Game: Star Traders

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Slabcity — 2008-08-15T13:51:21+00:00

Complete back side.

Thread: Re: Review by SOS, with variant personalities

markjreed — 2008-05-06T01:03:08+00:00

sos1 wrote:
Sometime in 1995 or so, I received permission from Mark J. Reed to post the following

Glad to see our rules alive and well on the 'Geek. I'm still not sure how successful they were - the modified Psychic is definitely a win, but the Hero and Negotiator, even modified, are severely limited in value simply because rapidly gaining Stellors without the corresponding Prestige, or vice-versa, doesn't do you much good victory-condition-wise. The modified Insider helps a player get their Imperial Contract faster, but they still have to get into petition range for it to do any good.

I do need to pull that game out and give Warpin' Wanda and friends a try.

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Zopper-Alf — 2007-08-18T12:21:18+00:00

Artwork by Kelly Freas

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Zopper-Alf — 2007-08-18T12:21:13+00:00

Artwork by Kelly Freas

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Zopper-Alf — 2007-08-18T12:21:00+00:00

b&w graphic inside of the rule book

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Zopper-Alf — 2007-08-18T12:19:29+00:00

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Zopper-Alf — 2007-08-18T12:18:03+00:00

From the back of the box

Thread: Re: Review by SOS, with variant personalities

sos1 — 2007-03-07T13:56:43+00:00

True, I didn't mention the advanced version. We like the shorter game, so never used it. Pull it out again - it deserves a re-visit!

Thread: Re: Review by SOS, with variant personalities

plurie — 2007-03-07T12:48:16+00:00

I love this game, but seldom get to play it anymore. You didn't discuss the advanced rules, where instead of delivering a single "imperial contract" to win, you have to build a network of "imperial bases." This was the version we played the most. It takes a bit longer, but, IMO, is a much better game, with a lot more strategy involved.

Thread: Review by SOS, with variant personalities

sos1 — 2007-03-06T23:25:39+00:00

Isaac Asimov's Star Traders is one of the most underrated economic games made. Sure, it's a light game that doesn't take a lot of time to play, but it's a lot of fun, has a decent amount of player interaction, and requires enough skill that it has a high replay value. But for some reason, this game never sold well and continues to have a "fluffy" reputation on the net - undeserved, in my opinion.

Player Interaction

Finding economic games with a lot of player interaction isn't easy: most of them play like multi-player solitaire. Star Traders gets around this in two main ways: you can play cards on other players every turn, and each cargo to be delivered is available to all, so the game consists of numerous mini-races. The cards allow you to do various nasty things to each other (or avoid nasty things being done to you), which tends to spark some interesting exchanges. As for the many races, more than one person can be carrying the same cargo, but only the first to deliver it gets payment and prestige for it. The other player(s) can dump their cargo (bad for your prestige) or carry it, taking up space in your hold, hoping another request for it will turn up.

The Basics

It's a nice looking game, really. Plastic space ships, decent cards, mounted board.

The board has 36 solar systems, laid out in five arcing arms and a central hub. There are a number of cards turned up each turn, which show which cargo is available where, and which worlds need that particular cargo. Each player has a spaceship which can carry up two cargoes, and movement is along jump lines, which require you to roll above a certain number to navigate successfully. The number to roll depends on the length of the jump - the lines are clearly color-coded, and you usually have multiple routes to choose from, so you always know what you need to roll when choosing which way to travel. But the choice of taking the slow but sure route or the fast but iffy route is yours every turn ...

Jump Stations

However, each player starts with one trading station, and can build more at other solar systems - and jumping to a trading station is automatic (except for the longest jump lines), if you have permission. You always have permission to jump to your own stations, but getting permission at other players' stations may take some bargaining - another aspect of the game which encourages player interaction. Bargaining can include money, of course, but also promises to play good cards for other players and/or refrain from playing bad cards on them.

Engines & Personalities

You can also buy more engines - each engine allows you one move. Ships start with three engines, and can add two or three more.

Each player is a unique personality, determined at the start of the game in reverse start order. My favorite is Lucky Lou, who gets an extra Trader's Luck card. Others include The Navigator, who can make jumps easier, The Engineer, who can buy engines more cheaply and easily, The Hero, who gets more prestige when making a delivery, and so on.

(See below for additional personalities not included in the game, and some variations on the existing personalities.)

