Game: Warmachine

Thread: Re: Warmachine Miniatures

kingbobb — 2008-11-19T16:55:58+00:00

Not sure what Citadel minis people are thinking about, but PP models tend to be larger. WFB/40K games feature a lot of man-sized scale models. Limbs and additions won't have the heft that requires pinning or a better attachment than superglue provides. PP Jack/warbeast models are much bigger, and often come with wasp waists, especially the 'Jacks. It's not an issue of quality, it's an issue of physics and the artistic theme used in the game. I pin the larger pieces, and just use epoxy for all my joins.

Larger models like dragons and such often have joins that cover a larger surface area, eliminating the need for pinning.

Thread: Re: Warmachine Miniatures

Bluenose — 2008-11-19T16:41:48+00:00

Interesting. I've been model making for 20 years and never had to resort to pinning a model, even the huge dragons I used to make.

I epoxy fill the space for the limbs to go into on the current models, ram the limb into the still flexible putty, and remove. I allow the putty to dry and Presto! It's the right size for the limb.
My issue really is that I've NEVER had to do that with a citadel miniature, but am hearing it mentioned all the time with Privateer stuff.
I think the tolerances they're working too are too slack. A reall bummer considering the price they are asking for the models.

Thread: Re: Warmachine Miniatures

KillMeForPrizes — 2008-11-19T15:56:57+00:00

As an option to pinning - which can be very tricky on some of these and often gives little room for error I will suggest an alternative.

Use 2 part epoxy - the fast drying 5 minute kind.

Seriously. I wasted so much time pinning and gap filling when I first started putting together WM and Hordes models and then I tried epoxy and it is SO much better in my option.

Being that it is thick it self gap fills and holds very strong - much stronger than pinning + regular cyanoacrylate glue. Its great for the smaller models with more delicate joints where a pinning mistake can ruin the model and for the warjacks it holds hard as hell. I have knocked over my Khador Behemoth a number of times (yes I am a klutz - but that model has serious balance issues) and never even knocked anything loose.

If you have no problems with pinning - go right ahead, it is a good way. But if you are like me and time is short and you have a much greater chance of pinning yourself with the dremel than the model I suggest tring some 2 part epoxy.

Thread: Re: Warmachine Miniatures

Asmoridin — 2008-11-19T15:27:14+00:00

UniversalHead wrote:
I haven't come across this problem, but I suggest pinning your parts together (a good technique for any multipart model), then puttying any gaps before priming. Standard practice for large multipart models really, and Warmachine miniatures are generally for more experienced miniature painters/modellers.

Yeah, same suggestion- get used to pinning, and those babies won't need any putty. They look great once pinned (and you'll be so used to pinning that you'll be doing it about 3 times as often with your citadel models!).

Thread: Re: Warmachine Miniatures

UniversalHead — 2008-11-19T12:18:50+00:00

I haven't come across this problem, but I suggest pinning your parts together (a good technique for any multipart model), then puttying any gaps before priming. Standard practice for large multipart models really, and Warmachine miniatures are generally for more experienced miniature painters/modellers.

Thread: Warmachine Miniatures

Bluenose — 2008-11-19T09:00:04+00:00

Love the game. Hate the models.

Is it just me that is seriously irritated by the build quality of the multi-part miniatures? Having been used to Citadel miniatures where the tolerances on limbs was often so tight they needed filing down, these miniatures are VERY slack. I'm having to use a lot of putty to fill the joints and stop the arms / body from falling off.
Dave has christened one of his Menorth Warjacks "Jive Bunny" because the body wobbles around so much! (He didn't use putty)
Sorry Privateer Press...not impressed

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framorin — 2008-11-09T21:02:51+00:00

Warmachine in Expojuegos Fusion Nov, 08 2008 Santiago

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framorin — 2008-11-09T21:02:21+00:00

Warmachine in Expojuegos Fusion Nov, 08 2008 Santiago

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framorin — 2008-11-09T21:01:30+00:00

Warmachine in Expojuegos Fusion Nov, 08 2008 Santiago

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

Nazhuret — 2008-10-19T21:23:52+00:00

*shrug*

Whatever.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

phaelog — 2008-10-17T20:02:39+00:00

I imply nothing. If I have something to say to someone I'll be quite direct about it. I'd think it would be obvious to anyone reading this thread that Naz had some modicum of interest.

I do find it quite telling that you, Naz, seem to think I was speaking of you. After reading your reply it is now obvious to me that you do, in fact, fit the bill. You are offended by page 5 and the displeasure it causes you to the point that you "don't want to be a part of it." This leads me to the wanton ignorance of your opinions.

You don't play in public settings with random strangers yet you have assumed that the Warmachine community must be filled with raving loons. Your only basis for this reasoning is the Internet. Look at the PA theory you posted. Do I really need to explain how stupid it is to use the Internet as a yardstick for behavior in real life? I have yet to see any of these "large contingent of players" who speak as you say. Poked around a couple forums with Warmachine discussions and saw standard internet communication going on. I did not see the legion of crazies "everywhere I looked." I did see a Warmachine food drive for the needy:

http://www.harvestthralls.org/

Coming to a local store of mine this year, too.

My opinions cannot be right or wrong same as anyone else. Only the self-absorbed see it that way. As I've stated people are welcome to form their own opinions based on their experiences. However, those that wallow in ignorance will form poor opinions. This discussion appears over. The OP added a little background that speaks volumes of his/her thoughts on the topic and then just repeats himself/herself. For the record, I never said I thought page 5 was asinine or immature.

Thread: Re: A beginner's review of WARMACHINE.

Sturmkraehe — 2008-10-13T16:08:34+00:00

Well written review.

The later comments about expense are somewhat accurate, but misleading as the other poster here points out.

Costs are going up for everything. This is a reality that we have to get used to and regardless of whether you are playing WH40k or WM you are going to see the price of your figures increasing to a level that might make you stop and think before picking up that next addition to your unit.

