Game: Old Town

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vegaz — 2008-05-07T20:19:37+00:00

Playing Old Town solo

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cuazzel — 2008-04-23T22:36:26+00:00

Some of the 'category C' cards

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cuazzel — 2008-04-23T22:32:25+00:00

Some of the 'category B' cards

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cuazzel — 2008-04-23T22:29:06+00:00

Some of the 'category A' cards

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cuazzel — 2008-04-23T22:20:22+00:00

Back of the cards

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cuazzel — 2008-04-23T22:12:09+00:00

Building markers

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cuazzel — 2008-04-23T22:07:14+00:00

The buildings

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cuazzel — 2008-04-23T17:43:15+00:00

The game board

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cuazzel — 2008-04-23T17:39:35+00:00

Box back (better quality)

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cuazzel — 2008-04-23T17:37:29+00:00

Box front (better quality)

Thread: Re: Does Old Town Solo = Old Town minus the bits?

Tycho — 2008-03-07T20:56:31+00:00

fnord23 wrote:
should Old Town Solo have its own entry?
I'd say no, since the Game Submission Guidelines say to not submit "Solitary/ logic puzzles". At least, that's what stopped me from submitting Solo last year, and instead I edited the Old Town description.

But if you think otherwise, go ahead

Thread: Re: Does Old Town Solo = Old Town minus the bits?

GeoMan — 2008-03-07T01:16:29+00:00

I think that you can. Get the rules here: Old Town Solo English rules

Thread: Does Old Town Solo = Old Town minus the bits?

fnord23 — 2008-03-07T00:25:56+00:00

Assuming I have a map, the rules, and appropriate bits, can I play Old Town using the deck from Old Town Solo? Is the deck in Old Town Solo the same as the deck in Old Town?

In either case, should Old Town Solo have its own entry?

Thread: Short & Snappy: Old Town

Gargoyle — 2006-11-14T19:08:55+00:00

Old Town is in many ways something refreshingly different. It takes players to the ruins of an old wild west frontier town and gives them the task of figuring out what the place used to look like.

Essentially, Old Town is a puzzle game. Each player has a set of clue cards that tell something about the original layout of the town. These are played, one per turn, to discover new things about the location of various buildings. After few rounds, the first buildings find their place and soon the whole town is mapped out.

The basic idea of the mechanics is very clever. The town ends up different in each game, depending on the order the cards are played. The players are given some freedom in choosing how to utilise their cards and even the otherwise redundant cards have their uses. The result is a quick 20-30 game that is rewarding to play thanks to the pleasantly developing board and the occasional opportunities to be smart.

Unfortunately, Old Town also has it’s problems that cut down the time it manages to stay interesting. First, getting to know the game can be somewhat challenging, because the rules do not do very good job in explaining the unusual game mechanics. Once you figure them out, playing is very intuitive, but it can take few tries to get there.

Second, the game has a bad habit of supporting super moves that suddenly solve one third of the board and thus effectively decide the game. This can be annoying from time to time, but thanks to the short playing time and the fact that it still takes some figuring out to make these moves, it’s not serious enough to kill the game.

Third, the game becomes too chaotic with 4 players, so I’ll only recommend it for 2 or 3. Or soloplay, if that’s your cup of tea, as Old Town comes with few solo-puzzles, some of which are very challenging.

Old Town is blessed with both unique theme and unique game mechanics. Together they create so unusual and enjoyable gaming experience that it manages to carry the game through it’s shortcomings.

Pros:
*Unique idea
*Nicely developing board
*Rewarding moments of being smart
*Solo puzzles

Cons:
*Supermoves often solve the game
*Unclear rules
*Very basic appearance
*Grows old

Score: 7

Thread: Re: Where can I get a copy?

jostrand — 2006-09-05T14:29:56+00:00

The 1 player version of the game is all deduction and logic. It is really like playing a themed Soduku! I think that more single player scenarious would be great (it comes with about 12 of varying difficulty). I still have yet to play with more than 1, but it seems like there would be a lot of strategy depending on which "My Building" you choose.

Thread: Re: Where can I get a copy?

DaviddesJ — 2006-08-30T17:54:09+00:00

DaviddesJ wrote:
gamegrl2 wrote:
I disagree that this is merely a game of consequences. On one's turn, you choose which card to play. The order that you play your cards can greatly impact your score. Still you must maintain flexibility as other players are strategizing as well.

