Game: Power Grid - Korea/China

Thread: Re: Power Grid China Detailed Session Report

BakeliteTM — 2008-11-13T00:06:58+00:00

Great session report! I will be getting this expansion soon. thorndor wrote:
Although I did not lead ever turn, I made a decision early to not worry as much about turn order as I would in a standard game because one of the primary downsides of leading does not apply in China. In China, in the first two steps, all the plants available are known ahead of time. So, there is no disadvantage in having to offer a plant for auction first.

I think there is still a disadvantage if none of the plants are good. Even though the future market is known, there may not be a good one coming up that you want, so that you wouldn't want to bid on one of the others. I see your point, though, that there would be no chance of a high numbered plant coming up early.

Thread: Re: Question on playing China with new power plant cards

virre — 2008-11-06T16:54:45+00:00

Ponton wrote:
virre wrote:
But Powergrid is unplayable with the old deck

I guess you mean the old "Funkenschlag" deck. When we say "old deck" we're talking about the original "Power Grid" deck. Last year in Essen, there was a "new deck" released.

I am fully aware of the difference, I do indeed mean that the deck in our (the game club or what you should call it) power grid box was fully unplayable (and not as the money, from the wear and tear).

when the Essen release come and I played it and acctualy didn't think the game horriblie bad I was quite pleased.

And I am not alone in viewing the game this way.

but this is a disgression from the main issue which is, please let us know if we should make any changes when playing the game with the essen released deck (as we are about to setup right now for the Korea map for the third time with the Essen released deck)

Image

Toggy — 2008-11-05T03:46:26+00:00

End of game board

Thread: Rich wins on plant capacity in Phase 2 in cash-rich Korea game

Eric Brosius — 2008-11-03T01:06:02+00:00

POWER GRID [Korea]
(Eric, Anton, Charles, Walt, Rich)

No one else arrived during our game of No Thanks! and we were ready for some meatier fare. Walt recently purchased a copy of the Korea/China Power Grid expansion for the club, and we were ready to give it a spin. The Korea map is less "different" than the China map (in Korea there are two separate fuel markets, and you can use only one market each turn, but in China the first 26 plants come out in numerical order, eliminating the uncertainty of the power plant draw deck for much of the game,) so we decided to start there. We eliminated the northeastern section of the map, leaving 5 regions in play.

Walt started us off by auctioning the #05 hybrid, and he got it for face value (Dan often bids this plant up, but he wasn't in the game.) Rich put the #04 coal plant up for sale and got it for $6, a bit less than usual, as we weren't sure how the divided fuel market would affect coal prices. Anton then took the #06 trash plant, which went for list price as well, and Eric and Charles followed with the #07 and #03 in that order, all for list. I don't remember ever playing a 5-player game in which the #07 was the highest plant bought in Round 1, but that's what happened in this game.

Charles soon revealed why he bought the #03, as he built three cities (Seoul, Goyang and Incheon) even though he had power for only one. These cities are part of a connected mass in the center of the map with no connection costs between them, and he was willing to accept the position of "brightest bulb" in exchange for cheap early connections. Rich followed a similar course, connecting Samcheok and Donghae on the east coast although he, too, could only power one of them. Walt built just one city, Cheongju, a little south of Charles, and Anton opted for North Korea, connecting Nampo and Hwangju. Eric was the only player who could power as many as two cities, but by the time it was his turn to build there were already 8 connected cities, reducing his options. He built Suwon and Yongin, a cheap pair of cities just between Charles and Walt.

Charles needed a better plant for Round 2, but the options weren't all that attractive (especially since his cash had been drained by building three cities.) He put the #12 hybrid up for auction and Anton bid $13 to take it. Charles then took the #13 baby windmill to raise his capacity to 2 cities. Eric now bid on the #16 oil plant, and was surprised to get this relatively powerful early-game plant for list price. He had the #07 oil plant, so he would not face competition for oil purchases other than from Charles' #03, which was not likely to run for long. The #26 was sitting at the business end of the future market, but Rich couldn't afford to play another round with only the #04 plant, so he put the #10 coal plant up for auction. Walt gave it a wide berth and was rewarded when the #26 oil plant became available---it didn't take Walt long to snap that one up. We couldn't afford a lot of building in this round, but Walt added a second city in Daejeon, Rich crept west into Taeraek, and Eric grabbed Anyang, the 4th of the cheap city cluster Charles had started the game in.

Several attractive plants were visible at the start of Round 3. Eric looked at the #29, a nice cheap plant available in the current market. He then looked at the #31 and #32, which were available in the future market. He didn't want to give a cookie to an opponent, but he was also convinced someone would buy the #29 and figured he might as well let the #31 and #32 drop (if they were going to drop) while there were multiple bidders. Eric bought the #29 hybrid for $36 and the #31 coal plant, with its 6-city capacity, dropped. Charles put it up for auction and paid $39 for it. The #32, the oil version of the #31, now became available, and Rich put it up for auction. Much to the annoyance of Eric and Charles, Walt and Anton both passed, allowing Rich to get this valuable plant at list price. Walt already had the #26, so he wasn't up for a second costly plant, but we were surprised that Anton didn't want to take a shot at the #32. In the building phase Anton had some money left and built Haeju and Walt built Chungju, but the rest of us passed, having used our cash to purchase plants. We now had 3 cities each, so the turn order was determined by the power plants we owned.

In Round 4 Rich was brightest bulb on the strength of his #32 plant, and he liked the looks of the #34 nuclear plant, which can power 5 cities. One feature of the Korea map is the absence of uranium in the North Korean fuel market (at least they *claim* there's none!) This can make it tricky to run nuclear plants; you need to buy ahead if you want to have flexibility about which market you use next turn. Uranium was starting to get cheap, and there was no visible competition for it, so we bid enthusiastically and Rich had to pay $47 for the #34. This wasn't too much of a burden for him, because he had gotten the #32 cheaply, but it was still a significant outlay. Rich was also demonstrating a Power Grid principle: if you can buy several plants with similar numbers (as Rich bought the #32 and #34 in this game,) you can often keep the number on your highest plant to a relatively manageable number, moving you to the dim end of the turn order where you'd like to be. Rich's purchase dropped the #20 coal plant, with its 5-city capacity and 3-coal appetite, into the current market. Charles already had a hungry coal plant and didn't want another, so he passed. Eric was prepared to pay for this plant and deal with the cash shortage, but Anton really needed a plant by this point, and he took it at a cost of $31. The #20 often leads to (and participates in) coal shortages, but perhaps this would be less of an issue in Korea with the dual markets---we didn't know for sure. There were no attractive plants left in the current market, so Eric and then Walt proceeded to pass. Anton now built Pyongyang, the North Korean capital, to bring him to 4 cities, and Walt added two cities in Sangju and Wonju to reach 5, the perfect number for his #26 plant. Walt had been operating efficiently for several rounds and had the cash to spare. Eric was now hemmed in, so he built Gaesung, hopping over Charles, to reach 4. Charles and Rich did not build, staying at just 3 cities (even though they both had plants capable of powering 6 cities.)