The big difference for WM from WH is that your unit sizes for infantry rarely go above 10 figures and if it does it will be maybe 1 or 2 figures. Often, your units will only have 6 or even 3 units in them. If you are using warjacks (the big robots) you will probably field 2-3 of them at most in a standard sized game. Infantry will typically require you to field 3-5 units depending on which army you are fielding and how large you want/can to build your units.

Relatively speaking, you can still get into Warmachine fairly inexpensively. The expense comes when you decide you want more variety in your army building options and end up buying units that you can rotate in and out of what you are actually putting on the table.

Also, there is no planned obsolescence with Warmachine. With the exception of Prime: Remix there have been no other re-issued books. Remix did not change the game much. It was more of a fine-tuning of the existing rules and incorporation of the errata into the rules. So you won't have to re-buy copies of the rules. There has been no mention of army books or codices being printed that I am aware of. The rumor that PP was going plastic proved false. They went plastic with another game that has nothing to do with Warmachine (Monsterpocalypse). They haven't ruled out plastic, but there is nothing in their planned release schedule that includes plastic figures.

Also, when you buy one of the annually produced upgrades you get several books in one. They have routinely included campaign rules, new unit and leader lists, fluff, painting and modelling technique. When I was playing 40k these were all done in separate books along with a 2-3 year lifespan on the game before the next re-write.

Finally, not one of the units that I play with in my army has become obsolete. They are all still very playable and I still use units from the very first book regularly in my army compositions. There was nothing more frustrating than finding a 40 man unit of beautifully painted (and expensive) minis that I had worked very hard to produce had been written out of the rules. This happened to me with WHFB. Never with WM.

So, yeah, it's more expensive than when it first hit the shelves but be realistic. I'm not sure why the authors of these earlier posts are trying to negatively spin the reviewer's opinion. It's almost like it's an election year.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

Sturmkraehe — 2008-10-13T15:14:57+00:00

King...if page 5 upsets you that much then don't play the game.

Page 5 means different things to different players, but I have yet to see anyone use it as an excuse for anti-social behavior. Most anti-social types I know don't look for excuses in printed word.

If this one page of over-the-top, tongue-in-cheek soapboxing gets your ire up so much that it interferes with your ability to play the game then don't play. Of course, you will be biting your nose off to spite your face but that's your business.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

emceekhan — 2008-10-10T01:16:19+00:00

DaviddesJ wrote:
emceekhan wrote:
I think the point of the matter is that the OP was interested in the game and some boneheaded morons spoiled some of the fun and interest.

Hey. Don't put down the rules author like that.

Out of all the tabletop games I've played, there's not a group more asshattish about being over-the-top competitive and insulting like CCG players, though. This is why I never play Magic or any other CCG in tournaments anymore.

I don't need to sit across from an 11 year-old punk who calls me names and swears like a sailor when we're playing a game. Especially since it takes some effort not to reach across the table and strangle the young idiot.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

Nazhuret — 2008-10-09T23:42:47+00:00

My history with 40K has largely been in "private" games with my friends. I really have no experience with going to a public game session in terms of 40K.

So, while I don't doubt for a second there are and always have been ass hats playing that game I've never personally experienced it.

Recently I've been thinking of getting back into the miniature gaming scene but with a recent rules set and a game that I can get an army together without spending an arm and a leg.
I know that there is no way in hell I can play this game with my current gaming partners. They just wouldn't give a damn about it. So my only recourse would be to play in a game shop. In a "public" setting as it were.

I never EVER read anything so stupid about the players themselves in any single GW publication and I have / had a lot of them. Sure, the fluff fiction was all about being super bad ass and all that but never once was there mention about the players being wimps and going home and all that crap.

It just seems that if a game company is going to set up the atmosphere for their game with something like the page five thingy I don't want to be a part of it.

You imply that I might be offended by it. Hardly! I agree with you in that it's asinine and immature. That's the very reason I wish to avoid it. Offended though? HA! It takes more than this stupid crap to offend me.

You also imply that I am taking umbrage with the page five nonsense after I have already decided I have no interest in the game. You couldn't be farther from the truth.

Thanks for your comments phaelog but I'm afraid you're wrong on most of them.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

phaelog — 2008-10-09T23:04:04+00:00

emceekhan wrote:

I agree. The rules are great and the game is fun. And we play it a lot.

I think the point of the matter is that the OP was interested in the game and some boneheaded morons spoiled some of the fun and interest. Don't listen to the boneheaded morons who think that Page 5 is the entire concept of gameplay. It's competitive and I also believe it was written to be sarcastically funny. Yet, some people can't grasp good sportsmanship in gaming if you stapled the definition to their forehead and held up a mirror when they spoke.

There's a difference between "politically correct" and "sportsmanship." People who give you shit about playing a game for fun have totally missed the mark and drifted out into space.

I'm not at all surprised that there are people who find page 5 offensive. Some people will take umbrage or even work to find it in any written words that haven't been ironed flat into the most humorless, PC friendly language possible. While personally I find that rather silly it's personal opinion and they're entitled to it. What is truly pitiable are those who continually belabor the point even after they have come to the conclusion they no longer have interest in the game. That anyone would spend any measure of time that way is pretty sad.

I bumped into this thread due to the release of the "Legends" book for Warmachine and wanted to see if anyone put up some pictures of some of what I hope to be choice artwork based on the past three books in the line. I believe anything relevant to page 5 has been thoroughly discussed.