Sorry, perhaps I misspoke. I definitely agree the game has some strategy. My point is that it's not really a deduction game, the consequences are not complicated and hard to figure out (unlike Sleuth, for example, which isn't super-intricate but does require some careful reasoning). So if you're really interested in logic, you might be disappointed. Also, while there is some strategy, the luck of the draw is often hard to overcome.

Thread: Re: Where can I get a copy?

DaviddesJ — 2006-08-30T17:53:23+00:00

gamegrl2 wrote:
I disagree that this is merely a game of consequences. On one's turn, you choose which card to play. The order that you play your cards can greatly impact your score. Still you must maintain flexibility as other players are strategizing as well.

Sorry, perhaps I misspoke. I definitely agree the game has some strategy. My point is that it's not really a deduction game, the consequences are not complicated and hard to figure out (unlike Sleuth, for example). So if you're really interested in logic, you might be disappointed. Also, while there is some strategy, the luck of the draw is often hard to overcome.

Thread: Re: Where can I get a copy?

Big D — 2006-08-30T17:50:54+00:00

daw65 wrote:
Well, seven folks here on the 'geek are trading it, so you could contact them. But then, I found this:
https://www.gamesurplus.com/site/product.cfm?id=A0FD0C9C-BEA...

Great, thanks!

Thread: Re: Where can I get a copy?

cbrua — 2006-08-30T17:49:34+00:00

I agree with David, there is no deduction in this game. Some minimal logic on placement that is very easy to handle.

If you want logic & deduction, try Sleuth.

--Chris

Thread: Re: Where can I get a copy?

gamegrl2 — 2006-08-30T17:49:17+00:00

I got my copy direct from the designer. The price wasn't bad at all. He has his own website.

I disagree that this is merely a game of consequences. On one's turn, you choose which card to play. The order that you play your cards can greatly impact your score. Still you must maintain flexibility as other players are strategizing as well.

Thread: Re: Where can I get a copy?

DaviddesJ — 2006-08-30T17:33:12+00:00

Big D wrote:
As a math professor and a lover of logic, this seems like a great little game.

It's a neat concept but I don't think it really works that well as a game. There's not really a "deduction" or "logic" element, just a chain of placements and consequences.

Thread: Re: Where can I get a copy?

jostrand — 2006-08-30T17:27:19+00:00

I love gamesurplus.com and have ordered quite a few hard to find games there and for a good deal too! I just put in an order on Monday and it looks like I will have Old Town tomorrow.

I love logic games and I would suggest Zendo if you have never tried that before. The game is not avalible, but the rules are free online and all you need are 4 Icehouse pyramid sets and some commonly avalible glass/stone markers. You can even play Zendo with other types of pieces (or numbers).

Thread: Re: Where can I get a copy?

daw65 — 2006-08-30T17:19:25+00:00

Well, seven folks here on the 'geek are trading it, so you could contact them. But then, I found this:
https://www.gamesurplus.com/site/product.cfm?id=A0FD0C9C-BEA...

Thread: Where can I get a copy?

Big D — 2006-08-30T15:54:02+00:00

As a math professor and a lover of logic, this seems like a great little game. It doesn't seem to be available anymore though (I live in the U.S.). Does anyone know where I might be able to pick up a copy?

Thread: Re: Baffled by new 2006 rules

clicker — 2006-05-29T20:28:27+00:00

Hello Jonathan,
sorry for this rule mistake. I think I have lost this important sentence on page 6:
"2 The player discards two cards that are no longer playable. The player is allowed to take any one marker from the board"

You will find the reworked rules at http://www.clicker-spiele.de/download/oldtown-en.zip.

Best regards,
Stephan Riedel
www.clicker-spiele.de
P.S. Steve, thank you very much for your help.

Thread: Re: Baffled by new 2006 rules

Fledermaushaus — 2006-05-27T18:17:27+00:00

Yep, found it now.
Stephan has left out a sentence from the translataion. The green box referred to should start with the sentence:

The player discards two cards that are no longer playable.

