Game: Tarot

Thread: Re: suggestions on where to buy a deck

philebus — 2008-08-31T12:48:07+00:00

You might also want to take a look at

http://www.tarobearslair.com

He seems to be expanding his stock to include a number of the regional packs, including the French titled 1JJ.

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Groomporter — 2008-08-25T18:41:31+00:00

Booklet of early games played with Tarot Cards from MacGregor Historic Games

Thread: Tarot game T-Shirts!

General Snafu — 2008-08-15T22:22:39+00:00

http://www.printfection.com/globaltarotgaming

Thread: Re: suggestions on where to buy a deck

General Snafu — 2008-05-11T17:58:37+00:00

Below are some places to buy a "Tarot à jouer(playing Tarot)"

http://www.tarock.net/
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&cam...
http://www.playingcardsales.co.uk/cards/
http://www.levalet.com/

Thread: Re: suggestions on where to buy a deck

heli — 2008-05-11T04:04:33+00:00

Le Valet de Coeur in Quebec has sold them in the past.

Thread: Re: suggestions on where to buy a deck

watcher_b — 2008-05-11T00:00:15+00:00

BoardGameGreek wrote:
http://www.llewellyn.com/

A list of the decks for sale: http://tarot.llewellyn.com/?viewall=decks
Thank you for the quick response! I've found a lot of places that sell many many types of decks like llewellyn.com (I may have even stumbled on that site previously). But I'm not sure what I need to be looking for to find what I want. It seems that the vast majority of tarot decks have very fancy art work on them, burying the decks that are good for playing.

So what should I be looking for on this site, llewellyn.com, or any other site?

Thread: suggestions on where to buy a deck

watcher_b — 2008-05-10T23:41:24+00:00

I would like to get a deck of tarot playing cards for play. I prefer to keep the images on the cards similar to traditional poker/bridge cards so I do not have to try to figure out which card it is and to make it easier to teach the games. Here is an example from the image library here:
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Trying to search for something like this on the internet is near impossible as every site that has anything to do with Tarot is all about the mystical side. At best someone likes to discuss the beautiful art work, but just trying to find playing cards is very difficult. Hence the call for help!

Ideally I would like to get it from amazon.com, as I already am planning on making a order there and need a little bit more to get the free shipping

Thread: Strohmandeln - two-player Tarock

msaari — 2008-05-08T17:59:39+00:00

I happened to arrive our game session a tad late: the guys were already playing. I sat down to watch a game of Arkadia and chat about cards with OpettajaH. The game had a bit of a downtime and OpettajaH made an offhand remark about playing Strohmann-Tarock while he waited for his turns.

I jumped at the opportunity to give this game a go (I think from then on, OpettajaH's interest was mostly in our game...). Strohmandel is a two-player Tarock game from 1880s, though we used the modern scoring as outlined in Grosse Tarock Buch. It's played with the Austrian 54-card pack (four courts with 7-10 in black suits and 1-4 in red suits, 21 trumps and the Sküs).

Players are dealt 15 cards and the non-dealer gets the first chance to become a declarer. If one of the players declares (or the players have agreed to play if both pass), game continues. Players get three piles of four cards and the top cards are turned over. Trumps and kings are picked up immediately and the new top cards are revealed.

Then the game starts. The top cards of the piles count as part of your hand. It's interesting, as you get some information about your opponent's hand. It's nice to score court cards safely when you can see your opponent has pip cards in that suit... Gives the game a new twist!

Declarer must score at least half the points in the pack. Declaring is hard, because you don't see all your cards... But we were good sports and the non-dealer declared in all three rounds. We both managed to actually make one game, but in the last round Hannu declared, but I collected the points. Hannu made an Uhu (won the second-to-last trick with trump 2), but that didn't help: I won 7-4.

Strohmandeln is an entertaining game and based on this one session, it's pretty high on my list of two-player card games (Schnapsen is probably on top, and this gives Schnapsen some tough competition), but then again, I'm a fan of Austrian-style Tarock anyway (my preference is the Slovenian game, which is of Austrian descent but perhaps slightly less complicated than Königrufen).

If you have a Tarock pack and two players, there's no excuse: you must try Strohmandeln.

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jack61 — 2008-04-22T20:54:00+00:00

Here's the answer! Does anybody know the question?

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jsper — 2008-03-15T14:24:53+00:00

Example of cars in Heraclio Founier edition

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jsper — 2008-03-15T14:20:31+00:00

Back side spanish edition by Fournier

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jsper — 2008-03-15T14:18:28+00:00

Front side spanish edition by Fournier

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cdefrisco — 2008-01-22T18:29:24+00:00

All four suits include an additional "C"avalier in the court cards, and the ace (1) is always lowest.

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cdefrisco — 2008-01-22T18:28:12+00:00

Full hand of Hearts (includes the Cavalier as a fourth court card)

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cdefrisco — 2008-01-22T18:27:19+00:00

The full 21 cards of Trump (from 1 to 21)

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cdefrisco — 2008-01-22T18:26:29+00:00

The three Oudlers (Elders): The Excuse, the 1 of Trump, and the 21 of Trump

Thread: Re: Tarock or Tarot?!?

smootz — 2008-01-03T21:00:04+00:00

Thanks to all who responded! I was figuring the answer was something like that. The decks I have are the Piatnik 54-card Tarock packs, and I agree they are almost to gorgeous to play with. I will also check out the link to the rules section and see if we've played correctly in the past.

Thread: Re: Tarock or Tarot?!?

msaari — 2008-01-01T03:58:28+00:00

Of the 54-card Austrian style games, I very much recommend the Slovenian Tarok. It's easier than the Austrian games, I think, yet offers plenty of good action.

The Germans have pretty much quit playing actual Tarock and what they call Tarock packs indeed have just 32 cards. Bavarian Tarock (see Parlett's Oxford A-Z of Card Games, for example) is a good example of games evolved from Tarock but played with regular cards. Skat is another game with Tarock features (as it was invented by people from a Tarock club).