When you see a lot of good plants early, as we did in this game, you can guess that there will be a barren stretch at some point. In the 5-player game all the plants are in play, so the lousy plants have to come out sooner or later. It was Round 5 and Walt still had only two plants, one of them the antiquated #05. He bought the #15 to increase his capacity by 3 cities, and no one even thought about bidding against him. This brought the #22 windmill into the game. It was late for such a small plant, but Eric bought it so he could power 6 cities for just one coal or oil, putting him in great position for the midgame stall. Oil was getting expensive and he didn't want to depend on the #16. Again, no one else bid against him, and after Walt and Eric bought plants, the other 3 players passed. We were starting to pile up the cash, but building was tentative again this round. Charles built east into Chuncheon, edging into Rich's area, but Rich decided it was important to break out to the south, taking Andong and Daegu to prevent Walt from hemming him in. Anton still had space left up north, and he connected Anju and Sinuiju to bring his city count to 6. Eric had to execute another wasteful jump, taking Gangneung and Sokcho on the east coast just north of Rich's area. Although Walt had just bought the #15 to increase his capacity, he decided not to build, remaining at 5 cities and running the #26 plant in solo mode for the fourth straight turn.

The Round 6 auction was a short one, as none of us had the slightest interest in any of the plants and we passed in order. We removed the lowest-numbered plant and moved to the building phase. Charlie was well and truly surrounded, and it would have cost him a fortune to add to his 4 existing cities, so he passed. Walt was next to build, and he showed no restraint whatsoever, building Jeonju, Gwangju, Naju and (leaping over Rich) Gyeongju. This increased Walt's city count to 9, allowed Walt to make full use of the #15 plant and guaranteed that Phase 2 would begin. Once this happened, the rest of us skipped our building opportunities in anticipation of cheaper connections next time. Walt would earn more income than the rest of us, but the increase in payout for your 7th, 8th and 9th cities isn't all that great and we could afford to wait.

Better plants were available for Round 9. First up was the #25 coal plant, which Walt put up for auction, thinking how nice it would look next to the #26 he already owned. We all liked the looks of that plant, and Walt had to pay $49 to buy it. This made Eric the auctioneer, and he put the #28 nuclear plant up for auction. There was only one nuclear plant in the game, the #34 Rich had bought way back in Round 4, and the uranium price was all the way down to $1 on the South Korea map, providing Rich with the cheapest power of any of us. Although the capacity of the #28 plant is only 4, we liked the low prices and Anton wound up bidding $36 to purchase it. This brought the #30 plant out, and Eric put it up, expecting competition, but was delighted to get it for list price. No one was running trash plants, and the fuel was cheap. Rich and Charles were hoping another good plant would drop, but a small plant came out instead and Rich took the #21 hybrid as Charles passed in hope of a better option. It was not to be, and in fact Charles had to settle for the #27 windmill, with its smallish 3-city capacity. Our capacities were now 15 for Rich, enough to make it to the end of the game, 13 for Walt, 12 for Eric (who discarded the #16 rather than the #22 as a money-saving move when he bought the #30,) 11 for Anton and only 10 for Charles.

Money was piling up in our treasuries, but money doesn't do you any good if you can't buy the plants you need. Now that we could double up in a city already connected by an opponent, Charles was free to expand. He built Anyang, Yongin and Wonju to reach 7 cities. Rich added 4 cities, Gangneung, Sokcho, Chuncheon and Seoul, to reach 9. Anton jumped into the area where Charles started, taking Gaesung, Goyang and Incheon to bring his total to 9 as well. Eric moved down the east coast into the area originally claimed by Rich, building Donghae, Samcheok, Taeraek and Andong to make his total 10. Walt had plenty of room down south and added Ulsan to reach 10 as well, just the number for his #25 and #26 plants to power.

After the spate of plant purchases in Round 7, it was back to recession in Round 8 as nothing on offer was even as attractive as the #27 that Charles had been forced to settle for last time. We all passed and again tossed the lowest plant back into the box. It was still Phase 2, and it was looking like someone (including Rich, who had the lead in capacity) could build to 15 cities soon to end the game. Charles needed to add cities, and he built Suwon, Cheongju and Daejeon to reach 10, the most he could power. Anton built Ganggye, the last unconnected city up in his bailiwick up north, and Rich added two in Gyeongju and Ulsan to reach 11. Walt could power 13 cities, and he went for it, taking Jinju, Daegu and Busan. Eric had power for 12, but declined to build, hoping to get the big plant that would allow him to compete with Rich for the win.

In Round 9 we were still in Phase 2, and Walt was first to auction a plant. Much to his chagrin, the best plant left was the #23, with a capacity that only matched his #15, but with cheaper fuel. Walt bought the #23, leaving his capacity at 13 cities. There were still no good plants, but Rich didn't need a plant and passed, hoping his 15-city capacity would be enough to win. Charles knew it was too late for him and he passed, turning the auction over to Eric. The best plant was now the #24 trash plant, which powers 4 cities, but it was 2 cities more than Eric's #22 windmill, and he bought it, bringing his capacity to 14. Now the #33 windmill dropped, but it too had only a 4-city capacity and Anton was forced to settle for it, enabling him to power 13.

There's plenty of space on the Korea map, and it was clear that anyone with enough money could find room to build. Anton added 3 cities to reach his capacity and stopped building. Eric added 4 of his own and he stopped as well at 14. Charles had no reason to build, as he could not power more than the 10 cities he already had connected. Rich then built to 15 cities, ending the suspense. Walt was last to build, and he added 2 cities to reach 13, matching Anton.

