisions, and is extremely exciting and tactical for a fast playing tiny card game!

Summary:
Katzenjammer Blues is one of my favourite card games, and perhaps one of my favourite games of all time. With three or four players that have a good concept of the tactics, this game becomes a turbo speed power struggle that defies explanation. The mice go VERY quickly, and the level of tension builds up to a tremendous level as the game rapidly progresses and players begin to form their melds – sometimes as quick as 10 minutes – it is THAT fast. A nice quote I saw on BGG says; “Katzenjammer Blues starts in the middle and ends before you're ready.” That’s a more eloquent way of saying that the game plays in an extremely rapid fashion, and offers some incredibly intense gameplay in a short period of time. There is no other game in my collection quite like this and I absolutely love it, it all comes together to form a very impressive game. It is out of print now, and fairly difficult to find, do yourself a favour and find a copy before it is too late.

Kobra
www.boardgamespiel.com

Thread: Re: is it possible to break this game?

Kobra1 — 2006-01-27T04:01:04+00:00

Short answer: No, its not possible to break it.

Image

Kobra1 — 2006-01-26T06:27:50+00:00

The complete box contents.

Thread: Re: Who's the Bandleader?

orangeblood — 2005-12-27T06:25:58+00:00

The winning bidder is indeed the bandleader.

Thread: Re: Who's the Bandleader?

Verkisto — 2005-12-21T16:37:47+00:00

I don't have the rules in front of me, but we've always played that the person who won the bid is the next bandleader. It creates a weird sort of tension.

Thread: Who's the Bandleader?

Christine Biancheria — 2005-12-21T14:54:56+00:00

The bandleader is the person who lays out the cards at the beginning of each turn before bidding begins. The player to the bandleader's left starts the bidding.

Fine, but does this rotate each turn, or is the person who won the bid the bandleader for the next turn?

Help.

Thread: Encore! Encore!

seppo21 — 2005-10-02T22:22:43+00:00

Second Game: Katzenjammer Blues

Our first game of this was so quick and pleasant that we decided to play again. This time, I figured that if I could get enough chips then it would not matter if I got the most Jokers. Therefore, I decided to try to get as many Jokers as possible. Oddly, I was not able to do this. In this game, there were much wilder bids made for the available cards. In fact, there were quite a few where more cards were paid out than were received.

This time around, Maria was again the first person to earn some points, picking up total of 4 chips. Matt then made a big push to get some points. He spent a lot to pick up a couple of five point cards, which gave him his initial five-point meld. He then spent even more. In fact, he spent so much that he was left with a single card in his hand. At least he was able to pick up another five points. In the process he had also used enough Jokers to put him ahead of me. However, I still had not picked up any points. I tried really, really hard to win the next couple of auctions, which would have allowed me to pick up the final six points (and therefore the win if Matt picked up the five point penalty). Christine beat me for both of them. The second time, she melded for five points. The effectively removed me from the game. I decided to just sit out the rest of the game and let the three of them fight for it. Strangely, there wasn't much of a fight as Christine was allowed to win the bid relatively easily. Since she was able to meld again, she did so, and took the last chip. Matt did indeed pick up the Joker penalty, resulting in a win for Christine.

Final Result:

Christine -- 6
Maria -- 5
Matt -- 4
Stephen -- 0

In hindsight (again) I suppose I could have bid higher on some of those final bids. I would not have been able to win immediately, but I might have been able to put together a win a little bit later. Of course, now, we'll never know. Still, it was a pleasant enough little game. There is a fair amount of tension in the game as you must win bids in order to meld, but if you bid too much and meld, you won't have enough cards to do anything else for the rest of the game. In addition, it is really quick. The second game lasted about 20 minutes as well.

Thread: A one, and a two, . . .

seppo21 — 2005-10-02T22:22:19+00:00

First Game: Katzenjammer Blues

I had picked out a handful of card games that I wanted to try to play tonight. This first one is a Knizia game that I picked up off the BGG Marketplace last year but have not yet managed to play yet. In the game, players bid cards in their hand for a group of face-up cards. They may then meld quartets to earn from one to five mouse chips. In a four-player game, there are only 20 of these chips, so the points can disappear in a hurry, which ends the game. There is one other catch, when the game is over, the player with the most Jokers in hand and melded loses five mouse chips. Ouch!

