Game: Rat-a-Tat Cat

Thread: Re: Using 9's for some fun in Rat-a-Tat-Cat

Jeremiah_Lee — 2008-09-15T20:02:04+00:00

I like it. I can't see it coming into play very often, but it's a nice addition.

Image

jsper — 2008-09-11T14:44:01+00:00

Promotional sheet in german

Thread: Re: A few variants to make the game fresh

cdunc123 — 2008-07-17T12:04:00+00:00

Hi Andrea,

Regarding your question, I didn't envision the Target Variant needing an official winner each round. That is in keeping with the regular (i.e. non-variant) way of playing Rat-a-Tat-Cat. What matters in both the regular game and the variant is the overall game score (that is, the sum of the various rounds' scores). First player to 100 ends the game; whoever has the lowest total at that point wins. It's fine if there is a tie during a round or two.

That said, it would be easy to produce a round winner each round if that is desired. One way would be to use variant 3b, which combines the Target Variant and Superknock Variant. That way if the knocker ends in a tie with another player, the knocker gets a penalty, and the other player emerges with the lower of the two scores--and so is the winner of the round. (I suppose, though, that it could happen that the knocker has a higher score than two other players, and those two other players are tied for lowest score. In this case, there would not be a single winner for the round. You could think of the two players tied for first as joint winners. I can't imagine this would happen too often, though.)

A second way (this time without the Superknock Variant) to produce a round winner most of the time would be simply to say that if two people are equally distant from the target, but one person is high and the other low, then the lower score wins. So if the target is 5 and one person has 4 and the other 6, the person with 4 wins the round. Of course, if both players have 4 or both players have 6, then they are tied and there is no single winner. So this method does not always produce a round winner. But as I said above, this does not matter in the grand scheme of things. What matters is the total score at the end.

Regarding your wish to increase the card swapping... Hmmm... I'm not sure how to do that. I suppose one way would be to treat all the power cards as wild cards, which could be used for any of the power functions, at the player's choice. So a player could swap even if he/she uses a Peek card. A second way, I suppose, would be to allow a player to swap anytime (instead of drawing a card) with another player by doing the following: say whom he/she wishes to swap with, then announce his four card total, then turn over all four cards; if he/she announced the correct total, then the swap takes place, but if the total is wrong, then the other player gets to swap a card (or maybe two cards!) from the original announcer. I'm not sure how well that would work -- it might be worth a try, though. If it works well, it could become Variant 4, The "Flop and Swap" Variant (flop your cards on the table, then swap)!

Good luck!

Thread: Re: A few variants to make the game fresh

sortilege — 2008-07-16T23:43:26+00:00

I'm impressed, Craig. Very good job!

About the target variant: the winning player of the round is the one with the lowest total (after subtracting the target number as you have explained) or the one with the total closest to the target number?

I really like people exchanging cards one from the other: "robbing" good cards is very fun! Have you ever tried to increase the frequency of this exchanges in some way?

Thread: A few variants to make the game fresh

cdunc123 — 2008-07-10T21:54:45+00:00

Rat-a-Tat-Cat will always hold a special place in my heart, since it is the first real game that my young children and wife and I played together and all enjoyed (my youngest at the time was just four).

We had played Candyland and the like all together before finding Rat-a-Tat-Cat, and while my wife and I enjoyed making our kids happy by playing Candyland, etc., I can't say that we enjoyed the games themselves! Rat-a-Tat-Cat changed all that. It made me wonder what other games were out there, which led me to go online, which led me to BGG, which revolutionized our family game night!

We played Rat-a-Tat-Cat so much, though, in those early days that we burnt out on it. Perhaps your family's experience is similar. So I have devised a few variants to make the game seem a bit fresher! I hope you enjoy them.

Variant #1 -- The "Corners" Variant

Borrowing an idea from the public domain card game Golf (the game upon which Rat-a-Tat-Cat is based), you could do the following. Arrange the four cards in a 2 x 2 square rather than a row of 4. Any cards of the same number in the diagonal positions cancel each other out, and make zero. So for instance, if you have a 9 in the upper left and a 9 in the lower right, they cancel each other out and each counts as zero. Ditto with any other number, including power cards (power cards need not be the same power to cancel each other).

This would put a bit more emphasis on the memory element of the game.

Of course, you would need to develop a house rule about which two cards players get to peek at before the start of play. I would suggest the top row (i.e. the top two cards) or the bottom row. Letting people peek at the diagonals at the start might put someone too far ahead at the start, if he/she lucked out and was dealt a matching pair in those positions.

Variant #2 -- The "Superknock" Variant

Change the scoring system, so that in addition to scoring points for the cards in one's hand, the knocker gets a bonus of -10 points if, but only if, his/her hand is lower than all other players' hands. If the knocker's hand is NOT lower than all other players' hands (including if it is tied for lowest hand with another player), then the knocker gets a +10 point penalty. This introduces some added tension into the decision whether to knock. (Of course, you can adjust the bonus/penalty as you see fit, e.g. +/- 5 points instead of 10, or whatever.)

Variant #3 -- The "Target" Variant

A normal game of Rat-a-Tat is set up by placing the undealt cards in the middle of the table to form a draw pile, and then turning over the top card of the draw pile to begin a discard pile. According to the rules, if a power card is turned over as the first of the discard pile, it is buried back in the deck and a new card is turned over to start the discard pile.

In this variant, the exact same setup is performed, BUT the card turned over to begin the discard pile ALSO sets the target for the round. So for instance, if a 5 is turned over as the first card of the discard pile, then the target is 5. At the end of a hand, compute your score by subtracting the target number from the sum of your cards in your hand. Convert any negative number to a positive number. (So for instance, if the target is 5, a card total of 5 scores as 0, a card total of 4 or 6 scores as 1, a card total of 3 or 7 scores as 2, and so on.)