Rich won this game by stepping up to buy the #34 nuclear plant early, paying a healthy price, and with the game ending in Phase 2, none of us could catch up to him.

Final scores: Rich 15, Eric 14, Walt 13 + $116, Anton 13 + $22, Charles 10.

Eric's rating: 9. It's amazing how designer Friedemann Friese has managed to keep the Power Grid/Funkenschlag franchise fresh and new by adding little rule changes that make a big difference. There's more variety now than there ever has been, and I'm happy to play a game in this series every time we meet.

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greglios — 2008-10-28T09:01:36+00:00

FF at his stand in Essen

Thread: Power Grid China Detailed Session Report

thorndor — 2008-10-26T22:52:30+00:00

I got my first chance to play Power Grid China the other day. This was also my first chance to try out my new session report aid which you can find here: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/35828.

Before I get to the details, a few comments. Power Grid was one of my early favorite games, but lately it has not gotten on the table much. The impact of the random plant draws has just seemed to frequently be the determining factor and that has decreased some the of interest. So, I like the deterministic plant draws and was excited as soon as A started to explain. (I am tempted to change the end of the game to make it deterministic as well, but that is a game for another day).

Although I did not lead ever turn, I made a decision early to not worry as much about turn order as I would in a standard game because one of the primary downsides of leading does not apply in China. In China, in the first two steps, all the plants available are known ahead of time. So, there is no disadvantage in having to offer a plant for auction first.

Due to the high cost of resources play was cautious. Many power plants went for cost. Only having three available did not seem to be a big deal because usually someone wasn't buying one anyway.

Turn Order 1. Al 2. Sherry 3. Richard 4. Kara
Auction Proposer Plant #Winner Bid
1. Al #6 Kara $8
2. Al #5 Sherry $6
3. Al #7 Al $7
4. Richard #8 Richard $8

New Turn Order 1. Richard 2. Al 3. Kara 4. Sherry
Raw Material
Purchases Type 1 Cost Type 2 Cost Type 3 Cost

4. Sherry 2 Oil $10
3. Kara 1 Garbage $7
2. Al 3 Oil $17
1. Richard 3 Coal $15

Building Number Cost
4. Sherry 1 $10
3. Kara 1 $10
2. Al 2 $26
1. Richard 2 $24
Get Money 1. $33 2. $33 3. $22 4. $22

]]>

Turn Order 1.Richard 2.Al 3.Kara 4.Sherry
Auction Proposer Plant# Winner Bid
1. Richard Pass
2. Al #10 Al $12
3. Kara #12 Kara $14
4. Sherry #9 Sherry $9

Raw Material
Purchases Type 1 Cost Type 2 Cost Type 3 Cost

4. Sherry 1 Oil 2 Coal $13
3.Kara 2 Coal $9
2.Al 2 Coal $10
1.Richard 3 Coal $18

Building Number Cost

4.Sherry 1 $16
3.Kara 1 $16
2.Al Pass
1.Richard Pass
Get Money 1. $33 2. $33 3. $33 4. $33

Turn Order 1.Kara 2.Al 3.Sherry 4.Richard
Auction Proposer Plant # Winner Bid
1. Kara #14 Kara $14
2. Al #15 Sherry $19
3. Al Pass
4. Richard #13 Richard $13

Raw Material
Purchases Type 1 Cost Type 2 Cost Type 3 Cost

4.Richard 3 Coal $15
3.Sherry 2 Coal $12
2.Al 3 Oil $13
1.Kara 2 Oil $10

Building Number Cost
4. Richard 1 $17
3.Sherry Pass
2.Al Pass
1.Kara Pass
Get Money 1. $33 2. $33 3. $33 4. $44
]]>

Turn Order 1. Richard 2.Sherry 3.Kara 4.Al
Auction Proposer Plant# Winner Bid
1. Richard #19 Richard $19
2. Sherry Pass
3. Kara Pass
4. Al Pass

Raw Material
Purchases Type 1 Cost Type 2 Cost Type 3 Cost

4. Al 3 Oil $16 4 Coal $19
3.Kara 4 Garbage $18 2 Oil $11
2. Sherry 2 Coal 1 Oil $18
1. Richard 2 Garbage $11

Building Number Cost
4.Al 1 $17
3.Kara 1 $16
2.Sherry 1 $15
1.Richard 1 $19
Get Money 1.$54 2.$44 3.$44 4. $44

]]>

Turn Order 1.Richard 2.Sherry 3.Kara 4.Al
Auction Proposer Plant# Winner Bid
1. Richard #21 Richard $21
2. Sherry #17 Sherry $17
3. Kara Pass
4. Al #20 Al $20

Raw Material
Purchases Type 1 Cost Type 2 Cost Type 3 Cost

4.Al 4 Coal $21
3.Kara 2 Oil $10
2.Sherry 2 Coal 1 Uranium $17
1.Richard 2 Oil $12

Building Number Cost
4.Al 1 $10
3.Kara 2 $35
2.Sherry 1 $19
1.Richard 1 $21
Get Money 1.$64 2. $54 3. $64 4.$54

Turn Order 1. Richard 2.Kara 3.Al 4.Sherry
Auction Proposer Plant # Winner Bid
1. Richard Pass
2. Kara 25 Al $28
3. Kara 23 Sherry $28
4. Kara 22 Kara $22

Raw Material
Purchases Type 1 Cost Type 2 Cost Type 3 Cost

4.Sherry 2 Uranium $9
3.Al 1 Coal $4
2.Kara 2 Garbage 2 Oil $18
1.Richard 2 Garbage 2 Coal $20

Building Number Cost

4.Sherry Pass
3.Al 1 $16
2.Kara 1 $14
1.Richard 1 $22
Get Money 1. $73 2. $73 3. $64 4.$54 5. 6.
]]>

Turn Order 1. Kara 2. Richard 3.Al 4.Sherry
Auction Proposer Plant # Winner Bid
1. Kara #28 Kara $28
2. Richard #26 Richard $26
3. Pass
4. Pass

Raw Material
Purchases Type 1 Cost Type 2 Cost Type 3 Cost

4.Sherry 3 Uranium 2 Coal $23
3.Al 3 Coal $13
2.Richard 2 Oil 2 Garbage $18
1.Kara 1 Oil 2 Coal $17