In this first game, we all seemed pretty tentative in our bidding for the cards available. Since you lose the cards you bid when you win (except jokers, which remain face-up in front of you), it should be pretty intuitive that you do not want to bid more cards than you receive unless it really helps you. So for most of this game, bids were generally of only two cards with an occasional three card bid. Maria was the first person to score, melding a group of ones, which earned her a single mouse chip. After this, Matt was able to play the next meld to earn five mouse chips. Following this, there was something of a battle to take some of the Jokers that turned up. Both Maria and Christine were able to meld a quartet of Jokers. This is important as you can choose to either take from one to five mouse chips (and keep the Jokers) or take no mouse chips and discard the jokers. This is the only way to get rid of jokers. I was trying to do the same since I had a few in my hand. During this time, Matt was able to meld another set for five chips. At this point, there was no chance to catch him -- unless you were Maria. I figured the only chance I had to win was to take the last nine chips and for Matt to have the most Jokers -- a true long shot. At any rate, since he was bidding on the group I needed for this, I went for it. I was able to get the final nine chips (via two melds). Unfortunately, I ended up with the most Jokers, which still left me in second place.

Final Result:

Matt -- 10
Stephen -- 4
Maria -- 1
Christine -- 0

After my first winning bid, I held a meld of threes that I wanted to turn in. I held onto them and eventually did turn them in. However, looking back, I figure it might have been better to break up that set in order to win some of the other available sets. This is what Matt did in order to set up the two melds of five that he had -- and he won the game. The need for getting rid of those excess Jokers was also amply demonstrated. In addition, it was quick. Our total game time was 20 minutes.

Thread: Re: is it possible to break this game?

astroglide — 2005-09-17T17:47:58+00:00

Facing such a situation, the solution is to over pay on a small auction (say 2 or 3 cards)

but this is the kind of action that puts you in "the situation". having less cards than your opponent is a very bad thing.

meld the best you can

this is another way of allowing your opponent to have more cards than you...

If enough players do this, the card hog may have a hard time cashing in

i was referring to a 2-player game in the original post, but i think the 'gin strategy' could apply to multi-player games as well.

and is probably getting the jester penalty

as also mentioned in the original post, when you play this strategy you usually assume that you will take the jester penalty. you still only need to play 13 points in one turn to win.

Thread: Re: is it possible to break this game?

rdore — 2005-09-17T09:10:03+00:00

Facing such a situation, the solution is to over pay on a small auction (say 2 or 3 cards), meld the best you can, and avoid the joker pain. Usually grabbing 3 or 4 points will at least put you at average for a given round. If enough players do this, the card hog may have a hard time cashing in, and is probably getting the jester penalty.

Thread: 2 for the price of one

Spielguy — 2005-09-15T22:11:31+00:00

Joe suggested Katzenjammer Blues, which was new to myself and the other two players and we sat down and played it twice. The gameplay was interesting and quick and it becomes yet another game that I will need to search out and try to find. Quick to play, interesting choices, and a good game to play with my casual gaming relatives.

The first game was quick enough. I soon found myself with too many Jokers, most of which were dealt to me. We had a hard time finding the right amount to bid and almost let a single Joker go by. I had some ones brewing in my hand but I didn't really understand that they are best used to get other cards since they would only yield one mouse.

At the end of the game I had collected 8 mice but I had to lose 5 because I had the most Jokers. Sam won with 5 mice. Joe had 4, and John -2 (we had tied for most Jokers). I should have played a bit more conservative and avoided one of the Jokers I got on a winning bid.

The second game went even quicker and we had just gone past the half point in the deck. I was building a hand of 4s and 5s but I had two Jokers in my hand. It looked like the game was close to ending with Sam with two mice, John with 5, and I had none but eight mice remained. I bid for and won a hand that had enough to let me end with fours and fives and capture all eight mice.

The problem was the hand came with another Joker which gave me three. I had hoped that either Sam or John had four jokers (with a few hidden still in the hand) which would give me the win. If John had three Jokers we would have tied. But they each had two so I had to lose five mice. John won with 5 mice.

Thread: Two first-time players

ctalbot — 2005-09-08T15:36:48+00:00

My girlfriend, Jacquie, and I played our first two games of Katzenjammer Blues over the Labour Day weekend. In the first game, we missed a very simple rule that ended up making the game really quick, but I think we got the rules right in the second game.

In the first game, we took four mice out and then shuffled and dealt the cards. We flipped over the first batch of cards and started bidding. However, what we missed was the rule that stated you have to discard the cards that you bid. With this in mind, whoever had the best hand was the one who was able to pick up the cards. More often than not, Jacquie grabbed the cards and made meld after meld. It was only when she didn't need a card on the table that I was able to pick up and try to meld cards. At the end of this first game, I had used more jokers, so the total number of mice I had was reduced to about three. Jacquie won. It only took about fifteen minutes to play.