Your Goal

The object of the game is to become the sole Imperial Trader - but to do that, you need both money and prestige. Delivering cargo is the primary way to get both, but there are other ways. Trader's Luck cards can help you get both, for example, and allow you to hinder an opponent from getting either.

Once you think you're ready to petition the emperor to become Imperial Trader, you pay a bribe and roll on a table, cross-referencing your die result with your prestige level and how much bribe you paid. If you're lucky, you're then awarded an Imperial Contract: the first to finish their Imperial Contract wins the game. So once someone is granted an Imperial Contract, everyone else tries if they have even the minimum bribe and prestige.

Summary

All in all, a very fun game, one that I pull out every couple of months without fail. True, it's not something I play every week, but how many games from my 450+ game collection do I pull out six to eight times each year, even after many years? Not as many as I'd like - but this is one of the few that I actually do. It's sadly out of print, but with a little searching you can probably find a copy.

Bonus: Extra Personalities

Here are some extra personalities to liven up your game of Isaac Asimov's Star Traders. These don't need to be on official card stock, since they are never dealt or hidden, anyway. If you have any suggestions to add to the list, please post them.

Warpin' Wanda (or Warpin' Wally) When you make a random jump, roll three dice, pick your favorite two, and you get to arrange the two dice in any order you wish. So if you roll a 2,2,5, for example, you could go to system 22, system 25 or system 52. In addition, your turn does not necessarily end with a random jump: if you have any moves left, you may continue moving. But you may only make one random jump per turn.

Long-shot Lola (or Long-shot Lloyd) You specialize in long jumps. Treat Green Line jumps (6/3) as if they were Purple lines (4) for all purposes. This means you don't have to roll at all if you have permission to use a station at the other end of any jump.

The Fast-Talker Ever wish you could sell a worthless cargo instead of just dumping it? Well, the Fast-Talker can. If you are in a race to deliver a cargo, and you don't finish first, you can still sell your cargo for 1/2 value (round down), at the system listed on the card OR at the system with the inverse of the two-digit system code. (E.g.: if you are to deliver a cargo to 15, Jaxin, you could also get 1/2 value for it at 51, Wells. If you have a cargo for 55, Jeeves, however, only Jeeves will do for this purpose.) You get no prestige for this, but at least the trip wasn't wasted. Note that you cannot sell the cargo at the inverse-numbered system until the race is over.

Mr. (or Ms.) Impervious You avoid calamities far easier than other traders. At any time a Calamity card is played on you, you may turn in any Trader's Luck card as an Avoid Calamity card. However, you may only do this six times per game. (Either keep a spare die beside you, with the number of uses left on the top side, or start with a stack of six pennies, turning them in as you use your special ability.) Using regular Avoid Calamity cards does not count against the six uses of your special ability.

The Jinx When you end your turn in the same system as another trader (or when another trader ends his turn in the same system as you), something bad happens to him (the other trader, not the Jinx). Roll a single die and consult the following table:

1. Engine trouble: two fewer jumps than normal next turn.

2. If he has a still-active cargo, he loses it. (He does not lose a cargo if the race for that cargo is over, however - the Jinx causes only bad luck, never good!) If he has two cargoes, the Jinx chooses which one he loses. If he has no cargo, nothing bad happens to him, sorry.

3. He loses his special ability (as detailed on his personality card) for 1d6 turns. (Yes, this means The Insider could lose his station on Capital during this time if someone played the right card!)

4. He has committed a public faux pas: lose 5 prestige.

5. He is assessed a fine: he must pay 10 Stellor (he loses a turn if he can't or won't pay).

6. He loses his next turn, probably through some sordid action you don't want to know about.

Variations for the Existing Characters

Sometime in 1995 or so, I received permission from Mark J. Reed to post the following:

Mark wrote: “It's been our experience that the Navigator, Engineer, and Lucky Lou are much more powerful than any of the other four,”

(sos agrees)

“so we made some minor changes to try and balance things out:

* Psychic - in addition to lookahead on contracts, may roll the die before deciding which jump line to take

* Insider - gets an extra +1 on imperial petition rolls

* Negotiator - instead of an extra two stellors for delivering a cargo, he gets an extra 50% (basically just add the station bonus). Still gets only one extra when receiving the station bonus for someone else's delivery.