Building Number Cost

4.Sherry 2 $46
3.Al 1 $26
2.Richard 2 $35
1.Kara Pass
Get Money 1.$73 2.$90 3.$73 4.$73

Turn Order 1.Kara 2.Richard 3.Al 4.Sherry
Auction Proposer Plant # Winner Bid
1. Kara Pass
2. Richard #30 Al $40
3. Richard Pass
4. Sherry Pass

Raw Material
Purchases Type 1 Cost Type 2 Cost Type 3 Cost

4.Sherry 2 Coal $8
3.Al 6 Garbage $29 2 Coal $9
2.Richard 4 Oil $17 2 Garbage $12
1.Kara 1 Uranium $6

Building Number Cost

4.Sherry 2 $39
3.Al 1 $20
2.Richard 2 $49
1.Kara 2 $50
Get Money 1. $90 2. $105 3.$82 4.$90

]]>

Turn Order 1.Richard 2.Kara 3.Sherry 4.Al
Auction Proposer Plant # Winner Bid
1. Richard #32 Kara $36
2. Richard #31 Richard $31
3. Sherry #38 Sherry $38
4. Al Pass

Raw Material
Purchases Type 1 Cost Type 2 Cost Type 3 Cost

4.Al 8 Coal $35 3 Garbage $18
3.Sherry 1 Uranium 3 Garbage $26
2.Kara 1 Uranium $6 3 Coal $12 3 Oil $15
1.Richard 6 Coal $39 4 Oil $25 (?)

Building Number Cost

4.Al 2 $38
3.Sherry 3 $56
2.Kara 3 $73
1.Richard 3 $64
Get Money 1. $124 2. $112 3. $105 4.$90
]]>

Turn Order 1.Richard 2.Sherry 3.Kara 4.Al
Auction Proposer Plant # Winner Bid
1. Al Pass
2. Sherry #39 Sherry $39
3. Kara #50 Kara $50
4. Richard Pass

Raw Material
Purchases Type 1 Cost Type 2 Cost Type 3 Cost

4. Al 2 Coal $13 3 Garbage $22
3.Kara 1 Uranium $5
2.Sherry 2 Uranium $13 2 Garbage $16
1.Richard 4 Oil $23
Building Number Cost

4.Al 2 $44
3.Kara 2 $48
2.Sherry 1 $27
1.Richard 4 $95
]]>

Final Plants Powered: Richard 15, Kara 13, Al 11, Sherry 9

As you can see, I got into the lead and simply pushed the end of the game sure that I could power more than the others.
]]>

Image

tickwang — 2008-10-24T02:35:23+00:00

Chinese play china map

Thread: Re: Market Shortages in China - News at 11

singingdragon — 2008-10-22T19:18:21+00:00

The Korea side is also quite interesting. Both maps add new, nontrivial dynamics to the game, which is a definite plus if you've played Power Grid dozens of times, like our group has.

Thread: Re: Power Grid China & Randomness

thorndor — 2008-10-22T01:54:35+00:00

locusshifter wrote:
2F does a great job of play testing their stuff. I'm sure they tried it already.

I'm sure they do play test their stuff. In fact, I would guess that they tried to create a game that they believed would appeal their target market. It may be that the average Power Grid player prefers some randomness.

This does not preclude a less random game from being a good game. I think China is rather proof of concept in that regard.

Thread: Re: Power Grid China & Randomness

locusshifter — 2008-10-21T23:18:56+00:00

2F does a great job of play testing their stuff. I'm sure they tried it already.

Thread: Power Grid China & Randomness

thorndor — 2008-10-21T22:55:13+00:00

Recently, I had the opportunity to play the China map for the first time. I really like the map / rules set. In just one play, it has become my favorite map.

I had become somewhat disenchanted with Power Grid. A lot of the game seem to hang of the random flips of power plants. Too frequently, it seemed like the whole game came down to a random flip of a power plant in single late game auction.

I really like the rules that make the order of the plants in the first two phases fixed. I find it unfortunate that the game returns to randomness at the end.

So, two intertwined discussion questions: 1. Why didn't China go all the way and eliminate the random plant draws? 2. Would it make a decent variant to have all the plants come out in a fixed order?

Thread: Re: Question on playing China with new power plant cards

Ponton — 2008-10-16T17:14:53+00:00

virre wrote:
But Powergrid is unplayable with the old deck

I guess you mean the old "Funkenschlag" deck. When we say "old deck" we're talking about the original "Power Grid" deck. Last year in Essen, there was a "new deck" released.

Thread: Re: Question on playing China with new power plant cards

virre — 2008-10-16T16:05:21+00:00

But Powergrid is unplayable with the old deck

Thread: Re: Power Grid China – A Different Experience

Karlsen — 2008-10-16T02:20:49+00:00

rondom wrote:
I have a question - if you want to use the new power plants with the China map how do you go about it - the instructions have a list of power plants to remove (based on the number of players), but they clearly don't apply to the new set (or if they do have a very strange impact on the game indeed). I have looked for some online instructions, but failed to find any.

Probably best not to use the new power plant deck until an official list is released for use the China map. I might have actually read that somewhere, but I don't remember where - so don't take it as cannon.

Thread: Re: Power Grid China – A Different Experience

Karlsen — 2008-10-16T02:19:09+00:00

custom golf clubs wrote:
Karlsen wrote:
Nice and informative - thanks.

If this wasn't already on my wishlist it would be now. My main problem is do I wait for the RGG edition to arrive in Australia or get my Essen Personal Shopper to pick me up a German one? The language thing isn't an issue, it is just which one would I get my hands on first?

Have the Big M get it for you. Have FF sign it too. That is what i would do, but I tend to do dumb things like that if i have a "personal shopper".

I must admit I was tempted to do that, but the RGG edition finally showed up in Australia so I have "already got one".

Now to play the thing. With Melissa away, I don't get out much, and the last games night we had since I got it included someone who thought that Fearsome Floors was complicated, so Power Grid China/Korea was not a starter that night

Thread: Re: Power Grid China – A Different Experience

custom golf clubs — 2008-10-16T00:22:31+00:00

Karlsen wrote:
Nice and informative - thanks.

If this wasn't already on my wishlist it would be now. My main problem is do I wait for the RGG edition to arrive in Australia or get my Essen Personal Shopper to pick me up a German one? The language thing isn't an issue, it is just which one would I get my hands on first?