After that, we took a quick lunch break and then I skimmed through the rules, catching the rule that says the cards you bid to win the cards on the table are discarded. Aha! That made more sense.

We began our second game, and immediately the tactics became a bit more intense. Was it worth throwing out a pair of twos to complete that meld of threes? The use of jokers in the first game also made us realize just how much of a pain they actually were, and how they seemed to end up hindering rather than helping.

Jacquie managed to get rid of a bunch of jokers through a zero-point meld, but she had to use two jokers during the game and lay them in front of her. I managed to keep my joker sum to one, and I was lucky enough to meld off four jokers right before the end.

The second game took maybe about twenty to thirty minutes to complete, and I managed to win only because Jacquie used more jokers and had to throw out five mice.

I'm not a big fan of more traditional card games. Katzenjammer is slightly traditional, but I did enjoy it. Jacquie, who loves traditional card games, was less thrilled with it. Even though I think it would make a good filler game, I have a feeling Katzenjammer Blues is going to be collecting dust going forward.

Thread: Re: is it possible to break this game?

astroglide — 2005-06-27T18:48:22+00:00

Both players need to understand that if they fall behind early in hand size by any significant amount, it will be tough to compete. Just gaining a one-card advantage, as you indicate above, should not be cause for a landslide. It was more likely poor bidding thereafter from your opponent.

it mostly involved me bidding equal amounts for auctions. if two 3s came up, i would bid 2 3s for it. etc. if somebody has the cards to pull this off, it's exceptionally difficult to work around. a singular card advantage can be leveraged into bigger ones if you slowly modify your hand for bigger 'different card' spreads. if you've got advantage and you're able to bid 4 cards for 5 or 6, it seems like it's kind of over at that point. it seems the only way is to get lucky with joker pulls.

Thread: Re: is it possible to break this game?

orangeblood — 2005-06-23T04:04:30+00:00

>>i played a game last night where i won an early auction that gave me a card advantage (3 cards for 2 or something along those lines), and from that point forward it was a landslide. <<<

Both players need to understand that if they fall behind early in hand size by any significant amount, it will be tough to compete. Just gaining a one-card advantage, as you indicate above, should not be cause for a landslide. It was more likely poor bidding thereafter from your opponent.

Rex

Thread: Re: is it possible to break this game?

ropearoni4 — 2005-06-09T22:26:41+00:00

I think the key to this one is that you can not make early melds, or you will lose from then on. I like the bidding stuff, but the rest of the game fails. It need a house variant to cover a reason to make melds before the end of the game comes around, otherwise no hand limit implies just keep a large hand and take all the auctions from then on if someone is stupid and melds too early. Not for a filler if it is a bunch of newbies or it doesn't fly as they think early melds is good.

Thread: 2 player game

astroglide — 2005-05-20T06:04:42+00:00

as my general article and previous session reports state, i find this game still amusing but it's mostly an academic pursuit of how to solve the game. or figure out what we're missing when we wonder how this ever got past playtesting. in this one we did the typical 'always deny card advantage' strategy. i ended up with the lion's share of the jokers, nobody had laid anything off and there was 1 card left in the deck with a joker for auction.

it turns out my opponent could have won for a few turns but was just seeing what would happen. i ended up bidding 6 3s using 3 jokers in the process to prevent him from winning the auction, laid off 4 jokers as blanks, and hoped that he would have more jokers in his hand. he didn't, so he won the game zero to negative five. obviously need to count how many jokers are in the deck to fully work the experiment.

Thread: 3 player

astroglide — 2005-05-20T06:01:44+00:00

played a 3 player game of what has become the 'test to see how broken this game is' game. the 2 of us who are interested in this angle quickly outlined the rules and went to work. we do think it's broken and that at a high level the game more or less would come down to initial draws and draws off of joker auctions. never let somebody get a card advantage, try to prevent numeric advantages. if you can get a card advantage yourself, it seems all too easy to run away with the game and otherwise it's a crapshoot.

Thread: 2 player session report

astroglide — 2005-05-17T22:52:33+00:00

took an early lead in cards with a 3-cards-for-2 bid, and proceeded to run away with the game. i would only allow my opponent to get equal cards for his bids (2 cards for 2 cards, 3 cards for 3 cards, etc) and i would even bid face value to prevent any numeric gains (he bids 33 for 44, i bid 44 for 44). played 14 points at once using jokers to lock up the game. in a 2-player game you can't lose if you get 13 mice, because the -5 gives you 8 points and the most mice your opponent can make is 7. the game still intrigues me, but i think it might be broken.