Bidding is indeed rare in the original Italian games - there are just few examples, and even those have very simple bidding mechanisms (Bolognese Terziglio comes to mind: it has exactly two bids).

The big Tarot packs are actually 78 cards (56 suit cards + 22 trumps). One major difference between 78-card and 54-card games is the nature of the Fool: in most 78-card games it's an excuse, a loser (which you get to keep) that can be played instead of following suit. In most 54-card games, it's the highest trump, even higher than 21.

The shortening of packs is of course very natural: that has happened in many point-based trick-taking games. The shortest packs used in Tarock are actually just 42 cards (Hungarian Tarokk, for example): just 20 suit cards and 22 trumps.

Piatnik makes really excellent 54-card Tarock packs: they look gorgeous and are well-designed for use. The best 78-card pack I've seen is Carta Mundi's Versailles-pack: another pretty and really functional pack.

Thread: Re: Tarock or Tarot?!?

LoMa — 2007-12-31T17:43:52+00:00

German Tarock and Tarot/Tarocchi decks are different games!!!!

Both are trick-taking games, but Tarot/Tarocchi is a much larger deck (72 cards) with 22 permanent trumps.

Tarock is a smaller deck - either 32 cards or 54 cards - depending on the country of origin - German Tarock decks are usually 32 cards (i.e., German decks usually lack the 22 permamnent trumps). Tarcok rules usually include a bidding element, which the Renaissance era game of Tarot/Tarocchi does not.

You can find rules for playing Tarocchi (the 72 card deck) here:
http://www.tarothermit.com/game.htm

The tarothermit site also has excellent info on the history of the Tarot deck.

Tarock rules for the 54 card deck can be found here:
http://www.ebepe.com/html/tarock_e.html
http://www.pagat.com/tarot/koenig.html

There are lots and lots of variation for the germanic and slvic countries form of play.

Our family likes to play Tarocchi with the Dal Negro reproduction edition of the Visconti-Sforza Tarot deck. Very fun to play with these evocative cards.

Thread: Re: Tarock or Tarot?!?

msaari — 2007-12-31T17:12:12+00:00

In original Italian, it's Tarocco (though, apparently, the word is French in origin, taraux being the original form). In most languages the guttural ending remains: in German it's Tarock, in Hungarian it's Tarokk, in many languages it's Tarok.

French say it Tarot. Had England learnt the game while it was doing the rounds in Europe, they'd call it Tarock as well, but alas, English folks only hopped on the Tarot bandwagon when it was all about the occult. That's a French development, thus the French name.

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herman_the_german — 2007-12-19T19:38:05+00:00

This is the cover to Dr. Moorn (Moorne) Egyptian Tarot's companion book

Thread: Re: Tarock or Tarot?!?

badweasel — 2007-12-07T01:44:20+00:00

smootz wrote:
I am confused! I always thought this game was called "TAROCK". I own several copies that all have that written on the deck box, as well as an English rulebook that refers to that title. Now my copies are all from Germany, so maybe it is different there. Does anybody know what's going on?

"Tarock" is the German name while "Tarot" is the French name. Tarot is the more common of the two.

Thread: Tarock or Tarot?!?

smootz — 2007-12-07T00:26:34+00:00

I am confused! I always thought this game was called "TAROCK". I own several copies that all have that written on the deck box, as well as an English rulebook that refers to that title. Now my copies are all from Germany, so maybe it is different there. Does anybody know what's going on?

Thread: French Tarot game meets American politics!

General Snafu — 2007-10-31T04:13:59+00:00

"What's in the cards for Social Security?"
http://www.youtube.com/contest/RepublicanDebate?v=-dLPyxhYG7...

Thread: Tarot market research

General Snafu — 2007-09-20T21:00:09+00:00

Important Syndicated Study of Tarot Cards for Publishing Industry

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=GtmMmCnPbnbshTj0X1_2b...

I think we should let the Tarot publishers know there are some of us playing card games with Tarot decks. I've already participated. Let the Tarot publishers hear from you. Let them know of your interest in Tarot/Tarock card games.

Thread: Anyone have an incomplete / "for parts" Rider-Waite deck?

NateStraight — 2007-09-08T14:47:38+00:00

I bought a pack of old Rider-Waite tarot cards at a garage sale today only to find that it's missing one card. It's a (c) 1971 edition from U.S. Game Systems, in a bright yellow box. The cards themselves have a diagonal plaid back in white, black, and blue. The card I'm missing is the three of swords. Can anyone help? I'll pay you something in cash or in GG and cover the shipping expense for mailing the card.

Thread: Tarot Players for Barack Obama

General Snafu — 2007-07-30T07:29:06+00:00

Yes, that's right. I'm not sure if Obama plays Tarot, but there's at least one Tarot player supporting him. I'll say he's better than Hillary as he has no Iraq baggage.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tarot4Obama/

Thread: Tarot games appearing in "mainstream" press!

General Snafu — 2007-01-15T23:14:40+00:00

here it is
http://www.bloggernews.net/13798
Of course, I'm the author of it.
It also appeared in other pubs including even something called "The Conservative Voice" Yes
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/21777.html

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

General Snafu — 2006-10-13T08:39:31+00:00

Re: 84724 is the tarocco piemontese. It is currently published for gaming purposes. I've seen the Italian language inserts giving rules for games.

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

Punainen Nörtti — 2006-10-12T06:30:04+00:00

Actually there are three kinds of decks, not just "playing decks" and "fortune-telling decks."

* First, the original design, that was used originally for playing, but from 1700 onwards also for fortune-telling. Characteristics:
* Italian suited (Batons, swords, cups, coins)
* No indices
* Abstract symbols without real artwork in "minor cards" (suit cards 1-10)
* Artwork in the trumps conforms to the divinatory meanings.

Nowadays, certain fortune-tellers prefer these cards, and such cards are still manufactured and sold in esoteric bookstores. They might still be used for playing in some regions of Europe, but I am not sure about that.