This has the virtue of heightening the arithmetic practice, since a simple rule of "the lower the card, the better" no longer holds true. This increased complexity could help breathe new life into the game if your kids have grown out of it a bit.

Also, here are some variants-of-a-variant:

Variant #3a

When the draw pile exhausted, the game rules tell you to shuffle the discard pile and then turn it over to begin a new draw pile. In variant #3a, shuffling the discard pile "resets" the target, so that the first card of the discard pile after the shuffle becomes the new target. Obviously, this could topple some well-laid plans!

Variant #3b

As in Variant #2 above, the knocker gets either a penalty or bonus as the case may be, depending on whether he/she is closest to the target. Also as in variant #2, in the case of a tie, a penalty is assigned. Note that in variant #3b, there are TWO ways to tie. E.g. if the target is 5 and you knock with a hand total of 4, you will tie with another player whose hand totals 4 AND with another player whose hand totals 6 (since both a 4 and 6 score as 1 when the target is 5).

Variant #3c

In the original variant #3 as explained above, the first card turned over from the draw pile to start the discard pile sets the target for the round. This is true regardless of whether or not the player to the dealer's left (i.e. the player who starts the play for the round) decides to pick up that first discard pile card and take it into his or her own hand. In variant #3c, by contrast, the card at the bottom of the discard pile at the end of the round, WHATEVER IT IS, sets the target. This means that if, say, the person to the dealer's left picks up the first discard pile card and then discards one of his/her own cards, then the newly discarded card sets the target (provided, of course, that THAT card is not likewise taken up by the NEXT player to play, and so on....)

Three comments on variant #3c:

** This variant gives some advantage to those closest to the deal; the further from the dealer's left you are, the more likely it is that the target will be locked in (as it will be once there are two cards in the discard pile) by the time that the turn-of-play comes around to you, and thus you will be unable to influence its value. So a group may wish to play that the game ends when each player has dealt twice (or some other number) rather than play that the game ends when one player breaks a 100. By requiring the same number of deals per player, no one has been asymmetrically disadvantaged.

** Variant #3c entails variant #3a above, namely, that a shuffling of the discard pile (once the draw pile is exhausted) resets the target.

** One advantage of variant #3c is that the target can be verified at the round's end. Without this variant, it may be that the first discard pile card, which set the target, was picked up and put in someone's hand. If players misremember this number, and hence disagree over the target value at the end of round, there is no concrete, objective proof of the actual target value. In variant #3c, by contrast, the target number can be verified at the round's end simply by checking the first card in the discard pile.

OK, that is enough variants for now. Reply to this post to let me know how they went for you!!

Thread: Re: A Classic Gamewright TItle is Tested With My Children

wmshub — 2008-06-27T23:34:21+00:00

Drew1365 wrote:
Oh, I guess you're right. I mean, I realize that this version is targetted at kids, I just remember the whole family playing this with a standard deck when we were younger. It was like an opening or closing "filler" before the serious card games started. That's me, finding the loopholes in children's games to ruin them for everybody. Although my crowning achievement is my strategy report for Mystery Garden: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/159742

Thread: Re: A Classic Gamewright TItle is Tested With My Children

Drew1365 — 2008-06-27T23:05:03+00:00

wmshub wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Curious statement. My family has been playing this one with a standard deck of cards since I was a kid -- grownups and kids alike. It seems to go over quite well. I think we used to play for dimes or nickels, too. I think it's pretty clear that if your starting side cards are low, you should immediately go out. That means that often, the "game" consists of one player ending it right away, while the others have time to try to replace exactly one card. If you start with your two "known" cards being low, then giving your opponents time to fix their known bad cards while you fix your maybe-bad cards can only help your opponents.

Thus, with adults who are really playing to win, often it's not much of a game at all. But when you ignore that strategy and take time to try to get all your cards low, then it becomes playable.

Or is there something I'm missing here?

Oh, I guess you're right. I mean, I realize that this version is targetted at kids, I just remember the whole family playing this with a standard deck when we were younger. It was like an opening or closing "filler" before the serious card games started.

Thread: Re: A Classic Gamewright TItle is Tested With My Children

wmshub — 2008-06-27T19:09:57+00:00

Drew1365 wrote:
Curious statement. My family has been playing this one with a standard deck of cards since I was a kid -- grownups and kids alike. It seems to go over quite well. I think we used to play for dimes or nickels, too. I think it's pretty clear that if your starting side cards are low, you should immediately go out. That means that often, the "game" consists of one player ending it right away, while the others have time to try to replace exactly one card. If you start with your two "known" cards being low, then giving your opponents time to fix their known bad cards while you fix your maybe-bad cards can only help your opponents.

Thus, with adults who are really playing to win, often it's not much of a game at all. But when you ignore that strategy and take time to try to get all your cards low, then it becomes playable.

Or is there something I'm missing here?

Thread: Re: A Classic Gamewright TItle is Tested With My Children

Drew1365 — 2008-06-27T18:56:09+00:00

wmshub wrote:
This is one of those games that can't possibly work with adult gamers, but somehow it's a lot of fun with the kids.

Curious statement. My family has been playing this one with a standard deck of cards since I was a kid -- grownups and kids alike. It seems to go over quite well. I think we used to play for dimes or nickels, too.

Thread: Re: A Classic Gamewright TItle is Tested With My Children

wmshub — 2008-06-27T17:44:50+00:00

This is one of those games that can't possibly work with adult gamers, but somehow it's a lot of fun with the kids. I'm still puzzling over what that means as far as game quality, but meanwhile our 5 year old loves to play it, and since we make her add up her own scores, it's also giving her good addition practice!