From what I recall there were no actual changes in the rules but were rewritten to make them clearer.
Hope that helps.
Steve

Thread: Re: Baffled by new 2006 rules

RPardoe — 2006-05-27T18:06:51+00:00

I see the action summary on page 6 as a summary of possible actions. The details for all the actions are on pages 7-10 (colour coded to the summary). The details for Action 2 (page 9) still have the discard 2 card requirement. So I don't think that was changed for this version.

Having just scanned the rules - I think these are "new" rules in that they are additional rules added to the game. I think these are re-written and clarified rules to based on the FAQs and other clarifications that were published after the original 2005 draft.

Thread: Re: Baffled by new 2006 rules

grandslam — 2006-05-27T17:37:31+00:00

http://www.clicker-spiele.de/oldtown-update.htm

Click on the Union Jack.

Thread: Re: Baffled by new 2006 rules

Fledermaushaus — 2006-05-27T17:12:10+00:00

Hi. Can you give the web address of these new rules as I can only find the Jan. 2005 version on the Clicker site. I did a translation of the newer German rules for Stephan at the end of 2005 but I did not think he'd up loaded them.

Thread: Baffled by new 2006 rules

grandslam — 2006-05-27T16:37:57+00:00

We tried to play Old Town using the 2006 English rules on Stefan's site.

We could not figure out what has changed since the 2005 rules.

In particular, in the green square, it says nothing about conflicting cards, it just says take a marker. Does that mean you don't have to discard two cards before taking the marker? Or is it:

1. Play a card unless it would put four markers on any one of the still possible spaces or you need more than five markers to cover all the remaining possibilities.

or

2. Discard two conflicting cards to draw one marker and two new cards.

3. If you cannot do 1 or 2, draw one card (can you choose this option even if you could do 1 or 2?)

Thanks for any help.

- Jonathan

Thread: Re: Single Player Game Question

SteveB — 2005-11-28T02:31:44+00:00

I guess if you play with all 17! cards in the first scenario, it works better.

Thanks for the info. I'm really looking forward to your translation.

Steve

Thread: Re: Single Player Game Question

Fledermaushaus — 2005-11-27T22:49:58+00:00

Whilst I've not played the game solitaire, I know the rules very well, so should be able to help. You don't draw cards during the 'game' but sort out the cards needed according to the scenario. You then use all of these cards together to solve the puzzle. So in the first scenario you have a total of 17 cards. The 3rd column defines how certain cards must be read e.g. card 45 must refer to the bank in scenario 1. The right hand column gives the possible buildings you can use for the 'Type C' ('8+8') cards. This is better explained in the updated rules which I hope to translate soon. Quoting from them in reference to scenario 3 (or 4 in the new rules): 'in the fifth column are the numbers '19, 26, 30, 32 to 34' and in the right-hand column the buildings 'Bank' and 'saloon'.
Card 19 can thus be either 'The Stage Coach Office was on the railway line opposite the bank' or 'The Stage Coach Office was on the railway line opposite the saloon'. The player must decide which one applies.' The same will apply to the other Type C cards being used e.g. card 26 will use either the bank or the saloon, etc. Of course some may refer to the bank and others to the saloon. In the 'severe' scenarios you have to work out for yourself which buildings the type C cards refer to. There is only one possible solution for each scenario.
I hope this helps - if you need any further help, I will do what I can.

Thread: Single Player Game Question

SteveB — 2005-11-26T18:38:29+00:00

This may seem simplistic, but I'm having a real hard time with the rules.

Exactly how do you play the single player game? I understand using the starting cards (I think), but then what? Do you just draw from the A stack to attempt a solution for the rest of the buildings? Or, do you draw from the B (common) deck?

I just don't get it?

Thanks,
Steve

Thread: Re: Some things I simply did not figure out yet

geboom — 2005-10-20T14:46:51+00:00

Thanks a lot for all your explenations.
Much, much apreciated.

Gerard

Thread: Re: Some things I simply did not figure out yet

fizzix — 2005-10-17T23:47:51+00:00

- My building is on the eastern or on the western side of town. Now this means that when I play this card on "my building" being the Saloon for example, and the tokens are placed in a row from east to west, I now can remove the two middle markers leaving the one most east and most west.
But what If I play this card and I have the saloon with 5 markers on it still lying in front of me? Or can I not play this card then?
Or only when 5 or less spaces are available according to this "My building card"?

You can't play a card if it would place more than five markers on the board.

I also can not fugure out a moment when I actually can place 5 tokens.