Have the Big M get it for you. Have FF sign it too. That is what i would do, but I tend to do dumb things like that if i have a "personal shopper".

Thread: Re: Power Grid China – A Different Experience

rondom — 2008-10-15T23:18:35+00:00

I have a question - if you want to use the new power plants with the China map how do you go about it - the instructions have a list of power plants to remove (based on the number of players), but they clearly don't apply to the new set (or if they do have a very strange impact on the game indeed). I have looked for some online instructions, but failed to find any.

Image

Malachi — 2008-10-10T22:21:24+00:00

End of a 4 player game in China, custom bits, yellow wins

Thread: Re: Quick China Session Report

tickwang — 2008-10-10T01:35:29+00:00

Hi, wade

Thanks for sharing the report. I will try this map soon. Another idea is trying to play china expansion rule one USA map to see if it will be interesting.

Thread: Re: Step 3 Question

DaveD — 2008-10-09T21:33:42+00:00

That is correct, in Step 3 on the China map, the lowest power plant is removed and replaced in the same way as on all the other maps.

Thread: Re: Step 3 Question

mikey384 — 2008-10-09T21:09:37+00:00

Sorry, I meant the China map.

Then what are the China rules trying to state here?

"Important: during step 3, in phase 5, players remove the smallest power plant from the market and replace it with a new power plant from
the supply, so there are always 4 power plants in the market in step 3."

Thread: Re: Step 3 Question

locusshifter — 2008-10-09T20:30:06+00:00

Not for China. You almost never discard plants in China. The only time would be if when you restock plants and add the mandatory 2 that this pushes the number of plants to over the # of players minus one. In such a case you discard the lowest until you have the proper number of plants.

I've only played Korea once, but I do not remember any special rules for plants, so yes, for Korea you would discard the lowest.

Thread: Step 3 Question

mikey384 — 2008-10-09T20:15:33+00:00

Just making sure I read the rules correctly. In Step 3, I always remove the lowest power plant in Phase 5?

Thread: Quick China Session Report

Schwade — 2008-10-09T13:18:12+00:00

This variant map uses the map of China (without Tibet) and has a couple interesting rules tweaks. The first 30 plants (ok, plants 5-30) are placed in order, so you always know which one is coming next. Then, there are no plants placed to replace purchased ones, and there is no futures market. This means that turn one, plants 5-10 will be purchased, and no others. Every other round you refill the market to make certain that there is one plant less than the number of players (so not every player can buy a plant every round). If you ever don't buy at least 3 plants, then you will remove those plants. Also, you don't destroy a plant if the number of cities is built. Step 3 comes up randomly between plants 31, 32, 34, and 35 (33 is removed), then the rest are shuffled below that group. Once step 3 is reached, 4 plants are always available and there is plant replacement after purchase.
Also, Coal and Oil start at 5, Garbage at 7 and Uranium off the board. More scarce resources than most other games.

After explaning the rules to Eric and Kyle, we were off. We chose to eliminate the pink portion of the map (the Northeast most region) which had a lot of short connections but really only one way to connect to the mainland. We opted to leave in the most expensive Western area, where there were 2 different 25 cost connections to a cluster of 4 cities that didn't end up being that great.

I managed to shake out last, but the first round of plant purchasing didn't go exactly as I had planned. Karl won the 5 plant which I thought would be a big deal down the road as he would get to choose his setup first. This was the third plant auctioned, with the first 2 plants going out being 10 and 6 (one good for resource options, the other being the only garbage plant). I ended up with 9, which I wasn't excited about but I didn't want to get stuck with a plant that required 3 resources with the high costs. I ended up getting a decent spot just south of Beijing and Joel, who had decided to take the zero cost connection to the east of Beijing and move up towards the closed off area.

We played through a few turns. I felt that Karl might have been trying to stay a little too far behind, but we built up. It was actually Kyle, in the southeast who built to 6 cities first, triggering stage 2. Ironically, later that turn the step 3 card was revealed and we were suddenly in step 3 without ever really enjoying the rewards of step 2 exclusively. I managed to leave myself in last when this all happened, so I was in a prime position from that regard. Kyle was in the lead of course and seemed to like it there. I can't remember if I built first or second on the next turn, but I was happy with my position. I ended up getting the 38 plant and held that one for the end game. I later picked up the 48, which combined with the other plant I had from step one (2 coal/oil for 4 cities) gave me a capacity for 17. The penultimate round I managed to determine that I was the only one who could power 15, if I could get there. I wasn't even close and instead I waited one last round, buying next rounds resources when they were cheap rather than waiting for when I might be behind of course.

Kyle was still in the lead and powered a lot more cities than I did. This did leave me in a much better buying position for the next round however. In the end, I built to 16 while he could only build to 15 by virtue of his going last and therefore having to pay the highest connection costs. Eric and Chris both got to 14 (with Eric winning a 2 Elektro tiebreaker for thrid place), Joel finished 5th and Karl 6th. The game was an interesting one and I'd certainly like to give it another go, particularly if they come out with some rules for the expansion deck.

I like the planned market mechanic. I think it could be pretty significantly advantageous to know the order of the plant decks and I'm glad there is noone who knew that in our game. The increased starting cost of resources didn't really seem to affect us because the replenish rate was so high for the 6 player game that things got cheap quickly.

I also dont think the Tibet thing is anything at all to get upset about. Its on the map, outlined, but there are no cities which would make sense thematically.

In all, I'm a big fan of power grid. If you're a fan, you'lll like this expansion a lot and I'd highly recommend it. If you've never played before, you may want to consider trying one of the base games before getting in depth in China.

Thread: Re: Power plant replacement at Step 2 transition (China)

Ponton — 2008-10-08T19:59:11+00:00

That's weird. Perhaps we're building too many cities usually or you're buying a plant each turn which results in less money to build cities.

Thread: Re: Power plant replacement at Step 2 transition (China)

MickeyD — 2008-10-08T19:18:58+00:00

I played the China map twice and both times it was 5-players and about 2 1/2 hours long. However, both times, we had 1 turn of step 2 before step 3. The first game, the player accidently triggered step 2 as the last to buld. He could have waited a turn, leaving us with no step 2 at all. -MickeyD

Thread: Re: Korean replenishment chart oddities?