* Hero - double prestige on all contracts, except #1, for which he gets a net triple (instead of quadruple).

“We have an additional house rule - in the Basic Game, the Superjump card may not be played by anyone who has their Imperial Contract.

“The rules were jointly developed by the Buford Highway Star Traders: Mark J. Reed, Keith Graham, Chris Jones, Eddie Maise."

-(Article originally published 1994 or 1995 - not sure)

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moxtaveto — 2006-09-21T06:30:07+00:00

German edition

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Mosse — 2006-06-06T14:54:00+00:00

Thread: Variant rule: Hyperjump DENIAL

riddle13 — 2004-04-18T22:16:20+00:00

the printed rules say that if you attempt to jump to a station that another player controls, you HAVE to ask that player for permission. if that person says "ok" you make the jump without having to roll; but if they say "no" you have to roll as usual, the same roll they would have to make if nobody controlled the station. thus, control of the station only lets you HELP other players (by making their jump easier) but doesn't let you hinder them.
this seemed pointless so we added the rule that if the player said "no" you have to make the roll at -1. i guarantee you it's more fun this way.
it makes the big 6/3 jumps impossible if a player controls the station you're trying to jump to and says "no." which means you have to go around, or beg, or pay. which is as it should be!

Thread: Re: jumps to controlled stations

riddle13 — 2004-04-18T21:58:14+00:00

you said: Why should it be harder than if you had not asked?

???
because... you HAVE to ask when attempting to jump to a station that another player controls. the printed rules say that if that person says "ok" you make the jump without having to roll; but if they say "no" you have to roll as usual, the same roll they would have to make if nobody controlled the station. thus, control of the station only lets you HELP other players (by making their jump easier) but doesn't let you hinder them. this seemed pointless so we added the rule that if the player said "no" you have to make the roll at -1. i guarantee you it's more fun this way.

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Ghaerdon — 2004-01-13T23:27:37+00:00

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Ghaerdon — 2004-01-13T23:27:37+00:00

Thread: Re:General Comment

Gene Wirchenko — 2003-11-12T05:47:56+00:00

riddle wrote:
this game is way less cheesy than Jackson's Illuminati and simpler to play, while more interesting .
one rule variant that i've found natural and necessary is that when making a jump to a station where you have been DENIED permission by that station's owner, you add -1 to the die roll, to reflect that denial and make it a little bit harder to make the jump.
also, i recommend leaving the Navigator personality card out of the game. his +1 to every jump makes him a little too fast.

Why should it be harder than if you had not asked? To reflect the risk, I played with a house rule of safe jumps. A safe jump meant that the player could not play a nasty card immediately after that jump. Often, safe jumps were exchanged. Safe jumps could be saved. If you owed someone a safe jump, you could not say no to his making a safe jump to one of your stations. It was not necessary to not owe anyone in order to win (or the game could be indefinite).

For the navigator, the house rule was that he had to roll all of his jumps. This meant that the sure-thing jumps had a possibility of failing.

Thread: Re:User Review

tool — 2003-09-17T21:37:44+00:00

Imperial Mission, bah. The Basic Game is too luck-dependent (in the endgame). The Advanced Game, where you need to build a chain of Imperial Stations, is longer but considerably better.

Thread: Re:User Review

shadowkeeper — 2003-09-17T13:34:33+00:00

I am not a geek. Well okay, maybe. But it's not because I love "Star Traders", despite the fact that it looks like the board game equivalent of a Star Trek Convention. It's a tough game to get my friends to play, because it seems so darned nerdy: with a plethora of counters, truckloads of science-fiction theme and cheesy jargon like "Stellors' for money and "Hyperspace jumps" for moves, prospective players are usually terrified that they'll soon be rolling a thirty-sided die to see if their Druid successfully dodges a Hammer of Throwing +4.

If you can get past the surface, though, you find a simplified train game, albeit with the requisite heaps of theme and humor that you would expect in any Steve Jackson game. Each player assumes the role of a intragalactic merchant, traveling from planet to planet in a future where wars are unheard of and "Traders" are the heroes of the cosmos. The board shows 36 planets: six clustered together in the center of the board, six more in each of five arms of the galaxy. Planets are connected by "jump lines": you can jump to an adjacent planet on an orange line, to a planet halfway down a galaxy arm on a purple line, and from one galaxy arm to another via green lines. The length of the jump line also indicates the difficulty of the jump, so to successfully complete an "orange' jump you must roll a 2 or better on a single die, a purple jump requires a 4 or better, and the green jumps necessitate a 6.