My question to the OP are is of curiosity. You appear to be a 40k player. I am as well although I don't play actively anymore. Time, as always, is at a premium. Part of the reason why I jumped into Warmachine, by the way. Set up and gameplay is pretty brisk compared to 40k. Especially the new Hardcore format! Seven minute turns and a 1 hour time-limit. Anyway, I used to play in leagues and tournies for 40k and the people of the ilk you wish to avoid were legion in that game. I've meet strangers and know friends who were total asshats. To be fair they seem to exist in every table top mini game from 40k to HeroClix (ever see a young adult yelling at a 12 year old over his lucky blast with his favorite piece? Sad). Surely you had to have seen this behavior? I played 40k in public settings for almost 15 years and at every venue I've played at there was always "that/those guy/s". I quickly switched to playing 40k only with people I knew were cool or whose behavior was vouched for by people I trusted. I also avoid league play. I know there are good leagues out there but take anything meant to be fun or humorous seriously and someone at sometime invariably gets bent out of shape, much like this page 5 business. Also could you point me out to where these legions of Warmachine retards are congregating online? The Privateer Press forums, which you should look at, don't have legions of these crazies you've unfortunately connected with. These forums are not filled with gibbering baboons and people there are all too willing to help people who are interested in the game.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

DaviddesJ — 2008-10-01T10:28:26+00:00

emceekhan wrote:
I think the point of the matter is that the OP was interested in the game and some boneheaded morons spoiled some of the fun and interest.

Hey. Don't put down the rules author like that.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

emceekhan — 2008-10-01T04:05:25+00:00

nilus wrote:
The point of Page 5 imho is really just about playing an agressive game. A lot of mini games take a defensive approach to the game. Its also about changing your tactics and learning to improve your game(in later page 5s).

Sure it can be taken as being juvenile. And asshole players will take it that way. But those same jerks are the same jerks who quote Space Marine Doctrines like they actually mean something when they play 40K. IE Jerks will find the jerkiest thing in a game and generally be jerky about it.

Overall its one page in a book of great rules. It doesnt seem to turn off many players, male and female. In fact I see more female gamers playing Warmachine then I ever saw play 40K or fantasy.

I agree. The rules are great and the game is fun. And we play it a lot.

I think the point of the matter is that the OP was interested in the game and some boneheaded morons spoiled some of the fun and interest. Don't listen to the boneheaded morons who think that Page 5 is the entire concept of gameplay. It's competitive and I also believe it was written to be sarcastically funny. Yet, some people can't grasp good sportsmanship in gaming if you stapled the definition to their forehead and held up a mirror when they spoke.

There's a difference between "politically correct" and "sportsmanship." People who give you shit about playing a game for fun have totally missed the mark and drifted out into space.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

nilus — 2008-09-30T22:30:26+00:00

The point of Page 5 imho is really just about playing an agressive game. A lot of mini games take a defensive approach to the game. Its also about changing your tactics and learning to improve your game(in later page 5s).

Sure it can be taken as being juvenile. And asshole players will take it that way. But those same jerks are the same jerks who quote Space Marine Doctrines like they actually mean something when they play 40K. IE Jerks will find the jerkiest thing in a game and generally be jerky about it.

Overall its one page in a book of great rules. It doesnt seem to turn off many players, male and female. In fact I see more female gamers playing Warmachine then I ever saw play 40K or fantasy.

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Ghool — 2008-09-19T20:48:46+00:00

Thread: Re: A beginner's review of WARMACHINE.

browncoat2814 — 2008-09-03T23:18:56+00:00

I really don't understand most of the comments posted. The price may be going up, but it's still cheaper than Warhammer. My local game store sells Warjacks at an average price range of $24.99-$34.99...and that's a pretty significant boost to your forces! The fact remains that YOU DON'T NEED AS MANY MODELS TO PLAY! And it's cheaper to actually get into...Depending on who you buy it from, a battlegroup is $34.99-$50, which includes a decent amount of models to get started with and rules...given the fact that Warhammer doesn't offer you to choose which army you get in a starter, I feel that WARMACHINE has it beat there.

Regardless of what you say, it's still 5 times the game that Warhammer is (40k or FB, take your pick).

Thread: Re: A beginner's review of WARMACHINE.

ChildeRoland — 2008-09-03T16:08:45+00:00

Great review!

I had my eye on Warmachine/Hordes and AT-43 at GenCon last year when I was looking to buy into a new miniatures game. I played a demo of Warmachine and Hordes as well as AT-43. I eventually ended up going with AT-43 mainly because the figures were pre-painted and ready to go out of the box.

I have two young children and also have several boxes of unpainted miniatures from other games stacked up and collecting dust. So, for me, it came down to either buying into a game that I can actually get to the table or one that I can only stare longingly at as it sits on the shelf.

I enjoy AT-43 quite a bit but have always been intrigued by the tactical possibilities that this system allows for. Your review has renewed my interest in it.

I like the fact that you can play with a fairly small army. Maybe if I just get a couple of the small starter armies then I can find time to paint them and actually play some. It's also nice to hear that the models fit up nicely without much pinning, filling, touching up, etc. as that will speed up the process a lot.

Thanks again for the review. Now if I can only convince my wife that I need to buy into yet another miniatures game...

Thread: Re: A beginner's review of WARMACHINE.

Asqlep — 2008-09-03T08:23:34+00:00

I am absolutely shocked by the extreme comments made after this review. Rather than actually remark on the authors review, these appear to be little more than inaccurate comments directed at the company which are based on, well, nothing. The actual discovery performed cannot have amounted to much more than what-unsubstantiated-observation-can-I-make-in-order-to-demonstrate-to-others-as-lazy-as-I-am-how-much-I-hate-Privateer-Press.

Let’s actually look at what’s going on here, starting with price.

Examining the regularly updated Product list.pdf file (publicly available here http://www.privateerpress.com/company/default.php?x=retail/s... under the heading Sales Materials), I find the four most recently released infantry unit boxed sets priced at 29.99, 29.99, 32.99, and 35.99. These box sets contain six figures including a unit leader and full colour stat card. This breaks out to anywhere between 5.00 and 6.00 per figure.

This is not to suggest that there are not more expensive unit boxes. There are. Each faction does include unit types which do run at the 10.00 per figure mark as the first commenter mentions. However, to remark on those only and not the entire line is misleading, especially as new releases are clearly priced 40-50% less.

