Game: 18EU

Thread: Re: Of 8s and 9s...

BFoy — 2008-02-12T13:39:15+00:00

Excalabur wrote:
Rulebook, page 7, about 2/3 of the way down wrote:

Except in the Minor Company Final Merger Round, Minor Companies may never merge with a Corporation once it
has operated. However, if a Corporation is started but not floated, any Minor Companies that would be legally
allowed to merge are allowed to do so in a subsequent Stock Round just as if the Corporation had been started that
Stock Round.

That's from the "version 1.0.0" rules off of the Deep Thought Games web site.

Thanks for letting me know.

Excalabur wrote:
I feel that letting Ed have four minors in the south for $60 apiece is where it all went wrong for not-him: an extra minor is worth an appreciable amount, especially when he had two natural corporations out of it.

After the minor auction, I thought Ed had a slight lead over me and Jimmy was out of the game. Jimmy let Ed bid up every company which was a big mistake.

In OR1, I made $115 while Ed made $160. And in OR2, I made $170 compared to Ed's $175. But OR3 I made $282 to Ed's $200 and OR4 I made around $312 and Ed made around $200. So I had $200 more to invest. So after IA and SR1, I am basically 1 share behind Ed. But after SR2, I am 1 share ahead. I stayed about even with Ed the next set of ORs even though both my companies didn't run one set of ORs. Thats because my companies were much more profitable than Ed's companies.

Excalabur wrote:
Regarding your lack of major in the first SR, you had 2/7/8/9/12 + £40. This should result in ~$340 on hand in the first SR if the 9 doesn't run to Krakow. You can then merge the 2 and the 12 at £100 and you're cooking with gas. (Alternately, and perhaps preferably, the 7 and 9.) I don't see where the downside is, here? You said you made 'mad profits' with your minors, but surely two ORs worth of trains existing is better than having a bunch of minors with maybe two three trains between them?

Lets say I merge the 2 and 12. I have 5 shares at $100. I have a $210 run, $105 to me. But I made $105 with the '2' and '12' alone, plus $57. Hmmm, though this would have slowed Ed down. His '13' and '15' minors were isolated. He put a 3-train into '13' and he couldn't have done that if I bought two 3-trains. Maybe thats a wash.

But this would have given me two 3-trains instead of 4-trains. I had really good 4-train runs with my companies. But I get an extra run with the 3-trains, higher share values. Maybe you are right. I didn't want to merge the '12' because it was making $120. But it might have been better to have done that. It didn't hurt me much though. But it helped Ed.

Excalabur wrote:
There's also groupthink in the auction values, obviously: the 15 is great (in my experience) if you have the 3 or 14, similarly the 3 is good if you have the 14, 15, or (worse) the 1. But I don't see that the 3 is really £30 better than the 15....

I agree, but thats not group think, thats Jimmy making a big mistake. He got the '4' instead of the '15'.

Excalabur wrote:
Am I reading correctly that not all of the corporations got started?

Ed was full at 20 shares, I had 19 shares. Jimmy was the only one who could start a company and he didn't have the $$$. Actually, Jimmy was $2 short of buying a share of my stock. That would have left me and Ed tied with 19 shares a piece. And I would have won. I would have given Jimmy the $2 if it was legal, lol. The SR after that there is no reason to open a company since the company will only run once and the company isn't fully capitalized.

Its unlikely a 3 player game will have more than 7 majors started since the cert limit is 20 and 7 majors give 63 certs.

Thread: Re: Of 8s and 9s...

Excalabur — 2008-02-12T00:58:10+00:00

Rulebook, page 7, about 2/3 of the way down wrote:

Except in the Minor Company Final Merger Round, Minor Companies may never merge with a Corporation once it
has operated. However, if a Corporation is started but not floated, any Minor Companies that would be legally
allowed to merge are allowed to do so in a subsequent Stock Round just as if the Corporation had been started that
Stock Round.

That's from the "version 1.0.0" rules off of the Deep Thought Games web site.

I feel that letting Ed have four minors in the south for $60 apiece is where it all went wrong for not-him: an extra minor is worth an appreciable amount, especially when he had two natural corporations out of it.