MickeyD — 2008-10-08T18:04:44+00:00

Veile Danke, Henning! I really enjoyed playing the Korea board. -Mike

Thread: Re: Power plant replacement at Step 2 transition (China)

DaveD — 2008-10-07T19:42:55+00:00

On my one experience so far (4 players) Step 3 started after 1 turn of step 2 and the game went on for another couple of turns. The game came in a shade under 2 hours, which was actually shorter than I thought it might be at first try.

Thread: Re: Power plant replacement at Step 2 transition (China)

Ponton — 2008-10-07T19:37:53+00:00

My experience was rather that step 3 hardly occured. Usually, the game ends in late step 2.

Thread: Re: At Phase 5:Bureaucracy on China map

Ponton — 2008-10-07T19:36:30+00:00

The new player order is determined in phase 1 of the following round, not during the bureaucracy phase (phase 5). In the EnBW edition, it's even phase 2, where turn order is determined.

Thread: Re: At Phase 5:Bureaucracy on China map

mikey384 — 2008-10-07T18:13:17+00:00

On a slightly different note, I assume Bureacracy consists of these steps, just as in the base game...?

1. GET PAID. According to base game rules, starting with the leading player, each person decides how may cities to power and returns resources. Then second place person according to the who goes next and so forth. Does anybody else do this or not bother and just have the banker pay each person clockwise?

[Our group had never done this before until I read the base game rules for Bureacracy. In China, unlike any other maps, resources are so scarce, some would be worried someone might buy up all the resources and not power in the next round...making not power cities a possibility. Then the following people would evaluate their choice based on other's decisions.]

2. FLIP NEW POWER PLANT CARDS as needed.

3. RESTOCK MARKET. The above step would determine if we restock using Step 2 or Step 3 values for example.

4. DETERMINE NEW PLAYER ORDER.

Thread: Re: Power plant replacement at Step 2 transition (China)

mikey384 — 2008-10-07T17:57:46+00:00

Morganza wrote:
We've been playing it as "If there are any power plants in the market (that were available for purchase but not chosen) then remove the lowest of those."

I agree that the rules are not clear.

What happens if you have a mutant game where you get to step 3 before step 2?

That happened to my group the other night. We played with Step 3 rules (as in base game) where we removed the lowest plant (as in base game), the Step 3 card (as in base game) and then made sure we had 4 plants. We could then build in the 15 and 20 spots. On our last round we had one and final plant, which we removed so there were no more to bid on, and then proceeded directly to buying resources.

We only played the China map twice (5 player and 6 player) but it seems to take us at least 3 hours to play instead of the typical 2 hours. Does everyone else have the same experience?

Thread: Re: Power Grid Korea/China - Nice twists on an already great game

chunsaunni — 2008-10-07T02:29:14+00:00

this looks so fun!

Thread: Re: Power plant replacement at Step 2 transition (China)

Morganza — 2008-10-06T22:50:39+00:00

We've been playing it as "If there are any power plants in the market (that were available for purchase but not chosen) then remove the lowest of those."

I agree that the rules are not clear.

What happens if you have a mutant game where you get to step 3 before step 2?

Thread: Re: Korean replenishment chart oddities?

Henning — 2008-10-06T16:22:52+00:00

Official answer & link to PDF:

The first print run of the expansion accidentally has 3 mistakes in the resource table of Korea .

As Dylan noticed, it should be:
* 4-player game, step 2: 3/3 (North/South).
* 4-player game, step 3: 2/2 (N/S).
* 5-player game, step 1: 1/2 (N/S).

At the 2F-Spiele website you will find a printable PDF with the correct numbers (http://www.2f-spiele.de/index_eng.htm).

The next print runs will have a correct resource table.

Please excuse this misprint!

Henning Kröpke
(for 2F-Spiele)

Thread: Re: Korean replenishment chart oddities?

dturnerfish — 2008-10-04T22:34:02+00:00

Citizen Psmith wrote:
The total replenishment rate of the Korean resource table, adding North and South together, is mostly identical to the original game's. Three exceptions that I can see:

* 4-player game, step 2: 4 coal rather than 6.
* 4-player game, step 3: 5 coal rather than 4.
* 5-player game, step 1: 2 garbage rather than 3.

The first of these in particular seems a very odd decision; there's actually less coal coming in for 4 players than there would be for 3 players. What's the thinking behind these changes?

My guess would be that they started with at a base level, and then adjusted resources after play testing. Tweaking until they got to a satisfactory level of resources. But I agree it is a bit odd. I hope to play this map in the next week.

Thread: Re: Korean replenishment chart oddities?

DaveD — 2008-10-04T22:06:42+00:00

While I don't see that there should necessarily be an exact match, you're right about the first one. I wonder if the southern figures for coal in a 4 player game have been swapped for steps 2 and 3. That is the refresh should be 3 in step 2 and 2 in step 3.

This would make the figures for step 3 match and would fit in with the fact that the supply of coal usually drops in step 3, whereas in this case it seems to rise in the south.

Thread: Korean replenishment chart oddities?

Citizen Psmith — 2008-10-04T21:24:24+00:00

The total replenishment rate of the Korean resource table, adding North and South together, is mostly identical to the original game's. Three exceptions that I can see:

* 4-player game, step 2: 4 coal rather than 6.
* 4-player game, step 3: 5 coal rather than 4.
* 5-player game, step 1: 2 garbage rather than 3.

The first of these in particular seems a very odd decision; there's actually less coal coming in for 4 players than there would be for 3 players. What's the thinking behind these changes?

Thread: Very quick report on Korea

RDewsbery — 2008-10-03T16:10:16+00:00

It's barely worth a session report, but we played a game on the Korea board this week. 5 players, three of them new to Power Grid. The game was ultimately something of a wash-out thanks to the way that I screwed up the power plant market - yet again I forgot to remove the highest value power plant for the first couple of rounds, and that combined with a shuffle that saw a lot of 30s and 40s drawn first meant that everyone was sitting on a game-ending power plant by the second or third turn. Curse that easily forgotten rule!

I would say that the new players were fine with Korea - as the only special rule is the split fuel market they had no problems with the board, and I thought that the split market made for some interesting situations if you had - or were considering - a broad portfolio of power stations with different fuel requirements.

We'll try again next week with hopefully the right rules and a more even spread of power stations.