Upcoming single models costing 50.00 to 60.00 are large, multi-part Heavy Warjack character models, huge figures dynamically posed and sculpted with extra embellishments that define their unique position in the game. Examining the product list reveals that Heavy Warjack models (approx. 6 per faction) are priced from 27.99 to 34.99, with one exception that is priced 39.99. There are four others that are priced higher, but these are massive super-heavy models on par with the character models being released.

Here’s an example of a 30.00 model:
http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/gallery/default.php...

and here’s the 60.00 character version of the same type of warjack:
http://www.privateerpress.com/WARMACHINE/gallery/default.php...

Can you spot the difference?

Note also that none of these units are mandatory purchases. This brings me to the second commenter who states that there are “new releases coming out that make older units obsolete. Oh, you can still use them, but why would you want to.” Quite the contrary, there are no new releases coming out that make older obsolete. New and old, you can enjoy and be competitive with units regardless of their release. How can this be?

New releases from Privateer Press don’t replace units - they enhance them. Privateer Press has just released the 5th volume of the Warmachine series. Note that all 5 are not required to play. While new units for each of the four factions are introduced in each volume, the rules for those units can be obtained by simply purchasing a faction deck that includes all the stat cards. All that aside, there’s no way I can demonstrate that each new release does not obsolete old releases without highlighting every unit introduced! Instead, lets take a look at the official Privateer Press forums, where there are dedicated forums for army list discussion.

Checking the Khador list forum, (at the time of writing) the first post contains this list for a 350 point game:

Kommander Sorcha
Kodiak
Berserker
Eyriss, Mage Hunter
Gorman Di Wulfe

These units com from (in order) the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 1st, and 2nd released books.

The second post contains this list:

eVlad
Behemoth
Alexia
Gudrun
Man-O-War Drakhun
Manhunter
Iron Fang Uhlans
Widowmakers
Wintergaurd Mortar Crew
Wintergaurd Mortar Crew

These units com from (in order) the 3rd, 3rd, 4th, (*), 4th, 1st, 4th, 1st, 2nd, and 2nd released books. The (*) indicated Gudrun, a minion / mercenary from Hordes: Evolution, Warmachine’s compatible sister game.

This is a miniscule sample, hardly conclusive, yet demonstrates that figures are used in player's armies continue to receive table time regardless of where they appeared on the release schedule

There is an extensive FAQ and Errata, searchable by a variety methods. That Privateer Press provides these is a good thing - an Errata is necessary for proper gameplay, and an FAQ is just good courtesy. A casual examination of the Errata reveals that a major percentage dealt with the first release - Warmachine: Prime. These are not present in Prime: Remix, the original rulebook’s replacement. Note that this was not a corrected reprint of Prime, but rather a whole new book in full colour with new artwork, fiction, hobby section, and a much higher page count, and only $5 more than the original book.

As for the third commenter, I disagree with his contention that the previous posters stated legitimate concerns (obviously - haha . I disagree because, having been a Privateer Press customer for 5 years, I have not failed to have been satisfied by their product. However, I do agree that it will be very interesting to find out how Privateer Press manages the future, and I do so with confidence that it will be spectacular.

I play many games and paint many models, but if I could play only one, Warmachine would be it.

Thread: Re: A beginner's review of WARMACHINE.

chuckles2000 — 2008-09-03T02:24:26+00:00

menua wrote:
While this is a good miniature game, it is not cheap. With some of the new single models costing $50 - $60 each and a full unit of 10 figures costing over $100 in some cases, their prices are getting very high. Also, there is basically a manual on their web page with all the FAQ's and errata that seems never ending. I agree with most of your review though. Lastly, the future of Warmachine and Privateer looks more and more like GW. Hints at plastics and codex books for armies seems more and more like the company they bashed in order to attract their initial player base. I guess that's what happens when you get big.

This is legitimate criticism. I also think it is simply inevitable. After a game reaches a certain point, the demand for new "stuff" to keep the game fresh for existing players, makes for very difficult decisions in terms of pricing, game balance, obsolesence, etc. It will be very interesting to see how Privateer Press manages it all.

Thread: Re: A beginner's review of WARMACHINE.

nyjil — 2008-09-02T23:11:08+00:00

Warmachine has had multiple price increases. It started out affordable, or let's say more affordable than Warhammer, but it is now just as bad as GW. Expensive, and new releases coming out that make older units obsolete. Oh, you can still use them, but why would you want to.

Thread: Re: A beginner's review of WARMACHINE.

menua — 2008-09-02T19:36:22+00:00

While this is a good miniature game, it is not cheap. With some of the new single models costing $50 - $60 each and a full unit of 10 figures costing over $100 in some cases, their prices are getting very high. Also, there is basically a manual on their web page with all the FAQ's and errata that seems never ending. I agree with most of your review though. Lastly, the future of Warmachine and Privateer looks more and more like GW. Hints at plastics and codex books for armies seems more and more like the company they bashed in order to attract their initial player base. I guess that's what happens when you get big.

Thread: A beginner's review of WARMACHINE.

browncoat2814 — 2008-09-02T16:46:53+00:00

About a couple of months ago, I found myself in need of a new miniatures game. Tired of every aspect of Warhammer (FB and 40k),the way that Games Workshop likes to do business, and spending too much on miniatures, I heavily researched many of the options out there. Given the almost unanimously positive reviews and the great looking minis, WARMACHINE seemed like the obvious choice.

One of the most instantly attractive things about WARMACHINE is that you don't need many models to play. The cost-per-model is about the same as Warhammer, but you only need 3-5 miniatures to start playing. Plus, all models are metal...beautifully sculpted metal at that.