Regarding your lack of major in the first SR, you had 2/7/8/9/12 + £40. This should result in ~$340 on hand in the first SR if the 9 doesn't run to Krakow. You can then merge the 2 and the 12 at £100 and you're cooking with gas. (Alternately, and perhaps preferably, the 7 and 9.) I don't see where the downside is, here? You said you made 'mad profits' with your minors, but surely two ORs worth of trains existing is better than having a bunch of minors with maybe two three trains between them?

There's also groupthink in the auction values, obviously: the 15 is great (in my experience) if you have the 3 or 14, similarly the 3 is good if you have the 14, 15, or (worse) the 1. But I don't see that the 3 is really £30 better than the 15....

Am I reading correctly that not all of the corporations got started?

Thread: Re: Of 8s and 9s...

BFoy — 2008-02-11T12:15:36+00:00

Excalabur wrote:
Rules note: you can't merge a minor into a major unless the major has never run or it's the Final Exchange Round.

Lol, we've been playing 18EU for nearly 10 years that way. I wonder if this is a new rule? I will ask Ed check the rules to see what his set says.

Excalabur wrote:
I'll have a longer post later, but this game (especially the IA) seemed to go oddly. I feel that not opening a corporation the first SR is crazy in 18EU.

Thats why I wrote this session report! This game was definitely unusual. However I don't see how I could have successfully done anything else. If I started a company with the '2', I'd have had to start it at $76 to get all 5 shares. Which means it would have had $65 + $304 = $369 in it. So I get a '3' train. That really limits what I could do.

Instead, I got 3 shares of companies which had multiple engines. When I started my companies, it was at $100. I had to fall back 1 time, but then I was making alot of $$$ with 4-trains. It seemed to work out but it did speed up the 2 companies which opened. Of course, I had so much $$$ in SR2, I opened 2 majors at $100 and bought a $110 share of stock.

BTW, reading my response just now, I realized it might come across as condescending. That wasn't my intention so I did some wordsmithing and hopefully changed the tone. I certainly appreciated Excalabur's response. I am alittle chagrined that we could have been playing this wrong for the last 10 years. And I very much want to hear the opinion of other 18EU players about this wierd game.

Thread: Re: Of 8s and 9s...

Excalabur — 2008-02-11T01:13:30+00:00

Rules note: you can't merge a minor into a major unless the major has never run or it's the Final Exchange Round.

I'll have a longer post later, but this game (especially the IA) seemed to go oddly. I feel that not opening a corporation the first SR is crazy in 18EU.

Thread: Of 8s and 9s...

BFoy — 2008-02-10T19:55:11+00:00

Ed, Jimmy and I played what is becoming one of my favorite 18xx games.

Jimmy started the bidding by putting up the '3' then passing, he got it for a cheap $90.

Then I put up the '8' and got it for a reasonable $60.

At this point Ed and Jimmy put up the '6' and '11', I thought they should go for $50. Ed disagreed and got both for $60. At this point Ed and Jimmy were laughing about the '8' getting shut-out.

Since things were going poorly in the south, I put up the '12' (my favorite minor) and got it for a awesome $90!

Ed then snatched up the '5' and '10' for $60 each.

I put up the '7' (setting up my favorite combo) and got it for $70!

Then Ed put up the '15' and got it for $60. And Jimmy put up the '9' which I got for $80! Getting the '9' turned out to be critical for me.

At this time, Ed had 5 minors. The 5, 6, 10, 11 and 15. Ed had $150 left. I had 4 minors. The 7, 8, 9 and 12. I had $150. Jimmy had the '3' and $360.

I realized that Jimmy was trying to put up all the companies me & Ed wanted and try to get us out of $$$, so he could get his companies cheap. I am sure Ed was thinking the same thing.

So I put up the '14', Ed and Jimmy got into a bidding war, Jimmy got it for $130, ouch! Ed put up the '1' and it cost Jimmy $120, double ouch!! Jimmy is left with $110. Both me ($150) and Ed ($140) have more $$$ than him.

Jimmy put up the '2' which I got for $110. I put up the '13', Jimmy said I should have put up the '4' and he had a point. Ed got it for $115. And Jimmy got the crappy '4' for $40. So Ed got 6 minors, I had 5 minors and Jimmy had 4 minors.

The first set of ORs had the usual '1' to London, the '2' & '12', '3' & '14' and '5' & '10' building towards one another. The '4' built southwest, the '6' built north, the '7' is going to Hamburg, the '11' is going to Trieste and the '15' heads south since it has nothing better to do.