Thread: is it possible to break this game?

astroglide — 2005-05-17T18:50:56+00:00

i've heard chat of good/bad draws etc. i've played a handful of 2-player games with this now, and it seems like this game is potentially breakable. i played a game last night where i won an early auction that gave me a card advantage (3 cards for 2 or something along those lines), and from that point forward it was a landslide.

i would outbid my opponent in 95% of the auctions, never allowing them to get an advantage in cards and often bidding equal amounts (e.g. 2 fours for 2 fours) just to prevent any numeric gains. ended up playing 14 points in one turn and closing the game up. if you play 13 points, you have reached the point where it is impossible to lose because even if you lose on jokers your 8 points will beat the max of 7 that your opponent can have in a 2-player game.

it seems like optimal strategy is to never lay off so that you have more bidding weapons, and win the game in one turn gin style. i don't mind that sort of play, but it's abusive if a superior draw or a singular card gain auction can be built into an unstoppable force. i still find the game very interesting/entertaining though, and would like to keep playing it just to find 'the' strategy if the game is solvable/broken.

thoughts based on limited plays, would love to hear others' thoughts.

Thread: Re: End Game Question

astroglide — 2005-05-16T18:30:24+00:00

i would say immediately. suppose there are 2 cards left in the deck, and the bandleader flips up a joker. in a 2-player game, only 1 person would be able to draw a card. allowing the auction to take place where one person is at a card disadvantage would be uncool.

Image

orangeblood — 2005-03-07T16:53:26+00:00

Full lineup

Image

orangeblood — 2005-03-07T16:53:26+00:00

Waiting to meld

Image

orangeblood — 2005-03-07T16:53:26+00:00

Many mice

Thread: Session Report

jlowe — 2005-02-06T16:33:28+00:00

The Flat Earth Game Votaries met at Keith and Michelle's house for the weekly session.

ROLL CALL: Chris, Dale, Keith, Michelle, Jason

We chose Katzenjammer Blues for a light opener. Keith sat out to watch the little one, leaving Michelle, Dale, Chris, and I. This was the first playing for Michelle, so we quickly went over the rules before starting.

I was dealt three Jokers in the first round, so I was eager to make a throw-away meld and get rid of those. I was a little too eager, as I bid for a lone Joker early and melded them right away. Unfortunately this left me with not much of a bidding hand, and I don't think I won a bid the rest of the round. Dale was the first to meld, grabbing three mice early. Michelle may have been playing for the first time, but she played like a veteran. She won a critical bid and made two melds for 9 mice. This left only 8 mice left in the game, meaning Chris and I couldn't catch her if she could avoid the -5 mice penalty for most Jokers. Dale ended up with the most Jokers, so Michelle won the first round.

I still couldn't avoid the Jokers in the second round. I managed to meld for 5 mice, but I kept getting Jokers on the blind draws. I tried in vain to grab enough cards with Jokers to meld them out of play, but Chris outbid me at a critical point and melded for the last mice. Dale ended up with the win, as I edged him out in Joker count and spared him from the -5 mice penalty.

In the third and final round, I thought I had a shot at winning the round. I held back until fairly late then grabbed a bid to meld for 8 mice total. It looked like I had the win, but I had used a couple of Jokers in my quest for those 8 mice. Unfortunately the Jokers were my downfall yet again. Michelle and I tied for most Jokers, leaving me with just 3 mice and Michelle with 0. Chris pulled out the win for round 3 and just barely surpassed Michelle for the overall mice tally. Michelle would have won overall if she could have avoided the Joker penalty in the final round.

Katzenjammer Blues is a light game that I appreciate more with each play. The game is fast, tense and a lot of fun!

Thread: Re:End Game Question

rplea — 2005-01-03T20:24:09+00:00

gdozzi (#74224),
I would say immediately, but in any case I prefer to play until the last mouse has been taken.

Thread: End Game Question

gdozzi — 2005-01-02T06:38:38+00:00

Does the game end immediately when the last card is drawn, or does an auction occur if it is a joker or matches an already face-up card?

Thread: Re:Partnership Rules

gwalla — 2004-12-27T21:52:31+00:00

Sounds like the same rules could be used for a 6-player partnership variant (2 vs. 2 vs. 2). Something similar could possibly be used for 3 vs. 3 partnership play.

Thread: Session Report

jlowe — 2004-04-28T17:17:27+00:00

After San Marco we decided to finish up the night with a few games of Katzenjammer Blues. Now here is a game that hasn't hit the table in a number of years! I've always liked Katzenjammer Blues as a light, fast bidding game with interesting decisions, but it tended to fall flat in the past when I introduced it. I was eager to try it again, and Chris and Jim didn't object.