Images: 147560, 84724

* Second, the modern tarot playing-cards. Characteristics:
* French suited (Hearts, spades, diamonds, clubs)
* Indices on corners
* Abstract symbols without real artwork in "minor cards".
* Artwork somewhat elaborate in trumps, but it does not conform to the divinatory meanings.

Used for playing.

Images: The current official image

* Third, the modern fortune-telling cards. Characteristics:
* Italian suited (but subjet to variations, such as replacing batons with wands, and coins with disks, rocks or pentacles)
* No indices in corners (might have indices on the top or on the bottom, but these do not help to recognize the cards when fanned.)
* Elaborate artwork in all cards, including minors.
* Artwork in all cards conforms to the divinatory meanings. Often reflects more the artist's interpretation of the meaning than some "established standard".

Used for fortune-telling.

Images: 126026, 115971, 127546

Thread: Re: Internet filters may lead to censorship of tarot card game!

Aldaron — 2006-10-11T19:09:45+00:00

SonicWall's filters are terrible and end up blocking all kids of things for no good reason I can discern. Still, they're much better than nothing -- you just have to keep adding sites to the "allow" list as you encounter them.

Thread: Internet filters may lead to censorship of tarot card game!

General Snafu — 2006-10-11T19:02:23+00:00

I have discovered that some internet filters such as SonicWall have been miscategorising card game websites as "cult/occult" or some similar erroneous category. SonicWall categorised letarot.net and tarotux.org, sites where one may download programs for the French Tarot card game as "cult/occult" To SonicWall's credit I was able to test the websites and place them correctly in the "games" category. I had to do the same thing a while back for webtarot.fr as it too was incorrectly classified.
According to SonicWall's e-mail correspondence, it takes a few business days for changes to take effect.

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

bwingrave — 2006-10-10T17:03:31+00:00

First, there was a geeklist about bad representative images. Then, I contacted one of the moderators. Perhaps others did, as well. Now there is a different (and better, I think) representative image.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/126112

It should show up as the default image for geeklists now, although it is not the most popular image in the gallery, in terms of thumbs, so it won't show up as the default image on the game's main page. (Until more people thumb it, that is....)

Thread: New Geeklist: Games with bad representative images

General Snafu — 2006-10-09T20:11:38+00:00

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist.php3?action=view&listi...

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

Keng Ho — 2006-10-09T15:21:35+00:00

I am in complete agreement.
Divinatory cards should not be used as the representative image for the game. They are in no way representative of the game.

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

camisdad — 2006-10-08T07:32:03+00:00

The Doktor is totally right. I have played literally thousands of games of tarot (most of them in college...) - I can tell you that nobody plays the game with fortune tarot cards. The decks match but the images on the cards are totally different.

Let's take this image off! It has nothing to do with the game.

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

General Snafu — 2006-10-08T06:02:11+00:00

"Not to be confused with divinatory tarot" This is the first phrase in the description of this game. Why is that hard for you people who are voting for that misleading image to understand?

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

General Snafu — 2006-10-06T07:40:10+00:00

I am 100% in agreement with Minok regarding the inappropriateness of the fortune telling cards. I would propose that the fortune telling card images be deleted not because of any objections of mine to the "occult" but on the grounds that such cards are used for the "wrong game"

In the correct modern tarot playing deck: the suits are hearts, clubs, diamonds, and spades; the court cards are double ended; the fool card, also double ended, depicts a musician and has stars on the corners; and the trumps have arabic numbers on the corners and depict arbitrary lifestyle scenes quite distinct from the fortune telling conventions.

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

Smougman — 2006-09-29T13:03:22+00:00

I think the problem is that a lot of people don't realize that Tarot is a game first, and was adapted to be a fortune telling tool. So when people see "Tarot" their first reaction (especially in the states) is to assume the fortune telling stuff.

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

bwingrave — 2006-09-19T18:12:48+00:00

I confess I have not played this game. I have played Gnostica, which deals with the problems of tarot card identification by adding index information to the corners of the cards.

I would be interested in seeing which image is seen as most representative by people who have played this game. My suspicion is that the people declining the various non-fortunetelling images haven't played the game, but are basing their decision on photo composition/quality.

Regarding the suboptimal components issue: One could play Lost Cities with standard playing cards. I submit that a photo of such a session should not be the representative image of the game, though.

b

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

jellospike — 2006-09-19T17:31:29+00:00

Many images in the gallery are from fortune-telling decks; I don't know why this specific image should not have been approved. As far as I know, a fortune-telling deck is the original, if a bit unpractical, way to play the game. It would not be the first game with sub-optimal components...

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

bwingrave — 2006-09-19T13:21:48+00:00

MattDP's posted review of the game indicates that it *may* be played with a fortunetelling deck, but it is more usual to play it with a deck designed for the game. I speculate that using a fortunetelling deck is suboptimal because such decks do not typically have card indicators in the upper left corner; as such, it may be necessary to look at a whole card in order to tell which card it is. When using a fortunetelling deck for fortunetelling, I believe one usually looks at the whole card (rather than just the corner), so it is not necessary to have a card indicator in the corner.

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

jellospike — 2006-09-19T03:27:18+00:00

And what exactly is wrong with this image?

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that the game of tarot is played with the exact same deck of cards you would use for divination...

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

meta87 — 2006-09-19T03:20:22+00:00

Well I voted to approve your new representative image. Hope it gets through.

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

Minok — 2006-09-19T02:19:02+00:00

Cool. Democracy in action. I'd have never found that menu in a zillion years.

How long does the voting take?

Now how does one supply an argument with thier representative image?

The issue in this case is that whomever the users are, are voting for the wrong image. The current image for Tarot is fortune telling tarot cards, but the game here is a card game, I'm pretty sure, and it seems not possible to get one of the numerous Tarot card game images to become the representative image. That those fortune telling cards ever got voted in as the official image is strange. Something is amiss here - either the fortune telling cards need to go or the card game images need to go to thier own proper game ... we've got them all mixed up.