The '13' was cut off in Jimmy's attempt to connect the '14' and the '4'. It didn't happen, but it limited the '13' for awhile. Then the '8' and '9' built toward each other. This generated alot of talk, but the '8' can afford to blast the mountain into Krakau in OR3 which means the '9' can connect up and run for $90. The '8' also has single 2-train run of $90 in OR4! This Berlin to Budapest run was very profitable all game.

In the first SR, Ed and Jimmy both opened a company by merging in 2 minors. The lousy '6' and '11' for Ed and the great '1' and '3' for Jimmy. I invested in 2 shares of Jimmy's $100 company and a share of Ed's $90 company. It made no sense for me to start a company.

The next set of ORs, my minors made huge profits while the majors snatched up all the '3's and a '4'.

The next SR, Ed uses 2 minors to open another corp, the '13' is still viable with a '3' train. The '15' is now an empty husk.

Jimmy uses the '14' to start a company, merges the '4' into Ed's first major and immediately sells it.

I merge the '2', '12' and '7' into one major. The '9' and '8' into another major. And bought the share that Jimmy sold.

During the next sets of ORs my majors fall back and buy 4-trains (the only majors all game that don't start with trains). But my majors make alot when they do run. Jimmy cuts me off when I try to connect to Paris.

No new majors were started during the next SR. Jimmy buys the poison 4-train and the first 5-train next OR. Both Ed's corps got the last 2 5-trains. Jimmy's 2nd major was train locked. One of my corps got the 1st 6-train. The next OR Jimmy's 2nd major got the 2nd 6-train and my 2nd major got the first 8-train.

All the shares were purchased next SR, unfortunately the shares in my first corp were left last so Ed was able to get one more share than me. I didn't have a large enough $$$ lead to make up for being one share behind Ed, so we called the game at that point. Jimmy was way behind.

Thread: Re: First play-learning the value(or lack thereof) of the minors

bismark66 — 2007-12-11T20:05:34+00:00

With some of the weaker minors, it often makes sense to set them up so that you can merge the minor (that of course will have no trains and no cash) with someone else's company. That's what some of the minors in Vienna and Berlin are for, IMO. Realize they aren't going to make much money and use them to move trains and cash around until the final merge round.

Thread: Re: First play-learning the value(or lack thereof) of the minors

bismark66 — 2007-12-11T20:02:38+00:00

I've seen (but can't find here on BGG) a document that talks about bidding strategy in 18EU - I know the author, so I'm going to encourage him to put it up here as well.

I've seen that too, but I googled it and can't find it.

In my own personal experience, M10 is almost completely worthless unless you also have M5. I've seen a few players lose specifically because they were stuck with M10 (including me!).

M13-15 can be very powerful because of their central location and easy access to plenty of little dink cities. Same goes for M2 and M12. The minors to the east out of Berlin (4, 7, and 9) and around Vienna (5, 6, 8 and 11) are not so good. Unless you have two of them that can connect easily (easily means you can merge them in SR2). Stay away from M10 like it's contaminated with the eubola virus or something. If you do get it cheap don't make a mistake by trying to form a major company out of just M10 with no other merge partner, just let it die.

To make sure no player ends up with more minors than everyone else. If someone does manage this, they get an early cash-flow boost, which is never a good thing for an opponent to have in any 18xx game.

We actually have a house rule that says if the auction ends with one player having more companies than everyone else, they win and we start over. Obviously this doesn't hold for a 4 player game, someone will be stuck with just 3 companies. If it's M1, M2, and M12 maybe they have a chance.

Thread: Re: First play-learning the value(or lack thereof) of the mi

Excalabur — 2007-11-22T00:33:49+00:00

I just realised that I forgot two things that are relevant

1. Don't forget that in the first OR of all time the minors get two tile lays. This is quite important: this means that between two minors you get six tile lays to hook them up before the first SR, which is a long way. The 2 and 12, for instance, often hook up almost immediately, even if owned by different players.

2. The minors typically go for $60-$120. Vienna's minors are generally terrible, but if you can get two of them, plus a really good single minor (the #1) in a 5-player game you're doing well. Generally more north and more west is more money.

Thread: Re: First play-learning the value(or lack thereof) of the mi

Excalabur — 2007-11-22T00:29:11+00:00

The 'no one bought a three train because the two train was making money' comment baffles me: why not buy a three train if you can run it. Many of the minors (not all) can use two trains.