Thread: Re: A Classic Gamewright TItle is Tested With My Children

Rulesjd — 2008-06-27T17:29:00+00:00

My girls, aged 10 and 13, have played this game for 3-4 years and always seem to enjoy it. The luck element is significant enough that Dad can't steal the victories.

Thread: Re: A Classic Gamewright TItle is Tested With My Children

IronMoss — 2008-06-27T16:54:47+00:00

Glad this one was a winner for you & your crew. We've had this one for years, and it's still one of our kids' (now 9 & 7) most requested games.

And, yeah, I lose at this more than my fair share as well . . . and not due to lack of trying.

Thread: Re: A Classic Gamewright TItle is Tested With My Children

EgorjLileli — 2008-06-27T15:58:39+00:00

We still play with the 2 up 2 down variant listed in the rules for children. My 7-year old loves the Statue of Liberty cards and does pretty well at this game. She will usually play until she wins.

Mystery Bob and I enjoy playing with her, but my memory deteriorates daily, so I have a hard time with this game!!!! (Oops, showing my age!)

Great game, great write-up!!

Thread: A Classic Gamewright TItle is Tested With My Children

fehrmeister — 2008-06-27T14:57:31+00:00

I brought out a newly acquired kids' Gamewright game on a Sunday afternoon to play with three of my kids who were up for some gaming, ages 7, 9, and 10. I had heard that Rat-a-Tat Cat is one of the better games from this publisher, and our kids have already had a lot of fun with other Gamewright titles like Loot, Match of the Penguins, and Turn the Tide (still my favorite of the lot). I explained the rules, which they caught on to right away, although the "Swap" card was a little confusing at first for the 7-year-old.

Here are the rules in a nutshell: Each player is dealt 4 cards face-down which they put in a row in front of them. Most of the cards have a single number ranging from 0 to 9 on them, and then there are a few types of special cards which allow for different actions to be taken. At the end of the round, the 4 cards are flipped face-up, and the numbers on the cards are totaled. Each person then scores their sum, with the smallest sum winning the round. At the beginning of the round, each player is allowed to look at 2 of the 4 cards in front of them, but after that, they can not be viewed again until they are discarded or until the end of the round. On a turn, a player must flip up the top card from the draw deck so that everyone can see it, and then either discard it, or swap it with a face-down card in front of them. The goal is obviously to exchange the high point cards with lower point cards. A good memory is important to keep track of which card is where. Special cards allow actions such as a "Peek" at one of the four cards in front of you, a "Swap" that lets me take any of my face-down cards and exchange it for any other card in front of another player (without looking at either of them), and a "Draw 2" which lets me choose which of the top 2 cards from the draw pile I would like to take. The round ends when one of the players thinks she may have the lowest values on her set of cards and calls out "Rat-a-tat-tat", signaling that there will only be one more turn for each of the other players before the round ends. Then the cards are flipped, scores recorded, and the next round begins with a fresh set of 4 cards for everyone.

As we played, I could see the kids' eyes light up with excitement as they began to understand how the game was supposed to work. They loved the tension of swapping one of their unknown cards with a card drawn from the deck, and finding out what they had just replaced. They also really enjoyed the artwork, which features whimsical representations of cats (for cards with numbers 1-5), and rats (on cards with numbers 6-9) doing various human-like activities, including a cat posing as the Statue of Liberty on the zero cards. The game easily held their attention for about half-an-hour, and when our game finished after 4 rounds, they all wanted to play again right away.

I got a kick out of the game as well, though I did not fare nearly as well as my kids in terms of successful play. I called "Rat-a-tat-tat" twice, thinking both times that while I did not have perfect cards, they would probably have lower values than the average values of the kids' cards. I had not looked at one of my 4 cards each of those times, and both times it turned out to be a card with a high number. Meanwhile, the kids often had very low scores. While I got "15" for a round, they were turning out zeroes and ones and getting scores like "3". I turned down my aggressiveness for the later rounds, but still wasn't as successful in picking up low cards. In fact, I didn't pick up a zero card even once in the whole game. It was also fun to be the target of the kids' swap cards, where they would smile and exchange a high-card from their set with what would turn out to be a lower card from mine.

Final scores were:
8-year-old boy: 31
10-year-old girl: 48
7-year-old boy: 64
Me: 64

This game is a real winner for playing with kids. It's different enough from any of our other kids' games to feel fresh and interesting, and it's obvious that it will be one of their favorites for a while. And any game that involves even a slight bit of strategy that kids can beat their parents at is a good thing!

Thread: Re: Rat a Tat Cat -- Anniversary Edition -- Before You Buy

Toothpick the Ferret — 2008-01-14T01:49:43+00:00

Calicat wrote:
Age (my recommendation): Age 5 and up. 5 - 9 may be prime Rat a Tat Cat years. (I hear some 4 year olds play this, but require help with the scoring)

My mother-in-law may be the one in my family who loves this game the most. Including my 8 and 10 year-old boys. I wonder what that says about her....

Calicat wrote:
So, personally, I try to avoid looking at the backs and this works out ok. And, I have to admit, Miss K thinks that superpeeking is an awfully fun thing to do, and I bet most kids would agree. So I have to lay the blame at the feet of the company. Gamewright, are you listening?! You could have, and should have, made the backs impossible to read without the glasses.

That aside... even if the superpeeking worked properly, I find it to be too powerful. Seems like there are too many superpeek cards (there are 6), and you are allowed to look at EVERYBODY's card. We use a house rule that you can only superpeek one person's set of cards... either your own or someone else's.

I would agree, kids seem to think superpeeking is uber-cool. However, we've played quite a few games and I don't think superpeek has made a difference in more than 1 or 2 of them overall. Don't disagree with you about the backs of the cards. You can read them if you try without the glasses.

Thread: Rat a Tat Cat -- Anniversary Edition -- Before You Buy

Calicat — 2008-01-13T06:23:04+00:00

Rat a Tat Cat -- The 10th Anniversary Collector's Edition -- Before You Buy!