I tried submitting a new image , but it got voted down pretty quick. I"m wondering of the people voting just dont' get or know that there is a card game called Tarot that has nothing to do with the fortune telling cards, which really have no place on the website, as a non-game.

Thread: Re: Who approved that official image?

SteveK2 — 2006-09-16T08:20:17+00:00

That would be us, the bgg users.

To propose an image as being representative, click the [propose] link beneath the picture when looking at it in ImageBrowser.

This proposed change then goes to GeekMod, where users vote yes/no on whether to accept or reject the change. If you want to join in this process, you'll find it under the Misc/GeekMod menu.

Thread: Who approved that official image?

Minok — 2006-09-16T07:35:34+00:00

I'm curious, who approves these things?

How can a picture of 3 fortune telling cards - which only share the name and shape of the cards, with the tarot card game, get approved for the representative image?

Thread: Google ads? "psychic source?" This is a card game,LOL

General Snafu — 2006-05-07T08:36:37+00:00

Shouldn't there be an ad for something game related since this is the BoardGameGeek?

Thread: English Translation of "official" FFT Rules

General Snafu — 2006-02-15T08:23:32+00:00

Rules for the French Game of Tarot

Complete English translation by James D. Wickson from the website of the Fédération Française de Tarot (FFT)

"http://www.ff-tarot.com/

The Cards

The game of Tarot is played with 78 cards:

- Four suits; Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, and Clubs. Each suit consists of 14 cards ranking in descending order; the Roi (King), the Dame (Queen), the Cavalier (Knight), and the Valet (Jack), (constituting the Honors or Habillés), 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1.

- Twenty one cards are assigned a number: in fact the Trumps (Atouts) rank higher than the suit cards.

The number indicates the rank of each Trump; the highest being the 21, and the lowest being the 1 (called Petit or Little Man).

- Finally, the Excuse (Fou), a card marked with a star and depicting a mandoline player, is a kind of "joker" exempting the obligation to play the required suit or Trump.

The 21, the Petit and the Excuse are the 3 Oudlers (or 3 Bouts "end-points"). It is around these 3 cards, that all strategy of the Tarot game revolves.

Value of each card

1 Oudler(or Bout: 21 - Petit - Excuse)= 4½ each
1 Roi(King)= 4½ each
1 Dame(Queen)= 3½ each
1 Cavalier(Knight)= 2½ each
1 Valet(Jack)= 1½ each
Any other card = ½ each

One counts the cards in pairs to facilitate the calculation

1 Oudler + 1 small card = 5 pts.
1 King + 1 small card = 5 pts.
1 Queen + 1 small card = 4 pts.
1 Knight+ 1 small card = 3 pts.
1 Jack+ 1 small card = 2 pts.
2 small cards of a suit or Trump =1 pt.

Principles of Play

Tarot is played by four players. It may also, however, be played by 3 players with some alterations in the rules.

Tarot is at the same time an individual and a team game.

Indeed, during the play, one of the players, called the Preneur (or taker) plays alone against the three others, the defenders, who play as a team (the Defense). But this alliance may not last beyond one deal. It may be constituted differently for subsequent deals.

After acknowledging his game, a player may contract to reach a certain number of points while playing against his three allied opponents.

How many points does the Preneur have to score in order to fulfill the contract? That depends on the number of Oudlers counted as won tricks at the end of a played deal.

Points to be scored
Without any Oudlers-56 points are needed
With one Oudler-51 points are needed
With two Oudlers-41 points are needed
With three Oudlers-36 points are needed

This table shows us the considerable importance of Oudlers. The 21 and the Excuse cannot change sides.

Note however, the Excuse should not be played at the last trick, except in the event of Chelem (Slam). The Excuse, if played at the last trick, changes sides.

The Petit, however, is vulnerable. The Preneur can lose it or take it. Opponents may chase or hunt for the Petit (Chasse au Petit).

The Deal

Before the first deal, the cards are spread out, face down, and each player randomly draws a card.

The dealer is the one with the lowest ranked card. In the event of a tie between two equally ranked cards, one observes the following ranking among the suits: Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, and Clubs ; the 1 of Clubs is thus the lowest ranked card.

The Trumps rank higher than the suit cards, but the Excuse does not count: it is necessary to discard it in this case and draw another card.

The cards are shuffled by the player seated opposite the dealer.

The player on the left of the dealer must then cut the cards (with each section containing more than 3 cards).

The dealer deals the cards, 3 at a time per person, in a counter-clockwise direction. During the deal, the dealer deals cards individually to a stock of 6 cards called the Chien (Dog). It is a violation to deal the first or the last card of the deck to the Chien.

In the event of a misdeal, the dealer redeals, but may not bid this round.

A card turned over by the dealer at the time of the deal is a misdeal if it involves an honor card and/or a Trump. In such a case, the dealer redeals and may not bid.

Any card turned over by a non dealing player at the time of the deal results in a new deal by the same dealer. This would perhaps be a penalty given by the referee to the player having picked up his cards before the end of the deal.

The players pick up their cards only when the deal is finished. In the event of a misdeal, each player returns his hand without looking at it; one thus avoids regrets and bad feelings.

The right to deal passes in turn in the same counter-clockwise direction as play of the game.

Bidding

Once the cards are dealt, each player takes note of his hand. It is not essential to organize one's hand before the end of the bidding phase, but for a beginner, a well organized hand allows for a more precise evaluation.

The player on the dealer's right speaks first. If he says "I pass", the right to bid passes to the right hand neighbor of this player, and so forth, to the dealer.

If all four players pass, the player on the right-hand side of the dealer proceeds to a new deal.

But if a player bids, estimating that his hand enables him to play alone against three united opponents, then that player says "prise", "garde", "garde sans le chien" or "garde contre le chien".

The other players, in turn, may overcall this first bid with a higher bid. Each player speaks only once.