Similarly, it becomes obvious with more plays that you generally want to open your first corporation in the first SR: you make at least as much money, you get the cash to buy some more trains, and you get ahead in the stock appreciation game. Oh, and you can lay green tiles.

Usually the first 3-train, as far as I've seen, gets bought in the first OR of the 2nd set, either by a minor via some train juggling, or by the first major.

Thread: Re: First play-learning the value(or lack thereof) of the mi

loiosh13 — 2007-11-21T22:34:16+00:00

The two key things in the minor auction in 18eu (which I've played a fair bit, so probably just as well I wasn't in that game are:

1) To make sure no player ends up with more minors than everyone else. If someone does manage this, they get an early cash-flow boost, which is never a good thing for an opponent to have in any 18xx game.

and

2) To get minors with some synergy with your others. So as the auction goes on, you will be more interested in some minors, and less in others, based primarily on their synergistic value with the ones you already have. So, while you guys were correct in thinking those minors starting in the major cities would be big, the other useful ones are those that have good synergy with either those in the cities, or with a good set of other minors.

I've seen (but can't find here on BGG) a document that talks about bidding strategy in 18EU - I know the author, so I'm going to encourage him to put it up here as well.

Glad you guys enjoyed it, though - our first game was similar, with a lot of "wish I'd done that instead of this" moments!

Tim

Thread: Re: First play-learning the value(or lack thereof) of the minors

BFoy — 2007-11-21T22:08:14+00:00

Hmmm, your minors are not working well together. Though the 1 and the 9 don't usually work with other minors, the rest do.

Thread: First play-learning the value(or lack thereof) of the minors

HazMatt — 2007-11-21T19:05:09+00:00

I hosted the game at my house on a Friday evening. A number of us wanted to play some more 18xx, especially after a night of it recently. With some pre-game discussion via email, we decided on 18EU. The reasons included:
- we had 4-5 players
- none of us had played it before
- we all had played at least a couple of other 18xx games before
- I could get it setup ahead of time as I own it
- the rules were available online (so we could read them in advance)

As it turned out this extra level of planning really made a difference to the length and pace of the game. The group ended up being: Kent, Mike, Eric, George and Myself.

18EU differs from many other 18xx variants in that there are no private companies. The opening auction is for the 15 minor companies. It’s similar to a dutch auction and they all have to be sold before the first operating round. Having not played before, it was difficult to judge the relative value of the different starting locations that the companies offered. I think everybody guessed that the ones that started in Paris, Vienna and Berlin were probably more valuable, but even those didn’t get bid up very high. We all ended up with 3, mine were all in France and their proximity worked out fairly well for me.

We all started building track and running our 2 trains. For the most part we were trying to maximize revenue and looking forward to merging our minors into corporations later. What we didn’t realize was that the minors are really just stepping stones to get the corps open. They are not very useful otherwise. This has a lot to do with their tile placement restrictions - they cannot upgrade tiles. They get yellows and that’s it. Not understanding the impact of that made for some challenges. If you hadn’t planned specifically for merging (often at the cost of some operating revenue), it got very difficult to connect your minors so that they can merge.

]]>

A couple of us opened corporations and we all started to figure out what needed to happen. We lingered in phase 2 for a long time as people made some decent money with their 2 trains. Finally, Mike killed the 2 trains and we all upgraded ok, but then he killed the 3 trains and that hit us hard as his company operated first and few of us had any trains.

From this point on, the phases moved at a quicker pace. Before long all the corporations had been started and the board was getting crowded. We all hit our certificate limits. There was a bit of stock selling and one corp. changed hands, but overall it was not an especially turbulent market. Generally we seemed to be optimizing our routes more than sabotaging others - this was true of token placement as well.

]]>

We were well into phase 8 when the bank ran out - or at least came within 100 pounds. Mike won by a good couple thousand, I came in second. We ended up finishing in about 4 hours with 5 players. That’s a very reasonable time for this game and happened because we had all reviewed the rules in advance and made a conscious to effort plan our next actions during other players’ turns.

This is a good 18xx game with several rule idiosyncrasies that I believe will make future plays a lot more interesting. There were several ‘ah-ha’s for me. I also want to note that the copy I have is from DeepThougt Games and the production is excellent - the board is well mounted and the laminated hexes and info cards are very nice.