Since it had been so long since we'd played, we quickly reviewed the rules and started in. During the first game Jim and I each grabbed a bunch of mice early, but we both ended up tied for the most Jokers. Chris grabbed just enough mice at the end of the round to tie me. Least Jokers breaks the tie, so Chris came from behind to capture the win.

Game 1 Score: Chris 4 (tiebreaker win), Jason 4, Jim 2

During the second game I was stuck debating whether to bid the three Jokers I was dealt early. I ended up being conservative with them, which meant I wasn't bidding much during the game. Chris went for an all-out strategy of landing the most mice even though he would have the most Jokers. Jim snared the last mouse at the end of the game, and that was just enough to tie Chris for the most mice and give him the win on the tiebreaker.

Game 2 Score: Jim 6 (tiebreaker win), Chris 6, Jason 3

In the third game, I melded early and grabbed 7 mice. Things were looking good, until Chris bid two 1's on a single Joker. A bit of an odd bid usually, but it payed off big-time. Chris used that Joker to make a throw-away meld of four Jokers and then melded 4's and 5's to grab the last 9 mice. Jim had the most Jokers, so that left Chris with the win.

Game 3 Score: Chris 9, Jason 7, Jim -1

Everyone enjoyed Katzenjammer Blues. Interesting bidding and melding decisions. We played three games in less than an hour, so it doesn't overstay its welcome. If anything, the game ends before you're prepared for it! This often overlooked game is a quality filler.

Thread: Session Report

batman — 2004-01-15T21:06:02+00:00

Before the Wrights left we played a game of Katzemjammer Blues. I hadn't played this before so I was unprepared for the onslaught of the jokers. Jokers in this game are a double-edged sword. They act as wild cards but they also hurt the person who uses the most of them. I managed to draw quite a few Jokers throughout the game. I had the opportunity to discard several of them but I didn't and that made the difference. I won the most mice but I had to give up most of them because of all of the jokers I had played. After the penalty it was Max, yes that's right, Max, who had the most mice. I learned the hard way to get rid of the jokers when you have the opportunity.

Thread: Re:General Comment

Corwyn59 — 2003-11-03T15:54:12+00:00

Larry Levy (#1432),

I agree to say you have to pay attention to the bid, but the two games i made were strange : the winner is known before the game end & nobody wants to take more jokers as the player who will have the penalty is already known...

I am missing something ? Even with the rule of spend jokers by quarters, i don't see how this game can work well ?

Thread: Session Report

clearclaw — 2003-09-29T12:55:57+00:00

We picked this up right before heading out for dinner as a quick
filler that wouldn't be too long for some player's approaching
starvation pangs, and long enough for the rest of us to finish getting
hungry. It met and exceeded all the requirements. Simple, light,
fast, amusing. Attractive artwork too. In an odd way it reminded me
of Coloretto, but without the negative scoring system or tight
feedback loop for card probability counters. It made for a fluffy and
cute filler game that hit the spot.

Unfortunately the end game descended into predictability due to there
being no way to rid your hand of jokers without bearing their cost. I
could have won the most mice at the cost of losing them to the jokers,
or I could have stalled. I stalled, and the game circled dryly with
players accumulating cards until one finally had a hand to finish and
take the majority in mice. I don't know if that pattern is typical of
Kartzenjammer Blues, but I wouldn't be surprised. That said, I'd love
to see a re-themed version that lost the too-cute cats and mice theme
(nice as the artwork is) and picked up pictures of the real jazz and
blues greats with brief bios or commentary on their music on the
cards. Then again, as a jazz and blues fan, I'm quite biased

Thread: Re:Session Report

John Greenwood — 2003-06-06T17:29:20+00:00

Dave (#9311),
Thanks for the rules clarification Dave. You were right, we forgot to count the jokers in our hands in the final talley.

I wish I could coax them into another playing by saying "Hey, we had a rule wrong! Let's try it again with the correct rule!" but I don't think it will happen.

The friends that I played this with are somewhat new to German-style games so Katzenjammer Blues with its auction elements probably didn't fit in their conception of what a card game "should" be. I have a feeling that some people in my regular gaming group would like it.

Thread: Re:Session Report

Dave — 2003-06-06T14:50:31+00:00

From the description of the first game, it seems that you might be playing the Joker rule wrong. You just don't count jokers that you played in bids and quartets, you also count jokers that are left in your hand.

In my group, there are many folks who really enjoy Katzenjammer Blues, both the original game and the partnership game. However, there are a couple for which the game fell really flat. Don't know why that is, but I feel your pain! As for their wish to play with more players, it really is best with 3 or 4 players.