The bids in ascending order are:

The PRISE, with an average hand which allows hope for only approximately 50% chance of success and which is often based on the hope of encountering a very good Chien, is also called the "Petite" and is not as highly valued as the Garde. This contract may be omitted during tournaments.

The GARDE can be a higher bid after the Prise of an opponent. It is generally, however, the first bid, as the Preneur considers his chances of success much higher then his risks of failure.

The GARDE SANS LE CHIEN. With a very good hand, the Preneur estimates that he can carry out his contract without the Chien during play, as the cards were not exchanged. The points of the Chien, however, are counted towards the Preneur at the end of play and constitute a certain reserve of safety. Naturally, no player may look at the Chien while this contract is played.

The GARDE CONTRE LE CHIEN. With an exceptional hand, the Preneur begins to carry out his contract without the aide of the Chien. The points of the Chien will count towards the Defense.

Chelem (Slam)

To achieve Chelem successfully, it is necessary to win all the tricks.

Perhaps one will play for years without ever experiencing this extremely rare stroke.

The Chelem can be declared by the Preneur in addition to his contract and the points are counted according to the required contract and a bonus (or a penalty) is added depending on the success (or the failure) of this Chelem:

Chelem announced and achieved: additional bonus of 400 points.

Chelem not announced but achieved: additional bonus of 200 points.

Chelem announced but not achieved: 200 points are subtracted from the total.

In the event of a Chelem announcement, the player making the announcement leads the first trick and becomes Preneur, regardless of who is the dealer.

In order for a Chelem to succeed, the one announcing it must win all tricks and must play the Excuse in the final trick. Consequently, "Petit au bout" will be counted if the Petit wins the second to last trick.

Paradoxically, it may happen that the Defense achieves Chelem against the Preneur. In this case, each defender receives, in addition to the normal score, a bonus of 200 points

The Chien and the Discard

On a Prise or a Garde, when the bidding is finished, the Preneur turns over the 6 cards of the Chien so that each player acknowledges them.

The Preneur incorporates the cards in his hand then discards 6 cards which remain secret during the entire play of the hand and which will be counted towards the won tricks of the Preneur. One may neither discard a King nor a Bout. One may discard Trumps, however, only when it proves necessary. One must then show the discarded Trumps to the Defense.

When the Preneur finishes the discard, he says "play" and the discard may not be further modified or examined

On a Garde Sans or a Garde Contre, the cards of the Chien remain face down.

On a Garde Sans, they are placed in front of the Preneur and will count towards his won tricks.

On a Garde Contre, they are placed in front of the player located opposite the Preneur and will be counted towards the won tricks of the Defense

Declarations

the Poignée (handful) (10, 13 or 15 Trumps)

A player having a Poignée may, if desired, announce it and present it, arranging the Trumps in descending order, completely and only once, right before playing his first card.

With the simple Poignée (10 Trumps) there is a bonus of 20.

With the double Poignée (13 Trumps) there is a bonus of 30.

With the triple Poignée (15 Trumps) there is a bonus of 40.

These bonuses have the same value regardless of the contract.

This bonus is awarded to the victorious side in a played hand.

The Poignée must include ten, thirteen or fifteen Trumps.

When a player has eleven, twelve, fourteen, sixteen or seventeen Trumps, the player hides one or two Trumps of his choice, but complying with this very important rule: the Excuse in the Poignée implies that the player announcing Poignée does not have any other Trumps.

Examples

The Preneur presents a double Poignée.

If he wins, each defender gives him, in addition to the normal score, a bonus of 30. If he loses, it is he who gives this bonus to each defender, in addition to the normal score.

A defender presents ten Trumps. If the Preneur wins, each defender gives him a bonus of 20. If the Preneur loses, each defender receives a bonus of 20.

Petit au Bout (Petit at the Last Trick)

If the Petit is played at the last trick, it is called "Petit au bout."

The side winning this trick, receives a bonus of 10, multiplied by the value of the contract, regardless of who wins the deal.

Examples:

The Preneur bids Garde Sans. A defender achieves "Petit au bout," winning the last trick with the Petit. The Preneur gives a bonus of 10 x 4 = 40 to each defender. If, in spite of the loss of the Petit, the Preneur wins his contract, the bonus is then subtracted from his profit or positive points.

The Preneur bids Prise. A defender achieves "Petit au bout," winning the last trick with the Petit. The Preneur gives a bonus of 10 to each defender. If the Preneur wins the contract, he nevertheless gives the bonus, deducting it from his profit.

Petit Sec (Dry Petit)

A player having the Petit without any other Trump and not having the Excuse must announce this fact, displaying his hand and annuling the deal before the bidding commences.

Card Play

The Preneur having finished the discard, says "Play".

The first trick is led by the player located on the right of the dealer. Then each player plays in turn in a counter-clockwise direction.

The player having having won the first trick leads the next trick, and so forth. The game proceeds according to following rules:

With a Trump, one is obliged to exceed the highest Trump already played, even if it belongs to a partner. A player not having a Trump exceeding the highest one played, plays a Trump of his choice; in general, the smallest. It is said the player, playing a small Trump, "pisse" (or "tinkles").

With a suit card, one is obliged to play a card of the suit led, but not required to exceed it.

One is obliged to play a Trump if he does not have a card of the suit led. If a preceding player also Trumps, one is obliged to over-Trump (to play a higher Trump) or to under-Trump (to tinkle) if one cannot over-Trump.

One reneges (plays a card of his choice) if he has neither a card of the suit led nor a Trump.

If the card led to a trick is the Excuse, it is the next card played which determines the suit led.

The Excuse may not win a trick (except in the event of Chelem), but it still belongs to the side holding it. If the opposing side wins the trick containing the Excuse , the holder of the Excuse must replace it in the trick by any small card (any card, including a Trump, valued at ½ points) taken from the tricks won by his side.