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HazMatt — 2007-11-03T17:28:20+00:00

5 players, phase 6, the first 8 train is about to be bought

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HazMatt — 2007-11-03T17:26:03+00:00

5 players, phase 3, 4 corpoarations open so far.

Thread: Re: Web published?

Sprydle — 2007-07-03T23:56:20+00:00

I can very much recommend the publishing that DeepThought Games does (they're now making the 18EU game). Their quality and materials are FANTASTIC--not to mention all the on-board play-aids and "reminders." Worth every penny!

Thread: Re: Web published?

simon craddock — 2007-07-03T22:27:41+00:00

The first copies of the game were print and play files
available from the 18xx Yahoo group.

These enable the designer to get feedback on the design and implement any
final changes before the published print run (when the
files are removed from the site).

This is David`s standard way of operating as he has also
posted the files for 18scan,18VA and 18FL in this way.

18West files are currently on the site for beta testing.

Thread: Web published?

brauerle — 2007-07-03T21:56:06+00:00

Hello.

What does (Web published) mean on the publishers list? Is this game also available for downloading and printing?

Thanks,
Michael

Thread: Re: Railroading in Europe

Shane Beck — 2006-12-05T01:45:05+00:00

The main kick in the modified dutch auction is that you must keep money back to keep players honest, otherwise the last two players collude to buy the minors for very small sums of money. I must say it is one of my favorite 18XX games with heaps of replay value.

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dawnsworld — 2006-11-21T03:28:16+00:00

proof people actually play 18EU

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kirkusmaximus — 2006-10-22T16:52:15+00:00

18EU Charters and Certificates

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kirkusmaximus — 2006-10-22T16:51:28+00:00

18EU Map

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kirkusmaximus — 2006-10-22T16:32:20+00:00

Complete box contents of 18EU

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Werbaer — 2006-10-22T15:21:13+00:00

better image of the box cover

Thread: Re: 18EU - No more privates on auction, just some minors

sourwyrm — 2006-10-11T22:00:21+00:00

one thing that impressed me about this game, is that it shouldn't ever play the same twice

i really like the mechanic of turning minors into major corps

Thread: 18EU - No more privates on auction, just some minors

kirkusmaximus — 2006-10-11T19:28:42+00:00

MINORS - If you are like me then one of the things that makes a new game hard to play is how you value things that are auctioned off. In a pure auction game this isn't quite as frustrating because determining the value of things is the point of the game. In 18XX games it is a little more brutal than that. Not knowing what to pay for the privates/minors on offer at the start of many titles can determine the winner. In 18EU, it is the value of the minors that will cause you the greatest trouble.

The reason for this is that 18EU starts with 15 minor companies operating on the board instead of any privates. These companies work like a normal public company while operating but pay 50/50 to the bank/owner and have no stock. All 15 come with a 2 train and these are the only 2 trains in the game. This means that the games stays in yellow phase until a public company is formed or until a minor can afford a 3 train, usually 2 sets of 2 ORs. The kicker is that you must merge at least one of your minors into any public you form, trading the charter for a 10% share in the public.

As experience is gained in the game different players will value different minors or groups of minors differently. This greatly enhances the replayability of the game as it will never play the same way twice. One additional factor is that if you play 4 or 6 you can't divide the minors evenly. The odd player out can really suffer unless they come up with 2 of the higher paying early minors.

COMPONENTS - As with all the Deepthought Games published titles the components are quality. I bought my copy as a completely assembled kit less money and it is worth the extra money I paid versus assembling/cutting myself. The shares and hex tiles are all the same size, laminated and thick. Gameboard is laminated and mounted on thick foamcore so it is light yet durable. All the tokens are wooden giving them enough heft to stay put absent a grand sneeze or arm wipe. Colors are vibrant on all the components and there is a nice run value chart in addition to the stock chart. The only thing that is cumbersome is the uniformity of symbols used by the European companies. However, this is a necessary flaw to maintain realism and pretty soon you too will be calling them "Black chicken, Yellow Chicken and Blue Chicken."

OVERALL - The rest of the game plays much like the other entries in the 18XX world. A few differences of note are the different ways to get bonus payouts for your runs. One is to run from a red off board hex to another. If you do this you get bonus income for every station token of your company that you pass through. This can be anywhere from 10 to 150 so it is worth working toward. Also, you can own a pullman car which takes a train slot but doubles the value of any one city your train goes to/through.