So how easy is it to actually get into WARMACHINE? The best way would to buy one of the battlegroup boxsets. Each battlegroup box contains enough miniatures to start playing with one of the five factions, as well as a set of quick start rules to start playing. Each battlebox is balanced ("balanced" is a word GW could afford to learn) to play well against the others. The battlegroup boxes and how they play is essentially what this review is going to cover.

THE MODELS
WARMACHINE uses 30mm metal miniatures. The detail of these miniatures is really outstanding. Each battlegroup includes 1 warcaster (the most important model in your force) as well as several warjacks (the huge steam powered robots that will do the majority of the crushing of your oppenents...or so you hope). I decided to go with the Protectorate of Menoth, my brother went with the Cryx, and my friend Ted went with Khador. I was a little worried about putting the models together, since my experiences with metal durring my Warhammer days wasn't all that pleasant. However, these went together very easily, and for the most part, have stayed together. None of us needed a pin vice. Another thing I'd like to mention was that the models were very clean...meaning there was very little excess material on them. After we had glued our WARMACHINE pieces, we put together some 40k pieces Ted had bought (also metal), and we really got to compare just how much better all around Privateer's minis were over Games Workshop's.

THE RULES
As mentioned before, the battlegroup boxes come with a set of quick start rules. I think this should be noted as another attractive feature when starting WARMACHINE, given the fact that most miniature games (aside from most pre-painted games) require you to buy a rulebook, or at least read one before playing. Sure, one could argue that Games Workshop includes a rulebook in their starter boxes, but you don't have the freedom of choosing which army you want (unless, of course, you want one of the two armies included).

The quick start rules are fairly easy to understand. Memorizing things like modifiers is a breeze, since they're all based around two numbers, 2 and 4. My only problems with the quick start rules are two things:

1) They will make mention of a game term and not define it until much later on. This happens several times, and while the rules are fairly simple, there's still quite a bit to take in (more on that later). This makes them feel a bit unorganized. Speaking of being organized, a list of what kind of die rolls can and can't be boosted would have saved us many trips back to the rules.

2) They get the job done, but that doesn't mean they aren't vague in some areas. There were several times while playing that we found that our situation just wasn't covered in the quick start rules.

These things aside, the quick start rules are still quite good. I've since read the full rulebook, and I've really come to appreciate just how much the quick start rules included. So a new player shouldn't see the words "Quick Start Rules" and think, "Great, I'll be playing a watered-down version of the real game." This isn't at all true. I'd have to estimate that 75% of the full rules are in the quick start rules, and most of what's missing isn't used with the models in the battlegroup boxes.

THE GAME
While I've already called WARMACHINE'S rules simple, this is still a complex game. The number of options available at all times can be staggering, yet the rules make them simple in execution. Reading the rules and seeing all the options your warjacks have for Power Attacks (headbutts, slams, armlocks, headlocks, etc.) is one thing, but to sit at the table with those options, along with the unique abilities of your warjacks and the spells of your warcaster, is another thing all together. Managing those options on a turn-by-turn basis is what makes the very core of the WARMACHINE game.

Winning basically is going to come down to taking out your opponent's warcaster; when the warcaster falls, all his warjacks shutdown and cease to function. It isn't as easy as it sounds, since your opponent will be using his warjacks to protect the warcaster, all the while trying to destroy yours. Warcasters are also armed with powerful spells, weapons, and a feat that can be used once per game. When used at the right time, it can change the direction of the battle entirely.

Back to the subject of management...Every turn, your warcaster generates a set amount of "focus," which is divided amongst your warjacks to allow them to perform special attacks, add extra attacks, and make their attacks more successful and more powerful. But your warcaster also needs focus to cast spells. Focus doesn't carry over from previous turns. You'll often find yourself torn between casting a spell and doing something like adding an extra die to your warjack's attack roll, with not enough to do both. This sort of management, along with sheer amount to options to each model gives WARMACHINE an incredible amount of depth.

Due to the amount of options, you won't be able to rely on the same tactics every game, nor will the same tactic work against the other factions the same way. Each faction truly plays entirely differently. Finding the balance between how your group best functions as well as what options work best against which opponents is an incredibly rewarding experience. You're probably going to lose. But losing is a huge learning experience, since you'll spend alot of time thinking to yourself about all the things you could have done differently.

WARMACHINE is loaded with cool mechanics that set it apart from other miniatures games, but the two mechanics I find most interesting are the damage system and Arc Nodes.

When your Warjacks take damage, the damage goes into one of six columns. At the bottom of these columns are letters that correspond with one of your warjack's systems, the right arm, left arm, movement, Cortex (the ability to receive focus from your warcaster), as well as a few others. Taking out one of your opponent's systems when things aren't going well can be a real game changer, while having it happen to you usually means you need a quick change of tactics.

Some warjacks are equipped with Arc Nodes, which allow them to be a point for warcasters to channel their spells through. This means you can hide your warcaster yet still be able to cast spells and get a different line of sight through the warjack. This feature opens up a whole lot of strategy.

OVERALL
WARMACHINE is just what I needed. It's an affordable game to get into, easy to understand, and incredibly deep. The miniatures are really fantastic and are a joy to paint. And while I enjoyed my entry into the game, the farther I get into it, the more I love it.

For those who have never played a miniatures game before, this would be a pretty good place to start, since it's unarguably more casual than Warhammer is. You're going to need a few more materials than those who already do play them, but these are basic things like dice and a tape measure.

Those who do play miniature games, WARMACHINE is really worth your time and money. In addition to having so much to offer as a game, Privateer Press has been very adamant about not doing things like releasing new versions of the rules that don't allow you to use some of your older models. The benefits go on and on, with very little working against it.

I give WARMACHINE my highest possible recommendation.