In the event of a successful Chelem without the Preneur having the Excuse, this card is played normally and remains with the side of the Defense and accounts for 4 points.

The tricks won by the Defense must be collected by the player seated opposite the preneur.

As long as a trick was not collected, any player may examine the preceding trick.

A player should never play a card before his turn.

Calculation of the Scores

At the end of the played deal, one counts the points contained in the won tricks of the Preneur for one total, and those of the Defense as another total.

To win the contract, the Preneur must score a minimum number of points according to the number of Bouts that he has acquired at the end of the played deal.

In the event of Garde Sans, it is possible for the Preneur to acquire a Bout with the Chien.

If the number of points is equal to this minimum, the contract is barely achieved; if the number of points is higher, the additional points are profit (positive); if the number of points is lower, the contract has not been achieved and the score is counted as a loss (negative).

Any contract arbitrarily being worth 25 points, one adds 25 points with the number of scored points, positive or negative.

This new total is multiplied by a coefficient according to the appropriate contract:

in the event of Prise, this total is unchanged,

in the event of Garde, this total is multiplied by two,

in the event of Garde Sans, this total is multiplied by four,

in the event of Garde Contre, this total is multiplied by six.

Each Defender scores the same number of points: negative if the Preneur wins, or positive if the Preneur fails.

The Preneur counts three times this total; as positive if he wins, or as negative if he fails.

The total of the four scores of the Preneur and the three Defenders is, thus, equal to 0.

Examples of scoring points:

The Preneur bids Garde, presents a Poignée of 10 Trumps. He achieves Petit au bout and scores 49 points by holding two Bouts.

He thus proceeds from 49 - 41 = 8.

25 (contract) + 8 = 33 multiplied by 2 (Garde) = 66.

Poignée = 20, and Petit au bout 2 x 10 = 20.

66 + 20 + 20 = 106

Each Defender scores -106 and the Preneur scores 3 x 106 = +318.

The Preneur fufills Garde Sans by 4 points, but the Petit au bout is achieved by the Defense (25 + 4) x 4 (Garde Sans) = 116, but it is necessary to deduct 40 for the Petit au bout.

The Preneur scores +228 and each Defender scores -76.

The Preneur fails Prise by 7 after having presented a Poignée of 10 Trumps, but achieving Petit au bout.

Each Defender scores 25 + 7 + 20 ( Poignée) - 10 (Petit au bout) = +42.

The Preneur scores -42 x 3 = -126.

The Preneur wins Garde by 11. The Defense presented a Poignée.

(25 + 11) x 2 (Garde) = 72, plus 20 from Poignée paid by the Defense).

Total =92.

The Preneur scores +276 and each Defender scores -92.

On a Garde, the Preneur announces and achieves Chelem, shows a Poignée of 10 Trumps and achieves Petit au bout. The Defense retains the Excuse with which they started.

With 2 Bouts, the Preneur earns 87 points. He wins by 87 - 41 = 46. (46+25) x 2 (Garde)+ 20 (Poignée) + 20 (Petit au bout) + 400 (announced Chelem) = 582.

Each Defender scores -582.

The Taker scores +582 x 3 = +1746.

Tarot for 3 Players

The rules are the same as for the game for 4, but the cards are dealt 4 at a time per person.

Each player receives 24 cards, the Chien 6 cards.

The contracts are identical to the game for 4 players

The Poignées are: simple: 13 Trumps; double: 15 Trumps; triple: 18 Trumps

It is not necessary to provide a low valued card to supplement the trick involving the Excuse. This rule is worthy only to insure an even number of cards per side. Among three players, it is indeed uncertain to have an even number of cards to be counted at the time of calculation.

At the time of calculation, it is necessary to round off the half point. Thus, a Preneur who was to make 41, loses if he makes 40.5. The round-off is done, then, by always privileging the side which scores points. Thus in the preceding case, the Preneur loses by 1 point. Conversely, if he had made 41.5, he would have won by 1 point.

If the Preneur misses by 1/2 point, he has failed to fufill the contract.

Tarot for 5 Players

The cards are dealt, counter-clockwise, 3 cards at a time per person. Each player receives 15 cards and 3 cards are dealt to the Chien.

The contracts are identical to the games with 3 or 4 players

The Poignées are: simple: 8 Trumps; double: 10 Trumps; triple: 13 Trumps

Before turning over the Chien, the Preneur calls a King of his choice and the holder of this King becomes his partner.

If the Preneur has the 4 Kings, he calls a Queen, or a Knight if he also has the 4 Queens.

If the chosen King is with the Chien, then the game is played 1 against 4.

The first trick may not be led in the suit chosen by the Preneur unless this trick is led by the suit's King.

The distribution of the points (including the bonuses of Poignée and/or Petit au bout) is divided 2/3 for the Preneur and 1/3 for his partner. If the Preneur plays 1 against 4, he combines the totality of the points as + or - according to his success or failure.

If the Preneur misses by 1/2 point, he has failed to fulfill the contract

Thread: 3 Hoyles Computer version

fripono — 2005-10-15T10:12:54+00:00

If anyone's interested, the 3 Hoyles PC software includes (along with chess, backgammon casino games and dozens of others) a decent Tarot simulation, with good card graphics, 3 skill levels and comprehensive rules and tutor mode. It's currently on sale in the UK for £4-99.

Thread: Tarot Review

MattDP — 2005-09-26T09:39:27+00:00

Tarot is a card game that belongs very firmly to the trick-taking bid-making family hut with a very curious twist - it's played with a deck of tarot cards! Although one can play with "mystical" tarot cards it's more usual to play with a deck made specifically for the tarot game. This has the normal four suites, each of which has an extra court card the "cavalier" which comes between queen and jack, plus a fith suite "trumps" which have numeric values from 1-21. Tarot is a french game and the court cards are normally labelled as R (King), D (Queen), C (Cavalier) and V (Jack). There is also a Joker which is used in play. Most tarot game decks that I've seen have unusually tall, thin cards. Tarot is usually played with 4 players, but can be played with 3-5.