This is currently my second favorite 18XX and I recommend it for anyone who enjoys train games. It eliminates some of the shark plays that are available in 1830, offers lots of variability at startup and plays smoothly in abour 250-300 minutes with experienced players.

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kirkusmaximus — 2006-10-08T08:34:59+00:00

8 AM at Nuke Con - Position 1 about to begin minor auction

Thread: Re: Money Pack is Inadequate

kirkusmaximus — 2006-09-01T20:36:34+00:00

John,

I feel your pain and have found the best thing to do for all 18xx series games is to use poker chips as a substitute. As long as you ensure that you keep the bank at the same grand total you can use whatever denominations are most critical. In your example, having several extra stacks of 20s in place of some 100s would do nicely.

Matt

Thread: Re: Railroading in Europe

TheCat — 2006-08-19T15:08:40+00:00

Note that 18EU is a modified dutch auction, as there is the opportunity for a regular auction before the dutch auction begins. In a true dutch auction, the opening price would be wildly high, something like $200. In 18EU, it works like this:

Player A selects a minor company and decides to either pass or start a regular auction with a $100 bid. If Player A passes, then Player B decides to either pass or start a regular auction with a $100 bid. If Player B passes, then Player C decides to either pass or start a regular auction with a $100 bid. If Player C passes, then Player D decides to either pass or start a regular auction with a $100 bid. If Player D passes, then a dutch auction begins, with Player A having first opportunity to buy the company at $90.

If at any point during the first round described above, a player initiates a regular auction, the dutch auction does not start.

Note that Player A has nearly no incentive to start a regular auction, and is better off waiting to see if the dutch auction will occur.

Thread: Re: Railroading in Europe

Elf__Man — 2006-08-19T11:09:45+00:00

TheCat wrote:
The initial auction and tile lays to prepare the red-to-red routes are crucial, so this one has a pretty steep learning curve, even for experienced 18xx players.

During the rules explaination it is very important to explain the red-to-red routes. The more experienced players should pick it up there... New map sublties are always a bear, however, and leniency during the first game should be a given

Thread: Re: Railroading in Europe

JadedGamer — 2006-08-19T10:51:11+00:00

Elf__Man wrote:
After everyone 'passes to intiate an auction', then the minor goes up for sale at $10 less. After it passes around the sale price drops $10 each time, eventually someone will flinch and purchase the company.
Also known as a Dutch auction. I'm surprised the mechanism isn't used more often in games, since in many ways it feels more tactical than traditional bid-raising systems, since a) it doesn't necessarily hand the win to whoever has the most resources/cash, and b) you cannot tell who is really interested until they jump for it - with bid-raising your bid declares an interest the others will react to.

http://www.agorics.com/Library/Auctions/auction3.html

Thread: Re: Railroading in Europe

TheCat — 2006-08-19T01:27:27+00:00

Even though I lost both of the games at GenCon, I really enjoyed this one. The initial auction and tile lays to prepare the red-to-red routes are crucial, so this one has a pretty steep learning curve, even for experienced 18xx players.

Thread: Re: Railroading in Europe

Elf__Man — 2006-08-19T01:08:23+00:00

I have heard great things about the moderator, and have a copy somewhere on my old comp. However, I like to play with poker chips while waiting/thinking, and the moderator would take away from that tactile experience.

Thread: Re: Railroading in Europe

clearclaw — 2006-08-19T01:06:01+00:00

Even the presumably longer 18XX games like 1830, 1856 and 1870 can be played comfortably in under 3 hours with Lemmi's moderator.

Thread: Re: Railroading in Europe

Elf__Man — 2006-08-18T22:09:16+00:00

www.deepthoughtgames.com has quite a bit of the kits. 18AL and 18GA are also available from kits. (forget the site offhand, but I know it's on the BGG listing)

Of all the kits, the following are 'shorter' games that finish in 3hrs or less: 18AL, 18GA, 18VA, 18Scan, and 18FL.

There are a couple more that are in playtest mode (yahoo 18xx group) that could be available later this year.

Thread: Re: Railroading in Europe

Sexy Amy — 2006-08-18T21:11:35+00:00

It's nice to hear about all these 18xx games, even though, unfortunately, I will never get to own or play them all.

Thread: Railroading in Europe

Elf__Man — 2006-08-18T19:31:47+00:00

I have played 18EU serveral times, with my most recent pair of games being at GenCon.