Thread: Re: Power plant replacement at Step 2 transition (China)

Ponton — 2008-10-03T13:48:29+00:00

It starts at the end of phase 4, before phase 5 begins. So, it's included correctly IMO. However, I'm no official and maybe wrong as anybody else.

Thread: Re: Power plant replacement at Step 2 transition (China)

DaveD — 2008-10-03T13:25:22+00:00

That was my thought, but the inclusion of the paragraph under phase 4 seems wrong because the suggestion it gives is that step 2 starts in Phase 4, which I hope very much is not correct.

Thread: Our first visit to China

DaveD — 2008-10-03T13:18:20+00:00

This game played at Halesowen Boardgamers on 1 October 2008.

Paul, Steve Hilton, Steve Perkins and I played Power Grid, this being our first game with the new expansion, which I picked up in the afternoon. We played using the China side of the board and eliminated the purple area to the west together with the pink North Eastern region.

This was more of a new Power Grid experience than any of the previous expansions as I expected that it would be (and expect Korea will also when we get round to trying that one) with the sequential appearance of the power plants making a big difference to the way the game was played. In the normal way of play we have tended to try and minimise the number of plants bought throughout the game, which has resulted in quite a few of the lower value plants going unbought because better ones drop into the market. In this game pretty well all the plants were bought to keep up with the rate of city growth, even if a plant failed to sell on its first being available, it would be picked up the following round and I don’t recall that we were ever in the position of discarding low value plants in phase 5. Whether this pattern will be repeated with further plays as we get used to it I don’t know, I suspect not but the fact that someone must miss out on a plant each turn is also a factor here.

Another interesting feature was the increased competition in the Auctions, with quite a few plants being bought for a lot over face value, I recall that #50 went for 71 and I think #30 went for 66 at a time in the game when trash was cheap. It was also interesting to note the battle for plant #6 that I had with Paul in the first round; this plant is certainly a much better prospect on this board, with both Coal and Oil having a starting price of 5 (that said, it needs to be as someone must buy it).

The board play did not seem to be too different from normal (other than the change in geography), with Steve P (despite only having 1 capacity) taking the zero linked cities of Tangshan and Tianjin, Paul took Beijing and I took 2 cities (I think Shijiazhuang and Jinan. Steve H had the 8 plant to power 2 cities, but because Steve P had driven up the coal price, he could not afford to build 2 cities (and buy fuel) so he elected not to buy fuel or build and waited until turn 2 to place, starting in the east with Shanghai and Nanjing. This is a strategy I’ve thought of in the past, but I don’t recall ever seeing it done, I suspect that on this board it will be more common as the high fuel prices make it uneconomic to run the initial 2 capacity plants at less than full capacity. (Note, looking back now, I’m not quite sure Steve had his maths right as I’m sure he got the plant at face value, which should have left 25 available for city buying and there were places on the board where it was possible to get 2 for this).

From this point on the game proceeded a bit slower than I would expect a normal game to go, Step 2 started the turn before step 3 and there were enough turns after that so we actually ran out of the plants in the market. Steve H came unstuck the turn before the end, he had been running very economically with a combination of nuclear (cheap fuel) plants and wind plants, but he was lagging in capacity and bought the 36 plant powering 7 for 3 coal, unfortunately there were already 3 other coal plants running and Steve P chose to stock his up for 2 turns, totally depleting the coal supply before Steve H could buy. In the final turn there were 4 coal available and Steve P was to buy first, Steve H chose to scrap the 36 (buying the 37 (4 wind)) on the assumption that Steve P would buy enough coal to prevent the 36 operation despite not needing it himself and that powering 14 cities was better than powering 10.

Paul ended up the winner on 18 cities, having managed his plants very well, with Steve P and I on 17 (he won the tie break 14 to 7) with Steve H on 14 with plenty of money but no point spending it.

So that was our first visit to China, the game came in a fraction under 2 hours after rules explanation which seemed quicker that I thought it might be. I’m sure that we made a lot of mistakes and this board certainly needs more play. The one thing I wonder about is the “what if” situation where Steve H chose to stick with the 36 at the end, because if Steve P had decided to buy the coal he would have been 15 poorer and could not have built 17 cities dropping him behind me. If he hadn’t bought the coal that would have left Steve H with 17 capacity and I suspect with enough money to build 17 and beat both of us in the tie break. Paul would still have won however.

Next Stop Korea.

Thread: Re: Power plant replacement at Step 2 transition (China)

Ponton — 2008-10-03T12:13:08+00:00

As this paragraph is written under "Phase 4" and not "Phase 5", you need to remove the lowest plant and replace it, immediately. If there are no plants to remove, do nothing.

Thread: Power plant replacement at Step 2 transition (China)

DaveD — 2008-10-03T11:25:55+00:00

Just a quick one that occurred to me in our first game on this map. The rules state

at the beginning of step 2 (after at least one player has built the specified number of cities), the players remove the smallest
power plant from the market, replacing it with the top-most plant from the supply.

I assume that Step 2 actually starts in Phase 5 as in the base game and the first thing that normally happens in that phase is the replacement of power plants. Now my question is this.

What happens if, at the start of step 2, there are no power plants in the market? Do you replace the plants as normal and then replace the lowest plant or do you say that because there are no plants at the beginning of phase 5 you do not replace a plant.

In this game I did not replace a plant.

Thread: Re: Split Markets have Little Effect; Close Win (with Impressions)

fnord23 — 2008-10-01T00:58:48+00:00

Kubigaruma wrote:
Unless the Korean map makes an exception, the normal six player game ends with 14 cities.

It doesn't make an exception. Oops.

And the split market can have a huge effect (beyond making almost every purchase cost more); it requires even more careful power plant management; it's relatively easy to hang someone out to dry if they are (even a little) too focused on one type of resource.

Thread: Re: Split Markets have Little Effect; Close Win (with Impressions)

Kubigaruma — 2008-10-01T00:20:42+00:00

Unless the Korean map makes an exception, the normal six player game ends with 14 cities.

Thread: Re: Question on playing China with new power plant cards

2ndPlace — 2008-09-30T20:18:17+00:00

Thanks Chris,

I'll stick with the orginal deck and keep my eye out for new information in the future on use of the new deck.

Thread: Re: Question on playing China with new power plant cards

fnord23 — 2008-09-30T19:15:59+00:00

There was a post from Henning Kroppke(sp?) (involved with 2-F Spiele).