Some players insist that the Tarot deck should never be shuffled, only cut. Others will shuffle. In both cases the cards are dealt to the 3-5 players three cards at a time rather than one at a time. Both these practices are designed to reduce the randomness of the deal and ensure that at least one player gets a good enough hand to bid and lead the game - more on this shortly. During the deal the player must deal six cards singly into the center of the table rather than to another player and these are known as the "dog".

Having looked at their cards, each player must then decided whether he will bid and lead the game. In order to do this the player must have a good hand because he'll be playing against the majority of the other players as a team. In 3 and 4 player tarot the player that wins the bid plays against a team consisting of the other 2/3 players. In five player tarot the game can either be one against a team of four, or two against a team of three depending on the bid. The possible values of the bid rise from small to large, then large with a blind "dog" and large against the "dog". If a player does not think he can lead the game then he can pass and if all the players do this the cards are re-dealt. Once a player has made a bid of a certain value, any other player wishing to bid must bid higher and it's normal that only one player will bid with the others passing.

If the lead player bid small or large in a five player game he must then call a suite. The player who holds the king of that suite is then the partner of the lead player, playing in a team of two against the other three. This player does not declare himself and none of the other players know who he is until he reveals himself by playing the king although it is usual for skilled players to have worked this out before the king is shown. Of course, if the lead player holds all four kings then the suite he calls is immaterial and he must play along against the other four but he must call one anyway to stop the other players knowing he has such a strong hand.

In all sized games, if the lead player bid small or large then the next step is to turn over the dog, revealing the six cards to all the players. The lead player can then take these cards into his hand and he may choose any six from his hand to put back into the dog which is then placed faced down in front of him. He counts as having won these cards and they take no further part in the game. In a five-player game it is possible to find that the king that has been called is in the dog, and the lead player must then play alone against the other four.

The higher bids all hinge on the lead player not being able to use the dog effectively. In a blind dog bid the lead player simply counts as having won the cards - he cannot exchange them with cards in his hand. If he plays against the dog then the team who are not leading the game count as winning the cards in the dog. A player must have a very strong hand to play a game without use of the dog and these bids are not common. However, tarot is scored by round and a player who succeeds in winning the game after such a high bid will get a much higher score than one who bids lower.

Once this whole intricate process is sorted out, play then proceeds much as in any other trick taking game. Play starts to the left of the dealer, suites must be followed and if a player is out of the suite lead he is obliged to play a trump. If a trump has already been played (or lead) then each successive trump laid down must be of a higher value than the preceeding trump so long as the player has a higher value trump to lay. The joker is a special card - it can be played at any time and when played it cannot win the hand but the player who played the joker always gets the card back rather than the player who wins the hand.

At the end of the game, the lead player totals up the points that he has won. Kings count as 5 and then each royal card is one less down to a Jack, worth two. Most other cards are worth half a point each. However there are three special cards called "Oudlers" or point cards which are the one of trumps, the 21 of trumps and the joker. Each of these is worth five points and posession determines the points needed to win the game. If the lead player has all three he must reach 36 points to win. Two and he needs 41. With just the one he needs 51 points and without any he needs 56. It is virtually impossible to win without any of the point cards. One final bonus - if the one of trumps is played on the last hand and wins the trick then that player gets an extra ten points.

If the lead player has the points needed then he wins, otherwise the other players win. If he has won then his total score is multiplied by 1 (for a small bid), two (for a large bid), four (without the dog) or six (against the dog) and then this grand total is deducted from the scores of the other players while the total of the deductions is added to the score of the lead player.

Tactical play in Tarot centers around marking which cards have been played and when in an attempt to win kings, queens and the 1 of trumps from the player holding these cards. The other royal cards are considered of lesser value and the other two points cards cannot be won off the holding player. Attempts to win the 1 of trumps usually consist of one team constantly leading trumps to try and flush out the card. Play with royal cards is less straightforward as each side must try and guess when a player is witholding a royal card for fear of loosing it by being trumped or by play of a higher card. Sometimes the players may try and flush out such a card by leading the suite. Other times one team may try and set up the conditions for another team member to safely play the card - such as the situation when the lead player has cards of the suite left but one of the other players is cutting in trumps, guaranteeing a win for the opposing properly.

Tarot is an entertaining and surprisingly addictive game. It's addictive quality stems largely from the anticipation of waiting to see if your hand is strong enough to lead the game. It's fairly simple bidding system and opportunity for fairly in-depth tactical play makes it an excellent balance between heavier bidding games like Bridge and the gamut of lighter card games that tend to be played at dinner parties.

Thread: Student House Rules

greuh — 2005-01-15T15:34:49+00:00

Tarot is the most played game by students in France. Old persons in France tend to play "belote", but the belote is less played by students than tarot.
Here are collected house rules I've seen (and mostly use) from my student's years. Forgive my limited english, if you have any question, feel free to ask.

1/Playing from 3 to 6 players:
#-----------------------------
Normally, Tarot is played with 4 players, one who takes, and others who want to take him down. Not very satisfying during lunch pauses as students are numerous

When you play at 3, one player takes, the two others try to take him down.
24 cards per player, 6 cards given to "le chien" (the dog)
"Poignée" is at twelve trumps. (15 -double poignée-,18 -triple poignée-)

Another way to play at 4 is to play 2 vs 2 instead of 1 vs 3. Makes the game really easier. The taker calls for an Ace BEFORE taking a look to the dog. If the called ace is in the dog, he plays alone. If another player has the called ace, he becomes the partner of the caller: they lose or win together. He is NOT forced to reveal himself until the ace is played.
Poignet is at 10 trumps (13,15)

5 players:
3 cards to the dog, 15 cards to each player.
It is played 3 vs 2: the calling is the same than in 2 vs 2 except that the taker calls for a King.
Poignet is at 8 trumps (11,13)