Summary: Rat a Tat Cat is an easy-to-learn, quick card game that is fun to play in a mixed group of children and adults. It involves memory and decision-making skills. Great artwork on the cards, and a super game tin for this edition.

Time commitment: 5 - 10 minutes for a round, 15 - 20 minutes for a game.

Age (my recommendation): Age 5 and up. 5 - 9 may be prime Rat a Tat Cat years. (I hear some 4 year olds play this, but require help with the scoring)

Players: 2 to 6. Play is more intense with two, as you have a better grasp of what each player has, and you only have one other person to "pick on" with power cards. A bit more fun with 3 or more players.

Basic gameplay:

Deal out four cards face down in a row for each person. The deck contains a combination of number cards, from 0 - 9, and power cards which allow you to do something special--if you DRAW them, as opposed to have them in your row of four.

Each player secretly checks their outer two cards and commits them to memory. There is no casual peeking later, even if you forget! Then, players take turns drawing a card, from either the draw deck or the discard pile, and replacing one of their four cards or simply discarding the draw.

The idea is to replace any higher cards in front of you (or any power cards, which are useless unless drawn) with lower cards. Along the way, you may get to swap a card with another player, draw two cards and essentially choose your favourite, peek at any card you choose, or "superpeek". Superpeeking involves using the included red-filmed glasses to read the backs of ALL cards.

At some point, when you believe your cards are low enough, and hopefully lower than anybody else's at the table, you call "rat a tat cat" at the end of your turn. (At our house, it seems important to knock on the floor/table as you say these words.) Everyone else then receives one more draw, and then all four cards in front of each player are flipped and the face values of the cards are added together. Scores are kept and added together from round to round. Lowest score, obviously, will win.

Differences between the regular version and the Anniversary Edition:

According to the box, the new additions are the Superpeek glasses, the superpeek cards, and a few additional power cards of the other types. The balance of power cards (the draw 2, peek, and swap) to number cards feels just about right, but I have to say I DO NOT enjoy the superpeek element and I wish I had bought the regular version. First of all, I can easily read the coded information on the backs of the cards WITHOUT using the superpeek glasses. My daughter (Miss K) claims she can read some of them, too. (And we're not the only ones on the forum to make this claim.) Unfortunately, that takes away much of the fun and suspense. If you know the cards, there's no chance of making a bad swap, for example. The tension is gone.

So, personally, I try to avoid looking at the backs and this works out ok. And, I have to admit, Miss K thinks that superpeeking is an awfully fun thing to do, and I bet most kids would agree. So I have to lay the blame at the feet of the company. Gamewright, are you listening?! You could have, and should have, made the backs impossible to read without the glasses.

That aside... even if the superpeeking worked properly, I find it to be too powerful. Seems like there are too many superpeek cards (there are 6), and you are allowed to look at EVERYBODY's card. We use a house rule that you can only superpeek one person's set of cards... either your own or someone else's.

I think the message here is, More playtesting! Or maybe the message is, If it ain't broke, don't fix it with an anniversary edition.

Skills for developing gamers:

This is great for developing memory skills that are quite different from those in Classic Memory or Chicken Cha Cha Cha. First of all, as you replace your cards, you must remember the new number. If a player swaps with you, you might want to remember where they put your card so you can get it back later! You can also watch to see what they discard... if it's a 5, for example, then the card they replaced it with is a 4 or lower. That kind of information is much harder to remember than regular memory fare. And later, it can help you in a swapping situation.

As for decision making, I like that kids are forced to make simple choices at every turn. Which card do I switch? On a draw 2, do I take the second card? Who do I go after in a swap? Which card should be peeked at? When do I call rat a tat cat? And so on. It might be relatively simple for an adult, but it trains the the brain of a developing gamer nicely.

And don't get me wrong! I enjoy the game a lot, and my brain is fully engaged in trying to remember all the information possible. I suggest this game frequently for the two of us, and Miss K does as well. I highly recommend it as an important part of a kid's game collection, and it is one that will probably get played quite a bit.

Important Speciesist Information:

From my rat-loving daughter: "Why did they have to draw the rats so UGLY?!" An unfair portrayal of a relatively snuggly and intelligent creature, to be sure.

Calicat's call: DO buy this game for fun adult and kid together times. It's a keeper! Just be sure you know which edition you want. I personally feel the original is the way to go. Have fun!

Thread: Using 9's for some fun in Rat-a-Tat-Cat

piks — 2007-12-17T18:33:38+00:00

One variant I found to be interesting is to collect four 9's. So the object is to see if you can get four 9's vs. the lowest numbered cards. If you have four nines in your hand at the end of your round your score=0? But if you get caught with only 3 nines and some other card as your 4th, you have to add up all the cards for a final score.

so 9+9+9+9=0
but 9+9+9+8=35

It throws in a bit of a twist and I think makes the game more fun.

Thread: Re: Anniversary Edition?

Calicat — 2007-12-13T22:18:03+00:00

I can superpeek, too, and now I wish I had gotten the regular version of this. It takes all the fun away for me. I'm getting tempted to use a marker to cover all the superpeek parts and just play the regular way, but I hate to mess up the cards that way. Darn you, superpeek powers!

Image

m_hamburg — 2007-12-09T04:42:09+00:00

All the cards arranged to show their distribution. There are nine 9's, four of each of the other numbers, and three of each of the power cards.

Thread: Re: When can you look at the 2 inner cards?

boardgamejason — 2007-12-06T21:57:31+00:00

Thanks for clearing that up! That's how we played this afternoon, but just wanted to check.