He said that sooner or later there would be an official list for using the new deck with the China map, and that just using the list for the original deck wouldn't work particularly well.

That's good enough for me not to mess with it until the official list is published.

That said, you can do whatever you want.

Thread: Question on playing China with new power plant cards

2ndPlace — 2008-09-30T18:38:17+00:00

Has anyone played the China map using the new power plant deck. I would think you would not use the "plus sign" cards and remove the cards stated in the rules for china. Would there be any other changes? Would like to give it a try soon.

Thread: Split Markets have Little Effect; Close Win (with Impressions)

Iceberg1 — 2008-09-30T16:21:21+00:00

Session

At the last Iowa City Game Day, Joel broke out his copy of Power Grid - Korea/China, and we decided to try out the split resource market in Korea. The players were Joel, Brad, Kevin, Erin, Jennifer, and myself. Six players is a lot for PG, and I was looking forward to some tough competition and a tight resource market.

We picked starting regions, and the South East region was the only region we weren't playing in. This left the Northern regions open with their large connection costs intimidating all but the brave.

We bid for the starting plants, and I bid on and won the four plant. This guaranteed that I would have the first opportunity to buy resources and more importantly, would be able to choose a starting location. On the Korea map, there are four cities near Seoul that have no connection costs between them. I placed my starting city there and immediately bought another.

Other folks placed starting cities fairly spread out. Jennifer played in the North, Joel in the South, and everyone else somewhere in between.

After the second round, I had bought a third and fourth city which started the beginning of me being in first place, and thus having to eat everyone's scraps in the resource market and pay more for city connections. I didn't let this deter me, as in other games of PG I've played, I've noticed that being first isn't necessarily the kiss of death. For one, you get more money if you power all those cities that put you in the place in the first place.

The power plant market was quite odd (at least compared to other experiences), in that some of the best plants were able to be purchased quite early in the game. I guess this is a side-effect of having 6 players. Everyone had a 4 city or 5 city power plant after the third round. And these were the reason I think that the resource market never dried up. You just didn't need to buy a lot of resources to power your cities.

As the game neared the end, it became apparent to myself that I could win, if I could build enough cities and if no one else could build up to 15. Only Joel had the plant capacity to power 15. I watched nervously as he took his turn and built 14 cities, but realized that he couldn't build the 15th. He was short one elektro.

Facing another round, I really thought that I wouldn't be able to hold off everyone else, and suggested I just build the 15th city on my turn and hand the win to Joel (I couldn't power 15, I think I could only power 13). Everyone else convinced me not to do this and I acquiesced.

During the last round, I acquired the Fusion plant, which gave me enough capacity to tie the other leaders at 15. They let me have it for only 76. I was prepared to pay a lot more, as I'd been stockpiling cash during the last two or three turns. I built up to 15 cities and powered them all for a tie, but I had about 90 elektros after that, far surpassing anyone else. Money is a tie breaker!

James (winner), Joel, Kevin, Brad, Erin, Jennifer

Impressions
I was surprised that the Korean resource market never seemed scarce. I think with 6 players the market fills up maybe a little too quickly? Also, everyone but one player was a PG veteran, and that new player got a lot of good advice. I think we all kept our power plants well diversified and we were particularly aware of each other's plants would quickly move out of a resource that seemed to have too many plants. This not only benefited the person leaving the resource (say coal), but benefited those who stuck with the resource, because there was less competition.

I like the Korea map. It was fun selecting the more difficult northern territories, rather than keep all of the relatively cheap southern ones. This afforded some people who expanded into the north an unencumbered canvas to place their power stations on. I guess it's the same with a lot of the other maps, but it was nice on this one, too.

I didn't mind playing with 6 people. The game did start to drag a little toward the end, but for the most part, having more people just made the game more challenging and bidding more fun, too.

I had fun with this one. I like the way the expansions change one aspect of the game as a way to make it different. In this case the divided market was interesting, but not as tense as I had believed beforehand. I'd love to play this again with any number of players, and maybe try out the command economy of the Chinese!

Thread: Re: Power Grid Korea/China - Nice twists on an already great game

custom golf clubs — 2008-09-29T00:19:53+00:00

If I never play China map again it will be too soon!

Image

mdu2boy — 2008-09-26T00:53:25+00:00

From Bobby Tweak's game night

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mdu2boy — 2008-09-26T00:52:23+00:00

From Bobby Tweak's game night

Thread: Re: Power Grid China – A Different Experience

Kolumel — 2008-09-24T06:52:24+00:00

Actually, the designer has explained that he did NOT intend to make a political statement with the map. Rather, Tibet is not colored because unlike the other areas of China there are no cities to power in the game. The designer thought that it would never make sense (in game terms) to power Tibet and thus left it out.

Thread: Re: Power Grid China – A Different Experience

gjnave — 2008-09-23T19:46:49+00:00

Werbaer wrote:
gjnave wrote:
what?!!! This is outrageous! I rate this board a 1 even though I havent played it! How insensitive can you be? What was the designer thinking?
I assume you tried to be funny, but this already happened:
mpqz wrote:
I'm a fan of Friedemann and Power Grid. I origionally planned to buy a copy of China Map. However, there is a really huge mistake made by Friedemann on the map of China. I changed my decision. Really disappointed. And he did rate it a 1.

ahh grasshopper... but that was the beauty of my humor. Referring back to the original curmudgeonly post and making it seem as if it was my own.

Thread: Re: Power Grid China – A Different Experience

Werbaer — 2008-09-23T16:01:57+00:00

gjnave wrote:
what?!!! This is outrageous! I rate this board a 1 even though I havent played it! How insensitive can you be? What was the designer thinking?
I assume you tried to be funny, but this already happened:
mpqz wrote:
I'm a fan of Friedemann and Power Grid. I origionally planned to buy a copy of China Map. However, there is a really huge mistake made by Friedemann on the map of China. I changed my decision. Really disappointed. And he did rate it a 1.

Image

bmayer — 2008-09-22T19:29:10+00:00

Sangju is the hub

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duartec — 2008-09-20T19:32:38+00:00

Middle of a 4 player game

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tmredden — 2008-09-15T18:47:37+00:00

Power Grid China/Korea English cover

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Grimwold — 2008-08-23T08:06:11+00:00

Early on in a 3 player game of Power Grid - Korea (compare with the 'end of game' image)