Notable differences from 'standard' 18xx:

Minor Companies: Minors in 18EU are auctioned off at the beginning of the game. All 15 have starting bids of $100 each. Due to the starting cash, some of these will need to sell for less than $100. After everyone 'passes to intiate an auction', then the minor goes up for sale at $10 less. After it passes around the sale price drops $10 each time, eventually someone will flinch and purchase the company.

The major companies form by merging at least 1 minor company into the new corporation with each minor being traded in for a 10% share of the major. [60% maximum holdings for a major]. The final routes in the game are basically set up by these initial minors. Routes occur quickly as the minors lay 2 yellow track in their first OR (that's 30 yellow track total for the first OR!... board fills fast.)

Trains: Trains are 2,3,4,5,6, and 8. There is also a Pullman car that will double the value of any 1 city it hits. The Pullman is discarded if the company runs out of trains, AND the Pullman counts as a train for limits purposes. However, it can be discarded voluntarily (unlike trains). Whistle stops do not count against train limit, so hitting the whistles becomes increasingly important. Late game runs we've seen have been 65-85 / share for a single train.

Map: Map is of central Europe. There are no tile city shortages, as everything can upgrade to Brown (minor starting cities) or Grey (other major cities).

There are 'red to red' bonus' for each token hit during the run. The tokens are prespent for $100 when the major is formed, so tokening occurs often. For each token the bonus is $0/10/20/30 depending on yellow/green/brown/grey phase. With the initial minor merged company, this can be up to +$15/share for the run.

Tiles are 'strait line' tiles, so routes will happen quicker than with 'curved' 1830 tiles.

Shares and Stock: When a company opens, 1 minor is merged in and the president's share is purchased; which leads to 30% immediate ownership. The company floats for operation at 50%, and minors can be traded in if they connect directly to the company or if stations occupy the same city (Paris, Berlin, Vienna).

Stock value increases only if the total operation is >= existing stock value.

Overall: I like the feel for the game, but it will come as a first game shock regarding how final routes are planned during the yellow and green phases. (Even more so than other 18xx). Since Whistle stops do not count against train limits, then this is more plausible, as a route can simply bypass a tokened city.

Length: Game play is about 300-360 minutes with experienced 18xx players. I own the game through a kit purchase.

Image

Werbaer — 2006-07-15T11:41:18+00:00

the 8 major companies

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Werbaer — 2006-07-15T11:41:12+00:00

18EU map

Thread: Re: Session Report

beckerc — 2006-01-23T12:48:00+00:00

Hm... one player got five companies? That sounds like someone made a big mistake. In our games the companies usually are evenly distributed with the player who gets only three private companies already struggling not to come in last.

Thread: Re: Session Report

beckerc — 2006-01-23T12:40:28+00:00

How many of the extra trains did you use? Gameplay very much depends on the number of extra 3s and if the extra 4 is used.

Thread: Money Pack is Inadequate

John Weber — 2005-08-16T18:19:26+00:00

Just received my copy of this game which has been recommended because it is faster than other 18xx games. My first impression when playing through the sample game was one of shock -- with 15 separate company treasuries at the start of the game, why did someone not think to redesign the distribution of the money pack so more 20s were available? I found myself constantly having to make change after every play to get enough 20s in the bank -- very annoying. Rest of the game, substantively speaking, seems very intriguing with some novel concepts like the Pullman cars and the merging the small companies for a share of the big ones. Just wish someone had thought through the detail of how many 20s would be needed to get through the first two operating rounds ...