Thread: Re: When can you look at the 2 inner cards?

brafman — 2007-12-06T21:46:15+00:00

Larry Welborn wrote:
dscoob wrote:
Larry Welborn wrote:
You don't find out the value of the middle cards until you replace one of them or use the "peek" card. So you run the risk of replacing a card with a higher valued one.

Thanks, Larry. I haven't actually played the game yet--I just read the instructions. So when you draw a card and decide to replace one of yours with the just drawn card, you don't get to look at either of the 2 middle cards--you simply replace one of the 4 cards, and then you only get to see the replaced card when you discard it into the discard pile?

I feel so silly being confused about this game. Hopefully it's not just me!

Correct.Yep! Its part of the light fun. For example, I drew a 3; do I take a risk and replace one of my middle cards? You can play the odds knowing the distribution of the cards.

Also of course the "peek" cards let you peek at any one of your cards.

- David

Thread: Re: When can you look at the 2 inner cards?

brafman — 2007-12-06T21:43:33+00:00

boardgamejason wrote:
Along a similar line...when you draw a card do you show it to your opponents? How else are you supposed to keep track of what the other players have?

Thanks.
ShannonNo, you keep it secret. Just like most card game when your opponent draws a card. You do not have perfect information in this game. Its a light, fun game (especially playing with kids), not a deep strategy game. If someone draws a card and keeps it, then you get to see the card they are discarding. So you know its likely the card they kept is better than the one they tossed. (Of course I've been known to keep a bad card now and then to throw off my opponents!)

Similarly, if you get a swap card, you probably want to swap for a card that you remember one of the other players drew and kept, as thats the best sign of a good card that you can get in this game.

Thread: Re: When can you look at the 2 inner cards?

boardgamejason — 2007-12-06T19:32:58+00:00

Along a similar line...when you draw a card do you show it to your opponents? How else are you supposed to keep track of what the other players have?

Thanks.
Shannon

Thread: Re: Anniversary Edition?

miyazakigrognard — 2007-11-30T03:10:11+00:00

Cactus Dreams wrote:
somehow her eyes can figure out what card is what even without the rat scanner. so when she plays the deluxe version she knows what every card is just by seeing the back of it. anyone else experience this?

Yes. I had the same amazing powers when I was very young. It went away over the years. I had forgotten about until reading this thread.

Thread: Re: When can you look at the 2 inner cards?

Larry Welborn — 2007-11-06T21:54:40+00:00

dscoob wrote:
Larry Welborn wrote:
You don't find out the value of the middle cards until you replace one of them or use the "peek" card. So you run the risk of replacing a card with a higher valued one.

Thanks, Larry. I haven't actually played the game yet--I just read the instructions. So when you draw a card and decide to replace one of yours with the just drawn card, you don't get to look at either of the 2 middle cards--you simply replace one of the 4 cards, and then you only get to see the replaced card when you discard it into the discard pile?

I feel so silly being confused about this game. Hopefully it's not just me!

Correct.

Thread: Re: When can you look at the 2 inner cards?

dscoob — 2007-11-06T21:17:25+00:00

Larry Welborn wrote:
You don't find out the value of the middle cards until you replace one of them or use the "peek" card. So you run the risk of replacing a card with a higher valued one.

Thanks, Larry. I haven't actually played the game yet--I just read the instructions. So when you draw a card and decide to replace one of yours with the just drawn card, you don't get to look at either of the 2 middle cards--you simply replace one of the 4 cards, and then you only get to see the replaced card when you discard it into the discard pile?

I feel so silly being confused about this game. Hopefully it's not just me!

Thread: Re: When can you look at the 2 inner cards?

Larry Welborn — 2007-11-06T15:53:32+00:00

You don't find out the value of the middle cards until you replace one of them or use the "peek" card. So you run the risk of replacing a card with a higher valued one.

Yes, you look at the card when you draw.

Thread: When can you look at the 2 inner cards?

dscoob — 2007-11-06T15:40:55+00:00

I'm confused by the rules.

When you draw a card and replace it with one of yours, are you allowed in all cases to look at your card that you are replacing? The instructions say that "A player's choice is based on remembering the values of his four face down cards." But at the beginning of the game, you are only allowed to see the 2 outer cards. How do you get to see what the values of the 2 inner cards are? When you draw a card, how are you supposed to know what the value of the 2 other cards are so that you can make a decision whether to replace them or not? If you're allowed to look at your cards to decide whether to replace it, doesn't that diminish the value of the peek card? Are you allowed only to look at the inner 2 cards, and the outer 2 cards are alway hidden (unless you have a peek card)?

When you draw a card from the draw pile, are you allowed to look at it?

Thanks very much.

Thread: Re: Princess S and Lady X Gang Up On Dad

berserkley — 2007-10-27T19:38:17+00:00

I agree. I've never figured out why there's never been a really good Dr Who game. We can dream.

Oh, and you need to get some pics of your girls (kicking your butt at games) on the Geek.

Thread: Re: Princess S and Lady X Gang Up On Dad

Wyll — 2007-10-27T17:56:32+00:00

berserkley wrote:
Have you shown them my avatar? The real rat-a-tat cat!

By the way, Jon Pertwee was my favorite Doctor, too.

They love the avatar and I get a kick out of Mr. Pertwee because he's like "Mr. Cool"... as well as one of few four limbes beings to master Vensuian Aikido.

Too bad there isn't any decent children's doctor who games I could get my hands on. I suppose I could make a Doctor Who Candyland variant.

Thread: Re: Princess S and Lady X Gang Up On Dad

berserkley — 2007-10-26T22:30:01+00:00

Have you shown them my avatar? The real rat-a-tat cat!

By the way, Jon Pertwee was my favorite Doctor, too.