This usually doesn't happen. Typical play of an A card will put 4 of the 5 markers out and you will get a point.

-This brings up the next question as it comes to the maximum of 5 markers that can be placed. Does this mean that at least three of the 8 locations have to have houses on them? Or is there more like at least one marker on them? (if so then I might have more then 5 options to place markers so I guess that is not an option)

The situation you described is one possibility I suppose a logical deduction with fewer buildings could be possible.

The 8+8 are often cards referring to houses that are not on the board yet and mostly not even in play as a "my building" so can these be played? can tokens be used of buildings not being a "my building"? and if so can these tokens also be used from oponents having them as a "my building" in front of them

Yes. In fact clever card plays can cause "chain reactions" that put out one building and then cause other locations to be established through elimination.

Thread: Some things I simply did not figure out yet

geboom — 2005-10-17T17:12:39+00:00

Hello "Old Town" Players:
I hope you can help me here.
When starting on a 4 player game we all get 2 so called "4" cards so in total a number of 8 buildings can be placed to start with.
Thing is, I do not see how other buildings come in to play (or markers of those buildings) apart from the moment when a building is located and placed (as a building being "my building"). I have the feeling (playtesting it with only myself)that the lot is not comming in to play. I must overlook something.
Can the markers be used of buildings being not "my building"?
I also can not fugure out a moment when I actually can place 5 tokens.
the 4-location card is clear, the 8 is clear as far as it rules outa number of locations as where I see yhis as follows;

- My building is on the eastern or on the western side of town. Now this means that when I play this card on "my building" being the Saloon for example, and the tokens are placed in a row from east to west, I now can remove the two middle markers leaving the one most east and most west.
But what If I play this card and I have the saloon with 5 markers on it still lying in front of me? Or can I not play this card then?
Or only when 5 or less spaces are available according to this "My building card"?

-This brings up the next question as it comes to the maximum of 5 markers that can be placed. Does this mean that at least three of the 8 locations have to have houses on them? Or is there more like at least one marker on them? (if so then I might have more then 5 options to place markers so I guess that is not an option)

- The 8+8 are often cards referring to houses that are not on the board yet and mostly not even in play as a "my building" so can these be played? can tokens be used of buildings not being a "my building"? and if so can these tokens also be used from oponents having them as a "my building" in front of them?

I know I have a lot of questions and I am afraid it is not all.
I am just a bit tired of gazing and testing the game/rules so much that I throw all my qustions right on the table.

Please help me out!
Thanks for reading
Gerard

Thread: Re: Rules questions for "my building" in old town

jadzia_dax — 2005-10-04T18:52:33+00:00

Thanks so much. That makes more sense.

Thread: Re: Rules questions for "my building" in old town

RPardoe — 2005-10-04T17:31:48+00:00

The term my building refers to either of the two buildings you have in front of you at that time in the game.

Initially, you will start with 2 buildings. After you have received your initial clue cards, each player will select 2 buildings and place them in front of themselves. (This is under Preparation in the rules)

Either one of these buildings will be the my building when you play a clue card. For example, I have the Hotel and the Judge as my initial selections. If I play a card that says My building is by the cemetary (made-up clue card as I don't have the cards with me) I can play this clue card as either

The Hotel is by the cemetary
(or)
The Judge is by the cemetary

You then place the markers on the board to indicate likely building locations. The next clue card you play which refers to my building can again be either the hotel or the judge. It need not be the same one as you used earlier.

However, once you have uniquely identifed either building, you place it on the board and choose a replacement building. From that point in time, the phrase my building will refer to either of the buildings in front of you (as before). It will not refer to the building on the map.

For example, I placed the Hotel on the map and then replaced it with the Newspaper. Now when I play a my building card, it will refer to either the judge (from before) or the newspaper (new selection). It will not refer to the hotel as that is now identified.

So in answering your second question, the phrase my building is valid for any of the two buildings in front of you when you play a clue card.

Thread: Rules questions for "my building" in old town

jadzia_dax — 2005-10-04T16:53:41+00:00

I tried to play Old Town and we found the rules for the building labeled "my building" unclear.

I gather you start with two buildings. How do you select them? When you play the buildings to the board, do you select new "my buildings". If so how?

Is the reference to "my building" only valid as you place the building on the board and play the card or is there some time the phase is valid?