As the player scurry about the galaxy, they can pick up and deliver cargos, which pay off both in money and in "Prestige". These "contacts" vary throughout the game, and only one player can fulfill any given contract. This isn't to say that multiple players can't pick up the named cargo, though. But only the first player to arrive at the contract's destination gets the payoff for a contract; everyone else with the cargo is now just stuck with unwanted junk, and may have to pay a penalty to dump it. Players can also build bases on the various planets as they move around. Building bases earn the players Prestige, and when a player tries to make a jump to a planet with a base the jump is an automatic success if the player has the owner's permission. Traders obviously have permission to jump to their own bases, but if they want to jump to an opponent's they will probably have to pay a fee. And since only one player can have a base on any given planet, bases rapidly become lucrative investments.

This already makes for a neat little game, but Star Traders also contains requisite "Steve Jackson" twists. One is the set of "Trader Luck" cards. These cards may be played at anytime to give a player an edge (a few bonus Prestige points, a free reroll) or to bring woe down on the heads of opponents (taking over bases, stealing cargos, and sending them off on useless missions). The effects of these cards are usually humorous ("You used the wrong fork at the Duchess of Drachir's free-fall banquet! Lose 2 Prestige." In addition, each player has a unique skill. "The Navigator", for example, adds one to all his jump rolls, "Lucky Lou' holds more Trader Luck cards than anyone else and "The Hero" gets a bonus Prestige point form each cargo delivered.

Despite all this flavor, the game is actually quite simple to play. It's one of those jobbies where you can pretty much set up the board and start playing, explaining the rules as you go. Players really only need know the essentials during the opening act, and will have gleaned some of the subtleties by the time you reach the distinct middle- and end-game. Initially players will just shuttle around the galaxy, building bases and delivering a cargo now and again. As more and more bases get built, though, diplomacy begins to play a larger and larger role. Now almost any planet you wish to jump to will have a base on it, and you may need to bribe, incur debt or call in favors if you wish to jump there without rolling. Since several players will often be racing to the same destination with the same cargo, your bribe might be countered by other folks who wish to block your passage.

When a player has accumulated sufficient Prestige, he may petition the Emperor for an Imperial Mission. If successful, he takes the top contract card, and if he makes the specified delivery he is named the "Imperial Trader", thereby winning the game. The last fourth of Star Traders is usually occupied with this goal, as the players in the lead struggle to fulfill their final missions and the laggards throw up as many roadblocks as possible in the hopes of catching up. It's not unusual for the majority of the players to have their Imperial Mission by the game's conclusion, which makes for a tense and unpredictable finish.

Although I love the central mechanic of train games, I dislike the fact that most games play out like multiplayer solitaire. Star Traders takes the pick-up-and-deliver premise and mixes in enough opportunity for negotiation to keep player interaction high. Plus, there is very little down time between turns, and every dice-roll is cause for gut-wrenching all-around. 18xx fans are likely to dismiss Star Traders as just a dumbed down variant, but I find the simplification is more than compensated by the increased sense of excitement. And having an ultimate object beyond just accumulating x amount of money gives the game a vastly increased sense of closure.

Star Traders makes little attempt to be balanced, luck plays as important a role as skill, it takes over 90 minutes to play, the game doesn't take itself very seriously, and it's clear that the mechanics took a backseat to the theme in the design. If this was a German game, each of these would count as a strike against it. But when combined in a Steve Jackson offering, it just makes for the quintessential "American" game. And while I'm as big a fan of German gaming as the next guy, a round of Star Traders now again reminds me that when the object is Just Plain Fun, we Yanks can do it as well as anyone.

Thread: General Comment

BoardGameGeek — 2002-01-01T06:00:00+00:00

this game is way less cheesy than Jackson's Illuminati and simpler to play, while more interesting .
one rule variant that i've found natural and necessary is that when making a jump to a station where you have been DENIED permission by that station's owner, you add -1 to the die roll, to reflect that denial and make it a little bit harder to make the jump.
also, i recommend leaving the Navigator personality card out of the game. his +1 to every jump makes him a little too fast.