6 players (dismissed by most as uninteresting, which I agree):
12 card to each player, 6 cards to the dog
3 vs 3: taker calls a King and a Queen
4 vs 2: calls a king
Poignet is at 6 trumps (8,10)

2/Little house rules:
#--------------------
a) the three "bouts" (excuse, trumps 1 and 21) cannot be played in the same "pli" (take) If two have been played, then the third can't be played at this turn.
b)the dog can be dealt in only ONE time. It cannot have the first and last card of the deck, even.
c)a player cuts the deck, the following deals, the other calls first and begins. Then this order is changed by one seat
d)Petite, Garde, Garde Sans, Garde Contre and Schelem are the official calls, but students have:
- pousse/prise: if no other takes, this player do (forces the game to be played) and his call becomes a Petite.
- students don't use Schelem, but use "Petit Schelem" and "Grand Schelem". I don't remember the point value of them, since most student games are played without counting points (mine are, at least). You don't have to announce them at the bidding. In fact, it is an extension of your announcement. You can announce "Petit Schelem" until 5 turns before the end, and the "Grand Schelem" until 3 turns before the end. To be succesful, the announcer of "Petit Schelem" can only lose 3 "plis" (takes, turns) or he loses the game. Same for "Grand Schelem", but only ONE (pli, take, turn) or he loses the game.
e) you cannot put a King to the Dog if you don't show it to all players to announce it.
f) "Misère" (ou "Blanc" - blank) is called when you have no figures nor trump. "Misère de têtes" is called when you have no figures, "Misère d'atouts" is called when you have no trumps. Those translate in Misery, Heads Misery and Trumps Misery. Those calls give your team a defined quantity of points as soon as they're announced.

That's the way the tarot is played by students, as far as I know.
Loris.

Thread: Re:Rules queries

greuh — 2005-01-15T15:10:20+00:00

JohnC (#59528),
There are many, many unofficial rules to this game.

It is maybe the game I have most played because it is the standard student game in France (juste before Belote).

To answer your questions:
(1) No difference between the "PetitE" and the Garde, except the point value if you win (or lose). It is "Petite". "Petit" is used to name the n°1 trump.

(2)(a) and (b) are nearly right, lemme explain:
- if a suit is lead and you *cannot* play a card of this suit, you *have* to play a trump. If a trump has already been played, you *have* to play a bigger trump if you can. If you can't, you *have* to play a lower trump. If again you can't, you may play any card.
- if a trump is lead: you *have* to play a bigger trump than the last one played if you can. If you can't, you *have* to play a lower trump. If again you can't, you may play any card (throw away).

I have to post student house rules to tarot as an article itself.

Loris.

Thread: Re:Rules queries

General Snafu — 2004-11-10T04:19:59+00:00

JohnC (#59528),

Interesting, this question comes up. I've recently translated the "official" FFT rules for Tarot into English

Although my French is still quite limited, I think this does the task as far as providing us with the complete rules of the game

http://www.geocities.com/tarotgame/FrenchTarotRules.html

btw "petit" is the name for the 1 of Trumps and "petite" is another name for the lowest bid "prise"
Yes, the only difference between "prise" and "garde" is in the ranking of these bids and the scoring. There are many players who prefer to omit "prise" from the bidding to allow "garde" as the minimum bid.

Thread: Re:Rules queries

fripono — 2004-10-22T14:59:13+00:00

JohnC (#59741),

Colloquially, "un petit" is often used in France to mean the smallest bid - i.e. la prise. I have also heard players say "je pousse" (I push) to indicate this contract.

Thread: Re:Rules queries

fripono — 2004-10-22T14:01:58+00:00

JohnC (#59528),

Hi John. Yes, you are correct that the only difference between La Prise and La Garde is in the points value of the gamble.

Il faut monter un atout simply means that when a trump is played, you have to play a higher trump if you can. If you do not possess a higher trump you must play a lower one. If you have no trumps, you can discard any card. Thus if it is your partner playing the trump and you are trumpless, it is best to discard a high-scoring card to keep the points in your "camp".

If you have no card of the suit led, you are obliged to play a trump if you hold one. In this manner the 1 of trumps can be won or lost and the hunt for the 1 (la chasse au petit) is one of the most interesting aspects of each hand.

Sorry that my basic translation as posted wasn't sufficiently explicit! I am happy to answer any more queries you may have.

Regards,
- frip

Thread: Re:Rules queries

JohnC — 2004-10-14T02:53:44+00:00

Sorry, a misprint. by 'petit' I clearly meant 'prise'.

Thread: Rules queries

JohnC — 2004-10-13T07:08:09+00:00

I first saw this game (78 card version, Grimaud deck) played in the Bourgogne region of France, where it must be very popular. Many years ago I was able to get a couple of decks, and have enjoyed playing it with friends.

A couple of things in the rules that someone familiar with the game may be able to help with:

(1) The 'petit' and the 'garde' -- is the difference between these two bids merely the greater gamble? There is no obvious difference in play nor in the way the cards are scored, but only in the score award for the hand as a whole. Is that correct?

(2) In the French rules, there is a phrase that is a little unsettling for an Anglophone bridge/whist player: 'Il faut monter en atout'. Just exactly how does trump play differ from that in whist games?
(a) Does the phrase mean that if one cannot follow to the suit lead, one is obliged to play an atout? If a suit lead is already trumped, is one obliged to over-trump (or may one under-trump, which is hardly 'monter')? Under what circumstances may one 'throw away'?
(b) Does the phrase mean that if an atout is lead, one is obliged to play a higher one if possible? if the 9 of clubs is lead, one may clearly follow with the 7 of clubs rather than risk one's chevalier. But if the 9 atout is lead, must one play 12 atout rather than 7 atout?

I am afraid my French is functional, but very limited, and I did not find that the English rules translation posted here really cleared up these queries.

Neither of my decks have much in the way of spots left on the cards, and even the backing pattern is badly worn. I must get a new deck or two -- they have not proved easy to find here in Oz!