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Ghool — 2008-09-02T16:07:45+00:00

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Ghool — 2008-09-02T16:07:17+00:00

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Ghool — 2008-08-25T18:28:08+00:00

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Ghool — 2008-08-25T18:27:36+00:00

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Ghool — 2008-08-25T18:27:03+00:00

Thread: Re: An Introduction to Warmachine for Warhammer Players

browncoat2814 — 2008-08-24T17:01:47+00:00

Excellent writeup. I recently made the jump from GW to PP myself, and I am having a blast. For me, the cons outweighed the pros with Warhammer. That's not to say that Warhammer doesn't hold any appeal to me anymore (I still plan on picking up a Black Reach box once it's out), but I've already gotten more enjoyment out of Warmachine than I ever did with WHFB or 40k in my 7 years of playing it. There aren't many games this simple yet so deep. Not to mention just how beautiful the models are (cleaner too). Warhammer players...just buy a starter. You won't regret it.

Thread: An Introduction to Warmachine for Warhammer Players

stampdog316 — 2008-08-24T15:43:03+00:00

I am new to Warmachine, but have played both Warhammer Fantasy and 40K for many years. This summary of the differences between the two games serves as a starting point for any Warhammer players interested in Warmachine. This is not intended to trash either game; people can form their own opinions and I enjoy both games.
One of the reasons I became interested in Warmachine was my belief that this could be a lower-cost alternative to Warhammer since you need fewer models for a Warmachine game. Each Warmachine faction has a starter box containing a Warcaster and two to three warjacks, the steam-powered machines that are central to Warmachine. The starter boxes retail for $50 and include a set of rules designed to get you playing. Like Warhammer Warmachine uses a points system to value units and leaders. The contents of the starter box contain about 300 points depending on which faction you buy. This is enough to get started, but you will want to expand your force up to 500 points and you will want to eventually get the rulebook as well. So yes you can get started with Warmachine with a smaller investment, but like all miniatures games there is no way getting around spending more money. Unlike Warhammer there are no plastic figures in Warmachine, but there are no codexes or army books to buy either and you need less figures so cost will depend on what each individual wants to purchase.
Because Warmachine doesn’t use separate army books, you don’t have to wait a year or more while Games Workshop gets around to re-writing your army book when the newest edition is released or have to use a temporary list from White Dwarf. Privateer Press, the publishers of Warmachine, has been very adamant about keeping all released models relevant and “in play.” Do you want to use every model in your army? No, a big part of the fun of Warmachine is finding different combinations of figures and how they work in conjunction with each other. But you don’t have to worry that your Army will not be supported or one of your units will not be included in the next set of rules.
The biggest difference between the two systems is clearly game play. Since battles in Warmachine are smaller, every model is more important. You are not playing with blocks of 30 goblins or skaven, infantry units in Warmachine seldom exceed 5 models, so a loss of 2 or 3 figures really cripples such a small unit. The central mechanic of Warmachine is the use of “focus points.” Each turn your war caster receives a designated amount of focus, usually tracked by the ubiquitous glass beads that anyone who has played a RPG or Magic: The Gathering is familiar. Your Warcaster then allocates his focus points to cast spells, boost his defense, or add dice to attacks. The critical factor in most games is a player’s decision on how to use this focus--this puts more decisions in the hands of the player and reduces the impact of luck that any dice-based combat system contains. Like Warhammer, the Warmachine combat system is d6 based; players usually roll 2d6 to both hit and then to damage. Focus points can be used to add dice to these rolls. Spells cast in Warmachine cannot be dispelled and are usually automatically successful once the player decides to invest his focus points in the spell. There are special rules for some figures to cancel magic or reduce its effectiveness. Ranged weapons have shorter ranges than in Warhammer. The Khador Winter guard mortar crew’s range is 20” which is the longest or one of the longest reach weapons in the game. This causes Warmachine games to be shorter but more action-oriented as both forces get into melee rather quickly. No more trying to march across a table with your Warhammer army while a wood elf player shoots you with bows from 36” away.
One concern I had going into Warmachine was the power of warjacks. Privateer Press has put an emphasis on play balance and is careful not to let one faction or unit become all-powerful. You see this in league play where all of the factions are pretty much evenly represented, so no more tournaments where everyone is playing the same two or three armies. Actually it looks at this point in time Warmachine players are putting less warjacks and more infantry in their armies.
The Privateer Press figures to me are simply beautiful, with less flash and more detail than their Games Workshop counterparts. This is all a matter of personal preference, but Games Workshop does have more plastic figures which make conversions easier. If you enjoy just painting metal minis then Warmachine/Hordes is for you.
Another interesting aspect of Warmachine is that it is compatible to its sister game, Hordes. Hordes armies can compete in the same tournaments and play against Warmachine players. This brings another four factions into the mix. Mercenaries can be played in both Warmachine and Hordes armies or you can play an all-mercenary force. Unlike Warhammer dogs of war, mercenaries are versatile enough to be a common sight in Warmachine battles.
This is not related to the game play of either system, but I like the fact that Privateer Press is very active raising money for charity and assists with organizing charity tournaments. They have even released warcasters with alternate poses to be sold with the proceeds going to the Red Cross and they published the results of last year’s food thrall food drive tournaments in their magazine No Quarter. I am not saying that Games Workshop is involved in charities or not, but I can say that after reading White Dwarf the better part of ten years, I have never noticed an article about a charity event. It may have been there and I could have missed it.
Hopefully this guide will help those interested in Warmachine. It is an outstanding game that deserves more publicity and has a growing following. Again I like Warhammer and will continue to play both systems, but anyone not checking into Warmachine and Hordes is really missing out.

Thread: Re: Does this work for casual play?

Doppelbock — 2008-08-18T05:33:42+00:00

I tried the "photocopy pages out of the book to proxy" thing this weekend and it was unwieldy, I'm buying a faction deck this week.

Normally you wouldn't buy multiple box sets, I think most people stick with one faction for at least a while; it takes some time to get a 750 or 1000 point army of one faction.

Thread: Re: using proxies to get a feel for the game?

skrebs — 2008-08-13T23:28:25+00:00

Thanks for the responses. The cards sound great if I can get some friends interested.