Thanks. I'll like to play it again but it really didn't make sense as a game the way we understood the rules.

Thread: Re: User Review

kvn299 — 2005-06-09T16:31:26+00:00

Thanks for the well-written review of this game. It really gave a pretty good idea of what to expect from this game.

Thread: Session Report

daw65 — 2005-05-28T06:36:32+00:00

By this time it's kind of late. Seafarers with six players can last a little bit. Only four of us remain, and the preference is for a game we all know. So I brought out a game that Jim and I had played a couple sessions ago, and that I know the others have played as well, Old Town.

As per usual, the first cards played were all of the "4" variety, placing the initial buildings. On his second turn Dave was first to play one of his "8+8" cards, which ended up forcing a "2 in 2" situation -- each of two buildings can only be in one of the same two spots. In this situation, no other building could possibly be in either location. Additionally, he ended up with seven tokens, either by not playing the new ones to the board, or by removing ones that were there, and scored his seven points, jumping to an early lead. Still, it was Jim who first located a building, the smith.

Next up was Carrie, who placed two buildings, the Doc and the church, and scored 8 in the process. Rich identified the drugstore's location, and since it was part of a "2 in 2" with the stable, placed both buildings and scored 4 points. And then Jim had the mammoth play. One card forced three building placements, and created another "2 in 2" between the Judge and the stage coach office, and resulted in 16 points. That gave him a lead that would prove to be insurmountable. The others closed the gap some, but when Rich finally placed the last building, Jim's lead held, and he took the victory by a 10 point margin.

I'm still not sure how much meat there is, here. I can't shake the feeling that there are better decisions to be made, mostly defensively, by trying to place as few tokens to the board as possible if you aren't in a position to remove a lot that are already there. After all, the more you place, the more others have to remove. It could also be that with fewer players there'd be more room for clever play, rather than just being at the mercy of your cards. But I just don't know. Still, with all that being said, I'm still enjoying the game.

Thread: Re: Two quick questions - surprised?

RPardoe — 2005-05-25T03:48:04+00:00

kevwill wrote:
Walt Mulder (#481483),

Thanks Walt - your answer to Q1 may in fact solve Q2. With fewer opportunities to play two contra/confirm cards, the common pile won't disappear so fast.

Reading this - had a quick question - when playing the two contra/confirm cards, you are remembering to remove 1 chit from the board aren't you.

I am curious as your comment for the original Q2 indicates that half the buildings were left unplayed.

Another question that pops to mind, "My building" only refers to the buildings currently in front of you. Once one of your buildings is placed in town, it is no longer "your building". So cards played can't refer to "your buildings" already placed in town.

I am trying to understand the context of your questions as these have never come up in our playings of the game. Confirmation or clarification would be appreciated.

Thread: Re: Two quick questions - surprised?

Fledermaushaus — 2005-05-24T18:58:24+00:00

Nick, you're about right. There are a couple of situations that would mean the 8 plots don't have to have buildings but it would be only an occasional exception - firstly, when a situation like Example 7 in the rules occurs (2 markers for the same 2 buildings on 2 plots and no other markers for those buildings) and, secondly, when some markers for both of your buildings and all the unclaimed buildings are already on the board - then the card needs 'only' to contradict all the markers. Basically contradictory 'B' cards are a rarity, it is generally only the 'A' and 'C' cards that are likely to become contadictory if not played early on.
I really think this is a game that even if produced by a major company would still have rules problems. The concept is so different. Once you do get the idea it is actually quite straightforward but to try to convey that in words is another matter altogether!

Thread: Re: Two quick questions - surprised?

pusboyau — 2005-05-24T12:34:57+00:00

After getting my head around the logic to play the game, I now need to get my head around some of the rule issues. So let me get this right about valid discarding of "contradictory" card(s): when the type "B" card (single 8)refers to my building, not only do all the 8 spots have to be occupied, but "my building" not only means my building(s) in front of me, but also the pile of non player building yet to be taken?
Help!!!
Nick

Thread: Re:help...rules....unclear...must....try..to..understand.....