Thread: Re: Princess S and Lady X Gang Up On Dad

davido — 2007-10-26T21:18:25+00:00

That's what I need to hear
-->added to TH cart along w/ Gulo Gulo as Daddy-Santa begins to load up the sleigh

Thread: Re: Princess S and Lady X Gang Up On Dad

Wyll — 2007-10-26T19:41:36+00:00

davido wrote:
My daughter (and my own Princess) has just turned 5 and is in Kindergarten. She can read a little bit, knows her numbers (and knows which is bigger or smaller e.g. 9 bigger than 7, 3 smaller than 5), but not arithmetic.

Would she be able to handle Ratatatcat (even w/ a little bit of coaching)?
nice report.

I think she could. Princess S is turning 4 in December and she knows 1 to 10 good. I started Lady X with Rat-a-tat Cat at 5 and she became really good at it within 6 months. Arithmetic was never a big factor in the game; the girls just knew they had to get the smallest cards and "0"s were the best. Even now, Lady X doesn't add anything up until the end of the game (using her a lot of her fingers).

I still coach the girls in new games until they can play it by themselves. With Rat-a-tat Cat, you just need to ask them questions like "Is 5 smaller than 9?" and "You got a total of 2 showing (when playing the younger variant [two cards up, two down]. Do you want to knock?". Also, keep reminding them that the smaller numbers are the best and "1"s and "0"s are the most powerful/special cards.

Thread: Re: Princess S and Lady X Gang Up On Dad

Wyll — 2007-10-26T19:35:47+00:00

I really don't mind losing that much and the girls love to think it upsets me (sadisitc little children). Plus, I take a small bit of pride in raising budding gamers who are really good for their age at a lot of games. My reactions jazz up the reports a bit (although I would like to win a game once in a while).

Lady X has used her ego-crushing skills to become good at a lot of boardgames at school. The teacher tells me that she's also a great sport and never rubs it in other children's faces when they lose and she teaches them strategies.

Unfortnately, Lady X seems quick to rub her wins in my face as quick as you can blink your eye.

Thread: Re: Princess S and Lady X Gang Up On Dad

davido — 2007-10-26T19:31:21+00:00

My daughter (and my own Princess) has just turned 5 and is in Kindergarten. She can read a little bit, knows her numbers (and knows which is bigger or smaller e.g. 9 bigger than 7, 3 smaller than 5), but not arithmetic.

Would she be able to handle Ratatatcat (even w/ a little bit of coaching)?
nice report.

Thread: Re: Princess S and Lady X Gang Up On Dad

ptarth — 2007-10-26T18:52:59+00:00

I have to say that I always enjoy your session reports with Lady X. I also have the sneaking suspicion that you aren't quite as upset as it seems with the girl's victories.

Thread: Princess S and Lady X Gang Up On Dad

Wyll — 2007-10-26T18:08:34+00:00

It's been a while since I could post another Lady X encounter, but we managed to get in a game of Rat-a-tat Cat recently.

In this little session report, we have 3 players:

Wyll - 35 year old proud geek dad
Lady X - 6 year old game maniac who crushed her dad's ego on a regular basis
Princess - 3 year old daughter who has started to join us at the gaming table

As per our routine, I get out the game and I began to set up. I deal the cards and tell Princess S "Turn up two cards like X, honey."

In my mind, I am thinking that this is my chance to not come last in a game. Part of me feels like a man who pushed a little old lady over to be first in line... but part of me can taste victory. I know in my black hear that Princess S will not remember her facedown cards... and I will be victorious!

"No dad." Lady X says. "She's younger, so let her turn all her cards face up.. and you keep all of yours face down."

I want to scream "What the deuce?!" at this reasonable suggestion, but I hold my tongue because the Queen of the House is nearby and I do not want to come off as a spoil spot.

"All right." I say through gritted teeth. "Let's play that way. Princess S, you can go first."

Princess grabs the top card from the draw deck with her little fingers and looks at it carefully. She tosses down the card (a "9") on the discard pile and we all take a turn.

On Princess S's second turn, she draws a card and shows it to us all. "It's a 6!" she squeals... and she promptly throws away a "2" in order to keep her "6".

Being the ever good sport, Lady X tells her sister that 2 is smaller than 6 and let's her take the move back.

On the third turn, Princess throws away a 5 before she even draws a card! She draws a "0" and keeps it. Lady X swaps one of my cards with hers (she takes my 2!) and I can only guess what she gave me.

I didn't have long to guess.

"Rat-a-tat Cat" Princess S says as she raps the table on turn 4.

"Honey," I say in my nicest daddy voice, "are you sure you want to knock? It's early in the game."

Smelling blood in the water, Lady X grabs Princess S's arm and whispers loudly to her "It's a trick! He's got high cards! Knock!"

"She can make her own decisions, X" I say with a tight smile.

Lady X looks at me and I flinch a bit. She then looks at her sister. "You want to knock, right?" Lady X asks her sister in that tone that suggests we can get dad so say yes.

Princess S nods and we all take one more turn.

The result? Princess S winds up with 7. Lady X has 9 and I have... 15 *sigh*.

I don't think it is the losing that I mind so much. It's when Princess S stands up on her chair and begins to dance in a circle while singing "I won! Uh huh! I won! Oh yeah!". Lady X decides to join in and I just sit there for a minute.

"Let's play again." I say and I scoop up the cards, wondering how much longer I have to wait until I can play something a little more complicated with them... and not seem like an unfair ogre.

2 games let, my ego is in the gutter in pieces.

Game 2 Results: Lady X - 2, Princess S - 9, Wyll - 10
Game 3 Results: Lady X - 5, Princess S - 1, Wyll - 25 *double sigh*

There was a lot of "I won! Uh huh! I won! Oh yeah!" dancing in the house that night. Princess S told all of her friends about the games she won. Lady X chimed in that she didn't win, but she beat her dad, which is always a victory.

One day, I will be seen as a god among boardgame geeks.