Thread: Session Report

PBrennan — 2001-01-01T06:00:00+00:00

Craig, Nick, Andrew, Rick and I cracked open Star Traders, a 1987 game by David Ladyman and produced by Steve Jackson Games. In fact, its "Isaac Asimov's Star Traders" but after playing it, and having read most of Asimov's huge output over the years and being a fan, I wish he hadn't put his name to it.

The game centres around fulfilling cargo contracts to collect money (stellors) and prestige points. The contracts are open so races can develop to make delivery first. Once a certain level of prestige is gained, a player can petition the Emperor for an 'Imperial Contract'. The first player to fulfil their Imperial Contract wins.

After reading the rules and reading some positive reports about the game, I held good hopes.

Imagine a board with 36 planets (one for each dice combination), 1 in the middle, 5 around that in a circle and then 5 spiral arms coming out of the centre circle, each with 6 planets in a string.

4 contracts are revealed (one less than the number of players actually) and little chits are placed on the planets to indicate pick up and delivery points for each contract.

A turn then essentially consists of moving plus optionally taking an action. Each player starts with 3 engines which allow them three move attempts and you move via 'star jumps' which are just different coloured lines connecting planets. A jump to a neighbouring planet is successul on a roll of 2 or higher. Jumping 2 planets needs a 4 or higher, jumping 4 planets is a 5 or higher and moving from one spiral arm to another requires a 6.

Hmm, a lot of luck you say? Yes but there are ways around it. A player can build a station (this is an action that marks the end of a turn though). Travelling to your own station is always free. Travelling to another player's station can be negotiated (stellors speak) and if agreement is met, pay the player and travel without need to roll. If you can't agree, you can attempt to get there regardless by rolling away.

Also, there are the Trader Luck cards. You start with 2 and can never have more than 2. If you don't get the dice roll you need, you can burn a card and re-roll. Of course you can also use the Trader Luck cards as per their (usually nefarious) stated purposes that are printed on the card. Lots of Calamaties for other players (you must immediately 'envoy an Imperial passenger' to another planet, 'you're lost' so roll dice to randomly jump to another planet, pirate a cargo, steal a station) but also some good cards like an instant gain in prestige points, or zap cards which allow you to add 1 to your dice rolls, or subtract 1 from other player's rolls.

Stations tend to get built quickly for another reason. You pay 5 stellors to do it, but you gain 3 prestige points instantly - and you only need to get 15 prestige points before you're allowed to petition the Emperor to get an Imperial Contract! Mind you, each planet can only hold one station.

There are other actions as well. If you're on one of the outer planets, you can build an extra engine (max 5) which allow extra moves each turn. You can do a random jump if there are no contracts nearby (roll 2 dice to give a planet combination).

At the beginning each player assumes a personality. I was The Engineer who can build extra engines anywhere for half price. Nick was The Hero who gets an extra prestige for every contract delivered. Craig was The Insider who started in the middle and got to build 3 extra stations. Rick was The Negotiator who could add 1 to every dice roll. And Andrew was Lucky Lou who could have 3 Trader Luck cards rather than 2.

So how does the game proceed? Typically you look around the board for available contracts. If there's no contracts nearby, you can move to a planet with lots of star jumps leading off it and build a station for instant prestige and hopefully easier moving later on. Or go build an extra engine maybe while you wait for another contract to come up closeby.

If there's a contract for pickup nearby, you can head for it. Whether you want to pick it up or not is dependent on whether other players are nearby and if they're likely to pick it up and race you for it, and if so, can you win. Winning is good - stellors and prestige gained. Losing is bad - you can dump cargo anywhere but it costs prestige. Or you can decide to go to the delivery planet and deliver it regardless for no gain / no loss. But what a waste of a few turns with nothing to show for it.

There's a restriction that your ship (a cool rocket piece btw) can only hold two cargoes at a time which is great when there's a second contract nearby and its on your way.

And so to the game ... I built two extra engines early while Nick turned into Mr 6 Man and Andrew into Mr 1 Man. Calamities were falling on people left, right and centre forcing them off to the extremes of the galaxy. A series of miraculous rolls required and delivered had Nick deliver 4 contracts however before anyone else had delivered more than 1. With The Hero power delivering bonus prestige, Nick was quickly in a position to petition the Emperor, and requiring a roll of 4 or more to be successful ... got it. This all in the first half-hour.