Fledermaushaus — 2005-04-29T17:29:44+00:00

fizzix (#481129), At the risk of confusing all of us even more..
mrosal is correct in saying the card cannot be played given the current arrangement. If you place markers so that there are more than 3 on a plot during the turn, you need to be able to make accurate deductions that will reduce the number to 3 or less before the end of the turn.
Imagine that the two sheriff markers at bison field were not there (don't worry how that situation arose!): you could then play the card and temporarily place a 4th marker on the 2 plots with 3 and another casino marker up on Cemetary. Since the sheriff has to be on one of the two plots on Main, the hotel and the casino cannot both be there. Therefore you could deduct accurately that the hotel and casino were up on Cemetary and place both buildings. The score would be 9; 5 for all the casino markers but only 4 for the hotel as one was presumably scored when the hotel markers were first placed. At the end of the turn there would then be only 2 markers left on each of the plots on Main - allowing further placement and confusion on subsequent turns!

Thread: Re:Two quick questions - surprised?

Fledermaushaus — 2005-04-29T16:38:17+00:00

kevwill (#481364), In your question, what you describe as 'contradictory' is actually playable at this time since it helps pin-point the position of the building. You would play the card and then remove the markers that are not on the outskirts, getting points for these markers.
'Contradictory' means that it could never be played during the remainder of the game - not only must it contradict every marker for both of your current 'my buildings' but it must also contradict any possible positions for all the buildings that are still laying unclaimed beside the board.
So given this I don't think it is possible for the draw-pile to run out.

Thread: Re:Two quick questions - surprised?

kevwill — 2005-04-27T11:11:19+00:00

Walt Mulder (#481483),

Thanks Walt - your answer to Q1 may in fact solve Q2. With fewer opportunities to play two contra/confirm cards, the common pile won't disappear so fast.

Thread: Re:help...rules....unclear...must....try..to..understand.....

mrosal — 2005-04-27T04:17:28+00:00

kevwill (#481360),

Even with the 4 markers on the 2 spaces in the middle of the turn, it doesn't create unique positions for the casino or the hotel. Therefore, there would be 4 markers on the 2 spaces at the end of the turn and the card is temporarily unplayable.

fizzix (#481129),
Yes, if a card requires you to place a 4th marker on a space and the number of markers cannot be removed from the space, the card cannot currently be played.

Thread: Re:help...rules....unclear...must....try..to..understand.....

fizzix — 2005-04-27T00:25:54+00:00

I appreciate the replies but these two conflicting but reasonable answers still leave me confused.

I was interpreting the three tile rule as meaning that the buildings on main street in my picture are "closed" because they already have three so that by playing the card, the result is that only reasonable placement is at the Cavendish/Cemetary intersection.

So if a card would place several tiles, with only one (some) of them being a fourth then the card can't be played at all?

Thread: Re:Two quick questions - surprised?

Walt Mulder — 2005-04-27T00:03:49+00:00

kevwill (#481364),
As far as the first answer, I used to play it that way but was corrected. To my current understanding, all contradictions on a card must be upheld before it can be played as a contradictory.

I haven't had the 2nd situation occur so I don't have an answer for that one.

Thread: Two quick questions - surprised?

kevwill — 2005-04-26T21:39:10+00:00

First - I assume a card is "contradictory" if it contradicts some, but not all of the markers for a building. Such as 'my building' is on the outskirts and some of the markers for it are on the outskirts, but some are not. Agree?

Second - what happens if I run out of clue cards from the piles? Rules say used clue cards are put back in the box, but in one game only half the buildings were placed when all clue cards from common pile had been used. Do I shuffle them and re-use (except the Type A)?

Thread: Re:help...rules....unclear...must....try..to..understand.....

kevwill — 2005-04-26T21:34:44+00:00

fizzix (#481129),

Alternatively, if you look at the post from Flederhausmouse (sp), then the 3 card rule may only apply at the end of the turn (according to German rules and designer). So you could do as you suggest and place the two buildings, thus removing surplus cards during the same turn. Oh the vagaries of mistranslation!

Thread: Re:help...rules....unclear...must....try..to..understand.....

mrosal — 2005-04-26T20:40:18+00:00

fizzix (#481129),

The card you are trying to play is temporarily unplayable.

The 2 buildings at the corner of Cavendish Street and Main Street that have entrances opposite each other, already have 3 markers on each of them. Playing the card would require you to place markers for the casio on each of these buildings as well as the building you mention on Cemetary Road.

Therefore the card is temporarily unplayable.