Thread: Session Report

simon craddock — 2005-03-21T11:06:12+00:00

A four player game with 4 experienced players Dave,Old Geoff,Young Jeff and Simon.
After the initial auction Geoff had companies 1,6,7,9 Jeff had 5,8,11,14 Dave had 2,4,12 and i had 3,10,12,13.
Every one had their own areas to work in Geoff(Berlin),Jeff(Italy),Dave(Paris north)and Simon(Paris south).
After the first set of operating rounds Simon merged companies 3 and 13 at 90,Dave merged 2 and 12 at 82,Jeff merged 5 and 8 at 82 while Geoff could not form a company as he had no links between his minors.
In the next OR all bar 1 three trains were bought and Geoff got his connection between 7 and 6.
In the next SDR Geoff launched his first company with the merger of 7 and 6 while Simon chose not to form a second company and invested in the good paying shares.At the end of the SDR Simon had an small advantage with one more share than the others.
In the next set of OR`s Geoff bought the last 3 train and Simon the first 4 train.
The last four companies were formed in the next SDR Geoff from 7,Dave from 4,Jeff from 11 and Simon from 12.At the end of the SDR Simon had reached the certificate limit while the other players were 3 below.
The mid game saw the companies trying to avoid the poison 4 train whilst building up routes for the end game.Dave`s companies had the Paris-Berlin route,Jeff had Rome-Vienna,Geoff had Berlin-London and Berlin-Vienna while Simon had Paris-Berlin via the south.Earnings at this stage ranged between 24 and 44(the higher values for the companies with multiple trains)
Geoff finally bit the bullet to buy the 4 and a 5 train which saw the companies each buying a permanent train.
The last set of OR`s saw earnings between 28 and 62 and the bank breaking by less than 100.
The final scores saw 500 between players in the order
Simon,Dave,Jeff and Geoff.

Thread: Session Report

jtamplin — 2004-03-16T17:31:31+00:00

A 4-player game: Karl, Russell, Alan and myself (John). All but Russell had played once before.

In the initial auction round, I picked up minor #1 for $80, then bid up Karl to $120 on #2. I took #3 at $70, while Russell got #4 and #5 cheap (I think $60/ea). I got #6 for $70, wanting to have some influence on the other side of the board, but retaining enough cash to make a run for either #12 or #15. #7 went to Alan for $80 or $90, #8 to Russell for $60, #9 to Alan for $80, #10 to Russell for $60, #11 to Russell for $50, #12 to Karl for $125, #13 to Alan for $80 or so, #14 to Karl for $90, and #15 to me for $90.

At this point, I was pretty happy with my position -- I had 3 minors all with access to Paris and close to London, with one other minor on the other side of the board. #1 built to London via Lille (cutting off #2 from London), resulting in early runs of $90. #3 connected to Dijon, #4 to Leipzig, #5 to Trieste and U8, #6 to Prague via Brunn, #7 to Magdeburg headed towards Hannover, #8 heading north towards Krakau, #9 to Thorn, #10 to Turin, #11 to Trieste, #12 to Rotterdam headed towards Ulrecht, #13 to Nuremburg headed towards Frankfurt, #14 to Stuttgart, and #15 connected up with Dijon, gaining access to Paris.

From the first two stock rounds, I was making quite a bit -- $90 from #1, $65 from #3, $60 from #6, $80 from #15. Coupled with what I had left over, this allowed me to float a corporation -- I was the only one who had enough cash to do it. I chose to trade in only #15 for the corporation, figuring that #3 could make more for me on its own, plus I would have two track builds per turn (but in practice this only happened a few times, due to difficulties getting track upgraded). Everyone else chose to buy 2 shares of my company, leaving me with only 40% as president. During the operating rounds that followed, I considered stripping the company and dumping it (which would have wound up on Russell), but I decided it would also hurt me which meant I was giving an advantage to the other two players.

In the second stock round, everyone floated their own company (the second for me). I was a bit tight on money, so I was at 50% in both companies while everyone else had 60% of their company. I traded #6 in for the second company, Karl #2, Russell #11, and Alan #7.

Nothing unusual happened in these operating rounds, and in the next stock round Alan, Karl and I were able to start the final three companies due to Alan having the Priority Deal card. At this point, I felt I was in a really good position, having 3 companies so I had an extra share over everyone else (2 over Russell) -- the only problem might be getting permanent trains for all of mine, since the older two were pretty low on money.

As the game progressed, everyone got permanent trains without much difficulty. Alan wound up with a 6 and 8 in one of his companies, but was unable to fully utilize them, although in the final turn he was able to hit $99 earnings/share. Every other company didn't have any treasure stock and had no way to make any money without withholding, so most had either an 8 or a 5/6 with a Pullman (Karl had 8+P in one of his).

We broke the bank pretty quickly, with most railroads paying over $50/share dividends, and the final result was John 1st, Russell 2nd (-$216), Karl 3rd (-$6 from Russel), and Alan last a few hundred behind Karl.

After the game, Russell and Karl lamented early mistakes they felt cost them the game (Karl paying too much for 2/12, Russell failing to start a corporation in the first turn by merging two minors into it). Everyone enjoyed the game and looked forward to playing it again.