Thread: Re: using proxies to get a feel for the game?

goldenboat — 2008-08-13T22:23:59+00:00

I don't think the Warmachine Secret Police will kick in your door if you play with proxies. But I could be wrong. Wait, what's that I hear? Jackboots on the doorstep ... ahh!

(typing quickly now ... the suggestion upthread about buying some cards is a great one)

They're here for me! They're he --
!

Thread: Re: using proxies to get a feel for the game?

Greywing — 2008-08-13T21:36:07+00:00

Yes, you can.

Prime Remix has game stats for some, but by no means all, of the units as well. So really, with just Remix, some scratch paper for record keeping, and something to proxy the actual minis, you can play the game.

The faction decks mentioned above have (pretty much) all the units of a given faction, plus they add a lot of convenience. They are not absolutely necessary in order to play some intro games, however.

Thread: Re: using proxies to get a feel for the game?

mwdalrymple — 2008-08-13T17:49:25+00:00

spend 15$ and pick up a set of faction cards. having the cards, and the rule books, you can then proxy anything. what makes the game so brillant is having the rules on the cards.. and putting them into hardcases so that you can use dry erasers on top of them to track damage.

Thread: using proxies to get a feel for the game?

skrebs — 2008-08-13T17:22:15+00:00

If I buy Prime: Remix, can I use Heroscape figures (not the terrain of course) to get a feel for the game? I don't think I can get any of my friends to buy and paint Warmachine figures, and I've never painted before, so I'm sure it would be a long process.

Thanks D6 Generation. Now I have another potential money pit!

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Azzarc — 2008-08-06T04:56:55+00:00

The Warmachine tournament at Recruits Spring '07

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

DaviddesJ — 2008-07-17T13:26:11+00:00

Nazhuret wrote:
If this is something in the book that makes these people act like this I'm really doubting I would want to get into this game. Which is a shame because the figures look really cool and from what I've read the rules seem like a nice change from 40k.

There are lots of games in the world that don't feel the need to offend and insult people in their rules. I'm sure you can find something you like better.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

browncoat2814 — 2008-07-17T13:14:12+00:00

It really isn't all that much different than the blurbs at the bottom of the WH40k rulebook...taken literally, what they say are asinine and absurd, but literal meaning isn't what they're there for. It's an outline of the game, how it plays and as a hobby, peppered with flavor (something I thought us gamers usually held in somewhat high regard!). It's a wargame, and from what I understand, a much more fast paced and in-your-face one than Snorehammer. My hats off to Privateer Press for writing easily the most interesting introduction to a game I've ever read.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

galonso — 2008-07-17T12:45:55+00:00

browncoat2814 wrote:
I just despise the fact that political correctness has put such a damper on things that are meant to be in fun.

Agreed.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

browncoat2814 — 2008-07-17T12:30:10+00:00

I'm about ready to jump into Warmachine as soon as I'm purged from the last remnants of the Warhammer taint (selling the last of my stuff on eBay ). I didn't know about Page 5, but just read it.

All in all, I found it to be pretty funny, and not to be taken literally. At least for humor's sake, I'd rather hear this sort of thing than what you'd hear at Games Workshop (some guy explaining how he beat/will beat someone, complete with sound effects, mathematical babble, the word "Hello" used right before he does something he finds cool, etc).

And for the record, I'm not a teenager, I'm 24, a pacifist, and closely associate the words "women" with "respect." I just despise the fact that political correctness has put such a damper on things that are meant to be in fun.

Thread: Re: Does this work for casual play?

ironcates — 2008-07-13T14:26:05+00:00

Dorque wrote:
If you aren't in to the minis, then you may have more fun just playing with proxies. Buy the rulebook and sticker-label some washers of the right diameters and have at it.

I decided to do this, but you have to also buy the faction decks to make it playable. I suppose you could photocopy each character sheet but that would get a little silly.

I bought a menoth battle box and I'm assembling the models. I'll probably buy another one and just play around with those two sets.

Luckily my local store has these on sale. I just couldn't see paying retail to play this casually.

25.99 for Prime Remix
16.99 per faction deck x 5 = 84.95
or 49.99 per battle box x 4 = 199.96
And that's not counting paints, glue and terrain. I have a bunch of wooden blocks I could use for terrain, thankfully.

Thread: Re: Does this work for casual play?

matthewjhoskins — 2008-07-03T03:16:00+00:00

ironcates wrote:
I was thinking of getting a couple Battle boxes and just doing some battles. My gaming group and I aren't into the full on painting miniatures and fluff side of the hobby but are more boardgamers at heart. (Although I could throw a primer of different colors on there to keep them straight). From what I've been hearing the rule set is really tight and interesting.

Would this work for casual play?

The game is excellent, highly addicting and has ton of strategic depth.
Warmachine isn't really geared toward casual play. Battle box v. battle box doesn't have a lot of replay value. There are severe balance issues playing battle box v. battle box. You can get a lot of mileage from battle boxes plus alternate casters. This is a fun way to explore the game.

The trepidation lies in the exploration aspect. I think you'll be bored very quickly if you restrict yourself strictly to out-of-the-box battle box games. The game lends itself to creative thinking and warband building is one of the very interesting parts of the hobby.

Keyword: hobby. Warmachine really is about painting, modelling, terrain building and exploring the rich fabric of the game setting.

If you want a miniature game with strong appeal to boardgamers, but without the painting and modelling aspects try Dreamblade . For the price of two Battleboxes you can kit out a 3-4 player game group.

Thread: Re: Does this work for casual play?

Dorque — 2008-07-03T01:23:17+00:00

If you aren't in to the minis, then you may have more fun just playing with proxies. Buy the rulebook and sticker-label some washers of the right diameters and have at it. If you think of it as a boardgame you'll see it is silly to imagine you have to buy the pieces separate from the game.