Relevant rule:
The players are not allowed to place more than three markers on one location in the city. Suppose a location has 3 markers on it (and therefore can't accept more), a card which causes a marker to be added to that location, is temporarily unplayable until a marker is removed from that location.

Thread: help...rules....unclear...must....try..to..understand.....

fizzix — 2005-04-26T17:53:21+00:00

I'm about ready to explode trying to figure out the rules to this game. I thought I understood and then this happened:

]]>

The card I want to play (at the bottom) says that the entrance of the casino is across from "my building". One of "my buildings" is the hotel.

The only spot where that could be true is at Cemetary and Cavendish right?

Does that mean the casino and hotel can both go on the board at the intersection of Cemetary and Cavendish?

Does that mean I would get all of the chips for both buildings? (scoring 10)

This game really needs a narrative of several turns in the rules....

Thread: Session Report

RPardoe — 2005-04-15T04:26:59+00:00

As Dave W (aka the other Dave or Dave 2) had indicated he was on his way, we decided to start Old Town as it played relatively quickly. As it turned out, Dave W arrived as we were just getting started, so we just switched from 3-player to 4-player set up and proceeded with the game.

In Old Town, the foundations of 16 buildings have been found in an Old Western Town. Players have clue cards that indicate which of the 16 spaces might be one of the 18 possible buildings in the game. Now, if that is all there was, the game would be rather static with only a few solutions. To add variety to the game, each player has 2 of the possible buildings as "their building" and many of the clues are relational with regards to the one of the player's buildings. As the player can decide which of their 2 buildings is the "my building" referenced in the cards, one has options for play.

When one of the cards is played, the possible locations for that building are marked with one of 5 chits named for that building. (Should more than 5 locations be possible, the card can't be played.) Each chit not played is 1 point for the player. So the initial cards (which list only 4 possible locations) would score 1 point for each player to start the game. As additional cards are played, some of the played chits might be picked up, resulting in additional points for the player. Until finally only a single location remains and the building is played there. Ideally, a player would try to set up a cascade of scoring wherein 2 or 3 buildings are uniquely identifed resulting in a large point total.

Once a building is placed on the board, a player will get a new building to place in front of them. It is important to note that once a building is placed on the board, it is no longer owned by anyone. Therefore, it can no longer be used for the "my building" deductions. Such clues only refer to the buildings currently in front of the player. Furthermore, even though a certain deduction card might have stated that buildings A and B are across the street from each other, such clues are only relevant to place the chits during that turn. Subsequent turns need not maintain internal consistency with prior cards...it is only the chits on the board that matter.

Finally, one might be worried about reaching a point of inconsistency between the cards in hand and the layout on the game board. But the game has a nice mechanism for coping with this. If a player has 2 such cards, they can be discarded. But to free up the game, a player can remove any 1 chit from the board. This might reduce trigger some scoring for the player, but it would mean the game can never stall as if all players had such contradictory cards, the chits would be removed one by one until all the buildings are placed.

After our initial moves for 1 point each, we all stepped up discovering more of the old town. Dave was the first to place a building (the judge's house) for 4 points (removing the 3 non-location chits + the final chit to place the building). Rich was the first to score a complex placing the school which forced the prison and netted Rich 8 points. Rich later had a play that would net him perhaps 10 points, but one problem - it was impossible as it would eliminate all the chits of one building. As a result, it was Sterling who could make the play placing the Saloon, Smith, and Printer for 9 points. A couple of rounds later and all the buildings were placed and the scores added up:

Sterling 27
Rich 22
Dave 16
Dave W 15

An interesting game. If one were to remove the two big plays, the scores would be a lot closer. Therefore, I wonder if we missed an opportunity for defensive play. I know I spent a few minutes thinking about one of my turns as I was worried how it would set up Sterling for his move. Finally realized, that one move would force the other two spaces to each have the remaining 2 chits for a pair of buildings. This would eliminate the third (Stable) from each to force it in the corner. So while it did nothing to stop Sterling's play for 4 (or was it 5) points, I did manage to get 3 out of it. I would like to play this again to see if there really is as much variety as I think in the game. Or if the variety is just an illusion, confused by the numerous name titles, and there are only a few patterns of buildings that develop in this game.