For now, I will be known as the guy who gets beat by 6 and 3 year olds.

Thread: Re: Loved By Lady X - A Good Gateway Card Game For Youngsters

Larry Welborn — 2007-10-03T14:25:55+00:00

I bought this recently and my 6 and 4 year old both enjoy it. Quick playing, it is an easy game to get in right before bedtime.

Thread: Re: Loved By Lady X - A Good Gateway Card Game For Youngster

Sagrilarus — 2007-10-03T04:27:25+00:00

A good review for a kid's game -- not enough of these on BGG. Keep up the good work.

Sag.

Thread: Re: Loved By Lady X - A Good Gateway Card Game For Youngster

Sifu — 2007-10-02T22:08:32+00:00

Quick, painless, and occasionally fun for adults - I think this one is a must have for households with 4-7 year olds. It's a great option when you don't have time for longer, more involved games.

Thread: Re: Loved By Lady X - A Good Gateway Card Game For Youngsters

Wyll — 2007-10-02T19:52:41+00:00

At 5, we really didn't find the math to be much of a problem. Lady X didn't so much learn to add as she understood that "this number is smaller than this number" and by doing that, she really caught on to the game. I would like to think this game really helped her adding and math skills.

Now that she is six, she can add... like "0+0 is zero (ducks fingers under the table and mumbles a bit)... Rat-A-Tat Cat!".

Thread: Re: Loved By Lady X - A Good Gateway Card Game For Youngsters

davido — 2007-10-02T15:09:14+00:00

Thank you for the review-I was thinking of this for my soon to be 5 yo daughter and worried that the 'math' might be too advanced. I'll definitely put this on the 'to get' list

Thread: Loved By Lady X - A Good Gateway Card Game For Youngsters

Wyll — 2007-10-02T13:12:10+00:00

I can still remember how sick and tired I was getting of playing Candyland over and over with my dear daughter, Lady X. Being 4 at the time, our options for games were really quite limitted. I decided to scope out a few good Geeklists and see if I could pull a Snake Pleskin and Escape from Candyland. Rat-A-Tat Cat came up a on quite a few lists as a winner with the young ones and I decided to give it a try.

Two years later, we're still playing and loving every minute of it.

Initial Thoughts

I like to refer to Rat-A-Tat Cat as a "milk and cookies" game (since beer and pretzels are not suitable for Lady X). It is a great, quick little game that is nice to play two or three times as a warm-up before you plunge into a serious session of Gulo Gulo or Hunters and Gatherers.

Object Of The Game

To have the lowest total of the four cards in your possesion after someone knocks and says "Rat-A-Tat Cat".

Componets

Inside the box or tin, you recieve a rulesheet and 54 plastic coated playing cards with images of cats and rats on them. The cards are numbered from 0 to 9, but there are a few cards that allow you to take a special action on your turn, such as Draw 2, Peek or Swap.

As a travel tip, I have discovered that you can also pack a Junior Uno deck inside the box in addition to the Rat-A-Tat Cat deck, so you can have the option to change games if you are getting trounced by your young one.

Gameplay

(1) Each player is dealt 4 cards face down and is not permitted to look at them.

(2) During a players turn, they can either draw off the top of the deck or take a card from the discard pile. If they choose to keep the card, they must discard one of the cards in their possession.

(3) Instead of drawing on their turn, a player can knock and say "Rat-A-Tat Cat". Everyone is allowed one more turn and then the game ends. Every player totals their cards and the one with the lowest total wins.

Easier Version - The rules make a suggestion for playing with players younger than 5. After the cards are dealt, players can flip over two cards and then play proceeds. This is a great variation to the game and not only makes it easier for young child, but also for adults who have a bad memory.

Strategy v.s. Luck Factor

I will not kid you: this game is pretty much all luck. You are truly at the mercy of the cards in this game, but they can often work to the young players advantage.

I've tried the strategy of ditching my two face down cards on the my first two turns so that I know exaclty how much I have. Far too often I have wound up discaring lower cards than the ones I keep.

Still, the special cards can bring a little strategy into the game. Lady X takes full advatange of the Swap cards and has learned how to read my face after I have used a Peek. She has also learned to knock on her first turn if her face up cards are signnificantly lower than mine.

Closing Thoughts

I still love playing this game with Lady X and now, her three year old sister Princess S has joined in our sessions. I would not want to play this for like an hour straight, but three or four games is just enough to get me warmed up for a little more "in depth" game.

Your millage may vary with this game depending on how game orient your child is. Lady X has proven she is well on her way to becoming a hard-core Game Geek, so she really enjoys this game.

Recommendation Summary

Wyll's Recommendation:

Fun Factor (5 Point Scale):

One Line Summary: Great light, gateway card game for ages 4 to 6.

Thread: Re: Lady X Learns The Concept Of Game Torture

Wyll — 2007-08-23T20:03:59+00:00

Thanks. I thought I up the ante and be a bit unfair by pulling out Star Wars Epic Duels.... I'll toss that session report up when my ego is not so bruised.

Thread: Re: Lady X Learns The Concept Of Game Torture

flieger — 2007-08-23T19:45:13+00:00

Excellent report.
You're blessed to have such a clever daughter.

Thread: Lady X Learns The Concept Of Game Torture

Wyll — 2007-08-23T15:24:13+00:00

Dateline Ottawa...

After enjoying a filling meal of Back bacon and raw carrots, I push back from the table and stretch. In a moment of weakness, I turn to my six year old daughter and ask her "What do you want to do tonight?". Before I can blink, a box is tossed onto the table and my old foe stares back at me with those cute Cat eyes...

"Rat-a-Tat Cat"

Lady X smiled that innocent six-year-old as she sits down across from me. I open the box and utter a silent prayer to the gaming gods for mercy as I shuffle out the cards.