Oh, and to play casually, make sure nobody reads any online strategy guides. The game is balanced hella high, and finding the ultra combos is the fun of the journey. If somebody starts at the end of the road with a tourney-winner list, the game will die quick.

Thread: Re: Does this work for casual play?

Greywing — 2008-07-03T01:05:34+00:00

I say go for it. Battle box v. battle box can be very rewarding and entertaining.

Thread: Re: Does this work for casual play?

goldenboat — 2008-07-02T22:19:59+00:00

I think a couple battleboxes would make for a fun, fast, boardgame-like experience ... but if you aren't careful, you may find yourself wanting just a few more units, or even *gasp* wanting to paint them ...

Give it a go. Or drop by the hobby shop and see if they have someone who can demo the game for you. That way you get to play with painted toys at no personal expense.

Thread: Re: Does this work for casual play?

KnobDoctor — 2008-07-02T21:41:31+00:00

It's a great game and would work for casual play...but if you don't want to paint minis, you need to move along.

If you want to try minis games, I would suggest you look for one with prepainted figures. Otherwise, you're going to have a box of unpainted lead in the house. =(

You might try out Mage Knight, which is out of print but old figures can be had cheaply, and the game is a lot of fun. See if you like this before you jump full into miniatures gaming!

Thread: Does this work for casual play?

ironcates — 2008-07-02T21:01:41+00:00

I was thinking of getting a couple Battle boxes and just doing some battles. My gaming group and I aren't into the full on painting miniatures and fluff side of the hobby but are more boardgamers at heart. (Although I could throw a primer of different colors on there to keep them straight). From what I've been hearing the rule set is really tight and interesting.

Would this work for casual play?

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

mattprice — 2008-07-02T20:48:26+00:00

Hmmm. Page five *is* a pretty off-putting. Talking smack is one thing, but if you've actually read the fifth page of their rulebook, it's hard to look at your minis the same again. I'm not an over-the-top competative player, will never play in tournaments, and only play for fun. This whole ridiculous teenager-fueled machismo of page 5 is really embarrassing: it's a fantasy game with toy soldiers fercryinoutloud!

Having said that, I just played my first game a week or two ago, and this is one of the best minis games I've ever played. Good enough to allow me to look beyond page 5, especially since I only play with likeminded friends who just look embarrassed when you bring up page 5 nonsense.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

galonso — 2008-07-02T19:49:29+00:00

All you people complaining about page 5, get over it. Its a great game. You either try it or you don't. If you don't the only person missing out is you. Try not to be so sensitive and get off your high horses. Its just fun smack talk. If you arent into that sort of thing ignore it and move on.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

IronSausage — 2008-07-02T19:12:17+00:00

This sheds some light on the company's direction and commitment. http://privateerpress.com/letter.html

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

RKFade — 2008-07-01T19:55:31+00:00

Nautilus wrote:
RKFade wrote:
And I actually like the "take your plastic and go home" stuff. I'm a big fan of metal and I love their all-metal approach. That used to be some of our biggest complaints about other games years ago . . . "Man . . . so much plastic. Plastic is boring to paint." Why? I dunno. Metal is "cooler". Heavier. Has a teensy-bit of intrinsic value. And man, some of those mechs or steambots whatever the heck they're called in this game are HEAVY. Too much fun to think of using them as a bludgeon if the game goes badly enough. Kidding, of course.
Agreed, so too bad that PP are ditching their "metal only" approach. Expect to see plastic in the not too distant future....

I'm disappointed, but not at all surprised to hear that. When we first saw the "All metal" hype, My friend and I said "Hmm, for how long?"

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

KillMeForPrizes — 2008-07-01T15:14:04+00:00

Basically all page 5 really means is that players should not be afraid of using any kind of army any way they want. The game is all about over the top troops and crazy power combos - the kind of stuff that is considered "cheese: or "beardy" in other miniature games is common place in Warmachine and every army has access to a half-dozen different ways to rock your opponent. Of course your opponent has access to a half-dozen ways to rock you. Thus the game breaks down into 3 areas which you have to use your brain - army composition, army use and dealing with the enemy once the game is on.

Any attitude gleaned from the page 5 manifesto is complete bollocks.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

Nautilus — 2008-07-01T14:36:44+00:00

RKFade wrote:
And I actually like the "take your plastic and go home" stuff. I'm a big fan of metal and I love their all-metal approach. That used to be some of our biggest complaints about other games years ago . . . "Man . . . so much plastic. Plastic is boring to paint." Why? I dunno. Metal is "cooler". Heavier. Has a teensy-bit of intrinsic value. And man, some of those mechs or steambots whatever the heck they're called in this game are HEAVY. Too much fun to think of using them as a bludgeon if the game goes badly enough. Kidding, of course.
Agreed, so too bad that PP are ditching their "metal only" approach. Expect to see plastic in the not too distant future....

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

RKFade — 2008-07-01T11:49:28+00:00

And I actually like the "take your plastic and go home" stuff. I'm a big fan of metal and I love their all-metal approach. That used to be some of our biggest complaints about other games years ago . . . "Man . . . so much plastic. Plastic is boring to paint." Why? I dunno. Metal is "cooler". Heavier. Has a teensy-bit of intrinsic value. And man, some of those mechs or steambots whatever the heck they're called in this game are HEAVY. Too much fun to think of using them as a bludgeon if the game goes badly enough. Kidding, of course.

Thread: Re: What's all this "page five" nonsense?

RKFade — 2008-07-01T11:45:50+00:00

Well, I've never had a chance to field my Cygnar amy against anyone besides one short skirmist, so the rulebook has me threatening to blow my own balls off if I whine about it.

Game seems REALLY cool, though, the minis are FANTASTIC, and the rules are easy to comprehend without tomes and tomes. Rules allow for some really "OH SWEET" moments, what with mechs picking each other up, tossing each other into troops, etc etc. I regret I don't have more time for this stuff.

"Page 5" is not enough reason to avoid this game.