Craig: "oh well, that's game over"
Pat, with two calamity cards in his hand destined for Nick: "this game is far from over"

How much truer can words be. Nick for the next hour tried to get his ship from one planet to another just three jumps away. One of those jumps required a 6, but Lady Fate said he'd used all his 6's up it seemed. After half an hour of non-6's (it became a point of honour you see rather than go the long, but easier way), finally the 6's came ... but each one was zapped away by another player. Calamity after calamity fell on Nick while the rest of us gradually delivered more contracts and petitioned the king to get Imperial Missions and so be in contention. It took Craig about another half hour, and me another half hour after that after two unsuccessful attempts which cost oh so dearly. And Rick got one at the end as well I think. Mr 1 Man was doomed by the dice most of the game and petitioning for Imperial Missions was no exception.

In the end, both Nick and Craig were one planet away from their destination (I was 5 away, which was theoretically achievable in one turn at least) and the winner was decided by who got to play when there were no calamity cards left in anyone's hands. Craig was the lucky recipient. One can't help but feel sorry for Nick. Even John Howard would have said sorry.

Comments after the game:
Craig: "That was the worst game I've ever played"
Rick: "I never want to play that again"
Nick: "The first half hour I'd rate it about a 6 ..."
Pat: " ... but after that it fell a notch every quarter hour"
Andrew ... strangely silent

which rates it about a 2 which is the 'extremely annoying' range.

How to summarise then. The theme is fine and quite funny in places (delivering mutant repellant and fungus to planets in need has its lighter side). And the decision making re the trade off between cargo racing or build stations / engines is fine. But ...

You expect the card / station mechanisms to overcome bad dice rolls - and they don't. Getting some bad rolls can absolutely trash a turn and lead to high frustration ... especially if you're in a race to deliver cargo where the penalty of not coming first is quite high in loss of prestige points and opportunity cost of doing something else.

Secondly, the ability to play Trader Luck cards at any time leads to the most vicious leader hitting I've ever seen. At the one hour point, people were crying out "lets let the game end" after Nick was so close so many times and couldn't get there ... and it only got worse for the next 45 minutes.

Thirdly, you get into a position good enough to get into the win-race, the Imperial Mission. If you roll less than about a 4 (there are some modifiers), you fail in your bid to get into the win-race and you lose around half your prestige points and stellors and are forced to virtually start again. I find it hard to credit that your game position in a 2 hour game can swing so wildly on one dice roll.

And hence a rating of 2.

Thread: Session Report

shadowkeeper — 2001-01-01T06:00:00+00:00

Huzzah! It's not often that I find occation to foist "Star Traders" on my friends, because it does not lend itself well to "bar play": It has lots and lots of small, cardboard pieces (which fall under the table and swell when they have refreshments spilled on them), it's longer and more complicated than most games that go best with two pitchers of beer, and it involves a fair amount of table talk, which is not always possible in noisy environs. But with exactly six people in attendence (and with Isabelle insisting "No negotiation games!", thereby ruling out Kohle, Kie$ & Knete), I got "Star Trader" on the table and set up as fast as I could.

In Star Traders, players pick up and deliver cargos to 66 planets in a quest to accululate money and "prestige". As everyone (except for me) playing was new to the game, things started out slow, but everyone got in the swing of things fairly quickly. The game is rife with funny cards that can be played on others, and it wasn't long before the backstabbing began. About a third of the way through the game, in fact, several players teamed up to bring Claire down -- she wasn't in the lead or anything, but since she wins so many games it's understood that she occationally needs to be dogpiled or she'll run away with the thing.

Also, it wasn't long before Isabelle realized that she had been hornswoggled: Star Traders contains tons of negotiation. But by the end, she was the toughest (and shrewdest) bargainer of us all, occationally offering deals that would cause people to turn to me and say "Can she do that?!" Because of this, she was the first to get an Imperial Mission (and completing the Imperial Mission wins you the game). Claire nabbed her Mission next. Most of rest of us got our Missions a while later, but the ladies had such a headstart that we were all but doomed. In the end, Claire managed to fulfil her Mission first, thereby winning the game and garnering vows from all present that we would never ever single her out for abuse again.

Ratings (out of 10): Matthew = 9; Isabelle = 9; Claire = 8; James = 8; Riley = 7; Matt = 7