Playing the traditional "Easy version", we flip up two of our cards. Ah! Fortune smiles on me as I stare at a "2" and a "7". Half of my total is nine and I feel like I have a fighting chance. I smile and glance at Lady X's two face up cards.

"0" and "1".

Play begins and I am drawing fast and furious. Every card I take off the drawpile, I pray that it is at least less than 5... "9"... "8"... "9"... I want to scream, but I will not give Lady X the satisfaction. I will crush her spirit and show her who is the true gaming master of this castle!

I can feel panic gripping my soul as Lady X begins to replace her face down cards. She toss away "3"... I grab it. Next, she gets rid of a "2". I laugh and snag it as well. "I got 7! Saints be praised!" I think... until Lady X discards a "1".

"Um, don't you want to keep that honey?" I ask sweetly.

"No. It's too big." she replies in her tiny, innocent voice.

What is her game? Is she playing some kind of sick and twisted game of Game Torture with me? I try to shrug it off and keep telling myself that my now proud total of "5" will win this for me... but every glance across the table at her "0" and "1" face up shakes my confidence.

Two turns later, I break down.

"Do you want to knock, honey?" I ask.

"Nope." she replies.

The next turn sales by and she discards a "2" she picked up. In my panic, I pick it up and wind up discarding a face down "1". Lady X smiles and snags it to replace a face down "2".

Weakly, I draw and discard. I am on the verge of rocking back and forth, holding myself and chanting "I can win with 5... I can win with 5".

"Rat-a-tat Cat." Lady X says as she knocks.

I quickly go and then flip my cards. "I have 5" I say, forcing false confidence into my voice and trying to hide my fear. "I have 2" Lady X says as she shows me her "0", "0", "1" and "1". I make a small comment to her "Wow. You just barely beat me."

"Not really, Daddy." she says. "I had 3 for a long time, but it wasn't small enough. I figure I had lots of time to go smaller than you."

My ego goes "PFFT" like an old ballon and I rub my face with my hands. Once again, I have failed to show that in this house, I am the Gaming Master. My reign is at and end and my daughter now sits upon the throne.

"Do you want to play again?" Lady X asks, blinking her innocent eyes at me.

Yes... yes, we'll play again because she cannot be that lucky twice! In this second game, I will emerge in triumphant and I will stand on the highest mountain and scream my victory.

"Sure!" I say with a smile. "I'll deal for you."

"Maybe this time I'll get a total of 0" Lady X giggles and she bares her teeth at me.

I begin to pray again... Our dice, who art on the gameboard, high may your faces show...

Thread: my sister can superpeek

Cactus Dreams — 2007-06-21T03:29:46+00:00

somehow her eyes can figure out what card is what even without the rat scanner. so when she plays the deluxe version she knows what every card is just by seeing the back of it. anyone else experience this?

Thread: Re: Do you Superpeek?

Cactus Dreams — 2007-06-09T19:51:38+00:00

the rat-scanner doesn't work with old eyes. what we do is hide the rat scanner, and say that drawing a superpeek card means you can peek at any one card on the table, either your own or someone else's.

Thread: Re: Do you Superpeek?

dsr15 — 2007-06-07T04:05:05+00:00

Now that I've played this game a bit more, superpeek definitely stays in the game. What was slowing it down for us was my parents (we often have 3 generations playing this game!). For some reason the rat scanner doesn't work for them. So they get a redraw instead. Kids superpeek very fast, so the game doesn't slow down anymore. Plus, the rat scanner is way cool and way fun for the kiddies (and me).

I like the fact you can't ratatat on a superpeek turn. When someone gets a superpeek it does tend to help bring the round to a close. If the person who superpeeked has a good hand, they'll rat-a-tat the next turn. And if the person who superpeeked does not rat-a-tat the next turn, that tells everyone that someone has a lower hand, and if they're smart, they better rat-a-tat soon!

dsr

Thread: Re: Do you Superpeek?

ekimmel — 2007-05-24T14:40:26+00:00

I don't have the anniversary edition but I've gotta admit that if I could superpeek I would. My 7 year old daughter beats me 90% of the time and anything additional I could use to try to improve my winning percentage I would most definitely use!

Thread: Do you Superpeek?

dsr15 — 2007-05-24T13:41:45+00:00

I just got the anniversary edition of the game that has "superpeek" cards and a rat-scanner viewer that allows you to view all card values on the table.

My question to you - Do you use the superpeek cards and rat scanner in your games?

In the few games I've played, it seems to slow things down a lot. Especially if you have several people playing and they're spread out and you physically have to get up and walk around to view everyone's cards. I'm thinking of just taking the superpeek cards and ratscanner out of the game. Thoughts on this? I wonder if just removing these cards would make it just like the non-anniversary game (card count).

tx
dsr

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ArtEmiSa64 — 2007-03-07T20:32:12+00:00

http://www.gamewright.com

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ArtEmiSa64 — 2007-03-06T19:35:15+00:00

back of card

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ArtEmiSa64 — 2007-03-05T23:52:08+00:00

TIN permission by http://www.gamewright.com

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jonjacobmoon — 2007-02-10T04:15:20+00:00

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dsmeyer — 2006-12-28T05:16:18+00:00

specials

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dsmeyer — 2006-12-28T04:23:48+00:00

eight and nine

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dsmeyer — 2006-12-28T04:20:15+00:00

Dan checking a card

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dsmeyer — 2006-12-28T04:14:49+00:00

six and seven

Thread: Re: Tips from a 6 year-old Card Shark

IronMoss — 2006-10-30T16:12:38+00:00

steveoliverc wrote:
I wouldn't use that rule with young kids because usually if they call out "Rat A Tat Cat!!!" it's because they've won or will be very close to it, and to win the game away from them wouldn't be much fun.

Agree, plus it adds a little tension to know the game can end at any time.