Thread: Clarification on markers allowed during turn from S. Riedel

Fledermaushaus — 2005-03-31T09:25:56+00:00

There are some differences, at least in wording, between the German and English rules. In the German rules it is stated that 'At the end of a turn, only three markers (at most) are allowed on a building site.' Stephan Riedel has confirmed that during a turn more markers are allowed on a site so long as that by the end of the turn there are only three.
The example I suggested to him was that at the start of a turn the situation is:
Site 1: B(arbers), D(rugstore), S(mithy)
Site 2: B, D, S.
Site 3: B, D.
Site 4: S
and these 3 buildings have no markers elsewhere.
I play a card with the effect:
Site 1: B, D, S, J(udge)
Site 2: B, D, S, J.
Site 3: B, D, J.
Site 4: S
I can now conclude that Site 4 must be the smithy as the other 3 buildings can only be in the other 3 sites. So at the end of the turn the board will be:
Site 1: B, D, J. (3 markers)
Site 2: B, D, J. (3 markers)
Site 3: B, D, J. (3 markers)
Site 4: The smithy {building card)
Because the sites do not have more than 3 markers each at the end of the turn this is allowed.

I presume (just in case anyone is now wondering) that it is not allowed to play a card that requires more than 5 markers at any time, even if, by deduction, they could be reduced during the turn to 5 or less. There are only 5 markers per building and the markers need to be placed before any deduction takes place.
Example 6 in the rules is not allowed as no conclusive deduction can be made to reduce the markers from 4 to 3.

Thread: Re Contradictory/complementary cards

Fledermaushaus — 2005-03-29T13:45:40+00:00

There are differences between the German and English rules, some things having been lost in translation. The German rules now have added to them the following:

'A card of Type B or Type C is not a confirmatory or contradictory card until it is unplayable with both your two 'own' buildings and any of the still 'free' buildings.'

A 'free' building is one that is still laying unclaimed next to the board.
Even then the rule could perhaps be clearer as the intent is that to be contradictory it will never be playable regardless of what markers may be on the board.

Thread: Session Report

daw65 — 2005-03-27T00:37:17+00:00

Heather needed to call it a night, as she needed to get up early the next day, so we were back to two. I decided to introduce Jim to a new game, Old Town.

Once again we may have picked the wrong game to start this late in the evening, as it took us some time to go through the rules and understand all the consequences of the cards. We set up the board and dealt out the starting hand of cards, and walked through some 10-12 turns in order to better understand the different cards and how they'd effect the markers on the board. Also, the game has a concept of "my building", where players pick two buildings that they get to use when playing cards. It gives players more control over how buildings are placed, and also provides more variety and replayability to the game since a card can be used with different buildings in different games. But it was another issue to wrap our heads around, and given the late hour and having just played Fresh Fish, we made slow going through the issues. But we made it through, and eventually we stopped and reset it for a real game.

In the two player game, each player starts with 10 cards, and winnows it down to a 4 card hand and a 6 card draw stack. Both Jim and Dave set themselves up for a nice starting play, but Jim got his out first, enabling him to very quickly locate the Stable, the Doc, and the Drugstore, all in the center of Main Street. It netted him 13 quick points and an early lead. Dave did manage to locate the Sheriff and the Laundry on the north west corner, and later placed the Printer and the Undertaker around the cemetery (makes sense, doesn't it?), taking out lots of tokens and finally catching up. Eventually the board evolved so that 12 buildings were placed, and no markers were left on the board, so we were trying to use our cards to pinpoint a building in order to get the 5 points and not leave markers for the other to score. Dave placed the Hotel and the School in that manner, and Jim ended the game by placing the last building. And in the final tally, the late game play gave Dave a 37-32 lead over Jim, and the win.

I like logic puzzles that aren't too much like work, and I like deduction games that aren't too much like work. Interestingly, this is the first and only deduction game I've played that doesn't seem too much like work. I'm still not sure how much my decisions matter in this game, but so far it really feels like they matter some. At any rate, I'm enjoying the investigation.

Thread: Re:Question regarding placing more than 5 markers

Christine Biancheria — 2005-03-25T18:56:56+00:00

Fledermaushaus (#453251),

I agree.

Thread: Re:Question regarding placing more than 5 markers

Fledermaushaus — 2005-03-14T18:47:59+00:00

daw65 (#447085),
Yes, I'm quite sure this is fine. The limit of 5 places is for each building, not the total for both.